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Some Concerns about Combat
admriker4
Member Posts: 1,070
http://www.stage6.com/user/AcolyteAvery/video/1953748/Age-of-Conan-Visual-FAQ-Guide
I watched the video, very cool. It wasnt very clear on combat though so I have a few questions...
1. I saw that combat rose. If I click number 1 (left) does that mean all my attacks are directed to that target's left side until I choose another direction ?
2. What if I move or if the enemy moves ? Will I miss my attacks until I choose a rose direction again ?
3. How does this rose thing work for casters ? Is it the same concept as melee ?
4. How do special moves fit into this combat ? It seemed to me that it was more about directions (rose) than actual specials. This part of the game scares me. Im having flashbacks of Star Wars Galaxies NGE version where I can only use one special at a time really and there isnt any auto-target.
5. finishing move - is this a special attack that I can do when the enemy's health is low or is it one of those combo things ?
6. combos - i didnt really see any examples of these combo moves. Are they based on clicking on the rose thing ? And how am I to click special attacks and the rose at the same time ?
I applaud the devs for attempting to give us something new. But to be honest Im comfortable with auto-targeting and using my brain to use my special attacks in the most efficient and effective means. With games like Tabula Rasa, SWG, and other fps type games the specials are pretty much worthless. This kills the game for me, especially when its a level grind and the only motivating factor to keep going is to reach a new power skill for a certain level.
Like I said, the combat video part wasnt very clear to me so maybe Im wrong and there is auto-targeting and the specials are vital to success. Any info is appreciated.
Comments
1) I believe you have to press the attack button every time you want to attack.
2) You can move while attacking, it all depends on if your victim is in your arc when the swing goes off I believe.
3) They haven't really shown caster's yet. They don't have as many options for spell combos as melee's do for melee combos last I heard.
4) The videos tend to be of lower level chars so far, and a lot of them haven't got any combos to do yet (you get them as you gain skills/levels).
5) If your combo kills an opponent I believe that's when you see the special finishing move go off and you get the benefit of doing it.
6) Again, I believe most of the combat is with chars too low level to do much in the way of combos.
1. The combat rose is for those people who wish to use the mouse as a means to activate the attacks. I think you can click the desired direction you wish to attack as opposed to hitting Q,1,2,3,E. There is no auto attack in AoC. If you just stand there within reach of your enemy your character will do nothing until you actively hit one of the directions of attack. Your character will only do something when you tell him to and you'll have to repeat this over and over for your character to keep attacking. I believe this is a way to make the combat more intuitive instead of mathematical and overly scientific.
2. Majority of your attacks will hit in a cone in front of you. I believe there are a few melee classes that will have greater Area of Attack abilities but most will be in a cone in front of you. As long as your enemy remains in the cone you can move and still hit. Once again, if you hit 1 to attack the left side you will swing ONCE. If you want to hit that side again you will have to hit 1 again. Perhaps you won't want to hit that side and instead want to hit the right side, in that case you will hit 3. There is no auto attack where your character sits there and just flails away doing base damage.
3. Not much info has been released on the casters and how their stuff will work. I guess we will just have to wait a bit longer for them to start releasing that information. I have heard that a majority of their attacks will also be some sort of Area of Attack or cone area.
4. I think the special moves are a result of a properly executed combos all the way to the end. As I understand it, you activate a desired combo and then start doing the necessary directional attacks that complete the combo. For instance lets say the combo requires you to hit the guy twice in the head, once in the left side and thrice in the right side or whatever variation the devs can think of and you'd have to do said moves in the proper order to do some fancy high damage stuff. At any time I think your opponent can move out of your attack area or just plain run the hell away and disrupt your comb.
5. As stated in my #4 reply, you get them at a successful completion of a combo.
6. The people in the videos are low level and don't have access to them yet. I figure it's one of the reasons why you'd want to level. It gives you a reason to play and reach for something.
I like the fact that they're making the game a bit more intuitive. It's no longer about the numbers and making sure all your items line up in a way that it will grant you 7.3 x Pi to the power of 19 evasion.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Yeesh,
No offense but that sounds awful. I dont care for buttons-smashing type games at all. In fact I despise them.
Can I just be a crafter like in SWG if I prefer ?
nope
That being said, if you're not looking to fight people constantly, than Conan really isn't your IP. Warhammer really won't do it for you either. I'd look at Fallen Earth.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
Aoc had a great idea with alot of new mmo concepts about the evolution to mmo's but tryin them all in one game will make it fail....aoc will tank soon as war comes out (if aoc comes out first)
Performance and/or combat mechanics could easily sink this game, because both are core to gameplay.
Having no autoattack is kinda lame I think. How many clicks might it take to take down one enemy of similar level and average AC. Multiply that out by the hundreds of thousands to get to max level, or into the millions after you have been playing for a year or two and then you have a recipe for carpal tunnel syndrome or some other repetitive type injury.
Sure, fps and clickfests are great fun when you are young. But the 30 to 40 y/o mmo crowd is huge. We have already invested years of clicking into other games. And actually, the repetitive clickfest of fps is what got me into mmo's. Ofcourse, I only speak for myself and not the others in that 30 to 40 y/o bracket, but I think there are quite a few people that fit into this category.
That being said, if you're not looking to fight people constantly, than Conan really isn't your IP. Warhammer really won't do it for you either. I'd look at Fallen Earth.
I did follow Fallen Earth for a while as Im a huge Fallout series fan and the game seems similiar.
However Fallen Earth is a FPS, that killed it pretty much for me. Still Im sorta following it in the hopes that I can be a crafter of some type without having to get involved with combat.
Im in the same boat my friend. My days of clicking/clicking/clicking died around Galaga and Half-life 1 years ago.
I love the lore of Conan having grown up on the comics. So Im hoping that the combat changes or they make crafting a real class that I can do full-time.
From what Ive read, the combat has already been changed once radically so its possible they rethink it. Dont get me wrong, I think some of the combat features are quite brilliant and I applaud them for it. The finishing moves and the idea of targeting other parts of the body is fantastic. But I see no reason why there cant be an auto-target and auto-attack to augment the combat
That being said, if you're not looking to fight people constantly, than Conan really isn't your IP. Warhammer really won't do it for you either. I'd look at Fallen Earth.
I did follow Fallen Earth for a while as Im a huge Fallout series fan and the game seems similiar.
However Fallen Earth is a FPS, that killed it pretty much for me. Still Im sorta following it in the hopes that I can be a crafter of some type without having to get involved with combat.
For the record, you don't have to fight people constantly in AoC. If you go to a PvP or RPPvP server, then yes, you will. If you stick to a PvE server, you only fight other people in the Border Kingdoms, in the Arenas and in drunken bar fights (if you can't make it to the door.)You can craft, but your craft tier access is tied in with your PvE level. Yes, at current it takes level 40 before you can craft, however, they are seriously looking at moving this to level 20 for retail launch. As they really don't mean for you to leave Tortage until 20 anyway, that would make sense.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I'm also a bit concerned about the combat system. While unique it is seeming like it might be rather devoid of any strategy...
So far what I've seen is you fight by being positioned near the enemy. Then you hit ~ I think it was to go into combat mode. Then you hit number keys like 1-3 or maybe it was 5. Basically you hit the side without the shield. Now I'm understanding there are combos that might mix this up some so you have to hit like 1-3-2 and it does some special bonus damage?
Ok so here are my concerns, it sounds like the UI is going to be kinda cumbersome. If position is important esp in pvp then I am going to need to be moving a lot while I'm fighting. This means that using wasd to move and mouselook won't leave any room for me to also be hitting 1,2,3. So combat is going to be a coordination exercise? Or maybe I'm supposed to use the mouse to attack which means that I'll be watching the rose quite a bit which means I'll really be focused on the UI and not the fight... Or perhaps the combat system is really designed around a game console gamepad which is kinda odd since it is coming out for a PC first??
Another thing, where are the skills and abilities you see in most other game? Do I also have these types of abilities, you know kicks, bleed attacks, snares, taunt, etc? Do I put these on buttons 4-0? Or do I need to click these with the mouse in addition to all the other dancing I'm doing on the keyboard? And If I'm doing the 1,2,3 thing constantly won't it be a challenge to also do the rest of the buttons at the same time to do special attacks if in fact there are any?
Seems to me like other then the rose thing there isn't really a lot of info on the combat system or have I missed out on it with all the hype focused on the rose?
---
Ethion
This is my concern as well.
Combat systems like this one require either a 3rd hand or a gamepad. How the heck am I supposed to click specials, the rose thingie for direction of my attacks, AND keep moving into position of the enemy ?
This leads me to believe there are no snares, bleeds, stopping shots, knockdown, etc type specials or if they exist they dont matter much. It has been my experience in these recent quasi FPS type games that specials are window dressing and dont matter much...see Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, Auto Assault, and others.
The more I read and think about this combat system, the more I dislike it. FPS genre doesnt belong in MMO's. It makes armor and weapon stats obsolete. It wont matter if my weapon is a legendary sword that I busted my rear to get if I cant keep a mob in range bleh. Reflexes, a steady hand, etc will win out over better gear and thats just silly. It defeats the whole point of an MMO. Might as well go the Halo route and make all gear the same and rely on the player's reflexes.
Perhaps the combat system is designed to work best on a console. And considering the type of gamer that plays on consoles, this fps might appeal to them. But not me honestly. I play MMO's to see my avatar get powerful from my time and effort. If I want to lose to someone who has better hand-eye cooridination Ill play Halo
This is my concern as well.
Combat systems like this one require either a 3rd hand or a gamepad. How the heck am I supposed to click specials, the rose thingie for direction of my attacks, AND keep moving into position of the enemy ?
This leads me to believe there are no snares, bleeds, stopping shots, knockdown, etc type specials or if they exist they dont matter much. It has been my experience in these recent quasi FPS type games that specials are window dressing and dont matter much...see Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, Auto Assault, and others.
The more I read and think about this combat system, the more I dislike it. FPS genre doesnt belong in MMO's. It makes armor and weapon stats obsolete. It wont matter if my weapon is a legendary sword that I busted my rear to get if I cant keep a mob in range bleh. Reflexes, a steady hand, etc will win out over better gear and thats just silly. It defeats the whole point of an MMO. Might as well go the Halo route and make all gear the same and rely on the player's reflexes.
Perhaps the combat system is designed to work best on a console. And considering the type of gamer that plays on consoles, this fps might appeal to them. But not me honestly. I play MMO's to see my avatar get powerful from my time and effort. If I want to lose to someone who has better hand-eye cooridination Ill play Halo
I realize you may not have time in your schedule to look at other AoC fansites, videos or interviews, and that you may be limited to just checking this site, but the devs have confirmed that there are snares, dots, knockdowns etc in game. The non-nda breaking info/videos are out there, you just have to spend some time looking.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Well, the combat has the potential to keep people entertained as much as drive them away.
Keyboard mashing? You've been doing it in all games you've been playing so far. They just call them 'specials'.
We've reached a point where certain gameplay elements are considered the "norm". It doesn't necessary mean that they represent the best solution given the game and content. However it seem that people, despite of what they may say, don't want to stray off the norm. They don't want innovation, in fact they hate it with passion. They also despise the developers who attempt to break the norm.
Well, unfortunately, in order to find something better than the current norm, one needs to make experiments. Some (most) will be unsuccessful. If we only bash them for making the unsuccessful attempts, forgetting that they actually attempted them, we lose. Don't expect innovation, don't expect breaking from the norm if people are so harsh with experimentation.
Here is a game that attempts to diversify a bit towards combat. What do people do?
Im in the same boat my friend. My days of clicking/clicking/clicking died around Galaga and Half-life 1 years ago.
I love the lore of Conan having grown up on the comics. So Im hoping that the combat changes or they make crafting a real class that I can do full-time.
From what Ive read, the combat has already been changed once radically so its possible they rethink it. Dont get me wrong, I think some of the combat features are quite brilliant and I applaud them for it. The finishing moves and the idea of targeting other parts of the body is fantastic. But I see no reason why there cant be an auto-target and auto-attack to augment the combat
maybe they will make a.... NGE :-p
It's really simple to get a "auto"-attack working with a Logitech G15 keyboard, so if you think you really need more laid back game play, just get one of those.
Problem solved.
The logitech G-15 is more expensive than the game itself man....... Gonna suck pretty hard if people find ways to macro combos also
Well, you can macro keyboard commands without a G15 as well but it has the extra keys for added comfort - besides doing combos manually will usually give you an edge anyhow, then again it is good if you raid a lot - but really who knows how these things will really play out?
You can macro in Dead or Alive too, but you need actual tactics and adapt to enemy tactics if you wish to win.
And what does this have to be with the question of the op and what is discussed here..? I love this: "aoc will tank soon as war comes out" Really funny to see how some "people" try to bash or compare this two games in every post... ey! if you dont like it just, dont follow it, dont bash it... ignore it... I really cant understand why... this fan attitude when the best for all is there are better games and fight for us to play them, not we fighting to demostrate which is the best game... and none is released!!! crazy crazy crazy...
I wish I´ve read this thread before I opened the other...
My concerns are very like some concerns of people around here.
I am not a very skilled (on joystick thing) on FPS, I´d prefer more strategic gaming (I am 34, that would explain it, perhaps I am losing it). And I have hide from FPS games on the MMO world, where you have a immersive world, PvP and you dont need to be a CS freak, jumping, to win a game. You just need to be smart and strategic, picking your skills, letting your char the way you want, and, of course, sticking to a strategy and using some skills.
Very worried about this wave of FPS around MMOs...
I'm not terribly keen on this game, but the combat system looks better than it did a few months ago..
D.
Considering you needed lot of twitch in WoW it's the norm today - unless you are more into PvE. Non-melee classes probably require less twitch if you are worried about that pick a class that melees less.
I am 31 years my self and do a quite nice job in CoD4 so wouldn't worry about getting slow yet and got older friends still pwning those 15 year olds, tactics still go a long way.
After playing a raiding hunter in WOW for 3 years (without retarded auto macros attacks), i cant see any game ever having the same neccesary attention span to max out dps like in that game. When you have to judge your attacks by the sound of your arrow wizzing by so you can be ready for the next skill in your chain in under 1/2 second all the while worrying about positioning, letting your auto attack cycle without interruption from you specials and managing your pet, AOC combat system looks like cake.
(Anyone who says playing a hunter is easy, YOU NEVER RAIDED and YOU CERTAINLY NEVER TOPPED DPS charts.) - Sorry off topic
Anyway im excited for the immersive combat system.
Lick Here you could be one of the lucky 10!!!
I don't think the combat will be a rapid fire type of deal as so many people are worried about. Correct me if I'm wrong but I noticed a slight delay between the hits in at least one of the movies out there released by FunCom. I'm thinking there will be time to hit the desired attack direction and then keep in step with your moving enemy just to keep them in the attack cone for that 1 second or so.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
It's easy to play as a hunter, so easy I stopped playing on mine. I've played all classes and 5 of them at 60. I have raided, raided a lot. Topped the damage meters, not all the times ofc.
oo, looks like your statement is false