(Anyone who says playing a hunter is easy, YOU NEVER RAIDED and YOU CERTAINLY NEVER TOPPED DPS charts.) - Sorry off topic
It's easy to play as a hunter, so easy I stopped playing on mine. I've played all classes and 5 of them at 60. I have raided, raided a lot. Topped the damage meters, not all the times ofc.
oo, looks like your statement is false
60 hunters and 70 hunters have a big fat zero in common, raid wise. Sorry, he's right, you're wrong, hunter is the hardest DPS class to use correctly in a Raid. Hmm, maybe Warlock is harder. Well, its in the top 2 in any case.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
I didnt know thats how the combat system worked, you have to click every attack? old people arent going to want to do that. That doesnt make much sense though.. didnt funcom think of that? young people will click but oh wait... they cant play because its 18+
I didnt know thats how the combat system worked, you have to click every attack? old people arent going to want to do that. That doesnt make much sense though.. didnt funcom think of that? young people will click but oh wait... they cant play because its 18+
Other MMO's you still need to click. With the hotkeys there are even more buttons to have to press. Also even if you don't use the hotkeys, you still need to use the mouse to click on all of those spell icons. I don't think it will be a HUGE problem.
I must say these combat video kinda dampened my interest in AoC greatly. It reminds me SO of the NGE combat from SWG. Aim and turn. If SOE didnt understand one big thing back then with the NGE combat it was people coming from a CRPG background didnt want to AIM, take cover and target. Its just the nature of the beast MMORPGs. There is a minority who likes this, and a special interest group playing online shooters like Planetside, and thats it. The rest, as I see it, has little to zero interest to go into the hassle of aim and miss. Its only a video ok, but if I understood it right and the stick to this, it may become a big desaster.
Using number to aim, WASD to walk and mouse to look AND numbers for special moves sounds like the right combat system for an octupus!
I am totally honest here. The classic EQ/WOW/DAOC/UO whatever MMO system of using skills to more or less stationary mobs in front of me is just so much as I can handle. Whenever possible I turn on auto-turn and auto-attack. Maybe its because I am no longer 18 a long while now, and I get old, or I never was that nimble I dunno. I bet quite a lot that many are rather unwilling to go into a clickfest as that sounds.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I must say these combat video kinda dampened my interest in AoC greatly. It reminds me SO of the NGE combat from SWG. Aim and turn. If SOE didnt understand one big thing back then with the NGE combat it was people coming from a CRPG background didnt want to AIM, take cover and target. Its just the nature of the beast MMORPGs. There is a minority who likes this, and a special interest group playing online shooters like Planetside, and thats it. The rest, as I see it, has little to zero interest to go into the hassle of aim and miss. Its only a video ok, but if I understood it right and the stick to this, it may become a big desaster. Using number to aim, WASD to walk and mouse to look AND numbers for special moves sounds like the right combat system for an octupus! I am totally honest here. The classic EQ/WOW/DAOC/UO whatever MMO system of using skills to more or less stationary mobs in front of me is just so much as I can handle. Whenever possible I turn on auto-turn and auto-attack. Maybe its because I am no longer 18 a long while now, and I get old, or I never was that nimble I dunno. I bet quite a lot that many are rather unwilling to go into a clickfest as that sounds.
exactly my concerns which is why I posted this subject.
Combat like AoC is proposing requires a 3rd hand or as my son says, a gamepad. And that my friends is why I think the combat is made the way it is...its best suited and designed for the console and its controller.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, consoles have no business existing in the MMO world unless the developers force them button smashers to hook up a keyboard and mouse. Consoles have USB ports, although Ive never seen a keyboard or mouse for sale for my son's xbox360
So in my opinion what we're getting with AoC is a combat system designed to work best for a console's gamepad. This quasi-fps doesnt belong in MMO's. It negates stats on armor and weapons because it ultimately comes down to whoever has the best reflexes (and a 3rd thumb). These combat systems never work, see the other games using no auto-target / no auto-attack systems. Theyre all small candy in the MMO industry rarely doing more than 50k players.
I didnt know thats how the combat system worked, you have to click every attack? old people arent going to want to do that. That doesnt make much sense though.. didnt funcom think of that? young people will click but oh wait... they cant play because its 18+
Other MMO's you still need to click. With the hotkeys there are even more buttons to have to press. Also even if you don't use the hotkeys, you still need to use the mouse to click on all of those spell icons. I don't think it will be a HUGE problem.
We will see... More then anything however this might be a deal breaker for this game. I really like having to do a bit of thinking in games rather then mindlessly clicking of turning the game into a dexterity challenge which ultimately just becomes frustrating and boring.
So far I don't see anything that entirely unique other then the directional attacks in AoC, you have no autoattack and the fact that every attack is an AE attack which I'm wondering how will impact things like mez abilities. Seems to me this could create an imbalance by making mez type abilities ineffective.
It will be nice when open beta starts and we can get some real feedback on this system. I like most everything I've read about AoC and I'm pretty excited about the game but I'm not going to preorder this time. Probably a good thing the last few games I've preordered have had problems at launch, I think I'm hexing them by preordering
I'm thinking that you'll be able to rebind your direction attacks to whatever you like. Personally this is what I'm gonna do:
I have a mouse with 2 thumb buttons so what I plan to do is bind the mouse wheel up, down and click to my main 3 attacks and the 2 shoulder buttons to the other 2 that melee characters supposedly get when they get to higher level. This way, I can hold down right click to spin my character around and look in various directions, move around with the WASD buttons and still select my attacks as I see fit with the other fingers on the mouse that don't usually do much of anything. All the other combo starters can more then likely be bound to any of the other buttons located around the WASD such as Q or E or perhaps even F. And since I don't plan on using my 1,2,3 keys for directional attacks I can then map them to some of the special abilities.
In regards to mezz abilities, I have not really heard much on this subject. Maybe I've not been reading enough about other people's abilities but I am really not worried. People are usually smart enough and inventive enough to make it work for them. To use WoW for a comparison (and for lack of a better thing to compare it to) I have spoken to some of the people about their setups and they have found a ton of ways to bind thins to random keys. There is the whole option of holding down shift+button and they've even done this for mouse wheel as well. I doubt that the Q,E,1,2,3 controlls are carved in stone and so rigidly enforced that you won't be able to customize any of it. I would think that customization would be one of the things FunCom would provide the most no matter what it partains to.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Munkyman1
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
Combat is awesome, honestly. Merging two classes has no resemblence on how you fight does it
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
Combat is awesome, honestly. Merging two classes has no resemblence on how you fight does it
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Like Avery, I welcome the no auto-attack. Why can't FunCom try something else. I applaud them for sticking to this.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Like Avery, I welcome the no auto-attack. Why can't FunCom try something else. I applaud them for sticking to this.
I guess Im just a little surprised by their decision. Game features should appeal to the product's target market. I assumed Funcom was targeting me..
adult prolly 25-42, veteran of rpg's and MMO's in general, conan comic book fan. Oh and yes classic rpg combat.
Dont get me wrong, there is a ton of room for improvement on the wowish classic rpg combat systems. And I applaud Funcom for their attempt. And I love the finishing move animations. But it makes no sense to me that they cant put in auto-targeting and auto-attack into the current system.
Its apparent based on the controls that a gamepad is better suited for the combat. And since the game is heading for the console, it might be thats where the marketing suits decided to try and impress. FPS style combat appeals to the 15-24 console crowd, not to my generation (see the many concerned posts here who agree with me)
I think its a mistake to design a combat system that wont appeal to the conan fans out there who also happen to be rpg combat style fans. The fps MMO market is niche at best and none of those games are even marginal hits.
Its a shame to see this game heading for the cliff of failure. It has so mch potential. Great music and sound effects, great pvp siege stuff, city building, nice graphics, etc but the combat will make or break any game. Using a niche unpopular system ??? What were they thinking seriously ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ?
Wonder how many spells there will be.. as much as a gamepad can handle?
In WOW with my priest I have about 40 spells available. Truth around 10 are the most used, and 5 used over and over again, but it's great having so many possibilities, even a spell that you use once in a while can be very important to your group or to you at some point, and make the difference.
With regards to the "having to do too much at once/need 3rd hand" situation - i dont think that it will be anywhere near as demanding as most fear. Your hands probably do more than you realise in games you are currently playing/have played. In GW, my set up is as follows;
Skills 1-8 : 1, 2, 3, Lshift, x, f, r, v
Weapon Sets 1-4: g, mouse 5, mouse 4, caps
Nearest Foe: C
Next Foe: Tab
Nearest Item: T
Show Allies: Alt
Show Foes: Ctrl
Auto Run: 4
Cancel Action: ` (Weird little symbol button to left of #1 key)
Supress Action (melee only): Mouse 5
Keyboard Movement: WADQE
Thats at least 24 buttons, which are frequently used in battle, all of them. Atop of that, always watching Party Bar, always watching radar, always watching every foe nearby and at distance for mistakes/openings/weaknesses/strengths, need uber-reflexes on some professions, watching own health/energy levels, upholding maticulous positioning on the field, mouse-clicking foes and allies, clicking-to-move, amongst other things - and that is just the physical side of the game. Of course the majority of most games is played out on the heads of the players, not the fingers, and in GW maybe more than most.
My point is, the AoC mechanics will most definitely take some getting used to, but get used to it everyone will. I'm sure there are games more complicated, finger-dancing-wise, than GW, which thousands play happily. There are plenty of oldies playing GW very well, and all games. Infact, the calm-heads of elder players will probably do more good on a hectic battle-field than the twitch-fingers of the ragamuffin youth.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by admriker4
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Originally posted by Munkyman1
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
Combat is awesome, honestly. Merging two classes has no resemblence on how you fight does it
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Hi Mr. Riker (btw did you ever play Star Trek Armarda 1)
Actually whats so awesome is that a gamepad can be used to play the game as well. Whats even more surprising for me it looks like it doesnt offer any benefit apart from personal preferance in choice - thats all. Just the above poster says 24 linked key for him in GW.
If you have ever played Guild Wars? its similar in control with the mouse, except you dont have to cntrl+C to autotarget then press your hotbar keys.
In AoC you can run by pressing both mouse buttons, you can let go on the right one and use the left one to view around you character like to see behind you. If you do the opposite you swivel your character around. So if your right handed you use your right hand for the mouse, and with the left hand you do you directions :
Q,1,2,3,E (Q and E directions come later in the game (part of the original redesign from beta feedback in the summer last year) ) you can also use your left hand to do your combo's :-
To activate a combo you can press the key for it say 4-9 (1,2,3 are your directions), then the combat rose highlights a yellow marker for few seconds, you have to either click the yellow marker or press your direction (Q,1,2,3,E) (so you have a choice), when you either click or press your corresponding direction the next direction lights up guiding you to press or click the next one and so on till you have performed your combo. eg combo rose highlights set order in sequence at a normal speed, like 1,3,1 so you have to press those buttons or click on combat rose to do those directions - default = left swing, right swing, left swing and that = your 'combo' and give extra damage for doing so.
If you know the correct order you can just do you (q,1,2,3,e) directions (or whatever keys you have mapped) and pull it off if you know it. (no initial click or button press for related combo on hotbar)
So you actually have to do it, step by step and its not 1 button click combo = done. And mashing doesnt help either - of course you can just swing your directions anytime but you wont do the extra damage from a combo, nor currently perform a fatality (if you do a combo and it kills someone it increases your chance of a fatality I was told in Oslo)
Combo's start with different directions, so say you might have hotbar selections 4-6 and left leaders and 7+8 as overhead and 9 as right leaders so your ever changing depending on your opponents shields (dynamic)
Later in the game the U.I changes on the hotbar allowing you to add in Q and E in a different way (lvl 40 right now)
With rangers they have said you can "Tab" to soft lock the nearest opponent, for help as just directing your characters body to face the foe and fire was a bit difficult.
You can press TAB in game (current default) and it will target nearest foe - remember no auto attack - so its just for visual guidance and also so you can see their health etc.
On the hotbar too on the left side of the combat rose you can current put 'potions' and 'food' there so you have to click on them to use, the only mappable buttons from the hotbar are the combo slots and the directional slots (1,2,3) so you combo's start from 4 to say 9.
W,A,S,D are default movement too so if you dont like to use your mouse for that. Also arrow keys work like this.
Double tapping these will make your character jump in that direction (well more of either a defensive or offensive hop) remember you have to face your target to get in a) swing of weapon arc b) for rangers in their sights or C) for spells in the cone shape area. So double tap movement is usefull.
Z and C are also strafe left and right (default settings)
I = inventory
H= Hide (Stealth) - all classes can do - Rogues better - again you train this / put points in per level (just one area among a few , some classes have different area's / class specifics)
F keys can be mapped too
= toggle between combat mode = weapon sheath (yes there are sheaths in game for most weapons / bow animation to put on back etc)
X = sit
You can Control + some buttons too.
You have to pay attention because the foes have dynamic shields which are visible and shift around depending on which side or direction your attacking from (another plus for AoC A.I. here) you can also toggle your own shields on too but I forgot the keys for it right now.
All of this I picked up in about 15 mins when I played assassin mainly at Funcom offices. Its pretty intuative and also feels different to other mmorpg's in that you feel your actually having an impact when fighting. I've played quite a few mmo's and this really comes off as fun to me. I dunno if you watched the video where all the press and me were playing, but you can hear me laugh a few times because it was a kinda awesome feeling to lop a monsters head off - and let me add satisfying too :P
When you do a combo its not rushed, you take your time, you have to be mindfull of what combo your using, its type, its leading direction so you can time one against a monster say where they have little or no shields on that side of them.
Anyway hope that helps. It might sound complicated but its pretty easy to get to grips with. Just have to keep an eye on the shields of the foe.
Have you heard of the Might and Magic series of RPG's? they had no auto attack and were very popular single player games. I can also honestly say I've seen more posts from people whinging for change rather than sticking with the same old routine for auto attack the past year.
With AoC it will seem familar at first but its after about 30 mins or so you realise this is different then you start to work out whats best for you when you play.
I also have to mention its not like Guild Wars where you go into an area and cant swap out your skills, you can do this anytime in AoC.
I also want to add about mount fighting, - there isnt an mmorpg out there that lets you attack from either side of your mount in real time either - another first. Its totally different to anything attempted before, and on the version I saw and played, its smoother than a babies bottom.
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
Combat is awesome, honestly. Merging two classes has no resemblence on how you fight does it
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Or...you could go to the TTH site and watch non-nda breaking videos of the fansite event Avery and other went to this past January where the video shows them sitting a gamepad-less computer and doing just fine with mouse and keyboard. Looks like to me you just don't want to make the effort to find the answers to your "concerns". They are out there. You just have to be willing to look for them.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack.
Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming.
AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base.
My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack. Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming. AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base. My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack. Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming. AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base. My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
Very well said Sings. Very well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by admriker4
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack. Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming. AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base. My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
Seems like you already have your mind made up before you even posted anything today.
You do realise that the game was designed for PC first then will be ported to 360 - like in a years time!
By the same method you used - can you name a quasi fps mmorpg that sold more than 50k subs? if not then how are you basing the fact this game will fail. none? because it hasnt been done before? Why fly to the moon? Why build big aeroplanes? did the Wright brother just give up, or did they push the envelope?
Btw you wrong if you think its FPS style - big time. Its similar to what we have now but different in alot of way but in NO way degrading to gameplay. Im ambidextrous too so I found it just as good holding the mouse in left hand
EDIT: btw the GW statements were to the other guy, and also I think we did a good job to answer your questions in your first post, but this thread kinda went from positive to you jumping the gun and calling doom on AoC's combat fast, bit harsh as you havent tried it yet and all the previews out there...LOVE IT.
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack. Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming. AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base. My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
I dont agree that Funcom is making a radically different combat style. Theyre making a console game combat system and forcing it to work on a PC. This style of combat has proven to be very unpopular to mmorpg gamers.
I do love the finishing move thing, the videos of those are very cool.
The problem I have with quasi FPS genre for MMO's is two-fold...
1. I simply dont have the hand-eye cooridination to keep up with the younger guys. In a game like SWG post NGE, I have no shot to compete in pvp. Those guys are jumping around, moving, running in circles, etc and firing at me like crazy. I cant keep my crosshairs on them, much less get some damage on them. I play rpg's because this isnt a consideration.
2. quasi fps genre negates stats for armor and weapons. In a typical MMORPG I will spend months if not years working to get better gear. More powerful gear means more powerful avatar. It means my time and effort are rewarded. Now with a fps style combat system, it comes down to who has better hand skills. I have no problem with that system in say Halo but in an environment where I spend months working in, hand-eye cooridination shouldnt be the deciding factor.
I guess Im just a little surprised and disappointed in funcom's decision but I understand it. The Console crowd has to be considered as well and Im not sure how well a classic MMORPG combat system would work. I tried FF11 once and it was clearly made for PS2 controls, what a mess that was on PC. Just opening up your inventory or chatting took me having to thumb through a 200 page manual to accomplish.
I love the lore of Conan so much that I'll probably give the game a shot. Im hoping that I can stick to crafting only once I reach 20 or 40. The combat just wont ever appeal to me if it relies on physical skills. If the resource gathering areas are safe, maybe I can avoid combat and build a business like I had in SWG
I dont agree that Funcom is making a radically different combat style. Theyre making a console game combat system and forcing it to work on a PC. This style of combat has proven to be very unpopular to mmorpg gamers. I do love the finishing move thing, the videos of those are very cool. The problem I have with quasi FPS genre for MMO's is two-fold... 1. I simply dont have the hand-eye cooridination to keep up with the younger guys. In a game like SWG post NGE, I have no shot to compete in pvp. Those guys are jumping around, moving, running in circles, etc and firing at me like crazy. I cant keep my crosshairs on them, much less get some damage on them. I play rpg's because this isnt a consideration. 2. quasi fps genre negates stats for armor and weapons. In a typical MMORPG I will spend months if not years working to get better gear. More powerful gear means more powerful avatar. It means my time and effort are rewarded. Now with a fps style combat system, it comes down to who has better hand skills. I have no problem with that system in say Halo but in an environment where I spend months working in, hand-eye cooridination shouldnt be the deciding factor. I guess Im just a little surprised and disappointed in funcom's decision but I understand it. The Console crowd has to be considered as well and Im not sure how well a classic MMORPG combat system would work. I tried FF11 once and it was clearly made for PS2 controls, what a mess that was on PC. Just opening up your inventory or chatting took me having to thumb through a 200 page manual to accomplish. I love the lore of Conan so much that I'll probably give the game a shot. Im hoping that I can stick to crafting only once I reach 20 or 40. The combat just wont ever appeal to me if it relies on physical skills. If the resource gathering areas are safe, maybe I can avoid combat and build a business like I had in SWG
All right, I can see your concerns. But I wouldn't just give up on it and declare it as "Console-Oriented". Yes, it is more action-oriented, but I wouldn't say it's FPS-Stylish. I'd think that, the least one should do, is give it a try, who knows, it might be as intuitive as Avery said, it might be the exact opposite. We will have to see.
I do know that Conan was first developed for PC (with the thought of porting it to Console), but I do think the controls were designed for PC, meaning Keyboard and Mouse.
Anyway, all I'm saying is, the doom-atmosphere is not helping anyone. It may be good, it may be bad, but at least try it before you judge it.
Currently crafting level is tied to adventure level (1-80) and not your pvp level (a separate 1-20), so you will have to fight some creatures to get levels to open crafting higher tiered items. Unless you have an existing medical condition I don't think combat will be too un-wieldly when fighting npcs. Again, it didn't look like they were doing hand-stands in the Oslo event videos that Avery and others posted. I'm sure you could always make friends in game too and they'd help you hunt as well.
Miss my Doctor in SWG and crafting and selling pharmeceuticals. SOE and NGE= Epic Fail.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack. Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming. AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base. My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
Seems like you already have your mind made up before you even posted anything today.
You do realise that the game was designed for PC first then will be ported to 360 - like in a years time!
By the same method you used - can you name a quasi fps mmorpg that sold more than 50k subs? if not then how are you basing the fact this game will fail. none? because it hasnt been done before? Why fly to the moon? Why build big aeroplanes? did the Wright brother just give up, or did they push the envelope?
Btw you wrong if you think its FPS style - big time. Its similar to what we have now but different in alot of way but in NO way degrading to gameplay. Im ambidextrous too so I found it just as good holding the mouse in left hand
EDIT: btw the GW statements were to the other guy, and also I think we did a good job to answer your questions in your first post, but this thread kinda went from positive to you jumping the gun and calling doom on AoC's combat fast, bit harsh as you havent tried it yet and all the previews out there...LOVE IT.
I wouldnt be here asking questions if I didnt want to give the game a shot. I collected Conan comics for years and the idea of being in Cimmeria is very appealing.
And not all aspects of the combat system do I dislike, the finishing move for example is amazing.
Im just not too keen on the idea that my combat success will come down to my twice broken wrists and eye glasses wearing vision. I prefer relying on my avatar's gear and my strategy choices with special attacks.
Its not just me either. This genre is very popular for consoles and the younger crowds that play them. But when I mentioned the combat system to some ex-guildies from SWG the response was immediate, no thanks.
Comments
It's easy to play as a hunter, so easy I stopped playing on mine. I've played all classes and 5 of them at 60. I have raided, raided a lot. Topped the damage meters, not all the times ofc.
oo, looks like your statement is false
60 hunters and 70 hunters have a big fat zero in common, raid wise. Sorry, he's right, you're wrong, hunter is the hardest DPS class to use correctly in a Raid. Hmm, maybe Warlock is harder. Well, its in the top 2 in any case.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
I didnt know thats how the combat system worked, you have to click every attack? old people arent going to want to do that. That doesnt make much sense though.. didnt funcom think of that? young people will click but oh wait... they cant play because its 18+
HOGG4LIFE
Other MMO's you still need to click. With the hotkeys there are even more buttons to have to press. Also even if you don't use the hotkeys, you still need to use the mouse to click on all of those spell icons. I don't think it will be a HUGE problem.
Osahar Ismassri
Conscript of King's Guard
http://guild-of-kings-guard.com/
I must say these combat video kinda dampened my interest in AoC greatly. It reminds me SO of the NGE combat from SWG. Aim and turn. If SOE didnt understand one big thing back then with the NGE combat it was people coming from a CRPG background didnt want to AIM, take cover and target. Its just the nature of the beast MMORPGs. There is a minority who likes this, and a special interest group playing online shooters like Planetside, and thats it. The rest, as I see it, has little to zero interest to go into the hassle of aim and miss. Its only a video ok, but if I understood it right and the stick to this, it may become a big desaster.
Using number to aim, WASD to walk and mouse to look AND numbers for special moves sounds like the right combat system for an octupus!
I am totally honest here. The classic EQ/WOW/DAOC/UO whatever MMO system of using skills to more or less stationary mobs in front of me is just so much as I can handle. Whenever possible I turn on auto-turn and auto-attack. Maybe its because I am no longer 18 a long while now, and I get old, or I never was that nimble I dunno. I bet quite a lot that many are rather unwilling to go into a clickfest as that sounds.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
exactly my concerns which is why I posted this subject.
Combat like AoC is proposing requires a 3rd hand or as my son says, a gamepad. And that my friends is why I think the combat is made the way it is...its best suited and designed for the console and its controller.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, consoles have no business existing in the MMO world unless the developers force them button smashers to hook up a keyboard and mouse. Consoles have USB ports, although Ive never seen a keyboard or mouse for sale for my son's xbox360
So in my opinion what we're getting with AoC is a combat system designed to work best for a console's gamepad. This quasi-fps doesnt belong in MMO's. It negates stats on armor and weapons because it ultimately comes down to whoever has the best reflexes (and a 3rd thumb). These combat systems never work, see the other games using no auto-target / no auto-attack systems. Theyre all small candy in the MMO industry rarely doing more than 50k players.
Dude, if button mashing is your concern, go with a caster class such as the Necro or the Demonologist.
See you on the bloodstained battlefields of virtual Hyboria late May!
Other MMO's you still need to click. With the hotkeys there are even more buttons to have to press. Also even if you don't use the hotkeys, you still need to use the mouse to click on all of those spell icons. I don't think it will be a HUGE problem.
We will see... More then anything however this might be a deal breaker for this game. I really like having to do a bit of thinking in games rather then mindlessly clicking of turning the game into a dexterity challenge which ultimately just becomes frustrating and boring.
So far I don't see anything that entirely unique other then the directional attacks in AoC, you have no autoattack and the fact that every attack is an AE attack which I'm wondering how will impact things like mez abilities. Seems to me this could create an imbalance by making mez type abilities ineffective.
It will be nice when open beta starts and we can get some real feedback on this system. I like most everything I've read about AoC and I'm pretty excited about the game but I'm not going to preorder this time. Probably a good thing the last few games I've preordered have had problems at launch, I think I'm hexing them by preordering
---
Ethion
I'm thinking that you'll be able to rebind your direction attacks to whatever you like. Personally this is what I'm gonna do:
I have a mouse with 2 thumb buttons so what I plan to do is bind the mouse wheel up, down and click to my main 3 attacks and the 2 shoulder buttons to the other 2 that melee characters supposedly get when they get to higher level. This way, I can hold down right click to spin my character around and look in various directions, move around with the WASD buttons and still select my attacks as I see fit with the other fingers on the mouse that don't usually do much of anything. All the other combo starters can more then likely be bound to any of the other buttons located around the WASD such as Q or E or perhaps even F. And since I don't plan on using my 1,2,3 keys for directional attacks I can then map them to some of the special abilities.
In regards to mezz abilities, I have not really heard much on this subject. Maybe I've not been reading enough about other people's abilities but I am really not worried. People are usually smart enough and inventive enough to make it work for them. To use WoW for a comparison (and for lack of a better thing to compare it to) I have spoken to some of the people about their setups and they have found a ton of ways to bind thins to random keys. There is the whole option of holding down shift+button and they've even done this for mouse wheel as well. I doubt that the Q,E,1,2,3 controlls are carved in stone and so rigidly enforced that you won't be able to customize any of it. I would think that customization would be one of the things FunCom would provide the most no matter what it partains to.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
my bigest concern is that it will be clunky, and with how they are cutting so many things back, and taking things out till later, i worry that they will rush to many things for a release date....they will kick themselves later for it...they will, i think it will flop, which is to bad, because it has some fun aspects, nothing necessarily new but fun...to bad. sorry to say AoC is shaping up to be a release flop
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Like Avery, I welcome the no auto-attack. Why can't FunCom try something else. I applaud them for sticking to this.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Like Avery, I welcome the no auto-attack. Why can't FunCom try something else. I applaud them for sticking to this.
I guess Im just a little surprised by their decision. Game features should appeal to the product's target market. I assumed Funcom was targeting me..
adult prolly 25-42, veteran of rpg's and MMO's in general, conan comic book fan. Oh and yes classic rpg combat.
Dont get me wrong, there is a ton of room for improvement on the wowish classic rpg combat systems. And I applaud Funcom for their attempt. And I love the finishing move animations. But it makes no sense to me that they cant put in auto-targeting and auto-attack into the current system.
Its apparent based on the controls that a gamepad is better suited for the combat. And since the game is heading for the console, it might be thats where the marketing suits decided to try and impress. FPS style combat appeals to the 15-24 console crowd, not to my generation (see the many concerned posts here who agree with me)
I think its a mistake to design a combat system that wont appeal to the conan fans out there who also happen to be rpg combat style fans. The fps MMO market is niche at best and none of those games are even marginal hits.
Its a shame to see this game heading for the cliff of failure. It has so mch potential. Great music and sound effects, great pvp siege stuff, city building, nice graphics, etc but the combat will make or break any game. Using a niche unpopular system ??? What were they thinking seriously ?
In WOW with my priest I have about 40 spells available. Truth around 10 are the most used, and 5 used over and over again, but it's great having so many possibilities, even a spell that you use once in a while can be very important to your group or to you at some point, and make the difference.
With regards to the "having to do too much at once/need 3rd hand" situation - i dont think that it will be anywhere near as demanding as most fear. Your hands probably do more than you realise in games you are currently playing/have played. In GW, my set up is as follows;
Skills 1-8 : 1, 2, 3, Lshift, x, f, r, v
Weapon Sets 1-4: g, mouse 5, mouse 4, caps
Nearest Foe: C
Next Foe: Tab
Nearest Item: T
Show Allies: Alt
Show Foes: Ctrl
Auto Run: 4
Cancel Action: ` (Weird little symbol button to left of #1 key)
Supress Action (melee only): Mouse 5
Keyboard Movement: WADQE
Thats at least 24 buttons, which are frequently used in battle, all of them. Atop of that, always watching Party Bar, always watching radar, always watching every foe nearby and at distance for mistakes/openings/weaknesses/strengths, need uber-reflexes on some professions, watching own health/energy levels, upholding maticulous positioning on the field, mouse-clicking foes and allies, clicking-to-move, amongst other things - and that is just the physical side of the game. Of course the majority of most games is played out on the heads of the players, not the fingers, and in GW maybe more than most.
My point is, the AoC mechanics will most definitely take some getting used to, but get used to it everyone will. I'm sure there are games more complicated, finger-dancing-wise, than GW, which thousands play happily. There are plenty of oldies playing GW very well, and all games. Infact, the calm-heads of elder players will probably do more good on a hectic battle-field than the twitch-fingers of the ragamuffin youth.
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Hi Mr. Riker
Actually whats so awesome is that a gamepad can be used to play the game as well. Whats even more surprising for me it looks like it doesnt offer any benefit apart from personal preferance in choice - thats all. Just the above poster says 24 linked key for him in GW.
If you have ever played Guild Wars? its similar in control with the mouse, except you dont have to cntrl+C to autotarget then press your hotbar keys.
In AoC you can run by pressing both mouse buttons, you can let go on the right one and use the left one to view around you character like to see behind you. If you do the opposite you swivel your character around. So if your right handed you use your right hand for the mouse, and with the left hand you do you directions :
Q,1,2,3,E (Q and E directions come later in the game (part of the original redesign from beta feedback in the summer last year) ) you can also use your left hand to do your combo's :-
To activate a combo you can press the key for it say 4-9 (1,2,3 are your directions), then the combat rose highlights a yellow marker for few seconds, you have to either click the yellow marker or press your direction (Q,1,2,3,E) (so you have a choice), when you either click or press your corresponding direction the next direction lights up guiding you to press or click the next one and so on till you have performed your combo.
eg combo rose highlights set order in sequence at a normal speed, like 1,3,1 so you have to press those buttons or click on combat rose to do those directions - default = left swing, right swing, left swing and that = your 'combo' and give extra damage for doing so.
If you know the correct order you can just do you (q,1,2,3,e) directions (or whatever keys you have mapped) and pull it off if you know it. (no initial click or button press for related combo on hotbar)
So you actually have to do it, step by step and its not 1 button click combo = done. And mashing doesnt help either - of course you can just swing your directions anytime but you wont do the extra damage from a combo, nor currently perform a fatality (if you do a combo and it kills someone it increases your chance of a fatality I was told in Oslo)
Combo's start with different directions, so say you might have hotbar selections 4-6 and left leaders and 7+8 as overhead and 9 as right leaders so your ever changing depending on your opponents shields (dynamic)
Later in the game the U.I changes on the hotbar allowing you to add in Q and E in a different way (lvl 40 right now)
With rangers they have said you can "Tab" to soft lock the nearest opponent, for help as just directing your characters body to face the foe and fire was a bit difficult.
You can press TAB in game (current default) and it will target nearest foe - remember no auto attack - so its just for visual guidance and also so you can see their health etc.
On the hotbar too on the left side of the combat rose you can current put 'potions' and 'food' there so you have to click on them to use, the only mappable buttons from the hotbar are the combo slots and the directional slots (1,2,3) so you combo's start from 4 to say 9.
W,A,S,D are default movement too so if you dont like to use your mouse for that. Also arrow keys work like this.
Double tapping these will make your character jump in that direction (well more of either a defensive or offensive hop) remember you have to face your target to get in a) swing of weapon arc b) for rangers in their sights or C) for spells in the cone shape area. So double tap movement is usefull.
Z and C are also strafe left and right (default settings)
I = inventory
H= Hide (Stealth) - all classes can do - Rogues better - again you train this / put points in per level (just one area among a few , some classes have different area's / class specifics)
F keys can be mapped too
= toggle between combat mode = weapon sheath (yes there are sheaths in game for most weapons / bow animation to put on back etc)
X = sit
You can Control + some buttons too.
You have to pay attention because the foes have dynamic shields which are visible and shift around depending on which side or direction your attacking from (another plus for AoC A.I. here) you can also toggle your own shields on too but I forgot the keys for it right now.
All of this I picked up in about 15 mins when I played assassin mainly at Funcom offices. Its pretty intuative and also feels different to other mmorpg's in that you feel your actually having an impact when fighting. I've played quite a few mmo's and this really comes off as fun to me. I dunno if you watched the video where all the press and me were playing, but you can hear me laugh a few times because it was a kinda awesome feeling to lop a monsters head off - and let me add satisfying too :P
When you do a combo its not rushed, you take your time, you have to be mindfull of what combo your using, its type, its leading direction so you can time one against a monster say where they have little or no shields on that side of them.
Anyway hope that helps. It might sound complicated but its pretty easy to get to grips with. Just have to keep an eye on the shields of the foe.
Have you heard of the Might and Magic series of RPG's? they had no auto attack and were very popular single player games. I can also honestly say I've seen more posts from people whinging for change rather than sticking with the same old routine for auto attack the past year.
With AoC it will seem familar at first but its after about 30 mins or so you realise this is different then you start to work out whats best for you when you play.
I also have to mention its not like Guild Wars where you go into an area and cant swap out your skills, you can do this anytime in AoC.
I also want to add about mount fighting, - there isnt an mmorpg out there that lets you attack from either side of your mount in real time either - another first. Its totally different to anything attempted before, and on the version I saw and played, its smoother than a babies bottom.
Animations are awesome and smooth, no auto attack is a godsend as people have to pay attention.
No combat mechanics have been taken out, all that happened was they made it when you start you get 3 directions not 5, at level 40 you get the rest at this point in time.
Its shaping up to be really successfull, hope you get into Beta and had the same experience when I played it at their offices.
Reminds me of Guild Wars but better animations, more choices and you have to concentrate.
Instead of just claiming its gonna be awesome, how about some details ?
Can you explain whats so awesome about the combat that seems to designed for a gamepad to play ? How am I to use specials when my two hands will be busy trying to keep in range and direction and clicking that rose thing at the same time ?
How exactly is no auto-target / auto attack a benefit besides as you state "makes people pay attention" ? As several others here have posted, this is a vital feature mmorpg gamers come to expect and desire for their gamplay. Many of us hate fps type clickfests.
Name one single MMO that has more than 50k subscribers that utilizes a quasi-fps system with no auto-target or auot-attack. There arent any. I think Funcom is making a huuuge mistake.
Or...you could go to the TTH site and watch non-nda breaking videos of the fansite event Avery and other went to this past January where the video shows them sitting a gamepad-less computer and doing just fine with mouse and keyboard. Looks like to me you just don't want to make the effort to find the answers to your "concerns". They are out there. You just have to be willing to look for them.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
First off, GW isnt a quasi FPS. It has auto-target and auto-attack.
Second, GW is just like any other MMORPG. I dont recall it being anywhere near as complex as your setup. My typical setup for all MMO's is keymap controls to arrow keys (i dont do WASD). Then I point/click with my mouse on the bar where my specials are located. Simple, easy, and proven method Ive been using for 20 years of PC gaming.
AoC fans better be ready for a shock in subscriber numbers. The fact is quasi fps games for MMO's dont work. They fail miserably. 50k players is a success for that genre. The talk of being a WoW killer is way off base.
My thinking is Funcom's suits must know this but dont care. Theyve designed the game for xbox360 users which of course is a great risk.
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
Very well said Sings. Very well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Seems like you already have your mind made up before you even posted anything today.
You do realise that the game was designed for PC first then will be ported to 360 - like in a years time!
By the same method you used - can you name a quasi fps mmorpg that sold more than 50k subs? if not then how are you basing the fact this game will fail. none? because it hasnt been done before? Why fly to the moon? Why build big aeroplanes? did the Wright brother just give up, or did they push the envelope?
Btw you wrong if you think its FPS style - big time. Its similar to what we have now but different in alot of way but in NO way degrading to gameplay. Im ambidextrous too so I found it just as good holding the mouse in left hand
EDIT: btw the GW statements were to the other guy, and also I think we did a good job to answer your questions in your first post, but this thread kinda went from positive to you jumping the gun and calling doom on AoC's combat fast, bit harsh as you havent tried it yet and all the previews out there...LOVE IT.
It's this kind of attitude that is the reason that most of the games that come out these days are what everyone loves to call "clones" of WoW. It's this kind of attitude that makes Developers design their games along the standards. All the while, people are shouting for changes and for innovative things and for new things and when a company actually does it, they flame them for doing it? Is this a joke? FunCom at least is making an effort to change things, to improve on existing gameplay, to make it more fun and fast-paced. You won#t get any "Next-Gen" Games if nobody tries something new. Now I don't know how the Combat-System will work out, I may even, at some point, realize I hate it, but at least I am willing to give it a chance instead of mindlessly whining that it's too complicated.
I dont agree that Funcom is making a radically different combat style. Theyre making a console game combat system and forcing it to work on a PC. This style of combat has proven to be very unpopular to mmorpg gamers.
I do love the finishing move thing, the videos of those are very cool.
The problem I have with quasi FPS genre for MMO's is two-fold...
1. I simply dont have the hand-eye cooridination to keep up with the younger guys. In a game like SWG post NGE, I have no shot to compete in pvp. Those guys are jumping around, moving, running in circles, etc and firing at me like crazy. I cant keep my crosshairs on them, much less get some damage on them. I play rpg's because this isnt a consideration.
2. quasi fps genre negates stats for armor and weapons. In a typical MMORPG I will spend months if not years working to get better gear. More powerful gear means more powerful avatar. It means my time and effort are rewarded. Now with a fps style combat system, it comes down to who has better hand skills. I have no problem with that system in say Halo but in an environment where I spend months working in, hand-eye cooridination shouldnt be the deciding factor.
I guess Im just a little surprised and disappointed in funcom's decision but I understand it. The Console crowd has to be considered as well and Im not sure how well a classic MMORPG combat system would work. I tried FF11 once and it was clearly made for PS2 controls, what a mess that was on PC. Just opening up your inventory or chatting took me having to thumb through a 200 page manual to accomplish.
I love the lore of Conan so much that I'll probably give the game a shot. Im hoping that I can stick to crafting only once I reach 20 or 40. The combat just wont ever appeal to me if it relies on physical skills. If the resource gathering areas are safe, maybe I can avoid combat and build a business like I had in SWG
I do know that Conan was first developed for PC (with the thought of porting it to Console), but I do think the controls were designed for PC, meaning Keyboard and Mouse.
Anyway, all I'm saying is, the doom-atmosphere is not helping anyone. It may be good, it may be bad, but at least try it before you judge it.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Currently crafting level is tied to adventure level (1-80) and not your pvp level (a separate 1-20), so you will have to fight some creatures to get levels to open crafting higher tiered items. Unless you have an existing medical condition I don't think combat will be too un-wieldly when fighting npcs. Again, it didn't look like they were doing hand-stands in the Oslo event videos that Avery and others posted. I'm sure you could always make friends in game too and they'd help you hunt as well.
Miss my Doctor in SWG and crafting and selling pharmeceuticals.
SOE and NGE= Epic Fail.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Seems like you already have your mind made up before you even posted anything today.
You do realise that the game was designed for PC first then will be ported to 360 - like in a years time!
By the same method you used - can you name a quasi fps mmorpg that sold more than 50k subs? if not then how are you basing the fact this game will fail. none? because it hasnt been done before? Why fly to the moon? Why build big aeroplanes? did the Wright brother just give up, or did they push the envelope?
Btw you wrong if you think its FPS style - big time. Its similar to what we have now but different in alot of way but in NO way degrading to gameplay. Im ambidextrous too so I found it just as good holding the mouse in left hand
EDIT: btw the GW statements were to the other guy, and also I think we did a good job to answer your questions in your first post, but this thread kinda went from positive to you jumping the gun and calling doom on AoC's combat fast, bit harsh as you havent tried it yet and all the previews out there...LOVE IT.
I wouldnt be here asking questions if I didnt want to give the game a shot. I collected Conan comics for years and the idea of being in Cimmeria is very appealing.
And not all aspects of the combat system do I dislike, the finishing move for example is amazing.
Im just not too keen on the idea that my combat success will come down to my twice broken wrists and eye glasses wearing vision. I prefer relying on my avatar's gear and my strategy choices with special attacks.
Its not just me either. This genre is very popular for consoles and the younger crowds that play them. But when I mentioned the combat system to some ex-guildies from SWG the response was immediate, no thanks.