They should just make one class: Conan And make it like a chuck norris where you can just do anything by that logic.
Addition by subtraction doesn't work very often, and perhaps it was the best solution to a poorly designed class structure, but it is still poorly designed if they are making huge cuts this late in development.
I would rather see the lich become a better class with some cross powers, maybe a debuff or heal added to it's shapeshift deamonlike counterpart to set it apart from the herald and not just axed.
Also, being a beta tester, I can say that I think the game will be worse without the class. I made one, and the visuals and the playstyle was unique and imo better than the herald. Just not unique enough to make either of them viable on their own.
They should just make one class: Conan And make it like a chuck norris where you can just do anything by that logic. Addition by subtraction doesn't work very often, and perhaps it was the best solution to a poorly designed class structure, but it is still poorly designed if they are making huge cuts this late in development. I would rather see the lich become a better class with some cross powers, maybe a debuff or heal added to it's shapeshift deamonlike counterpart to set it apart from the herald and not just axed. Also, being a beta tester, I can say that I think the game will be worse without the class. I made one, and the visuals and the playstyle was unique and imo better than the herald. Just not unique enough to make either of them viable on their own. I prefer addition through addition.
You are a Beta-tester and only realized they were merging the classes now? I mean....this info has been around, officially, for weeks and weeks. And you make a thread now, jumping on it as if it's something new and suddenly also tell us you're a beta-tester?? Something doesn't add up....doesn't add up.
They should just make one class: Conan And make it like a chuck norris where you can just do anything by that logic. Addition by subtraction doesn't work very often, and perhaps it was the best solution to a poorly designed class structure, but it is still poorly designed if they are making huge cuts this late in development. I would rather see the lich become a better class with some cross powers, maybe a debuff or heal added to it's shapeshift deamonlike counterpart to set it apart from the herald and not just axed. Also, being a beta tester, I can say that I think the game will be worse without the class. I made one, and the visuals and the playstyle was unique and imo better than the herald. Just not unique enough to make either of them viable on their own. I prefer addition through addition.
You are a Beta-tester and only realized they were merging the classes now? I mean....this info has been around, officially, for weeks and weeks. And you make a thread now, jumping on it as if it's something new and suddenly also tell us you're a beta-tester?? Something doesn't add up....doesn't add up.
Not that I am taking smitty's side, but when was it that public beta testers were paid money and thus drop real life responsibilities and other uncontrollable events to devote their time to nothing but the beta. I have been in betas in the past where I was unavailable to commit myself for 2 weeks before. Does that mean I'm not valuable because I have real world responsibilities. Glass house.. casting stones.. be careful.
I wouldn't know where there is a glass-house here, but if that's the case with him, sure, that might have happened. I did not, in any way (at least I think not) insult the man (or woman^^), I just stated that it sounded rather fishy. *shrug* Considering how many people stop by the AoC Forums on these boards just to troll and to bash the game, maybe I'm a little paranoid.
We all can be, at times,a bit tense when it comes to something that is of interest to us. At the same time, at this point in Conan's life having an NDA is nothing more but stifling true conversation to the players that do not have a say until the game is either open beta or at launch. Removing content and features is never a good way to start off a launch no matter how you spin it. Personally, I have no real strong urge to play Conan, but I'm not opposed to it. I will wait my turn like everyone else and make my decisions accordingly.
With all these changes being made any time a voice of opposition comes out it is squelched by either people screaming NDA, countered by people like Avery, and discredited completely. While it may be possible that the majority of negative posts may be nothing but baseless claims, at times there are the true posts out there by people like us, with their own opinions on things and honestly wanting to try and help shape the game.
We all can be, at times,a bit tense when it comes to something that is of interest to us. At the same time, at this point in Conan's life having an NDA is nothing more but stifling true conversation to the players that do not have a say until the game is either open beta or at launch. Removing content and features is never a good way to start off a launch no matter how you spin it. Personally, I have no real strong urge to play Conan, but I'm not opposed to it. I will wait my turn like everyone else and make my decisions accordingly.
With all these changes being made any time a voice of opposition comes out it is squelched by either people screaming NDA, countered by people like Avery, and discredited completely. While it may be possible that the majority of negative posts may be nothing but baseless claims, at times there are the true posts out there by people, like us, with their own opinions on things and honestly wanting to try and help shape things.
The problem here is that it's the same people who are making the claims over and over again. Me personally, I have long ago decided to have my copy of the game at release and see for myself what the game is. What I don't understand is why everyone else seems to think that doubtful information, lies, blatant discrediting and the likes is a way to treat any game. That goes for AoC as well as for WAR. People seem to think that they are on some sort of holy crusade against evil Developers who want to exploit gamers which is, to put it bluntly, crap.
Anyone with a right mindset will judge for himself what the game is like at launch or after launch. They will either test the game themselves then, or at least wait for reports of the game once it is released, a report that can test the complete game without the restrictions a Beta puts on any kind of report that could be thrown out. THEN they will decide and then they will either play it or not. There are others, like me, who decide they can spare the cash to take the risk, knowing full well that the game might not live up to the hopes and expectations, but still willing to give it the benefit of doubt until proven wrong, and not proven by some half-truths and fabrications, not even the so called "leaks" which, in all essence, still only show a portion of the game PLUS, can never give you the feel for playing it yourself.
In my opinion, most of the people who break the NDA to leak info, be it good or bad, are just attention-seekers, trying to draw audience to themselves by giving insider-information they should not be sharing according to their agreement. Notice that I said most, so stop your flaming on me before you even start. Every one of those people can look to themselves and ask themselves why they are really doing it and why the other thousands of testers are not doing it.
I'm tired of people trying to bash games which are not yet released without any sense or purpose and I'm quite honestly tired of people trying to tell me how -I- will like the game. Do I want to play AoC? Yes, I want to and I will. Do I think it will be a good game? I am hoping for it. Do I think it will be the second coming? I don't know and I am not betting on it, not even hoping for it. Do I care what other people think about the game? Not really, unless it's my significant other with whom I plan to play after all.
You also may want to take a look at the recently published article by FunCom. There's a link in the Forums or you can find it on their official page. It makes for a very good read and it addresses the cutting issues as well. It puts things into perspective a little. Of course, the Trolls will keep screaming lies...*shrug*
I agree that more classes is better, but going from 14 to 12 is not that big of a deal. And there is a difference between merging and deleting, all the skills that those classes possessed are still in the game and has made existing classes more diverse. Besides you can start with too many classes. It becomes difficult to manage when you throw too much out the door. Im fine with 12 at launch because im sure that more will be added with expansions. EQ started with 14 and i didnt see a lack of diversity there, 12 isnt much less. Most people probably wont play more then 4 or 5 classes anyway, i probably wont play more then 3. And those of you that are saying that skills are the way to go i hate to say that you really are in the minority. More games are made with a class system vis skill system because throughout MMO history Class based games have held better subscription numbers then skill based games. Im sure you will say that that is because skill based games take more "Skill", and that may be true, but it doesnt change the facts that Class based games pull more numbers.
I like the idea of skill based games, but there is a lot to be said for having classes. It gives you a framework within which to define your character. If you could choose any 25 skills from a pool of 100, things could go very wrong and it may take ages and masses of experimentation to develop an effective character. I think this sort of thing would appeal to people who twink in WoW, etc (like me) but most players would probably find it annoying.
Perhaps the choice of either selecting a pre-defined class from say a list of 10 or building one from scratch could be an option - a bit like when you build a PowerPoint slideshow, you can either choose a layout or start with a blank slide. You could either use a pre-defined skill pool and skill tree set, or choose a restricted selection of skills from the total skill pool and up to say, 3 trees of any type allowing you to mix and match.
Having said that, I have no idea if this suggestion would be at all manageable or would just throw the balance of the game out the window.
I like class based games with skills. I dont like going to a trainer and training in 2HS and instantly being great at 2HS.
If i am say a Paladin (which will never happen because they are nancy boys) i would like to have the option of skilling up 2HS, 1HS and Shild, Halberd, etc. I will never be able to master then all so i will have to choose which i really want. EQ was somewhat like that, although you could level up every weapon if you wanted to (and were able to equip) it just was kind of a pain to do so.
I like having a structured class, but it would be nice to have various ways to build that class. And i dont mean lame trees like WoW has, they were a ok idea but it still turned into "this tree is the best". When people started asking what my numbers were i knew it was not a good system.
I'm not sure how "late" the development circle is. They can still delay the game even further so the development circle becomes bigger.
As for this thread, I'm afraid we can only speculate behind the reasons behind the class deletions. The ever suspicious human nature dictates that they did it because they run out of time and couldn't balance them properly. Some voices mentioned earlier that these were not actually the only classes that got the axe, both melee and rogue subgroups had their own merges, with mage classes receiving the last merging. I don't know which side is closer to the truth. Certainly there can be truth in both the above speculations.
In the post Vanguard era, developers seem more willing to delay their products (following the wild horse Blizzard in this regard) so as to produce a polished experience. I believe that overall gamers have gained by this approach. Somewhere, somehow however, we (gamers) were deprived of our innocence by shady developer decisions of the past, thus looking at any and all fresh development with a suspicious eye. It may not be fair for the honest ones that want to deliver a good product, but it is the unfortunate legacy of past bad development choices.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
*furiously searches his sig and avatar for any AoC related stuff....fails miserably* <.< >.>
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
*furiously searches his sig and avatar for any AoC related stuff....fails miserably* <.< >.>
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.
Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
*furiously searches his sig and avatar for any AoC related stuff....fails miserably* <.< >.>
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.
Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Sure. I invite everyone to look at all my replies to topics. I have made it clear countless times that I am indeed looking forward to this game, but that I have my doubts. I've pointed out numerous times that what I dislike the most is senseless bashing like many people do on this forums and that is where I post. I've been civil and polite (at least I try to be, I may have gotten into the heat of arguement sometimes, but who doesn't?).
What I refute are accusations based on half-truths and hearsay. What I refute are people coming over from one forum to another to simply attack each others game, be that AoC or WAR or any other game. I dislike the tone many of the posters strike, and I've pointed out more than once that all I would like, is for people to form their -OWN- opinions of the game based on a released version, be that through free trials, buddy-passes or Reviews after the game is launched.
So please, go ahead and read my posts. I invite everyone to do so.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
*furiously searches his sig and avatar for any AoC related stuff....fails miserably* <.< >.>
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.
Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Sure. I invite everyone to look at all my replies to topics. I have made it clear countless times that I am indeed looking forward to this game, but that I have my doubts. I've pointed out numerous times that what I dislike the most is senseless bashing like many people do on this forums and that is where I post. I've been civil and polite (at least I try to be, I may have gotten into the heat of arguement sometimes, but who doesn't?).
What I refute are accusations based on half-truths and hearsay. What I refute are people coming over from one forum to another to simply attack each others game, be that AoC or WAR or any other game. I dislike the tone many of the posters strike, and I've pointed out more than once that all I would like, is for people to form their -OWN- opinions of the game based on a released version, be that through free trials, buddy-passes or Reviews after the game is launched.
So please, go ahead and read my posts. I invite everyone to do so.
well since the game hasnt been released, and theres an NDA in place, all your infomation falls into the category of half truths and hearsay as well. Unfortunately I think this sort of thing turns more people off than on about AoC. People are concerned, people have a right to voice their opinions, as do you. However, most people dont go topic to topic to immediately refute any negative thoughts on this game. I for one would like to see them live up to their promises in AoC, I fully plan on playing it. However I do not waste my time trying to belittle folks who have concerns about this game. In the end only the product in hand will prove who is right and who is wrong.
Relax man, you wont change peoples minds with a thread on this site. Especially not when you dog people relentlessly. AoC doesnt need this kind of PR, not at all.
well since the game hasnt been released, and theres an NDA in place, all your infomation falls into the category of half truths and hearsay as well. Unfortunately I think this sort of thing turns more people off than on about AoC. People are concerned, people have a right to voice their opinions, as do you. However, most people dont go topic to topic to immediately refute any negative thoughts on this game. I for one would like to see them live up to their promises in AoC, I fully plan on playing it. However I do not waste my time trying to belittle folks who have concerns about this game. In the end only the product in hand will prove who is right and who is wrong.
Relax man, you wont change peoples minds with a thread on this site. Especially not when you dog people relentlessly. AoC doesnt need this kind of PR, not at all.
Hmmm, interesting point. And I suppose true in many ways. I don#t think I'm "dogging" anyone in this forum. Considering my average postings, I am only a medium-active member here. I only look at the recently active topics and where I think I can contribute, I do. Isn't that the whole point of a Forum?
And where do I belittle people? All I really try to do is point out that maybe it would be a good idea to wait until the game is released to pass judgement. Many people here pass judgement now (the good and the bad judgement, there's both extremes), and I simply think that won't help them OR the game(s). That goes for Warhammer as well as AoC or any game in development right now.
And as you yourself stated, only the product in hand will prove who is right and who is wrong. See, that's really all I am saying as well. Many people though pass judgement on a game now. They come along with doomsday threads or with glorifying ones, both of which don#t really help someone to actually know what the game will be like.
I'm really sorry if you misunderstood me, or if I failed to bring my point across, but all I really try to do, is make people judge the game when it is released, not before. Oh, and of course I try to give information I have, which isn't much.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
P.S. Id also like to add, how silly will these naysayers look if theyre all going crazy with their predictions of doom, and no one responds to them? Its reminiscent of those crazy guys who carry around end of the world signs written on piece of cardboard. By even arguing with these guys you are giving them stock.
let them look crazy bythemselves, you wont have to lift a finger to do so.
And to you naysayers, keep it up, you always have to question everything, its the responsibility of savvy consumers. just try not to go too crazy, because the sky isnt always falling. ;')
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
P.S. Id also like to add, how silly will these naysayers look if theyre all going crazy with their predictions of doom, and no one responds to them? Its reminiscent of those crazy guys who carry around end of the world signs written on piece of cardboard. By even arguing with these guys you are giving them stock.
let them look crazy bythemselves, you wont have to lift a finger to do so.
Point well taken. Yes, it is certainly a way to ignore those people. Maybe I'm doing the wrong thing by replying to some of them (some, I have given up on. <.<).
That being said, I'm still going to contribute in this Forum, but I might cut back a little. *shrug* But hey, where would be the fun if no one talked back? ^_^ Sometimes mind you.
Edit: Also, I had to make this last post because I'm up to 250 now! Hooray me!
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
In a wonderful mature world that might happen, this isnt one of those. And MMORPG.com certainly isnt one of those.
If there were not people who come on to a board simply to bash a game that they have no intension of playing (not saying this is you, just saying that this happens alot) then diehard fanbois would not have anything to jump all diehard on.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc. Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
In a wonderful mature world that might happen, this isnt one of those. And MMORPG.com certainly isnt one of those.
If there were not people who come on to a board simply to bash a game that they have no intension of playing (not saying this is you, just saying that this happens alot) then diehard fanbois would not have anything to jump all diehard on.
Then again, just giving up, rolling over to die without so much as even trying to better a situation, well thats the silliest thing ive ever heard.
honestly..... who thinks less classes is better?!?! That's funny. I agree with the part that the different classes have to have some sort of angle to be unique, but at the same time, I would be willing to accept almost any subtle difference for a reason to be slightly different than the rest of the world. I wish they had double the classes and triple the content personally, so I can't believe anyone would be happy that they backtracked and deleted a class instead of doing some thinking and creating the separation in class!! Diablo 2 somehow managed to make several classes of warrior and caster that was not in Diablo 1... They just didn't meld paladin, assasin, and barbarian back into warrior because it was too hard to make them different. I think this was a rush job since this game keeps being delayed.
Why stop at double the classes? Heck, I'd like to see AoC have 113 classes. Who's with me? I mean, more options the better, right? What fun 113 classes! Just imagine all the content that the devs would never have time to implement! Oh the joy of the constant balance, nerf, FoM class battles. I can taste the elation on my tongue. I mean, let's get real. We all know that every developer currently employed by any company is a lazy bastard, and that they easily could put out more content if they weren't so lazy or incompetent. On top of that, I'm entirely confident in my opinion to judge gaming companies and the scoudrel developers working for them because I have a two year degree in HTML programming from my local community college.
Damn, I'm not even a supporter of AoC and you naysayers piss me off.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Case A: We didn't know anything about the classes. They introduced 1 class of each archetype adding 2 more as time passed by. All information regarding merges or deletions was never made public to the audience before the game launch. Some classes that were presented at launch were not even visible in beta. Game goes live with 12 classes.
Case B: 20 classes were announced in the 4 archetypes. As time passed by 2 of each archetype was merged into the remaining 3, leaving 3 classes per archetype. All info regarding the merges was made available to internal beta testers at fist, closed beta testers later on and open beta testers in the end. Game goes live with 12 classes.
What's the difference for us gamers playing the live game? The only difference between those two cases is that information is kept hidden until the very last moment, while in the second case too much information is presented.
For me the topic of this thread is a non-issue. We will get to play the live game, not the beta. Betas can be used for a lot of things, experimentation among them. Betas should not be used to fund the game (go live with an unfinished project). If it had 3 classes, the gameplay would be judged according to those. If it had 50 classes, it would be judged again under the same light. It will have 12. Same deal.
The big deal is whether the classes available at game launch are fun, this will make or break a game. Not if some of them got axed or merged.
So, if a class doesn't work out the way we hoped it would, we *might* keep it out on release if we can't come up with a good way to fix it. It would make no sense to either release the game with a broken/bad class or to hold up the game's release if we are not sure even how to fix a bad/broken class. One of the lessons from DAoC's development/evolution was that less is indeed sometimes more.
Merging of two of the classes will NOT ruin the game for me (plus I am sure we will see more classes in expansion(s)). After the merge we have 4 archetypes each with 3 classes, the variety is still there and I kind of like the fact that each archetype has equal number of classes now.
Comments
They should just make one class: Conan And make it like a chuck norris where you can just do anything by that logic.
Addition by subtraction doesn't work very often, and perhaps it was the best solution to a poorly designed class structure, but it is still poorly designed if they are making huge cuts this late in development.
I would rather see the lich become a better class with some cross powers, maybe a debuff or heal added to it's shapeshift deamonlike counterpart to set it apart from the herald and not just axed.
Also, being a beta tester, I can say that I think the game will be worse without the class. I made one, and the visuals and the playstyle was unique and imo better than the herald. Just not unique enough to make either of them viable on their own.
I prefer addition through addition.
Elite poster by 82
You are a Beta-tester and only realized they were merging the classes now? I mean....this info has been around, officially, for weeks and weeks. And you make a thread now, jumping on it as if it's something new and suddenly also tell us you're a beta-tester?? Something doesn't add up....doesn't add up.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
You are a Beta-tester and only realized they were merging the classes now? I mean....this info has been around, officially, for weeks and weeks. And you make a thread now, jumping on it as if it's something new and suddenly also tell us you're a beta-tester?? Something doesn't add up....doesn't add up.
Not that I am taking smitty's side, but when was it that public beta testers were paid money and thus drop real life responsibilities and other uncontrollable events to devote their time to nothing but the beta. I have been in betas in the past where I was unavailable to commit myself for 2 weeks before. Does that mean I'm not valuable because I have real world responsibilities. Glass house.. casting stones.. be careful.I wouldn't know where there is a glass-house here, but if that's the case with him, sure, that might have happened. I did not, in any way (at least I think not) insult the man (or woman^^), I just stated that it sounded rather fishy. *shrug* Considering how many people stop by the AoC Forums on these boards just to troll and to bash the game, maybe I'm a little paranoid.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
We all can be, at times,a bit tense when it comes to something that is of interest to us. At the same time, at this point in Conan's life having an NDA is nothing more but stifling true conversation to the players that do not have a say until the game is either open beta or at launch. Removing content and features is never a good way to start off a launch no matter how you spin it. Personally, I have no real strong urge to play Conan, but I'm not opposed to it. I will wait my turn like everyone else and make my decisions accordingly.
With all these changes being made any time a voice of opposition comes out it is squelched by either people screaming NDA, countered by people like Avery, and discredited completely. While it may be possible that the majority of negative posts may be nothing but baseless claims, at times there are the true posts out there by people like us, with their own opinions on things and honestly wanting to try and help shape the game.
Anyone with a right mindset will judge for himself what the game is like at launch or after launch. They will either test the game themselves then, or at least wait for reports of the game once it is released, a report that can test the complete game without the restrictions a Beta puts on any kind of report that could be thrown out. THEN they will decide and then they will either play it or not. There are others, like me, who decide they can spare the cash to take the risk, knowing full well that the game might not live up to the hopes and expectations, but still willing to give it the benefit of doubt until proven wrong, and not proven by some half-truths and fabrications, not even the so called "leaks" which, in all essence, still only show a portion of the game PLUS, can never give you the feel for playing it yourself.
In my opinion, most of the people who break the NDA to leak info, be it good or bad, are just attention-seekers, trying to draw audience to themselves by giving insider-information they should not be sharing according to their agreement. Notice that I said most, so stop your flaming on me before you even start. Every one of those people can look to themselves and ask themselves why they are really doing it and why the other thousands of testers are not doing it.
I'm tired of people trying to bash games which are not yet released without any sense or purpose and I'm quite honestly tired of people trying to tell me how -I- will like the game. Do I want to play AoC? Yes, I want to and I will. Do I think it will be a good game? I am hoping for it. Do I think it will be the second coming? I don't know and I am not betting on it, not even hoping for it. Do I care what other people think about the game? Not really, unless it's my significant other with whom I plan to play after all.
You also may want to take a look at the recently published article by FunCom. There's a link in the Forums or you can find it on their official page. It makes for a very good read and it addresses the cutting issues as well. It puts things into perspective a little. Of course, the Trolls will keep screaming lies...*shrug*
To each their own.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Yeah it's called "We're running out of time and we really haven't done crap with more than half the classes".
I like class based games with skills. I dont like going to a trainer and training in 2HS and instantly being great at 2HS.
If i am say a Paladin (which will never happen because they are nancy boys) i would like to have the option of skilling up 2HS, 1HS and Shild, Halberd, etc. I will never be able to master then all so i will have to choose which i really want. EQ was somewhat like that, although you could level up every weapon if you wanted to (and were able to equip) it just was kind of a pain to do so.
I like having a structured class, but it would be nice to have various ways to build that class. And i dont mean lame trees like WoW has, they were a ok idea but it still turned into "this tree is the best". When people started asking what my numbers were i knew it was not a good system.
I'm not sure how "late" the development circle is. They can still delay the game even further so the development circle becomes bigger.
As for this thread, I'm afraid we can only speculate behind the reasons behind the class deletions. The ever suspicious human nature dictates that they did it because they run out of time and couldn't balance them properly. Some voices mentioned earlier that these were not actually the only classes that got the axe, both melee and rogue subgroups had their own merges, with mage classes receiving the last merging. I don't know which side is closer to the truth. Certainly there can be truth in both the above speculations.
In the post Vanguard era, developers seem more willing to delay their products (following the wild horse Blizzard in this regard) so as to produce a polished experience. I believe that overall gamers have gained by this approach. Somewhere, somehow however, we (gamers) were deprived of our innocence by shady developer decisions of the past, thus looking at any and all fresh development with a suspicious eye. It may not be fair for the honest ones that want to deliver a good product, but it is the unfortunate legacy of past bad development choices.
Hmm an interesting side note, most of the people im this thread defending the "merge" have AoC related material, avatar, sig, etc.
Really that tells us all we need to know about your stance on this subject, theres really no reason even bother posting.
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Sure. I invite everyone to look at all my replies to topics. I have made it clear countless times that I am indeed looking forward to this game, but that I have my doubts. I've pointed out numerous times that what I dislike the most is senseless bashing like many people do on this forums and that is where I post. I've been civil and polite (at least I try to be, I may have gotten into the heat of arguement sometimes, but who doesn't?).What I refute are accusations based on half-truths and hearsay. What I refute are people coming over from one forum to another to simply attack each others game, be that AoC or WAR or any other game. I dislike the tone many of the posters strike, and I've pointed out more than once that all I would like, is for people to form their -OWN- opinions of the game based on a released version, be that through free trials, buddy-passes or Reviews after the game is launched.
So please, go ahead and read my posts. I invite everyone to do so.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
Your point? Not worth debating. *smirk*
actually if anyone would like to see the definition of fanboi, they should probably go look at all your previous posts. you rabidly defend this game without an ounce of mercy. It doesnt matter the topic, it doesnt matter the thread, there you are to refute any negative thoughts on this game whatsoever.Seriously, can we not be a little objective, perhaps wipe the froth from your lips as you try and destroy anyone that doesnt feel exactly like you do about AoC?
Sure. I invite everyone to look at all my replies to topics. I have made it clear countless times that I am indeed looking forward to this game, but that I have my doubts. I've pointed out numerous times that what I dislike the most is senseless bashing like many people do on this forums and that is where I post. I've been civil and polite (at least I try to be, I may have gotten into the heat of arguement sometimes, but who doesn't?).What I refute are accusations based on half-truths and hearsay. What I refute are people coming over from one forum to another to simply attack each others game, be that AoC or WAR or any other game. I dislike the tone many of the posters strike, and I've pointed out more than once that all I would like, is for people to form their -OWN- opinions of the game based on a released version, be that through free trials, buddy-passes or Reviews after the game is launched.
So please, go ahead and read my posts. I invite everyone to do so.
well since the game hasnt been released, and theres an NDA in place, all your infomation falls into the category of half truths and hearsay as well. Unfortunately I think this sort of thing turns more people off than on about AoC. People are concerned, people have a right to voice their opinions, as do you. However, most people dont go topic to topic to immediately refute any negative thoughts on this game. I for one would like to see them live up to their promises in AoC, I fully plan on playing it. However I do not waste my time trying to belittle folks who have concerns about this game. In the end only the product in hand will prove who is right and who is wrong.Relax man, you wont change peoples minds with a thread on this site. Especially not when you dog people relentlessly. AoC doesnt need this kind of PR, not at all.
And where do I belittle people? All I really try to do is point out that maybe it would be a good idea to wait until the game is released to pass judgement. Many people here pass judgement now (the good and the bad judgement, there's both extremes), and I simply think that won't help them OR the game(s). That goes for Warhammer as well as AoC or any game in development right now.
And as you yourself stated, only the product in hand will prove who is right and who is wrong. See, that's really all I am saying as well. Many people though pass judgement on a game now. They come along with doomsday threads or with glorifying ones, both of which don#t really help someone to actually know what the game will be like.
I'm really sorry if you misunderstood me, or if I failed to bring my point across, but all I really try to do, is make people judge the game when it is released, not before. Oh, and of course I try to give information I have, which isn't much.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
P.S. Id also like to add, how silly will these naysayers look if theyre all going crazy with their predictions of doom, and no one responds to them? Its reminiscent of those crazy guys who carry around end of the world signs written on piece of cardboard. By even arguing with these guys you are giving them stock.
let them look crazy bythemselves, you wont have to lift a finger to do so.
And to you naysayers, keep it up, you always have to question everything, its the responsibility of savvy consumers. just try not to go too crazy, because the sky isnt always falling. ;')
Well i dont have any AOC material and i think this is a pretty lame topic to rant on.Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.
We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
P.S. Id also like to add, how silly will these naysayers look if theyre all going crazy with their predictions of doom, and no one responds to them? Its reminiscent of those crazy guys who carry around end of the world signs written on piece of cardboard. By even arguing with these guys you are giving them stock.
let them look crazy bythemselves, you wont have to lift a finger to do so.
Point well taken. Yes, it is certainly a way to ignore those people. Maybe I'm doing the wrong thing by replying to some of them (some, I have given up on. <.<).
That being said, I'm still going to contribute in this Forum, but I might cut back a little. *shrug* But hey, where would be the fun if no one talked back? ^_^ Sometimes mind you.
Edit: Also, I had to make this last post because I'm up to 250 now! Hooray me!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
In a wonderful mature world that might happen, this isnt one of those. And MMORPG.com certainly isnt one of those.If there were not people who come on to a board simply to bash a game that they have no intension of playing (not saying this is you, just saying that this happens alot) then diehard fanbois would not have anything to jump all diehard on.
Did AOC take some Classes out of the game while in BETA, they absolutely did. But if the classes were not working as they wanted them to dont you think that BETA is where this should have been done?
And yes they could have put in a bunch of time reworking these classes so they could stay at 14 but they felt that by merging the skills of say, the Lich, into the Necro they made the Necro much more appealing. I really dont see a problem with this. 12 is enough classes for launch.
There are things that i am worried about with Conan, like how fast they say the leveling is going to be, but haveing 12 classes instead of 14 is not one of them. It certainly isnt a "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!" worthy problem.
I think perhaps sir, I didnt make my point clear enough. My point is that the folks who are sporting all these AoC related themes are the same ones who consistantly defend the game, and usually at the cost of someone elses dignity on the grounds they simply are concerned or disagree with them.We all have our eyes on the prize here, and I think even the naysayers would love to see Conan live up to what theyre promising. So you can do one of two things...
Rant and rave, belittle and bash, and froth at the mouth insulting people you dont know for such a small reason..........................or
Sit back relax, have a little confidence in your game, let the game prove them wrong, save yourself some energy and ignore the naysayers, theyre not worth your time as a true fan of this game.
personally i think youll all be doing the would be community of this game a huge favor by going with the latter.
In a wonderful mature world that might happen, this isnt one of those. And MMORPG.com certainly isnt one of those.If there were not people who come on to a board simply to bash a game that they have no intension of playing (not saying this is you, just saying that this happens alot) then diehard fanbois would not have anything to jump all diehard on.
Then again, just giving up, rolling over to die without so much as even trying to better a situation, well thats the silliest thing ive ever heard.
Why stop at double the classes? Heck, I'd like to see AoC have 113 classes. Who's with me? I mean, more options the better, right? What fun 113 classes! Just imagine all the content that the devs would never have time to implement! Oh the joy of the constant balance, nerf, FoM class battles. I can taste the elation on my tongue. I mean, let's get real. We all know that every developer currently employed by any company is a lazy bastard, and that they easily could put out more content if they weren't so lazy or incompetent. On top of that, I'm entirely confident in my opinion to judge gaming companies and the scoudrel developers working for them because I have a two year degree in HTML programming from my local community college.
Damn, I'm not even a supporter of AoC and you naysayers piss me off.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
How much of an issue is the class merging though?
Case A: We didn't know anything about the classes. They introduced 1 class of each archetype adding 2 more as time passed by. All information regarding merges or deletions was never made public to the audience before the game launch. Some classes that were presented at launch were not even visible in beta. Game goes live with 12 classes.
Case B: 20 classes were announced in the 4 archetypes. As time passed by 2 of each archetype was merged into the remaining 3, leaving 3 classes per archetype. All info regarding the merges was made available to internal beta testers at fist, closed beta testers later on and open beta testers in the end. Game goes live with 12 classes.
What's the difference for us gamers playing the live game? The only difference between those two cases is that information is kept hidden until the very last moment, while in the second case too much information is presented.
For me the topic of this thread is a non-issue. We will get to play the live game, not the beta. Betas can be used for a lot of things, experimentation among them. Betas should not be used to fund the game (go live with an unfinished project). If it had 3 classes, the gameplay would be judged according to those. If it had 50 classes, it would be judged again under the same light. It will have 12. Same deal.
The big deal is whether the classes available at game launch are fun, this will make or break a game. Not if some of them got axed or merged.
Even WAR dev's consider class deletion an option:
SourceI personally think, the more classes, the harder to balance. And since AoC is a lot about PvP I think class balance is important.
Also, I don't get why people are so upset about that change. It's not like they took out all the caster-type classes or something...
Merging of two of the classes will NOT ruin the game for me (plus I am sure we will see more classes in expansion(s)). After the merge we have 4 archetypes each with 3 classes, the variety is still there and I kind of like the fact that each archetype has equal number of classes now.