Mythos is introducing looting pvp and has pve and pvp permadeath,so some devs still like that style,but it also has the option to not take part in any pvp and carry on after death if you wish.Perhaps a happy medium?
I cant imagine very expensive mainstream games being made with griefing mechanics any time soon,why would you want lots of potential players driven away by dribbling morons who corpse camp and trash talk?And yes it would happen,any game with open pvp attracts every kind of simpleton who fancies himself a bit of an online badass and thinks its manly to play a game on hard mode. Im a big pvp fan,and i dont want to pay money to play a game with people like that,its like lowering standards and paying for it.
Mythos may end up being polluted with runescape kiddies looking for their ganking fix,which would be a real shame.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
OK here is one of the main reasons that you are not going to find many games liek this and no mainstream games liek this anymore. At first this type of game is entertaining because for the most part everyone is on equal footing and PvP is somewhat equal, as these types of games progress new people come in or classes get rerolled and there i now a level and gear/ skill disparity between players inevitable there were some people that suked at PvP or got ganked a lot and there are also douchebags that find it entertaining to gank lowbies but would never fight someone their level because they would ahve a chance of losing. As this environment progresses noobs get sick of being ganked and quit griefers get bored because they no longer have a large player base to grief and quit and that leaves the few people that truely know what ffa PvP is about and that is a small audience not enough to keep a MMO above water or in the profit zone. That is why most FFA pvp games are F2P and ultimately craptastic or micropayment games.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It does NOT take a genius to figure out that this is NOT what most people enjoy. Don't expect any AAA games will cater to your niche preferences. Well, EQ is a lot less popular than the more casual oriented games, isn't it?
{ Mod Edit } Nowadays theres no game with good PvE and good PvP mixed. Hell, even World of Warcraft has bad PvE when compared to past games.
Aren't we bitter? I suppose it is expected for someone whose gaming preference is on the margins. You can bitch and moan as much as you want and complain how unfair that WOW is getting its 10M customers and no developer "gets" your game.
You just don't get it. World of Warcraft is not an MMORPG. You haven't played a real MMORPG, your crappy game stole my and countless other players genre, its turned into something thats far from what it used to be. It'd be like if Real Time Strategy games suddenly died out because they were all turning into savage-like games, but without the option of becoming a commander. Or better yet if first person shooters suddenly stopped allowing you to aim freely and required you to click on a target and press a button and watch the target get attacked. These newer games are not MMORPGs. They are a de-evolution of the genre. Its the dumbing down of games on an epic scale.
Most people who enjoyed Asherons Call now prefer WoW.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
Why are you asking us? Why aren't you asking this question in the Darkfall forums? I believe they want what you want.
There's already cake for you(MUDs) but you want to be a little piggy and eat gourmet cake(Quality commercial graphical MMOs) with crappy icing(PvP looting)
Too bad for you nobody else wants the crap icing on their gourmet cake so you're stuck eating MUD cake. So have it and eat it... and most of it is free.
you ate all the cake faster than the cook could make them(the rest of the player base), since the cook couldn't get any for himself he stopped baking(the player bases cash).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
What if after Halo had been released, some 5 - 6 years later, a company released Wolfenstein 3D. Thats what this is like, we had Halo, and then Wolfenstein 3D was released and for some reason people thought itw as the greatest thing in the world and decided that no game like Halo should be made again because its not popular enough. This is whats happening here, we're seeing a downgrade. Downgrade is bad.
What if after Halo had been released, some 5 - 6 years later, a company released Wolfenstein 3D. Thats what this is like, we had Halo, and then Wolfenstein 3D was released and for some reason people thought itw as the greatest thing in the world and decided that no game like Halo should be made again because its not popular enough. This is whats happening here, we're seeing a downgrade. Downgrade is bad.
Last I checked, the industry wasn't calling Scottc from MMORPG.com to find out what kind of games he likes and then basing all their business models on it. You're in the minority of consumers for the industry. This doesn't make you better than them, elite, or anything else. I realize you believe that there's millions of people looking for your ideal gaming experience just like you...but there's not.
Surprised I'm the first on this. Come to EVE, someone there will be glad to podkill you until your eyes bleed.
Sadly though the gameplay won't appeal to you, it's not a twitch game. Sadly the community won't appeal to you because the majority of people don't go out of their to make enemies by being verbally abusive to strangers, because in a mature PvP environment there is always someone stronger than you, and if they aren't then they'll bring friends. And while you can't podkill you can effectively trap a person in a spacestation for as long as you can maintain the camp.
You are looking for a very niche game, since a game like the PvP Servers on EQ will never be made again. Having to throw all of your gear into bags while travelling or standing around was a royal pain. Even the one sided Bounty Hunter to Jedi PvP on SWG, while having a tremendious penalty, didn't have actual permadeath shortly into the mechanics of the game.
1) PvP is not a "griefing mechanic". I could just as easily "grief" someone in a non-pvp game by stealing their kills, agro'ing to them etc. Griefing is a player choice, not a game mechanic.
2) Wtf is up with "turning back the clock" comments. A computer game isn't so different from a book or movie. There is no one continuing trend that excludes all previous genres from being produced. Just because something is currently popular does not mean all future games have to just copy off of it.
3) FPS are NOT MMOs. Every PvP thread I see on these forums mentions FPS. I don't even know how someone can think that a PvP MMO could be replaced by an FPS. The only thing that they have in common is that you kill other players. That is it. Or do you really think that UO and Quake are practically the same thing?
New games have made a consistent effort to escape from the Griefing Community. I see no reason to get "retro" with that aspect of gaming.
Teenagers suck.
I don't care what you people playing when you were 13 at school. No one does. 13 year olds can't afford to buy games, and most adults really don't get their kicks from the same antics.
I'm sorry but those really weren't the glory days and the only other people who were enjoying it were 13 too. Adults tend to have a more tolerant approach to other people than teenagers. If you don't all want to play the same game as me, it's not my job to run around killing you until you do. We like games that are inclusive that allow for all our tastes to co-exist in one game. Not just one particular niche area of the game to run around shitting on everyone else.
All those WoW players who complain about the kiddies and log out during the after school period, they all played played AC too, and the didn't like you ruining their game.
We want to kill each other, but that's not all we want to do, and we don't want to do it all the time. Yes a little PvP gets the blood racing. Those little heart in your mouth moments are great. But I don't need to have my character destroyed to build that tension. I don't need to have the fruits of 6 months grinding at risk to find that thrill. I can get it from a 3 minute belly crawl in America's Army. I can get that thrill every 5 minutes in any PvP game on the market.
There are other "risks" and "penalties" that a game can use to generate tension that don't screw up the RPG aspects of my games.
Frankly, character developer > PvP. It is a more enjoyable factor in the game. PvP is now, and has always been, an afterthought. If you can't handle RPG games, don't play them.
1) PvP is not a "griefing mechanic". I could just as easily "grief" someone in a non-pvp game by stealing their kills, agro'ing to them etc. Griefing is a player choice, not a game mechanic. 2) Wtf is up with "turning back the clock" comments. A computer game isn't so different from a book or movie. There is no one continuing trend that excludes all previous genres from being produced. Just because something is currently popular does not mean all future games have to just copy off of it. 3) FPS are NOT MMOs. Every PvP thread I see on these forums mentions FPS. I don't even know how someone can think that a PvP MMO could be replaced by an FPS. The only thing that they have in common is that you kill other players. That is it. Or do you really think that UO and Quake are practically the same thing? { Mod Edit }
there's a difference between fighting each other like in WoW(pure fun: something to do, and mess around with), fighting each other how forum warriors/hardcories want(delusional, predatory, purposeless), and fighting each other in a player controlled world(purposeful territory control, market control, political control: EvE, Wurm).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
New games have made a consistent effort to escape from the Griefing Community. I see no reason to get "retro" with that aspect of gaming.
Its funny because games that try to escape grief actually end up protecting the griefers. What happens when someone steals your cloudsong? You can't do jack shit about it. You can't do jack shit when someone loots all the epics on the instance boss. In a PvP game you and your clan can make sure that players game life is shit. Yeah thats right, you have consequences in a PvP game for your actions.
Teenagers suck. I don't care what you people playing when you were 13 at school. No one does. 13 year olds can't afford to buy games, and most adults really don't get their kicks from the same antics. I'm sorry but those really weren't the glory days and the only other people who were enjoying it were 13 too. Adults tend to have a more tolerant approach to other people than teenagers.
Many people played the games of the past like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online when they were adults. Those who played the games when they were younger are still looking for a game thats as exciting and interesting as those games we used to play. A lot of the people on the Darkfall forums are over the age of 18.
If you don't all want to play the same game as me, it's not my job to run around killing you until you do. We like games that are inclusive that allow for all our tastes to co-exist in one game. Not just one particular niche area of the game to run around shitting on everyone else.
Its nice to know that people like you have tastes that consist of extreme amounts of repetition and limited gameplay.
All those WoW players who complain about the kiddies and log out during the after school period, they all played played AC too, and the didn't like you ruining their game.
Excuse me? Ruining their game? The devs consistently catered to the white servers for Asheron's Call. Yet Darktide continued to be the most popular server and in the end now, it still maintains a higher player count than all the other servers. Whoa... but wait, look at that, Asheron's Call managed to cater to both PvE players with superior content, and yet it also provided PvPers with something that they enjoyed. Do you know how they did that? They seperated the PvE and PvP servers. Unfortunately for us PvPers, devs that make PvP servers now seem to be making a bastardized version of PvP for PvE players. PvP worlds are supposed to be harsh, but in every game that has them, they're very mild and basically equivalent to the white servers PKLite in Asheron's Call. Why do you carebears need to have bastardized half-assed PK worlds when you have PK Arenas and duel functionality on your PvE servers?
We want to kill each other, but that's not all we want to do, and we don't want to do it all the time. Yes a little PvP gets the blood racing. Those little heart in your mouth moments are great.
You don't have to kill each other all the time. Why do you assume that PvP servers are a 24/7 killfest? does a PvPer not quest? I loved questing in Asheron's Call. We also have to advance our characters, we have to get loot. We even enjoy killing each other from time to time. We're not so different. We just prefer that we remain at a constant risk as it makes the game far more exciting.
But I don't need to have my character destroyed to build that tension.
Your character doesn't have to be destroyed when you die. Don't you think its an issue of design that your character relies so heavily on his equipment? It seems like in most of the modern grind games your character is his equipment. Without it you are nothing. It should help you, not make you. When you die, you don't have to drop everything, even I consider that extreme, but I'll take it because an extreme like that game will give me more freedom than any PvE focused game. Asheron's Call had you drop your most expensive items on death, so you could protect your valued items by carrying high value junk items.
I don't need to have the fruits of 6 months grinding at risk to find that thrill. I can get it from a 3 minute belly crawl in America's Army. I can get that thrill every 5 minutes in any PvP game on the market.
Your comparing a PvP MMORPG to America's Army shows that you have probably never played one. Playing a PvP game on a massive scale is far different from jumping into a first person shooter where nothing you do matters past the round you're in. PvP MMORPGs are about consequences. You can't get away with something like stealing and scamming, because the players can affect you. They are what MMORPGs truly are about, interacting with an online world and helping to shape it. In PvP MMORPGs players have the ability to become well known, they can become feared, or honored.
There are other "risks" and "penalties" that a game can use to generate tension that don't screw up the RPG aspects of my games. Frankly, character developer > PvP. It is a more enjoyable factor in the game. PvP is now, and has always been, an afterthought. If you can't handle RPG games, don't play them.
I'm glad we can agree somewhere. PvP is an afterthought. PvP MMORPGs aren't really about the PvP, they're about the freedom. The freedom should appeal to absolutely everyone, and it baffles my mind as to why it doesn't. The only conclusion I can come to is that you guys all hate freedom. I mean hell, on the Darkfall forums we have people of every political affiliation you can think of, libertarians, socialists, republicans, democrats, anarchists, we have Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, there is constant debate of all kinds on the forums. With all the disagree that goes on there, how is it that these people can all agree that the concept of freedom in video games is a good thing?
Its funny because games that try to escape grief actually end up protecting the griefers. .....
I just set my server to eject them. And they are gone. Poof! Automatically forever. Poof! They login, they grief they log out forever, moved along to annoy someone else by robotic decree.
A lot of the people on the Darkfall forums are over the age of 18......
Lol.
Excuse me? Ruining their game?..
Yes. As soon as school kicks out, all the adults log out for 3 hours. Happens on every online game, always has.
You don't have to kill each other all the time. Why do you assume that PvP servers are a 24/7 killfest? does a PvPer not quest? I loved questing in Asheron's Call. We also have to advance our characters, we have to get loot. We even enjoy killing each other from time to time. We're not so different. We just prefer that we remain at a constant risk as it makes the game far more exciting.
The thing about being exposed to constant risk, is that you can never relax. People enjoy relaxation. They enjoy it in their games too. Every moment does not have to be an adrenalin fueled crisis. I enjoy those moments, but they aren't the only ones I enjoy. Games like MMO's require diversity. They need to cater to every element in order to fill a server of 1,000's. If all you make is teenyfest you won't fill a server.
In this case, the "freedom" I seek is the freedom to not be ganked if I'm not in the mood.
A game does not require risk, constant or otherwise to be fun. A game isn't more fun for including risk. Risk can work well as a game device. Why be so fanatic about it? It's teenagers disease. The unwillingness to accomdate other peoples preferences. The inability to relax.
Consentual risk is the best option. People who want risk can get it, people who don't or who don't want it on Tuesday night after working late then coming home and fighting with the wife because the dog is dead, or they just aren't in the mood, don't have to have it. And yet all can play together.
Don't you think its an issue of design that your character relies so heavily on his equipment?
Equipment. Upgrading getting and enhancing equipment has been a mainstay of RPG games since they were invented. It's a big part of D&D and all the games that have come thereafter. This is the formula known as "RPG". In order to design an RPG game you need to include it.
I play plenty of games where equipment is not an issue in multiplayer, but none of them RPG's.
As I said earlier PvP is an afterthought. If you want serious PvP without the design issues, play a game that was made specifically for PvP. RPG's aren't really well suited for it.
Your comparing a PvP MMORPG to America's Army shows that you have probably never played one.
You caught me out there. I've never actually played an MMO. (Or America's Army). I'd be very surprised if anyone who frequents this forum actually has.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
QFT. That was the way it was done in UO, back when crafting was cool. Get some crafter friends to make a bunch of decent ( but monetarily worthless ) armor and weapons while the good stuff got stored in the bank.
The only way the PvP/PvE debate will ever be settled is when developers realize that there are more than one playerbase with more than one taste in gaming. Every mmorpg should have a seperate server for the PvP'ers. Yes, they will running that server for a very small group of people compared to the PvErs, but both sides can have what they want. Except the poor griefers who think PvErs should have to be subjected to PvP solely for the griefers' enjoyment.
As some others in other threads have said, alot of us PvErs are tired of having to deal with the constant nerfing/buffing/balancing of our characters because the PvPers are crying about each other doing more damage. Take for instance SWG and to a smaller extent Anarchy Online for just two examples. Both have had so much balancing/nerfing/buffing that by the time things are done, the players are all stronger than the mobs because they're having to be balanced against each other instead of balanced with the game world, so then mobs have to all be raised in stats, only to have the PvPers once again crying for the nerf/buff bat.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
It sounds like that game was poorly designed. Allow me to inform you about Asheron's Call system, because AC did a lot of things very well. In Asheron's Call on the Darktide server or if you went red on a non PK server, if you were killed by another PK, you would drop several items. The higher level you were, the more items you would drop. The items picked to drop would be the ones of the highest value in your inventory. So if you wanted to not drop your nice items, you would buy or find lots of higher value junk items, and those would drop instead. Everybody carried their nice items in this game, and unless they were pissing lots of people off and thus being hunted down all the time to the point where they couldn't even get death items anymore, they usually wouldn't drop any nice items.
Please don't come up with opinions on certain areas of gameplay when you haven't experienced all the aspects of them on the games in the market. All UO's system did was make it so if people wanted to use more powerful items, they'd risk them for an advantage. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'll damn well take full looting over no looting if thats all I can get. In the end, I prefer Asheron's Call's system, as it appealed to PvE and PvP players.
With the immense number of games like World of Warcraft on the market, there is no cake for me. The PvP servers in these games are not PvP servers at all, they don't encourage players to claim land or towns for their clans and they don't encourage world PvP. Why can't I loot someone on death? Its not hardcore to drop a few items on death, its hardcore to have permadeath. I want my fuckin cake. Asheron's Call Darktide was good cake, and I want more. Hell even EQ had decent PvP cake. You dropped shit when you died.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
QFT. That was the way it was done in UO, back when crafting was cool. Get some crafter friends to make a bunch of decent ( but monetarily worthless ) armor and weapons while the good stuff got stored in the bank.
The only way the PvP/PvE debate will ever be settled is when developers realize that there are more than one playerbase with more than one taste in gaming. Every mmorpg should have a seperate server for the PvP'ers. Yes, they will running that server for a very small group of people compared to the PvErs, but both sides can have what they want. Except the poor griefers who think PvErs should have to be subjected to PvP solely for the griefers' enjoyment.
As some others in other threads have said, alot of us PvErs are tired of having to deal with the constant nerfing/buffing/balancing of our characters because the PvPers are crying about each other doing more damage. Take for instance SWG and to a smaller extent Anarchy Online for just two examples. Both have had so much balancing/nerfing/buffing that by the time things are done, the players are all stronger than the mobs because they're having to be balanced against each other instead of balanced with the game world, so then mobs have to all be raised in stats, only to have the PvPers once again crying for the nerf/buff bat.
Once again, I point to Asheron's Call. Popular for its time, maxxing out at around 100,000 subs. AC managed to have a bunch of "white" NPK servers, and one red PK server. Guess which server was the most popular? Yeah, thats right, the PK one. AC has very few players left and the red server still manages to be the most popular. It seems that players continuously move to the red server once they've exhausted all of the games PvE content, as in the end, PvP is all thats left. It's the only content that doesn't grow stale. It always stays interesting when theres something to fight for and someone to fight.
As for characters getting nerfed/buffed, thats because most games are built for PvE with PvP as an afterthought. It would be a hell of a lot easier to balance PvE with the game designed around PvP. Most characters are designed to do ridiculous damage as they get higher and higher level to deal with higher level mobs. What if the mobs were balanced rather than the players?
Comments
Mythos is introducing looting pvp and has pve and pvp permadeath,so some devs still like that style,but it also has the option to not take part in any pvp and carry on after death if you wish.Perhaps a happy medium?
I cant imagine very expensive mainstream games being made with griefing mechanics any time soon,why would you want lots of potential players driven away by dribbling morons who corpse camp and trash talk?And yes it would happen,any game with open pvp attracts every kind of simpleton who fancies himself a bit of an online badass and thinks its manly to play a game on hard mode. Im a big pvp fan,and i dont want to pay money to play a game with people like that,its like lowering standards and paying for it.
Mythos may end up being polluted with runescape kiddies looking for their ganking fix,which would be a real shame.
OK here is one of the main reasons that you are not going to find many games liek this and no mainstream games liek this anymore. At first this type of game is entertaining because for the most part everyone is on equal footing and PvP is somewhat equal, as these types of games progress new people come in or classes get rerolled and there i now a level and gear/ skill disparity between players inevitable there were some people that suked at PvP or got ganked a lot and there are also douchebags that find it entertaining to gank lowbies but would never fight someone their level because they would ahve a chance of losing. As this environment progresses noobs get sick of being ganked and quit griefers get bored because they no longer have a large player base to grief and quit and that leaves the few people that truely know what ffa PvP is about and that is a small audience not enough to keep a MMO above water or in the profit zone. That is why most FFA pvp games are F2P and ultimately craptastic or micropayment games.
You can only have your cake and eat it too if you bake it yourself.
Why are you asking us? Why aren't you asking this question in the Darkfall forums? I believe they want what you want.
There's already cake for you(MUDs) but you want to be a little piggy and eat gourmet cake(Quality commercial graphical MMOs)
with crappy icing(PvP looting)
Too bad for you nobody else wants the crap icing on their gourmet cake so you're stuck eating MUD cake. So have it and eat it... and most of it is free.
Cake is bad for you. It's high in saturated fats and carbs. You should eat a carrot or something.
Pie > cake
you ate all the cake faster than the cook could make them(the rest of the player base), since the cook couldn't get any for himself he stopped baking(the player bases cash).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
What if after Halo had been released, some 5 - 6 years later, a company released Wolfenstein 3D. Thats what this is like, we had Halo, and then Wolfenstein 3D was released and for some reason people thought itw as the greatest thing in the world and decided that no game like Halo should be made again because its not popular enough. This is whats happening here, we're seeing a downgrade. Downgrade is bad.
Last I checked, the industry wasn't calling Scottc from MMORPG.com to find out what kind of games he likes and then basing all their business models on it. You're in the minority of consumers for the industry. This doesn't make you better than them, elite, or anything else. I realize you believe that there's millions of people looking for your ideal gaming experience just like you...but there's not.
Surprised I'm the first on this. Come to EVE, someone there will be glad to podkill you until your eyes bleed.
Sadly though the gameplay won't appeal to you, it's not a twitch game. Sadly the community won't appeal to you because the majority of people don't go out of their to make enemies by being verbally abusive to strangers, because in a mature PvP environment there is always someone stronger than you, and if they aren't then they'll bring friends. And while you can't podkill you can effectively trap a person in a spacestation for as long as you can maintain the camp.
You are looking for a very niche game, since a game like the PvP Servers on EQ will never be made again. Having to throw all of your gear into bags while travelling or standing around was a royal pain. Even the one sided Bounty Hunter to Jedi PvP on SWG, while having a tremendious penalty, didn't have actual permadeath shortly into the mechanics of the game.
Your best odds are in one of the Asian MMO's,
1) PvP is not a "griefing mechanic". I could just as easily "grief" someone in a non-pvp game by stealing their kills, agro'ing to them etc. Griefing is a player choice, not a game mechanic.
2) Wtf is up with "turning back the clock" comments. A computer game isn't so different from a book or movie. There is no one continuing trend that excludes all previous genres from being produced. Just because something is currently popular does not mean all future games have to just copy off of it.
3) FPS are NOT MMOs. Every PvP thread I see on these forums mentions FPS. I don't even know how someone can think that a PvP MMO could be replaced by an FPS. The only thing that they have in common is that you kill other players. That is it. Or do you really think that UO and Quake are practically the same thing?
{ Mod Edit }
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
Whatever else griefing is, it's unwanted.
New games have made a consistent effort to escape from the Griefing Community. I see no reason to get "retro" with that aspect of gaming.
Teenagers suck.
I don't care what you people playing when you were 13 at school. No one does. 13 year olds can't afford to buy games, and most adults really don't get their kicks from the same antics.
I'm sorry but those really weren't the glory days and the only other people who were enjoying it were 13 too. Adults tend to have a more tolerant approach to other people than teenagers. If you don't all want to play the same game as me, it's not my job to run around killing you until you do. We like games that are inclusive that allow for all our tastes to co-exist in one game. Not just one particular niche area of the game to run around shitting on everyone else.
All those WoW players who complain about the kiddies and log out during the after school period, they all played played AC too, and the didn't like you ruining their game.
We want to kill each other, but that's not all we want to do, and we don't want to do it all the time. Yes a little PvP gets the blood racing. Those little heart in your mouth moments are great. But I don't need to have my character destroyed to build that tension. I don't need to have the fruits of 6 months grinding at risk to find that thrill. I can get it from a 3 minute belly crawl in America's Army. I can get that thrill every 5 minutes in any PvP game on the market.
There are other "risks" and "penalties" that a game can use to generate tension that don't screw up the RPG aspects of my games.
Frankly, character developer > PvP. It is a more enjoyable factor in the game. PvP is now, and has always been, an afterthought. If you can't handle RPG games, don't play them.
there's a difference between fighting each other like in WoW(pure fun: something to do, and mess around with), fighting each other how forum warriors/hardcories want(delusional, predatory, purposeless), and fighting each other in a player controlled world(purposeful territory control, market control, political control: EvE, Wurm).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Many people played the games of the past like Asheron's Call and Ultima Online when they were adults. Those who played the games when they were younger are still looking for a game thats as exciting and interesting as those games we used to play. A lot of the people on the Darkfall forums are over the age of 18. Its nice to know that people like you have tastes that consist of extreme amounts of repetition and limited gameplay. Excuse me? Ruining their game? The devs consistently catered to the white servers for Asheron's Call. Yet Darktide continued to be the most popular server and in the end now, it still maintains a higher player count than all the other servers. Whoa... but wait, look at that, Asheron's Call managed to cater to both PvE players with superior content, and yet it also provided PvPers with something that they enjoyed. Do you know how they did that? They seperated the PvE and PvP servers. Unfortunately for us PvPers, devs that make PvP servers now seem to be making a bastardized version of PvP for PvE players. PvP worlds are supposed to be harsh, but in every game that has them, they're very mild and basically equivalent to the white servers PKLite in Asheron's Call. Why do you carebears need to have bastardized half-assed PK worlds when you have PK Arenas and duel functionality on your PvE servers? You don't have to kill each other all the time. Why do you assume that PvP servers are a 24/7 killfest? does a PvPer not quest? I loved questing in Asheron's Call. We also have to advance our characters, we have to get loot. We even enjoy killing each other from time to time. We're not so different. We just prefer that we remain at a constant risk as it makes the game far more exciting. Your character doesn't have to be destroyed when you die. Don't you think its an issue of design that your character relies so heavily on his equipment? It seems like in most of the modern grind games your character is his equipment. Without it you are nothing. It should help you, not make you. When you die, you don't have to drop everything, even I consider that extreme, but I'll take it because an extreme like that game will give me more freedom than any PvE focused game. Asheron's Call had you drop your most expensive items on death, so you could protect your valued items by carrying high value junk items. Your comparing a PvP MMORPG to America's Army shows that you have probably never played one. Playing a PvP game on a massive scale is far different from jumping into a first person shooter where nothing you do matters past the round you're in. PvP MMORPGs are about consequences. You can't get away with something like stealing and scamming, because the players can affect you. They are what MMORPGs truly are about, interacting with an online world and helping to shape it. In PvP MMORPGs players have the ability to become well known, they can become feared, or honored. I'm glad we can agree somewhere. PvP is an afterthought. PvP MMORPGs aren't really about the PvP, they're about the freedom. The freedom should appeal to absolutely everyone, and it baffles my mind as to why it doesn't. The only conclusion I can come to is that you guys all hate freedom. I mean hell, on the Darkfall forums we have people of every political affiliation you can think of, libertarians, socialists, republicans, democrats, anarchists, we have Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, there is constant debate of all kinds on the forums. With all the disagree that goes on there, how is it that these people can all agree that the concept of freedom in video games is a good thing?
If you have to grind to the max level and get the best gear possible just to be competitive, there's something seriously wrong with the game.
I just set my server to eject them. And they are gone. Poof! Automatically forever. Poof! They login, they grief they log out forever, moved along to annoy someone else by robotic decree.
Lol.
Yes. As soon as school kicks out, all the adults log out for 3 hours. Happens on every online game, always has.
The thing about being exposed to constant risk, is that you can never relax. People enjoy relaxation. They enjoy it in their games too. Every moment does not have to be an adrenalin fueled crisis. I enjoy those moments, but they aren't the only ones I enjoy. Games like MMO's require diversity. They need to cater to every element in order to fill a server of 1,000's. If all you make is teenyfest you won't fill a server.
In this case, the "freedom" I seek is the freedom to not be ganked if I'm not in the mood.
A game does not require risk, constant or otherwise to be fun. A game isn't more fun for including risk. Risk can work well as a game device. Why be so fanatic about it? It's teenagers disease. The unwillingness to accomdate other peoples preferences. The inability to relax.
Consentual risk is the best option. People who want risk can get it, people who don't or who don't want it on Tuesday night after working late then coming home and fighting with the wife because the dog is dead, or they just aren't in the mood, don't have to have it. And yet all can play together.
Equipment. Upgrading getting and enhancing equipment has been a mainstay of RPG games since they were invented. It's a big part of D&D and all the games that have come thereafter. This is the formula known as "RPG". In order to design an RPG game you need to include it.
I play plenty of games where equipment is not an issue in multiplayer, but none of them RPG's.
As I said earlier PvP is an afterthought. If you want serious PvP without the design issues, play a game that was made specifically for PvP. RPG's aren't really well suited for it.
You caught me out there. I've never actually played an MMO. (Or America's Army). I'd be very surprised if anyone who frequents this forum actually has.
Simple, if you eat your cake, you won't have it anymore.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
QFT. That was the way it was done in UO, back when crafting was cool. Get some crafter friends to make a bunch of decent ( but monetarily worthless ) armor and weapons while the good stuff got stored in the bank.I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
The only way the PvP/PvE debate will ever be settled is when developers realize that there are more than one playerbase with more than one taste in gaming. Every mmorpg should have a seperate server for the PvP'ers. Yes, they will running that server for a very small group of people compared to the PvErs, but both sides can have what they want. Except the poor griefers who think PvErs should have to be subjected to PvP solely for the griefers' enjoyment.
As some others in other threads have said, alot of us PvErs are tired of having to deal with the constant nerfing/buffing/balancing of our characters because the PvPers are crying about each other doing more damage. Take for instance SWG and to a smaller extent Anarchy Online for just two examples. Both have had so much balancing/nerfing/buffing that by the time things are done, the players are all stronger than the mobs because they're having to be balanced against each other instead of balanced with the game world, so then mobs have to all be raised in stats, only to have the PvPers once again crying for the nerf/buff bat.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
It sounds like that game was poorly designed. Allow me to inform you about Asheron's Call system, because AC did a lot of things very well. In Asheron's Call on the Darktide server or if you went red on a non PK server, if you were killed by another PK, you would drop several items. The higher level you were, the more items you would drop. The items picked to drop would be the ones of the highest value in your inventory. So if you wanted to not drop your nice items, you would buy or find lots of higher value junk items, and those would drop instead. Everybody carried their nice items in this game, and unless they were pissing lots of people off and thus being hunted down all the time to the point where they couldn't even get death items anymore, they usually wouldn't drop any nice items.I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
Please don't come up with opinions on certain areas of gameplay when you haven't experienced all the aspects of them on the games in the market. All UO's system did was make it so if people wanted to use more powerful items, they'd risk them for an advantage. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'll damn well take full looting over no looting if thats all I can get. In the end, I prefer Asheron's Call's system, as it appealed to PvE and PvP players.
It's real simple. All those games that had PVP looting were incredibly unpopular. Most people don't want to lose items they spent a lot of time acquiring because they got ganked by some wanker 30 levels higher than they are.
It might work in games with radically different itemization than we currently have, but then again, that would also reduce the value of looting other players as well.
Have you actually played a game that allows you to lose an item on death and be killed by anyone at any time?
QFT. That was the way it was done in UO, back when crafting was cool. Get some crafter friends to make a bunch of decent ( but monetarily worthless ) armor and weapons while the good stuff got stored in the bank.I have and you know what I remember? All the nice items being kept in the bank due to fear of losing them to a gank squad.
The only way the PvP/PvE debate will ever be settled is when developers realize that there are more than one playerbase with more than one taste in gaming. Every mmorpg should have a seperate server for the PvP'ers. Yes, they will running that server for a very small group of people compared to the PvErs, but both sides can have what they want. Except the poor griefers who think PvErs should have to be subjected to PvP solely for the griefers' enjoyment.
As some others in other threads have said, alot of us PvErs are tired of having to deal with the constant nerfing/buffing/balancing of our characters because the PvPers are crying about each other doing more damage. Take for instance SWG and to a smaller extent Anarchy Online for just two examples. Both have had so much balancing/nerfing/buffing that by the time things are done, the players are all stronger than the mobs because they're having to be balanced against each other instead of balanced with the game world, so then mobs have to all be raised in stats, only to have the PvPers once again crying for the nerf/buff bat.
Once again, I point to Asheron's Call. Popular for its time, maxxing out at around 100,000 subs. AC managed to have a bunch of "white" NPK servers, and one red PK server. Guess which server was the most popular? Yeah, thats right, the PK one. AC has very few players left and the red server still manages to be the most popular. It seems that players continuously move to the red server once they've exhausted all of the games PvE content, as in the end, PvP is all thats left. It's the only content that doesn't grow stale. It always stays interesting when theres something to fight for and someone to fight.As for characters getting nerfed/buffed, thats because most games are built for PvE with PvP as an afterthought. It would be a hell of a lot easier to balance PvE with the game designed around PvP. Most characters are designed to do ridiculous damage as they get higher and higher level to deal with higher level mobs. What if the mobs were balanced rather than the players?