gameloading, You've been a tool ever since I've seen you on these boards. Have you even played Lineage yourself? I had the best gear possible via legitimate means and I spent 3-4 hours every day playing the market for 4+ months. Don't give me this crap about "screaming ebay". The funny thing is, Lineage's gear goes like this. S grade = highest levels
A grade = next highest
B grade = etc
C grade = etc
D grade = etc
non-grade = etc Each subset of classes had a certain armor set available at each grade. I had A grade, it cost circa 150 million adena for that. Don't give me this crap about better gear or not. Most people had on the same exact gear. Any gladiator who could wear A grade had on a certain set with certain weapons. I had that gear because i played the market. The game is setup in such a ridiculous way that by playing through the game a person wouldn't even be able to afford D grade when they hit level 20. You wouldn't even be close. The botters and the ebayers caused massive inflation that normal playing through the game wouldn't even get close. I know, i played the game. Anyway who said otherwise is flat out lying. If you want, i'll bet you $1,000 USD that you couldn't even afford D grade at average market price if you played from 1-20 straight through normally. To give you an idea of how stupid the developers are and/or how retarded NCsoft is. The game has a natural money sink in soulshots. It allows you to do extra damage. Soulshots on average were pretty expensive to the point where all the gold that dropped from mobs barely gave you any margin over the cost of soulshots. So by playing 1-20, you'd be lucky if you had 200,000 adena at the end. I don't think you'd come close. D grade costs a lot more than that . So Gameloading, i've seen many of your posts you're one of those guys who makes unproven claims "You scream ebay at anyone who had better gear than you", you don't even understand the mechanism of the game "lineage 2" because if you did you'd realize that i'm 100% factual. If anyone played lineage 2 legitimately it was me. I know what it takes to afford gear and to do it without ebay. Affording gear in Lineage 2 is like you trying to afford a new BMW working for minimum wage (reward from killing mobs) and paying $500 in rent a month (soulshot cost). Now that I think of it, you really don't need to ebay, you can run around without using soulshots and trying to afford better gear until you realize it'll take you like 40 hours a level. Or you could be like me and spend more time trying to play the market than actually leveling. I used to check market prices in the morning, afternoon, evening, i set up an in-game business to try to make money as well and I eventually earned everything i owned. Cryomatrix
Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with this post? I have never seen someone write such a long post and STILL not post any evidence for his arguement.
The game has one million subscribers worldwide, and you're trying to argue that most people of those 1 million subscribers use ebay? Please. Stay realistic.
Lineage 2 has never been about playing alone, It's always been about clans and alliances. So no, a level 20 can't afford full D grade gear by himself. That's not how the game was designed. Lineage 2 is not a singleplayer MMO such as WoW or Everquest 2.
In fact, when I started playing L2 for the 2nd time (New account, thus without my old high level char) I played with Torak for a while, and even Torak, Who wasn't that much higher level then me, was able to provide me with D gear and soulshots at level 20.
Just look at your post, you accuse hundreds of thousand of people using Ebay. You better damn well bring some evidence the next time you make that accusation.
Your arguement is actually quite funny. You claim that "I eventually earned anything i owned" but at the same time you accusse others of ebaying (without a shred of evidence ofcourse). As if you're the only one capable of doing it legally.
You're staying Factual? No. You're not. You posted that it's difficult to get a foothold in Lineage 2, which is true, but you posted zero evidence that the community exists out of ebayers.
L2 was good in it's day, I'm waiting for L3 whenever it will be, but I wouldn't recommend new people starting on it now, it's just too dependant on levels and getting up there is tough, not because of the time, but because of jerks killing you or your mobs.
Anyways, OP, Vanguard is a very good choice for PvE these days, or EQ2, though I prefer VG. Just don't race through it, there is plenty of content though you can't do it all before you out level it, and once you do hit 50 the raids are good, but there is no sign of more content on the horizon. So make it last!
In fact, when I started playing L2 for the 2nd time (New account, thus without my old high level char) I played with Torak for a while, and even Torak, Who wasn't that much higher level then me, was able to provide me with D gear and soulshots at level 20.
Hey.... that reminds me.....wheres my armor at?
Whata mean "even Torak" lol... There's a "how to make adena" guide on the L2 board writen by me that the mod razorback posted on my behalf once he looked it over. Between you , my wife and siver, you guys bled me dry on a regular basis. Ah the good old days, squabbling with arsehats outside of Dion for hunting spots....
I know torak very well. He spent hours and hours playing the market to afford his gear and was in the level 40's without a full set of C gear. Most of the people I played with just sat there and leveled. Also, I'm not accusing hundreds of thousands, I have no idea about the korean side and I'm only talking about the US side.
When I joined a person wanted to lend D gear and all. He was a prolific ebayer too. Do all people ebay? of course not, but I think a majority (more than 50%) on the US servers probably do. The game mechanics are too ripe for people not to ebay. My point isn't baseless, let me flesh it out for you.
Theory: Majority of lineage 2 players ebay. Evidence (1): very difficult economic mechanism. Almost impossible to play through and have enough money to afford gear and level at a reasonable pace. (I had to borrow money 30 million adena (from said ebayer, didn't know it at the time). I started my investment that way and was able to get up to over 200 million after a few months.
Evidence (2): I don't know of many people who actually played the market in my clan or the other clan I joined. Evidence (3): I spent 3-4 hours every day for four months playing the market going to every buy/sell shop to garner prices, i had my toon up 24/7. Evidence (4): Human nature: Steroid issue in baseball, cheaters throughout my education, people cheating on OPEN BOOK EXAMS. Ubiquitious nature of people being shady when being anonymous is your friend.
Conclusion: Based on the super difficult economy, the bots driving up the prices, the game mechanism not really allowing you to make money with the soulshots. Human nature especially in very competitive atmospheres lead me to believe a majority of Lineage 2 players ebayed at some point. i think i made a poll once asking about the percentage of people that ebayed, if i remember correctly, (it was over 1.5 years ago), it came out to be around 20-30% of responders. Now if people ebayed on WoW, they'll definitely be ebaying on lineage 2:) .
Gameloadings mechanism,
Theory: Cryo screams ebay at those who have better gear than him.
Evidence: A post where i claim "lineage 2 is full of ebayers" which is clearly a hyperbolic statement and would probably mean closer to the majority.
Truth 1: Cryo had the best gear. Truth 2: Cryo earned his gear legitimately and was intimately aware of what it took.
Cryomatrix
*note: I think torak had more than one character and that may have been his second or third. *note: That 30 million I borrowed I used it to purchase C grade and was left with 10 million for investment I used to pick up the gold from all the people that didn't care to pick it up . . .
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Lol Cryomatrix saying you cannot even afford D-grade at 20.. you do realize you can pretty much get free D-grade armor from just joining an academy of a clan right...? Anyway, I was able to afford D/C/B before I even got there, the only trouble I had was when A-grade in which I just stayed in Giran for a week with overnight shops to get. A-grade is trouble, no doubt of that, but people can make dwarf alts and get the money or if you are like me who only has time to level one character, just stay in Giran.
Note: I don't play Lineage 2 anymore and I do see faults in it, especially the intense grind. But saying things like people need to ebay is obviously false. Now botting is another issue, the game has a huge grind and many people do go to botting. All I can say is, don't get mad if you get banned for that, it is their own faults.
Lol Cryomatrix saying you cannot even afford D-grade at 20.. you do realize you can pretty much get free D-grade armor from just joining an academy of a clan right...? Anyway, I was able to afford D/C/B before I even got there, the only trouble I had was when A-grade in which I just stayed in Giran for a week with overnight shops to get. A-grade is trouble, no doubt of that, but people can make dwarf alts and get the money or if you are like me who only has time to level one character, just stay in Giran. Note: I don't play Lineage 2 anymore and I do see faults in it, especially the intense grind. But saying things like people need to ebay is obviously false. Now botting is another issue, the game has a huge grind and many people do go to botting. All I can say is, don't get mad if you get banned for that, it is their own faults.
I agree with the point that people don't NEED to buy currency. No one NEEDS to do anything in an MMO.
Several years ago when I was in my hard core L2 mode I think the reason I stuck it out was because the game challenged me to beat it. Thats something most MMOs are unable to do. If you can survive the grind, the cut throat politics and money grind of L2, a regular MMO is like eating styrofoam. No challenge, no choice, no consequence of action, no point. Just grind away. All of these other MMOs are hollow shells and are nothing to Aden.
In hindsight, I would probably just break down and drop 20 bucks on gold and be done with it. lol
Thats why I shy away from MMOs and judge them so harshly lately, its all grind and no fun. The new games don't even challenge anymore. Whats the point of games like Vanguard, EQII, LotR or WoW's pathetic attempt at creating a virtual world and many others? Grind until you are level cap so you can do a raid? Please.
Gameloading, I know torak very well. He spent hours and hours playing the market to afford his gear and was in the level 40's without a full set of C gear. Most of the people I played with just sat there and leveled. Also, I'm not accusing hundreds of thousands, I have no idea about the korean side and I'm only talking about the US side. When I joined a person wanted to lend D gear and all. He was a prolific ebayer too. Do all people ebay? of course not, but I think a majority (more than 50%) on the US servers probably do. The game mechanics are too ripe for people not to ebay. My point isn't baseless, let me flesh it out for you. Theory: Majority of lineage 2 players ebay.
Evidence (1): very difficult economic mechanism. Almost impossible to play through and have enough money to afford gear and level at a reasonable pace. (I had to borrow money 30 million adena (from said ebayer, didn't know it at the time). I started my investment that way and was able to get up to over 200 million after a few months. Evidence (2): I don't know of many people who actually played the market in my clan or the other clan I joined.
Evidence (3): I spent 3-4 hours every day for four months playing the market going to every buy/sell shop to garner prices, i had my toon up 24/7.
Evidence (4): Human nature: Steroid issue in baseball, cheaters throughout my education, people cheating on OPEN BOOK EXAMS. Ubiquitious nature of people being shady when being anonymous is your friend. Conclusion: Based on the super difficult economy, the bots driving up the prices, the game mechanism not really allowing you to make money with the soulshots. Human nature especially in very competitive atmospheres lead me to believe a majority of Lineage 2 players ebayed at some point. i think i made a poll once asking about the percentage of people that ebayed, if i remember correctly, (it was over 1.5 years ago), it came out to be around 20-30% of responders. Now if people ebayed on WoW, they'll definitely be ebaying on lineage 2:) . Gameloadings mechanism, Theory: Cryo screams ebay at those who have better gear than him. Evidence: A post where i claim "lineage 2 is full of ebayers" which is clearly a hyperbolic statement and would probably mean closer to the majority. Truth 1: Cryo had the best gear.
Truth 2: Cryo earned his gear legitimately and was intimately aware of what it took. Cryomatrix *note: I think torak had more than one character and that may have been his second or third.
*note: That 30 million I borrowed I used it to purchase C grade and was left with 10 million for investment
I used to pick up the gold from all the people that didn't care to pick it up . . .
I see you don't really understand what the term evidence means. just because it's difficult to get a foothold in the market does not mean that people jump all over Ebay. In fact I find it much more logical that if a person finds a game to difficult...they quit, simple as that. They move on to a less difficult mmorpg, such as WoW. You don't have anything to back up your arguement. No numbers, polls, surveys, nothing.
Now you claim the "Majority of people ebay". Again, nothing to back up that acccusation.
p.s Torak: No offense meant on the "Even Torak" part, It was a reference to the level of your characters
Guys, this topic has been made because the user is intrested in the gameplay aspects of the 3 different games, not to discuss ebaying and item costs in lineage2. So can we please get this back on track, and keep the thread from going off-topic again.
The OP stated a good PvP experience, not something you will find in L2, maybe in DAoC, and definitely not in a Sword of the New World. And SotNW does have a forum here, http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/forum/721
vanguard was alright. graphics were nice. pvp is lame. not very engaging. lineage 2... superb grind never made it passed 40 daoc dated graphics, never got into it. i know graphics shouldnt mean much but if thats the case go play meridian 59 the mother of all pvp mmos. surprisingly i find myself playing sword of the new world. its free and its awesome. mmorpg doesnt have a dedicated forum for the game... goign to make a post about it.
www.swordofthenewworld.com
Sword of the New World does in fact have a forum here
Vanguard - Very high system requirements, Broken very badly, deserted servers, doesn't look that great for all the aggravation it will put you through. I betaed the game and subscribed for about 2 months (Aug - Sept) Nothing compelling to do but grind 10 rats. The game is a total waste of time and money.
DAoC - Sorta dated, all but the Gareth server are deserted. No low level community, you will log in and pretty much grind out to 50 solo in the catacombs, an instanced dungeon. Some will say thats not true but that is the reality, no one ventures into the world anymore. Once you hit 50 you are going to zerg around with the few remaining hard core players do small scale skirmishing. Nothing like the good old days when the game had a population. I played DAoC for 1 year hard core and resubbed on and off a few times after ToA wrecked the game and killed the community.
L2 - also a dying game, if you can survive the hard core grind and money traps and the cut throat community past 50 up to 60 when the game actually starts, you have a lot of fun with all the drama the players make, skirmishing on weekdays with arsehats trying to off ya and doing sieges on the weekends with hundreds of other players. I played L2 hard core for over a year and resubbed a couple of times.
Of the three, none are really a good choice at this point but if you gotta do one, go Lineage II. You won't make past level 30 or 40 like most but at least when you come to flame it, you can say you tried it.
just my opinion, but if you're just looking to kill some time until war or aoc or something comes out, go daoc.
you like casters, oh. they got casters. they have more variety of classes than the other 2 combined and then some. add in wow and lotro as well daoc still has them beat.
you dont have to play to 50 alone like some might tell ya, its just not true. you can find a guild easy enough, people are still rolling alts, or lower lvl bg' toons. really cool community(at least the hibs and mids, havent lvl'd an alb in 4 years).
you can try a class to 20 or 30, the lvl 20-24 battleground is still pretty active and you can get a little bit of feel for the class. after your first or 2nd run at it, getting to low 20's should take you maybe half a day /played time. you could kill a lot of time just exploring all the classes and specs in this game.
If you don't know anyone in Lineage 2 to help support you, don't even consider it. The playerbase is "mature" and to get to their level while beginning as a noob without help can be a nearly impossible task (taking ebay and botting out of the equation).
It's not something you can play just for "killing" some time while you wait for WAR.
On the other hand, if you play L2 and play it seriously (semi-hardcore), you'll learn the real meaning of "bot" and "ebaying". While at the same time it has the most rewarding pvp endgame, group based (no lone-wolves here).
Anyone who hasn't played Vanguard in the last three months is working off a false judgement, it's nothing like it was at release.
So encourage people who probably paid top dollar at launch who were disappointed to keep feeding 14.95 occasionally "just to see" if it has improved to a satisfactory level? Rewarding the makers of the game over and over just for working on it to bring it to an acceptable and playable state?
You know when Vanguard launched it shot up to close to 200k people playing then it quickly crashed to about 40k within a few months. What about all those people who wasted their money on the "false judgment" that the game they just dropped 50 bucks on was going to at least work? They should continue to feed them a sub fee in good faith it will come along eventually?
Yeah, I tried it in Dec / Jan when they gave out the free 2 or 3 weeks and the improvements were modest at best. Not nearly enough for the year its been, most of the technical issues like falling through the world mesh have not been resolved and to add insult to injury, the last 4 servers are "lightly populated" at best, the gameplay is brain dead grinding on "kill 10 rats", diplomacy is all but forgotten and crafting is better suited to people without a pulse. The devs are now altering the original ideas and making more and more like every other MMO racing you through the levels and adding a bunch of raids for an "endgame". Its a completely pointless exersize in level grinding.
This turkey died the death it deserved. MMOs get one shot at launch, screw that up and they never recover.
Anyone who hasn't played Vanguard in the last three months is working off a false judgement, it's nothing like it was at release.
So encourage people who probably paid top dollar at launch who were disappointed to keep feeding 14.95 occasionally "just to see" if it has improved to a satisfactory level? Rewarding the makers of the game over and over just for working on it to bring it to an acceptable and playable state?
You know when Vanguard launched it shot up to close to 200k people playing then it quickly crashed to about 40k within a few months. What about all those people who wasted their money on the "false judgment" that the game they just dropped 50 bucks on was going to at least work? They should continue to feed them a sub fee in good faith it will come along eventually?
Yeah, I tried it in Dec / Jan when they gave out the free 2 or 3 weeks and the improvements were modest at best. Not nearly enough for the year its been, most of the technical issues like falling through the world mesh have not been resolved and to add insult to injury, the last 4 servers are "lightly populated" at best, the gameplay is brain dead grinding on "kill 10 rats", diplomacy is all but forgotten and crafting is better suited to people without a pulse. The devs are now altering the original ideas and making more and more like every other MMO racing you through the levels and adding a bunch of raids for an "endgame". Its a completely pointless exersize in level grinding.
This turkey died the death it deserved. MMOs get one shot at launch, screw that up and they never recover.
I played through a year of beta, three months at launch and then quit. I came back in September and stayed again until December. It was good for those last three months, prior to that I agree the game was not what was promised and never good enough to be released.
But for someone who's never played it before, it's stable, there aren't many bugs left, the classes have mostly been fixed, PvE combat is fun, dungeon crawling is fun, quests are well written, the content is good, albeit too spread out imo. It will never get over it's bad release, and the servers are top heavy, but it is a good PvE experience now.
It is infinitely more enjoyable PvE experience than Lineage 2 that's for sure. If you had technical issues I suggest you look closer to home, I never fell through the world once in VG, I never had any quest bugs, framerate problems (since the last update) or other technical issues. As for world population, yes it is light at level 1, but any game that is a year or more older is going to have a mature playerbase, Lineage 2 is worst, the only reason you see more people around is cause they are bots.
Seriously, stop condemning it cause you don't like it, other people do like it. And I never recommended anyone stay with it for the whole year, not even I'm daft enough to pay for something that is broken, but it's not broken any more.
gameloading, You've been a tool ever since I've seen you on these boards. Have you even played Lineage yourself? I had the best gear possible via legitimate means and I spent 3-4 hours every day playing the market for 4+ months. Don't give me this crap about "screaming ebay". The funny thing is, Lineage's gear goes like this. S grade = highest levels
A grade = next highest
B grade = etc
C grade = etc
D grade = etc
non-grade = etc Each subset of classes had a certain armor set available at each grade. I had A grade, it cost circa 150 million adena for that. Don't give me this crap about better gear or not. Most people had on the same exact gear. Any gladiator who could wear A grade had on a certain set with certain weapons. I had that gear because i played the market. The game is setup in such a ridiculous way that by playing through the game a person wouldn't even be able to afford D grade when they hit level 20. You wouldn't even be close. The botters and the ebayers caused massive inflation that normal playing through the game wouldn't even get close. I know, i played the game. Anyway who said otherwise is flat out lying. If you want, i'll bet you $1,000 USD that you couldn't even afford D grade at average market price if you played from 1-20 straight through normally. To give you an idea of how stupid the developers are and/or how retarded NCsoft is. The game has a natural money sink in soulshots. It allows you to do extra damage. Soulshots on average were pretty expensive to the point where all the gold that dropped from mobs barely gave you any margin over the cost of soulshots. So by playing 1-20, you'd be lucky if you had 200,000 adena at the end. I don't think you'd come close. D grade costs a lot more than that . So Gameloading, i've seen many of your posts you're one of those guys who makes unproven claims "You scream ebay at anyone who had better gear than you", you don't even understand the mechanism of the game "lineage 2" because if you did you'd realize that i'm 100% factual. If anyone played lineage 2 legitimately it was me. I know what it takes to afford gear and to do it without ebay. Affording gear in Lineage 2 is like you trying to afford a new BMW working for minimum wage (reward from killing mobs) and paying $500 in rent a month (soulshot cost). Now that I think of it, you really don't need to ebay, you can run around without using soulshots and trying to afford better gear until you realize it'll take you like 40 hours a level. Or you could be like me and spend more time trying to play the market than actually leveling. I used to check market prices in the morning, afternoon, evening, i set up an in-game business to try to make money as well and I eventually earned everything i owned. Cryomatrix
Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with this post? I have never seen someone write such a long post and STILL not post any evidence for his arguement.
The game has one million subscribers worldwide, and you're trying to argue that most people of those 1 million subscribers use ebay? Please. Stay realistic.
Lineage 2 has never been about playing alone, It's always been about clans and alliances. So no, a level 20 can't afford full D grade gear by himself. That's not how the game was designed. Lineage 2 is not a singleplayer MMO such as WoW or Everquest 2.
In fact, when I started playing L2 for the 2nd time (New account, thus without my old high level char) I played with Torak for a while, and even Torak, Who wasn't that much higher level then me, was able to provide me with D gear and soulshots at level 20.
Just look at your post, you accuse hundreds of thousand of people using Ebay. You better damn well bring some evidence the next time you make that accusation.
Your arguement is actually quite funny. You claim that "I eventually earned anything i owned" but at the same time you accusse others of ebaying (without a shred of evidence ofcourse). As if you're the only one capable of doing it legally.
You're staying Factual? No. You're not. You posted that it's difficult to get a foothold in Lineage 2, which is true, but you posted zero evidence that the community exists out of ebayers.
actually what GL is saying about clans is true if you want top grade gear. However, I just want to point out that top D grade gear is very obtainable. You can buy Brig at a normal NPC shop. The top and bottom run just over a half mil which is reasonable. The helm that completes the set is where you'll need a clan mate to assist you with. The helm can be upwards to 5 mil because its player created.
other than that, theyve changed the way gear works in making it more affordable by being able to trade up using the Mammon merchants or even the standard NPC merchants. Even pet gear can be traded up at a minimal cost.
but is the game mind numbing? at times.. Is the PvP superior to any other game Ive played on the market? Absolutely.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Its been years since I played DaoC, so I wouldn't know how to play it now.
As for Vanguard, it looks pretty but mostly need to solo to get up high enough to catch up to even casual gamers to group for questing, and traveling around the world. Even with the auction system in this game, its hard to get cash unless you know whats valuable or not.
Linage 2, is a very difficult grinder. Like Vanguard, you have to level to catch up to other players to able to group with, and because of its economy and social systems, money is very hard to come by in that game if you do not know how trading in this type of mmo works. First 10 levels seem to be moderate, but after that, I gave up on my month when I had to rely on finding others in my location and have the same quests to do, hard to do if you don't have a clan to work with.
I say Lineage 2 rock's it's the best game The game have's many charakter's, and the game have not bot. where are have bot the gm kick him and dealet him the account.^^
yeah... no bots. you playing the same Lineage2 everyone else is playing?
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Ok, I've narrowed my next MMO down to one of these 3 and can't make up my mind. I'm interested mostly in a good PvE experience, and want to be a caster. I also enjoy customizable options and believe that all casters should be capable of wearing a robe. I like gameplay based on leveling, NOT a campaign with a storyline that is beatable a 'la GW. I'm leaning towards Vanguard right now. I've heard that Lineage II's bread and butter is PVP, which Im not big on, and from what I can tell, characters don't wear robes. Dark Age of Camelot seems cool, but if I play that, I'm going to be Albion Wizard, which to my knowledge only have fire spells and I don't know if I want to struggle against fire-based enemies with no other spell to deal damage with. Also, with WAR coming out, who knows if its going to stay alive much longer. Basically, I'm looking for opinions or reassurance that Vanguard is the way to go based on what I've said above.
Any help is appreciated.
i would play lineage 2, i love the art style of lineage 2 and in my opinion its the best looking mmo out right now. . i would stay away from vanguard until they have added some more features for pvp because its not worth playing vanguard for pvp. i dont like vanguards graphics either and the audio from that games just annoys the hell out of me.
lineage 2 is a beautiful game, the grind is going to be considerably less come the new patch, making it a lot easier to get to 40.
Comments
Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with this post? I have never seen someone write such a long post and STILL not post any evidence for his arguement.
The game has one million subscribers worldwide, and you're trying to argue that most people of those 1 million subscribers use ebay? Please. Stay realistic.
Lineage 2 has never been about playing alone, It's always been about clans and alliances. So no, a level 20 can't afford full D grade gear by himself. That's not how the game was designed. Lineage 2 is not a singleplayer MMO such as WoW or Everquest 2.
In fact, when I started playing L2 for the 2nd time (New account, thus without my old high level char) I played with Torak for a while, and even Torak, Who wasn't that much higher level then me, was able to provide me with D gear and soulshots at level 20.
Just look at your post, you accuse hundreds of thousand of people using Ebay. You better damn well bring some evidence the next time you make that accusation.
Your arguement is actually quite funny. You claim that "I eventually earned anything i owned" but at the same time you accusse others of ebaying (without a shred of evidence ofcourse). As if you're the only one capable of doing it legally.
You're staying Factual? No. You're not. You posted that it's difficult to get a foothold in Lineage 2, which is true, but you posted zero evidence that the community exists out of ebayers.
L2 was good in it's day, I'm waiting for L3 whenever it will be, but I wouldn't recommend new people starting on it now, it's just too dependant on levels and getting up there is tough, not because of the time, but because of jerks killing you or your mobs.
Anyways, OP, Vanguard is a very good choice for PvE these days, or EQ2, though I prefer VG. Just don't race through it, there is plenty of content though you can't do it all before you out level it, and once you do hit 50 the raids are good, but there is no sign of more content on the horizon. So make it last!
Hey.... that reminds me.....wheres my armor at?
Whata mean "even Torak" lol... There's a "how to make adena" guide on the L2 board writen by me that the mod razorback posted on my behalf once he looked it over. Between you , my wife and siver, you guys bled me dry on a regular basis. Ah the good old days, squabbling with arsehats outside of Dion for hunting spots....
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/98734
Gameloading,
I know torak very well. He spent hours and hours playing the market to afford his gear and was in the level 40's without a full set of C gear. Most of the people I played with just sat there and leveled. Also, I'm not accusing hundreds of thousands, I have no idea about the korean side and I'm only talking about the US side.
When I joined a person wanted to lend D gear and all. He was a prolific ebayer too. Do all people ebay? of course not, but I think a majority (more than 50%) on the US servers probably do. The game mechanics are too ripe for people not to ebay. My point isn't baseless, let me flesh it out for you.
Theory: Majority of lineage 2 players ebay.
Evidence (1): very difficult economic mechanism. Almost impossible to play through and have enough money to afford gear and level at a reasonable pace. (I had to borrow money 30 million adena (from said ebayer, didn't know it at the time). I started my investment that way and was able to get up to over 200 million after a few months.
Evidence (2): I don't know of many people who actually played the market in my clan or the other clan I joined.
Evidence (3): I spent 3-4 hours every day for four months playing the market going to every buy/sell shop to garner prices, i had my toon up 24/7.
Evidence (4): Human nature: Steroid issue in baseball, cheaters throughout my education, people cheating on OPEN BOOK EXAMS. Ubiquitious nature of people being shady when being anonymous is your friend.
Conclusion: Based on the super difficult economy, the bots driving up the prices, the game mechanism not really allowing you to make money with the soulshots. Human nature especially in very competitive atmospheres lead me to believe a majority of Lineage 2 players ebayed at some point. i think i made a poll once asking about the percentage of people that ebayed, if i remember correctly, (it was over 1.5 years ago), it came out to be around 20-30% of responders. Now if people ebayed on WoW, they'll definitely be ebaying on lineage 2:) .
Gameloadings mechanism,
Theory: Cryo screams ebay at those who have better gear than him.
Evidence: A post where i claim "lineage 2 is full of ebayers" which is clearly a hyperbolic statement and would probably mean closer to the majority.
Truth 1: Cryo had the best gear.
Truth 2: Cryo earned his gear legitimately and was intimately aware of what it took.
Cryomatrix
*note: I think torak had more than one character and that may have been his second or third.
*note: That 30 million I borrowed I used it to purchase C grade and was left with 10 million for investment
I used to pick up the gold from all the people that didn't care to pick it up . . .
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Lol Cryomatrix saying you cannot even afford D-grade at 20.. you do realize you can pretty much get free D-grade armor from just joining an academy of a clan right...? Anyway, I was able to afford D/C/B before I even got there, the only trouble I had was when A-grade in which I just stayed in Giran for a week with overnight shops to get. A-grade is trouble, no doubt of that, but people can make dwarf alts and get the money or if you are like me who only has time to level one character, just stay in Giran.
Note: I don't play Lineage 2 anymore and I do see faults in it, especially the intense grind. But saying things like people need to ebay is obviously false. Now botting is another issue, the game has a huge grind and many people do go to botting. All I can say is, don't get mad if you get banned for that, it is their own faults.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
Several years ago when I was in my hard core L2 mode I think the reason I stuck it out was because the game challenged me to beat it. Thats something most MMOs are unable to do. If you can survive the grind, the cut throat politics and money grind of L2, a regular MMO is like eating styrofoam. No challenge, no choice, no consequence of action, no point. Just grind away. All of these other MMOs are hollow shells and are nothing to Aden.
In hindsight, I would probably just break down and drop 20 bucks on gold and be done with it. lol
Thats why I shy away from MMOs and judge them so harshly lately, its all grind and no fun. The new games don't even challenge anymore. Whats the point of games like Vanguard, EQII, LotR or WoW's pathetic attempt at creating a virtual world and many others? Grind until you are level cap so you can do a raid? Please.
Cryo, looking forward to our EVE endevor.
I see you don't really understand what the term evidence means. just because it's difficult to get a foothold in the market does not mean that people jump all over Ebay. In fact I find it much more logical that if a person finds a game to difficult...they quit, simple as that. They move on to a less difficult mmorpg, such as WoW. You don't have anything to back up your arguement. No numbers, polls, surveys, nothing.
Now you claim the "Majority of people ebay". Again, nothing to back up that acccusation.
p.s Torak: No offense meant on the "Even Torak" part, It was a reference to the level of your characters
Its cool, its all tongue in cheek for me...
Guys, this topic has been made because the user is intrested in the gameplay aspects of the 3 different games, not to discuss ebaying and item costs in lineage2. So can we please get this back on track, and keep the thread from going off-topic again.
vanguard was alright. graphics were nice. pvp is lame. not very engaging.
lineage 2... superb grind never made it passed 40
daoc dated graphics, never got into it. i know graphics shouldnt mean much but if thats the case
go play meridian 59 the mother of all pvp mmos.
surprisingly i find myself playing sword of the new world. its free and its awesome.
mmorpg doesnt have a dedicated forum for the game... goign to make a post about it.
www.swordofthenewworld.com
The OP stated a good PvP experience, not something you will find in L2, maybe in DAoC, and definitely not in a Sword of the New World. And SotNW does have a forum here, http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/forum/721
Sword of the New World does in fact have a forum here
mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/category/325
OP, my 2 cents in a very short summery
Vanguard - Very high system requirements, Broken very badly, deserted servers, doesn't look that great for all the aggravation it will put you through. I betaed the game and subscribed for about 2 months (Aug - Sept) Nothing compelling to do but grind 10 rats. The game is a total waste of time and money.
DAoC - Sorta dated, all but the Gareth server are deserted. No low level community, you will log in and pretty much grind out to 50 solo in the catacombs, an instanced dungeon. Some will say thats not true but that is the reality, no one ventures into the world anymore. Once you hit 50 you are going to zerg around with the few remaining hard core players do small scale skirmishing. Nothing like the good old days when the game had a population. I played DAoC for 1 year hard core and resubbed on and off a few times after ToA wrecked the game and killed the community.
L2 - also a dying game, if you can survive the hard core grind and money traps and the cut throat community past 50 up to 60 when the game actually starts, you have a lot of fun with all the drama the players make, skirmishing on weekdays with arsehats trying to off ya and doing sieges on the weekends with hundreds of other players. I played L2 hard core for over a year and resubbed a couple of times.
Of the three, none are really a good choice at this point but if you gotta do one, go Lineage II. You won't make past level 30 or 40 like most but at least when you come to flame it, you can say you tried it.
just my opinion, but if you're just looking to kill some time until war or aoc or something comes out, go daoc.
you like casters, oh. they got casters. they have more variety of classes than the other 2 combined and then some. add in wow and lotro as well daoc still has them beat.
you dont have to play to 50 alone like some might tell ya, its just not true. you can find a guild easy enough, people are still rolling alts, or lower lvl bg' toons. really cool community(at least the hibs and mids, havent lvl'd an alb in 4 years).
you can try a class to 20 or 30, the lvl 20-24 battleground is still pretty active and you can get a little bit of feel for the class. after your first or 2nd run at it, getting to low 20's should take you maybe half a day /played time.
you could kill a lot of time just exploring all the classes and specs in this game.
DAoC and L2 are shells of their former selves. Vanguard? Umm, no. If you put a gun to my head I would choose DAoC, and just stay in the Thid BG.
Anyone who hasn't played Vanguard in the last three months is working off a false judgement, it's nothing like it was at release.
If you don't know anyone in Lineage 2 to help support you, don't even consider it. The playerbase is "mature" and to get to their level while beginning as a noob without help can be a nearly impossible task (taking ebay and botting out of the equation).
It's not something you can play just for "killing" some time while you wait for WAR.
On the other hand, if you play L2 and play it seriously (semi-hardcore), you'll learn the real meaning of "bot" and "ebaying". While at the same time it has the most rewarding pvp endgame, group based (no lone-wolves here).
You know when Vanguard launched it shot up to close to 200k people playing then it quickly crashed to about 40k within a few months. What about all those people who wasted their money on the "false judgment" that the game they just dropped 50 bucks on was going to at least work? They should continue to feed them a sub fee in good faith it will come along eventually?
Yeah, I tried it in Dec / Jan when they gave out the free 2 or 3 weeks and the improvements were modest at best. Not nearly enough for the year its been, most of the technical issues like falling through the world mesh have not been resolved and to add insult to injury, the last 4 servers are "lightly populated" at best, the gameplay is brain dead grinding on "kill 10 rats", diplomacy is all but forgotten and crafting is better suited to people without a pulse. The devs are now altering the original ideas and making more and more like every other MMO racing you through the levels and adding a bunch of raids for an "endgame". Its a completely pointless exersize in level grinding.
This turkey died the death it deserved. MMOs get one shot at launch, screw that up and they never recover.
So encourage people who probably paid top dollar at launch who were disappointed to keep feeding 14.95 occasionally "just to see" if it has improved to a satisfactory level? Rewarding the makers of the game over and over just for working on it to bring it to an acceptable and playable state?You know when Vanguard launched it shot up to close to 200k people playing then it quickly crashed to about 40k within a few months. What about all those people who wasted their money on the "false judgment" that the game they just dropped 50 bucks on was going to at least work? They should continue to feed them a sub fee in good faith it will come along eventually?
Yeah, I tried it in Dec / Jan when they gave out the free 2 or 3 weeks and the improvements were modest at best. Not nearly enough for the year its been, most of the technical issues like falling through the world mesh have not been resolved and to add insult to injury, the last 4 servers are "lightly populated" at best, the gameplay is brain dead grinding on "kill 10 rats", diplomacy is all but forgotten and crafting is better suited to people without a pulse. The devs are now altering the original ideas and making more and more like every other MMO racing you through the levels and adding a bunch of raids for an "endgame". Its a completely pointless exersize in level grinding.
This turkey died the death it deserved. MMOs get one shot at launch, screw that up and they never recover.
I played through a year of beta, three months at launch and then quit. I came back in September and stayed again until December. It was good for those last three months, prior to that I agree the game was not what was promised and never good enough to be released.
But for someone who's never played it before, it's stable, there aren't many bugs left, the classes have mostly been fixed, PvE combat is fun, dungeon crawling is fun, quests are well written, the content is good, albeit too spread out imo. It will never get over it's bad release, and the servers are top heavy, but it is a good PvE experience now.
It is infinitely more enjoyable PvE experience than Lineage 2 that's for sure. If you had technical issues I suggest you look closer to home, I never fell through the world once in VG, I never had any quest bugs, framerate problems (since the last update) or other technical issues. As for world population, yes it is light at level 1, but any game that is a year or more older is going to have a mature playerbase, Lineage 2 is worst, the only reason you see more people around is cause they are bots.
Seriously, stop condemning it cause you don't like it, other people do like it. And I never recommended anyone stay with it for the whole year, not even I'm daft enough to pay for something that is broken, but it's not broken any more.
Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with this post? I have never seen someone write such a long post and STILL not post any evidence for his arguement.
The game has one million subscribers worldwide, and you're trying to argue that most people of those 1 million subscribers use ebay? Please. Stay realistic.
Lineage 2 has never been about playing alone, It's always been about clans and alliances. So no, a level 20 can't afford full D grade gear by himself. That's not how the game was designed. Lineage 2 is not a singleplayer MMO such as WoW or Everquest 2.
In fact, when I started playing L2 for the 2nd time (New account, thus without my old high level char) I played with Torak for a while, and even Torak, Who wasn't that much higher level then me, was able to provide me with D gear and soulshots at level 20.
Just look at your post, you accuse hundreds of thousand of people using Ebay. You better damn well bring some evidence the next time you make that accusation.
Your arguement is actually quite funny. You claim that "I eventually earned anything i owned" but at the same time you accusse others of ebaying (without a shred of evidence ofcourse). As if you're the only one capable of doing it legally.
You're staying Factual? No. You're not. You posted that it's difficult to get a foothold in Lineage 2, which is true, but you posted zero evidence that the community exists out of ebayers.
actually what GL is saying about clans is true if you want top grade gear. However, I just want to point out that top D grade gear is very obtainable. You can buy Brig at a normal NPC shop. The top and bottom run just over a half mil which is reasonable. The helm that completes the set is where you'll need a clan mate to assist you with. The helm can be upwards to 5 mil because its player created.
other than that, theyve changed the way gear works in making it more affordable by being able to trade up using the Mammon merchants or even the standard NPC merchants. Even pet gear can be traded up at a minimal cost.
but is the game mind numbing? at times.. Is the PvP superior to any other game Ive played on the market? Absolutely.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I say Lineage 2 rock's it's the best game
The game have's many charakter's, and the game have not bot.
where are have bot the gm kick him and dealet him the account.^^
EKTOS TOPOY KAI XRONOY
Its been years since I played DaoC, so I wouldn't know how to play it now.
As for Vanguard, it looks pretty but mostly need to solo to get up high enough to catch up to even casual gamers to group for questing, and traveling around the world. Even with the auction system in this game, its hard to get cash unless you know whats valuable or not.
Linage 2, is a very difficult grinder. Like Vanguard, you have to level to catch up to other players to able to group with, and because of its economy and social systems, money is very hard to come by in that game if you do not know how trading in this type of mmo works. First 10 levels seem to be moderate, but after that, I gave up on my month when I had to rely on finding others in my location and have the same quests to do, hard to do if you don't have a clan to work with.
yeah... no bots. you playing the same Lineage2 everyone else is playing?
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Vanguard all the way, it is by far the best mmo available right now!
Remember Old School Ultima Online
From everything your saying, play Vanguard! A great pve game!
i would play lineage 2, i love the art style of lineage 2 and in my opinion its the best looking mmo out right now. . i would stay away from vanguard until they have added some more features for pvp because its not worth playing vanguard for pvp. i dont like vanguards graphics either and the audio from that games just annoys the hell out of me.
lineage 2 is a beautiful game, the grind is going to be considerably less come the new patch, making it a lot easier to get to 40.