I've not paid for the game in nearly a year. But I get a trial on any of my old accounts at almost any time so I check in from time to time. Nice try. This is one of the fanboi tricks that are tried from time to time to somehow disqualify us from saying anything about the NGE. It goes like this: "Ok, you don't play the game, so you can't comment on it" Then evolves to: "AHA! GOTCHA! You PLAY the game, you hypocrite!" This line of argument= FAIL. Almost all of us practically get spammed with free trials on our own accounts, and any of us can use the regular 14 day trial at any time to check the game out. So we can stay current in being able to critique the "great" work of this Dev team without paying SOE a red cent.
Thats all good and well salvaje, but it raises a greater question. If you hate the game so much, why do you still invest your time in it? I mean, you're obviously spending a decent amount of time with each free trial to check out each new publish.
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Oh I get it... you log on just to check the server population. Well, that DEFFINATELY makes you an expert on the new content now doesn't it. I'm sure your 15 minute assesment of your server is quite thorough. Maybe you should actually TRY the new instances before you talk about them as if you know what you're talking about.
Then again, wow... thats alot of hate you have for something you only give a few minutes to every few months. You'd make a great dark jedi.
The hate is strong with this one.
Damn straight the hate is strong. SOE started this. But in the end I know who will still be standing and who won't be. Hint: It won't be the NGE.
And I've been in the instances. They are crap. "Run here, do this, race here, bash Foozle for 20 minutes". Yeah, pretty much like instances in any other crappy MMO. I enjoyed SWG without them. And without the NGE, but that goes without saying.
Furthermore, to be fair, before entering a trial, I use a client free of client side mods and pre existing macros. That way I get to "experience" the NGE in all it's glory. That makes my assessment more fair, you see.
Wow salvaje, you're just a walking contradiction. Lets recap.
"I hate SWG, it gets worse with every publish and no veterans will ever return!"
- Alright salvaje, but isn't it strange that you pay to play something you hate so much? I mean, you must if you're so familiar with each publish. Also, veterans (and new players alike) are joining the game. I thought you said "vets will never return, get used to it."
"Well... I don't pay to play, I only use free trials!"
- Ah, I see. But you're still investing alot of time and energy into it to experiance all the new content.
"No! I only log on to check the server population every few months."
- Oh, alright. So I guess you haven't taken the time to do the instances. Better be careful, the way you talk about it, you sound like you've done it. Just because I've been in a sand box before but that doesn't mean I'd tell people I know what the Sahara Desert is like.
"I do too know what I'm talking about! I've been in instances before! They suck! Bash this, do that, boring!"
- Strange, so let me get this straight, from what you've said so far. "Vets will never return (including me). I only use free trials to check out the content. I only log in to check the server population. I know all about the instances." ... right....
Ofcourse, it all makes sense. You're so obsessed with the game you can't let it go. If you truly wanted to let it die, you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Any publicity is good publicity. You hate swg so much you devote large chunks of time to whining on servers and have even gone so far to make a "blog" about how much soe sucks. Wow. You're devoting all this time and energy to a game you hate. In reality, you're letting it have control over you since you can't let it go. The game will only die when it fades from memory, no one plays it and no one talks about it.
Its been fun shooting holes in your logic, but I can finally rate the games so I don't have to waste my time on here anymore. Best of luck with your blog.
**Returned SWG Player** Yeah, I used to hate the game because of NGE as much as anyone, but I've been playing the game since Feb. 2008 and have honestly had a good time. If you hate the game, fantastic, move along. Its all been said before and your continuous griefing just makes you look like a sad individual with nothing better to do.
Wow salvaje, you're just a walking contradiction. Lets recap.
"I hate SWG, it gets worse with every publish and no veterans will ever return!" - Alright salvaje, but isn't it strange that you pay to play something you hate so much? I mean, you must if you're so familiar with each publish. Also, veterans (and new players alike) are joining the game. I thought you said "vets will never return, get used to it." "Well... I don't pay to play, I only use free trials!" - Ah, I see. But you're still investing alot of time and energy into it to experiance all the new content. "No! I only log on to check the server population every few months." - Oh, alright. So I guess you haven't taken the time to do the instances. Better be careful, the way you talk about it, you sound like you've done it. Just because I've been in a sand box before but that doesn't mean I'd tell people I know what the Sahara Desert is like. "I do too know what I'm talking about! I've been in instances before! They suck! Bash this, do that, boring!" - Strange, so let me get this straight, from what you've said so far. "Vets will never return (including me). I only use free trials to check out the content. I only log in to check the server population. I know all about the instances." ... right.... Ofcourse, it all makes sense. You're so obsessed with the game you can't let it go. If you truly wanted to let it die, you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Any publicity is good publicity. You hate swg so much you devote large chunks of time to whining on servers and have even gone so far to make a "blog" about how much soe sucks. Wow. You're devoting all this time and energy to a game you hate. In reality, you're letting it have control over you since you can't let it go. The game will only die when it fades from memory, no one plays it and no one talks about it. Its been fun shooting holes in your logic, but I can finally rate the games so I don't have to waste my time on here anymore. Best of luck with your blog.
They are mad that I spoiled the propaganda article over at warcry by telling the truth.
Friendly warning to the fanbois: The more you push me, the more it fuels me
I was getting bored of the debate until this latest surge. And a number of them are accounts registered in the last few days, hmmm...
No doubt amongst my fanbois are SOE employees, if not even some SWG devs.
The sad thing is that if this is true, they are as piss poor at flaming/trolling as they are at MMO development. First off, they need to decide what I am:
a. A hypocrite for playing the NGE as much as I did and for taking advantages of trials to update my knowledge of how poor the current game is.
b. Not qualified to report on the current state of the game because I don't play full time.
You need to stick to one tack or the other. Trying to use both at the same time makes you look foolish.
You know what I find funny (other than that ^)? People who come to a unaffiliated website forum who attack each other over a, what, 5 year old game that never ammounted to anything.
I'm a day 1 vet, I played the game from launch to CU, 20 months, I know what happened, yeah I'm still pissed about it, no I haven't given SOE or LA another dime of my money since... but you know, there are much more important things in the world to fight about. This really isn't one of them. And I'm talkin to both sides. It's really pretty pathetic.
Originally posted by summitus Originally posted by Asmiroth20 Originally posted by summitus Originally posted by Asmiroth20 You can call it annoying, it's your right. However, it's also his right to go back and see how things are. Yes, I can read his sig quite well, but I guess I don't take it as literal as you do.
Well maybe he should change his Fraudulent sig then eh ? Not necessarily. If you think about it for a while, considering that he does what most of us do, doing the trial/resubbing for a month. We don't stay, so technically we aren't back. When I think about 'coming back' I think more of permanent residence, not temporary stays like most of us do. Might just be me thinking that though. Anyway, I can't refute anyones opinions unless they are outright wrong and I'm aware of it...lol lol you guys ! ya really crack me up sometimes , Talk about an answer for everything Coming back obviously means paying for it again. that is what SOE wants from the vets, that is why they give out all the free trials, and that is obviously his context.
Originally posted by salvaje Originally posted by summitus Originally posted by Asmiroth20 Originally posted by Darean002 Originally posted by salvaje I've not paid for the game in nearly a year. But I get a trial on any of my old accounts at almost any time so I check in from time to time. Nice try. This is one of the fanboi tricks that are tried from time to time to somehow disqualify us from saying anything about the NGE. It goes like this: "Ok, you don't play the game, so you can't comment on it" Then evolves to: "AHA! GOTCHA! You PLAY the game, you hypocrite!" This line of argument= FAIL. Almost all of us practically get spammed with free trials on our own accounts, and any of us can use the regular 14 day trial at any time to check the game out. So we can stay current in being able to critique the "great" work of this Dev team without paying SOE a red cent.
Thats all good and well salvaje, but it raises a greater question. If you hate the game so much, why do you still invest your time in it? I mean, you're obviously spending a decent amount of time with each free trial to check out each new publish.
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take). So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to. So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid. You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it? What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense. SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people. Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE. Get over it." there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh $ logging into a trial to SOE= $0 I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down. Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water. Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you. Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice.
I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is.
Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right?
This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
Originally posted by Norrsken You "swg/soe haters" must be one of the most pathetic things I've witnessed on any forums. I played swg from the start and you know what, it was never good to begin with. Guess what, I quit and looked for a game I did enjoy, that's what normal people do, sane people.What I didn't do though; I didn't spend my time complaining and spew crap on various forums, or start websites or blogged about how much I hate SOE or SWG. That's just sad.
MMORPG.com really should clean these forums up once and for all. I am not a regular on these forums, I come here for news and sometimes check for an interesting topics. It's just that the forums is cluttered with these people who really don't contribute to anything more than aggravating people. They really need to start banning people.
Isn't it sadder to spend your time spewing hate at people who are spewing hate about something they lost? I feel that is MUCH sadder than people who actually LOST something. Hatred for the sake of hatred is far worse than hatred for a reason. Much more sane as well. Less sad too.
You're right, they may need to start banning folks who just come to hate people for the sake of hating them, but certainly NOT the people who are angry at SOE for destroying a game they once loved.
You "swg/soe haters" must be one of the most pathetic things I've witnessed on any forums.
I played swg from the start and you know what, it was never good to begin with. Guess what, I quit and looked for a game I did enjoy, that's what normal people do, sane people.
What I didn't do though; I didn't spend my time complaining and spew crap on various forums, or start websites or blogged about how much I hate SOE or SWG. That's just sad.
MMORPG.com really should clean these forums up once and for all. I am not a regular on these forums, I come here for news and sometimes check for an interesting topics. It's just that the forums is cluttered with these people who really don't contribute to anything more than aggravating people.
They really need to start banning people.
Isn't it sadder to spend your time spewing hate at people who are spewing hate about something they lost? I feel that is MUCH sadder than people who actually LOST something. Hatred for the sake of hatred is far worse than hatred for a reason. Much more sane as well. Less sad too.
You're right, they may need to start banning folks who just come to hate people for the sake of hating them, but certainly NOT the people who are angry at SOE for destroying a game they once loved.
I've not paid for the game in nearly a year. But I get a trial on any of my old accounts at almost any time so I check in from time to time.
Nice try.
This is one of the fanboi tricks that are tried from time to time to somehow disqualify us from saying anything about the NGE. It goes like this:
"Ok, you don't play the game, so you can't comment on it"
Then evolves to: "AHA! GOTCHA! You PLAY the game, you hypocrite!"
This line of argument= FAIL. Almost all of us practically get spammed with free trials on our own accounts, and any of us can use the regular 14 day trial at any time to check the game out. So we can stay current in being able to critique the "great" work of this Dev team without paying SOE a red cent.
Thats all good and well salvaje, but it raises a greater question. If you hate the game so much, why do you still invest your time in it? I mean, you're obviously spending a decent amount of time with each free trial to check out each new publish.
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice.
I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is.
Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right?
This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
Im also a current subscriber of SWG, and have been there since day one. Ive been there for every single thing thats happened in SWG from the Pub9 (never played a Jedi) to the CU and the NGE... and while I agree with every single person who was mad as SOE for the NGE, in the end the game did in fact need a MASSIVE change from what it was. Im not saying the NGE was the way it should have been done, and it was really low of SOE to spring the NGE on the community the way they did.
However most people seem to forget... the "Classic" SWG you talk of was no better then the NGE. It was a game that was full of bugs, glitches, dozens of unfinished professions, and just as many complaints. Its a total myth that the NGE was the sole thing that caused alot of very happy SWG players to suddenly up and quit. The truth of the matter is the game was in a vary sad state long before the NGE was ever a thought, and "classic" severs would do absolutly no good but to remind people of how bad the game was back then. If you recall... back in thoes "classic" days, everyone complained and bitched that the combat was broken, most of the professions were lacking content, and the game had more bugs then a rainforest. Thoes were the "WE NEED A COMBAT UPGRADE!" days... and the devs spent months working on a combat upgrade that really pissed more people off then it pleased. The CU made the game slower, brought in more bugs, and didn't really fix the core issues.
SWG had several fundamental flaws when it launched. The biggest by far was way too many professions... most of which had very little content at launch. Alot of former players refuse to admit that condensing the professions was a good idea. But it was not only a good idea, it needed to be done. You can't keep a steady flow of good content into a game for everyone when you have 30 professions. You can do maybe 2-3 professions a publish, and the whole time every other professions screaming "Why not us" or "When are we next". With only nine professions, SWG is a much better game in terms of content development. If there were only nine professions at launch no one would have complained.
IMHO SWG died the day the CU failed... alot of people who held out hope for change at that point left the game never to come back. Most people point to the NGE as dooms day, but that was just the final straw for thoes who were left after the CU (of course i refer to thoes who had fault with the game). On the two servers I played on the population dropped off considerably between the NGE and CU. While after the NGE it fell, but not nearly as much. Like it or not, the NGE actually fixed many of the fundamently flaws that were in the game since launch. Its presentation was bad, but the changes themself were needed for the game to have any possible future.
Im not a SOE fanboy, and in fact in my time on the SWG board most of my posts are SOE bashing. I think they have made several bad mistakes and done alot of very bad things to the community. Its their fault the game is in the somewhat sorry state its in. But SWG has never been a better game then it is right now. Theres not nearly as many bugs, all professions have a pretty good amount of content, alot of things removed pre-CU have returned at least to an extent, and SOE does seem to have learned some lessons from the past no matter what anyone says. Saying they haven't learned anything becuase Smedly isn't fired or there are no pre-CU servers is utter BS. Smedlys only mistake was not letting the community know about the NGE plans sooner (even tho thats not his job as president, but rather htat of the devs and CR... no one even knew who he was till he made the appology shortly after the NGE release). And Pre-CU servers would be comperable to developing another game from scratch since, as the devs have said several times, all the old code was scrapped. Not to mention sony would have to run two dev teams to keep both sever types up and running. Like it or not, the old SWG days are gone... either enjoy the new game, or wait till the KotoR MMO (not confirmed, but were not all stupid) comes out.
And one last point... I, as an active player, do disagree that the game is totally dead. Idiots like salvaje can say what they want... but SWG has come along way, the content is better now, and the player levels aren't as low as most SWG haters play them up to be. They are far from the numbers for the first year, but they have in fact climbed slowly since after the NGE. Its hard to notice that when you only hop in the game from time to time. Either way tho... if SWG was first release as it is today, it would be a blockbuster hit. Plain and simple. But unfortunatlly, SWG has a very troubled past and alot of bad blood surrounding it.
Ya know.. I think soe should put up a classic server for a month or two just for fun.. so that we can laugh when you all turn around and leave after realising that pre-nge was no better than post nge in the first place, and laugh even more when they complain that there's only 30 people online at any given time.
Ludicrous. You people are.
QFE.... see my post above. Tho this would not be possible, I would love to see it.
Originally posted by Stakex Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by salvaje
Originally posted by summitus
Originally posted by Asmiroth20
Originally posted by Darean002
Originally posted by salvaje
I've not paid for the game in nearly a year. But I get a trial on any of my old accounts at almost any time so I check in from time to time. Nice try. This is one of the fanboi tricks that are tried from time to time to somehow disqualify us from saying anything about the NGE. It goes like this: "Ok, you don't play the game, so you can't comment on it" Then evolves to: "AHA! GOTCHA! You PLAY the game, you hypocrite!" This line of argument= FAIL. Almost all of us practically get spammed with free trials on our own accounts, and any of us can use the regular 14 day trial at any time to check the game out. So we can stay current in being able to critique the "great" work of this Dev team without paying SOE a red cent.
Thats all good and well salvaje, but it raises a greater question. If you hate the game so much, why do you still invest your time in it? I mean, you're obviously spending a decent amount of time with each free trial to check out each new publish.
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take). So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to. So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid. You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it? What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense. SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE. Get over it." there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh $ logging into a trial to SOE= $0 I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down. Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water. Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice. I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is. Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right? This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
Im also a current subscriber of SWG, and have been there since day one. Ive been there for every single thing thats happened in SWG from the Pub9 (never played a Jedi) to the CU and the NGE... and while I agree with every single person who was mad as SOE for the NGE, in the end the game did in fact need a MASSIVE change from what it was. Im not saying the NGE was the way it should have been done, and it was really low of SOE to spring the NGE on the community the way they did. However most people seem to forget... the "Classic" SWG you talk of was no better then the NGE. It was a game that was full of bugs, glitches, dozens of unfinished professions, and just as many complaints. Its a total myth that the NGE was the sole thing that caused alot of very happy SWG players to suddenly up and quit. The truth of the matter is the game was in a vary sad state long before the NGE was ever a thought, and "classic" severs would do absolutly no good but to remind people of how bad the game was back then. If you recall... back in thoes "classic" days, everyone complained and bitched that the combat was broken, most of the professions were lacking content, and the game had more bugs then a rainforest. Thoes were the "WE NEED A COMBAT UPGRADE!" days... and the devs spent months working on a combat upgrade that really pissed more people off then it pleased. The CU made the game slower, brought in more bugs, and didn't really fix the core issues.
SWG had several fundamental flaws when it launched. The biggest by far was way too many professions... most of which had very little content at launch. Alot of former players refuse to admit that condensing the professions was a good idea. But it was not only a good idea, it needed to be done. You can't keep a steady flow of good content into a game for everyone when you have 30 professions. You can do maybe 2-3 professions a publish, and the whole time every other professions screaming "Why not us" or "When are we next". With only nine professions, SWG is a much better game in terms of content development. If there were only nine professions at launch no one would have complained. IMHO SWG died the day the CU failed... alot of people who held out hope for change at that point left the game never to come back. Most people point to the NGE as dooms day, but that was just the final straw for thoes who were left after the CU (of course i refer to thoes who had fault with the game). On the two servers I played on the population dropped off considerably between the NGE and CU. While after the NGE it fell, but not nearly as much. Like it or not, the NGE actually fixed many of the fundamently flaws that were in the game since launch. Its presentation was bad, but the changes themself were needed for the game to have any possible future. Im not a SOE fanboy, and in fact in my time on the SWG board most of my posts are SOE bashing. I think they have made several bad mistakes and done alot of very bad things to the community. Its their fault the game is in the somewhat sorry state its in. But SWG has never been a better game then it is right now. Theres not nearly as many bugs, all professions have a pretty good amount of content, alot of things removed pre-CU have returned at least to an extent, and SOE does seem to have learned some lessons from the past no matter what anyone says. Saying they haven't learned anything becuase Smedly isn't fired or there are no pre-CU servers is utter BS. Smedlys only mistake was not letting the community know about the NGE plans sooner (even tho thats not his job as president, but rather htat of the devs and CR... no one even knew who he was till he made the appology shortly after the NGE release). And Pre-CU servers would be comperable to developing another game from scratch since, as the devs have said several times, all the old code was scrapped. Not to mention sony would have to run two dev teams to keep both sever types up and running. Like it or not, the old SWG days are gone... either enjoy the new game, or wait till the KotoR MMO (not confirmed, but were not all stupid) comes out. And one last point... I, as an active player, do disagree that the game is totally dead. Idiots like salvaje can say what they want... but SWG has come along way, the content is better now, and the player levels aren't as low as most SWG haters play them up to be. They are far from the numbers for the first year, but they have in fact climbed slowly since after the NGE. Its hard to notice that when you only hop in the game from time to time. Either way tho... if SWG was first release as it is today, it would be a blockbuster hit. Plain and simple. But unfortunatlly, SWG has a very troubled past and alot of bad blood surrounding it.
What if they had fixed the flaws and not compounded things with unethical actions and a change in the wrong direction? That would be the right way to go, even now.
The numbers were climbing, but started falling after the Summer. they are no longer climbing, At least that is what I am seeing. The game is getting better but only for one type of player -- the EQ type player who likes running raids and instances. That's really not that many people.
They are making a small number of a dwindling base happy, and those people are viciously, hatefully defending it.
They are mad that I spoiled the propaganda article over at warcry by telling the truth. Friendly warning to the fanbois: The more you push me, the more it fuels me I was getting bored of the debate until this latest surge. And a number of them are accounts registered in the last few days, hmmm... No doubt amongst my fanbois are SOE employees, if not even some SWG devs. The sad thing is that if this is true, they are as piss poor at flaming/trolling as they are at MMO development. First off, they need to decide what I am: a. A hypocrite for playing the NGE as much as I did and for taking advantages of trials to update my knowledge of how poor the current game is. b. Not qualified to report on the current state of the game because I don't play full time. You need to stick to one tack or the other. Trying to use both at the same time makes you look foolish.
Exactly right. I don't see any contradictions in taking a vet trial to have an informed opinion of the game. If you're taking on the role of consumer advocate, you should know what you're talking about. Taking a trial for that reason makes perfect sense. There are some excellent investigative journalism programs on that do just what Salvaje has done. They check to see if claims about a product or service match the actual state of what's being advertised. One such program pointed out all the accidents due to unsafe U-haul vehicles on the road, despite the company's claims to have learned from their past mistakes.
If a company's claims don't match the journalist's observations, these programs highlight that, as service to consumers. The only people that don't like those programs are the slimey business folks that are trying to make a dishonest buck, or people who are hooked on their "stuff" and afraid to lose it. I have sympathy for the latter group, having lost things I was attached to when the NGE came out, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for the slimey business group that just wants to get away with conning the public. It gives me a good feeling when they're exposed, and it probably gives the journalists a good feeling for exposing them. It feels like a little bit of justice is being done.
The game is getting better but only for one type of player -- the EQ type player who likes running raids and instances. That's really not that many people.
Just want to let you know that i have returned last year for near 8 months and i do not fit your discription of EQ player ( i did play it abit even was in beta of EQ1 but i never made it into a long period to play or enjoy it back then maybe my tb experaince with elves and orcs made me want something else or my love for sci-fi might have made me not really enjoy EQ for long., i don't fit your discription of raider as i don't like and never have liked raids. I went back as full Trader and did them all in the time i spend in SWG which has given me allot of fun while i was playing as to me it's still in the state it was last year the only MMORPG that felt sandboxy, this could have to do with me NOT playing hte combatant side of the game ...which in all honosty i never really liked, even with pre-cu regardless that i have done all profs the most time i spend those day's was being full crafter. For me as a gamer i can play thousends and thousends of games that involve combat but for a crafter my choices are very slim with games that have crafting the way SWG has it. Sure i could play EVE and even have tried it for some time, tho i love EVE's feature's i simply couldn't get use to being a spaceship and like i said in another topic the avatars upcoming to EVE might change that and i most definitly will give hte game another change.
Originally posted by Reklaw Originally posted by Fishermage The game is getting better but only for one type of player -- the EQ type player who likes running raids and instances. That's really not that many people.
Just want to let you know that i have returned last year for near 8 months and i do not fit your discription of EQ player ( i did play it abit even was in beta of EQ1 but i never made it into a long period to play or enjoy it back then maybe my tb experaince with elves and orcs made me want something else or my love for sci-fi might have made me not really enjoy EQ for long., i don't fit your discription of raider as i don't like and never have liked raids. I went back as full Trader and did them all in the time i spend in SWG which has given me allot of fun while i was playing as to me it's still in the state it was last year the only MMORPG that felt sandboxy, this could have to do with me NOT playing hte combatant side of the game ...which in all honosty i never really liked, even with pre-cu regardless that i have done all profs the most time i spend those day's was being full crafter. For me as a gamer i can play thousends and thousends of games that involve combat but for a crafter my choices are very slim with games that have crafting the way SWG has it. Sure i could play EVE and even have tried it for some time, tho i love EVE's feature's i simply couldn't get use to being a spaceship and like i said in another topic the avatars upcoming to EVE might change that and i most definitly will give hte game another change.
I understand and am glad you are still enjoying yourself. By cutting what I said out of the context I am discussing it in, your response has no meaning, however, which is the problem with selective editing of quotes (something people do here all the time and is bad form). You also haven't said how the game is getting BETTER. You have also shared NO evidence that they have developed the game for you in the past year.
They have not, which is my point, and more and more of the sandbox players are leaving every day.
They are mad that I spoiled the propaganda article over at warcry by telling the truth. Friendly warning to the fanbois: The more you push me, the more it fuels me I was getting bored of the debate until this latest surge. And a number of them are accounts registered in the last few days, hmmm... No doubt amongst my fanbois are SOE employees, if not even some SWG devs. The sad thing is that if this is true, they are as piss poor at flaming/trolling as they are at MMO development. First off, they need to decide what I am: a. A hypocrite for playing the NGE as much as I did and for taking advantages of trials to update my knowledge of how poor the current game is. b. Not qualified to report on the current state of the game because I don't play full time. You need to stick to one tack or the other. Trying to use both at the same time makes you look foolish.
Exactly right. I don't see any contradictions in taking a vet trial to have an informed opinion of the game. If you're taking on the role of consumer advocate, you should know what you're talking about. Taking a trial for that reason makes perfect sense. There are some excellent investigative journalism programs on that do just what Salvaje has done. They check to see if claims about a product or service match the actual state of what's being advertised. One such program pointed out all the accidents due to unsafe U-haul vehicles on the road, despite the company's claims to have learned from their past mistakes.
If a company's claims don't match the journalist's observations, these programs highlight that, as service to consumers. The only people that don't like those programs are the slimey business folks that are trying to make a dishonest buck, or people who are hooked on their "stuff" and afraid to lose it. I have sympathy for the latter group, having lost things I was attached to when the NGE came out, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for the slimey business group that just wants to get away with conning the public. It gives me a good feeling when they're exposed, and it probably gives the journalists a good feeling for exposing them. It feels like a little bit of justice is being done.
Well said, both of you.
One further point to keep in mind: journalists who cover games for game media (such as magazines) are walking a fine line. The primary advertisers for the publications they work for are the game companies, and they'll react badly if game articles are too critical. This happens in newspapers all the time; a hard hitting story on local auto dealers pulling fast ones might result in an advertiser boycot that hits the paper where it lives economically.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
The game had really bad management. It still does. Firstly, when you cant keep your staff cause they either quit or get fired, screams trouble. Secondly, when said staff leaves and is replaced by people who have NO idea and actually "need training" just to get the hang of things and are expected to deliver productively... you get a mess. This is why they had to recode the combat system (I wont say revamp), the new staff had no idea how to get their hands in the old code.
This tells you what, if staff is quitting and getting fired, means the overal atmosphere of that department is not good. People dont like to be there and that is why you end up getting bad results.
Upper management, and the actual swg player were on different pages. Upper management was not interested in adapting to the player base, that is why so many times there was huge uproars where people camped theed and other hot spots to protest. It was so bad a few times as I recall the server went down (corbantis).
If you cant adapt to your player base and your not listening to the feedback, its game over. Of course there will always be some people who will simply play the game even if it turns bad, but you get that everywhere. (In B class movies, you still had fans).
Overall, the game is dead for me and for everyone I know played the game. The games been dead over years actually, I just saw this post.
First thing the game needs, is new upper management and ceo or whatever that idiot leading this game is.
But even at that, the game is aged now, graphics arent up to par and it wouldnt be the same. They need to do SWG 2. But not SoE, some other company.
Comments
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Oh I get it... you log on just to check the server population. Well, that DEFFINATELY makes you an expert on the new content now doesn't it. I'm sure your 15 minute assesment of your server is quite thorough. Maybe you should actually TRY the new instances before you talk about them as if you know what you're talking about.Then again, wow... thats alot of hate you have for something you only give a few minutes to every few months. You'd make a great dark jedi.
The hate is strong with this one.
Damn straight the hate is strong. SOE started this. But in the end I know who will still be standing and who won't be. Hint: It won't be the NGE.
And I've been in the instances. They are crap. "Run here, do this, race here, bash Foozle for 20 minutes". Yeah, pretty much like instances in any other crappy MMO. I enjoyed SWG without them. And without the NGE, but that goes without saying.
Furthermore, to be fair, before entering a trial, I use a client free of client side mods and pre existing macros. That way I get to "experience" the NGE in all it's glory. That makes my assessment more fair, you see.
Wow salvaje, you're just a walking contradiction. Lets recap."I hate SWG, it gets worse with every publish and no veterans will ever return!"
- Alright salvaje, but isn't it strange that you pay to play something you hate so much? I mean, you must if you're so familiar with each publish. Also, veterans (and new players alike) are joining the game. I thought you said "vets will never return, get used to it."
"Well... I don't pay to play, I only use free trials!"
- Ah, I see. But you're still investing alot of time and energy into it to experiance all the new content.
"No! I only log on to check the server population every few months."
- Oh, alright. So I guess you haven't taken the time to do the instances. Better be careful, the way you talk about it, you sound like you've done it. Just because I've been in a sand box before but that doesn't mean I'd tell people I know what the Sahara Desert is like.
"I do too know what I'm talking about! I've been in instances before! They suck! Bash this, do that, boring!"
- Strange, so let me get this straight, from what you've said so far. "Vets will never return (including me). I only use free trials to check out the content. I only log in to check the server population. I know all about the instances." ... right....
Ofcourse, it all makes sense. You're so obsessed with the game you can't let it go. If you truly wanted to let it die, you wouldn't keep bringing it up. Any publicity is good publicity. You hate swg so much you devote large chunks of time to whining on servers and have even gone so far to make a "blog" about how much soe sucks. Wow. You're devoting all this time and energy to a game you hate. In reality, you're letting it have control over you since you can't let it go. The game will only die when it fades from memory, no one plays it and no one talks about it.
Its been fun shooting holes in your logic, but I can finally rate the games so I don't have to waste my time on here anymore. Best of luck with your blog.
**Returned SWG Player**
Yeah, I used to hate the game because of NGE as much as anyone, but I've been playing the game since Feb. 2008 and have honestly had a good time. If you hate the game, fantastic, move along. Its all been said before and your continuous griefing just makes you look like a sad individual with nothing better to do.
Attacking Salvaje doesn't make the NGE fun.
Cat's got a stalker.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
They are mad that I spoiled the propaganda article over at warcry by telling the truth.
Friendly warning to the fanbois: The more you push me, the more it fuels me
I was getting bored of the debate until this latest surge. And a number of them are accounts registered in the last few days, hmmm...
No doubt amongst my fanbois are SOE employees, if not even some SWG devs.
The sad thing is that if this is true, they are as piss poor at flaming/trolling as they are at MMO development. First off, they need to decide what I am:
a. A hypocrite for playing the NGE as much as I did and for taking advantages of trials to update my knowledge of how poor the current game is.
b. Not qualified to report on the current state of the game because I don't play full time.
You need to stick to one tack or the other. Trying to use both at the same time makes you look foolish.
You know what I find funny (other than that ^)? People who come to a unaffiliated website forum who attack each other over a, what, 5 year old game that never ammounted to anything.
I'm a day 1 vet, I played the game from launch to CU, 20 months, I know what happened, yeah I'm still pissed about it, no I haven't given SOE or LA another dime of my money since... but you know, there are much more important things in the world to fight about. This really isn't one of them. And I'm talkin to both sides. It's really pretty pathetic.
SWG? Pull the plug already!
Not necessarily. If you think about it for a while, considering that he does what most of us do, doing the trial/resubbing for a month. We don't stay, so technically we aren't back. When I think about 'coming back' I think more of permanent residence, not temporary stays like most of us do. Might just be me thinking that though. Anyway, I can't refute anyones opinions unless they are outright wrong and I'm aware of it...lol
lol you guys ! ya really crack me up sometimes , Talk about an answer for everything
Coming back obviously means paying for it again. that is what SOE wants from the vets, that is why they give out all the free trials, and that is obviously his context.
fishermage.blogspot.com
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice.
I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is.
Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right?
This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Isn't it sadder to spend your time spewing hate at people who are spewing hate about something they lost? I feel that is MUCH sadder than people who actually LOST something. Hatred for the sake of hatred is far worse than hatred for a reason. Much more sane as well. Less sad too.
You're right, they may need to start banning folks who just come to hate people for the sake of hating them, but certainly NOT the people who are angry at SOE for destroying a game they once loved.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I think this picture posted by a fellow member in the gallery sums up SWG pretty well.
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/9a5516e4-d739-4822-aa50-0d3394b1302e
Isn't it sadder to spend your time spewing hate at people who are spewing hate about something they lost? I feel that is MUCH sadder than people who actually LOST something. Hatred for the sake of hatred is far worse than hatred for a reason. Much more sane as well. Less sad too.
You're right, they may need to start banning folks who just come to hate people for the sake of hating them, but certainly NOT the people who are angry at SOE for destroying a game they once loved.
Irony ftw!
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice.
I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is.
Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right?
This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
Im also a current subscriber of SWG, and have been there since day one. Ive been there for every single thing thats happened in SWG from the Pub9 (never played a Jedi) to the CU and the NGE... and while I agree with every single person who was mad as SOE for the NGE, in the end the game did in fact need a MASSIVE change from what it was. Im not saying the NGE was the way it should have been done, and it was really low of SOE to spring the NGE on the community the way they did.
However most people seem to forget... the "Classic" SWG you talk of was no better then the NGE. It was a game that was full of bugs, glitches, dozens of unfinished professions, and just as many complaints. Its a total myth that the NGE was the sole thing that caused alot of very happy SWG players to suddenly up and quit. The truth of the matter is the game was in a vary sad state long before the NGE was ever a thought, and "classic" severs would do absolutly no good but to remind people of how bad the game was back then. If you recall... back in thoes "classic" days, everyone complained and bitched that the combat was broken, most of the professions were lacking content, and the game had more bugs then a rainforest. Thoes were the "WE NEED A COMBAT UPGRADE!" days... and the devs spent months working on a combat upgrade that really pissed more people off then it pleased. The CU made the game slower, brought in more bugs, and didn't really fix the core issues.
SWG had several fundamental flaws when it launched. The biggest by far was way too many professions... most of which had very little content at launch. Alot of former players refuse to admit that condensing the professions was a good idea. But it was not only a good idea, it needed to be done. You can't keep a steady flow of good content into a game for everyone when you have 30 professions. You can do maybe 2-3 professions a publish, and the whole time every other professions screaming "Why not us" or "When are we next". With only nine professions, SWG is a much better game in terms of content development. If there were only nine professions at launch no one would have complained.
IMHO SWG died the day the CU failed... alot of people who held out hope for change at that point left the game never to come back. Most people point to the NGE as dooms day, but that was just the final straw for thoes who were left after the CU (of course i refer to thoes who had fault with the game). On the two servers I played on the population dropped off considerably between the NGE and CU. While after the NGE it fell, but not nearly as much. Like it or not, the NGE actually fixed many of the fundamently flaws that were in the game since launch. Its presentation was bad, but the changes themself were needed for the game to have any possible future.
Im not a SOE fanboy, and in fact in my time on the SWG board most of my posts are SOE bashing. I think they have made several bad mistakes and done alot of very bad things to the community. Its their fault the game is in the somewhat sorry state its in. But SWG has never been a better game then it is right now. Theres not nearly as many bugs, all professions have a pretty good amount of content, alot of things removed pre-CU have returned at least to an extent, and SOE does seem to have learned some lessons from the past no matter what anyone says. Saying they haven't learned anything becuase Smedly isn't fired or there are no pre-CU servers is utter BS. Smedlys only mistake was not letting the community know about the NGE plans sooner (even tho thats not his job as president, but rather htat of the devs and CR... no one even knew who he was till he made the appology shortly after the NGE release). And Pre-CU servers would be comperable to developing another game from scratch since, as the devs have said several times, all the old code was scrapped. Not to mention sony would have to run two dev teams to keep both sever types up and running. Like it or not, the old SWG days are gone... either enjoy the new game, or wait till the KotoR MMO (not confirmed, but were not all stupid) comes out.
And one last point... I, as an active player, do disagree that the game is totally dead. Idiots like salvaje can say what they want... but SWG has come along way, the content is better now, and the player levels aren't as low as most SWG haters play them up to be. They are far from the numbers for the first year, but they have in fact climbed slowly since after the NGE. Its hard to notice that when you only hop in the game from time to time. Either way tho... if SWG was first release as it is today, it would be a blockbuster hit. Plain and simple. But unfortunatlly, SWG has a very troubled past and alot of bad blood surrounding it.
QFE.... see my post above. Tho this would not be possible, I would love to see it.
To truly evaluate a new publish and its new instances (for example) that means you've taken the time to do the pre-req quests and then run each new instance. So lets see, thats about 2 hours per each pre-requisite quest, and an average of 2-4 hours per instance. Thats quite alot of time you must be investing to do each instance (2*4+4*3 = 20 hours, give or take).
So that makes me wonder: if you hate the game so much, why are you still investing your time and energy in it? Ok, fantastic, I'm glad you're not wasting your hard earned dollars, but its still quite an investment from you if you know the each publish as well as you claim to.
So really, my point doesn't change and your argument is still invalid.
You're either still investing lots of time in it (as a non-paying returning veteran) or your logic = FAIL. Which is it?
What he does is what I do every now and then. He pops in to see how the game is for a little spark of nostalgia and finds out that the trainwreck is still in progress. Yes, we do spend a lot of time talking about the game that we used to play. I guess it's cause it was trashed so suddenly (June 2003? to November 2005). Other games fade out of mind eventually, but SWG didn't get that chance. SOE burned it out too soon which leaves us wanting closure, if that makes sense.
SWG is dead. I don't mean that in the sense that there's nobody playing it (although there is a remarkably noticeable population problem they're having), I mean the magic that the game used to have. Whenever I logged in, I felt like I was really in the Star Wars universe. It's really sad when I log into the game with the same name and find that it's just a shell, just a game and not a world anymore. Immersion, customization and community were all intertwined making it perfect for me. Made it perfect for a great many people.
Well ok mister annoying blue text , let me quote his sig the shall I ?
"The veterans are NEVER going to come back to the the game as long as it's the NGE.
Get over it."
there we go thats not hard to understand now is it ? .. or does never not really mean never eh
$ logging into a trial to SOE= $0
I occasionally (maybe once every couple months) will log into a trial just to see if the population of Bloodfin has gone up or down. It's down.
Also, I do this so as to NOT be ignorant of how the game currently is which allows me to continue to blow the arguments of fanbois out of the water.
Which is why you guys keep wanting to hang some sort of "hypocrite" label on me, because I am the one guy you can't refute and it bugs the shit out of you.
Plus he has people like me who still pay, still play, and also play on Bloodfin. I can say the DEVs have not learned their lesson from the NGE, are still developing the game in the same way, and the populations are NOT growing. I want the best for the game and am not technically part of this boycott (although I certainly would have more accounts if they weren't so bad).
What is best for the game would be to apologise, fire Smedley, and opem Classic Servers YESTERDAY. Sadly, they don't listen to my sound business advice.
I am technically taking the SOE "side," doing my best for them, but I won't lie for them, as many others do here. The game is screwed; they aren't making it better, and the population is still falling, due to the mistakes they are still making. Sure, some people are having fun, but more people keep paying for a game they hate because it's the only Star Wars MMO there is.
Such is the power of brand loyalty, of which I am unabashedly afflicted. That being said, it helps when one has the disposable income, which I do, and one is not a boycotter, being one who would rather get his hands nice and dirty and fight the good fight from within. Plus I find my way more fun all around, and that's what MMO's are all about, entertainment, right?
This is MY entertainment and my own way of enjoying a game I used to love, in a galaxy that now seems VERY far, far away.
Im also a current subscriber of SWG, and have been there since day one. Ive been there for every single thing thats happened in SWG from the Pub9 (never played a Jedi) to the CU and the NGE... and while I agree with every single person who was mad as SOE for the NGE, in the end the game did in fact need a MASSIVE change from what it was. Im not saying the NGE was the way it should have been done, and it was really low of SOE to spring the NGE on the community the way they did.
However most people seem to forget... the "Classic" SWG you talk of was no better then the NGE. It was a game that was full of bugs, glitches, dozens of unfinished professions, and just as many complaints. Its a total myth that the NGE was the sole thing that caused alot of very happy SWG players to suddenly up and quit. The truth of the matter is the game was in a vary sad state long before the NGE was ever a thought, and "classic" severs would do absolutly no good but to remind people of how bad the game was back then. If you recall... back in thoes "classic" days, everyone complained and bitched that the combat was broken, most of the professions were lacking content, and the game had more bugs then a rainforest. Thoes were the "WE NEED A COMBAT UPGRADE!" days... and the devs spent months working on a combat upgrade that really pissed more people off then it pleased. The CU made the game slower, brought in more bugs, and didn't really fix the core issues.
SWG had several fundamental flaws when it launched. The biggest by far was way too many professions... most of which had very little content at launch. Alot of former players refuse to admit that condensing the professions was a good idea. But it was not only a good idea, it needed to be done. You can't keep a steady flow of good content into a game for everyone when you have 30 professions. You can do maybe 2-3 professions a publish, and the whole time every other professions screaming "Why not us" or "When are we next". With only nine professions, SWG is a much better game in terms of content development. If there were only nine professions at launch no one would have complained.
IMHO SWG died the day the CU failed... alot of people who held out hope for change at that point left the game never to come back. Most people point to the NGE as dooms day, but that was just the final straw for thoes who were left after the CU (of course i refer to thoes who had fault with the game). On the two servers I played on the population dropped off considerably between the NGE and CU. While after the NGE it fell, but not nearly as much. Like it or not, the NGE actually fixed many of the fundamently flaws that were in the game since launch. Its presentation was bad, but the changes themself were needed for the game to have any possible future.
Im not a SOE fanboy, and in fact in my time on the SWG board most of my posts are SOE bashing. I think they have made several bad mistakes and done alot of very bad things to the community. Its their fault the game is in the somewhat sorry state its in. But SWG has never been a better game then it is right now. Theres not nearly as many bugs, all professions have a pretty good amount of content, alot of things removed pre-CU have returned at least to an extent, and SOE does seem to have learned some lessons from the past no matter what anyone says. Saying they haven't learned anything becuase Smedly isn't fired or there are no pre-CU servers is utter BS. Smedlys only mistake was not letting the community know about the NGE plans sooner (even tho thats not his job as president, but rather htat of the devs and CR... no one even knew who he was till he made the appology shortly after the NGE release). And Pre-CU servers would be comperable to developing another game from scratch since, as the devs have said several times, all the old code was scrapped. Not to mention sony would have to run two dev teams to keep both sever types up and running. Like it or not, the old SWG days are gone... either enjoy the new game, or wait till the KotoR MMO (not confirmed, but were not all stupid) comes out.
And one last point... I, as an active player, do disagree that the game is totally dead. Idiots like salvaje can say what they want... but SWG has come along way, the content is better now, and the player levels aren't as low as most SWG haters play them up to be. They are far from the numbers for the first year, but they have in fact climbed slowly since after the NGE. Its hard to notice that when you only hop in the game from time to time. Either way tho... if SWG was first release as it is today, it would be a blockbuster hit. Plain and simple. But unfortunatlly, SWG has a very troubled past and alot of bad blood surrounding it.
What if they had fixed the flaws and not compounded things with unethical actions and a change in the wrong direction? That would be the right way to go, even now.
The numbers were climbing, but started falling after the Summer. they are no longer climbing, At least that is what I am seeing. The game is getting better but only for one type of player -- the EQ type player who likes running raids and instances. That's really not that many people.
They are making a small number of a dwindling base happy, and those people are viciously, hatefully defending it.
fishermage.blogspot.com
If a company's claims don't match the journalist's observations, these programs highlight that, as service to consumers. The only people that don't like those programs are the slimey business folks that are trying to make a dishonest buck, or people who are hooked on their "stuff" and afraid to lose it. I have sympathy for the latter group, having lost things I was attached to when the NGE came out, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for the slimey business group that just wants to get away with conning the public. It gives me a good feeling when they're exposed, and it probably gives the journalists a good feeling for exposing them. It feels like a little bit of justice is being done.
I understand and am glad you are still enjoying yourself. By cutting what I said out of the context I am discussing it in, your response has no meaning, however, which is the problem with selective editing of quotes (something people do here all the time and is bad form). You also haven't said how the game is getting BETTER. You have also shared NO evidence that they have developed the game for you in the past year.
They have not, which is my point, and more and more of the sandbox players are leaving every day.
fishermage.blogspot.com
If a company's claims don't match the journalist's observations, these programs highlight that, as service to consumers. The only people that don't like those programs are the slimey business folks that are trying to make a dishonest buck, or people who are hooked on their "stuff" and afraid to lose it. I have sympathy for the latter group, having lost things I was attached to when the NGE came out, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for the slimey business group that just wants to get away with conning the public. It gives me a good feeling when they're exposed, and it probably gives the journalists a good feeling for exposing them. It feels like a little bit of justice is being done.
Well said, both of you.
One further point to keep in mind: journalists who cover games for game media (such as magazines) are walking a fine line. The primary advertisers for the publications they work for are the game companies, and they'll react badly if game articles are too critical. This happens in newspapers all the time; a hard hitting story on local auto dealers pulling fast ones might result in an advertiser boycot that hits the paper where it lives economically.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
The game had really bad management. It still does. Firstly, when you cant keep your staff cause they either quit or get fired, screams trouble. Secondly, when said staff leaves and is replaced by people who have NO idea and actually "need training" just to get the hang of things and are expected to deliver productively... you get a mess. This is why they had to recode the combat system (I wont say revamp), the new staff had no idea how to get their hands in the old code.
This tells you what, if staff is quitting and getting fired, means the overal atmosphere of that department is not good. People dont like to be there and that is why you end up getting bad results.
Upper management, and the actual swg player were on different pages. Upper management was not interested in adapting to the player base, that is why so many times there was huge uproars where people camped theed and other hot spots to protest. It was so bad a few times as I recall the server went down (corbantis).
If you cant adapt to your player base and your not listening to the feedback, its game over. Of course there will always be some people who will simply play the game even if it turns bad, but you get that everywhere. (In B class movies, you still had fans).
Overall, the game is dead for me and for everyone I know played the game. The games been dead over years actually, I just saw this post.
First thing the game needs, is new upper management and ceo or whatever that idiot leading this game is.
But even at that, the game is aged now, graphics arent up to par and it wouldnt be the same. They need to do SWG 2. But not SoE, some other company.