VG will see little change aside from new raid zones. I'm guessing what spawned all the focus for minimal performance increases by reducing character customization was the trouble they had with APW and the lagfest they experienced in developing it. I also believe that they were too far down the road of new models to turn back when the players found what was really causing all the lag. It's sad really, but that's what you get when you have such a small staff of inexperienced personnel.
These changes to actions while mounted probably have to do with permanent flying mounts and the PvP server. I'm not sure how heals and buff spells differ from offensive abilities code-wise, but it'd be terrible to have someone parked on a flying mount casting heals and such, completely out of the range of melee fighters. I'm only guessing that this has some relation.
And yes, I agree, Silius is a tool and needs a vacation. A permanent one.
Remove character customization due to APW lag? I experienced 0 lag in 24 player raid sharing a shard with 2 other guilds running at high quality setting. They should fine tune the different graphic setting to reduce the poly count on lower settings if they are concerned with people not able to run the game smoothly.
And in the current system, you can't cast anything on a flying mount. I just don't understand why ground mount was effected in any case.
With this rant of your and this nice picture of you, I just want to hug you! :P Here here, sssshhh...everything will be fine...cancel sub!
I give up on Vanguard a LONG time ago. You where very nice and understanding to give them soo much of your trust and patience. Now now, just forget them. They are not worthy of your time.
See, childs sometimes do bad things to keep your attention. I think this is the case of Vanguard and most MMOs. Giving them a rant is way too nice. Just let's go. I feel a lot better now that I don't try to convince WAR devs about the needs of a PvE-grouping server. Their lost if they miss the train; not mine. :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I love the game too and have played it since release and have watched GU4 closely. My thoughts on just a few of the points. 1) Riftways. While originally opposed to the new riftway system, I am now looking forward to it. I'm working on an alt now and simply do not want to travel vast distances across continents to group with my guildies. Our guild has 6-7 people in my alt's range, I need to get to them quickly in order to group as I typically don't have much time to play and cannot spend most of that trying to get to them. 2) Not casting while on mounts. Don't understand this completely, but it doesn't bother me much though as it's relatively minor. Maybe it will help with some of the mount exploits or perhaps it's original design that you shouldn't be able to levitate you AND your horse or invis you AND your horse. The old D&D person in me kinda jives with the changes. 3) Face customizatiion - It will be a painful interim step, agreed. But I thought Silius made a very good post on the intent and the overall game plan for this change. In summary, rebuilding the character models to ultimately look better and require less processing power is a huge under-taking and is going to require this in between step to get there. Personally, I look forward to recognizing people soley on looks and not their name. Right now there is a TON of customizations that are very small and don't do a whole lot to distinquish characters unless you are staring them right in the face. Whereas down the road, the plan is to add back in different customizations that have a bigger impact on the looks of the character. 4) The class redos have been very well received in my opinion. They are making DKs, Paladins and Warriors work as intended which ultimately adds more complexity to each and makes them even more distinct classes from one another. For example, in APW we've just been putting up our best warrior as tank against all mobs. After GU4 we will switch out Pally, Warrior or DK depending on the mob type to best leverage abilities and characteristics that will be much more specific to each class. 5) Agreed on the quests. Pantheon of the Ancients should be a very high priority as that could be a ridiculously fun quest line. Personally, I think Silius does a good job communicating. No matter what he does, someone is going to whine about it... and some go so far as to personally attack him and call for his head. Yet, he continues to come to the board and answer as many questions as he can. I think a lot of people, if put in Sillius's shoes, would simply throw their hands up and tell the VGplayer posters to F themselves. In the end, the game is getting better and the population is going up. But they need to be very careful not to go too far and dumb this game down because then they will lose the very people that make up the bulk of their player base. But so far, I think some of the fundamental changes being made are immediately necessary to improve the game.
I'm with Teala 100%. Fed up with the whole sorry debarkle. Cancelled, won't play another Sony game and will make a point of steering anyone I know away from this shower.
These kinds of anger based rants almost make me want to resub to VG, curiously enough. Mostly because it shows that the developers are willing to ignore the often irrational demands of players who are not in the know as to what is going on behind the scenes, in order to continue working towards their goal. If they were to listen to players, the game probably would be quite broken. But sure, it's always easy to get annoyed over changes to any system, especially if viewed from the outside, where one can not see the cogs in the gears that the change is attempting to smooth over. Especially if those changes are made by a company that has a massive negative stigma due to a subset of vocal players (like say, the swg vets) who feel a need to rant about it every couple of days, years after the fact. While ignoring the fact that most mmo devs do the exact same thing in most mmos. Including but not limited to putting interim code in as a placeholder until the changes are complete, such as limiting the avatar customization as a temporary fix, or knocking you off your mount, giving them a chance to implement the full fixes to whatever issue was relevant.
QFT.
There was a period where the devs seemed to really try to engage the community on all the little whinges and whines abot every change (around the time that Phathom took over), but i personally prefer the devs be strong enough to make changes that in their professional opinion are for the best of the game, and stick with them. Every time a change is announced 100 or so people threaten to go on a hunger strike until Dev XYZ has their head removed via guillotine - its a good laugh every time
if your mounted on a horse and so much as sneeze...you'll be dismounted. Yep that's right, cast a spell like a buff from a horse and you'll get dumped on your arse. Change a piece of armour and - yep you'll get dumped on your arse as your horse goes poof. Nope.
Silius says and only says..."Intended". Yes, but not intended the way it turned out apperantly.
Tiraslee wrote:
It's still there, just not what it was the past couple weeks. You can now cast beneficial spells from your mount without being dismounted on yourself or someone who is not engaged in combat. However, casting an ability that will put you in combat with an npc or put you on the npc's hate list (ex: healing someone that is fighting with a mob) will dismount you.
Whereas down the road, the plan is to add back in different customizations that have a bigger impact on the looks of the character.
I stopped playing Vanguard some months ago but I still keep an eye on it, and I've been following the debate over character customization with some interest. For me, this was always one area in which the game excelled and I'm far less likely to resub once many of the customization options have been removed. I would be wary of promises to add those options back in "down the road". Vanguard has always been about unfulfilled potential and the promise of jam tomorrow. Anger will dissipate as "outraged" players become used to their new generic avatars, new players will not care about the loss of something they never had and the reintroduction of customization options will drop quietly off the radar. Silius can afford to make these promises now to calm the horses knowing he will not have to make good on them any time soon.
Ok maybe if this game had City of Heros customization., and they ripped it out the game. I would be uber pissed about it. Nothing to call mutiny on SOE about. I still think everyone i see that's the same race in VG look's the fricken same anyways.
Teala... I feel for you, and the commited players of Vanguard. Although we saw different perspectives we never had what I would considered "bad blood" between each other. I would have to agree with you on the sitiuations the Dev team, and SOE has brought on themselves. I can testify you have been an advent supporter of Vanguard, and the more SOE pushes players like yourself away they loose their creditability of providing an adequate game to satisify their loyal customers.
I really do hope that they start considering what they do affects the community, and the future of the game itself.To not address the real issuses with the state of the game, and proceeding to say "working as intended" is to me a slap in the face as a PAYING customer. Even though it has been many months since I have played VG... I really do hope they turn this product around. Not for my sake, but for the sake of loyal customers such as yourself.
Silius used to be the crafting Dev. He often pissed off the crafters, but was usually right for the game. He also was very active on the crafting forums and willing to announce his decisions.
I agree with half of that... he usually pissed of crafters. I guess whether or not his choices were good for the game are up for debate, but when you sell a subscription based service... maybe what's good for the game and what the players want are the same thing.
That jackass is the main reason I walked away from that game. At least he is right at home with SOE now. I always said during beta that he reminded me of Smed. He implements changes that his subscribers don't want, and justifies them by saying we don't really know what we want. He is right, we are wrong. If we knew how to make games, someone would pay us to do so... I really hate the guy. After watching him attack and belittle the beta testers.. going as far as publicly chastising the crafting community representative, I'd really rather see the guy in an unemployment line. Maybe flipping burgers, assuming he could even handle that task.
When the game moved to SOE, I actually considered trying it out again in the future, hoping he was one of the devs that was left unemployed... he is incompetent and incapable of learning from his mistakes, as long as he has the reins, this game is headed downhill.
I can really understand where anyone who has played this game since launch might finally blow a gasket over player/dev relations or something that is happening to the game. It certainly hasn't been the smoothest of rides and those who stick it out might just deserve a medal for patience.
However, there are some things that just should not happen. Like the lead dev misleading the community with statements that seriously downplay how much they were changing. There is no real need to take anything away things from the players right now, but instead it really should be giving more things to the players. If there is something the absolutely must be removed like the facial customization for performance issues, then the devs should bow their heads and come to the players with hat in hand and gently explain why these things must be changed BEFORE they spring the changes on players. The very last thing this game needs is some jackass who has a history of being irritating to the player community and lacks decent interpersonal skills as the one to interact with the community.
In all honesty I think SOE has more experience with how much hardship people are willing to put up with before leaving a game and they know the majority of the subscribers left in VG aren't going anywhere. I am just not sure they have a clear goal for what changes need to be made in a effort to attract new players, but I am betting they are not changes will be focused on new people first regardless of how they affect current players.
In all honesty I think SOE has more experience with how much hardship people are willing to put up with before leaving a game and they know the majority of the subscribers left in VG aren't going anywhere. I am just not sure they have a clear goal for what changes need to be made in a effort to attract new players, but I am betting they are not changes will be focused on new people first regardless of how they affect current players.
Let's hope this ain't no business plan. A few years ago it would have been the case for me, but not any more. VG isn't an excellent or even decent wow-clone game. It is its own game but it appealed to a lot of old EQ players. This has changed as more and more its being transformed into something I wouldn't have bought at any time. I don't mean you know basic game changes that all games go through but really major revamping of its philosophy and approach and even removal of major functions (like customization). I don't care if they will add something later in x/x/xxxx. They are asking for my money today! Couple that with deception, bait-and-switch, and outright rudeness by developers toward a customer base consisting of mostly mature working professionals- I can't see a single reason to stay. Sony reputation is well established as well, so no faith that the company will do the right thing tomorrow whatsoever. End result my sub for VG cancelled. I will not buy any new mmorpg if published with Sony because it has become an established company trend.
They need to attract new players? It is simple as hell...replace the current CEO ...and do an entire restructuring of upper management and product handling. Analyze consumer base both current and those that left from a marketing perspective. Gear your products to them not to your competitor's market segment. They are in a subscription business model. On average it would cost them 5 more times to get a new customer than it does to retain a current one. Brand (game) loyalty is also a major obstacle to conversion of competitor's market base. Getting a disgruntled consumer back is even more expensive. Keep your retention high for current products then launch new products specifically designed to target other markets segments. Your own base will be strong. Happy consumers will be an asset in viral marketing. Your growth will be cumulative. SOE current way of alienating current subs to appeal to competitor's segments by conversion of products after purchase is just insane business. The fault lie right at the feet of the CEO. I wonder if he has some business contract that insures his seat regardless of the company's revenue stream.
Perhaps the new character customization they are working on is more of a cartoonish appearance, similiar to that found in a MMORPG by a Canadian developer, the name of which I can't exactly recall, something like MOM, maybe?
Believe it. I am having fun, and populations are growing. What are you playing now Kerith?
I've heard this population is growing BS for months now - I hop on with the all-access pass and see the same 4 servers and same pops all the time
If it was growing all this time as some have said they'd certainly be a little more crowded than they are now
One thing though VG doesn't disappoint in is forum drama , looks like they have pissed off enough VG true fans with this last update to really make the official forums fun again - not quite like the SOE takeover forum fun , but still amusing
I bet I can find some folks trying to claim that VG's pop was growing all the way up to the SOE announcement of sever merges
Only after people were able to log into test to see the "minor" changes and started to let the masses know how utterly little was left to customize with... Silius comes onto the boards and says he didnt know the changes were going to be so extensive...
When the lead dev says he doesn't even know what is being done to the game, it is a surefire way of telling it's time for him to be replaced. His job is to know what goes in the game at all times, otherwise he's obviously "leading" nothing.
Silius is a clueless idiot with ZERO social or PR skills. I think he got the job based on eating more tacos in 5 minutes than the other applicants. Seriously.
The whole team started doign things right, I think. It was looking up. Now they've done a 180 and turned VG back into a steaming pile of ass- I guess they figured it should match the rest of their game lineup.
I bet I can find some folks trying to claim that VG's pop was growing all the way up to the SOE announcement of sever merges Bets ?
I bet I can find someone saying that 9/11 was due to the buildings needing to expensive repairs, which was solved in a rather controversial way.
Bets?
Althoug I think it will be easier to find people claiming that people said the population was good before the mergers. People stated the population to be fine (still) up until april-may.
I cant wait until tonights Dev chat to see how big of an ASS Silius makes of himself.
-
Orphes, my firend /sigh How are you doing?
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Comments
Remove character customization due to APW lag? I experienced 0 lag in 24 player raid sharing a shard with 2 other guilds running at high quality setting. They should fine tune the different graphic setting to reduce the poly count on lower settings if they are concerned with people not able to run the game smoothly.
And in the current system, you can't cast anything on a flying mount. I just don't understand why ground mount was effected in any case.
LOL.. Can I have your stuff?
I though SoE made everything soulbound.............
Nope. Not everything. Typcially just armor or weapons you have equipped.
With this rant of your and this nice picture of you, I just want to hug you! :P Here here, sssshhh...everything will be fine...cancel sub!
I give up on Vanguard a LONG time ago. You where very nice and understanding to give them soo much of your trust and patience. Now now, just forget them. They are not worthy of your time.
See, childs sometimes do bad things to keep your attention. I think this is the case of Vanguard and most MMOs. Giving them a rant is way too nice. Just let's go. I feel a lot better now that I don't try to convince WAR devs about the needs of a PvE-grouping server. Their lost if they miss the train; not mine. :P
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well said, much more rational then the OP
I play all ghame
I'm with Teala 100%. Fed up with the whole sorry debarkle. Cancelled, won't play another Sony game and will make a point of steering anyone I know away from this shower.
There was a period where the devs seemed to really try to engage the community on all the little whinges and whines abot every change (around the time that Phathom took over), but i personally prefer the devs be strong enough to make changes that in their professional opinion are for the best of the game, and stick with them. Every time a change is announced 100 or so people threaten to go on a hunger strike until Dev XYZ has their head removed via guillotine - its a good laugh every time
Tiraslee wrote:
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I stopped playing Vanguard some months ago but I still keep an eye on it, and I've been following the debate over character customization with some interest. For me, this was always one area in which the game excelled and I'm far less likely to resub once many of the customization options have been removed. I would be wary of promises to add those options back in "down the road". Vanguard has always been about unfulfilled potential and the promise of jam tomorrow. Anger will dissipate as "outraged" players become used to their new generic avatars, new players will not care about the loss of something they never had and the reintroduction of customization options will drop quietly off the radar. Silius can afford to make these promises now to calm the horses knowing he will not have to make good on them any time soon.
Ok maybe if this game had City of Heros customization., and they ripped it out the game. I would be uber pissed about it. Nothing to call mutiny on SOE about. I still think everyone i see that's the same race in VG look's the fricken same anyways.
Teala... I feel for you, and the commited players of Vanguard. Although we saw different perspectives we never had what I would considered "bad blood" between each other. I would have to agree with you on the sitiuations the Dev team, and SOE has brought on themselves. I can testify you have been an advent supporter of Vanguard, and the more SOE pushes players like yourself away they loose their creditability of providing an adequate game to satisify their loyal customers.
I really do hope that they start considering what they do affects the community, and the future of the game itself.To not address the real issuses with the state of the game, and proceeding to say "working as intended" is to me a slap in the face as a PAYING customer. Even though it has been many months since I have played VG... I really do hope they turn this product around. Not for my sake, but for the sake of loyal customers such as yourself.
Mysticraven
That jackass is the main reason I walked away from that game. At least he is right at home with SOE now. I always said during beta that he reminded me of Smed. He implements changes that his subscribers don't want, and justifies them by saying we don't really know what we want. He is right, we are wrong. If we knew how to make games, someone would pay us to do so... I really hate the guy. After watching him attack and belittle the beta testers.. going as far as publicly chastising the crafting community representative, I'd really rather see the guy in an unemployment line. Maybe flipping burgers, assuming he could even handle that task.
When the game moved to SOE, I actually considered trying it out again in the future, hoping he was one of the devs that was left unemployed... he is incompetent and incapable of learning from his mistakes, as long as he has the reins, this game is headed downhill.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
It seems that it was not intended for you to get dismounted with every action when on horseback. They have changed the code on the Test Server
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=28868
Good thing they test this stuff first, and I guess they do listen to the feedback.
I can really understand where anyone who has played this game since launch might finally blow a gasket over player/dev relations or something that is happening to the game. It certainly hasn't been the smoothest of rides and those who stick it out might just deserve a medal for patience.
However, there are some things that just should not happen. Like the lead dev misleading the community with statements that seriously downplay how much they were changing. There is no real need to take anything away things from the players right now, but instead it really should be giving more things to the players. If there is something the absolutely must be removed like the facial customization for performance issues, then the devs should bow their heads and come to the players with hat in hand and gently explain why these things must be changed BEFORE they spring the changes on players. The very last thing this game needs is some jackass who has a history of being irritating to the player community and lacks decent interpersonal skills as the one to interact with the community.
In all honesty I think SOE has more experience with how much hardship people are willing to put up with before leaving a game and they know the majority of the subscribers left in VG aren't going anywhere. I am just not sure they have a clear goal for what changes need to be made in a effort to attract new players, but I am betting they are not changes will be focused on new people first regardless of how they affect current players.
I really cant believe, people are still playing this game
... and yeah, you deserve a medal of honor.
Believe it. I am having fun, and populations are growing.
What are you playing now Kerith?
And now with his new post "NOT INTENDED" some would also have that on it.
Let's hope this ain't no business plan. A few years ago it would have been the case for me, but not any more. VG isn't an excellent or even decent wow-clone game. It is its own game but it appealed to a lot of old EQ players. This has changed as more and more its being transformed into something I wouldn't have bought at any time. I don't mean you know basic game changes that all games go through but really major revamping of its philosophy and approach and even removal of major functions (like customization). I don't care if they will add something later in x/x/xxxx. They are asking for my money today! Couple that with deception, bait-and-switch, and outright rudeness by developers toward a customer base consisting of mostly mature working professionals- I can't see a single reason to stay. Sony reputation is well established as well, so no faith that the company will do the right thing tomorrow whatsoever. End result my sub for VG cancelled. I will not buy any new mmorpg if published with Sony because it has become an established company trend.
They need to attract new players? It is simple as hell...replace the current CEO ...and do an entire restructuring of upper management and product handling. Analyze consumer base both current and those that left from a marketing perspective. Gear your products to them not to your competitor's market segment. They are in a subscription business model. On average it would cost them 5 more times to get a new customer than it does to retain a current one. Brand (game) loyalty is also a major obstacle to conversion of competitor's market base. Getting a disgruntled consumer back is even more expensive. Keep your retention high for current products then launch new products specifically designed to target other markets segments. Your own base will be strong. Happy consumers will be an asset in viral marketing. Your growth will be cumulative. SOE current way of alienating current subs to appeal to competitor's segments by conversion of products after purchase is just insane business. The fault lie right at the feet of the CEO. I wonder if he has some business contract that insures his seat regardless of the company's revenue stream.
............................................
Perhaps the new character customization they are working on is more of a cartoonish appearance, similiar to that found in a MMORPG by a Canadian developer, the name of which I can't exactly recall, something like MOM, maybe?
I've heard this population is growing BS for months now - I hop on with the all-access pass and see the same 4 servers and same pops all the time
If it was growing all this time as some have said they'd certainly be a little more crowded than they are now
One thing though VG doesn't disappoint in is forum drama , looks like they have pissed off enough VG true fans with this last update to really make the official forums fun again - not quite like the SOE takeover forum fun , but still amusing
I bet I can find some folks trying to claim that VG's pop was growing all the way up to the SOE announcement of sever merges
Bets ?
When the lead dev says he doesn't even know what is being done to the game, it is a surefire way of telling it's time for him to be replaced. His job is to know what goes in the game at all times, otherwise he's obviously "leading" nothing.
Silius is a clueless idiot with ZERO social or PR skills. I think he got the job based on eating more tacos in 5 minutes than the other applicants. Seriously.
The whole team started doign things right, I think. It was looking up. Now they've done a 180 and turned VG back into a steaming pile of ass- I guess they figured it should match the rest of their game lineup.
Bite me, Turbine.
This is SOE we're talking about here. Pulling crap like this is standard operating procedure.
I bet I can find someone saying that 9/11 was due to the buildings needing to expensive repairs, which was solved in a rather controversial way.
Bets?
Althoug I think it will be easier to find people claiming that people said the population was good before the mergers. People stated the population to be fine (still) up until april-may.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I cant wait until tonights Dev chat to see how big of an ASS Silius makes of himself.
-
Orphes, my firend /sigh How are you doing?
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze