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Where's the RP in MMORPG?
Lodeclaw
Member Posts: 148
So, I've been playing MMOs for years just like many of you here... As time progresses, the industry seems to be really getting me into a depressing funk. I can't seem to figure out what makes MMORPGs MMORPGs. That is to say, is there really any RP in an MMORPG?
I don't see any developers pursuing RP as a legitimate part of their MMORPGs. Sure, you can talk funny and pretend you're some retarded vampire prince who's the illegitimate son of the devil himself, but is that RP? The answer, if you weren't sure, is no.
CCP is the only producer who seems to have an interest in promoting good RP. I'm referring of course to their ambulation project, where the purpose is to promote a more realistic, laid back social aspect to a genre that is defined by hundreds of people running around seemingly without any explainable force driving their actions except the split unreasoned decisions of 12-year-olds who got hold of their parents' credit card information and are tragically burdened with too much spare time. (Yes, that was a run-on sentence.)
I feel so disconnected to other players in every MMO I play. Just talking to someone requires you to first flag them down and keep them standing still long enough for you to indicate to them that you wish to initiate some sort of communication. Guilds are often pointless and uninspired. Instant messaging makes RP meaningless unless you and your friends either pretend you're all psychic or have some sort of magic long-range communications. (Unless you're playing a sci-fi MMO, but I have a soft spot for fantasy.)
I want to feel as though the virtual world I choose to spend my spare time in is going to mean something more to me than brainless, button-mashing pseudo-entertainment. RP is about relationships, but that's not what MMORPGs seem to be about.
I want to see the following:
+Dedicated roleplaying servers WITH GMs who are roleplayers and will actually try to help.
+Guild services to help players make the most of their experiences together. (more than a club without a clubhous)
+Instand messaging systems that support RP. (messenger birds, etc)
+Detailed systems for user-created content and quests.
+More that I can't think of at the moment.
So I like to complain and I ramble. If you have something to add regarding this topic, please do. If you don't, then don't.
With love,
-Lode
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Comments
Classic misconception
Roleplay in RPG's has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with the *players*. Not all players roleplay. Most, in fact, do not. Generally most games have a small roleplaying playerbase that try to roleplay for the most part. EQ, DAOC, WOW, Lineage, EVE, UO, DDO, AC, AO etc.... all of them have players that roleplay. Most have several roleplaying communities.
To be honest it always makes me chuckle when I see players complaining about lack of roleplaying in RPG's... The first step of roleplaying is handled by the game: You are given an alternate persona in the game to roleplay. A fighter, a wizard, a rogue/thief, a spaceship captain the list goes on. That is your role in the game... how you choose to PLAY that character is up to you. Will you roleplay? Or will you just be John Doe #13240423 flitting about the game world doing your own thing? That's up to you. No game can FORCE you to roleplay. Sure some games have great environments for it and others have less to work with but the bottom line is that in any game you can roleplay. People roleplay all the time, even on text based IRC... so you ask where the roleplay has gone?
I ask where the roleplayers have gone.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
This is why I've got into tabletop RPing recently. I have hopes for warhammer online though. It seems to have an already well established RP community. I recall the developers stating that WAR will be a good place for roleplayers.
when you gt in to the game..that''s RP..i hope so
Granted it's just as much the players' fault as it is the devs', but with MMOs these days sporting such an outrageous number of servers, the few people who do roleplay often have a hard time finding one another. If a dev were to designate and more importantly enforce a RP server from the get-go, roleplayers would congregate to the same server easily and without any fuss.
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The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
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Enforcing a ruleset would be one of the keys to making it happen. Many MMO's have or had RP specific servers that also became havens for those who could care less to RP. While generally the atmosphere is much "nicer" in such RP servers, they do very little for enhancing the immersion. Then you factor in the actual players how they effectively or ineffectively pull it all together. Though, before the players can effectively do what they enjoy to do, they must be given the tools and the environment to do so.
There isn't a single MMO that I know of that offers either the tools or the proper environment for a RP'er to feel at home. I am still waiting for such a world to exist. Though in the meantime, I just linger within the shelter of a good guild or Corporation in my realm.
I have the simplest ruleset for RP. don't mention worlds outside of the game. good enough for RPers, non-intrusive to everyone else.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
The RP will disapear slowly but sure, to bad.
Don’t take me wrong…
I love RP, I used to hang on RP servers only on neverwinter night and had tons of RP badges in SWG (given by GMs)
But one day I discovered that while the majority of the crowd are nice people, that the pvpers have a few arrogant but are also generaly nice and that the RP community is often the most saddistic community of them all.. I decided to slowly move away from it. Generaly, PVPers are looking for PVP and that’s about it… the rest is just a little past time. The folks that are not into PVP are usually open for some casual hardcore killing and yes a few are loud mouths and will complain but usually harmony can shine with both crowds.
Rpers are different… they want their own server, their own world, their own little wand, their own house, their own arenas. They want to choose their own people and banish whoever they feel like, they don’t want to share, they will go personal on you… If you’re not part of the elitist then you’re a second grade Rper and no one will care about you.
Now you might think I’m inventing this right?
I am seriously not and not everyone but many will agree that for the amount of people that it attracts, supporting Rpers can become a nightmare.
The best RP is just play the game and add a little personality to your character, you’ll enventually live the story no matter what.
Also… for crying out loud, why are some people Rping DUNE on SWG? If you’re from SWG sunrunner server, why is the RP crowd not Rping huuuuuu…. Star wars, why are they Rping DUNE ?
So best crowd to support: everyone else J
First, devs can make all the roleplaying games they want.. just you cannot force people to roleplay the way you want them to. Everyone has their own idea of roleplaying and it may not fit into what you want to roleplay, but that is how it is going to be as long as you have a massive multiplayer game. If someone makes a goofy character and makes them act goofy, that is roleplaying whether or not you like it. If someone makes a dumb blonde and makes them act how they think a dumb blonde would act that is roleplaying... If you want to live in a world where everyone roleplays the way you want them to, you should make your own game and have your own rules and kick everyone else out.. otherwise it isn't going to happen. The fact is that most people who play like to keep it real, and those players are the ones paying the devs bills so of course they aren't going to alienate them from the games. I personally think when people get "too into" a game it is creepy.. I give them a number for a good shrink and they get removed from my friends list immediately.
Deviliscious,
That’s exactly my point J
See, on a standard server, you don’t need that many GMs. I think 2 or 3 should be more then enough to police a solid portion of the game. (depending on the size of the game)
Even on a PVP server, I don’t think you would need that much more if your game is not broken with millions of exploit holes.
An RP server with RP specific rules and such?
Omg… one GM per conversation to make sure they don’t go OOC? A bunch of GM monitoring all the chats to make sure all is good?
A GM in each zone to make sure all is good?
It’s a waste of ressource.
Yea, To expect role playing to be enforced is insane. First off who is to determine who is roleplaying and who isn't? When everyones idea of roleplaying is different there is no way to enforce it. All people have their own ideas of what roleplaying is and trying to control that would be like mind control. LOL!
There really isn't much roleplay to be had in mainstream roleplay games anymore. It's just the way it is. Most players didn't start out roleplaying (even if they started with DnD a lot of them played for the stats). Most MMOs don't even have the items in game or housing etc to make a real roleplay environment. You need way more control over the environment IMO to really roleplay.
Probably the best environment I've found is a player run NWN server (NWN 2 is almost as good). The creators can create roleplay rules etc, run events, players can create guilds connected with and changing the world, the creators can easily and will kick non RPers (because the community is much smaller - so it's feasable). Too bad NWN2 sucked so bad for world creation. Stupid mesh system.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
The meaning (or branding) of RPG has changed over the year.
Since the success of Diablo, a lot of RPGs (sometimes they call it action RPGs) are hack-n-slash games focusing on power of the character and loot. RP has no place in that philosophy.
Personally, I think RP is too time consuming and too weird for most people. Most people just want to easy to get into hack-n-slash, get some cool loot and call it a nite. RP is a distraction. It is also not efficient. For example, if i see a friend online, I can't ask him to get his alt for a dungeon run if I am RPing.
hardcore RP zealots are an utter pain. and will tear apart any community that has less than a few hundred people. Actually this happens pretty often in second life(there are a lot of RP Sims, a decent Dune one to boot). it's actually just much easier and more fun(for everyone else) to just ban anyone who is a hardcore RPer, the general rules are "you are yourself, but if you haven't trained something through the guilds don't use it", "don't bother mentioning anything but this SIM and related SIMs, you'll be wasting your typing".
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
It actually used to be there in the early early days of the MMORPG. Now it's been completely smashed out by the loot whores and min/maxers
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Its between the O and the G mate =D.
Garrik
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"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
As Elnator already pointed out, the idea that the RP in MMORPG refers to players actually role-playing is a classic misconception.
The RP in MMORPG does not stand alone, but together with G in "RPG". RPG refers to the game being a computer RPG, which has never been about role-playing but about character advancement and leaving the success of (many) actions to the character's skills instead of your own. The latter is in contrast to e.g. a first-person shooter where the player's skill at aiming is used instead of rolling "To Hit" for your character.
Some have surely added the role-playing layer to computer RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Eye of the Beholder by deciding their D&D Paladin won't use healing spells on the Warrior who attacked without offering surrender first, thus wiping their entire group. Some might even have created an entirely new group afterwards because save-games are not proper RP. (I exaggerate for the sake of making a point.) However, the computer RPG genre itself has never been about role-playing.
Character advancement and storytelling (requiring immersion) have been the focus, both which are kept in the MMORPGs, but with much more freedom than in single-player games. This gives a great back-drop for role-playing, but to ask (or often even demand) that developers enforce a role-playing policy on specific realms has never been to my liking though. They should work on immersion (including character naming rules) in the entire game, and the rest is up to the players, imo.
Hm. I didn't meant to rant though...
Some comments on Lodeclaw's points before dinner:
+Dedicated roleplaying servers WITH GMs who are roleplayers and will actually try to help.
In-game support staff should never have been labelled "Game Masters", adding to the idea that they're supposed to have anything to do with running storylines and such. They're there to assist you with bugs and such. The lore and game content is what's there to play with. The developers are the Game Master, and they're already playing with you through all the NPCs they put in the game.
+Guild services to help players make the most of their experiences together. (more than a club without a clubhous)
Not sure what you're looking for, but robust and flexible guild tools is always great. Guild housing, flexible guild structure, tabards, etc should be mandatory. I see it more as a strong community / social focus rather than specifically role-playing support though.
+Instand messaging systems that support RP. (messenger birds, etc)
A creative idea indeed. Having a logical way that your messages get to people far away adds to immersion. This is where I think a sci-fi game has a strong advantage over a fantasy one.
+Detailed systems for user-created content and quests.
Player-driven game content. Mmmmm. One of my main wishes for an MMOG, but also one that I fear would either be too restricted to be really fun, or too open to exploiting. Or considered to be useless by many players. Ryzom added the possibility for players to create scenarios others could play. Big plus to them. Too bad they're hardly around anymore.
I think sandbox type mmo's encourage more rp, but we seem to be moving more toward quest based games with linear progression.
The other thing is some IP's are more conducive to RP. It's easier for me to imagine myself living in the Star Wars universe than being an elf in WOW. I think as a kid, I invented backstories for Star Wars when I used to sit in class and day dream.
The other thing is voice programs like ventrillo and teamspeak, while invaluable in raid and small group situations to maximize success, is a step away from rp. Suddenly the big brawny warrior sounds like an 11 year old, the beautfiul sultry elf sounds like my father, the dwarf with mithril armor and large axe sounds like my sister, etc.
So I think some conveniences integrated into mmo design also are leading us away from rp.
I'm pretty amazed by some of the things people have said about RP in this thread.
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about it. There are a lot of text-based muds that do exactly what you guys are talking about. RP enforced environments, where everything is in done in RP and everything, even the global chat has an RP explanation.
Now whether all this would work in a larger more main-stream game is IMO a pointless discussion because RP in itself is not mainstream.
It's not insane at all and is currently being done successfully in many text based muds. Here's one good example:
http://www.lusternia.com/
The RP in this game is VERY impressive. I don't ever see people acting or talking out of character. The GMs are there but the only OOC talk that happens with them is a little bit of it in the newbie channel as they help new people get used to some of the technical aspects of the game. And even that is very minimal and handled in context most of the time anyway. Other than that the GMs act like characters in the world, just very wise ones who go around magically helping people when they need it.
As for forcing everyone to RP the same way, well there ARE certain easily agreed upon guidelines. Like you don't talk about anything that doesn't exist in the game world that your character wouldn't know about and design a background and personality for your character that fits into the existing fiction of the world and then you keep your actions within that frame work.
And in this particular game(as in many others) if your act out of character you will be penalized. The GMs are there and they keep an eye on things. And anyone that is being a real problem will eventually be banned.
The bottom line is, games are doing it, and it does work.
I see a lot of misconceptions.
I've roleplayed in IRC (Dungeons and Dragons) since the late 1980's.... the only "tools" we have are our immagination and /me (/emote for you mmo players). We don't have /bow, /kiss /hug nor do we have gorgeous graphical wonderlands placed before us to roleplay in. We don't have inns and houses and guild halls and wilderness. We don't have monsters that fight back other than in our own immagination.
And yet, in IRC, I have seen better, and more, roleplay than any MMO. Why is that? Because the PLAYERS don't roleplay. You can try to lay the blame at the dev's feet all you like but the bottom line is that there is little to no roleplay in most MMORPG's because the players don't bother to. And those who DESIRE to don't bother to form a community. If you want to roleplay, then roleplay, don't carp and whine about how the devs haven't given you the tools you need to do so. The only TOOL you need to roleplay is that grey matter inside your head (if it all hasn't already leaked out).
Sorry for the rant but I am sick and tired of people blaming lack of roleplay on the game developer. You can't code roleplay.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
The reason it works in many MUDS and probably also smaller MMOGs is that the people who choose to participate there are all interested in the role-playing in the first place.
I think the only way to get an "uncontaminated" role-playing server in any bigger MMOG is to add limitations and penalties on in the game-play (levelling, getting equipment, communication, etc) that nobody will bother playing with except those who find role-playing their main enjoyment of the game.
All or most of these things have been done in text based MUDs for decades now. I really wonder why some of this hasn't filtered into some of the graphical MMOs. Asside from UO and EVE, who have supported some player generated content, I can't think of any other MMO that has.
I also agree with a previous poster that the sand-box style games lend themseles to RP better. Sadly, the level-grind, item-grind games seem to draw the big subscription numbers at the moment. I think this is going to change though as people start to get bored of that style of game-play., since it's being re-hashed so heavily.
Before the Game and after the Online.
I would not count on it. People still buy enough Madden Football to make it best selling year after year. Many big blockbuster moves are sequals.
People like to get more content (hence sequels for movies & expansion for MMORPGs) in entertainment that they are familiar with.
And there is nothing wrong with level/quest-grind hack-n-slash gameplay.
And I don't think RP will work at all. It does not scale with numbers. You just need a few to break the illusion of RP. And no one, not even blizzard, would spend enough GM resources to monitor & correct for every spoken line even on a few servers.
The mud I'm currently playing does exactly this. Everyone has an RP rating and acting out of charcater gets your RP rating lowered. As it gets lower you start lose privilages and eventually you get and XP penalty towards leveling, and ultimately can get banned if you continue to be a problem case. And appropriately enough the first privilage that someone will lose as their RP rating drops is their access to any global chat channels