And there is nothing wrong with level/quest-grind hack-n-slash gameplay.
You may be happy with that, but there are a lot of people who have grown tired of that and are looking for something a little deeper, more immersive and a bit less mind-numbingly repetitive. If you're happy with the current offerings that are out there then good for you. Personally I'm bored of it and looking for something a bit deeper.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
And I don't think RP will work at all. It does not scale with numbers. You just need a few to break the illusion of RP. And no one, not even blizzard, would spend enough GM resources to monitor & correct for every spoken line even on a few servers.
Every spoken line doesn't have to be monitored, just the global chats and that wouldn't take very many GMs. Tells of course can be ignored by the players themselves by simply putting someone who's OOC a lot on ignore.
I posted on other forums a bazillion ideas to get more table top like roleplay into MMORPGs. However, I have since realized it is not possible.
You can do a semi-roleplay in MMORPGs, nothing more, and I'll tell you why. For REAL in depth roleplay, you must have TWO sides. Imagine playing soccer, with only one team. You could devise some rules for everyone to run down field and kick the ball through a maze and itnto the goal, but it wouldn't be the same as two teams.
In MMORPGs, there is the HUMAN team, vs the COmputer team, So one side is real people, the other side is computer scripts that never change. YOU can roleplay a fighter talking to your Wizard friend, but the two of you can't roleplay with the Computer script, so it's one sided.
PvP doesn't work either, because there is no referee. Imagine a soccer game with no referee to blow the whistle, call penalties, tell everyone what the score was and so forth. It's still not geared for Roleplay, beucase it's just Huimans bashing each other, with no real coherent Story, which is usually told by the Referee, the Game Master.
Putting Game Masters into MMORPGs is not practical, or feasible. To many players on each server, it just won't ever happen.
SOLUTION:
Take MMORPGs for what they are. Have fun with them. Do roleplay lite, where you play a fighter, and your friend playes a wizard, but there's no real story, because you just have computer scripts to interact with, or other players to bash.
All of these reasons for why roleplay doesn't work in MMOs are the reason it did (and still kinda does except the engine is pretty old) work in NWN player run servers, because the server creators created the backdrop world and the history with ruins etc, and then they would run some of the antagonist gods etc, but most of the good vs evil was run by players, through guilds, housing, storylines (which were fueled both by DMs and player actions) and other etc etc etc. It is just way way way better than table top because instead of just 6 or so 'people' in the world to interact with, you've got like hundreds who 'live' there and who you converse with. The plots were that much deeper and intertwined with each other. It was like 200 people playing table top in the same 'world'. It was friggin awesome. I would love to have a chance to start a new experience like that again. I can't even go back to table top because not having that computer engine adds so much overhead to the game. I spent more time with the damn rules than I did playing the game.
Sorry for the unparagraphed blob. I'm at work, and time is precious.
nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1 20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
All of these reasons for why roleplay doesn't work in MMOs are the reason it did (and still kinda does except the engine is pretty old) work in NWN player run servers, because the server creators created the backdrop world and the history with ruins etc, and then they would run some of the antagonist gods etc, but most of the good vs evil was run by players, through guilds, housing, storylines (which were fueled both by DMs and player actions) and other etc etc etc. It is just way way way better than table top because instead of just 6 or so 'people' in the world to interact with, you've got like hundreds who 'live' there and who you converse with. The plots were that much deeper and intertwined with each other. It was like 200 people playing table top in the same 'world'. It was friggin awesome. I would love to have a chance to start a new experience like that again. I can't even go back to table top because not having that computer engine adds so much overhead to the game. I spent more time with the damn rules than I did playing the game. Sorry for the unparagraphed blob. I'm at work, and time is precious.
It works for NWN because it is on a small scale with only hundreds of players. And in some sense, why do we need this on a MMO which needs to cater to at least hundred of thousands of players, if not millions?
You can always to back to NWN and play there. It is doubtful that you will ever interact with more than hundreds of people anyway. So it is irrelevant whether the world has a few hundred people, or a few millions.
Classic misconception Roleplay in RPG's has nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with the *players*. Not all players roleplay. Most, in fact, do not. Generally most games have a small roleplaying playerbase that try to roleplay for the most part. EQ, DAOC, WOW, Lineage, EVE, UO, DDO, AC, AO etc.... all of them have players that roleplay. Most have several roleplaying communities. To be honest it always makes me chuckle when I see players complaining about lack of roleplaying in RPG's... The first step of roleplaying is handled by the game: You are given an alternate persona in the game to roleplay. A fighter, a wizard, a rogue/thief, a spaceship captain the list goes on. That is your role in the game... how you choose to PLAY that character is up to you. Will you roleplay? Or will you just be John Doe #13240423 flitting about the game world doing your own thing? That's up to you. No game can FORCE you to roleplay. Sure some games have great environments for it and others have less to work with but the bottom line is that in any game you can roleplay. People roleplay all the time, even on text based IRC... so you ask where the roleplay has gone? I ask where the roleplayers have gone.
Some games are very hostile to RP in. They have named bosses. Little emotes. No reason for community interaction aside from spamming LFG! No housing. No player run anything. Clothing limitations based on classes. Classes themselves are limiting. Everything in the game is geared towards fighting with very little of it personal.
On the other hand, SWG sorta forced players to roleplay:
You'd get battle fatigue from fighting and would need to go to the cantina to watch a player entertainer dance or play music in order for it the fatigue to be lifted.
You'd need to check your harvestors or factories to make sure they were functioning properly.
You'd spend hours shopping in various different player run stores.
You'd lead hunting parties insearch for a krayt dragon.
This is RP without being called RP - they called it game design. They tricked people into RPing and it was great to see. Is it odd that most of the RP game design was nerfed or removed from the game when the NGE hit?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Well one could ask where the "rp" was in RPG's when they started. Unless you sat at your computer playing Wizardry by yourself... while talking to yourself.
In many ways... "role playing" was meant to mean the role you played.. (yes those are two different things).
With D&D where you sat around a table with others... obviously it meant something else.
In MMO's... I saw a lot of RP in UO.. and some of the other early MMO's. Not so much since..
In fact if EQ2 (as an example) had been my first computer game.. I would forever believe that "role play" meant... telling a really twisted sexually based story. Have all that surrounded with drama as if the pixels were real... and ya that's why I don't RP in MMO's any more.
Comments
You may be happy with that, but there are a lot of people who have grown tired of that and are looking for something a little deeper, more immersive and a bit less mind-numbingly repetitive. If you're happy with the current offerings that are out there then good for you. Personally I'm bored of it and looking for something a bit deeper.
Every spoken line doesn't have to be monitored, just the global chats and that wouldn't take very many GMs. Tells of course can be ignored by the players themselves by simply putting someone who's OOC a lot on ignore.
I posted on other forums a bazillion ideas to get more table top like roleplay into MMORPGs. However, I have since realized it is not possible.
You can do a semi-roleplay in MMORPGs, nothing more, and I'll tell you why. For REAL in depth roleplay, you must have TWO sides. Imagine playing soccer, with only one team. You could devise some rules for everyone to run down field and kick the ball through a maze and itnto the goal, but it wouldn't be the same as two teams.
In MMORPGs, there is the HUMAN team, vs the COmputer team, So one side is real people, the other side is computer scripts that never change. YOU can roleplay a fighter talking to your Wizard friend, but the two of you can't roleplay with the Computer script, so it's one sided.
PvP doesn't work either, because there is no referee. Imagine a soccer game with no referee to blow the whistle, call penalties, tell everyone what the score was and so forth. It's still not geared for Roleplay, beucase it's just Huimans bashing each other, with no real coherent Story, which is usually told by the Referee, the Game Master.
Putting Game Masters into MMORPGs is not practical, or feasible. To many players on each server, it just won't ever happen.
SOLUTION:
Take MMORPGs for what they are. Have fun with them. Do roleplay lite, where you play a fighter, and your friend playes a wizard, but there's no real story, because you just have computer scripts to interact with, or other players to bash.
If you want REAL honest to goodness ROLEPLAY that has a lot of depth, and a story, and two sides, then Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition will be ONLINE, and that's the way to go:
MMORPG Maker
All of these reasons for why roleplay doesn't work in MMOs are the reason it did (and still kinda does except the engine is pretty old) work in NWN player run servers, because the server creators created the backdrop world and the history with ruins etc, and then they would run some of the antagonist gods etc, but most of the good vs evil was run by players, through guilds, housing, storylines (which were fueled both by DMs and player actions) and other etc etc etc. It is just way way way better than table top because instead of just 6 or so 'people' in the world to interact with, you've got like hundreds who 'live' there and who you converse with. The plots were that much deeper and intertwined with each other. It was like 200 people playing table top in the same 'world'. It was friggin awesome. I would love to have a chance to start a new experience like that again. I can't even go back to table top because not having that computer engine adds so much overhead to the game. I spent more time with the damn rules than I did playing the game.
Sorry for the unparagraphed blob. I'm at work, and time is precious.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
It works for NWN because it is on a small scale with only hundreds of players. And in some sense, why do we need this on a MMO which needs to cater to at least hundred of thousands of players, if not millions?
You can always to back to NWN and play there. It is doubtful that you will ever interact with more than hundreds of people anyway. So it is irrelevant whether the world has a few hundred people, or a few millions.
Some games are very hostile to RP in. They have named bosses. Little emotes. No reason for community interaction aside from spamming LFG! No housing. No player run anything. Clothing limitations based on classes. Classes themselves are limiting. Everything in the game is geared towards fighting with very little of it personal.
On the other hand, SWG sorta forced players to roleplay:
You'd get battle fatigue from fighting and would need to go to the cantina to watch a player entertainer dance or play music in order for it the fatigue to be lifted.
You'd need to check your harvestors or factories to make sure they were functioning properly.
You'd spend hours shopping in various different player run stores.
You'd lead hunting parties insearch for a krayt dragon.
This is RP without being called RP - they called it game design. They tricked people into RPing and it was great to see. Is it odd that most of the RP game design was nerfed or removed from the game when the NGE hit?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
This looks freakin awesome! I can't believe I wasn't aware of this...
Well one could ask where the "rp" was in RPG's when they started. Unless you sat at your computer playing Wizardry by yourself... while talking to yourself.
In many ways... "role playing" was meant to mean the role you played.. (yes those are two different things).
With D&D where you sat around a table with others... obviously it meant something else.
In MMO's... I saw a lot of RP in UO.. and some of the other early MMO's. Not so much since..
In fact if EQ2 (as an example) had been my first computer game.. I would forever believe that "role play" meant... telling a really twisted sexually based story. Have all that surrounded with drama as if the pixels were real... and ya that's why I don't RP in MMO's any more.