Although I read thru this forum and many others and shake my head in disbelief, and I realize yet one more prime opportunity that SOE has truly screwed up.
One company on top of a gold mind of MMO's and time after time they just can't get it right.
(Sadly, some of the links don't work now because they are part of the old FLS {pre-release} forums) Then do a search on the current FLS boards about the Spanish Server and marketing in Spain (IIRC there was none and hence the spanish server is all but dead?) This is not just whining about percieved past wrongs of SOE in relation to another game - this is a direct comment on SOE's performance in relation to THIS GAME.
And it is not just a "whine" based on perceived wrongs... in relation to this game there are established facts. What upset many of the "fans" of PotBS was that this game needed good marketing and a good (retail) launch to have the best possible chance at a good start.
It didn't get that.
It may not have made a difference - but we will never know.
The problem is that filling this forum with this won't get you anywhere really. You just make those who like certain games annoyed and it won't really help your cause at all.
And it is really a waste of space since people by now should be very aware that most game companies does NOT listen to the players in most of the cases.
I've played tons of mmorpg's and sent suggestions to the game companies to make changes which ofcourse were met with a thanks for your mail but we will not do anything.
The only thing people really can do as regardning games to show that it's doesn't have their support is to forget about the game and find something else to play.
There should really be a site callled "whiners heaven" or "games I hate" or something like that so people could vent their frustration about game companies and their lack of listening to players etc...
Then you could rally people for your cause which have an interest in spending energy doing a crusade against some game company.
As for mmorpg's forum flaming and complaints for games belongs in the personal review and not tons of topics which is made by a unhappy player to gather support for his cause.
In most of the time it has the opposite effect you will just make people more interested in what this game is more about.
Example.. I didn't play SWG from the start and SWG vets complained about the game being ruined, then I felt I had to try the game and found it very interesting and I like it.
Ofcourse I can't compare my experience with how the game originally was but then again it's not my point.
People get curious about the game and instead of making people desert the game you actually contribute to give the game a boost in players. All PR is good PR.
I really understand the frustration but trying to make a game company change their mind you either need to sit in the board or sit on a big share stake in the company to have any influence at all.
The problem is that filling this forum with this won't get you anywhere really. You just make those who like certain games annoyed and it won't really help your cause at all.
...
Who said I want to "get anywhere"? I don't have a cause in this case.
I thought my post said what I needed to say... did you read it?
(Sadly, some of the links don't work now because they are part of the old FLS {pre-release} forums) Then do a search on the current FLS boards about the Spanish Server and marketing in Spain (IIRC there was none and hence the spanish server is all but dead?) This is not just whining about percieved past wrongs of SOE in relation to another game - this is a direct comment on SOE's performance in relation to THIS GAME.
And it is not just a "whine" based on perceived wrongs... in relation to this game there are established facts. What upset many of the "fans" of PotBS was that this game needed good marketing and a good (retail) launch to have the best possible chance at a good start.
It didn't get that.
It may not have made a difference - but we will never know.
Except, to be fair Cyrus, the OP didn't really list any of the real, rational mistakes by SOE. He basically made up a whole bunch, or, more precisely, rehashed some of the complaints about SOE from previous games. Its poor form to try to make a point about actual wrongs by listing made up ones.
I mean, really, the OP is just ridiculous: He says he thinks SOE pushed them to release SOON so they wouldn't compete with "next gen" mmos!!!!! PotBS delayed TWICE with SOE on board...and, thanks to five years of dev time, was no where neat "next gen" anyway.
He says they pushed to release within the timeframe of the movie!!!! But the game released in the following YEAR!
He says SOE probably used Vanguard as a selling point!!!! But the Vanguard disaster was public knowledge WHILE negotiations were going on.
He says the offered to make FLS rich!!!! But FLS devs said they were financially solvent without the deal, over and over again.
Look, you know I've been right there with you criticizing this deal...and all the ACTUAL mistakes that SOE made with FLS. And, if you look back in this thread, I list the "real" issues SOE brought, much like you did. But, I also point out that posts like the OP's are HARMFUL because, basically, they get people to believe, and argue over, FALSE statements, while the real problems are ignored.
IMO, the respondants are justified to attack the OP's premise...because, as he lists it, it's false. Your points, and mine, about the marketing and distribution, aren't. But the thread isn't focusing on that. Perhaps if it was brought up again....without the ridiculous OP.
Aye I read your post.. as for the smile no idea why it ended up there at the top it was to be located at the bottom.
You're defending people's right to "comment" SOE's poor performance.. so if that's a cause I don't know why you bothered to post in the1st place.
Making a statement like yours and imagine you will be a neutral one makes me wonder why you bothered.
People should be allowed to have an opinion as for games and what they think about it, but seriously this type of topics has been haunting these forums like forever and some of the posting people seems not to be able to stop complain abot the games. Some has like hundreds of flaming posts which starts to be more annoying than the SOE's or other game companies poor performance.
So people like me is reaaaaaaaaallly tired of logging on mmorpg.com's site and see all this flaming... this is my complaint and it's more relevant because the flaming topic stack makes mmorpg.com's site become more unserious imo.
People should focus their energy on the games to come than the games which is in their past... it will NOT change because I really doubt game companies send people in here to read the flames anyway.
Yeah the OP was pretty lame. I was more responding to the "You are simply bagging SOE because you never got over SWG!" type flame we get here.
Which brings me to:
Originally posted by funnylumpy
...So people like me is reaaaaaaaaallly tired of logging on mmorpg.com's site and see all this flaming... this is my complaint and it's more relevant because the flaming topic stack makes mmorpg.com's site become more unserious imo. People should focus their energy on the games to come than the games which is in their past... it will NOT change because I really doubt game companies send people in here to read the flames anyway.
You contributed to it in this case. And you clearly didn't even look at the link I posted because if you had you would see that one of the Developers had contributed to that thread.
Rick Saada of FLS did visit these boards often and read the threads. I don't know if he does still visit?
How you choose to invest your energy is up to you and I thank you for your sage advice on how I should spend mine... but for myself I am not done with this game yet and will be playing on the Aussie server "soon".
(The Aussie server has nothing to do with SOE BTW).
FLS made a crappy game not SOE, SOE just profits off crappy games, good for them. If anything you people playing POTBS should be thankful. SOE is keeping your crappy games alive. The rest of us dont care and move on.
Maybe... or maybe I tired reading forum fillings which really does not lead to anything. In your case you don't have a better arguments so I won't hold it against you. If a complaint about a game directed to the game creators/company isn't changing the game why go in all forums complain about it?? This does ofcourse not go for only SOE and it's games but for all other games which people is flaming and crying that sucks. I mean seriously if people really believe that filling the forums in mmorpg and like with your endless whine about how much you dislike certain games you're really have little to spend your energy on. Try to get over it and move on. I mean if it was important for your life and I mean for your real life you could go out in the streets protesting but since this is a game it's no worth getting angry for. I have happily moved on from games I didn't like.. Try to focus your energy on something else... nit or start drawing a picture.... maybe create your own perfect game.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Hi Bountytaker, Yeah the OP was pretty lame. I was more responding to the "You are simply bagging SOE because you never got over SWG!" type flame we get here. Which brings me to:
Originally posted by funnylumpy
...So people like me is reaaaaaaaaallly tired of logging on mmorpg.com's site and see all this flaming... this is my complaint and it's more relevant because the flaming topic stack makes mmorpg.com's site become more unserious imo. People should focus their energy on the games to come than the games which is in their past... it will NOT change because I really doubt game companies send people in here to read the flames anyway.
You contributed to it in this case. And you clearly didn't even look at the link I posted because if you had you would see that one of the Developers had contributed to that thread.
Rick Saada of FLS did visit these boards often and read the threads. I don't know if he does still visit?
How you choose to invest your energy is up to you and I thank you for your sage advice on how I should spend mine... but for myself I am not done with this game yet and will be playing on the Aussie server "soon".
(The Aussie server has nothing to do with SOE BTW).
I didn't bother to go check out your link it serves no purpose in doing so. My only consern is that this issue about games being bad etc.. continues to come up over and over again and over again..
No matter how it is it will never end I guess. At least it's worth a try to get some people to start to think.
I guess it's a lost attempt. People never change it would seem.
Maybe... or maybe I tired reading forum fillings which really does not lead to anything. In your case you don't have a better arguments so I won't hold it against you. If a complaint about a game directed to the game creators/company isn't changing the game why go in all forums complain about it?? This does ofcourse not go for only SOE and it's games but for all other games which people is flaming and crying that sucks. I mean seriously if people really believe that filling the forums in mmorpg and like with your endless whine about how much you dislike certain games you're really have little to spend your energy on. Try to get over it and move on. I mean if it was important for your life and I mean for your real life you could go out in the streets protesting but since this is a game it's no worth getting angry for. I have happily moved on from games I didn't like.. Try to focus your energy on something else... nit or start drawing a picture.... maybe create your own perfect game.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
As for mocking my posting is quite funny. *shurgs*
As for SOE and their loyal complainers I guess these guys still play and hope SOE will change.
I've played several games as stated in earlier the games never change for the better. We just have to adapt or leave simple as that. There is no one needing to have a superiour mindset to see it's not working.
SOE is still here and will be so for a few more years maybe many more.. even if SOE went bankrupt and all the games were closed down I guess people had to find something else to whine about.
There's plenty of other games which has it's loyal complain club I'm starting to think these are actually people that has invested so much time in the game they won't quit and they're still torturing themselves playing.. I hope not for your own sake.
Best tip is to find a game you like and leave the ones you don't like behind they will never change to the way you like anyway.
Maybe... or maybe I tired reading forum fillings which really does not lead to anything. In your case you don't have a better arguments so I won't hold it against you. If a complaint about a game directed to the game creators/company isn't changing the game why go in all forums complain about it?? This does ofcourse not go for only SOE and it's games but for all other games which people is flaming and crying that sucks. I mean seriously if people really believe that filling the forums in mmorpg and like with your endless whine about how much you dislike certain games you're really have little to spend your energy on. Try to get over it and move on. I mean if it was important for your life and I mean for your real life you could go out in the streets protesting but since this is a game it's no worth getting angry for. I have happily moved on from games I didn't like.. Try to focus your energy on something else... nit or start drawing a picture.... maybe create your own perfect game.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
Says you. By your comments, you obviously *agree* with the chronic complainers at least in spirit, so to *you* this guys post "serves no purpose".
I agree with him though, so to me, his post does serve a purpose. It serves the purpose of showing me that I'm not alone in thinking that the endless litany of complaints by an ENDLESSLY vocal minority against EVERY game out there gets really tired.
You make the assumption that the poster has a "superiour (sic) than thou mindset" (feeling inadequate?) and that "complaining about complaining" is "whining" and a refusal to see "the reasons for the complaints"
Again, this is all because *you* have a bias. Many of us are more than intelligent enough to understand the "reasons" behind the complaints the first 235,000 times they're posted. Sometimes *GASP* many of us might agree, but you know what, sometimes we ACTUALLY disagree! Thats right! The whole world doesnt necessarily see things the way you and other crusaders feel we "obviously" should.
You choose to come to a public forum and make a full-time job out of bitching then prepared to be bitched AT. As for whose complaining is more or less valid and whose has nobler or more nefarious intent, thats all really academic isnt it? Each side will think the other is wasting space.
I'll tell you this though... Even in the cases where I AGREE with the issue, I cant stand the way a large number of immature posters go about addressing it. With the histrionics and the ad hominem attacks against faceless corporations or individual devs, and the crazed conspiracy theory hyperbole, and the ENDLESS spamming.
I think folks calling the borderline insane on the futility of their crusade and the obnoxious nature of their approach is more than justified in a PUBLIC forum.
There is nothing wrong with a reasoned dialogue about the shortcomings of a game or a company. Especially one which might lead to some constructive and valid criticism. Posting endless litanies of outrage like a 2 year old and then going nuts about "the first ammendment" and lashing out wildly when someone questions you on it is bound to get you bitched at.
.... SOE is still here and will be so for a few more years maybe many more.. even if SOE went bankrupt and all the games were closed down I guess people had to find something else to whine about. ...
"Under the new structure, SOE will continue to develop its games for the PC and the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3®) computer entertainment system, and SOE President John Smedley will report to {Kazuo} Hirai."
Maybe it's just me - but I doubt Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) will just sit back if SOE screws up?
This was a multi-millon dollar deal and really SOE effed it. SOE may have been able to afford that - but for FLS it really was a one time deal. I doubt they will be passing on glowing reviews to other would be SOE partners? Developers talk to Developers. Based on what has happened I would think Platform Publishing (SOE) will be hard pressed to sign up another developer the likes of FLS?
.... SOE is still here and will be so for a few more years maybe many more.. even if SOE went bankrupt and all the games were closed down I guess people had to find something else to whine about. ...
"Under the new structure, SOE will continue to develop its games for the PC and the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3®) computer entertainment system, and SOE President John Smedley will report to {Kazuo} Hirai."
Maybe it's just me - but I doubt Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) will just sit back if SOE screws up?
This was a multi-millon dollar deal and really SOE effed it. SOE may have been able to afford that - but for FLS it really was a one time deal. I doubt they will be passing on glowing reviews to other would be SOE partners? Developers talk to Developers. Based on what has happened I would think Platform Publishing (SOE) will be hard pressed to sign up another developer the likes of FLS?
I don't know...when we tried generating discussion about the distribution issues back in Dec and Jan, FLS folks came flying in and blamed the stores/store personel, and defended SOE's distribution piece. Even when posters pointed out that boxes got shipped without the pre-order codes inside, and European distribution was delayed, they still defended SOE...even while SOE themselves would say little on the matter.
Granted, we haven't heard much from them lately...but there haven't really been any distribution issues lately, so who knows.
I just don't think FLS' opinion of SOE is so "cut and dry"....even if some PotBS customers opinions on the distribution are.
As for SOE and their loyal complainers I guess these guys still play and hope SOE will change.
It's not so much about complaining as it is a feeling of compassion for a game that used to be fun. It isn't easy to just ignore an MMO, because it is alive, it changes and people can envision a future where the game could be fun, if only x and x are implemented (or not implemented).
To voice your opinion about something that doesn't seem right or fair isn't always complaining, its a demand for fairness. If nobody said anything, horrible games would be on the shelves month after month.
Ok so don't buy them? Sure, but what is to stop them from producing a terrible game the next year? These people who passionately 'complain' about games are the people who ensure quality of these games.
Also, who is to say people on this forum aren't actively subscribed to $OmE MMO account. Those who would dare to demand that, on top of not buying your pos game, unless changes are made, I will never do business with you again.
Originally posted by HDomni Originally posted by brostyn Is it a coincidence that all SOE games suck?
Thread over. /nod
People say SOE is the place where games go to die. SOE seems to have a habit of picking up badly done games and letting it rust without giving any effort.
Anyone making excuses for SOE is truely uninformed.
You claim it wasn't SOE's fault with SWG?
SOE lied many times to their players and released such a pathetic game change I really can't believe it wasn't a gag.
How can you blame LA for that? LA wanted a game change. LA wanted improvements. SOE dropped the ball BIG TIME. LA wanted results and SOE couldn't produce. The game was stagnent because none of the bugs were getting fixed. It was mismanaged from the start.
This is why for the next MMO LA went to Bioware. A company that has come through for them.
Don't make excuses for SOE. They have shown they will constantly lie to their customers. They over and over again release games not ready expecting people to pay for beta.
SOE is pathetic. Very bad buisness to be involved with as a player and developer.
LOL here we go again with the club of SOE haters... whine whine whine... so far I haven't seen a game living up to my expectations... and I don't whine about it no one is forcing people to play the games. Kinda sad to see people can't get over it and play something else instead of filling forums with complaints. As far as I'm conserned most mmo games will be subject to changes or have final changes before launch which will not be to many peoples likening. Eve online changed for the worse as an example and I hoped it would get better but it didn't and I changed to other games instead of wasting my energy on being frustrated on why ccp is not making the game better.
Its a shame that its only really the SWG Vets spreading their hatred o SOE to other games, and as far as this forum go's Mmorpg.com should do something about them, they gave em their SWG Vets refuge but obviously they are not happy with that either .
Having heard a lot of threads about the whole soe swg thing. I have to say that recently when i speak to many gamers online the general concensus was that the game was riddled with bugs before any changes came about and that many were already threatening to leave the game as a result, nge just seems to have been the last straw that's all.
So would the game have died in anycase? nge or not ? i'm not being ignorant btw just asking the question
its just that the game seems to be talked about by soe haters as though it were some golden coated be all and end all game. but when i talk to people who actualy meet up online in various other games they all tell me they were already going to leave as the game was boring and full of bug. so its kinda "who do i listen to"?
Having heard a lot of threads about the whole soe swg thing. I have to say that recently when i speak to many gamers online the general concensus was that the game was riddled with bugs before any changes came about and that many were already threatening to leave the game as a result, nge just seems to have been the last straw that's all. So would the game have died in anycase? nge or not ? i'm not being ignorant btw just asking the question its just that the game seems to be talked about by soe haters as though it were some golden coated be all and end all game. but when i talk to people who actualy meet up online in various other games they all tell me they were already going to leave as the game was boring and full of bug. so its kinda "who do i listen to"?
maybe you should just play all the games SOE has to offer and then form your own opinion?
i didn't even take smed's word about station pass going to be home to a lot of so/so mmo's and that was soe's goal.
nothing on the station pass has ever been very fun for me. a bunch of 'not really fun' games for one price is still not fun for me.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Here is about all I'll say, and this comes from one of the more legendary SOE haters of old.....
Yet its old. Not current. I don't blame SOE for any problems with POTBS. (Well except for when they caused the game to lose an extra 4 hours of downtime when they were updating the launcher, then I just laughed lol.) A lot of people are right, SOE is being charged with things they are absolutely innocent of.
Do I feel sorry for them? Not at all. They EARNED the reputation they have. A lot of the issues with SWG were more about how they went about doing it. It wasn't the decision of LA to have people get ganked in game by NPC's for protesting the combat upgrade in game. Lucasarts didn't order a full-fledged propoganda offensive that silenced any and all negative reviews, all the while "welcoming constructive feedback."
Based on their bad past decisions, SOE has given itself a real black eye in the gaming world. Anything they touch is going to cause controversey. The heads at FLS recognized that, by conceding that a lot of people who were interested in the game would now no longer be.
So while SOE is innocent of any of the problems associated with POTBS, one can't feel sympathy for a company that earned its horrible reputation, and is now forced to live with it.
In the case of POTBS, no SOE didn't make the game and isn't responsible for how the gameplay turns out.
However, SOE made a bad situation worse with all their marketing and distribution experience. They fouled up the patcher, the fouled up distribution for launch day in many ways, they trashed the preorder and early boarding, billing, etc. There was a giant laundry list on flying labs website about SOE issues.
To me it seemed SOE did almost everything they could do wrong that would start this game off in the worst possible way.
The EQ and EQ2 expansions launched around the same time and didn't seem to suffer these same problems or maybe the people it affected are just that subdued it was business as usual.
I totally understand the need to vent, rant and let out the feelings that a lot of us may share in this thread. The only problem is, we're still seen as the minority to companies the likes of SOE. All they see is $'s and as long as that's still flowing we're nothing more than a splinter in their finger.
I totally understand the need to vent, rant and let out the feelings that a lot of us may share in this thread. The only problem is, we're still seen as the minority to companies the likes of SOE. All they see is $'s and as long as that's still flowing we're nothing more than a splinter in their finger.
What was I've been trying to point out for people it's all about the cash and companies only care if players in a huge amount run away from their games which hasn't happened here so far..
Just started playing PotBS and the game is a good one, ofcourse not it was not as expected it's still fun.
Comments
Although I read thru this forum and many others and shake my head in disbelief, and I realize yet one more prime opportunity that SOE has truly screwed up.
One company on top of a gold mind of MMO's and time after time they just can't get it right.
The problem is that filling this forum with this won't get you anywhere really. You just make those who like certain games annoyed and it won't really help your cause at all.And it is really a waste of space since people by now should be very aware that most game companies does NOT listen to the players in most of the cases.
I've played tons of mmorpg's and sent suggestions to the game companies to make changes which ofcourse were met with a thanks for your mail but we will not do anything.
The only thing people really can do as regardning games to show that it's doesn't have their support is to forget about the game and find something else to play.
There should really be a site callled "whiners heaven" or "games I hate" or something like that so people could vent their frustration about game companies and their lack of listening to players etc...
Then you could rally people for your cause which have an interest in spending energy doing a crusade against some game company.
As for mmorpg's forum flaming and complaints for games belongs in the personal review and not tons of topics which is made by a unhappy player to gather support for his cause.
In most of the time it has the opposite effect you will just make people more interested in what this game is more about.
Example.. I didn't play SWG from the start and SWG vets complained about the game being ruined, then I felt I had to try the game and found it very interesting and I like it.
Ofcourse I can't compare my experience with how the game originally was but then again it's not my point.
People get curious about the game and instead of making people desert the game you actually contribute to give the game a boost in players. All PR is good PR.
I really understand the frustration but trying to make a game company change their mind you either need to sit in the board or sit on a big share stake in the company to have any influence at all.
I thought my post said what I needed to say... did you read it?
And why the smilie?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Except, to be fair Cyrus, the OP didn't really list any of the real, rational mistakes by SOE. He basically made up a whole bunch, or, more precisely, rehashed some of the complaints about SOE from previous games. Its poor form to try to make a point about actual wrongs by listing made up ones.
I mean, really, the OP is just ridiculous: He says he thinks SOE pushed them to release SOON so they wouldn't compete with "next gen" mmos!!!!! PotBS delayed TWICE with SOE on board...and, thanks to five years of dev time, was no where neat "next gen" anyway.
He says they pushed to release within the timeframe of the movie!!!! But the game released in the following YEAR!
He says SOE probably used Vanguard as a selling point!!!! But the Vanguard disaster was public knowledge WHILE negotiations were going on.
He says the offered to make FLS rich!!!! But FLS devs said they were financially solvent without the deal, over and over again.
Look, you know I've been right there with you criticizing this deal...and all the ACTUAL mistakes that SOE made with FLS. And, if you look back in this thread, I list the "real" issues SOE brought, much like you did. But, I also point out that posts like the OP's are HARMFUL because, basically, they get people to believe, and argue over, FALSE statements, while the real problems are ignored.
IMO, the respondants are justified to attack the OP's premise...because, as he lists it, it's false. Your points, and mine, about the marketing and distribution, aren't. But the thread isn't focusing on that. Perhaps if it was brought up again....without the ridiculous OP.
Aye I read your post..
as for the smile no idea why it ended up there at the top it was to be located at the bottom.
You're defending people's right to "comment" SOE's poor performance.. so if that's a cause I don't know why you bothered to post in the1st place.
Making a statement like yours and imagine you will be a neutral one makes me wonder why you bothered.
People should be allowed to have an opinion as for games and what they think about it, but seriously this type of topics has been haunting these forums like forever and some of the posting people seems not to be able to stop complain abot the games. Some has like hundreds of flaming posts which starts to be more annoying than the SOE's or other game companies poor performance.
So people like me is reaaaaaaaaallly tired of logging on mmorpg.com's site and see all this flaming... this is my complaint and it's more relevant because the flaming topic stack makes mmorpg.com's site become more unserious imo.
People should focus their energy on the games to come than the games which is in their past... it will NOT change because I really doubt game companies send people in here to read the flames anyway.
Hi Bountytaker,
Yeah the OP was pretty lame. I was more responding to the "You are simply bagging SOE because you never got over SWG!" type flame we get here.
Which brings me to:
You contributed to it in this case. And you clearly didn't even look at the link I posted because if you had you would see that one of the Developers had contributed to that thread.
Rick Saada of FLS did visit these boards often and read the threads. I don't know if he does still visit?
How you choose to invest your energy is up to you and I thank you for your sage advice on how I should spend mine... but for myself I am not done with this game yet and will be playing on the Aussie server "soon".
(The Aussie server has nothing to do with SOE BTW).
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
FLS made a crappy game not SOE, SOE just profits off crappy games, good for them. If anything you people playing POTBS should be thankful. SOE is keeping your crappy games alive. The rest of us dont care and move on.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
You contributed to it in this case. And you clearly didn't even look at the link I posted because if you had you would see that one of the Developers had contributed to that thread.
Rick Saada of FLS did visit these boards often and read the threads. I don't know if he does still visit?
How you choose to invest your energy is up to you and I thank you for your sage advice on how I should spend mine... but for myself I am not done with this game yet and will be playing on the Aussie server "soon".
(The Aussie server has nothing to do with SOE BTW).
I didn't bother to go check out your link it serves no purpose in doing so. My only consern is that this issue about games being bad etc.. continues to come up over and over again and over again..
No matter how it is it will never end I guess. At least it's worth a try to get some people to start to think.
I guess it's a lost attempt. People never change it would seem.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
As for mocking my posting is quite funny. *shurgs*
As for SOE and their loyal complainers I guess these guys still play and hope SOE will change.
I've played several games as stated in earlier the games never change for the better. We just have to adapt or leave simple as that. There is no one needing to have a superiour mindset to see it's not working.
SOE is still here and will be so for a few more years maybe many more.. even if SOE went bankrupt and all the games were closed down I guess people had to find something else to whine about.
There's plenty of other games which has it's loyal complain club I'm starting to think these are actually people that has invested so much time in the game they won't quit and they're still torturing themselves playing.. I hope not for your own sake.
Best tip is to find a game you like and leave the ones you don't like behind they will never change to the way you like anyway.
if nothing else, it's an opportunity for people to vent about something bad.
whereas posts like the one i've quoted, serve no purpose other than possibly for the author to have a superiour-than-thou mindset? don't know.
i know that complaining about people complaining (who may/may not have legit reasons for complaining) serves NO purpose. it does however (in this case) reinforce that some people find it a lot easier to whine, than to see the reasons for the complaints in the first place.
THIS is why SOE continues down the path they do. kudos.
Says you. By your comments, you obviously *agree* with the chronic complainers at least in spirit, so to *you* this guys post "serves no purpose".
I agree with him though, so to me, his post does serve a purpose. It serves the purpose of showing me that I'm not alone in thinking that the endless litany of complaints by an ENDLESSLY vocal minority against EVERY game out there gets really tired.
You make the assumption that the poster has a "superiour (sic) than thou mindset" (feeling inadequate?) and that "complaining about complaining" is "whining" and a refusal to see "the reasons for the complaints"
Again, this is all because *you* have a bias. Many of us are more than intelligent enough to understand the "reasons" behind the complaints the first 235,000 times they're posted. Sometimes *GASP* many of us might agree, but you know what, sometimes we ACTUALLY disagree! Thats right! The whole world doesnt necessarily see things the way you and other crusaders feel we "obviously" should.
You choose to come to a public forum and make a full-time job out of bitching then prepared to be bitched AT. As for whose complaining is more or less valid and whose has nobler or more nefarious intent, thats all really academic isnt it? Each side will think the other is wasting space.
I'll tell you this though... Even in the cases where I AGREE with the issue, I cant stand the way a large number of immature posters go about addressing it. With the histrionics and the ad hominem attacks against faceless corporations or individual devs, and the crazed conspiracy theory hyperbole, and the ENDLESS spamming.
I think folks calling the borderline insane on the futility of their crusade and the obnoxious nature of their approach is more than justified in a PUBLIC forum.
There is nothing wrong with a reasoned dialogue about the shortcomings of a game or a company. Especially one which might lead to some constructive and valid criticism. Posting endless litanies of outrage like a 2 year old and then going nuts about "the first ammendment" and lashing out wildly when someone questions you on it is bound to get you bitched at.
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/170625
http://www.soepress.com/release.asp?i=182
"Under the new structure, SOE will continue to develop its games for the PC and the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3®) computer entertainment system, and SOE President John Smedley will report to {Kazuo} Hirai."
Maybe it's just me - but I doubt Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) will just sit back if SOE screws up?
This was a multi-millon dollar deal and really SOE effed it. SOE may have been able to afford that - but for FLS it really was a one time deal. I doubt they will be passing on glowing reviews to other would be SOE partners? Developers talk to Developers. Based on what has happened I would think Platform Publishing (SOE) will be hard pressed to sign up another developer the likes of FLS?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/170625
http://www.soepress.com/release.asp?i=182
"Under the new structure, SOE will continue to develop its games for the PC and the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3®) computer entertainment system, and SOE President John Smedley will report to {Kazuo} Hirai."
Maybe it's just me - but I doubt Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) will just sit back if SOE screws up?
This was a multi-millon dollar deal and really SOE effed it. SOE may have been able to afford that - but for FLS it really was a one time deal. I doubt they will be passing on glowing reviews to other would be SOE partners? Developers talk to Developers. Based on what has happened I would think Platform Publishing (SOE) will be hard pressed to sign up another developer the likes of FLS?
I don't know...when we tried generating discussion about the distribution issues back in Dec and Jan, FLS folks came flying in and blamed the stores/store personel, and defended SOE's distribution piece. Even when posters pointed out that boxes got shipped without the pre-order codes inside, and European distribution was delayed, they still defended SOE...even while SOE themselves would say little on the matter.
Granted, we haven't heard much from them lately...but there haven't really been any distribution issues lately, so who knows.
I just don't think FLS' opinion of SOE is so "cut and dry"....even if some PotBS customers opinions on the distribution are.
It's not so much about complaining as it is a feeling of compassion for a game that used to be fun. It isn't easy to just ignore an MMO, because it is alive, it changes and people can envision a future where the game could be fun, if only x and x are implemented (or not implemented).
To voice your opinion about something that doesn't seem right or fair isn't always complaining, its a demand for fairness. If nobody said anything, horrible games would be on the shelves month after month.
Ok so don't buy them? Sure, but what is to stop them from producing a terrible game the next year? These people who passionately 'complain' about games are the people who ensure quality of these games.
Also, who is to say people on this forum aren't actively subscribed to $OmE MMO account. Those who would dare to demand that, on top of not buying your pos game, unless changes are made, I will never do business with you again.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
POTBC is a perfecrt game in my mind, because the blue sea will always attract your attention.
/nod
People say SOE is the place where games go to die. SOE seems to have a habit of picking up badly done games and letting it rust without giving any effort.
Anyone making excuses for SOE is truely uninformed.
You claim it wasn't SOE's fault with SWG?
SOE lied many times to their players and released such a pathetic game change I really can't believe it wasn't a gag.
How can you blame LA for that? LA wanted a game change. LA wanted improvements. SOE dropped the ball BIG TIME. LA wanted results and SOE couldn't produce. The game was stagnent because none of the bugs were getting fixed. It was mismanaged from the start.
This is why for the next MMO LA went to Bioware. A company that has come through for them.
Don't make excuses for SOE. They have shown they will constantly lie to their customers. They over and over again release games not ready expecting people to pay for beta.
SOE is pathetic. Very bad buisness to be involved with as a player and developer.
SHOHADAKU
Its a shame that its only really the SWG Vets spreading their hatred o SOE to other games, and as far as this forum go's Mmorpg.com should do something about them, they gave em their SWG Vets refuge but obviously they are not happy with that either .
Having heard a lot of threads about the whole soe swg thing. I have to say that recently when i speak to many gamers online the general concensus was that the game was riddled with bugs before any changes came about and that many were already threatening to leave the game as a result, nge just seems to have been the last straw that's all.
So would the game have died in anycase? nge or not ? i'm not being ignorant btw just asking the question
its just that the game seems to be talked about by soe haters as though it were some golden coated be all and end all game. but when i talk to people who actualy meet up online in various other games they all tell me they were already going to leave as the game was boring and full of bug. so its kinda "who do i listen to"?
maybe you should just play all the games SOE has to offer and then form your own opinion?
i didn't even take smed's word about station pass going to be home to a lot of so/so mmo's and that was soe's goal.
nothing on the station pass has ever been very fun for me. a bunch of 'not really fun' games for one price is still not fun for me.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Here is about all I'll say, and this comes from one of the more legendary SOE haters of old.....
Yet its old. Not current. I don't blame SOE for any problems with POTBS. (Well except for when they caused the game to lose an extra 4 hours of downtime when they were updating the launcher, then I just laughed lol.) A lot of people are right, SOE is being charged with things they are absolutely innocent of.
Do I feel sorry for them? Not at all. They EARNED the reputation they have. A lot of the issues with SWG were more about how they went about doing it. It wasn't the decision of LA to have people get ganked in game by NPC's for protesting the combat upgrade in game. Lucasarts didn't order a full-fledged propoganda offensive that silenced any and all negative reviews, all the while "welcoming constructive feedback."
Based on their bad past decisions, SOE has given itself a real black eye in the gaming world. Anything they touch is going to cause controversey. The heads at FLS recognized that, by conceding that a lot of people who were interested in the game would now no longer be.
So while SOE is innocent of any of the problems associated with POTBS, one can't feel sympathy for a company that earned its horrible reputation, and is now forced to live with it.
In the case of POTBS, no SOE didn't make the game and isn't responsible for how the gameplay turns out.
However, SOE made a bad situation worse with all their marketing and distribution experience. They fouled up the patcher, the fouled up distribution for launch day in many ways, they trashed the preorder and early boarding, billing, etc. There was a giant laundry list on flying labs website about SOE issues.
To me it seemed SOE did almost everything they could do wrong that would start this game off in the worst possible way.
The EQ and EQ2 expansions launched around the same time and didn't seem to suffer these same problems or maybe the people it affected are just that subdued it was business as usual.
I totally understand the need to vent, rant and let out the feelings that a lot of us may share in this thread. The only problem is, we're still seen as the minority to companies the likes of SOE. All they see is $'s and as long as that's still flowing we're nothing more than a splinter in their finger.
What was I've been trying to point out for people it's all about the cash and companies only care if players in a huge amount run away from their games which hasn't happened here so far..
Just started playing PotBS and the game is a good one, ofcourse not it was not as expected it's still fun.