firefly notes," I cant believe that people want to water games just for the sake of avoiding danger in a game that about interaction with the community" Response: Believe it! Again, I don't think that most players are totally against PVP. Heck I participated in it at WOW, however, that was a controlled environment with surprisingly very little ganking.. In EVE and possibly here, ganking is the norm because most PVP players are COWARDS/
Yes, let me call them what they are. I was a warlock in WOW ,which is a strong PVP class. RARELY has anyone taken up my challenge . However, they they can get three on me or attack me when engaged in RVR, they would gladly do that. Another problem with PVP servers is balance. There are always complaints about classes being overpowered,which results in nerfing,which I HATE.. If PVP doesn't occur much, there need not be that much worry about overbalanced classes.
firstly --- balance is a myth. unless everyone is the same caliber of player and on the same speed connection; then, there can be no actual balance, only a perceived balance.
i'm not sure what you're referring to about wow. dueling has to be the lamest thing in the pvp world, which makes the arena just a lame-fest. so aside from duels, were you sad that you were getting jumped in BGs? back in the day when the wife had me playing wow, i relished playing a lock and watching folks freak out in bgs. i took pride in how many folks i could take on at one time. it was fun, it was challenging.
you have to ask yourself -- if there's three attacking you; then doesn't that mean that no one is attacking a couple of people on your team? sometimes, it's about the team. also, you have to expect to be ganged up on if you're playing a (perceived) powerful character class.
more and more of we pvpers are speaking with our wallets. with the plethora of games on the market (of which, if you include mmos world-wide, wow is a MINOR player compared to some of the uber games of the east), we don't have to put up with the lame pvp which now inundates games from UO, to WoW, to whatever other games feel that care-bear-24/7 is the way to go.
what i don't understand is how you can compare a game with spaceships (please, correct me if i'm wrong and you actually get out of the space ship to do your fighting) to the after-the-fact pvp in a fantasy setting like wow?
oh well, lots of people in the west joined the MMO-craze with the addition of wow to the genre, and i guess some won't ever get it.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I am a fan of consensual pvp flags for JGE, end of. I have no idea if that is the way it will go but I cant help but think for the longevity of the game it will benefit from some form of governing rules for what is or isnt possible for one player to do to another, providing also that there are lots of opt outs for those who want them.
Its true that you cant please all of the people all of the time, but its still worth trying.
This is such a great topic, as there is no right answer to this. I honestly believe there are 2 discreet crowds Non-consensual PVP and consensual PVP, they are each 50% of the market, and they will NEVER agree which is better. We are working on some ideas to try and let the two play types co-exist but its likely the only solution is 2 different server rule sets. We would be stupid to ignore either crowd, even the dev team itself is split on the issue.
Getting GANKED is never fun. I dont think that even the most hardcore PVP fan likes getting ganked.
Having a non consensual PVP is always a flood gate towards ganking and harassing behavior, we all know such ruleset brings.
But on the other hand , consensual PVP defeats the purpose of ELITE/FREELANCER space game and transforms it from sandbox experience into linear WOW like singleplayer multiplay game.
But having servers with PVP and PVE ruleset is a bad idea aswell , because it polarises and separates the communities.
PVP servers end up drawing the l337 crowd , PVE servers end up drawing MMO Mom's
And a normal gamers get caught in the middle of two extremes
If JE follows any kind of WoW model for PvP, I won't play this game. I'm actually not much of a PvPer but I love the PvP aspects of Eve Online. I feel very rewarded in Eve Online because no game developer is holding my hand. I can literally be attacked any time and any place. That kind of rush is unparalleled in any other MMO I've ever played. It simply works for the kind of setting Eve Online takes place in.
It seems to me that since JE is a twitch game, it would also be very PvP oriented. Otherwise, why not just make a modern version of Freelancer, call it something else, and release it as a single player game? The MMO market is DYING for a "no holds barred" twitch game. Eve Online is a testament to this overwhelming desire. I would venture to say that probably 40% of the people who play Eve do so even though they hate not being able to control their own ship. They are patiently waiting for another developer to give them that "go anywhere" feeling in a space game combined with the rich PvP and player run universe that is Eve Online. This might not be the "biggest" market to tap into (those Eve players), but it is a start and a good foundation for JE to take off and become very successful.
Anyway, here's hoping that JE doesn't water down the PvP experience. I'm all for giving carebears an area where they can thrive unmolested. Again, Eve Online does this very well with three separate areas: high sec, low sec, 0.0 space. In high sec, a player is largely unmolested. In low sec, a player can be killed before the authorities arrive and thus this is a very popular area for pirates and gankers. 0.0 space is "no holds barred." You are on your own with no protection. I don't see why JE doesn't emulate this approach albeit with their own special modifications.
Please don't consider a WoW system. PvP combat in space should not be confined to arenas or special areas. It should be an integral part of the game and a major part of ones life (even if that only means actively avoiding it) and a reality of living day-to-day out in the wild frontier of space. Honestly, if JE doesn't get this right (along with crafting/economy), I'm sticking with Eve until a developer can successfully duplicate that model with twitch movement/combat. Yeah, I know, I'm Eve biased.
safe zone , policed zone (but still dangerous) , and no holds bar zone
And for difference to EVE , death in PVP doesnt have to be that serious and costly.
The problem JGE would face if it would go the way of PVE server - is that the whole trading and mining metagame would be rendered useless. Since it would pose no treat to mine and trade in dangerous sectors - rendering this gameplay to boring grind
Honestly I don't see what the big issue is all about.
All sources agree that PvErs are most numerous players, followed by people who like to mix PvP and PvE and ardent PvPers being the smallest group.
Designing a niche game to placate one group is a bad idea from business perspective as it puts all of the eggs in the same basket. It is more reasonable to widen the appeal to ensure the widest possible player base, that is simple consumerism.
Personally I think having separate PvE and PvP servers is the best idea. Mixing PvP and PvE is usually a recipe for a disaster as it causes players to become unhappy by forcing PvPers to PvE and PvErs to PvP.
We will see how it goes, from what I read the developers seem to have adopted a pragamtic busienss approach over the "vision" and I find that refreshing. If anything the sinking wrecks of Vanguard and Pirates of the Burning Sea thought me to shudder at the word "vision".
PS
As much as people like to slam WoW PvP (and I will be the first to admit it is flawed etc.) its PvP servers are alive and well with FFA concept. Probably more people does PvP in WoW then all other games combined, including self proclaimed PvP heavens. Obviously Blizzard did something right.
FFA PvP games have and DO work ... if done properly. People who go around saying "FFA PvP won't work, blah blah gank, blah blah stole all my stuff", should consider some of the following options. A. Don't play. This one is fairly self-explanatory. You may be a little disappointed that you'll miss out on a great game, but heck, spare a thought for some of us PvP players who get missed out by a large percentage of the MMO market.
This is what makes me sick of online gaming. First, there is a sci-fi total PvP ship base game out already, and the above plays it. There isn't a sci-fi total PvE ship based game. Siftified, maybe you should take your own advice, or go back to Eve.
This game sounds interesting to me as I do like space games, but with the problems with Eve (like that massive fallout last year with a Eve dev giving a team 20 very expensive blueprints, and other perks and their constant need to play within any team, ever bringing up the fear they'll do that crap again) and paying to be raped by exploiters I just won't play the game. Now if Jumpgate is similiar or better than Eve and has meaningful PvE, now that's something I'd be interested in subscribing too.
Problem with PvP is that most PvPers are loudmouthed 15 year-old no-life pimple butt kids. They believe being a PvPer makes their ePeen grow, and like a 15 year-old brat, they feel they need to streak their 1mm micro stick to the world. They spend their time remembering words like "n00b" and "l33t", but forget who is the real nub for making a jackass out of themselves standing around to show off their toothpick. I'm too old for such crap, and not wasting my time and money so some prick can feel 2ft tall -- since in RL they're probably the kid that girls beat up at school.
Now I hope this game will have PvE content. If PvPers want to fight, let it be for those who skill up a PvP only skill -- call it Arena skill or something. Anyone wanting to persue that path will meet like kind and will finally meet their own match (give them red names or something even), not showing their "l33t" skills killing unarmed civilians from behind -- zero honor and zero skills = cowardly fighting.
A game should be fun for the whole community, not just a small but very vocal population who thinks plucking wings off of flies is fun.
If a player chooses on an occasion to pvp they should be able to pvp against other players who have also chosen to pvp. If that same player chooses on another occasion not to pvp, to pve, then they should also be able to do so without having to look over their shoulder for an attack from past pvp adversaries.
The issue that many have with such an ethos is the belief that player actions should always have consequences. The player who pvp'd yesterday should be held accountable for his actions today, should deal with the consequences coming to him irrespective of his 'now' game play wishes. I feel that this thought process is a stumbling block for any game.
Consequences for player actions and activities do the game no favours when the judge/jury and referee deciding them is effectively from the "other team". Such a situation would be testing even if everyone playing were good friends and not the strangers and rivals as found in MMO's.
All we really need in games are LOTS of logical mechanics and scenarios that constitute consensual pvp triggers. As many as we can imaginatively think of.
In JGC, flying through another races beacon 'tuning' it to your races colours, irrespective of your tag, is/was an absolutely brilliant pvp trigger mechanism. An exact example in fact. But, without the addtionaly robust mechanisms of non pvp protections, what it meant was that the person flying through it could say to someone about to engage them as a consequence and say "shoot at me and I will make you and your friends KOS and hunt you and them down forever."
The only reason such was said was because the beacon colourer could 'opt out' of the consequences of their actions by arbitrarily deciding the consequences of their potential adversaries, irrespective of any game mechanics. Now of course, such a threat may or may not work depending on who it was made to, but very shortly, people do stop bothering to care who's beacon gets flipped what colour and by who'm UNLESS they use another pre-set pvp trigger first (Military service in Jumpgate Classic) and that other good and adhoc pvp trigger is lost forever to uselessness.
Alternatively, people simply dont risk ever flipping other races beacons today, in case they are considered to be a flipper tomorrow (when they arent doing it) and are shot on site instincively by players who have no evidence of a 'crime' being made - so again, the beacon flip pvp trigger wilts because the game surrounding it lacks the potential to govern who can be shot at, by whom and when, outside of the trigger mechanisms operation.
Dear Developers: I am constantly amazed that MMO games get developed with a strong emphasis on PVP. Frankly, i HATE PVP. Not that I am aginst one on one, which is somewhat honorable,but usually PVP turns out to be a gank fest of 6 on one or it starts after a player is engaged in RVR,which is also unfair.. The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy? Have some servers with very limited PVP unless consensual and some with wide open PVP except for starting areas. This would appeal to everyone. Also, as with WOW, instead of forcing folks into PVP, you can have a few ( and I mean a very few) zones that are PVP oriented and give some good rewards. Thus, you would be using the carrot vs. the stick approach. You can even have special PVP events found in "arena" types of zones. If you are going to put PVP in all servers, then at least make it painless with cheap insurance or little penalty for ship destruction, If you want to maximize your player potential and therefore profitability, you will adopt my suggestions.
Well.....WoW forces players into PvE without purpose. And none want to be forced into something at all. But as it now, WoW is one of the MMOs that forces players to do everything exactly as the game want .
Jumpgates PvP will make every login uniqe. Not two players will have the same experience.
Those of you wishing for a PvE Internet spaceship game should simply wait until STO comes out. Being that STO is IP based, I'm sure it'll be carebearish enough for those who don't like to be involved with PvP.
Player choice is king. Any developer who goes against this rule is going to fail. However, I am STRONGLY against the "Arena-ization" of PvP in MMOs by players who are basically afraid of PvP or have highly exaggerated views of how bad PvP can be. Compartmentalizing PvP is not player choice. Neither is pigeonholing PVE into repeatable missions that bore the player to hell after doing them for one day.
I do not want to see a game that is already an established PvP twitch game be water downed for the sake of people who are afraid of PvP. I am an Eve player and I am a miner/mission runner who is not aligned with any corporation. Am I getting ganked on a daily basis? No. Are 15 year old losers smack talking me down when I am defeated in a fight? No. I mine in high sec space. Have I ever been suicide ganked? No. The point I'm trying to make is I think many people who are afraid of PvP are so through stories they have heard and not by any direct experience themselves. It is like being afraid of their own shadow so they cry to developers begging for the game to take place during the night only.
The industry only has ONE all out PvP game and it is called Eve Online. The game has been out since 2003 and is still growing in terms of player subscribers. Sure, it is a niche game , but to say a games success can only be measured by the number of subscribers is doing a disservice to the game and the players. Eve Online is complicated and if you aren't smart enough, or patient enough, you aren't going to like the game. Eve Online also suffers from the lack of a human avatar (which will be changed in the Ambulation update) and non-controllable spaceships. All of these factors probably play into why Eve Online isn't as successful (to some of you) as it could be. I highly doubt unbridled PvP is the reason why.
Eve Online is still growing and the reason why is because of player choice. Players who are sick of being hand held in games like WoW or sick of playing in unrealistic worlds where everything is compartmentalized are coming to Eve Online because they want to have a personal impact on the worlds that they play it. They simply aren't satisfied with killing computer controlled opponents. They want to be part of a living/breathing world and Eve is just about the only game that does this. JGE has the chance at this same holy grail of gaming but many of you just want to see it A. dumbed down or B. PvE'd to death which is basically turning a game into a eunuch.
There is a solution to this issue. While I applaude the one server model of Eve Online, maybe JGE should offer two servers one for FFA PvP and the other for people who just want to fly around and kill non-human opponents. But why even take this approach? Being a space game, to me, having more than one server kills immersion. Unless JGE is meant to be more of a game as opposed to a virtual world, I suppose two servers would be all right. However, in my case, no game is ever going to take me away from a fully fleshed out player controlled virtual world ala Eve Online.
In the end, I think JGE should simply adopt the three space security model. A high security model for the carebears, a low security model for those who like some danger, and a 0.0 security model where it is total PvP and offers no protection to the player. Let it be a one server model so that a real player driven economical, social, and political structure can develop. Otherwise, all this game will turn out to be is an arcade online shooter.
Honestly I don't see what the big issue is all about.
All sources agree that PvErs are most numerous players, followed by people who like to mix PvP and PvE and ardent PvPers being the smallest group.
Designing a niche game to placate one group is a bad idea from business perspective as it puts all of the eggs in the same basket. It is more reasonable to widen the appeal to ensure the widest possible player base, that is simple consumerism.
Personally I think having separate PvE and PvP servers is the best idea. Mixing PvP and PvE is usually a recipe for a disaster as it causes players to become unhappy by forcing PvPers to PvE and PvErs to PvP.
We will see how it goes, from what I read the developers seem to have adopted a pragamtic busienss approach over the "vision" and I find that refreshing. If anything the sinking wrecks of Vanguard and Pirates of the Burning Sea thought me to shudder at the word "vision".
PS As much as people like to slam WoW PvP (and I will be the first to admit it is flawed etc.) its PvP servers are alive and well with FFA concept. Probably more people does PvP in WoW then all other games combined, including self proclaimed PvP heavens. Obviously Blizzard did something right.
People play WoW because it is the most popular MMO out there. It is not that Blizzard did something right, it is more like "Well this is the most popular MMO and I play it because all of my friends do." Also, I don't understand why PvErs and PvPrs must be kept totally separate? Why can't an innovative developer simply create one unified world but keeps to two apart? While I am against this idea, I do believe it is a better solution than two separate servers.
Again, Eve Online's security space works very well here. Yes, there has been recent suicide ganking in high security causing Carebears to run in all directions. But, JGE could do things different and make their high security space completely and 100% safe for carebears as oppose to Eve which states one is only ever 100% safe only if they are docked at a space station.
Dear Developers: I am constantly amazed that MMO games get developed with a strong emphasis on PVP. Frankly, i HATE PVP. Not that I am aginst one on one, which is somewhat honorable,but usually PVP turns out to be a gank fest of 6 on one or it starts after a player is engaged in RVR,which is also unfair..
I would be very happy for you to point me in the direction of said PvP games. AoC and WAR are coming out soon but aside from that all we have had are DAoC and Eve. Lineage 2 might count if there wasn't such a PvE centric grind to get to the meaningful PvP...
People really need to read taxguy's first post before they comment. What he is implying is that JGE take the world of warcraft approach on server designs and make some pvp and pve focused.
Comments like "wow has gay pvp" shows how stupid some of these replies are.
Yet another thread aiming at making suggestions to ruin a theorically PvP-capable MMO.
And there is nothing you can do about it. It is a free world. You have your opinions. I have mine. We both vote with our dollars. Let's see who the developers listen to.
Comments
are you serious? WoW has the worst, most carebear PvP ever. it should be more like EvE.
LOL what?
JGE will be space twitch shooter with a joystick as viable control method and you compare it and want it to be similar to WoW??
Get a clue !
firstly --- balance is a myth. unless everyone is the same caliber of player and on the same speed connection; then, there can be no actual balance, only a perceived balance.
i'm not sure what you're referring to about wow. dueling has to be the lamest thing in the pvp world, which makes the arena just a lame-fest. so aside from duels, were you sad that you were getting jumped in BGs? back in the day when the wife had me playing wow, i relished playing a lock and watching folks freak out in bgs. i took pride in how many folks i could take on at one time. it was fun, it was challenging.
you have to ask yourself -- if there's three attacking you; then doesn't that mean that no one is attacking a couple of people on your team? sometimes, it's about the team. also, you have to expect to be ganged up on if you're playing a (perceived) powerful character class.
more and more of we pvpers are speaking with our wallets. with the plethora of games on the market (of which, if you include mmos world-wide, wow is a MINOR player compared to some of the uber games of the east), we don't have to put up with the lame pvp which now inundates games from UO, to WoW, to whatever other games feel that care-bear-24/7 is the way to go.
what i don't understand is how you can compare a game with spaceships (please, correct me if i'm wrong and you actually get out of the space ship to do your fighting) to the after-the-fact pvp in a fantasy setting like wow?
oh well, lots of people in the west joined the MMO-craze with the addition of wow to the genre, and i guess some won't ever get it.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I am a fan of consensual pvp flags for JGE, end of. I have no idea if that is the way it will go but I cant help but think for the longevity of the game it will benefit from some form of governing rules for what is or isnt possible for one player to do to another, providing also that there are lots of opt outs for those who want them.
Its true that you cant please all of the people all of the time, but its still worth trying.
This is such a great topic, as there is no right answer to this. I honestly believe there are 2 discreet crowds Non-consensual PVP and consensual PVP, they are each 50% of the market, and they will NEVER agree which is better. We are working on some ideas to try and let the two play types co-exist but its likely the only solution is 2 different server rule sets. We would be stupid to ignore either crowd, even the dev team itself is split on the issue.
Getting GANKED is never fun. I dont think that even the most hardcore PVP fan likes getting ganked.
Having a non consensual PVP is always a flood gate towards ganking and harassing behavior, we all know such ruleset brings.
But on the other hand , consensual PVP defeats the purpose of ELITE/FREELANCER space game and transforms it from sandbox experience into linear WOW like singleplayer multiplay game.
But having servers with PVP and PVE ruleset is a bad idea aswell , because it polarises and separates the communities.
PVP servers end up drawing the l337 crowd , PVE servers end up drawing MMO Mom's
And a normal gamers get caught in the middle of two extremes
If JE follows any kind of WoW model for PvP, I won't play this game. I'm actually not much of a PvPer but I love the PvP aspects of Eve Online. I feel very rewarded in Eve Online because no game developer is holding my hand. I can literally be attacked any time and any place. That kind of rush is unparalleled in any other MMO I've ever played. It simply works for the kind of setting Eve Online takes place in.
It seems to me that since JE is a twitch game, it would also be very PvP oriented. Otherwise, why not just make a modern version of Freelancer, call it something else, and release it as a single player game? The MMO market is DYING for a "no holds barred" twitch game. Eve Online is a testament to this overwhelming desire. I would venture to say that probably 40% of the people who play Eve do so even though they hate not being able to control their own ship. They are patiently waiting for another developer to give them that "go anywhere" feeling in a space game combined with the rich PvP and player run universe that is Eve Online. This might not be the "biggest" market to tap into (those Eve players), but it is a start and a good foundation for JE to take off and become very successful.
Anyway, here's hoping that JE doesn't water down the PvP experience. I'm all for giving carebears an area where they can thrive unmolested. Again, Eve Online does this very well with three separate areas: high sec, low sec, 0.0 space. In high sec, a player is largely unmolested. In low sec, a player can be killed before the authorities arrive and thus this is a very popular area for pirates and gankers. 0.0 space is "no holds barred." You are on your own with no protection. I don't see why JE doesn't emulate this approach albeit with their own special modifications.
Please don't consider a WoW system. PvP combat in space should not be confined to arenas or special areas. It should be an integral part of the game and a major part of ones life (even if that only means actively avoiding it) and a reality of living day-to-day out in the wild frontier of space. Honestly, if JE doesn't get this right (along with crafting/economy), I'm sticking with Eve until a developer can successfully duplicate that model with twitch movement/combat. Yeah, I know, I'm Eve biased.
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
I am myself for 3 zone type system
safe zone , policed zone (but still dangerous) , and no holds bar zone
And for difference to EVE , death in PVP doesnt have to be that serious and costly.
The problem JGE would face if it would go the way of PVE server - is that the whole trading and mining metagame would be rendered useless. Since it would pose no treat to mine and trade in dangerous sectors - rendering this gameplay to boring grind
I see many of you aren't very educated on the initial PvP of WoW, or the potential it had.
I already posted on this, you can read it a page back. Its quite detailed. I'll sum it quickly:
WoW - BG @ Arena +more and larger zones dedicated to meaningful PvP combat = Gud
Honestly I don't see what the big issue is all about.
All sources agree that PvErs are most numerous players, followed by people who like to mix PvP and PvE and ardent PvPers being the smallest group.
Designing a niche game to placate one group is a bad idea from business perspective as it puts all of the eggs in the same basket. It is more reasonable to widen the appeal to ensure the widest possible player base, that is simple consumerism.
Personally I think having separate PvE and PvP servers is the best idea. Mixing PvP and PvE is usually a recipe for a disaster as it causes players to become unhappy by forcing PvPers to PvE and PvErs to PvP.
We will see how it goes, from what I read the developers seem to have adopted a pragamtic busienss approach over the "vision" and I find that refreshing. If anything the sinking wrecks of Vanguard and Pirates of the Burning Sea thought me to shudder at the word "vision".
PS
As much as people like to slam WoW PvP (and I will be the first to admit it is flawed etc.) its PvP servers are alive and well with FFA concept. Probably more people does PvP in WoW then all other games combined, including self proclaimed PvP heavens. Obviously Blizzard did something right.
Please please please, nobody listen the the OP. He's clearly off his face on LSD. Poor guy...
This is what makes me sick of online gaming. First, there is a sci-fi total PvP ship base game out already, and the above plays it. There isn't a sci-fi total PvE ship based game. Siftified, maybe you should take your own advice, or go back to Eve.
This game sounds interesting to me as I do like space games, but with the problems with Eve (like that massive fallout last year with a Eve dev giving a team 20 very expensive blueprints, and other perks and their constant need to play within any team, ever bringing up the fear they'll do that crap again) and paying to be raped by exploiters I just won't play the game. Now if Jumpgate is similiar or better than Eve and has meaningful PvE, now that's something I'd be interested in subscribing too.
Problem with PvP is that most PvPers are loudmouthed 15 year-old no-life pimple butt kids. They believe being a PvPer makes their ePeen grow, and like a 15 year-old brat, they feel they need to streak their 1mm micro stick to the world. They spend their time remembering words like "n00b" and "l33t", but forget who is the real nub for making a jackass out of themselves standing around to show off their toothpick. I'm too old for such crap, and not wasting my time and money so some prick can feel 2ft tall -- since in RL they're probably the kid that girls beat up at school.
Now I hope this game will have PvE content. If PvPers want to fight, let it be for those who skill up a PvP only skill -- call it Arena skill or something. Anyone wanting to persue that path will meet like kind and will finally meet their own match (give them red names or something even), not showing their "l33t" skills killing unarmed civilians from behind -- zero honor and zero skills = cowardly fighting.
A game should be fun for the whole community, not just a small but very vocal population who thinks plucking wings off of flies is fun.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
I'll make my opinion pretty simple, make a PVE server or no subscription money for NetDevil
My own ethos is "Player choice is king."
If a player chooses on an occasion to pvp they should be able to pvp against other players who have also chosen to pvp. If that same player chooses on another occasion not to pvp, to pve, then they should also be able to do so without having to look over their shoulder for an attack from past pvp adversaries.
The issue that many have with such an ethos is the belief that player actions should always have consequences. The player who pvp'd yesterday should be held accountable for his actions today, should deal with the consequences coming to him irrespective of his 'now' game play wishes. I feel that this thought process is a stumbling block for any game.
Consequences for player actions and activities do the game no favours when the judge/jury and referee deciding them is effectively from the "other team". Such a situation would be testing even if everyone playing were good friends and not the strangers and rivals as found in MMO's.
All we really need in games are LOTS of logical mechanics and scenarios that constitute consensual pvp triggers. As many as we can imaginatively think of.
In JGC, flying through another races beacon 'tuning' it to your races colours, irrespective of your tag, is/was an absolutely brilliant pvp trigger mechanism. An exact example in fact. But, without the addtionaly robust mechanisms of non pvp protections, what it meant was that the person flying through it could say to someone about to engage them as a consequence and say "shoot at me and I will make you and your friends KOS and hunt you and them down forever."
The only reason such was said was because the beacon colourer could 'opt out' of the consequences of their actions by arbitrarily deciding the consequences of their potential adversaries, irrespective of any game mechanics. Now of course, such a threat may or may not work depending on who it was made to, but very shortly, people do stop bothering to care who's beacon gets flipped what colour and by who'm UNLESS they use another pre-set pvp trigger first (Military service in Jumpgate Classic) and that other good and adhoc pvp trigger is lost forever to uselessness.
Alternatively, people simply dont risk ever flipping other races beacons today, in case they are considered to be a flipper tomorrow (when they arent doing it) and are shot on site instincively by players who have no evidence of a 'crime' being made - so again, the beacon flip pvp trigger wilts because the game surrounding it lacks the potential to govern who can be shot at, by whom and when, outside of the trigger mechanisms operation.
WoW approach to PvP is carebear zergfest since there is no fear of dying because there is no significant death penalty or player item looting.
Well.....WoW forces players into PvE without purpose. And none want to be forced into something at all. But as it now, WoW is one of the MMOs that forces players to do everything exactly as the game want .
Jumpgates PvP will make every login uniqe. Not two players will have the same experience.
Why do you want to take that away?
Those of you wishing for a PvE Internet spaceship game should simply wait until STO comes out. Being that STO is IP based, I'm sure it'll be carebearish enough for those who don't like to be involved with PvP.
Player choice is king. Any developer who goes against this rule is going to fail. However, I am STRONGLY against the "Arena-ization" of PvP in MMOs by players who are basically afraid of PvP or have highly exaggerated views of how bad PvP can be. Compartmentalizing PvP is not player choice. Neither is pigeonholing PVE into repeatable missions that bore the player to hell after doing them for one day.
I do not want to see a game that is already an established PvP twitch game be water downed for the sake of people who are afraid of PvP. I am an Eve player and I am a miner/mission runner who is not aligned with any corporation. Am I getting ganked on a daily basis? No. Are 15 year old losers smack talking me down when I am defeated in a fight? No. I mine in high sec space. Have I ever been suicide ganked? No. The point I'm trying to make is I think many people who are afraid of PvP are so through stories they have heard and not by any direct experience themselves. It is like being afraid of their own shadow so they cry to developers begging for the game to take place during the night only.
The industry only has ONE all out PvP game and it is called Eve Online. The game has been out since 2003 and is still growing in terms of player subscribers. Sure, it is a niche game , but to say a games success can only be measured by the number of subscribers is doing a disservice to the game and the players. Eve Online is complicated and if you aren't smart enough, or patient enough, you aren't going to like the game. Eve Online also suffers from the lack of a human avatar (which will be changed in the Ambulation update) and non-controllable spaceships. All of these factors probably play into why Eve Online isn't as successful (to some of you) as it could be. I highly doubt unbridled PvP is the reason why.
Eve Online is still growing and the reason why is because of player choice. Players who are sick of being hand held in games like WoW or sick of playing in unrealistic worlds where everything is compartmentalized are coming to Eve Online because they want to have a personal impact on the worlds that they play it. They simply aren't satisfied with killing computer controlled opponents. They want to be part of a living/breathing world and Eve is just about the only game that does this. JGE has the chance at this same holy grail of gaming but many of you just want to see it A. dumbed down or B. PvE'd to death which is basically turning a game into a eunuch.
There is a solution to this issue. While I applaude the one server model of Eve Online, maybe JGE should offer two servers one for FFA PvP and the other for people who just want to fly around and kill non-human opponents. But why even take this approach? Being a space game, to me, having more than one server kills immersion. Unless JGE is meant to be more of a game as opposed to a virtual world, I suppose two servers would be all right. However, in my case, no game is ever going to take me away from a fully fleshed out player controlled virtual world ala Eve Online.
In the end, I think JGE should simply adopt the three space security model. A high security model for the carebears, a low security model for those who like some danger, and a 0.0 security model where it is total PvP and offers no protection to the player. Let it be a one server model so that a real player driven economical, social, and political structure can develop. Otherwise, all this game will turn out to be is an arcade online shooter.
B O R I N G
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
I'll make my opinion pretty simple: People like you are destroying the MMO industry. Go back to your safe, single player world.
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
Yet another thread aiming at making suggestions to ruin a theorically PvP-capable MMO.
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Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
People play WoW because it is the most popular MMO out there. It is not that Blizzard did something right, it is more like "Well this is the most popular MMO and I play it because all of my friends do." Also, I don't understand why PvErs and PvPrs must be kept totally separate? Why can't an innovative developer simply create one unified world but keeps to two apart? While I am against this idea, I do believe it is a better solution than two separate servers.
Again, Eve Online's security space works very well here. Yes, there has been recent suicide ganking in high security causing Carebears to run in all directions. But, JGE could do things different and make their high security space completely and 100% safe for carebears as oppose to Eve which states one is only ever 100% safe only if they are docked at a space station.
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
I would be very happy for you to point me in the direction of said PvP games. AoC and WAR are coming out soon but aside from that all we have had are DAoC and Eve. Lineage 2 might count if there wasn't such a PvE centric grind to get to the meaningful PvP...
And why is that a problem? It is obviously from the developers interview that they are going to balance PvE vs PvP anyway.
WoW is a very GAY game! JG has a way better PvP then WoW or any other MMORPG!
please never attempt to put WoW and JG / JG:E together
People really need to read taxguy's first post before they comment. What he is implying is that JGE take the world of warcraft approach on server designs and make some pvp and pve focused.
Comments like "wow has gay pvp" shows how stupid some of these replies are.
And there is nothing you can do about it. It is a free world. You have your opinions. I have mine. We both vote with our dollars. Let's see who the developers listen to.