Being able to trip bosses was NOT unbalancing in the slightest bit.
Sure, it was possible to trip the Titan, but it was still a pain in the neck to pull it off. It was always safer to knock him down with a pillar than by sending in a tactical fighter to trip him. At best, you had like a 50/50 chance of actually tripping the Titan (50/50 being split between 1-you trip him or 2-he kills you). It seriously wasn't unbalancing AT ALL.
A marilith can't be tripped anyways since it DOESN'T HAVE LEGS.
The Dragon? Good luck, with a +4 bonus for each extra leg over two, some crazy high bonus for being several size categories larger than you, and then a really high STR score; the Dragon is for all intents untrippable, with or without immunities.
The only purple-named that one would even bother trying to trip was the Titan and the Stormreaver. That's it. Two guys.
Where the trip nerf really hurt with the red named bosses that are EVERYWHERE in the game.
So here is the big problem for tactical fighter...all of the tough bad guys have been given a blanket immunity to the tactical fighter's abilities. So a tactical figher only works as long as your fighting easy stuff.
So who in their right mind would want to build a tactical fighter now? Why would a someone want to build a character that can really only be used to a noticeable effect on the "easy" fights?
No thanks, I currently enjoy DDO so no plans to quit at the moment. As for the nerfs well. I kinda agree with them. I like a little bit of strategy when encountering a boss mob. If a tank just goes up and trips the mob and we all unleash on him and it dies quickly it's kinda bleh. Where is the fun in that? Loot isn't everything, I kinda want the loot to be worth the risk/encounter and a little bit of strategy in how we kill the main boss mob.
Very sensible response that many people need to keep in mind when they cry over nerfs. This doesn't just apply to DDO but all mmorpgs.
While I do agree that blanket immunities generally suck and seem to be an easy way out, I can also look at the other side and realise something had to be done. Let's face it the raids were trivial and to some extent the still are (well most of them).
However, like any MMO & and P&P game with a semi-decent DM adjustments will be made to nullify abilities that trivialize the quest. That I don;t have a problem with. I mean really, the Titan was completely a joke when people could trip and cometfall him, not that it's much harder now but at least it does require some thought going into it.
And if I remember correctly Ridd used to be with Role Players, only ran with his Cleric once in PoP on my WF pally. However I could be mistaken since I have basically relocated to Arrgo & haven't played on Khyber in a few months..... I wondwer if I am still in my old guild Unearthed Arcana??
I think a lot of the PnP rules and items are a bit borked if you don't have a human DM trying to work around them.
Lets see the vorpal has a higher probability of removing its head in less than 14 hits, than not (less than a second), so should we allow that. Wounding of puncturing rapiers could probably kill it in less hits, should we allow them. Weakening of enfeebling, rendering it unable to hit, paralyse it, stone it, FOD it, it never ends.
So please justify why you tripping it should justify special treatment?
While I do agree that blanket immunities generally suck and seem to be an easy way out, I can also look at the other side and realise something had to be done. Let's face it the raids were trivial and to some extent the still are (well most of them). However, like any MMO & and P&P game with a semi-decent DM adjustments will be made to nullify abilities that trivialize the quest. That I don;t have a problem with. I mean really, the Titan was completely a joke when people could trip and cometfall him, not that it's much harder now but at least it does require some thought going into it.
And if I remember correctly Ridd used to be with Role Players, only ran with his Cleric once in PoP on my WF pally. However I could be mistaken since I have basically relocated to Arrgo & haven't played on Khyber in a few months..... I wondwer if I am still in my old guild Unearthed Arcana??
Raids were largely trivial even with red/purple name immunities. I don't think the addition of trip to the list of immuntiies really changed much.
The big problem I see with DDO raids is that they do not make much use of mob synergy. You are generally a team of 12 beating on a single mob.
The dragon should have a couple dragon dudes hanging out helping her out. The stormreaver should be able to command the air elementals to swarm the party, etc. Just doing this would make raids much more difficult and it would really be so difficult that you could remove all blanket immunities without making it too easy.
I originally started with the Band of the Five Fingers, which got merged into Deities & Demigods which split off into Lava Divers.
Raids were largely trivial even with red/purple name immunities. I don't think the addition of trip to the list of immuntiies really changed much.
Well, it changed a lot for my fighter who had spent FIVE feats to get improved trip and spring attack.
It would take 7 siberys dragonshards to fix my character at this point. It seems like collecting seven dragonshards would take longer than rerolling, too.
Man I've never seen anyone cry about a changed aspect of the game as much as you especially something so trivial. Tripping mobs like the Warforged Titan is not only completely ridiculous but it was an exploit and they had to do something about it. Building a toon only for trip and nothing else was idiotic anyway, stop crying and reroll your nubbed up useless fighter which apparently only had one previous use anyway.
Raids were largely trivial even with red/purple name immunities. I don't think the addition of trip to the list of immuntiies really changed much.
Well, it changed a lot for my fighter who had spent FIVE feats to get improved trip and spring attack.
It would take 7 siberys dragonshards to fix my character at this point. It seems like collecting seven dragonshards would take longer than rerolling, too.
Does it cost five feats? I haven't set one up recently so I don't remember. A switch probably can be done in fewer dragonshards since fighters have so many slots to work with.
The dragonshards are trivial to obtain. I think I've still got a dozen of them leftover from the freebies across all of my characters. The real cost is the 2 or 3 days you have to wait inbetween executing each dragonshard.
Man I've never seen anyone cry about a changed aspect of the game as much as you especially something so trivial. Tripping mobs like the Warforged Titan is not only completely ridiculous but it was an exploit and they had to do something about it. Building a toon only for trip and nothing else was idiotic anyway, stop crying and reroll your nubbed up useless fighter which apparently only had one previous use anyway.
I guess you completely missed the whole evasion in heavy armor debacle then because the outcry over trip is nothing in comparison.
Tripping mobs is no more of an exploit than magic missiling them, or hitting them with a sword.
You have trip specialists, you have armor specialists, you have dps specialists., fire specialists, cc specialists, charm specialists. Everyone builds their character the way they want. It's not constructive to call them idiotic and nubs for doing so.
Does it cost five feats? I haven't set one up recently so I don't remember. A switch probably can be done in fewer dragonshards since fighters have so many slots to work with.
The dragonshards are trivial to obtain. I think I've still got a dozen of them leftover from the freebies across all of my characters. The real cost is the 2 or 3 days you have to wait inbetween executing each dragonshard.
Well, I was including mobility and spring attack in my "fix", since spring attack does nothing now.
That's the other thing, if the DEVs don't want people to hit moving monsters, then why did they include the spring attack feat?
Man I've never seen anyone cry about a changed aspect of the game as much as you especially something so trivial. Tripping mobs like the Warforged Titan is not only completely ridiculous but it was an exploit and they had to do something about it. Building a toon only for trip and nothing else was idiotic anyway, stop crying and reroll your nubbed up useless fighter which apparently only had one previous use anyway.
Wait?
Exploiting?
So you are trying to tell me that having a fighter with improved trip, all the trip enhancements, and a vertigo +10 item was an exploit?
Really?
It just seems like such an expansive use of the word, "exploit".
Also, could you detail precisely what was unbalancing (pardon the pun) about tripping the Titan? To trip the titan with a melee character was a CHALLENGE. The titan does a lot of damage up close. The Titan also got a save against the trip attempt. He had a good save, too, since he has such a high STR score and tripping a monster requires succeeding on an opposed STR check.
Once again, I ask: What exactly was unbalancing about a melee character tripping the Titan at great risk to himself and his equipment?
The monsters shouldn't have ANY immunities other than what are found in the monster manual for D&D v3.5.
You should be able to use any special attack or spell against any monster provided the monster does not have a race specific resistance or immunity in it's Monster Manual profile.
Remove blanket immunities and let the DICE sort it all out.
Does it cost five feats? I haven't set one up recently so I don't remember. A switch probably can be done in fewer dragonshards since fighters have so many slots to work with.
The dragonshards are trivial to obtain. I think I've still got a dozen of them leftover from the freebies across all of my characters. The real cost is the 2 or 3 days you have to wait inbetween executing each dragonshard.
Well, I was including mobility and spring attack in my "fix", since spring attack does nothing now.
That's the other thing, if the DEVs don't want people to hit moving monsters, then why did they include the spring attack feat?
Well if you put out a full list of your current feats and what you want to switch to we can probably come up with a sequence to do it in fewer dragonshards. You're probably still talking about a 2 week operation though.
Spring attack just removes the -4 penalty on your to-hit when _you_ are moving. It has nothing to do with if the mob is moving or not.
I think madkk is overly sinsitive to the issue, but i agree that the way turbine chose to "balance" trip was horrible. I think it clearly stepped out of the boundries between cost/effectivness/continuity/player-respect. there are many small changes they could of made to increase the difficulty without resorting to such cheap unthought-out blanket changes.
While I do agree that blanket immunities generally suck and seem to be an easy way out, I can also look at the other side and realise something had to be done. Let's face it the raids were trivial and to some extent the still are (well most of them). However, like any MMO & and P&P game with a semi-decent DM adjustments will be made to nullify abilities that trivialize the quest. That I don;t have a problem with. I mean really, the Titan was completely a joke when people could trip and cometfall him, not that it's much harder now but at least it does require some thought going into it.
And if I remember correctly Ridd used to be with Role Players, only ran with his Cleric once in PoP on my WF pally. However I could be mistaken since I have basically relocated to Arrgo & haven't played on Khyber in a few months..... I wondwer if I am still in my old guild Unearthed Arcana??
Raids were largely trivial even with red/purple name immunities. I don't think the addition of trip to the list of immuntiies really changed much.
The big problem I see with DDO raids is that they do not make much use of mob synergy. You are generally a team of 12 beating on a single mob.
The dragon should have a couple dragon dudes hanging out helping her out. The stormreaver should be able to command the air elementals to swarm the party, etc. Just doing this would make raids much more difficult and it would really be so difficult that you could remove all blanket immunities without making it too easy.
I originally started with the Band of the Five Fingers, which got merged into Deities & Demigods which split off into Lava Divers.
I agree with your veiws on the raids.
Band of Five Fingers, I remember them had a RL customer at my job that was a Cleric in that guild, can't remember his name, Phillipino dude. Ahhh Dieties, sorry didn;t remember that but yea I do remember the guild and some kinda stink that caused the split. 1 Big reason I try not to get into Guild Politics and PUG a lot:)
And I believe Madd was refering to the fact that it is hard as hell to hit a mob from behind now, I wouldn't say the feats worthless (well Mobility is but then again it always was), I can still hit from behind just have to move to the side of the mob a little and run nearly parallel to it to score hits. I would say that Spring Attack was perhaps devalued a bit, but then again I never really took to that line.
As to trip, ect. a Tactical Fighter is still valuable against 99% of the encounters, anything without a red or purple name. I have a Warforged Intimitank that has Stunning Blow and Improved Trip, I still love them and still think they are valuable feats.
Welcome to the difference between an RPG and a videogame. If all you did in pen-and-paper was walk up and trip every monster around, your DM would most likely "nerf" you too... If not, he's an idiot. "Rules" are just "guidelines" if I recall the books saying, and can be altered or outright ignored to suit the situation at the DM's prerogative. Otherwise all I'm hearing is "waaaaah! I didn't get my way, I'm the only player who matters and they won't do what I want!"
Then can you please explain what purpose rules serve if they are to be disregarded at the slightest whim?
I dunno maybe you should try asking Dave Arnesson, one of the original creeators of D&D, that question. He thought that Gygax's penchant for trying to make comprehensive rules for all situations to be unrealistic. From his point of view you simply can't do it and it should be up to the DM/GM.
Perhpas Dave is right perhaps the Gygax comprehensive paradigm is a pipe dream. MMORPGs seem to be supporting Dave more than Gary. The problem is older than video games.
The monsters shouldn't have ANY immunities other than what are found in the monster manual for D&D v3.5. You should be able to use any special attack or spell against any monster provided the monster does not have a race specific resistance or immunity in it's Monster Manual profile. Remove blanket immunities and let the DICE sort it all out. It is a d20 system, after all.
Well, the 3.5 MM has a system for making "unique" versions of every monster, so giving them "extra" blanket immunities is not beyond the rules...then again, it should raise their CR by quite a bit.
The D&D v3.5 rules are quite clear on the subject: If a creature has legs that it uses to stand with AND the creature lacks the ability to fly or levitate, then it should under NO CIRCUMSTANCES be immune to trip (unless the creature is tethered to the cieling with a chain...but that is a different scenario). Think about it for a second. The Wizard King is a litch. He's a frail undead caster with little skinny chicken legs and really low DEX and STR scores. The ideal character for fighting this litch should be a tank with improved trip, since the Wizard King SHOULD be easily tripped. Turbine is a horrible DM. Turbine is the worst DM in history. Think about the kind of DM that Turbine has become. If you build your character TOO well, Turbine the bad DM will step in and arbitrarily make the bad guys immune to your characters attacks. Hrmph! If a DM at GenCon behaved this way, then that DM would be the laughinstock of the D&D community. Such a DM would be ridiculed and derided into silence by the rest of the D&D community that ACTUALLY RESPECTS THE GAME. This is just like the kid who brings the basketball to the courts, gets pwnd, and then leaves with his basketball because, "the other kids wouldn't let him win".
Turbine only follows the D&D rules when it suites them. If they see someone using their brian to figure something out well, they can't have that and they nerf your ability to do what ever it is that you are trying to do.
They made a RED dragon immune to cold damage for Christ sake lol.
They made a RED dragon immune to cold damage for Christ sake lol.
I haven't tried it but I'm pretty sure that is dispellable. She's not a stupid dragon, she has spells so she casts protection from cold on herself like any other caster would.
They made a RED dragon immune to cold damage for Christ sake lol.
I haven't tried it but I'm pretty sure that is dispellable. She's not a stupid dragon, she has spells so she casts protection from cold on herself like any other caster would.
Yes, I believe she casts Cold Resistance and Cold Protection on herself like, I dunno any intelligent creature with a weakness to cold and levels of an Arcane (or Divine) casting class might.
A lot of the complaints I see about nerfs, ect.. seem to me to come from individuals that have a hard time adapting to changing environments. Personally I like changes, they keep challenges fresh and keep the boredom from setting in IMHO.
Turbine hired the wrong people to design their D&D game, plain and simple. The game completely lacks the realism that has always been the goal of the D&D franchise in both computer and tabletop versions. Instead of making interesting, imaginative, realistic quests full of roleplaying and strategy, they have made a horrid beatdown-the-boss game of loot and hack-n-slash.
Don't worry, people will be quitting when the current generation MMORPGs start arriving that actually appeal to the RPG crowd.
I agree with the OP fully. Turbine hired the wrong people to design their D&D game, plain and simple. The game completely lacks the realism that has always been the goal of the D&D franchise in both computer and tabletop versions. Instead of making interesting, imaginative, realistic quests full of roleplaying and strategy, they have made a horrid beatdown-the-boss game of loot and hack-n-slash. Don't worry, people will be quitting when the current generation MMORPGs start arriving that actually appeal to the RPG crowd.
It always cracks me up to see someone use "realism" as an arguement agasint a game, not to mention a Fantasy Game at that! Let me go get my spell book...
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre!
sheesh.
It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
It always cracks me up to see someone use "realism" as an arguement agasint a game, not to mention a Fantasy Game at that! Let me go get my spell book...
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre! sheesh. It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
It always cracks me up to see someone use "realism" as an arguement agasint a game, not to mention a Fantasy Game at that! Let me go get my spell book...
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre! sheesh. It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
It always cracks me up to see someone use "realism" as an arguement agasint a game, not to mention a Fantasy Game at that! Let me go get my spell book...
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre! sheesh. It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
Technically speaking, other than the fantasy critters you list, you COULD do all of the above in real life. There are people who make a living going on what one would consider 'adventures' every day I personally have dual wielded weapons (tsai) and could easily kill things/people with them
Yes, it's a game, yes it's fantasy. But even in the precepts that it is a game and it is fantasy there are certain concepts within the game that are maintained to maintain a sense of 'reality'. That's what people are trying to point out. Call it balance, call it realism, call it whatever you like. Bottom line is there are certain game mechanics that are necessary to make gameplay flow properly and feel 'real' to people who are playing. Like I said there are SOME things the OP pointed out that do irritate players but he is over-blowing the situation to an extreme.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
Here's another point that hasn't been mentioned.
Being able to trip bosses was NOT unbalancing in the slightest bit.
Sure, it was possible to trip the Titan, but it was still a pain in the neck to pull it off. It was always safer to knock him down with a pillar than by sending in a tactical fighter to trip him. At best, you had like a 50/50 chance of actually tripping the Titan (50/50 being split between 1-you trip him or 2-he kills you). It seriously wasn't unbalancing AT ALL.
A marilith can't be tripped anyways since it DOESN'T HAVE LEGS.
The Dragon? Good luck, with a +4 bonus for each extra leg over two, some crazy high bonus for being several size categories larger than you, and then a really high STR score; the Dragon is for all intents untrippable, with or without immunities.
The only purple-named that one would even bother trying to trip was the Titan and the Stormreaver. That's it. Two guys.
Where the trip nerf really hurt with the red named bosses that are EVERYWHERE in the game.
So here is the big problem for tactical fighter...all of the tough bad guys have been given a blanket immunity to the tactical fighter's abilities. So a tactical figher only works as long as your fighting easy stuff.
So who in their right mind would want to build a tactical fighter now? Why would a someone want to build a character that can really only be used to a noticeable effect on the "easy" fights?
Very sensible response that many people need to keep in mind when they cry over nerfs. This doesn't just apply to DDO but all mmorpgs.
While I do agree that blanket immunities generally suck and seem to be an easy way out, I can also look at the other side and realise something had to be done. Let's face it the raids were trivial and to some extent the still are (well most of them).
However, like any MMO & and P&P game with a semi-decent DM adjustments will be made to nullify abilities that trivialize the quest. That I don;t have a problem with. I mean really, the Titan was completely a joke when people could trip and cometfall him, not that it's much harder now but at least it does require some thought going into it.
And if I remember correctly Ridd used to be with Role Players, only ran with his Cleric once in PoP on my WF pally. However I could be mistaken since I have basically relocated to Arrgo & haven't played on Khyber in a few months..... I wondwer if I am still in my old guild Unearthed Arcana??
I think a lot of the PnP rules and items are a bit borked if you don't have a human DM trying to work around them.
Lets see the vorpal has a higher probability of removing its head in less than 14 hits, than not (less than a second), so should we allow that. Wounding of puncturing rapiers could probably kill it in less hits, should we allow them. Weakening of enfeebling, rendering it unable to hit, paralyse it, stone it, FOD it, it never ends.
So please justify why you tripping it should justify special treatment?
The big problem I see with DDO raids is that they do not make much use of mob synergy. You are generally a team of 12 beating on a single mob.
The dragon should have a couple dragon dudes hanging out helping her out. The stormreaver should be able to command the air elementals to swarm the party, etc. Just doing this would make raids much more difficult and it would really be so difficult that you could remove all blanket immunities without making it too easy.
I originally started with the Band of the Five Fingers, which got merged into Deities & Demigods which split off into Lava Divers.
Well, it changed a lot for my fighter who had spent FIVE feats to get improved trip and spring attack.
It would take 7 siberys dragonshards to fix my character at this point. It seems like collecting seven dragonshards would take longer than rerolling, too.
Man I've never seen anyone cry about a changed aspect of the game as much as you especially something so trivial. Tripping mobs like the Warforged Titan is not only completely ridiculous but it was an exploit and they had to do something about it. Building a toon only for trip and nothing else was idiotic anyway, stop crying and reroll your nubbed up useless fighter which apparently only had one previous use anyway.
Well, it changed a lot for my fighter who had spent FIVE feats to get improved trip and spring attack.
It would take 7 siberys dragonshards to fix my character at this point. It seems like collecting seven dragonshards would take longer than rerolling, too.
Does it cost five feats? I haven't set one up recently so I don't remember. A switch probably can be done in fewer dragonshards since fighters have so many slots to work with.
The dragonshards are trivial to obtain. I think I've still got a dozen of them leftover from the freebies across all of my characters. The real cost is the 2 or 3 days you have to wait inbetween executing each dragonshard.
Tripping mobs is no more of an exploit than magic missiling them, or hitting them with a sword.
You have trip specialists, you have armor specialists, you have dps specialists., fire specialists, cc specialists, charm specialists. Everyone builds their character the way they want. It's not constructive to call them idiotic and nubs for doing so.
Well, I was including mobility and spring attack in my "fix", since spring attack does nothing now.
That's the other thing, if the DEVs don't want people to hit moving monsters, then why did they include the spring attack feat?
Wait?
Exploiting?
So you are trying to tell me that having a fighter with improved trip, all the trip enhancements, and a vertigo +10 item was an exploit?
Really?
It just seems like such an expansive use of the word, "exploit".
Also, could you detail precisely what was unbalancing (pardon the pun) about tripping the Titan? To trip the titan with a melee character was a CHALLENGE. The titan does a lot of damage up close. The Titan also got a save against the trip attempt. He had a good save, too, since he has such a high STR score and tripping a monster requires succeeding on an opposed STR check.
Once again, I ask: What exactly was unbalancing about a melee character tripping the Titan at great risk to himself and his equipment?
The monsters shouldn't have ANY immunities other than what are found in the monster manual for D&D v3.5.
You should be able to use any special attack or spell against any monster provided the monster does not have a race specific resistance or immunity in it's Monster Manual profile.
Remove blanket immunities and let the DICE sort it all out.
It is a d20 system, after all.
Well, I was including mobility and spring attack in my "fix", since spring attack does nothing now.
That's the other thing, if the DEVs don't want people to hit moving monsters, then why did they include the spring attack feat?
Well if you put out a full list of your current feats and what you want to switch to we can probably come up with a sequence to do it in fewer dragonshards. You're probably still talking about a 2 week operation though.Spring attack just removes the -4 penalty on your to-hit when _you_ are moving. It has nothing to do with if the mob is moving or not.
I think madkk is overly sinsitive to the issue, but i agree that the way turbine chose to "balance" trip was horrible. I think it clearly stepped out of the boundries between cost/effectivness/continuity/player-respect. there are many small changes they could of made to increase the difficulty without resorting to such cheap unthought-out blanket changes.
Raids were largely trivial even with red/purple name immunities. I don't think the addition of trip to the list of immuntiies really changed much.The big problem I see with DDO raids is that they do not make much use of mob synergy. You are generally a team of 12 beating on a single mob.
The dragon should have a couple dragon dudes hanging out helping her out. The stormreaver should be able to command the air elementals to swarm the party, etc. Just doing this would make raids much more difficult and it would really be so difficult that you could remove all blanket immunities without making it too easy.
I originally started with the Band of the Five Fingers, which got merged into Deities & Demigods which split off into Lava Divers.
I agree with your veiws on the raids.
Band of Five Fingers, I remember them had a RL customer at my job that was a Cleric in that guild, can't remember his name, Phillipino dude. Ahhh Dieties, sorry didn;t remember that but yea I do remember the guild and some kinda stink that caused the split. 1 Big reason I try not to get into Guild Politics and PUG a lot:)
And I believe Madd was refering to the fact that it is hard as hell to hit a mob from behind now, I wouldn't say the feats worthless (well Mobility is but then again it always was), I can still hit from behind just have to move to the side of the mob a little and run nearly parallel to it to score hits. I would say that Spring Attack was perhaps devalued a bit, but then again I never really took to that line.
As to trip, ect. a Tactical Fighter is still valuable against 99% of the encounters, anything without a red or purple name. I have a Warforged Intimitank that has Stunning Blow and Improved Trip, I still love them and still think they are valuable feats.
Then can you please explain what purpose rules serve if they are to be disregarded at the slightest whim?
I dunno maybe you should try asking Dave Arnesson, one of the original creeators of D&D, that question. He thought that Gygax's penchant for trying to make comprehensive rules for all situations to be unrealistic. From his point of view you simply can't do it and it should be up to the DM/GM.Perhpas Dave is right perhaps the Gygax comprehensive paradigm is a pipe dream. MMORPGs seem to be supporting Dave more than Gary. The problem is older than video games.
Well, the 3.5 MM has a system for making "unique" versions of every monster, so giving them "extra" blanket immunities is not beyond the rules...then again, it should raise their CR by quite a bit.
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Turbine only follows the D&D rules when it suites them. If they see someone using their brian to figure something out well, they can't have that and they nerf your ability to do what ever it is that you are trying to do.
They made a RED dragon immune to cold damage for Christ sake lol.
I haven't tried it but I'm pretty sure that is dispellable. She's not a stupid dragon, she has spells so she casts protection from cold on herself like any other caster would.
Yes, I believe she casts Cold Resistance and Cold Protection on herself like, I dunno any intelligent creature with a weakness to cold and levels of an Arcane (or Divine) casting class might.I haven't tried it but I'm pretty sure that is dispellable. She's not a stupid dragon, she has spells so she casts protection from cold on herself like any other caster would.
A lot of the complaints I see about nerfs, ect.. seem to me to come from individuals that have a hard time adapting to changing environments. Personally I like changes, they keep challenges fresh and keep the boredom from setting in IMHO.
I agree with the OP fully.
Turbine hired the wrong people to design their D&D game, plain and simple. The game completely lacks the realism that has always been the goal of the D&D franchise in both computer and tabletop versions. Instead of making interesting, imaginative, realistic quests full of roleplaying and strategy, they have made a horrid beatdown-the-boss game of loot and hack-n-slash.
Don't worry, people will be quitting when the current generation MMORPGs start arriving that actually appeal to the RPG crowd.
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre!
sheesh.
It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
Technically speaking, other than the fantasy critters you list, you COULD do all of the above in real life. There are people who make a living going on what one would consider 'adventures' every day
I personally have dual wielded weapons (tsai) and could easily kill things/people with them 
Yes, it's a game, yes it's fantasy. But even in the precepts that it is a game and it is fantasy there are certain concepts within the game that are maintained to maintain a sense of 'reality'. That's what people are trying to point out. Call it balance, call it realism, call it whatever you like. Bottom line is there are certain game mechanics that are necessary to make gameplay flow properly and feel 'real' to people who are playing. Like I said there are SOME things the OP pointed out that do irritate players but he is over-blowing the situation to an extreme.
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