It always cracks me up to see someone use "realism" as an arguement agasint a game, not to mention a Fantasy Game at that! Let me go get my spell book...
Oh wait, I forgot...D&D is real! Hey, have you all just seen that hot Elf babe who works at the local cafe? Her manager is a REAL Ogre! sheesh. It reminds of being 8 years old and arguring who would win a fight, batman or spiderman. And don't start, we all know Batman would kick Spidy's ass!
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
I disagree..in real life you can do all these things. I find it easier when I stay off my Meds for 2-3 weeks at a time.
Man, I hate to make a comment in an ugly thread (as a rule I avoid them these days) but work is pretty slow, so here goes:
As a long time tabletop gamer of D&D (started in 1981 and have run every edition to date, usually weekly) I can safely say that DDO, while a fine game in its own right, is nothing more than a video game that happens to look, feel, and sometimes play a bit like its tabletop progenitor. Arguing that trip attacks in DDO should work like they do in the tabletop edition is nonsensical, and leads to a slippery argument that one should then ditch the achievement system, since they are not in the tabletop edition and unbalance play (actually they don't, since DDO is balanced for its higher level of play...sort of); all the excessive magic items in DDO which are essential to its play style should be dumped too, since they are not in D&D on the tabletop, either. The spell point system needs to go, too. And the real-time combat system needs to go, since D&D is a turn-based system, and the limiting factors on the tabletop that make the Trip Attack option work are based on the premise of a turn-based system and not a real-time free-for-all like is in DDO.
There, said it. OP may simply rephrase his post to: "They made changes to the video game I did not like. Now I hate it." and lets all move on.
BTW: In full disclosure, although I like DDO, I am not now playing it because of the lack of solo content from 5th level on. I am uber-casual, and do not have the time to focus on a game which demands grouping to have any hope of advancement. But I am not going to tell people this game sucks just because I have some personal preference that the game does not meet (although I keep my fingers crossed that DDO will one day get a big upgrade that makes the game as fun and soloable as, say, WoW....at least, for time-pressed people like myself).
Man, I hate to make a comment in an ugly thread (as a rule I avoid them these days) but work is pretty slow, so here goes: As a long time tabletop gamer of D&D (started in 1981 and have run every edition to date, usually weekly) I can safely say that DDO, while a fine game in its own right, is nothing more than a video game that happens to look, feel, and sometimes play a bit like its tabletop progenitor. Arguing that trip attacks in DDO should work like they do in the tabletop edition is nonsensical, and leads to a slippery argument that one should then ditch the achievement system, since they are not in the tabletop edition and unbalance play (actually they don't, since DDO is balanced for its higher level of play...sort of); all the excessive magic items in DDO which are essential to its play style should be dumped too, since they are not in D&D on the tabletop, either. The spell point system needs to go, too. And the real-time combat system needs to go, since D&D is a turn-based system, and the limiting factors on the tabletop that make the Trip Attack option work are based on the premise of a turn-based system and not a real-time free-for-all like is in DDO. There, said it. OP may simply rephrase his post to: "They made changes to the video game I did not like. Now I hate it." and lets all move on. BTW: In full disclosure, although I like DDO, I am not now playing it because of the lack of solo content from 5th level on. I am uber-casual, and do not have the time to focus on a game which demands grouping to have any hope of advancement. But I am not going to tell people this game sucks just because I have some personal preference that the game does not meet (although I keep my fingers crossed that DDO will one day get a big upgrade that makes the game as fun and soloable as, say, WoW....at least, for time-pressed people like myself).
To quote the weird voice over dude in Street Fighter 2
YOU WIN....PERFECT!!!
I could not have put that better myself. While I currently play DDO I totally see where you are coming from. I am also hard pressed for time, and a very casual player myself so I can see exactly what you mean. My highest character is lvl 11, but I barely play him because of time constraints. I mainly mess around with different alts and stuff. My girlfriend on the other hand...well she plays literally ALL DAY. She doesn't have a job and lives with her parents so she has nothing but time.
BAH SOMEONE NERF MY GIRLFRIEND'S PLAY TIME!
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG).
Role-playing has nothing at all to do with "emulating real life". You are simply playing the role of a character within the rule system the game has laid out.
That game system can be mostly based in reality (e.g. Sims, Second Life) or not at all (e.g. D&D, WoW, SWG) or even anywhere in-between.
Role-playing has nothing at all to do with "emulating real life". You are simply playing the role of a character within the rule system the game has laid out. That game system can be mostly based in reality (e.g. Sims, Second Life) or not at all (e.g. D&D, WoW, SWG) or even anywhere in-between.
Roleplaying is nothing but emulating real life. There is no way the PHB could inform players of every possible reaction they should take when confronted with a particular scenario, and it would make an extremely moronic game if it attempted to do so. How many DMs have been surprised by real world tactics employed by players, and had to go along with it simply because it could happen [in real life]?
This forum is not the place for such a discussion, but one could effectively argue that all forms of play across all species worldwide are emulations of scenarios, problems, and procedures in real life. Play, IMO, is quite uninteresting when it doesn't emulate something that could really happen or a problem that really needs solved.
Tiger cubs don't play tiddlywinks with each other. They play cat and mouse.
BTW: In full disclosure, although I like DDO, I am not now playing it because of the lack of solo content from 5th level on. I am uber-casual, and do not have the time to focus on a game which demands grouping to have any hope of advancement. But I am not going to tell people this game sucks just because I have some personal preference that the game does not meet (although I keep my fingers crossed that DDO will one day get a big upgrade that makes the game as fun and soloable as, say, WoW....at least, for time-pressed people like myself).
Though I didn't quote it all - Good Post, T!
As to the difficulty of soloing past 5th level - I hear ya! What class are you? I am currently at an impass in soloing Splinterskull - I can do the outer part with my eyes closed, but just can't quite get through to find/kill the shaman/summoner/warlock whatever he is. I had made it to the point of clearing the two side rooms, but then jumped off a ledge and got stuck between the ledge and the wall; I was out of mana, but still had quite a few potions left
Another place [that I am now sick of, having done them 5-6 times each on normal] is the sewers in House Denieth. The first two [Despair & Darkness, I believe] are easy on solo and ok on Normal; the last two are quite tough on Normal - due mainly to elementals ramping up from CR2-3 to CR5.
I'm pretty sure that there is an outdoor area, too, that is level 2-7 just off the Marketplace, but I can't recall the name atm [scorched something maybe?] I haven't checked that out yet as I am obsessed with finishing Splinterskull right now
Any way - PM me your class/server and I'll give ya a hand if I can. I play Saturday nights on Khyber, mostly with my 4 yr old nephew [who hasn't quite figured out that he needs to keep attacking once we start ] If there is any gear that we aren't using [i think I have some extra Int & Wis items], I could mail them to you...
I really could not make it through this thread due to the fact that its so insane, but.....I find it hilarious that the OP (or anyone for that matter) has a character that is all about tripping enemies rofl.... Is that called trip spec of something? I played D&D up to 2nd ed.( i don't know shat about 3rd ed +) Has the rule set fallen so low that this is a legitimate way to design a character? Or has Turbine lost their mind in their translation...
So I roll up on a lich king and my first move is to walk up and trip it? Is it possible to trip a mob to death? Rofl... Who would have thought it was that easy all along.
Someone probably should have told this to Yoda. All the man had to do was trip Emperor Palpatine and he could have ended the entire war!
Seriously WTF did you expect to get from Turbine? They don't know anything about anything. We are talking about a company that hasn't had an original idea since Asheron's Call. They are piggybacking on your love for franchises like D&D and LOTRO trying to milk it for all its worth.
Seriously WTF did you expect to get from Turbine? They don't know anything about anything. We are talking about a company that hasn't had an original idea since Asheron's Call. They are piggybacking on your love for franchises like D&D and LOTRO trying to milk it for all its worth.
I was very apprehensive about DDO when I first discovered the studio responsible for the Asceron's Call 2 fiasco was developing it. AC2 alone is enough reason for many people to never touch another Turbine game. I'm not one of those who were burned by Turbine, at least not yet, but I have been burned by SOE and Lucas Arts over the Star Wars Galaxies "new game enhancements" and completely understand others who've experianced such deception.
Be it traps, puzzles, or environments which provide tactical advantages, I'd say DDO is extremely unique. While it is heavily based upon the 3.5 rule system (I am only familar with 1.0) they have made acceptable changes to better influence gameplay.
Were' seeing is that Turbine DOES in fact pay attention to their subscriber's opinions. They give a good impression through development that the player's feedback are influencing design. New areas and more soloable content are a few examples that are contiuosly being added and improved upon.
Lately it's become an issue where difficulty checks (DC) were a little too inflated. The recent publish notes show that Enhancements are being increased to reflect a more specialized role for rogues and paladins so the game play is inline with the character development. Apparently there were enough players commenting how that +1 stat buff from a Paladin aura or the +1 skil bonus for the rogue was not in sync with the currently inflated DC's; progresses at 2,4,6 bonuses rather then 1,2,3; example of rewritting rules to improve game play.
When it comes down to it, the DC's are inflated to enhance "pacing" of the game play experiance. While it's not 100% accurate to the 3.5 rules (so I've heard) it does follow it closely enough to be recognizable by those who aren't nescasarily book junkies.
They wanted to balance trip because they didn't like how effective it was against certain bosses. They decided to just give all red and purple named bosses a blanket immunity to trip. IMO...this was the easy, cheap, uncreative, and lazy way to balance trip. I would be a bad person if I criticized their decision without offering my own (better) alternatives. For starters, if you want to balance trip without giving blanket immunities, the first thing you would do is: ALLOW CASTING WHILE PRONE BY USING A CONCENTRATION CHECK! Sorry for yelling, but I just had to because it seems as if though I'm the only one to have thought of this. Oh, no's, dis uber thinker came up wit an idea 2 balance trip AND make skilz more usefull....BLASPHEMY I TELL YOU! ALLOW MELEE ATTACKS WITH A -4 PENALTY WHILE PRONE!
I wish you would make your posts interesting in regards to the argurement of Trip.
Wouldn't casting while prone be soemthing directly and only realted to PvP? In no way does it make sense that a tiny little halfling should be able to trip a Two Hundrend Thousand Ton behemoth without causing instand death upon their self. The problem here lies within Mass of the objects. Sure, a Dungeon Master could allow it within a role playing environment but I suspect it would have have to be pretty ingenous, or setting the mood, before such Monty Hall style mechanics were initiated.
I would be OK if spells which had only somatic componets were allowed whlie triped. It would help with the Auto Trip that's currently in the game - I hate that auto trip shit!
i hate it when i get into a dungeon only to find a boss is immune to one of my attacks. its even worse when that attack is my main attack or one of my main attacks. WoW had too many of these bosses running around and it sucked to fight them. of course they sort of counter balanced this (to a certain degree) by adding in special skills that removed buffs or stopped the boss from going on a rampage...it still doesnt cover the fact that you cant use your main skills.
as for tipping a boss...what the hell is wrong with that? if Turbine thinks players are killing the boss too quickly then maybe they should lower the damage output of a class. a simple trip helps a battle but its not the be all end all of the whole fight.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Mindspat are you familiar with the trip mechanics in D&D.
Firstly, the only weapon that can be used to initiate a trip attempt is a khopesh. Also, one must have improved trip in order to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity.
The target of the trip receives a +4 trip bonus for every size category above the attacker. This means that a titan would get an inherent +16 bonus Vs the halfling's trip attempt without even counting the Titan's strength (if a Titan is 4 size categories larger than a halfling, I forget).
You see, it was already balanced. A halfling would have a very small chance of tripping the Titan. Even a Dwarf would have a very small chance of tripping the titan,
It just takes a little bit of thought to see how being able to cast and attack while prone would affect a lot more than PvP.
Take, for example, the Wizard King. The wizard king is a prime target for a trip attempt. Not very high STR, not very high DEX, and no size bonus. He's the perfect target to trip. Unfortunately, the DEVs didn't like how tactical fighters were destroying the wizard king (among other nonraid bosses). The Devs chose the cheap, easy, and completely unimaginative solution to fix the mechanics by making all bosses immune to trip. If he could cast offensive spells while prone, then one could trip the wizard king and he would still put up a fight.
The same applies to countless red named bosses in the game who would be able to attack and cast spells while tripped.
Giving monsters the ability to cast and attack while prone would have fixed any imbalance issues involved with trip before the mega-nerf.
Finding creative and legitimate ways to make fights a challenge>nonsensical blanket immunties.
Unfortunately, Turbine doesn't care about making things work the right way...just making them work the easiest and most expedient way.
Typical of the low quality work that is endemic in todays business world.
Reason why D&DO got a big suck written all over it. What the freaking bloody hell does mana have to do with D&D? Memorize the spells like they do in the PnP for christ sake. One reason why I didnt got past the trial when this game was brand, spanking new. They kinda promised a pure bread n butter D&D experience close to the PnP game and completely failed to deliver. Story of most mmo's nowadays though. Most got FAIL written all over them. Its extremely ironic that to get a good mmo experience nowadays you have to go to the old classics in the genre.
One word: Mana. Reason why D&DO got a big suck written all over it. What the freaking bloody hell does mana have to do with D&D? Memorize the spells like they do in the PnP for christ sake. One reason why I didnt got past the trial when this game was brand, spanking new. They kinda promised a pure bread n butter D&D experience close to the PnP game and completely failed to deliver. Story of most mmo's nowadays though. Most got FAIL written all over them. Its extremely ironic that to get a good mmo experience nowadays you have to go to the old classics in the genre.
I kindof agree with you, but there is a variant spellcasting system in the V3.5 Dungeon Master's guide that uses mana.
D&DO's spellcasting system is modeled after the one in the Dungeon Master's guide, but with a hefty amount of beefing up done by Turbine (the mana pool system in the DMG doesn't give the characters anywhere near as many spellpoints as DDO does).
Yes...well...Even though the 3.5 rules allow it I find it outside the general idea that was D&D. Your post that they nerfed trip, spring attack and probably a bunch of other feats for their so-called balancing confirms my original thoughts about this game. For a halfling warrior to trip a giant he would never succed, even with a 20. The penalties for it are just too big inside the rules. But why they made a frail lich immune to be tripped is just silly. A better idea would be to keep the trip chance, let the lich cast spells while proned, but give the group a good +hit chance on the lich. Its the spells of the lich that is the challenge to overcome anyway.
Yes...well...Even though the 3.5 rules allow it I find it outside the general idea that was D&D. Your post that they nerfed trip, spring attack and probably a bunch of other feats for their so-called balancing confirms my original thoughts about this game. For a halfling warrior to trip a giant he would never succed, even with a 20. The penalties for it are just too big inside the rules. But why they made a frail lich immune to be tripped is just silly. A better idea would be to keep the trip chance, let the lich cast spells while proned, but give the group a good +hit chance on the lich. Its the spells of the lich that is the challenge to overcome anyway.
Does anyone have anything topical to say about an alternative to blanket immunities?
Well basically PnP has this (to a lesser extent) so its not surprising that DDO does. In fact most MMORPGs do this for various Crowd Control effects against bosses and such.
Basically the only game well designed enough to avoid blanket immunities is Guild Wars. Does it suck? Sure. But its so common there is no point in blowing an artery over hit.
I really could not make it through this thread due to the fact that its so insane, but.....I find it hilarious that the OP (or anyone for that matter) has a character that is all about tripping enemies rofl.... Is that called trip spec of something? I played D&D up to 2nd ed.( i don't know shat about 3rd ed +) Has the rule set fallen so low that this is a legitimate way to design a character? Or has Turbine lost their mind in their translation...
So I roll up on a lich king and my first move is to walk up and trip it? Is it possible to trip a mob to death? Rofl... Who would have thought it was that easy all along.
Well I don;t know about just tripping but I have heard of what is known as Tactics specced Fighters. Specialize in Tripping, Stunning Blow and sometimes Sunder.
I've got a tactical fighter, stunning blow and trip spec'd. Let's be clear though, he also can DPS damn well. If your fighter can ONLY trip, forget blaming DDO...you made a crappy character.
And let's also not forget, that using that tactical fighter EVERY WHERE ELSE in DDO makes him insanely powerful, particularly stunning blow. Which, btw, is 100 times better than trip...so not sure why anyone is all trip at this point anyway.
I've got a tactical fighter, stunning blow and trip spec'd. Let's be clear though, he also can DPS damn well. If your fighter can ONLY trip, forget blaming DDO...you made a crappy character.
And let's also not forget, that using that tactical fighter EVERY WHERE ELSE in DDO makes him insanely powerful, particularly stunning blow. Which, btw, is 100 times better than trip...so not sure why anyone is all trip at this point anyway.
I would agree with this. Grouped with a fighter a few weeks ago doing runs in Thernal (spelling) Mines and doing them on elite. He was pretty powerful person and his skills saved a lot of downtime in the group.
Your missing the whole point, Vincenz. I KNOW that your fighter can't DPS as well as a tank specc'd for damage. The feats required for DPS and tactics are for the most part mutually exclusive (combat expertise=-5 to attack....power attack=-5 to attack...so you can't really use both).
So let me get this straight, Vincenz. You actually LIKE blanket immunities. Uh, huh.
Any fighter that is specced for tactics like stunning blow and improved trip sacrifices DPS. Firstly, improved trip and stunning blow cost FEATS. These are feats that for other fighters improve DPS. If you go the tactical fighter route, then taking "power attack" is silly because of combat expertise (you don't want to have combat expertise and power attack on at the same time, that's just silly because you won't hit anything).
So the fighter specc'd for DPS still gets to use his feats on the bosses.
Power attack works on bosses.
But the tactical fighter only gets to use his feats on the easy (non boss) monsters (if it's not a boss, then it's easy, and that is a FACT unless you are a crappy player).
So the DPS tanks still get to use their feats on bosses, but the tactical tanks do not?
How is that supposed to be equitable? How is that supposed to be balanced and fair?
Everyone note that Vincenz is a huge FAN of blanket immunities and hack and slash play. Even more astounding, note that he actually likes that fact that DPS fighters are better than his fighter against bosses.
Vincenz, there is no way that your fighter does as much DPS as a DPS focused fighter. This puts your fighter at a HUGE disadvantage against bosses, since DPS fighter can use their feats against the boss but you cannot.
You're just NOT going to kill as many bosses as other fighters. You might be ok with having a mediocre tank, but I am not ok with that. If I can't make a character that can at the very least TRY to be the best around, then I do not want to make a character at all.
You see, any character that has a structured disadvantage is a GIMP. If a character is specc'd for tactics but none of those tactics work on bosses, then that character is a gimp because all he is good for is playing 2nd fiddle to the real tank that is doing more damage.
You might be happy being an "off-tank" in the boss fights, but I am not. You might be happy relegating your tank to "support duties", but I am not. If my tank is prevented from being the star of the show because of inane blanket immunities, then my tank quits.
....but I will spend five minutes of every morning pointing out negative aspects of this game to potential players on these forums.
If I can persuade just one person to stay away from this game due to the nerfs, then I feel that I have done a good deed.
...how long did it take you to level your first character to 10 before any of the level caps went up?
I seem to recall from your forum history over at DDO that it took you FOREVER. By the time you had one level 10, I had five.
So before you attack the quality of my character builds (prenerf), please take a look at yourself as a player.
I do not appreciate your personal attacks against me. If you cannot bring anything insightful or at the very least topical to the discussion, then don't enter the discussion in the first place.
EDIT: my tactics fighter had stunning blow before your fighter even existed, btw.
Comments
Yes, D&D is a fantasy game. It's also a role-playing game, which means you actively attempt to emulate real life [in a fantasy setting]. That's why they call it a Fantasy Role-Playing Game (FRPG). As a current fanboy of DDO, I can completely understand why you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, however.
I'll forgive your ignorance.
Why does him not agreeing with you make him ignorant? Being a close minded jerk sounds a bit more ignorant to me....
Anyways, FANTASY and REALITY are not one in the same. IRL I am not a halfling. IRL I do not dual wield Khopeshes. IRL I cannot in anyways run into a sewer and fight Kobolds, Ogres, Living Slimes, Skeletons, and/or any other such monster. IRL I cannot make money, or gain items by going on adventures.
The list could go on and on, and it would all eventually boil down to one thing; Real Life, and video games are two seperate things.
I disagree..in real life you can do all these things. I find it easier when I stay off my Meds for 2-3 weeks at a time.
Man, I hate to make a comment in an ugly thread (as a rule I avoid them these days) but work is pretty slow, so here goes:
As a long time tabletop gamer of D&D (started in 1981 and have run every edition to date, usually weekly) I can safely say that DDO, while a fine game in its own right, is nothing more than a video game that happens to look, feel, and sometimes play a bit like its tabletop progenitor. Arguing that trip attacks in DDO should work like they do in the tabletop edition is nonsensical, and leads to a slippery argument that one should then ditch the achievement system, since they are not in the tabletop edition and unbalance play (actually they don't, since DDO is balanced for its higher level of play...sort of); all the excessive magic items in DDO which are essential to its play style should be dumped too, since they are not in D&D on the tabletop, either. The spell point system needs to go, too. And the real-time combat system needs to go, since D&D is a turn-based system, and the limiting factors on the tabletop that make the Trip Attack option work are based on the premise of a turn-based system and not a real-time free-for-all like is in DDO.
There, said it. OP may simply rephrase his post to: "They made changes to the video game I did not like. Now I hate it." and lets all move on.
BTW: In full disclosure, although I like DDO, I am not now playing it because of the lack of solo content from 5th level on. I am uber-casual, and do not have the time to focus on a game which demands grouping to have any hope of advancement. But I am not going to tell people this game sucks just because I have some personal preference that the game does not meet (although I keep my fingers crossed that DDO will one day get a big upgrade that makes the game as fun and soloable as, say, WoW....at least, for time-pressed people like myself).
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
YOU WIN....PERFECT!!!
I could not have put that better myself. While I currently play DDO I totally see where you are coming from. I am also hard pressed for time, and a very casual player myself so I can see exactly what you mean. My highest character is lvl 11, but I barely play him because of time constraints. I mainly mess around with different alts and stuff. My girlfriend on the other hand...well she plays literally ALL DAY. She doesn't have a job and lives with her parents so she has nothing but time.
BAH SOMEONE NERF MY GIRLFRIEND'S PLAY TIME!
The sleeper awakes...and rides his dirtbike to the mall.
Role-playing has nothing at all to do with "emulating real life". You are simply playing the role of a character within the rule system the game has laid out.
That game system can be mostly based in reality (e.g. Sims, Second Life) or not at all (e.g. D&D, WoW, SWG) or even anywhere in-between.
Roleplaying is nothing but emulating real life. There is no way the PHB could inform players of every possible reaction they should take when confronted with a particular scenario, and it would make an extremely moronic game if it attempted to do so. How many DMs have been surprised by real world tactics employed by players, and had to go along with it simply because it could happen [in real life]?
This forum is not the place for such a discussion, but one could effectively argue that all forms of play across all species worldwide are emulations of scenarios, problems, and procedures in real life. Play, IMO, is quite uninteresting when it doesn't emulate something that could really happen or a problem that really needs solved.
Tiger cubs don't play tiddlywinks with each other. They play cat and mouse.
As to the difficulty of soloing past 5th level - I hear ya! What class are you? I am currently at an impass in soloing Splinterskull - I can do the outer part with my eyes closed, but just can't quite get through to find/kill the shaman/summoner/warlock whatever he is. I had made it to the point of clearing the two side rooms, but then jumped off a ledge and got stuck between the ledge and the wall; I was out of mana, but still had quite a few potions left
Another place [that I am now sick of, having done them 5-6 times each on normal] is the sewers in House Denieth. The first two [Despair & Darkness, I believe] are easy on solo and ok on Normal; the last two are quite tough on Normal - due mainly to elementals ramping up from CR2-3 to CR5.
I'm pretty sure that there is an outdoor area, too, that is level 2-7 just off the Marketplace, but I can't recall the name atm [scorched something maybe?] I haven't checked that out yet as I am obsessed with finishing Splinterskull right now
Any way - PM me your class/server and I'll give ya a hand if I can. I play Saturday nights on Khyber, mostly with my 4 yr old nephew [who hasn't quite figured out that he needs to keep attacking once we start
] If there is any gear that we aren't using [i think I have some extra Int & Wis items], I could mail them to you...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
I really could not make it through this thread due to the fact that its so insane, but.....I find it hilarious that the OP (or anyone for that matter) has a character that is all about tripping enemies rofl.... Is that called trip spec of something? I played D&D up to 2nd ed.( i don't know shat about 3rd ed +) Has the rule set fallen so low that this is a legitimate way to design a character? Or has Turbine lost their mind in their translation...
So I roll up on a lich king and my first move is to walk up and trip it? Is it possible to trip a mob to death? Rofl... Who would have thought it was that easy all along.
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Someone probably should have told this to Yoda. All the man had to do was trip Emperor Palpatine and he could have ended the entire war!
Seriously WTF did you expect to get from Turbine? They don't know anything about anything. We are talking about a company that hasn't had an original idea since Asheron's Call. They are piggybacking on your love for franchises like D&D and LOTRO trying to milk it for all its worth.
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Be it traps, puzzles, or environments which provide tactical advantages, I'd say DDO is extremely unique. While it is heavily based upon the 3.5 rule system (I am only familar with 1.0) they have made acceptable changes to better influence gameplay.
Were' seeing is that Turbine DOES in fact pay attention to their subscriber's opinions. They give a good impression through development that the player's feedback are influencing design. New areas and more soloable content are a few examples that are contiuosly being added and improved upon.
Lately it's become an issue where difficulty checks (DC) were a little too inflated. The recent publish notes show that Enhancements are being increased to reflect a more specialized role for rogues and paladins so the game play is inline with the character development. Apparently there were enough players commenting how that +1 stat buff from a Paladin aura or the +1 skil bonus for the rogue was not in sync with the currently inflated DC's; progresses at 2,4,6 bonuses rather then 1,2,3; example of rewritting rules to improve game play.
When it comes down to it, the DC's are inflated to enhance "pacing" of the game play experiance. While it's not 100% accurate to the 3.5 rules (so I've heard) it does follow it closely enough to be recognizable by those who aren't nescasarily book junkies.
I just love how uncreative and completely devoid of ingenuity the DDO devs are.
They wanted to balance trip because they didn't like how effective it was against certain bosses.
They decided to just give all red and purple named bosses a blanket immunity to trip.
IMO...this was the easy, cheap, uncreative, and lazy way to balance trip.
I would be a bad person if I criticized their decision without offering my own (better) alternatives.
For starters, if you want to balance trip without giving blanket immunities, the first thing you would do is:
ALLOW CASTING WHILE PRONE BY USING A CONCENTRATION CHECK!
Sorry for yelling, but I just had to because it seems as if though I'm the only one to have thought of this.
Oh, no's, dis uber thinker came up wit an idea 2 balance trip AND make skilz more usefull....BLASPHEMY I TELL YOU!
Uh, oh...
...I feel another idea coming on...
...her it goes...
ALLOW MELEE ATTACKS WITH A -4 PENALTY WHILE PRONE!
Common sense: making corporate beauracracies look stupid since 1929.
I can't believe how obsessed you are over tripping bosses...
it's gotta be unhealthy.
Does anyone have anything topical to say about an alternative to blanket immunities?
I wish you would make your posts interesting in regards to the argurement of Trip.
Wouldn't casting while prone be soemthing directly and only realted to PvP? In no way does it make sense that a tiny little halfling should be able to trip a Two Hundrend Thousand Ton behemoth without causing instand death upon their self. The problem here lies within Mass of the objects. Sure, a Dungeon Master could allow it within a role playing environment but I suspect it would have have to be pretty ingenous, or setting the mood, before such Monty Hall style mechanics were initiated.
I would be OK if spells which had only somatic componets were allowed whlie triped. It would help with the Auto Trip that's currently in the game - I hate that auto trip shit!
i hate it when i get into a dungeon only to find a boss is immune to one of my attacks. its even worse when that attack is my main attack or one of my main attacks. WoW had too many of these bosses running around and it sucked to fight them. of course they sort of counter balanced this (to a certain degree) by adding in special skills that removed buffs or stopped the boss from going on a rampage...it still doesnt cover the fact that you cant use your main skills.
as for tipping a boss...what the hell is wrong with that? if Turbine thinks players are killing the boss too quickly then maybe they should lower the damage output of a class. a simple trip helps a battle but its not the be all end all of the whole fight.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Mindspat are you familiar with the trip mechanics in D&D.
Firstly, the only weapon that can be used to initiate a trip attempt is a khopesh. Also, one must have improved trip in order to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity.
The target of the trip receives a +4 trip bonus for every size category above the attacker. This means that a titan would get an inherent +16 bonus Vs the halfling's trip attempt without even counting the Titan's strength (if a Titan is 4 size categories larger than a halfling, I forget).
You see, it was already balanced. A halfling would have a very small chance of tripping the Titan. Even a Dwarf would have a very small chance of tripping the titan,
It just takes a little bit of thought to see how being able to cast and attack while prone would affect a lot more than PvP.
Take, for example, the Wizard King. The wizard king is a prime target for a trip attempt. Not very high STR, not very high DEX, and no size bonus. He's the perfect target to trip. Unfortunately, the DEVs didn't like how tactical fighters were destroying the wizard king (among other nonraid bosses). The Devs chose the cheap, easy, and completely unimaginative solution to fix the mechanics by making all bosses immune to trip. If he could cast offensive spells while prone, then one could trip the wizard king and he would still put up a fight.
The same applies to countless red named bosses in the game who would be able to attack and cast spells while tripped.
Giving monsters the ability to cast and attack while prone would have fixed any imbalance issues involved with trip before the mega-nerf.
Finding creative and legitimate ways to make fights a challenge>nonsensical blanket immunties.
Unfortunately, Turbine doesn't care about making things work the right way...just making them work the easiest and most expedient way.
Typical of the low quality work that is endemic in todays business world.
One word: Mana.
Reason why D&DO got a big suck written all over it. What the freaking bloody hell does mana have to do with D&D? Memorize the spells like they do in the PnP for christ sake. One reason why I didnt got past the trial when this game was brand, spanking new. They kinda promised a pure bread n butter D&D experience close to the PnP game and completely failed to deliver. Story of most mmo's nowadays though. Most got FAIL written all over them. Its extremely ironic that to get a good mmo experience nowadays you have to go to the old classics in the genre.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I kindof agree with you, but there is a variant spellcasting system in the V3.5 Dungeon Master's guide that uses mana.
D&DO's spellcasting system is modeled after the one in the Dungeon Master's guide, but with a hefty amount of beefing up done by Turbine (the mana pool system in the DMG doesn't give the characters anywhere near as many spellpoints as DDO does).
Yes...well...Even though the 3.5 rules allow it I find it outside the general idea that was D&D. Your post that they nerfed trip, spring attack and probably a bunch of other feats for their so-called balancing confirms my original thoughts about this game. For a halfling warrior to trip a giant he would never succed, even with a 20. The penalties for it are just too big inside the rules. But why they made a frail lich immune to be tripped is just silly. A better idea would be to keep the trip chance, let the lich cast spells while proned, but give the group a good +hit chance on the lich. Its the spells of the lich that is the challenge to overcome anyway.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
QFT
Basically the only game well designed enough to avoid blanket immunities is Guild Wars. Does it suck? Sure. But its so common there is no point in blowing an artery over hit.
Well I don;t know about just tripping but I have heard of what is known as Tactics specced Fighters. Specialize in Tripping, Stunning Blow and sometimes Sunder.
I've got a tactical fighter, stunning blow and trip spec'd. Let's be clear though, he also can DPS damn well. If your fighter can ONLY trip, forget blaming DDO...you made a crappy character.
And let's also not forget, that using that tactical fighter EVERY WHERE ELSE in DDO makes him insanely powerful, particularly stunning blow. Which, btw, is 100 times better than trip...so not sure why anyone is all trip at this point anyway.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Your missing the whole point, Vincenz. I KNOW that your fighter can't DPS as well as a tank specc'd for damage. The feats required for DPS and tactics are for the most part mutually exclusive (combat expertise=-5 to attack....power attack=-5 to attack...so you can't really use both).
So let me get this straight, Vincenz. You actually LIKE blanket immunities. Uh, huh.
Any fighter that is specced for tactics like stunning blow and improved trip sacrifices DPS. Firstly, improved trip and stunning blow cost FEATS. These are feats that for other fighters improve DPS. If you go the tactical fighter route, then taking "power attack" is silly because of combat expertise (you don't want to have combat expertise and power attack on at the same time, that's just silly because you won't hit anything).
So the fighter specc'd for DPS still gets to use his feats on the bosses.
Power attack works on bosses.
But the tactical fighter only gets to use his feats on the easy (non boss) monsters (if it's not a boss, then it's easy, and that is a FACT unless you are a crappy player).
So the DPS tanks still get to use their feats on bosses, but the tactical tanks do not?
How is that supposed to be equitable? How is that supposed to be balanced and fair?
Everyone note that Vincenz is a huge FAN of blanket immunities and hack and slash play. Even more astounding, note that he actually likes that fact that DPS fighters are better than his fighter against bosses.
Vincenz, there is no way that your fighter does as much DPS as a DPS focused fighter. This puts your fighter at a HUGE disadvantage against bosses, since DPS fighter can use their feats against the boss but you cannot.
You're just NOT going to kill as many bosses as other fighters. You might be ok with having a mediocre tank, but I am not ok with that. If I can't make a character that can at the very least TRY to be the best around, then I do not want to make a character at all.
You see, any character that has a structured disadvantage is a GIMP. If a character is specc'd for tactics but none of those tactics work on bosses, then that character is a gimp because all he is good for is playing 2nd fiddle to the real tank that is doing more damage.
You might be happy being an "off-tank" in the boss fights, but I am not. You might be happy relegating your tank to "support duties", but I am not. If my tank is prevented from being the star of the show because of inane blanket immunities, then my tank quits.
....but I will spend five minutes of every morning pointing out negative aspects of this game to potential players on these forums.
If I can persuade just one person to stay away from this game due to the nerfs, then I feel that I have done a good deed.
One more thing, Vinz...
...how long did it take you to level your first character to 10 before any of the level caps went up?
I seem to recall from your forum history over at DDO that it took you FOREVER. By the time you had one level 10, I had five.
So before you attack the quality of my character builds (prenerf), please take a look at yourself as a player.
I do not appreciate your personal attacks against me. If you cannot bring anything insightful or at the very least topical to the discussion, then don't enter the discussion in the first place.
EDIT: my tactics fighter had stunning blow before your fighter even existed, btw.