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MMORPG the slowest moving genre in gaming ever!!!
dawn3000
Member Posts: 24
look at the banner on the right
<---- this one: titled released games.
doesnt make this wanny cry???
90% are more then 5years old. 90% of em are dead/almost dead. many of em pure BS.
this is what the MMO market has to offer and its sad. every other genre could offer 100times more games in the same time with 100times the quality....
ok we get some good stuff this year but 2008 may be the best year for MMO ever u cant generalise on this one.
in 1 year when all of us are bored of AOC and WAR we will again be sitting here and watch the poor list of MMOs and wait several years for the next new game....
sorry for bad english!
Comments
Are you sure that you know what you are searching for?
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
MMO.. have several problems.....
Hard to develop compared to other games, also harder and more complicated to keep them running, all because of the servers... Expensive entertainment, you need to pay to play.. in some of them...
The point is that.. a lot of developers are taking mmo like common games, for me that list should be like 5 times shorter, filled with good games, with a nice variation of game styles and such.. not a bunch of crap that are the same after all...
Try something that is cool for you, sometimes you can get a few games and like one because is real and the other one because isnt real.... sounds kinda crazy but variation do the trick.
<--- Like UT3 over CoD4, CSS, and such, because is insane and dont have to wait for the rest to respawn after getting pwned...
<---- Love MIITW over AOEIII and such, because is real and I have to think what to do... no turnbacks...
Although I agree the market is slow moving, you must understand to compare MMORPGs to other PC or Console games is like comparing Apples to Polynesian stink weed.
FPS or strategy based does not have the massive interactivity that these games must contend with. With that interactivity leads to significant ripple effects. If you play a console FPS and some opponant is using a hack, ok, you lose a game, but the next game you play is NOT effected by this previous experience. If someone hacks a MMORPG, you can be effected both directly, or indirectly for the remaining length of time in game. This is more obvious when you speak about ingame economies. ONe hack can depreciate an entire industry or craft. A dupe bug can send millions or items or currency into a market.
In the end, MMORPGs must take their time and be careful. We as gamers must be patient.
As such, we must wait for the peaks and troughs of the industry. 3 years ago, we got WoW, EQ2..that was a peak, currently we are in a trough...2008 with WAR/AoC we will peak again.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
And you also have to remember, that developers making series like NHL, Call of Duty, and Battlefield make some improvements to their game engine, create new content, and launch that as a new game every year. Whereas an MMO developer makes some improvements to their game engine, creates new content, and launches that as an expansion to their already existing game. So naturally the number of MMOs stays smaller than the number of some other games.
Anarchy Online dead
ArchLord dead
Asheron's Call dead
City of Heroes almost dead
City of Villains almost dead
D&D Online almost dead
Dark Age of Camelot dead
Dark and Light dead
EVE Online OK
Everquest dead
Everquest II almost dead
Face of Mankind wtf
Final Fantasy XI almost dead
Fury dead
Guild Wars OK
Hellgate: London almost dead
Horizons dead
Knight Online wtf
Lineage II low pop
Lord of the Rings Online OK but low pop
MapleStory wtf
The Matrix Online dead
Phantasy Star Universe dead
Pirates of the Burning Sea OK
Planetside dead
RF Online dead
Ragnarok Online almost dead
Roma Victor dead
The Saga of Ryzom dead
Second Life dead
Shadowbane dead
Silkroad Online wtf
Star Wars Galaxies dead
Tabula Rasa low pop
Ultima Online dead
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes low pop
World War II Online wtf
World of Warcraft only 1 really ok
(sorry tab didnt work)
so u can drop the list to
to 3-4 games worth mentioning. this is what we got after 2decades of MMOs...
and iam not saying these games suck... many of em were great: WERE... they are so old that noone plays em anymore. so ye MMO market is very slow very! and i cant see em speed up alot.
I'd like to see more of a variety in the MMORPG genre. I'd also like to see more 'quality'. Less 'cut old system, paste to new IP, rinse, repeat until we find the WoW-killer' formula.
It's not that I don't want to see new or fresh titles rolling out for different IP's, it's just that I think we've got some products out now that just aren't living up to their potential. If I look at Star Wars, the Matrix, Lord of the Rings, and D&D... all of which seem to have some 'core' followers, but none of those games are the success stories they could/should've been.
Now folks are salivating over a game based off the IP: Conan. I doubt many fo the people that are so hyped over the game read the books, so I'm going to go off of the theory that most know of Conan from the movies. Arnold Schwarzenegger is undoubtedly the greatest actor (and governor) of all time, so it's easy to see why this IP makes absolute sense. Kidding. Most of the hype for the game surrounds 2 things, imho: raw violence and 'b(o)(o)bs'. The OP is right, once the novelty of those two features has worn off... UNLESS the game is absolutely UBER in other areas and truly 'next gen', it will become another fantasy-based MMORPG title collecting dust on Wal-Mart shelves come this time next year.
I'm glad we aren't stuck in a top-view MMORPG world. For that, I am truly thankful. Though those games still roll-out and have some followers, I really am happy that 3D environments were created in MMORPG's for us to explore.
But what features do we really want in next-gen? Boobs and gore? And really, are we ready for 'next gen'? And it's almost as if any MMO creator that tries to go 'next gen' with their product add's the FPS-syle combat system into the mix. Star Wars Galaxies: NGE, Hellgate: London, Tabula Rasa, Chronicles of Spellborn, Age of Conan, etc.,.. Is that really the direction we're heading?
I look at a lot of online FPS games and see MMORPG'esque features thrown in. Players create accounts, they essentially play/grind for rank, titles, armor, weapons, unlock vehicles, etc.,...
And the final and 3rd component... consoles. So an FPS-style MMORPG that is playable on PC and console is 'next-gen'? And how will that hinder progression in the MMORPG world? If the dev's have to worry about 'balance' between a PC player and a console player, how watered down will future titles be?
I look at the upcoming launch of 'the Force Unleashed' and think 'BS'... console only. I also have to think the reason there is currently no PC version of the game coming, support/development costs for the PC platform. So, to take it a step further... are MMORPG's looking to go 'console only'?
everyone is waiting so hard vor AOC and WAR to come out... but what if they both suck... there is absolutly no alternative we are screwed.... MMO genre will be dead for the next time...
You are talking like mmo´s is the only thing in life. Take a break, its just a game anyway, cheer up, There is plenty of good mmorpg out there, sadly they maybe dont appear to you, but I pretty sure that other ppl are happy with they are playing.
He had a very valid point. This isn't a discussion about "mmo's is the only thing in life", it's about the past 13-15 years of MMO's dating back to NWN on AOL, Meridian 59, and UO to start the genre.
With the exception of EQ1, SWG (pre-cu), and WoW..almost every other game has blown and blown bad. He talked about how everyone is waiting for AoC and WAR, but if those suck then we're screwed and waiting another 2+ years for something else.
As far as AoC and WAR being the "next big mmo"....don't get your hopes up, and don't be surprised if they are complete let-downs.
Single players RPGs are the SLOWEST
used to be tons of them 10 years ago
now you can count them on 1 hand
--- and those arent even the good ones
EQ2 fan sites
All about the FPS tbh and hopefully all RPG's will evolve into first person so they become more immersive and fun with good combat systems instead of the crap slow and boring turned based ones.
I wouldn't be massively surprised if the MMO market was eventually superceded by games that are primarily single-player/offline but allow connecting to a persistant world for group-play like instances. It'd be a shame if it happened, 'cos we'd lose a lot of the spontaneity that can make MMO's so funny, but it'd be one method to combat lag, I guess.
Whats really sad is when you look at the Games in Development catagory on the left. Pretty thin. How many of those will make it to release? How many will be a complete flop? Of those that survive, how many will actually bring something new and/or innovative to the genre? The next few years are gonna be pretty dead...unless we have some sleeper hits out there some where...
the games in development sidebar is deceiving
mmorpg.com doesnt list any mmorpg in development unless it follows their specific guidelines
- most notably "Five or more screenshots from inside of the game engine itself."
Bioware, Curt Schilling, and others are *not* listed but have mmos in development with big budgets
EQ2 fan sites
This is what happens when it takes developers 5 years to release a game, and the average gamer 2-3 months to burn through all the content, reach end game, and become totally bored and ready to move on. A lot of subs never even make it past the first month, and probably most 'potential players' never buy the game after getting their fill of it in beta.
It's not like the old days of EQ and UO when people signed up expecting to play for years. MMOs have become "fast food." Enjoy it for a few weeks, then move on.
If you cut down on the development cycle, you release a bug-filled pile of dung, and gamers will run away before you have a chance to shore it up.
As development cycles get longer and longer -- because gamers DEMAND top of the line graphics, quests, IMMERSION, and all the other buzz words -- the end result is fewer and fewer games.
It's not a pretty scene... unless you're one of a handful of companies that has the talent, money, rabid fan base, and time to pull it all off.
You are talking like mmo´s is the only thing in life. Take a break, its just a game anyway, cheer up, There is plenty of good mmorpg out there, sadly they maybe dont appear to you, but I pretty sure that other ppl are happy with they are playing.
Dawn3000 has a valid point and you as well however to one portion of your response eluding to the fact there are plenty of MMO's available to play today. This is true but try and find a few people to quest with sometime on a few of those not-dead MMO's. You can literally hear your own echo when 'lfg" I think some of us are just looking forward to something new and possibly refreshing.
Sadly, I think WAR and AoC have been overhyped and no amount of new content or inovative feature will appease those that will be potentially disappointed.
The day of launch will tell us all.
A lot of those mmo's he listed as dead or close to dead just isn't true and while he has some valid points he is severely over reacting on some of those games. The EQ2 and FFXI one was laughable especially. And those "dead" games just as DAoC and some of the others still have over 75k active subs throughout the game.
I still believe that people intend to play MMORPGs for the long haul. Its just that the current releases have been underwhelming. The limiting factor for many players for MMORPGs isnt cost as much as Time. MMORPGs have a large time commitment. A Character 's power and influence (within a guild) is directly proportional to the amount of time spent playing the game. If a player leaves to go try another game, their character loses status/power compared to others who continue. Its one of the many reasons quitting a MMORPG is hard.
Also, understand that a game's Subscription number is NOT the best representation of how fun a MMORPG is, Server population is a better representation. With server consolidations and mergers, even older games, like EQ and DAOC can have very robust player interaction.
As for increasing production times, well you can see what games are produced by quick turnaround development times ...just look at F2P games. Some are very good, others are atrocious. Its very hit or miss.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
This is the definition of dead. No game has had so little subs since before UO, man. Especially in the current industry. 75k subs is less than 1 percent. Maybe even less than a tenth of a percent.
People need to get real here. He's got a good point. I think what he's using to categorize games into dead and wtf etc he just hasn't defined. I would agree with most of his classifications in the dead and almost dead categories. If you are only considering the north american market (which means yes we don't give two craps about the Lineage grinders, etc), these games are shells of what they were either hyped as or used to be, hence friggin dead.
And again I have to agree with another poster that says hey AoC and WAR will likely be flops because let's face it, most new MMOs are flops. Only a small percentage are great hits, and again like another poster said, not just a hit for like 6 months; a hit for years (e.g. UO, EQ, WoW). Vanguard was supposed to be HUGE and if you read the stated features it was supposed to have it would have indeed been huge, but it flopped hard, and so we end up waiting on AoC and WAR. They could have the same problems Vanguard did/does.
MMOs will be plagued with this kind of disease while suits not devs make the decisions. The three biggest north american MMOs were created by NON suits, whos schedule was determined by gamer developers; not some VP who has the industry sense of a toad.
Until gamers are in the decision making chair, MMOs will suffer.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
People were just being stupid with Vanguard. The writing was on the wall for failure on multiple sites. Many people were coming out of the woodwork to tell people it will flop but people ignored it or didn't research the game. I personally don't see tons of people doing the same thing for WAR or AoC. You also have to remember that the developers on Vanguard came out and told the forums about a month and a half before release that they had no choice but to get the game out there because of money issues, and this is not the case with FunCom or EA Mythic.
Im just reviewing those, I have played within 2007 and 2008!
ArchLord dead -> is f2p now, 3 servers for me to chose, each one was full.
Everquest II almost dead ->has still many players out there
Fury dead ->never had that much pop.
Guild Wars OK ->I would say beside EVE, Lotr and WoW, GW is one of the successful MMORPGs
Hellgate: London almost dead ->started a new char this week. There are still many people playing.
Lord of the Rings Online OK but low pop ->Just tested it 10 days. But pop was like EQ2, or even more.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes low pop ->after servermerge pop got better a little bit, but could be more for this huge world
Imo the problem today is, that beside WoW there are way to much games out there. So there are many games with his core players, but none of them makes much cash. So they cannot improve their game, or they release a followergame with many bugs, few quests and no endcontent.
AoC, WAR and Spellborn are the coming hopes, lets see!
Spellborn will be much polished when it gets released and it will have a refreshing new fightsystem, but will it be successful as its not known very much?
AoC has many followers and theres a great hype around it, but will it run smooth on normal PCs?
WAR has most potential, as its made from guys who know how to make MMORPGs, it has much followers and it should rum smooth on most systems.
Edit: Playing Vanguard today shows me, that they have released it one year to early. Could have been the great next game, as it has a really huge world with much space for content, we had so many wonderful moments while traveling around. Telon is definitely one of the beautifulest worlds I have seen.
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
Problem is, most of the MMOs not on that list are probably still a few years away from launch. So, we're looking at the same situation. Personally, I'm interested to see what comes out of that next crop, because I'm not seeing much diversity with the 2008 prospects.
I think the OP's problem is he appears to be classifying the current MMORPG market based on its current population, as if that's really the only factor that makes a game fun. That being the case then I guess only 4 or 5 games qualify as he put in his original list.
Yet, you go to any of these other games and find 35-150K people having a great time playing the game. With proper server merges and what not, the games continue to roll on, and they players find there are just as many people around them as on any WOW server.
Right now I see plenty of choice out there, an coming up this year, there is far more than AOC and WAR to look forward to. AION and TCoS both look like solid contenders, Stargate Worlds is soon to follow behind and of course, we always have Darkfall
Sure, there's been some hard times recently, especially for sandbox MMO players, but otherwise I think there's a pretty good choice of games to still play. I picked up EVE last year and my only regret is that I didn't start it sooner. Even after the new games come out this year I'm going to keep my EVE accounts active and play from time to time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
but I expect to see some E3 announcements of these unlisted mmos which are due for next year
EQ2 fan sites