Simple Simple solution...... Just have freeworld pk servers and others no.. That way everyone is happy. Don't force someone to play your type of gameplay, people that want pure pking everywhere are people that like to gank people that avoid pvp.. Why not have a FAIR fight with someone with the SAME intentions as yourself.
I agree up to the open pk/pvp servers. however not every player who is a pk is what is called a griever. pk are just people who support open pvp with no safezones where anywhere you walk you could be killed. that is what pk want. yes their are some corpse camping pk. but that is a griever.
Also, when a player is branded a pk, they are hunted down! its not like we get any easier ride.
i will also openly admit, i have tried to pk a player in the past and he killed me. good job for him! he was a good player. I learned later that he HUNTED ME DOWN, because i killed his alt.
So what im getting at is i wanna go outside and be scared shitless of people that will kill you when you turn around.
Which is once again accomplished when you have FFA PvP servers and non PvP servers, but I am imagining the PvP servers would be pretty sparesly populated (Trammel anyone?)
great another "every game should have pvp" thread. None of us have ever read a thread like this before! What a brilliant idea!!! Well that's it I now love pvp because the pro pvp crowd completely won me over with their new, never before heard, well articulated arguement!!!
PK adds a lot to an MMO, providing it's avoidable and has consequences. EVE has the best PK model of any currently-running MMO. You can kill other players if they come into low security space but it has consequences; and players can avoid being PK'd by simply not going into low security space, but of course low security space has the best rewards.
Precisely the reason I stopped playing EVE. No one can access the areas of the most valuable ores without opening themselves up to be ganked by some online cowboy. For myself, I want my MMOs to keep their pvp confined to an arena, or similar area.
To the OP, us carebears, at least most of us, will not go running to some ego-inflated pk'er to take care of a local bully, we'll just stop playing that game.
Finally, to those who enjoy open pk, I have a suggestion: put up or shut up. Here's an option: during the game, you can flag yourself for pvp, meaning you can gank or be ganked at will. While so flagged, if you die, your assassin can take all your possessions. You wanted to add a thrill? There it is.
I love how the OP tires to glorify being a creep online by using fanciful terms comparing his activities to being a wolf… Here’s a clue for you, wolves work within a ecosystem and provide a means for strengthening a prey species by weeding out the the weak or inferior of those prey species. This cannot be applied to online gaming unless the ultimate goal is the get subscribers to stop playing a game which I’m pretty sure goes contrary to the intent of the company that provides the game.
The goal of a company that provides an online game is to get people to subscribe to their game by creating an entertaining experience for the greater majority of players, this is not accomplished by catering to the smallest segment of the gaming population that being the A/H’s or PK crowd. By lobbying for conditions where griefing is possible you reveal your true intentions and those are you have no self esteem, feel the need to inflict pain and suffering on others and that you get some sort perverse enjoyment from it. That’s not the kind of person most of us would willingly consort with.
Online gamign has been a great source of entertainment for those of us looking to come together with others to competively work toward common goals 90% in a cooperative environment. Some want the ability to ply their skills against other players which is fine and occaisionally I play on PvP servers as well but the one thing lacking almost universally is the lack of consequences on nefarious behavior. There is no code of honorable conduct nor penalties for dishonorable conduct and there should be since without it you get what we are currently faced with in online gaming.
Using myself as an example, I used to have three active accounts on Eve Online, now I have none... I had a maxed out Mage on a PvP server in WoW and ended up transferring it to a PvE server, Now this isn’t a WoW vs Eve issue, what I’m demonstrating is that if there is no viable PvE alternative you end up not retaining a subscriber.
PKing or as I view it being an online A/H is not necessary to make for an entertaining online game, its only necessary for the A/H not the gaming community at large. And while I will admit that PvP servers are necessary they need to have more stringent penalties for dishonorable/nefarious conduct to curtail the creeps that migrate to games where they can fulfill perverse fantasies at someone else’s expense, that’s why there are laws in RL society.
Calling pvpers greifers/gankers is carebear. If you know the game has pvp then you have no right crying. Just go play something without pvp.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
It depends on the mmorpg... if its an instanced game like guild wars... obviously pk doesnt apply.. but i agree for general hack n slash mmorpgs. Pk brings the excitement and gives someone a goal to become the highest level / strongest. BUT... its not gonna happen. Most mmorpg players are no-life kids that would CRY to their dying days for getting pked.
It depends on the mmorpg... if its an instanced game like guild wars... obviously pk doesnt apply.. but i agree for general hack n slash mmorpgs. Pk brings the excitement and gives someone a goal to become the highest level / strongest. BUT... its not gonna happen. Most mmorpg players are no-life kids that would CRY to their dying days for getting pked.
Hmm I always thought PK'ers were the no-life kids. Guess you learn something new every day.
I think their should be some sort of activity in every game that has the playerbase competing over somthing, but I don't think every game absolutely needs pvp in order to suceed. Its nice to throw in an arena or dueling for those who do want to pvp though.
FFXI had pvp as an option I believe, however what I really liked was the system where the 3 nations compete for control of territories through pve'ing. I can't recall its exact name I think they called it Conquest, but that was absolutely a brilliant and original idea, and it works great. If your nation fell behind in conquest, then your nation was limited to the outposts availabe and the armor/weapons/drops that their nation could acquire I believe.
My point being, I think some sort of player competition is necessary in an mmo, but I don't think it needs to be pvp in order to be fun.
PvP is a playstyle and not everyone likes it. Granted strict PvE games are not very compelling to play for the mostpart but that is the fault of the devs not the players. I enjoy a good PvE games as much as anyone else.
IMHO a PvE game needs superior PvE content and very few MMO's have been able to do that. Most resort to fast grinds filled with "kill 10 rats" to keep players distracted then load it up with point & gear collection at the end.
I do wonder about players who knowing join open PvP games then complain about it.
In my years in EVE and Lineage 2 I have never "PKed" anyone. I've only been "PKed" a handful of times in either game. I do engage in PvP at every opportunity. I also feel that PvP does require some sort of structure. That open FFA stuff with looting is just no fun, to me anyway. I think you need to be a larger scope thinker to really understand that. EVE and L2, although they allow open (not FFA) PvP the object of either game is not the small scale PvP (or the PK type style) they are both designed to allow large scale impact on the game world by the players and that is the real meat of either game.
Perminant penalties for committing acts of murder.
Your guild raids another town, your guild and it's members are pillagers and your reputation will remain so forever. You can't go grind some mobs to undo it. You can't change guilds and escape your reputation.
Have situations where if you kill someone in sight of a guard, you become wanted and hated in the city forever. If someone escapes your ganking attempt and reports you to a guard, the same situation occurs, heck perhaps even if your seen by ANY other players they can report you as well(perhaps you get a list and icons appear over witness' heads,) If you can't clean up the situation then your going
Have options to sneak into towns, and avoid guards.
Prisons.
War between countries where perhaps a country could be perminantly destroyed off the server.
Guilds building up a city that grows in size and members, and reputation and eventually becomes a force to reckon with for the other real nations, forming alliances that all share a part in the town. Heck even becoming the capital city in perhaps a entire country. Not just "XXXXXXXX's guild city.
This is the pvp i want.
I don't want random ganking while someones mining just because you get your kicks from it. Killing him for his resources, and then having to kill witness'. Miner's for example find a cave(perhaps they spawn randomly under the ground when excavagating. then a guild sends in a team to mine it quickly, while guards are posted in the cave and around the cave.
It's not realistic to just pk.
Open pvp as you pks want it isn't realistic. I want a REAL game, with REAL consequences, with REAL systems.
I don't want just a half ass pvp system thrown over a pve game where pkers can just get their kicks.
I'll take a PvP game with NO PvE, in the traditional sense of slaying dragons to level up. but rather where the npcs are replacement players
PvP is not needed in every mmo, but i will not play a mmo without pvp.
The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it.
PvP is not needed in every mmo, but i will not play a mmo without pvp.
The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it.
UO had no level system still had griefers/gankers.......
PvP is not needed in every mmo, but i will not play a mmo without pvp.
The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it.
UO had no level system still had griefers/gankers.......
Its not "levels" but the math involved and really there is no way to avoid that if you have any sort of progression system.
"The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it."
Kind of laughed out loud when I saw that. The blame lies TOTALLY on the PKers. No one is FORCING you to grief/gank any other player, that is YOUR choice. And it says a lot about your character, in my opinion anyway.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Yea that post made me lol quite hard, naver got pkedby 5 ppl coming out of nowhere whilke you where just killing a few boars. The attackers can be 5 lvl under you, when there are 5 of them and various classes you f***** anyway
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
I have gone by the name of Slayde in my gaming life
This alone was all I needed to know to figure out what kind of player the OP is "Oooh look at me! I'm a badass because I choose the name of some badass from a cartoon/comic book and I want to prove how badass I am by ganking low level nubs! and if they loose all their stuff, it's their fault!" Seriously can someone possibly be anymore deluded? Not to mention un-original? At least through out this post history he finally shows his true colors and shows that he's nothing more than some pathetic griefer who only wants to pretend that he's making other paying customers life miserable by grief/gank tactics so that he can stroke his e-peen and show what a "badass" he is.
Hey OP, you want to be a badass, a REAL badass? Something that will give you REAL bragging rights? join the army, become a real life assassin or bounty hunter (yes, bounty hunting IS an actual career) instead of wasting your time trying to show us how "badass" you are in a frikkin game, get a frikkin clue! Nobody cares how strong you try to prove yourself to be in a game by griefing and ganking, if anything, it only makes you look pathetic!
Oh, and I forgot to add, your "gaming life"? Are you for real? gaming is a HOBBY, not your life, or a career (to those that say "throughout my gaming career" sorry but unless you're a game programmer, or involved in making games in anyway shape or form, in other words, something OTHER than simply playing the final product in stores, you don't have a "gaming career") OP you seriously need to get out more and mingle with other people, and no, your few emo friends don't count.
"The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it." Kind of laughed out loud when I saw that. The blame lies TOTALLY on the PKers. No one is FORCING you to grief/gank any other player, that is YOUR choice. And it says a lot about your character, in my opinion anyway.
I never played uo so cant say anything about it.....My point is still valid in games where a level 70 can kill a level 10 its the system thats the problem. They can fix it buy not letting you attack someone 10 level difference or a billion other "rules" they can add. (not rules as you get in trouble ,but rules meaning you cant hit them)
Would you let your company rely on the "faith" that children playing a game on the internet will do the right thing?
If they dont want it being done, dont let people do it.......now some games may want people to deal with ganking, I dont know.....
P.S. I don't gank and actually I try to only play fps mmos ( more level playing ground )
PvP is not needed in every mmo, but i will not play a mmo without pvp.
The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it.
Utter nonsense. Pker's and griefers are found in every single multiplayer game under the sun.
There is no level system in Counterstrike but there are still PK'ers and griefers. There are no rewards or benefits from killing other players in Microsoft Flight at all, but there is still that guy on the runway ramming into all the other planes anyway.
It's not the game it's the people you play with.
This is a persistent problem in every multiplayer game and one which all games have attempted to address in some degree; either through player kick functions, ban functions, friendly fire options or gameplay devices such as honour, NPC guards, safe zones, spawn protection and countless others.
You get griefers, gankers and PKer's because wankers exist. Game designs have evolved to counter anti-social people but you can never completely remove them from society.
What you can do, is to make the penalties for behaving in this fashion so high, that they are either excluded from play entirely or are forced to adhere to basic levels of social conduct via game mechanics.
Allow people free reign to behave like jerks to other people, and many of them will. Such is human nature.
Originally posted by MarL Originally posted by Slampig "The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it." Kind of laughed out loud when I saw that. The blame lies TOTALLY on the PKers. No one is FORCING you to grief/gank any other player, that is YOUR choice. And it says a lot about your character, in my opinion anyway.
Its funny cause i have never "ganked" anyone and usually I am the anti "wanna be cool pker" pvper.... I never played uo so cant say anything about it.....My point is still valid in games where a level 70 can kill a level 10 its the system thats the problem. They can fix it buy not letting you attack someone 10 level difference or a billion other "rules" they can add. (not rules as you get in trouble ,but rules meaning you cant hit them)
I don't even want to think of the kind of coding that would be required to implement these rules (not to mention how limiting it would be to gameplay). Besides, isn't consentual Dueling/PvP servers and arenas/battlegrounds/ PvP and RvR zones enough? Seriously man you guys have a lot of options at your disposal, FFA PvP is not needed, let alone wanted (by the majority at least)
Comments
I agree up to the open pk/pvp servers. however not every player who is a pk is what is called a griever. pk are just people who support open pvp with no safezones where anywhere you walk you could be killed. that is what pk want. yes their are some corpse camping pk. but that is a griever.
Also, when a player is branded a pk, they are hunted down! its not like we get any easier ride.
i will also openly admit, i have tried to pk a player in the past and he killed me. good job for him! he was a good player. I learned later that he HUNTED ME DOWN, because i killed his alt.
So what im getting at is i wanna go outside and be scared shitless of people that will kill you when you turn around.
Which is once again accomplished when you have FFA PvP servers and non PvP servers, but I am imagining the PvP servers would be pretty sparesly populated (Trammel anyone?)
great another "every game should have pvp" thread. None of us have ever read a thread like this before! What a brilliant idea!!! Well that's it I now love pvp because the pro pvp crowd completely won me over with their new, never before heard, well articulated arguement!!!
Precisely the reason I stopped playing EVE. No one can access the areas of the most valuable ores without opening themselves up to be ganked by some online cowboy. For myself, I want my MMOs to keep their pvp confined to an arena, or similar area.
To the OP, us carebears, at least most of us, will not go running to some ego-inflated pk'er to take care of a local bully, we'll just stop playing that game.
Finally, to those who enjoy open pk, I have a suggestion: put up or shut up. Here's an option: during the game, you can flag yourself for pvp, meaning you can gank or be ganked at will. While so flagged, if you die, your assassin can take all your possessions. You wanted to add a thrill? There it is.
Calling pvpers greifers/gankers is carebear. If you know the game has pvp then you have no right crying. Just go play something without pvp.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
stupid retarded title - simple mind
too many people fail to recognise the difference between OPINION and FACT - these tiresome morons 'really grind my gears'
like the trillion other threads regarding PK and pvp it boils down to choice and the preferences of THE INDIVIDUAL
some want FFA pvp - most dont
some like GvG or RvR but not FFA
some are happy if they never kill or are killed by another player in their characters lives
want FFAPVP? play a FFAPVP game or a server ruleset with FFAPVP and quit whining in forums about how everything is so f*cking carebear
Conversly calling non-PvPers carebears is adolescent....
It depends on the mmorpg... if its an instanced game like guild wars... obviously pk doesnt apply.. but i agree for general hack n slash mmorpgs. Pk brings the excitement and gives someone a goal to become the highest level / strongest. BUT... its not gonna happen. Most mmorpg players are no-life kids that would CRY to their dying days for getting pked.
Hmm I always thought PK'ers were the no-life kids. Guess you learn something new every day.
I think their should be some sort of activity in every game that has the playerbase competing over somthing, but I don't think every game absolutely needs pvp in order to suceed. Its nice to throw in an arena or dueling for those who do want to pvp though.
FFXI had pvp as an option I believe, however what I really liked was the system where the 3 nations compete for control of territories through pve'ing. I can't recall its exact name I think they called it Conquest, but that was absolutely a brilliant and original idea, and it works great. If your nation fell behind in conquest, then your nation was limited to the outposts availabe and the armor/weapons/drops that their nation could acquire I believe.
My point being, I think some sort of player competition is necessary in an mmo, but I don't think it needs to be pvp in order to be fun.
well said
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
PK is not "needed" in every MMO.
PvP is a playstyle and not everyone likes it. Granted strict PvE games are not very compelling to play for the mostpart but that is the fault of the devs not the players. I enjoy a good PvE games as much as anyone else.
IMHO a PvE game needs superior PvE content and very few MMO's have been able to do that. Most resort to fast grinds filled with "kill 10 rats" to keep players distracted then load it up with point & gear collection at the end.
I do wonder about players who knowing join open PvP games then complain about it.
In my years in EVE and Lineage 2 I have never "PKed" anyone. I've only been "PKed" a handful of times in either game. I do engage in PvP at every opportunity. I also feel that PvP does require some sort of structure. That open FFA stuff with looting is just no fun, to me anyway. I think you need to be a larger scope thinker to really understand that. EVE and L2, although they allow open (not FFA) PvP the object of either game is not the small scale PvP (or the PK type style) they are both designed to allow large scale impact on the game world by the players and that is the real meat of either game.
Pk ing can be fun....and sometimes almost the entire gameplay depending on the game
However many games I have played the pking is bothersome of the other aspects
I have often crusaded as a anti-pker as ironic as killing people to stop killing is
Simply because of the problems that arise from the idea
I'm up for realistic open pvp.
And by that i mean.
Perminant penalties for committing acts of murder.
Your guild raids another town, your guild and it's members are pillagers and your reputation will remain so forever. You can't go grind some mobs to undo it. You can't change guilds and escape your reputation.
Have situations where if you kill someone in sight of a guard, you become wanted and hated in the city forever. If someone escapes your ganking attempt and reports you to a guard, the same situation occurs, heck perhaps even if your seen by ANY other players they can report you as well(perhaps you get a list and icons appear over witness' heads,) If you can't clean up the situation then your going
Have options to sneak into towns, and avoid guards.
Prisons.
War between countries where perhaps a country could be perminantly destroyed off the server.
Guilds building up a city that grows in size and members, and reputation and eventually becomes a force to reckon with for the other real nations, forming alliances that all share a part in the town. Heck even becoming the capital city in perhaps a entire country. Not just "XXXXXXXX's guild city.
This is the pvp i want.
I don't want random ganking while someones mining just because you get your kicks from it. Killing him for his resources, and then having to kill witness'. Miner's for example find a cave(perhaps they spawn randomly under the ground when excavagating. then a guild sends in a team to mine it quickly, while guards are posted in the cave and around the cave.
It's not realistic to just pk.
Open pvp as you pks want it isn't realistic. I want a REAL game, with REAL consequences, with REAL systems.
I don't want just a half ass pvp system thrown over a pve game where pkers can just get their kicks.
I'll take a PvP game with NO PvE, in the traditional sense of slaying dragons to level up. but rather where the npcs are replacement players
PvP is not needed in every mmo, but i will not play a mmo without pvp.
The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
UO had no level system still had griefers/gankers.......
UO had no level system still had griefers/gankers.......
Its not "levels" but the math involved and really there is no way to avoid that if you have any sort of progression system.
there are too many baby care bears out there for PK
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"The main reason there are griefers/gankers is because of the level system. So stop blaming it on pkers, its the system. If the game didnt want you getting killed they would not allow it."
Kind of laughed out loud when I saw that. The blame lies TOTALLY on the PKers. No one is FORCING you to grief/gank any other player, that is YOUR choice. And it says a lot about your character, in my opinion anyway.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Yea that post made me lol quite hard, naver got pkedby 5 ppl coming out of nowhere whilke you where just killing a few boars. The attackers can be 5 lvl under you, when there are 5 of them and various classes you f***** anyway
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
And there are too many no life idiot griefers out there for PK.
See i can stereotype too.
Hey OP, you want to be a badass, a REAL badass? Something that will give you REAL bragging rights? join the army, become a real life assassin or bounty hunter (yes, bounty hunting IS an actual career) instead of wasting your time trying to show us how "badass" you are in a frikkin game, get a frikkin clue! Nobody cares how strong you try to prove yourself to be in a game by griefing and ganking, if anything, it only makes you look pathetic!
Oh, and I forgot to add, your "gaming life"? Are you for real? gaming is a HOBBY, not your life, or a career (to those that say "throughout my gaming career" sorry but unless you're a game programmer, or involved in making games in anyway shape or form, in other words, something OTHER than simply playing the final product in stores, you don't have a "gaming career") OP you seriously need to get out more and mingle with other people, and no, your few emo friends don't count.
I never played uo so cant say anything about it.....My point is still valid in games where a level 70 can kill a level 10 its the system thats the problem. They can fix it buy not letting you attack someone 10 level difference or a billion other "rules" they can add. (not rules as you get in trouble ,but rules meaning you cant hit them)
Would you let your company rely on the "faith" that children playing a game on the internet will do the right thing?
If they dont want it being done, dont let people do it.......now some games may want people to deal with ganking, I dont know.....
P.S. I don't gank and actually I try to only play fps mmos ( more level playing ground )
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
Utter nonsense. Pker's and griefers are found in every single multiplayer game under the sun.
There is no level system in Counterstrike but there are still PK'ers and griefers. There are no rewards or benefits from killing other players in Microsoft Flight at all, but there is still that guy on the runway ramming into all the other planes anyway.
It's not the game it's the people you play with.
This is a persistent problem in every multiplayer game and one which all games have attempted to address in some degree; either through player kick functions, ban functions, friendly fire options or gameplay devices such as honour, NPC guards, safe zones, spawn protection and countless others.
You get griefers, gankers and PKer's because wankers exist. Game designs have evolved to counter anti-social people but you can never completely remove them from society.
What you can do, is to make the penalties for behaving in this fashion so high, that they are either excluded from play entirely or are forced to adhere to basic levels of social conduct via game mechanics.
Allow people free reign to behave like jerks to other people, and many of them will. Such is human nature.
Its funny cause i have never "ganked" anyone and usually I am the anti "wanna be cool pker" pvper....
I never played uo so cant say anything about it.....My point is still valid in games where a level 70 can kill a level 10 its the system thats the problem. They can fix it buy not letting you attack someone 10 level difference or a billion other "rules" they can add. (not rules as you get in trouble ,but rules meaning you cant hit them)
I don't even want to think of the kind of coding that would be required to implement these rules (not to mention how limiting it would be to gameplay). Besides, isn't consentual Dueling/PvP servers and arenas/battlegrounds/ PvP and RvR zones enough? Seriously man you guys have a lot of options at your disposal, FFA PvP is not needed, let alone wanted (by the majority at least)