Who says its good? Certainly not me. I think a more appropriate question is - what makes it so popular? That's the big question. Actually, I think I already know why.
10 Million people and every professional critic. Actually they describe it as excellent or outstanding=) Its popular because its better than good. Quite simple actually.
Are we going to get in to a debate about what popularity represents? Nazism was popular, drug addiction is popular, the spice girls are popular, teenage pregnancy is popular.... WoW was and is a game aimed at the masses, it's that simple. It is aimed at your average teenager, it's not complex, it's not challenging and it's easy to get in to. Tick, tick, tick.
The Beatles and Elvis are popular too and a small minority of people think they suck as well. So your point is what? Loads of people enjoy WOW, vets and new players alike. Got a problem with that...seek help.
My point is certain people are sheep/average joe's and certain people aren't. The latter require a little bit more stimulation than WoW offers.
For example, take vanguard. 1-50 equals for me about 3 months work. In wow i can get to fifty in a month and 70 in three. So in one game you have 50 levels and 3 months. The stimulation rate is 50/3. Now take the other game, 70 levels in 3 months. Stimulation rate is 70/3. 70/3 > 50/3. Do you see now how your logic is flawed mathmatically? Now argueing that vanguard offers more per level is just ignorant considering that crafting an item in vanguard takes about 4 minutes of clicking. This might be stimulation for you but for me stimulation comes in teh form of simple game mechanics leading to complex strategies, not complex game mechanics which act as a burden on gameplay and bottleneck the experience to be monotonous and the same for everyone.
People insist that WOW is the greatest MMO ever? Come on, seriously? Hard to argue with 10 million subscriptions I guess. WoW is, officially, the "greatest" western MMO ever. There are apparently some Asian MMO's that have over 15 million subscribers, but even discounting the Asian market, WoW's subs still stand at nearly 5 million. Other games beat it on individual aspects, but as a finished product WoW has the kind of broad-ranging appeal that's cornered the western market so it's hard to maintain the idea that "it sucks" when you're aware that 5 million people in the US and EU alone are still paying to play it.
Well, I'm half way delirious from working on a project all day today, so last post of the night for me...
Anyway, I'd never try to argue that WOW sucks. It's not my style of MMO, so I'm too bias to make that call.
However, I still think that the sub numbers are more a measure of WOW's mainstream appeal. For instance: say there was a new MMO with every single one of WOW's strong points, except for one...it's designed for hardcore MMO players. Would it be popular. Yes. Would it have any where near the sub numbers of WOW? Not a chance.
The arguement some one might throw out against this is, "yea, so that just proves that WOW is the type of MMO that most players want". Not necessarily. WOW brought in a ridiculous amount of MMO virgins. Once WOW starts fading and all those once new MMO players start moving onto other MMOs, whos to say exactly what type of MMO they'll prefer? Some may indeed jump into the most WOW-like MMO, while others may go for more of a sandbox MMO or decide they'd rather play more of a hardcore MMO. No one really knows.
Who says its good? Certainly not me. I think a more appropriate question is - what makes it so popular? That's the big question. Actually, I think I already know why.
10 Million people and every professional critic. Actually they describe it as excellent or outstanding=) Its popular because its better than good. Quite simple actually.
Are we going to get in to a debate about what popularity represents? Nazism was popular, drug addiction is popular, the spice girls are popular, teenage pregnancy is popular.... WoW was and is a game aimed at the masses, it's that simple. It is aimed at your average teenager, it's not complex, it's not challenging and it's easy to get in to. Tick, tick, tick.
The Beatles and Elvis are popular too and a small minority of people think they suck as well. So your point is what? Loads of people enjoy WOW, vets and new players alike. Got a problem with that...seek help.
I believe his view was that an appeal to popularity is a falicious argument. Which your point still doesn;t refute.
Blizzard made World of Warcraft a lot like a traditional game, making it so that the game can be enjoyed as a single player experience, which makes the game less daunting to begin with. Many quests allow the player and their group into an "instance" of the game world, where they play outside of the virtual world in their own "court". The game doesn't rely on a dynamic world to provide a good gaming experience. The report discusses the elusive 'fun' factor, claiming that it is within the reach of most companies providing they have $25-50 million dollars to spend on development. The largest factor is probably Blizzard's experience and reputation as a quality game developer. The company had one of the best reputations in the online gaming market before WoW was released with their RTS strategy franchise. Blizzard has tailored its marketing of the game specific to the region they are operating in - this has lead to massive success in the USA, China and Europe. For instance, in Europe, Blizzard employs 450 people with 22 different nationalities. http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/08/31/the_best_upcoming_mmorpg/< pretty intresting articel, also showcasing upcoming mmorpg's, ........... still upcoming , tho the articel dated from aug.2006
Your argument is flawed because it can be argued wow actually offers more stimulation at a great rate. In fact i can prove it with numbers.
Aye, Britney Spears has sold nerly 100 milion albums, so she must be awsome! Right?
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
Every time I read one of these threads... Lots of people like WOW? Cool, no problem. Lots of people list WOW as their favorite MMO? Again, cool, no problem. People insist that WOW is the greatest MMO ever? Come on, seriously? If I ever believed that for a second, I would have tried it out by now. The only "great" thing I've heard about WOW is that combat is very smooth and sharp.
How can you state there is only one "great" aspect to a game you have never even tried?
Your argument is flawed because it can be argued wow actually offers more stimulation at a great rate. In fact i can prove it with numbers.
Aye, Britney Spears has sold nerly 100 milion albums, so she must be awsome! Right?
I'm sure some grandmother said the same thing about Elvis when he went crazy too.
I'm sure some mother said the same thing about Michael Jackson when he went crazy too.
Musicians go crazy, what does that have to do with a video game? Despite it being cool to pick on them for being popular and then ramp it up once they crack, it doesn't change how their music entertained the masses prior to their breakdowns does it?
Playing WoW for a few weeks is like eating fast food for a few weeks.
Its great and tasty when you sit down to eat but after a few hours you are trying not to shart yourself. Each day is the same thing, sit, eat, wait, try not to shart until after a few weeks you realize how nasty it is.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Let's face it,aslong as people dont get smarter,they will play WoW.WoW will be popular for another generation,and another if that one doesnt get smarter.
If you are like most people, you will find WOW "fun for awhile" [tm] Now, how long a time period that is varies by user. For some folks, it may be short as a day. For others, the fun hasn't stopped since it first opened 3.5 years ago, and continues to this day.
For most of us, the answer lies in the middle somewhere, and I confess, I enjoyed playing it for quite a while back in the day . (I quit before the BC expansion was released)
But all good things eventually come to an end, and you will probably finding yourself moving onwards.
If you've never tried it I recommend you do, it just might be a great new home for you for several years (or more) to come.
But one caveat, if you prefer sandbox typed games, with more open worlds, less scripted progression, and that the players have significant impact on the game world, then WOW might not be for you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You can say you don't like the game but to say its bad...popular opinion, critics and numbers don't lie and can't be disputed. A subscription service isn't a CD or a movie ticket. Plenty of popular musicians and movies get really lousy reviews. Not WOW. WOW is popular because people play month after month after month. Its popular because every critic thinks its a great MMO. People don't play MMOs they don't enjoy. However, people can watch a movie once and hate it or buy a CD and think it sucks. 10 Million people don't pay $15.99 a month and go, "This sucks!" then play for another month and say, "this sucks", then 2 years later, say "this really sucks".
A MMO sucks when loads of people try it and don't bother subscribing or no one even bothers trying it at all because the reviews are horrible.
You can say you don't like the game but to say its bad...popular opinion, critics and numbers don't lie and can't be disputed. A subscription service isn't a CD or a movie ticket. Plenty of popular musicians and movies get really lousy reviews. Not WOW. WOW is popular because people play month after month after month. Its popular because every critic thinks its a great MMO. People don't play MMOs they don't enjoy. However, people can watch a movie once and hate it or buy a CD and think it sucks. 10 Million people don't pay $15.99 a month and go, "This sucks!" then play for another month and say, "this sucks", then 2 years later, say "this really sucks". A MMO sucks when loads of people try it and don't bother subscribing or no one even bothers trying it at all because the reviews are horrible.
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
You can say you don't like the game but to say its bad...popular opinion, critics and numbers don't lie and can't be disputed. A subscription service isn't a CD or a movie ticket. Plenty of popular musicians and movies get really lousy reviews. Not WOW. WOW is popular because people play month after month after month. Its popular because every critic thinks its a great MMO. People don't play MMOs they don't enjoy. However, people can watch a movie once and hate it or buy a CD and think it sucks. 10 Million people don't pay $15.99 a month and go, "This sucks!" then play for another month and say, "this sucks", then 2 years later, say "this really sucks". A MMO sucks when loads of people try it and don't bother subscribing or no one even bothers trying it at all because the reviews are horrible.
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
I don't think you understand the concept of different people have different taste. Take, for example, the metacritic scores for WOW. Lots of game reviewers think that it is a great game too.
Are you saying all of them have bad taste and YOU are the only one with good taste? Give me a freaking break!
You can say you don't like the game but to say its bad...popular opinion, critics and numbers don't lie and can't be disputed. A subscription service isn't a CD or a movie ticket. Plenty of popular musicians and movies get really lousy reviews. Not WOW. WOW is popular because people play month after month after month. Its popular because every critic thinks its a great MMO. People don't play MMOs they don't enjoy. However, people can watch a movie once and hate it or buy a CD and think it sucks. 10 Million people don't pay $15.99 a month and go, "This sucks!" then play for another month and say, "this sucks", then 2 years later, say "this really sucks". A MMO sucks when loads of people try it and don't bother subscribing or no one even bothers trying it at all because the reviews are horrible.
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
nariusseldon beat me to it, but I think it needs to be in the form of a question.
What makes your taste so much better than everyone else's?
"Wait a minute!! WE decided... MY best interests? How do YOU know what MY best interests are?!!" -Suicidal Tendencies, Institutionalized
It's really not that good, but I've been playing it for a couple months. It works, though, and there's lots of people playing, and it's generally somewhat fun to play.
I played ffxi for a year and a half and WoW isn't really comparable. The community, graphics and immersion for ffxi was far superior. I suspect that's true for a few other mmorps that people invested some time into. But I guess that's the plus of wow, there's little investment. You can get max lvl in a month or two, soloing all or most of the way.
Also, the interface is really easy to get used to. For example, I tried to get my gf into ffxi, but she couldn't get a hang of it really and didn't enjoy it. She has a 24 warlock on wow and likes it alot better.
Basically, it's easy, it works, and there's lots of people playing. I would jump off it in a second if there was a different mmorpg that worked well and had a good amount of people of playing, though.
The best example I have heard of WOW is its the fast food of MMO's, its easily accessible, content is mediocre but satisfying, wide range of menu options and lots of combo meals.
Some people prefer fine dining while others prefer a quick satisfying romp. It depends on the individual taste but ultimately more people choose fast food because of its ease and accessibility. The people who prefer fine foods detest fast food with all their heart and soul... yet many of them have been caught sneaking a bite every now and then. It appeals to our natural inclination to find the path of least resistance to joy and pleasure. We are lazy as a people and WoW is our fast food.
Gom276 Prolific MMO player Just can't say no to any mmo
Basically, it's easy, it works, and there's lots of people playing.
WoW's biggest deception! .. total up the number of subs in your region (2.5m in US, 2m in EU) and divide that by the number of servers (dunno about US but EU has about 240) and you'll see that the average subs per server (8.3k in the EU) is considerably less than some other MMO's (34k on the EVE server atm). WoW may have the most raw subs but on a population density level it's not as competitive as one might imagine.
I would jump off it in a second if there was a different mmorpg that worked well and had a good amount of people of playing, though.
I think that is the large reason why WoW is so dominant right now.
Eventually the market will even out when game producers start setting their standards higher and releasing games in acceptable states. It doesn't matter what the genre or design choices are as long as it runs well and is designed to be fun. IMHO the market is ready for more.
A) Graphics - best art design in any game ever hands down. They did the most with the little to the point their game actually looks better than newer games such as Vanguard, EQ2, and newer games comming out. Say what you will but the majority is against you.
What majority do you speak of? The number of people who don't like the game? It's easy to publish stats on how many subscribe but how do you know how many don't? Perhaps the majority doesn't like the graphics which is why they don't play. 10 million WoW users worldwide is a relatively small number in comparison to the total number of computer owners and computer gamers worldwide. Or did you combine total subscription numbers for ALL other MMOs and compare to WoW?
'Hands Down' is a term used when one wants to get a final word in an argument and avoid any further discussion. Post a poll on MMORPG and see who plays WoW for the art design... I'd be willing to wager it's the least important reason why people play.
Amazing how vocal the WoW-hating minority is, lol. To not like WoW is to show off that one's taste is superior? Puh-leease! WoW is the biggest MMORPG out there for lots of reasons just in case you elitist snobs out there haven't figured it out yet. Take all the rest of the MMORPG's out on the market and their subscription numbers combined still don't stack up against WoW's. But oh, excuse me, the unwashed masses out there don't have opinions that count. I keep forgetting that only the elitist players that play FF or UO and brag about pwning nubz in PvP are allowed to do that.
-- Another post from one of the members of the "unwashed masses" community. --
Comments
10 Million people and every professional critic. Actually they describe it as excellent or outstanding=) Its popular because its better than good. Quite simple actually.
Are we going to get in to a debate about what popularity represents? Nazism was popular, drug addiction is popular, the spice girls are popular, teenage pregnancy is popular.... WoW was and is a game aimed at the masses, it's that simple. It is aimed at your average teenager, it's not complex, it's not challenging and it's easy to get in to. Tick, tick, tick.
The Beatles and Elvis are popular too and a small minority of people think they suck as well. So your point is what? Loads of people enjoy WOW, vets and new players alike. Got a problem with that...seek help.
My point is certain people are sheep/average joe's and certain people aren't. The latter require a little bit more stimulation than WoW offers.For example, take vanguard. 1-50 equals for me about 3 months work. In wow i can get to fifty in a month and 70 in three. So in one game you have 50 levels and 3 months. The stimulation rate is 50/3. Now take the other game, 70 levels in 3 months. Stimulation rate is 70/3. 70/3 > 50/3. Do you see now how your logic is flawed mathmatically? Now argueing that vanguard offers more per level is just ignorant considering that crafting an item in vanguard takes about 4 minutes of clicking. This might be stimulation for you but for me stimulation comes in teh form of simple game mechanics leading to complex strategies, not complex game mechanics which act as a burden on gameplay and bottleneck the experience to be monotonous and the same for everyone.
its obviously not easy enough for you...you stopped playing.
Well, I'm half way delirious from working on a project all day today, so last post of the night for me...
Anyway, I'd never try to argue that WOW sucks. It's not my style of MMO, so I'm too bias to make that call.
However, I still think that the sub numbers are more a measure of WOW's mainstream appeal. For instance: say there was a new MMO with every single one of WOW's strong points, except for one...it's designed for hardcore MMO players. Would it be popular. Yes. Would it have any where near the sub numbers of WOW? Not a chance.
The arguement some one might throw out against this is, "yea, so that just proves that WOW is the type of MMO that most players want". Not necessarily. WOW brought in a ridiculous amount of MMO virgins. Once WOW starts fading and all those once new MMO players start moving onto other MMOs, whos to say exactly what type of MMO they'll prefer? Some may indeed jump into the most WOW-like MMO, while others may go for more of a sandbox MMO or decide they'd rather play more of a hardcore MMO. No one really knows.
10 Million people and every professional critic. Actually they describe it as excellent or outstanding=) Its popular because its better than good. Quite simple actually.
Are we going to get in to a debate about what popularity represents? Nazism was popular, drug addiction is popular, the spice girls are popular, teenage pregnancy is popular.... WoW was and is a game aimed at the masses, it's that simple. It is aimed at your average teenager, it's not complex, it's not challenging and it's easy to get in to. Tick, tick, tick.
The Beatles and Elvis are popular too and a small minority of people think they suck as well. So your point is what? Loads of people enjoy WOW, vets and new players alike. Got a problem with that...seek help.
I believe his view was that an appeal to popularity is a falicious argument. Which your point still doesn;t refute.
what makes WoW so good
Blizzard made World of Warcraft a lot like a traditional game, making it so that the game can be enjoyed as a single player experience, which makes the game less daunting to begin with.Many quests allow the player and their group into an "instance" of the game world, where they play outside of the virtual world in their own "court". The game doesn't rely on a dynamic world to provide a good gaming experience.
The report discusses the elusive 'fun' factor, claiming that it is within the reach of most companies providing they have $25-50 million dollars to spend on development.
The largest factor is probably Blizzard's experience and reputation as a quality game developer. The company had one of the best reputations in the online gaming market before WoW was released with their RTS strategy franchise.
Blizzard has tailored its marketing of the game specific to the region they are operating in - this has lead to massive success in the USA, China and Europe. For instance, in Europe, Blizzard employs 450 people with 22 different nationalities.
http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/08/31/the_best_upcoming_mmorpg/ < pretty intresting articel, also showcasing upcoming mmorpg's, ........... still upcoming
Aye, Britney Spears has sold nerly 100 milion albums, so she must be awsome! Right?
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
How can you state there is only one "great" aspect to a game you have never even tried?
Aye, Britney Spears has sold nerly 100 milion albums, so she must be awsome! Right?
I'm sure some grandmother said the same thing about Elvis when he went crazy too.
I'm sure some mother said the same thing about Michael Jackson when he went crazy too.
Musicians go crazy, what does that have to do with a video game? Despite it being cool to pick on them for being popular and then ramp it up once they crack, it doesn't change how their music entertained the masses prior to their breakdowns does it?
Playing WoW for a few weeks is like eating fast food for a few weeks.
Its great and tasty when you sit down to eat but after a few hours you are trying not to shart yourself. Each day is the same thing, sit, eat, wait, try not to shart until after a few weeks you realize how nasty it is.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
It's not.
======================
It's just me, so open the door.
Not that I really would have ever even considered playing WoW, or have seen anyone playing it.
I spend a lot of time at a WoW Wiki once, though. Nice class design inspirations there.
Let's face it,aslong as people dont get smarter,they will play WoW.WoW will be popular for another generation,and another if that one doesnt get smarter.
If you are like most people, you will find WOW "fun for awhile" [tm] Now, how long a time period that is varies by user. For some folks, it may be short as a day. For others, the fun hasn't stopped since it first opened 3.5 years ago, and continues to this day.
For most of us, the answer lies in the middle somewhere, and I confess, I enjoyed playing it for quite a while back in the day . (I quit before the BC expansion was released)
But all good things eventually come to an end, and you will probably finding yourself moving onwards.
If you've never tried it I recommend you do, it just might be a great new home for you for several years (or more) to come.
But one caveat, if you prefer sandbox typed games, with more open worlds, less scripted progression, and that the players have significant impact on the game world, then WOW might not be for you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aye, Britney Spears has sold nerly 100 milion albums, so she must be awsome! Right?
Wasn't she before the big crash & burn?
You can say you don't like the game but to say its bad...popular opinion, critics and numbers don't lie and can't be disputed. A subscription service isn't a CD or a movie ticket. Plenty of popular musicians and movies get really lousy reviews. Not WOW. WOW is popular because people play month after month after month. Its popular because every critic thinks its a great MMO. People don't play MMOs they don't enjoy. However, people can watch a movie once and hate it or buy a CD and think it sucks. 10 Million people don't pay $15.99 a month and go, "This sucks!" then play for another month and say, "this sucks", then 2 years later, say "this really sucks".
A MMO sucks when loads of people try it and don't bother subscribing or no one even bothers trying it at all because the reviews are horrible.
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
I don't think you understand the concept of different people have different taste. Take, for example, the metacritic scores for WOW. Lots of game reviewers think that it is a great game too.
Are you saying all of them have bad taste and YOU are the only one with good taste? Give me a freaking break!
I still don't think you understand the concept of bad taste.
nariusseldon beat me to it, but I think it needs to be in the form of a question.
What makes your taste so much better than everyone else's?
"Wait a minute!! WE decided... MY best interests? How do YOU know what MY best interests are?!!" -Suicidal Tendencies, Institutionalized
It's really not that good, but I've been playing it for a couple months. It works, though, and there's lots of people playing, and it's generally somewhat fun to play.
I played ffxi for a year and a half and WoW isn't really comparable. The community, graphics and immersion for ffxi was far superior. I suspect that's true for a few other mmorps that people invested some time into. But I guess that's the plus of wow, there's little investment. You can get max lvl in a month or two, soloing all or most of the way.
Also, the interface is really easy to get used to. For example, I tried to get my gf into ffxi, but she couldn't get a hang of it really and didn't enjoy it. She has a 24 warlock on wow and likes it alot better.
Basically, it's easy, it works, and there's lots of people playing. I would jump off it in a second if there was a different mmorpg that worked well and had a good amount of people of playing, though.
The best example I have heard of WOW is its the fast food of MMO's, its easily accessible, content is mediocre but satisfying, wide range of menu options and lots of combo meals.
Some people prefer fine dining while others prefer a quick satisfying romp. It depends on the individual taste but ultimately more people choose fast food because of its ease and accessibility. The people who prefer fine foods detest fast food with all their heart and soul... yet many of them have been caught sneaking a bite every now and then. It appeals to our natural inclination to find the path of least resistance to joy and pleasure. We are lazy as a people and WoW is our fast food.
Gom276
Prolific MMO player
Just can't say no to any mmo
Eventually the market will even out when game producers start setting their standards higher and releasing games in acceptable states. It doesn't matter what the genre or design choices are as long as it runs well and is designed to be fun. IMHO the market is ready for more.
What majority do you speak of? The number of people who don't like the game? It's easy to publish stats on how many subscribe but how do you know how many don't? Perhaps the majority doesn't like the graphics which is why they don't play. 10 million WoW users worldwide is a relatively small number in comparison to the total number of computer owners and computer gamers worldwide. Or did you combine total subscription numbers for ALL other MMOs and compare to WoW?
'Hands Down' is a term used when one wants to get a final word in an argument and avoid any further discussion. Post a poll on MMORPG and see who plays WoW for the art design... I'd be willing to wager it's the least important reason why people play.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
-- Another post from one of the members of the "unwashed masses" community. --