There is nothing wrong with the actual skill stealth. What you need to do is remove the massive crit potential (ala resiliance has in WoW) and the ability to crowd control your opponent (stunlocking in WoW) Stealth without either of those skills is not a problem.
Stealth can be used for numerous tactical reasons that do not have to be massive damage. For instance in the movie 300 when they use the goat path to sneak around and surround the spartans that is similar to stealth. They didn't pop out and do massive damage but they used it to gain a tactical advantage. Same thing could happen in WAR. You can use stealth to move behind the enemies front line of warriors and try and attack the healers and casters in the back.
So if Stealth does make it into WAR it will be just fine. It still could be yanked though just like numerous people mentioned happened to Mage invisibility in WoW during late beta. Also people have to keep in mind that WAR is going to be balanced for Group dynamics. It isn't going to be balanced for 1v1 play since that isn't an aspect of their game. Just like DAoC wasn't balanced for 1v1 play. Some classes may dominate solo (Vamps in DAoC) but get waxed in group play.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I don't understand posts like this - i really just don't get it. You are upset that stealth is going into the game (and they hid it) - what is the problem?! The game IS IN DEVELOPMENT - that translates as nothing being set in stone and you are a fool to think otherwise... Could the lack of info possibly be because they do not know for themselves yet? This whole post and other like it is basically an uproar about the word "stealth"... Shouldn't it be about the fact as to whether or not stealth creates a huge imbalance or ruins the game through constantly having to watch your back? This is something that NO ONE will know until the game is released and people get to level 40 and have their character maxed out and encounter any classes that might have stealth. That said, posts like this are just premature and a bit dumb tbh - wanna make yourself look stupid? Start a topic just like this one.
You miss the point.
What does it MATTER what impact Stealth will have, it's in, and it's probably going to be far more prevalent then we have been lead to believe based on HOW we are learning about it.
That to me says that Stealth isn't just going to show up as a "30 second high energy drain" affair, but will be far more then that. Otherwise they'd have informed us something about what's going down with this. They let the fire go out, they let it subside, it's "just a short term stealth, don't worry" and then in 30-45 days we'll learn it's integral as a gameplay element. to "Balance out ranged DPS" or some crap like that.
Regardless of what form it is or possibly will be, I don't see why you think "they would have informed us about what's going down". Seems much more likely that they will inform us about what they want to in the same manner they have up to this point. Usually about items which they are settled on, have already redone a few times because of feedback and will likely see in game. Which I find refreshingly regular and well detailed. It seems very likely that if stealth is going to be in, then we will hear about in the next couple newsletters.
I don't see any reason why we need to have up to the minute information on the decision making process regarding ANY mechanic of the game, integral or otherwise. I think it is pretty clear that they have been listening to the fans and/or testers up to this point.
Also, why is balancing out ranged dps a bad reason for even a short term stealth mechanic? I don't entirely disagree with you on this point, just interested in hearing alternate method of finding that balance.
Look on most issues, something new they are testing.. no biggie. But don't SHOW IT at a major event and not talk about it. THAT folks i my point, the fact that we know nothing but what's from Paris so far, which is very little. That leads to speculation, it's that what a forum is for? Yes, yes it is.
I have to say I agree with that, simply because we've heard so often that there won't be Stealth in WAR.
After letting a build out in public that clearly has stealth (watch the Paris RvR vid) it would be nice if there was at least some official comment about how they've changed their minds and are looking into (or were looking into) stealth.
Anyone ever thought that since this game is in testing that maybe that the people popping in and out where actually in fact bugs or just some bad code that made the recorder not pick up the person. Even show builds are not the final product. Just throwing that out there.
I'll comment more when appropriate on this issue but for now what I'm willing to say is simply this. The stealth that we had in DAoC or that can be found in WoW and/or other games is not in WAR now and I still have no intention of allowing it into the game. As some people have commented here and in other places, what they have seen is a system that allows for two of the lightly armored classes to close quickly with a target. There will be no combination of stealth + long-range damage dealing in the game. Two quick FYIs for ya. Some of the leaks regarding stealth have been, quite frankly, BS. During our last phase of testing there were some bugs in the implementation ("Gee, really Mr. Wizard, you had bugs in a Beta Test? I'm surprised!") of the classes closing/survival ability. Second, as our beta testers know, I have said that I will take out any system or sub-system that I believe is a net negative in terms of RvR enjoyment. And this is one of those sub-systems that would certainly be looked at amazingly carefully before we committed to it. One of the best parts of beta is the ability to iterate on existing systems as well to try other systems to see what works and what doesn't work.
The FYIs are the big reason I don't want to go into any more depth regarding what we are doing with this system. It is subject to change based on what I see over the next few weeks. Considering that we are about to begin a couple of major RvR test cycles, nobody should get worked up about what we have, don't have, might have regarding this issue, it's truly pointless.
Quit flipping out over the littlest crap and you'll live longer, seriously. It's beta, it's not stealth as you know it, and no info has been even released in any real fashion other than what's been quoted already from Jacobs on the VN boards and he's commented on it at Warhammer Alliance.
Take a breath, stop freaking out and wait till there's actual info. Then you can freak all you like.
uhm guys, you don't show "possibly gonna be removed testing it out abilities" to major press events like Paris.
That's my point here.
More than likely they are running a beta build which means IT"S A BETA BUILD NOT A RELEASE BUILD.People like you are the reason they don't want an official forum because you assume but don't know and proceed to cry and get angry about it instead of waiting for Mythic to say hey we are keeping stealth in or no it won't make it in the game.
As Im in beta I cant confirm or deny anything, but lets talk hypothetically for a sec. Its beta, things come and go, things are tried and canceled. Just because you saw something doesnt mean its in its final form, its going in, or is set in stone. During this beta things have been added, removed, tweaked, and then completely revamped, stealth in war could be the same way.
QFT
It's pointless to be screaming bloody murder over something that just recently appeared in beta.
I mean we can comment if it is good or bad, whether we'd like to see it in the game or not but taking it for granted as an evidence that the roof is on fire is going a bit too far...
The purpose of a beta is for the devs and players to see how things are working out. Features come and go, and especially those like this stealth which is actually very easy to implement. I'm sure that if Mythic finds some other solution to ranged classes being overpowered they'll most certainly implement it rather than stealth since that would mean they'd be breaking their own word.
I wouldn't worry too much. I'm almost certain they'll put some additional skills enabling melee DPSs to close the distance very quickly... or just remove the frigging neon character names thus enabling all classes to have some natural stealth if they're skillful enough.
Those that hate the old stealth of other games... do you think you are the only ones? Do you think your experience is so elite and exclusive that if you don't speak up, no one else in beta will?
The vast majority of gamers know that stealth in other games had huge issues. People in beta will speak up if they see a system in place that brings back those same problems. The system has probably already been changed since its initial implementation based on tester feedback. It may change again. Or it may be removed completely if it ends up having those huge issues.
So take a deep breath, and know that if you don't want stealth to be game breaking like other games, then you probably have everyone in beta on your side, including the devs. Let them experiment and try out some ideas - theres no better time to do that than in beta.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
They have already stated that the stealth element may or may not remain in release - they are trying it out seeing how it works out, depending on feedback it will either go or be altered.
At very most it will be a minimal stealthy option with limited effects, a lengthy timer, you wont be able to attack strongly while stealthed as being stealthed eats up 'energy'.
Its all DOOM DOOM! I say...DoOoOoOom...honestly...talk about turning a mole hill into a mountain before we even know what and how things work.
I'm an avid hater of stealth ganking techinques of poorly implimented stealth but even I can see the validity of use if done PROPERLY. I"m just hoping if that if they do keep it..its well implemented..i really hate gank stealthers. Its not game breaking for me though....so I'm content to just let it ride for now.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I hardly find my stance as mindless seeing as I refuse to form an opinion either way until I know what the mechanic is instead of spelling Ultimate Doom and Gloom over an undescribed mechanic we see in a video from Paris where the player obviously has some stupidity issues constantly going after a Tank instead of a caster and thus ending up dead most of the time.
I think the fact I hate stealth and have previously stated that I am disappointed to hear about it pretty much proves my stance to fair critisism but alot of people go out of their way to spell utlimate doom without all the facts. If I avoided games merely on the stance of beta changes & tests I'd find myself without a game to play. Dev's change crap all the time..its the nature of the beast.
Tell me is the sky falling chicken little?
Btw thanks for the mindless retarded flame that shows your maturity.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I'm sorry, but unless you've spent several years following the Darkfall forums, you have no clue how bad developer-feedback can be. (Personally, I believe the Darkfall forums are serving as someone's Ph.D. thesis on how much abuse people will take online, and still keep coming back for more.) Remember, Mythic has a LOT of stuff on their plate right now, and addressing every controversy about videos, etc. has to have a low priority. The truth will be known in time. I would just relax until you hear something official.
re the Darkfall phd thesis... you know, you may not be too far off base with this idea...
Anyone ever thought that since this game is in testing that maybe that the people popping in and out where actually in fact bugs or just some bad code that made the recorder not pick up the person. Even show builds are not the final product. Just throwing that out there.
This is not a bug. There are numerous recent videos from Paris showing some form of Stealth mechanic.
On the plus note, this would indicate WAR's version of stealth is clearly restricting stealth in some fashion.
My great worry isn't PvP balance but PvE balance. Steath traditionally exploited NPC bosses and leads to other players sitting around being bored while the stealthers waste the group's time.
The only stealth that ever worked in PvE was City of Heroes/Villains that had group stealth so everyone could stick together, rather than forcing to separate the group.
Originally posted by Grunties
Those that hate the old stealth of other games... do you think you are the only ones? Do you think your experience is so elite and exclusive that if you don't speak up, no one else in beta will?
I do not believe it is necesaary to insult people when they are expressing their opinions. You shouldn't dismiss opinions with the excuse that someone else has already said it esp. when you're only assuming that someone has said it. There are those who deeply enjoy steatlh, we don't know which opinions are being represented in the beta. We can only hope that Mythic is getting a wide range of viewpoints.
I'd be interested if the beta-testers ever tried a entire group of stealthed characters. Even with limited abilities 5-6 characters hitting one person at the same time would likely result in a one-shot.
The difference being that in balanced PvP, you and your allies would SEE 5-6 players heading toward you.
Originally posted by AlienovrlordOriginally posted by Grunties
Those that hate the old stealth of other games... do you think you are the only ones? Do you think your experience is so elite and exclusive that if you don't speak up, no one else in beta will?
I do not believe it is necesaary to insult people when they are expressing their opinions. You shouldn't dismiss opinions with the excuse that someone else has already said it esp. when you're only assuming that someone has said it. There are those who deeply enjoy steatlh, we don't know which opinions are being represented in the beta. We can only hope that Mythic is getting a wide range of viewpoints.
I don't think I was being particularly insulting, especially considering the original post was very much a doom and gloom post and very accusatory. Not to mention, the sense of entitlement was a little thick - a system that is in the experimental phase where the details (or even its existence) arent yet determined, and someone not in beta demanding that they know all about it immediately. And if they don't... then they must be hiding a game breaking system. Has it even been released how long ago stealth was added to beta? It could have only been a few weeks ago for all we know. Personally I'm happy they have released the information of its existance this long before release at all, or this long before they have the details nailed down - some game companies out there have plans on not releasing any real details about their systems until they have your payment information.
I do not dismiss the opinion because I believe someone has already said it. I dismiss it because I find it over the top and irrational based on what we know and what phase we are in. That is my opinion, and I hope you can respect it as you seem to respect those of the OP.
We do agree that a wide range of represented viewpoints is a good thing on getting a system that all (or most) can be happy with. Though I have a feeling that the loud wild extremists on both edges who either refuse to play a game with any kind of stealth whatsoever, or who refuse to play a game without complete unlimited stealth, will end up being sacrificed in favor of the balanced middle road people.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Originally posted by Grunties I do not dismiss the opinion because I believe someone has already said it. I dismiss it because I find it over the top and irrational based on what we know and what phase we are in. That is my opinion, and I hope you can respect it as you seem to respect those of the OP. We do agree that a wide range of represented viewpoints is a good thing on getting a system that all (or most) can be happy with. Though I have a feeling that the loud wild extremists on both edges who either refuse to play a game with any kind of stealth whatsoever, or who refuse to play a game without complete unlimited stealth, will end up being sacrificed in favor of the balanced middle road people.
It was not clear in your post that you were directing the comments at the OP since you used the term 'gents' implying more than one person. The way your post read it sounded like you were directing it at everyone who took a stand against stealth. If that what not your intent then we just have a misunderstanding.
I do agree that extremist views are not helpful, but the OP seemed to be reacting more to the surprise of seeing the stealth mechanic. It was a little much for the OP to accuse Mythic of hiding information since they've been hiding information about Crafting for a long while, but at least with Crafting were openly hiding it. The revelation of a stealth mechanic in WAR really did blind-side everyone.
We've gotten an official comment from MBJ on the IGN Forum that was linked in another thread. I just think those comments would have been nice as preparation before they released the Paris game build, rather than in reaction to the community afterward.
They did that with male-only Chosen, letting it out through a podcast rather than letting players discover it by playing demos. It caused a ruckus but less than if player's had discovered it on their own.
....waiting to see what happens before I damn them to the depths of hell.
Good...good...I look forward to Doom Cat being on my side...I sense great power there. Muhahahaha!
On topic:
Something as controversial as stealth ambush attacks should of been brought to your attention even if it is only in beta. There are too many folks who don't want it in WAR and you can't tell me Mythic is unaware of them and how they feel about it. At least broach the topic offically so you can all have your say about it and they can address your fears.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
It is no secret how much stealth classes are despised by PVE and PVP players a like in the MMORPG world. I do not mind stealth classes but for most people it is a HUGE turn off.
For PVE players stealth classes either excell in PVE to the point they are overpowered or are very underwhelming due to their PVP prowess. And in PVP the stealth classes usually are desinged as either all or nothing types of classes.
The only stealth that ever worked in PvE was City of Heroes/Villains that had group stealth so everyone could stick together, rather than forcing to separate the group.
Ok, so you're saying stealth hasn't worked in LOTRO, EQ2, WOW, EQ, UO, DAoC, DDO, EVE, or Vanguard? You guys are putting yourself in a panic for no reason.
....waiting to see what happens before I damn them to the depths of hell.
Good...good...I look forward to Doom Cat being on my side...I sense great power there. Muhahahaha!
On topic:
Something as controversial as stealth ambush attacks should of been brought to your attention even if it is only in beta. There are too many folks who don't want it in WAR and you can't tell me Mythic is unaware of them and how they feel about it. At least broach the topic offically so you can all have your say about it and they can address your fears.
They have approached it officially ... vmoped posted a statement by mark jacobs on it. It has wholey satisifed me for now. Honestly as long as we dont' get over powered DAoC / WoW stealth I'm happy. I always found WoW's exploit easy stealth as a complete piss off dueling / pvp wise. DAoC I hear got it worse with sniper stealth rofl.
I still can't wait for WAR...*wants it* hehe
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
So, this is what irks me -- so many posters on this site want to see mmo's evolve, to do new things. When it does happen, it's not happening fast enough or they just don't like the "idea". Give it a rest, informaiton will be out in the open when the game is released, for better or for worse. Furthermore, it's not your game, but the lead designer of EA Mythic -- s/he will make those final decisions on how to realize the vision of Warhammer online.
Comments
There is nothing wrong with the actual skill stealth. What you need to do is remove the massive crit potential (ala resiliance has in WoW) and the ability to crowd control your opponent (stunlocking in WoW) Stealth without either of those skills is not a problem.
Stealth can be used for numerous tactical reasons that do not have to be massive damage. For instance in the movie 300 when they use the goat path to sneak around and surround the spartans that is similar to stealth. They didn't pop out and do massive damage but they used it to gain a tactical advantage. Same thing could happen in WAR. You can use stealth to move behind the enemies front line of warriors and try and attack the healers and casters in the back.
So if Stealth does make it into WAR it will be just fine. It still could be yanked though just like numerous people mentioned happened to Mage invisibility in WoW during late beta. Also people have to keep in mind that WAR is going to be balanced for Group dynamics. It isn't going to be balanced for 1v1 play since that isn't an aspect of their game. Just like DAoC wasn't balanced for 1v1 play. Some classes may dominate solo (Vamps in DAoC) but get waxed in group play.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You miss the point.What does it MATTER what impact Stealth will have, it's in, and it's probably going to be far more prevalent then we have been lead to believe based on HOW we are learning about it.
<modedit>
Always change your signature.
That to me says that Stealth isn't just going to show up as a "30 second high energy drain" affair, but will be far more then that. Otherwise they'd have informed us something about what's going down with this. They let the fire go out, they let it subside, it's "just a short term stealth, don't worry" and then in 30-45 days we'll learn it's integral as a gameplay element. to "Balance out ranged DPS" or some crap like that.
Regardless of what form it is or possibly will be, I don't see why you think "they would have informed us about what's going down". Seems much more likely that they will inform us about what they want to in the same manner they have up to this point. Usually about items which they are settled on, have already redone a few times because of feedback and will likely see in game. Which I find refreshingly regular and well detailed. It seems very likely that if stealth is going to be in, then we will hear about in the next couple newsletters.
I don't see any reason why we need to have up to the minute information on the decision making process regarding ANY mechanic of the game, integral or otherwise. I think it is pretty clear that they have been listening to the fans and/or testers up to this point.
Also, why is balancing out ranged dps a bad reason for even a short term stealth mechanic? I don't entirely disagree with you on this point, just interested in hearing alternate method of finding that balance.
edit note- there will be a dev chat at stratics so maybe the question will be answered in some form tomorrow http://war.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=27109
I have to say I agree with that, simply because we've heard so often that there won't be Stealth in WAR.
After letting a build out in public that clearly has stealth (watch the Paris RvR vid) it would be nice if there was at least some official comment about how they've changed their minds and are looking into (or were looking into) stealth.
Anyone ever thought that since this game is in testing that maybe that the people popping in and out where actually in fact bugs or just some bad code that made the recorder not pick up the person. Even show builds are not the final product. Just throwing that out there.
First and Foremost Chaos Reigns!
For those wanting an official response:
MJ
"Folks,
I'll comment more when appropriate on this issue but for now what I'm willing to say is simply this. The stealth that we had in DAoC or that can be found in WoW and/or other games is not in WAR now and I still have no intention of allowing it into the game. As some people have commented here and in other places, what they have seen is a system that allows for two of the lightly armored classes to close quickly with a target. There will be no combination of stealth + long-range damage dealing in the game. Two quick FYIs for ya. Some of the leaks regarding stealth have been, quite frankly, BS. During our last phase of testing there were some bugs in the implementation ("Gee, really Mr. Wizard, you had bugs in a Beta Test? I'm surprised!") of the classes closing/survival ability. Second, as our beta testers know, I have said that I will take out any system or sub-system that I believe is a net negative in terms of RvR enjoyment. And this is one of those sub-systems that would certainly be looked at amazingly carefully before we committed to it. One of the best parts of beta is the ability to iterate on existing systems as well to try other systems to see what works and what doesn't work.
The FYIs are the big reason I don't want to go into any more depth regarding what we are doing with this system. It is subject to change based on what I see over the next few weeks. Considering that we are about to begin a couple of major RvR test cycles, nobody should get worked up about what we have, don't have, might have regarding this issue, it's truly pointless.
Mark"
http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/106916883/p1
All the official respond amounts to is: everything is still possible, and nothing is final. No point coming up in arms or protests.
off topic but this thread got me thinking about wes craven so I watched a Nightmare on Elm Street.
going to bed now, night.
Quit flipping out over the littlest crap and you'll live longer, seriously.
It's beta, it's not stealth as you know it, and no info has been even released in any real fashion other than what's been quoted already from Jacobs on the VN boards and he's commented on it at Warhammer Alliance.
Take a breath, stop freaking out and wait till there's actual info. Then you can freak all you like.
More than likely they are running a beta build which means IT"S A BETA BUILD NOT A RELEASE BUILD.People like you are the reason they don't want an official forum because you assume but don't know and proceed to cry and get angry about it instead of waiting for Mythic to say hey we are keeping stealth in or no it won't make it in the game.
QFT
It's pointless to be screaming bloody murder over something that just recently appeared in beta.
I mean we can comment if it is good or bad, whether we'd like to see it in the game or not but taking it for granted as an evidence that the roof is on fire is going a bit too far...
The purpose of a beta is for the devs and players to see how things are working out. Features come and go, and especially those like this stealth which is actually very easy to implement. I'm sure that if Mythic finds some other solution to ranged classes being overpowered they'll most certainly implement it rather than stealth since that would mean they'd be breaking their own word.
I wouldn't worry too much. I'm almost certain they'll put some additional skills enabling melee DPSs to close the distance very quickly... or just remove the frigging neon character names thus enabling all classes to have some natural stealth if they're skillful enough.
Give the beta testers a little more credit gents.
Those that hate the old stealth of other games... do you think you are the only ones? Do you think your experience is so elite and exclusive that if you don't speak up, no one else in beta will?
The vast majority of gamers know that stealth in other games had huge issues. People in beta will speak up if they see a system in place that brings back those same problems. The system has probably already been changed since its initial implementation based on tester feedback. It may change again. Or it may be removed completely if it ends up having those huge issues.
So take a deep breath, and know that if you don't want stealth to be game breaking like other games, then you probably have everyone in beta on your side, including the devs. Let them experiment and try out some ideas - theres no better time to do that than in beta.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
They have already stated that the stealth element may or may not remain in release - they are trying it out seeing how it works out, depending on feedback it will either go or be altered.
At very most it will be a minimal stealthy option with limited effects, a lengthy timer, you wont be able to attack strongly while stealthed as being stealthed eats up 'energy'.
There will be no one hit kills while stealthed.
So lets wait and see before judging.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Its all DOOM DOOM! I say...DoOoOoOom...honestly...talk about turning a mole hill into a mountain before we even know what and how things work.
I'm an avid hater of stealth ganking techinques of poorly implimented stealth but even I can see the validity of use if done PROPERLY. I"m just hoping if that if they do keep it..its well implemented..i really hate gank stealthers. Its not game breaking for me though....so I'm content to just let it ride for now.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I hardly find my stance as mindless seeing as I refuse to form an opinion either way until I know what the mechanic is instead of spelling Ultimate Doom and Gloom over an undescribed mechanic we see in a video from Paris where the player obviously has some stupidity issues constantly going after a Tank instead of a caster and thus ending up dead most of the time.
I think the fact I hate stealth and have previously stated that I am disappointed to hear about it pretty much proves my stance to fair critisism but alot of people go out of their way to spell utlimate doom without all the facts. If I avoided games merely on the stance of beta changes & tests I'd find myself without a game to play. Dev's change crap all the time..its the nature of the beast.
Tell me is the sky falling chicken little?
Btw thanks for the mindless retarded flame that shows your maturity.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
This is not a bug. There are numerous recent videos from Paris showing some form of Stealth mechanic.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R-_WU46h-wg 1:30 we see 'Cannot use the ability while stealthed" You can google more videos.
On the plus note, this would indicate WAR's version of stealth is clearly restricting stealth in some fashion.
My great worry isn't PvP balance but PvE balance. Steath traditionally exploited NPC bosses and leads to other players sitting around being bored while the stealthers waste the group's time.
The only stealth that ever worked in PvE was City of Heroes/Villains that had group stealth so everyone could stick together, rather than forcing to separate the group.
I do not believe it is necesaary to insult people when they are expressing their opinions. You shouldn't dismiss opinions with the excuse that someone else has already said it esp. when you're only assuming that someone has said it. There are those who deeply enjoy steatlh, we don't know which opinions are being represented in the beta. We can only hope that Mythic is getting a wide range of viewpoints.
I'd be interested if the beta-testers ever tried a entire group of stealthed characters. Even with limited abilities 5-6 characters hitting one person at the same time would likely result in a one-shot.
The difference being that in balanced PvP, you and your allies would SEE 5-6 players heading toward you.
I do not believe it is necesaary to insult people when they are expressing their opinions. You shouldn't dismiss opinions with the excuse that someone else has already said it esp. when you're only assuming that someone has said it. There are those who deeply enjoy steatlh, we don't know which opinions are being represented in the beta. We can only hope that Mythic is getting a wide range of viewpoints.
I don't think I was being particularly insulting, especially considering the original post was very much a doom and gloom post and very accusatory. Not to mention, the sense of entitlement was a little thick - a system that is in the experimental phase where the details (or even its existence) arent yet determined, and someone not in beta demanding that they know all about it immediately. And if they don't... then they must be hiding a game breaking system. Has it even been released how long ago stealth was added to beta? It could have only been a few weeks ago for all we know. Personally I'm happy they have released the information of its existance this long before release at all, or this long before they have the details nailed down - some game companies out there have plans on not releasing any real details about their systems until they have your payment information.
I do not dismiss the opinion because I believe someone has already said it. I dismiss it because I find it over the top and irrational based on what we know and what phase we are in. That is my opinion, and I hope you can respect it as you seem to respect those of the OP.
We do agree that a wide range of represented viewpoints is a good thing on getting a system that all (or most) can be happy with. Though I have a feeling that the loud wild extremists on both edges who either refuse to play a game with any kind of stealth whatsoever, or who refuse to play a game without complete unlimited stealth, will end up being sacrificed in favor of the balanced middle road people.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
It was not clear in your post that you were directing the comments at the OP since you used the term 'gents' implying more than one person. The way your post read it sounded like you were directing it at everyone who took a stand against stealth. If that what not your intent then we just have a misunderstanding.
I do agree that extremist views are not helpful, but the OP seemed to be reacting more to the surprise of seeing the stealth mechanic. It was a little much for the OP to accuse Mythic of hiding information since they've been hiding information about Crafting for a long while, but at least with Crafting were openly hiding it. The revelation of a stealth mechanic in WAR really did blind-side everyone.
We've gotten an official comment from MBJ on the IGN Forum that was linked in another thread. I just think those comments would have been nice as preparation before they released the Paris game build, rather than in reaction to the community afterward.
They did that with male-only Chosen, letting it out through a podcast rather than letting players discover it by playing demos. It caused a ruckus but less than if player's had discovered it on their own.
On topic:
Something as controversial as stealth ambush attacks should of been brought to your attention even if it is only in beta. There are too many folks who don't want it in WAR and you can't tell me Mythic is unaware of them and how they feel about it. At least broach the topic offically so you can all have your say about it and they can address your fears.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Yes Mythic was being craven.
It is no secret how much stealth classes are despised by PVE and PVP players a like in the MMORPG world. I do not mind stealth classes but for most people it is a HUGE turn off.
For PVE players stealth classes either excell in PVE to the point they are overpowered or are very underwhelming due to their PVP prowess. And in PVP the stealth classes usually are desinged as either all or nothing types of classes.
Ok, so you're saying stealth hasn't worked in LOTRO, EQ2, WOW, EQ, UO, DAoC, DDO, EVE, or Vanguard? You guys are putting yourself in a panic for no reason.
Good...good...I look forward to Doom Cat being on my side...I sense great power there. Muhahahaha!On topic:
Something as controversial as stealth ambush attacks should of been brought to your attention even if it is only in beta. There are too many folks who don't want it in WAR and you can't tell me Mythic is unaware of them and how they feel about it. At least broach the topic offically so you can all have your say about it and they can address your fears.
They have approached it officially ... vmoped posted a statement by mark jacobs on it. It has wholey satisifed me for now. Honestly as long as we dont' get over powered DAoC / WoW stealth I'm happy. I always found WoW's exploit easy stealth as a complete piss off dueling / pvp wise. DAoC I hear got it worse with sniper stealth rofl.
I still can't wait for WAR...*wants it* hehe
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
It's nice that they have, and I will admit, there IS teh chance this is overblown, and Mythic will do what none have done before...
But I'll believe it when I see it.
Always change your signature.
So, this is what irks me -- so many posters on this site want to see mmo's evolve, to do new things. When it does happen, it's not happening fast enough or they just don't like the "idea". Give it a rest, informaiton will be out in the open when the game is released, for better or for worse. Furthermore, it's not your game, but the lead designer of EA Mythic -- s/he will make those final decisions on how to realize the vision of Warhammer online.
/grump off