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I will no longer pay for a game client...
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Even with all my 'issues', I'd still say I'm better off in options than you simply because I live in a city and have 'city' options.
Small towns and 'country' villages just don't no matter how much you want them to.
I can still work because I live in a city. If I lived where you do, I would have zero employment options.
Some people tend to forget that economics are VERY different in different parts of this country. My cousin lives in kentucky and she has a hard time as a nurse with a husband and kid.
And don't forget that mr. douche got his job likely from selective service points and not from skills.. government jobs always give bonus points for service over even a better qualified 'civilian'.
How do I know? I took a postal service test and scored a 98 but after factoring in servicemen, I was 268 down on the list to be hired.
If service credits weren't given, I'd have been #3 to be hired. Service credits are nothing more than affirmative action, something mr. douche is probably against as well.
Neonaka Your my Hero
Glad someone on theze damn Boars thinks the way I do.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
OK, here is the deal. Game companys do not want to make games that you will like, they want to make games to make themselves money.
Big game corps are not going to wave the box fee or the monthly fee because you think it is too much or because you may not like their game. Nor do they have to have a free trial at the beginning to see if we like the game before we buy it. Would that be nice, sure it would, but it isnt something that they have to do.
And here is the most important thing, Game companies are making ALOT of money so why would they want to change the way they do things. For every person who says that they will not pay 50 dollars to try out a game to see if they like it there are hundreds to thousands of others that will.
There are other options. Play F2P games, they look like they are getting a bit better. Or wait a month or two after release to see what player reviews are. If reviews are good and you feel like taking a chance then do it, if they are poor then dont. Or suck it up and pay the 50 bucks and if you dont like it then those are the breaks.
I have Horizons in my desk drawer that i didnt make past the free month. I have WoW in my desk drawer that i didnt make past a couple months. I have DAOC in my drawer that i really liked but not as much as i liked EQ so that didnt get played much. I pre ordered EQ2 because i loved EQ so much the next one should be even better, i was quite wrong. Do i wish i would not have spent the money on these games, sure, but it was my choice to do so.
Though i think Neonaka went a bit far with his posts i have to agree with his base idea. Video games are an extra thing, just like going to the movies or out to dinner. If the money spent on these things is going to really affect the way that you live then you should not be spending the money on these things. Now im not going to tell you how you should or should not spend your money, that is your deal. But i will tell you that game companies dont really care if you can afford their game or not, plenty will buy it so they really dont need your money.
If you want to play the big MMOs coming out you can either wait for the reviews or toss the dice. You wont be trying them for free anytime soon. While most games do offer a free trial most dont in the first few months of the game.
And how can you possibly get angry about a EULA?? They actually tell you before you buy a game (as long as you read the box) that they can change said game whenever they want to without prior notice. Now if they didnt tell you that then you can get angry about it. They are certainly not going to say that they WILL change the game because they dont know that yet.
If i bought a used car from a dealership and the guy told me that 5 miles from the dealership it was going to break down, i bought it anyway, and 5 miles from the dealership it broke down, how can i get mad about that? Now if he doesnt tell me, that is a different story.
Wow, some of you guys put my views around alot clearer than I can ever hope to do. Kudos to you. English is my second language after all, and one that I dont use very often.
But all political and personal views aside, crap games are almost a rule nowadays. Recently bought a game bundle from steam. Over half of the games on that package where utter shit. Made the original ET atari videogame(look it up. I think AVGN hated on it) look like pure perfection. But the bundle was cheap so meh. To be honest, some games on my shelf dont even deserve to be bought. They are that shitty. But I wasnt a critical buyer back when I bought them. I am today, allthough I sometimes go for those bundle packages offered from steam/direct2drive/EA(yes, they got a few good ones) etc. When I come to think about it, I share the gameview of the AVGN/Yathzee(Zero Punctation) and the somethingawful.com crew. Most games aint worth the time to play them, and especially not to buy them.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
And how can you possibly get angry about a EULA?? They actually tell you before you buy a game (as long as you read the box) that they can change said game whenever they want to without prior notice. Now if they didnt tell you that then you can get angry about it. They are certainly not going to say that they WILL change the game because they dont know that yet.
If i bought a used car from a dealership and the guy told me that 5 miles from the dealership it was going to break down, i bought it anyway, and 5 miles from the dealership it broke down, how can i get mad about that? Now if he doesnt tell me, that is a different story.
I could be wrong but isn't the EULA on the inside of the retail box?
Yeah, back to topic I guess, some people in the U.S. think like me and others have their thoughts. Nothing can be done about it really.
I can appreciate everyone's views on American society. It isn't going to stop me from having issues with people who refuse to work and walk the streets. Like I said before I have never meet a human soul, (that wasn't mentally handicapped) that couldn't change their life for the better.
I hail from New Orleans, and not only there but many rural areas of LA. That city itself is very dirt poor with just as many slums as New York city. So I have seen the poor city aspect. I left New Orleans for a town in central LA called Columbia. Which is dirt poor and very country. In my military travels I have been to Chicago, IL, Georgia, Texas, Arizona, Maryland, and many countries overseas. I have met and spoke to people from every walk of life. Some born dirt poor some born into money. Even still have never met a human soul that couldn't get out of a mess if only they put their mind to it. Some need a push in the right direction, many others just refuse to look for any help, because they are perfectly content on doing nothing. 90% of every active duty enlisted military member, excluding officers ( and even some of those came in for this reason ) signed the dotted line to get out of a slum, to get 2 checks a month and some food and rent money, or get the college education for a better life. You will VERY rarely hear one say, "Oh I joined to shoot people for my country". They joined risking their life just so they do not have to be one of these homeless you cry for. It is the reason I joined. It was either join up or be a deadbeat, in some shitty ass rural hick town in LA.
I made it, and so did a lot of others I know, we didn't take handout's we took the options before us and toughed out some very rough times just for the shot at a better life. You ever spent 12 months floating on a hot ass navy ship in the middle of the gulf just for a paycheck? Not getting to see your newborn or your wife for a year just for the hopes that one day you can provide a better life for them? Probably not.
People like me are on every navy ship America owns. Most of them are there for the exact reason I went in. The majority have the same outlook on American society as I do. We kill ourselves for our homeless so they can do nothing to better their life. We kill ourself so all these people can sit around and collect welfare checks while they sit on their ass and play wow, eq, daoc... whatever and then spit in our face because we have to do this job to survive.
Yeah I am a little bitter towards the American public, and No my sympathy level, tho I have one is very very low. I understand some just cannot help it. My view is however. If you can walk, if you can talk, if you can move your arms and hands. You need to be working and not whining.
If you make $2.00 an hour matters not to me as long as your working for it and paying the same taxes I am at the end of the day.
That's all.
I see. You're saying you don't mind paying for the client only to find out the game is crap. Your $50 goes to help pay for the development of game you aren't going to continue playing past the 30 days that came with the client purchase. Brilliant, just brilliant.
That can happen with an xbox or ps3 game too, sonic. Point?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
And how can you possibly get angry about a EULA?? They actually tell you before you buy a game (as long as you read the box) that they can change said game whenever they want to without prior notice. Now if they didnt tell you that then you can get angry about it. They are certainly not going to say that they WILL change the game because they dont know that yet.
If i bought a used car from a dealership and the guy told me that 5 miles from the dealership it was going to break down, i bought it anyway, and 5 miles from the dealership it broke down, how can i get mad about that? Now if he doesnt tell me, that is a different story.
I think the point is that no dealership would or could sell cars that break down after five miles. Nobody would ever buy a car that cannot even get off the lot. Just like no MMO publisher would or could sell games that they can give you whatever they feel like giving you at a moment's notice. Nobody would ever buy "developer prerogatives" and vague assurances. They buy games with certain features; features that they find agreeable.Whether or not players should get angry when live teams abuse their prerogatives doesn't get to the heart of the matter: that players are angry, and do get angry. And this doesn't help the industry in the long run, since many players (myself included) will simply conclude that MMOs are too complicated to buy and enjoy, and turn to other forms of computer entertainment that can guarantee us an experience.
Right now, WoW is the MMO industry. When people leave WoW, where are they going to go? To titles from publishing houses filled with scams, unrestrained live teams, wholesale redesigns, and bugs? Why not just purchase a peer-to-peer multiplayer game that gives you all the fun of playing online without all of the developer created baggage that comes from an MMO?
We seem to forget that this industry needs players far more than the players need this industry. We don't need the "massive" format to get the features these games are offering (like fast-action combat, levels, ladders, loots, and multiplayer PvP), and can get these features far more cheaply and reliably without requiring a common server. What the industry has forgotten is that they have to constantly promote why the "massive multiplayer" format is worth the price and hassle. They don't do that by rubbing EULAs in the face of consumers who feel they were robbed.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The best bet these days it to wait for the free trial and see what the game actually has to offer. In most cases you will find out its not good enough to buy anyway when it comes to MMOs.
MMO industry is now filled with poor games, big mouth developers but also ALOT of players that are waiting for the next great thing coming out. Only one game can deliver anything close to acceptable atm but that also means they are beeing bullish in their aproach to how they tread players.
I truly hope we see a good MMO game in the next few years that brings Blizzard down. Why ? Cause Blizzard is no longer thinking about the players. Thats why we will see a massive exodus from WoW as fast as someone can bring anything close in terms of quality.
Thank you for telling us but just because you won't pay doesn't mean that everyone else won't either...
Thank you for telling us but just because you won't pay doesn't mean that everyone else won't either...
And thanks for that gem...i couldn't have said it better myself...well...i probably could have..but i agree with sonicsix.
Client for free?
What exactly is free?
The word 'Free' is like 'Fair' it is socialist drivel.
This is Stage One thinking at its finest. In medicine before we make any changes to the patient's meds we ask... "and then what?" So the subscription is free... and then what?
Some of these games are costing a company a quarter billion dollars to bring to market and run over the first year or two. The average game has what, 100,000 to 500,000 subscriptions?
Even to break even a company would have to charge $500 per box to cover the cost of developing and running something like that horrid game Tabula Rasa for the first year. Now, for those readers that understand nothing about enonomics, companies are not around to haemorrhage money. So add on to that a decent profit and we are looking at say... $600 a box.
I say OK. Let's drop all the subscriptions and just have our boxes cost a few hundred dollars each.
Every time I see these complaints about the cost of games I just shake my head. You don't have to play with toys you know? Basically these are people that don't understand effort, reward, free markets, money, wealth, business, economies or anything else in life. These people are lazy freeloading leeches who just want want want and miss the concept of effort, earn and merit.
You don't want to pay for a subscription? OK don't. You instantly made my gaming experience better.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
I think this all boils down to whether an MMO is a software product, or a software service.
If it's a software product, then I'd like to buy it based upon the merits of what it is (not on what it may or may not be).
If it's a software service, then I'd like to subscribe to the service without having to be required to purchase any product up front.
But this combination of the two just doesn't sit right today, because development houses have broken away from any mandate to put out a stable build. It used to be in the old days, the core gameplay wouldn't change, and launches were fairly complete when shipped. It made a lot more sense back then to purchase the client, because it actually resembled a consumer product.
These days though, MMOs are like a disassembled lamp with most of the parts missing. Yes, they might send you a screw or two every now and then as long as you pay your monthly fee. They also might discontinue the lamp, and send you parts piecemeal to complete the new lamp you now will build whether you even like the new lamp or not. Of course, if you don't like the new lamp, you can cancel your subscription for lamp parts, but then what about all the time, energy and money spent so far for a broken lamp?
So if they want to sell me a lamp, I'm fine with that. If they want to sell me a part of a lamp every month, I'll subscribe to that until I complete my lamp. But this whole messed up thing we have now just isn't working well.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Golfing goes around just like that. $XX for a membership, $YY per hour, $zz per meal, $ ..... .
Golfing goes around just like that. $XX for a membership, $YY per hour, $zz per meal, $ ..... .
If it's a membership fee, why do I purchase and own a product?If the product gets lost, stolen, or damaged, the 'club' doesn't give me new software as a perk of membership. They don't, because I own the software in every way that matters.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
+1
Name one.
I have decided to extend the OP's views to the rest of my life:
I demand to be able to eat the food I order, then based on how satisfied I am with it I may or may not continue to patronize the establishment.
I also believe that I should not pay for seeing a movie that is just more Hollywood crap, if I liked the movie I will pay upon exiting the theater.
I think women should put out before I buy them dinner...of course if I do not like the sex or meal...I'm not paying.
Wouldn't it be grand if that is how life worked
That's how it works.
How grand life is.
That's how it works.
How grand life is.
Forgot to add the not paying part
Golfing goes around just like that. $XX for a membership, $YY per hour, $zz per meal, $ ..... .
If it's a membership fee, why do I purchase and own a product?If the product gets lost, stolen, or damaged, the 'club' doesn't give me new software as a perk of membership. They don't, because I own the software in every way that matters.
You are dead wrong, you do not own a product, unless you count the box the DVD and the booklet, which most likely will be outdated soon and replaced by the manual on the web. When you purchase the box you purchase a key to register an account and hence the right to log on (like a membership) and a free month to stay connected. Yes all you have is a membership plus a free monthly.When you bought the box you need to register the key to create an account, that established your membership, right to log on one account, the one you created. After that the box is totally useless. I typically throw them away. Losing the box won't cause you trouble, only by losing the password will you be in trouble. Generally if you lose your password, that means hacker stole it, you have to talk to the GM or support and try to get back your account. Yes that means as long as you can prove that you are the member (say owner of the credit card paying the monthly) you will get back your account.
Sorry friend, both of your arguments are wrong, dead wrong. You do not own the software. There are 10 million WoW users, non of them own the WoW software, Bliz owns it. If you really own the product, how can WoW ban you if you cheat?
It's in my house, on my computer, and on my shelf. It's mine in every conceivable way.
Yes, the game companies may say that they "own" the disks and code, but if they want to take away my use of the software I own, they have to buy it back from me. This is something that they don't mention outright, but they do mention in several EULAs something to the tone of, "the user is entitled to no more than $100 in reimbursement." This is to cover the initial purchase fee.
Of course, you may have to petition the publisher or even file a small claim in order to receive compensation, but the avenue is there if customers choose to pursue it.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That's how it works.
How grand life is.
Forgot to add the not paying part
You don't have to pay if you aren't satisifed with your meal.
Golfing goes around just like that. $XX for a membership, $YY per hour, $zz per meal, $ ..... .
If it's a membership fee, why do I purchase and own a product?If the product gets lost, stolen, or damaged, the 'club' doesn't give me new software as a perk of membership. They don't, because I own the software in every way that matters.
You are dead wrong, you do not own a product, unless you count the box the DVD and the booklet, which most likely will be outdated soon and replaced by the manual on the web. When you purchase the box you purchase a key to register an account and hence the right to log on (like a membership) and a free month to stay connected. Yes all you have is a membership plus a free monthly.When you bought the box you need to register the key to create an account, that established your membership, right to log on one account, the one you created. After that the box is totally useless. I typically throw them away. Losing the box won't cause you trouble, only by losing the password will you be in trouble. Generally if you lose your password, that means hacker stole it, you have to talk to the GM or support and try to get back your account. Yes that means as long as you can prove that you are the member (say owner of the credit card paying the monthly) you will get back your account.
Sorry friend, both of your arguments are wrong, dead wrong. You do not own the software. There are 10 million WoW users, non of them own the WoW software, Bliz owns it. If you really own the product, how can WoW ban you if you cheat?
Actually, all of them own it.Bliz owns the copywright, which is something different.