Basically those in favor of private servers are saying.. yeah its okay to steal as long as you can get away with it. Imagine working your ass off for years to develop a software and someone stole your software add their own name on it and go around selling or giving it away.. what would you feel ? If I have a best selling multi-million dollar IP I'd hell do anything to protect it.
Again, I repeat it. I support the NC peoples who sues, hunt, kill these illegal servers.
However, they must leave the devs alone. Don't take away the devs motivation, interest, purpose. Corporate NC peoples have lawyers, bulldog, brutes. Devs are not to be wasted there, or as little as possible.
Me, I want my focus with the devs themselves and pay for a good game. I don't want my devs, to be even remotedly involved in this, it would taint them and hurt their inner spirit. I want my "NC devs" to focus on my good games!
So, again, I hardly see why we should talk about that much. This is, hopefully, corporate NC only. They have rights and obligations toward their boss, their devs...and their players/wanna be players (currently unsubscribed because me want mooooore!).
See, I hope Bab for example has nearly nothing to do with hunting down these illegal servers. I want da Bab (Lead Programmer) "happy" and focused on the game. Not about some stuff no happening on the official game. I guess as a programmer he would have to be involved a little, but keep it to a minimal. The artist/designers of the game shouldn't be involved at all.
You are what you eat. If my devs are involved in this too much...it would destroy my game. NC corporate folks, they have a duty to make sure the devs are involved as little as possible (of course a programmer like Bab would need to speak with the programmers to hunt down the pirates stuff, but he wouldn't be hunting down these "criminals", nor focusing on that, nor any dev-prog, have a distinct programmer staff for that hunting).
See, this thread seriously scare me. I can see, easily, corporate folks, screwing my devs badly. With focus on stuff these devs shouldn't even think much about.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is more hilarious than a US political debate ROFLMFAO!
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between copyright infringement & stealing, doesn't have the intelligence (nor moral fibre) to be in this discussion, period, so feel free to abstain, mkay?
And anyone who thinks current IP laws are anything but a mockery of what was intended or are somehow decent & right, is obviously just another sponge in one of the cartel links. All hail the Gods of Capitalism!
Someone using someone else's code for personal use & NOT profit (unlike these Internet cafes) is clearly not in the same pig sty. Not to mention, a lot of the peeps here have PAID for the game, PAID for many months/years of sub & now you would begrudge them playing on their own server (which costs the mmo dev exactly ZERO!) for their own reasons/setup/preferred style!? Are you guys like all NC flunkies or something LOL? NC has a right to prevent loss of profit, sure. Let them prove said loss against anyone using their code for personal, non-profit use only. Prove to me I would've bought your game otherwise & we can start a rational discourse. Let's not even get into free advertising, word of mouth & how marketing forces work around freeware & open source products to actually generate MORE total revenue!
In any case, this is about nothing but greed & the almighty dollar. To quote the good book correctly for a change: "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". Case in point: current IP laws since the 1950s.
Anyone else calls me a thief or cheap & I'll email them a fiver. Let's see who's cheap now!
Viva La Revolucion!!!
They say that right before you die, your life flashes before your eyes. That's true, even for a blind man. ^DareDevil^
I played l2 some years ago. I've started on a private server due to some friends. After i started enjoying the game i decided to go on the official ones. I really don't mind paying 15$ for something i like nor the 1x rates. But after 2 month i couldnt stand all the bots exploiters and such. Went back to a private server and had way more fun not because it was free, not because i leveled a bit faster it was because the owner was actually trying to amke it a fair game, I haven't even saw 1 bot on that private. Altho i'm not playing anymore that server has passed any of the official server in the number of online people in a single world ...it reaked around 9k players.
On private servers there are 3 types of players. The ones which can't afford and those will never go on official. the ones that play it coz its free but if they really like it they will go on official (on this one private servers actually help). The last one are tthe people really hating the way NC Soft treats their customers and allowing to game to become worst then the f2p games and those won't go back unless they decide to do something regarding the bots especially.
Now who the heck takes the decision at NC Soft when it's obvious that they have to fix their game first and not start chasing ghosts. They will never manage to close all the private servers and that on som Eastern European countries that are not in EU they don't even have laws on those things...so they are imune to NC Soft...
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
There are L2 private servers that completely blocked botting software, private servers where people could have done money cause of their high popularity (6.000 players online at the same time). What they should do is to hire those talented coders so they improve the game protection and packets blocking, and create a casual server with 5x rates or so, now that would be a good idea.
there labor lol you gusy relize most private server are made from ground up with just using packets right?
ive read throw the eura or what ever its called. as long as the private server is using there own code or a emulator group code and not stolen code and not charging ncsoft cant do a darn thing.
This is more hilarious than a US political debate ROFLMFAO! Anyone who doesn't know the difference between copyright infringement & stealing, doesn't have the intelligence (nor moral fibre) to be in this discussion, period, so feel free to abstain, mkay? And anyone who thinks current IP laws are anything but a mockery of what was intended or are somehow decent & right, is obviously just another sponge in one of the cartel links. All hail the Gods of Capitalism! Someone using someone else's code for personal use & NOT profit (unlike these Internet cafes) is clearly not in the same pig sty. Not to mention, a lot of the peeps here have PAID for the game, PAID for many months/years of sub & now you would begrudge them playing on their own server (which costs the mmo dev exactly ZERO!) for their own reasons/setup/preferred style!? Are you guys like all NC flunkies or something LOL? NC has a right to prevent loss of profit, sure. Let them prove said loss against anyone using their code for personal, non-profit use only. Prove to me I would've bought your game otherwise & we can start a rational discourse. Let's not even get into free advertising, word of mouth & how marketing forces work around freeware & open source products to actually generate MORE total revenue! In any case, this is about nothing but greed & the almighty dollar. To quote the good book correctly for a change: "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". Case in point: current IP laws since the 1950s.
Anyone else calls me a thief or cheap & I'll email them a fiver. Let's see who's cheap now! Viva La Revolucion!!!
Using ncsoft code can and will get them shut down. Using a emulators group code that coded from the packets. ncsoft cant shut them down unless there charging monthly fees
This discussion is as old as the earth itself. There has always been, since we started making stuff discussions on who owns what. Nowadays, the record/music and now mmo developers try to invent losses on piracy. Now, I dont support piracy in any way but I cant see how the music industry is claiming that the kids that download mp3's of the net equals a lost sale.
Point is, when people get access to alot more music/movies than the mainstream is feeding them the interest for it go up. I a perfectly logical world the sales will automatically go up aswell. I dont buy the invented fantasy losses the record/movie industry is trying to feed its customers. Yes, they lose income on the ones that sell those pirated cd/dvds, and they should really concentrate their efforts at them, not the 13y old, sitting at dads pc downloading some mp3/movies on the net. Wasted effort. I like how one musician said it(forgot who): 'Piracy is killing the music industry. The music industry is killing the music.'
Now, if NCSoft is going after the people that runs internet cafes and sell playtime on pirated servers I got no problem with it. Its a lost sale. Now, if they go after the people playing and running pirated servers for free they gain nothing. For every server like that they close 10x pop up to replace it. Besides, the people playing in those servers wont subscribe to their game even if they somehow managed to close them all down. They like the increased xp, item and droprates and dont like how NCSoft runs things. Maybe they are cheap bastards who never would buy their product ever.
If some person download the latest fps in the net, that doesnt translate to a lost sale, not even a potential lost sale. If the person like the fps/whatever game they will buy it to get the chance to play online, see regular patches and so on. Most people like to have originals. Those that dont, will never buy them in the first place, so the companies havent lost anything. Some people use those downloaded games to test the games to see if they are any good. Face it, most demos today are a complete joke, telling you jackshit about the game. Maybe some people cant afford buying those games cause the prices are too high(where I live, Norway any random new game for any ports go for $100+). Now, we may be one of the richest countries in the world, but we got alot of poor people, cause our government sucks(but that is another story).
To end this wall of text, the best anti piracy move any game developer can do is make quality games, and if they are mmo's make damn sure the playing field is even. I always find it laugable that Blizzard sometimes complain about pirated server but hardly do anything about all the gold selllers spamming nonstop in their game. If NCSoft want their precious L2/EQ2 whatever players back, they better go through their games, permabanning every cheater they can find, no questions asked, no answers given. Atleast that is a good first step for them. Not this useless legal crap which will lead nowhere, just cost alot of money.
Man, I guess this is just what is wrong with the world today. It almost makes me wish we could seperate the internet by country so it could be better regulated. (Not really but almost)
If you can't see how this is wrong let me explain a different reason.
If I make a movie with Mickey Mouse in it using my home computer and then distribute the movie for free (not charging anything) that still hurts Disney. Why you might ask, since I am not making any money? Well because I am hurting their copyright by hurting the quality of said copyright. People will look at my version and will feel that Mickey Mouse isn't a very good character, when in reality my version may not be anything at all like Disney's version. So Disney has ever right to protect their brand from unauthorized usage.
The same thing goes for MMO games. Sure the people running games might not be making any money off the game (and some of them are though) and sure the private server might be doing a better job in customer service (but not all of them are) so they may or may not be helping Lineage 2 as a brand. For instance if the first L2 server you played on was a private server and you then decide you would like to get all of the updated patches and content so you move to the retail server, but you just can't stand how you level slower on the retail server. In this example the private free server hurt the Lineage 2 brand because that potential customer had unrealistic expectations about the product. Expectations that they would not have if they had never played on a private server.
It doesn't make a difference if you use emulated code or steal the code. In either case you are commiting copyright infringement. It doesn't matter if you charge money or not. It still is copyright infringement.
But I guess so many people are blinded by their socialist views of how horrible capitalism is. I realize that people who feel this way will totally disagree with what I have written but I hope some people who might be on the fence will realize how it is wrong to steal someone else's work and represent it to other people.
The thing that people need to keep in mind as well is this isn't a case of me buying the software and then making myself a server where I only play on it. No these people are making servers and representing a product that isn't their own to thousands of other people.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
personaly NCsoft should take private servers as a way of advertasment, like i said on another post it cant be considered copyright infregment unless you are saying it is yours and making your player pay for it, and your not giving some profit to the orignal company
Man, I guess this is just what is wrong with the world today. It almost makes me wish we could seperate the internet by country so it could be better regulated. (Not really but almost) If you can't see how this is wrong let me explain a different reason. If I make a movie with Mickey Mouse in it using my home computer and then distribute the movie for free (not charging anything) that still hurts Disney. Why you might ask, since I am not making any money? Well because I am hurting their copyright by hurting the quality of said copyright. People will look at my version and will feel that Mickey Mouse isn't a very good character, when in reality my version may not be anything at all like Disney's version. So Disney has ever right to protect their brand from unauthorized usage. The same thing goes for MMO games. Sure the people running games might not be making any money off the game (and some of them are though) and sure the private server might be doing a better job in customer service (but not all of them are) so they may or may not be helping Lineage 2 as a brand. For instance if the first L2 server you played on was a private server and you then decide you would like to get all of the updated patches and content so you move to the retail server, but you just can't stand how you level slower on the retail server. In this example the private free server hurt the Lineage 2 brand because that potential customer had unrealistic expectations about the product. Expectations that they would not have if they had never played on a private server. It doesn't make a difference if you use emulated code or steal the code. In either case you are commiting copyright infringement. It doesn't matter if you charge money or not. It still is copyright infringement. But I guess so many people are blinded by their socialist views of how horrible capitalism is. I realize that people who feel this way will totally disagree with what I have written but I hope some people who might be on the fence will realize how it is wrong to steal someone else's work and represent it to other people.
The thing that people need to keep in mind as well is this isn't a case of me buying the software and then making myself a server where I only play on it. No these people are making servers and representing a product that isn't their own to thousands of other people.
You make good points, but the ground on which they sit is still as shaky as those supporting private servers. Do you really think Disney would come after you for making a fan-film no matter what quality it is? There are Mickey Mouse pictures and movies on the internet that are MUCH more inappropriate than a poorly made "family-friendly" movie. Just typing in a couple of keywords will bring up tons of sites - many of which are right here in the U.S. WITH legitimate URLs. If you did make something like that and got a cease and desist letter, most people would take it down because it's not worth the effort to fight it out in court, not because they were wrong to make it. It just seems to me that most people (especially corporate entities) are too fond of seeing things entirely in black and white. Probably because they're dancing in a gray area themselves somewhere else, so they blow up everything that even remotely resembles someone doing the same to them.
Nobody is saying they dont have the right to do so or that it's not legal...or at least most don't. All we were saying is they have other major issues they need to be fixed first...
...and if your Mickey Mouse gets infested with parasites in the Disney version i can write them that i dont like it and they still wont do ****....gues ill end up watching home made version because they cheer me up. Private servers offer most of us the possibility of playing the game as it was made to be...a fair game. Look at SWG there is a full team of ppl trying to make an emulated server of the game pre-CU. Think of it as a way to punish teh game companies.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
Nobody is saying they dont have the right to do so or that it's not legal...or at least most don't. All we were saying is they have other major issues they need to be fixed first...
...and if your Mickey Mouse gets infested with parasites in the Disney version i can write them that i dont like it and they still wont do ****....gues ill end up watching home made version because they cheer me up. Private servers offer most of us the possibility of playing the game as it was made to be...a fair game. Look at SWG there is a full team of ppl trying to make an emulated server of the game pre-CU. Think of it as a way to punish teh game companies.
You have no right to "punish" the game companies other then to not purchase their service.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
by playing on a private server i'm not doing anything wrong...me personaly not the guy with the server. So i think it a very legal way to punish them, same as not playing and paying on their official servers...so i do have the right to punsih them ...and i said it before ill prolly even try again L2 if they do a cleanup on their servers...all those private servers should have been motivated them, but instead there are private ones that pass the official ones...now thats weird
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
by playing on a private server i'm not doing anything wrong...me personaly not the guy with the server. So i think it a very legal way to punish them, same as not playing and paying on their official servers...so i do have the right to punsih them ...and i said it before ill prolly even try again L2 if they do a cleanup on their servers...all those private servers should have been motivated them, but instead there are private ones that pass the official ones...now thats weird
Receiving stolen goods (separate from the act of the theft) can be punished as a misdemeanor or a felony....
Why? Because you're basically encouraging criminals to go back and steal more.
by playing on a private server i'm not doing anything wrong...me personaly not the guy with the server. So i think it a very legal way to punish them, same as not playing and paying on their official servers...so i do have the right to punsih them ...and i said it before ill prolly even try again L2 if they do a cleanup on their servers...all those private servers should have been motivated them, but instead there are private ones that pass the official ones...now thats weird
Yeah, you are doing something wrong, but lack the ability to discern it. You are stealing from NCSoft, no matter how you justify it. Its pretty simple.
And to those folks who say its OK if they code it from the ground up, wrong again. Software "Look and Feel" has been protected for a long time now (Lotus Corp fought that battle back in the 80's) and Intellectual property (like lore, character design, graphics) are all protected by copyright laws the world over.
I'm not an NCSoft shill, but I do develop software for a living and fully appreciate their need to protect their intellectual property.
And to the two or three posters who claim this is all about "greed". Of course it is. As Gorden Gecko once said, "Greed is good". Its all how a capitalistic society is run, we all work hard creating something of value and expect fair market value for it.
Once in a while, we hit the jackpot, and figure out how to make something for cheap, and sell it for a lot. That's all part of the plan, and we aren't being "greedy" by wanting to enjoy the spoils of our good fortune. Stop being so jealous of the people who have succeeded and instead work on making yourself a success.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So if a company came out and offered free Whoppers that were cooked faster and didn't have any pickles, Burger King shouldn't claim they lost business because if people wanted the real whoppers they would be paying for them? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Of course piracy and private servers are hurting the Software industry and they should be shut down. It is illegal and it costs the people that designed the software hard earned money.
I can assure you, if you were giving away free hamburgers you would not need to call them whoppers to unload them.
You would not, in any way or form be punishable in any court on this planet for giving away free food, just call it sharity.
In fact I bet Burger King would PAY you to give away free hamburgers called whoppers.
I am not arguing about the fact that these things cost the companies money, alltough I really think the loss is miniscule and could easily be retained by NOT paying lawyers increadible amounts to sue said services.
But as one who likes analogies I need to say, yours is one of the worst I have ever read.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if a company came out and offered free Whoppers that were cooked faster and didn't have any pickles, Burger King shouldn't claim they lost business because if people wanted the real whoppers they would be paying for them? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Of course piracy and private servers are hurting the Software industry and they should be shut down. It is illegal and it costs the people that designed the software hard earned money.
I can assure you, if you were giving away free hamburgers you would not need to call them whoppers to unload them.
You would not, in any way or form be punishable in any court on this planet for giving away free food, just call it sharity.
In fact I bet Burger King would PAY you to give away free hamburgers called whoppers.
I am not arguing about the fact that these things cost the companies money, alltough I really think the loss is miniscule and could easily be retained by NOT paying lawyers increadible amounts to sue said services.
But as one who likes analogies I need to say, yours is one of the worst I have ever read.
You know what? While I wouldn't say it was the worst, you are quite right. It made more sense when I was thinking about it and I was in a hurry and didn't reread it at the time. (It wasn't very good)
But the point remains that Piracy of software and offering the servers to other people is a competition to the owner of that software. I just can't understand how people don't see the wrong in doing so.
I honestly feel that people who see doing things like this as okay are the same people who would steal from stores and then claim if the company didn't want it stolen they should charge less for it.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
If you put it like that from a technical point of view in any democratic country your innocent till proven guilty,right? That means they have to prove that i was aware that was a pirate server,right? Kinda hard to prove that since I can always say i went to www.lineage(2).<insert your country> downloaded the game and played.
I have bought a Lineage 2 box from NC Soft , i am playing and paying TR from NC Soft also, i do like to buy software so the developers can develop the software further (im working in the software business too)....but at the same time i encourage anyone to steal from developers that don't know to manage and respect their customers because it will be a waste of a good quality software and many others. If you can't do it let someone else do it.Maybe they should do it like with the medicine patents where they can produce a certain medicine for 4 or 8 (don't remember exactly) year in exclusivity then other companies are allowed to develop that too.
And for the last time I'm not talking in general I'm talking in particular about NC Softs Lineage 2 case. They do deserve it and after all this years they still don't realize why although a total success in asia it was a total fail in US and to a certin degree in EU. I'm saying they do have the right and should hunt private servers...but only after fixing the issues they have "at home" because else will be an waist of time mostly because it will be impossible to close all and even if they could those people wont go on their servers...and I'm not talking about those that couldn't afford it anyway.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
My stance is pretty straightforward: If you are aware that your activities are illegal and you get caught, you should be prepared to face the consequences associated with it.
If you disagree that the activities should be perceived as illegal, you should get involved in politics and change the legislation.
As long as people accept the consequences of their actions without moaning or pretending they didn't know I really don't have the inclination to debunk this or that argument. Read the law, if you chose not to abide by it, you will potentially face consequences. If you find the law obfuscate, review previous convictions in similar cases to determine any precedence.
Be aware that there will be huge differences in this from country to country (even within the EU) so know your local law, not just the law in the country of the poster above you.
Comments
My money is on them using the L2OFF server software as opposed to L2J...
One being illegal, the other being being in a somewhat grey area.
tech if they coded from scratch just using packets. there not illagle
Basically those in favor of private servers are saying.. yeah its okay to steal as long as you can get away with it. Imagine working your ass off for years to develop a software and someone stole your software add their own name on it and go around selling or giving it away.. what would you feel ? If I have a best selling multi-million dollar IP I'd hell do anything to protect it.
Again, I repeat it. I support the NC peoples who sues, hunt, kill these illegal servers.
However, they must leave the devs alone. Don't take away the devs motivation, interest, purpose. Corporate NC peoples have lawyers, bulldog, brutes. Devs are not to be wasted there, or as little as possible.
Me, I want my focus with the devs themselves and pay for a good game. I don't want my devs, to be even remotedly involved in this, it would taint them and hurt their inner spirit. I want my "NC devs" to focus on my good games!
So, again, I hardly see why we should talk about that much. This is, hopefully, corporate NC only. They have rights and obligations toward their boss, their devs...and their players/wanna be players (currently unsubscribed because me want mooooore!).
See, I hope Bab for example has nearly nothing to do with hunting down these illegal servers. I want da Bab (Lead Programmer) "happy" and focused on the game. Not about some stuff no happening on the official game. I guess as a programmer he would have to be involved a little, but keep it to a minimal. The artist/designers of the game shouldn't be involved at all.
You are what you eat. If my devs are involved in this too much...it would destroy my game. NC corporate folks, they have a duty to make sure the devs are involved as little as possible (of course a programmer like Bab would need to speak with the programmers to hunt down the pirates stuff, but he wouldn't be hunting down these "criminals", nor focusing on that, nor any dev-prog, have a distinct programmer staff for that hunting).
Me wants to make sure NC corporate don't hurt my devs...or... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Im1bCKoQs8
See, this thread seriously scare me. I can see, easily, corporate folks, screwing my devs badly. With focus on stuff these devs shouldn't even think much about.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is more hilarious than a US political debate ROFLMFAO!
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between copyright infringement & stealing, doesn't have the intelligence (nor moral fibre) to be in this discussion, period, so feel free to abstain, mkay?
And anyone who thinks current IP laws are anything but a mockery of what was intended or are somehow decent & right, is obviously just another sponge in one of the cartel links. All hail the Gods of Capitalism!
Someone using someone else's code for personal use & NOT profit (unlike these Internet cafes) is clearly not in the same pig sty. Not to mention, a lot of the peeps here have PAID for the game, PAID for many months/years of sub & now you would begrudge them playing on their own server (which costs the mmo dev exactly ZERO!) for their own reasons/setup/preferred style!? Are you guys like all NC flunkies or something LOL? NC has a right to prevent loss of profit, sure. Let them prove said loss against anyone using their code for personal, non-profit use only. Prove to me I would've bought your game otherwise & we can start a rational discourse. Let's not even get into free advertising, word of mouth & how marketing forces work around freeware & open source products to actually generate MORE total revenue!
In any case, this is about nothing but greed & the almighty dollar. To quote the good book correctly for a change: "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". Case in point: current IP laws since the 1950s.
Anyone else calls me a thief or cheap & I'll email them a fiver. Let's see who's cheap now!
Viva La Revolucion!!!
They say that right before you die, your life flashes before your eyes. That's true, even for a blind man. ^DareDevil^
I played l2 some years ago. I've started on a private server due to some friends. After i started enjoying the game i decided to go on the official ones. I really don't mind paying 15$ for something i like nor the 1x rates. But after 2 month i couldnt stand all the bots exploiters and such. Went back to a private server and had way more fun not because it was free, not because i leveled a bit faster it was because the owner was actually trying to amke it a fair game, I haven't even saw 1 bot on that private. Altho i'm not playing anymore that server has passed any of the official server in the number of online people in a single world ...it reaked around 9k players.
On private servers there are 3 types of players. The ones which can't afford and those will never go on official. the ones that play it coz its free but if they really like it they will go on official (on this one private servers actually help). The last one are tthe people really hating the way NC Soft treats their customers and allowing to game to become worst then the f2p games and those won't go back unless they decide to do something regarding the bots especially.
Now who the heck takes the decision at NC Soft when it's obvious that they have to fix their game first and not start chasing ghosts. They will never manage to close all the private servers and that on som Eastern European countries that are not in EU they don't even have laws on those things...so they are imune to NC Soft...
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
Just a pair of facts:
There are L2 private servers that completely blocked botting software, private servers where people could have done money cause of their high popularity (6.000 players online at the same time). What they should do is to hire those talented coders so they improve the game protection and packets blocking, and create a casual server with 5x rates or so, now that would be a good idea.
there labor lol you gusy relize most private server are made from ground up with just using packets right?
ive read throw the eura or what ever its called. as long as the private server is using there own code or a emulator group code and not stolen code and not charging ncsoft cant do a darn thing.
Using ncsoft code can and will get them shut down. Using a emulators group code that coded from the packets. ncsoft cant shut them down unless there charging monthly fees
This discussion is as old as the earth itself. There has always been, since we started making stuff discussions on who owns what. Nowadays, the record/music and now mmo developers try to invent losses on piracy. Now, I dont support piracy in any way but I cant see how the music industry is claiming that the kids that download mp3's of the net equals a lost sale.
Point is, when people get access to alot more music/movies than the mainstream is feeding them the interest for it go up. I a perfectly logical world the sales will automatically go up aswell. I dont buy the invented fantasy losses the record/movie industry is trying to feed its customers. Yes, they lose income on the ones that sell those pirated cd/dvds, and they should really concentrate their efforts at them, not the 13y old, sitting at dads pc downloading some mp3/movies on the net. Wasted effort. I like how one musician said it(forgot who): 'Piracy is killing the music industry. The music industry is killing the music.'
Now, if NCSoft is going after the people that runs internet cafes and sell playtime on pirated servers I got no problem with it. Its a lost sale. Now, if they go after the people playing and running pirated servers for free they gain nothing. For every server like that they close 10x pop up to replace it. Besides, the people playing in those servers wont subscribe to their game even if they somehow managed to close them all down. They like the increased xp, item and droprates and dont like how NCSoft runs things. Maybe they are cheap bastards who never would buy their product ever.
If some person download the latest fps in the net, that doesnt translate to a lost sale, not even a potential lost sale. If the person like the fps/whatever game they will buy it to get the chance to play online, see regular patches and so on. Most people like to have originals. Those that dont, will never buy them in the first place, so the companies havent lost anything. Some people use those downloaded games to test the games to see if they are any good. Face it, most demos today are a complete joke, telling you jackshit about the game. Maybe some people cant afford buying those games cause the prices are too high(where I live, Norway any random new game for any ports go for $100+). Now, we may be one of the richest countries in the world, but we got alot of poor people, cause our government sucks(but that is another story).
To end this wall of text, the best anti piracy move any game developer can do is make quality games, and if they are mmo's make damn sure the playing field is even. I always find it laugable that Blizzard sometimes complain about pirated server but hardly do anything about all the gold selllers spamming nonstop in their game. If NCSoft want their precious L2/EQ2 whatever players back, they better go through their games, permabanning every cheater they can find, no questions asked, no answers given. Atleast that is a good first step for them. Not this useless legal crap which will lead nowhere, just cost alot of money.
...wow...this got alot longer than I planned
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
You're going to kill orcs for 8 days and you're going to like it!
Man, I guess this is just what is wrong with the world today. It almost makes me wish we could seperate the internet by country so it could be better regulated. (Not really but almost)
If you can't see how this is wrong let me explain a different reason.
If I make a movie with Mickey Mouse in it using my home computer and then distribute the movie for free (not charging anything) that still hurts Disney. Why you might ask, since I am not making any money? Well because I am hurting their copyright by hurting the quality of said copyright. People will look at my version and will feel that Mickey Mouse isn't a very good character, when in reality my version may not be anything at all like Disney's version. So Disney has ever right to protect their brand from unauthorized usage.
The same thing goes for MMO games. Sure the people running games might not be making any money off the game (and some of them are though) and sure the private server might be doing a better job in customer service (but not all of them are) so they may or may not be helping Lineage 2 as a brand. For instance if the first L2 server you played on was a private server and you then decide you would like to get all of the updated patches and content so you move to the retail server, but you just can't stand how you level slower on the retail server. In this example the private free server hurt the Lineage 2 brand because that potential customer had unrealistic expectations about the product. Expectations that they would not have if they had never played on a private server.
It doesn't make a difference if you use emulated code or steal the code. In either case you are commiting copyright infringement. It doesn't matter if you charge money or not. It still is copyright infringement.
But I guess so many people are blinded by their socialist views of how horrible capitalism is. I realize that people who feel this way will totally disagree with what I have written but I hope some people who might be on the fence will realize how it is wrong to steal someone else's work and represent it to other people.
The thing that people need to keep in mind as well is this isn't a case of me buying the software and then making myself a server where I only play on it. No these people are making servers and representing a product that isn't their own to thousands of other people.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
NCsoft made the game, and they want to have control over it. What's else to discuss, really?
If people want to play for free, fine, do that. But don't try to justify your actions, because that's just silly.
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Kenneth Tarre - Aion Correspondent
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
IF I MADE A GAME THEN SOMEONE OFFERED THE GAME THAT I WOULD SO HARD FOR FREE....I WOULD BE PISSED...AND DO THE SAME...I WITH NC ON THIS
personaly NCsoft should take private servers as a way of advertasment, like i said on another post it cant be considered copyright infregment unless you are saying it is yours and making your player pay for it, and your not giving some profit to the orignal company
You make good points, but the ground on which they sit is still as shaky as those supporting private servers. Do you really think Disney would come after you for making a fan-film no matter what quality it is? There are Mickey Mouse pictures and movies on the internet that are MUCH more inappropriate than a poorly made "family-friendly" movie. Just typing in a couple of keywords will bring up tons of sites - many of which are right here in the U.S. WITH legitimate URLs. If you did make something like that and got a cease and desist letter, most people would take it down because it's not worth the effort to fight it out in court, not because they were wrong to make it. It just seems to me that most people (especially corporate entities) are too fond of seeing things entirely in black and white. Probably because they're dancing in a gray area themselves somewhere else, so they blow up everything that even remotely resembles someone doing the same to them.
Nobody is saying they dont have the right to do so or that it's not legal...or at least most don't. All we were saying is they have other major issues they need to be fixed first...
...and if your Mickey Mouse gets infested with parasites in the Disney version i can write them that i dont like it and they still wont do ****....gues ill end up watching home made version because they cheer me up. Private servers offer most of us the possibility of playing the game as it was made to be...a fair game. Look at SWG there is a full team of ppl trying to make an emulated server of the game pre-CU. Think of it as a way to punish teh game companies.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
You have no right to "punish" the game companies other then to not purchase their service.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
by playing on a private server i'm not doing anything wrong...me personaly not the guy with the server. So i think it a very legal way to punish them, same as not playing and paying on their official servers...so i do have the right to punsih them ...and i said it before ill prolly even try again L2 if they do a cleanup on their servers...all those private servers should have been motivated them, but instead there are private ones that pass the official ones...now thats weird
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
Why? Because you're basically encouraging criminals to go back and steal more.
Yeah, you are doing something wrong, but lack the ability to discern it. You are stealing from NCSoft, no matter how you justify it. Its pretty simple.
And to those folks who say its OK if they code it from the ground up, wrong again. Software "Look and Feel" has been protected for a long time now (Lotus Corp fought that battle back in the 80's) and Intellectual property (like lore, character design, graphics) are all protected by copyright laws the world over.
I'm not an NCSoft shill, but I do develop software for a living and fully appreciate their need to protect their intellectual property.
And to the two or three posters who claim this is all about "greed". Of course it is. As Gorden Gecko once said, "Greed is good". Its all how a capitalistic society is run, we all work hard creating something of value and expect fair market value for it.
Once in a while, we hit the jackpot, and figure out how to make something for cheap, and sell it for a lot. That's all part of the plan, and we aren't being "greedy" by wanting to enjoy the spoils of our good fortune. Stop being so jealous of the people who have succeeded and instead work on making yourself a success.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You would not, in any way or form be punishable in any court on this planet for giving away free food, just call it sharity.
In fact I bet Burger King would PAY you to give away free hamburgers called whoppers.
I am not arguing about the fact that these things cost the companies money, alltough I really think the loss is miniscule and could easily be retained by NOT paying lawyers increadible amounts to sue said services.
But as one who likes analogies I need to say, yours is one of the worst I have ever read.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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You would not, in any way or form be punishable in any court on this planet for giving away free food, just call it sharity.
In fact I bet Burger King would PAY you to give away free hamburgers called whoppers.
I am not arguing about the fact that these things cost the companies money, alltough I really think the loss is miniscule and could easily be retained by NOT paying lawyers increadible amounts to sue said services.
But as one who likes analogies I need to say, yours is one of the worst I have ever read.
You know what? While I wouldn't say it was the worst, you are quite right. It made more sense when I was thinking about it and I was in a hurry and didn't reread it at the time.But the point remains that Piracy of software and offering the servers to other people is a competition to the owner of that software. I just can't understand how people don't see the wrong in doing so.
I honestly feel that people who see doing things like this as okay are the same people who would steal from stores and then claim if the company didn't want it stolen they should charge less for it.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
@therain93 ,kyleran
If you put it like that from a technical point of view in any democratic country your innocent till proven guilty,right? That means they have to prove that i was aware that was a pirate server,right? Kinda hard to prove that since I can always say i went to www.lineage(2).<insert your country> downloaded the game and played.
I have bought a Lineage 2 box from NC Soft , i am playing and paying TR from NC Soft also, i do like to buy software so the developers can develop the software further (im working in the software business too)....but at the same time i encourage anyone to steal from developers that don't know to manage and respect their customers because it will be a waste of a good quality software and many others. If you can't do it let someone else do it.Maybe they should do it like with the medicine patents where they can produce a certain medicine for 4 or 8 (don't remember exactly) year in exclusivity then other companies are allowed to develop that too.
And for the last time I'm not talking in general I'm talking in particular about NC Softs Lineage 2 case. They do deserve it and after all this years they still don't realize why although a total success in asia it was a total fail in US and to a certin degree in EU. I'm saying they do have the right and should hunt private servers...but only after fixing the issues they have "at home" because else will be an waist of time mostly because it will be impossible to close all and even if they could those people wont go on their servers...and I'm not talking about those that couldn't afford it anyway.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. A. Einstein
My stance is pretty straightforward: If you are aware that your activities are illegal and you get caught, you should be prepared to face the consequences associated with it.
If you disagree that the activities should be perceived as illegal, you should get involved in politics and change the legislation.
As long as people accept the consequences of their actions without moaning or pretending they didn't know I really don't have the inclination to debunk this or that argument. Read the law, if you chose not to abide by it, you will potentially face consequences. If you find the law obfuscate, review previous convictions in similar cases to determine any precedence.
Be aware that there will be huge differences in this from country to country (even within the EU) so know your local law, not just the law in the country of the poster above you.