thats exactly my point, the "grind" would be such a grind, if it were given a variety of ways to be achieved. But like I said in AO only 1 mob worth that much xp, and you get sick of killing them over and over. Before SL came out people at least did mission, there you just needed a good team, but with the hecks it's awful, players camp areas for spawns and will flame you like mad should you enter "thier territory" looking for kills...
Give me a variety of mobs, missions, redoable quests, even stupid things like races or unique crafting... hell even a special pvp quest or something... just make the grind monotonous...
I didn't get the full 2 weeks of my ac2 trial cause (A) I was a little busy and (B) they mob every told me to kill was camped to hell. You kill 1 mob to get a quest worth good xp, but I could spend 2 hours just looking for that mob only to have the team get bored of searching break up, then get another team and try again... AC2 is a nice game and decent story if you follow the warders quuests, but they need to increase xp from mobs (just a little) and decrease the difficulty OR increase hit rate, you miss so ofter even with mastery skills that some fights you could lose to a mob you normally murder. But so hard to find teams for some of the lower level quests that you can't do them as a result. Why?.. Cause they are all camping that first mob.... seriously... when I got to the teaming point for the bound fets quest thing, I discovered thats whereevery even near my lev was hanging out, and all doing the same damn thing...
Damn it, I make my own fun and i still got bored playing that game
There have been some very intriguing posts and i love some of the ideas iv read - i think the point made about copying eq set a standard for the way mmo's are made and the grind is a grind and no other ways to go about it make the games boring for many after so much - is because of this -- these games most of them out there have been in development for so long you have to think three years back when the design for the game first started and a lot of these games have been out for a while now - so to mention time frame as a possible reason for the complaints about mmo's -- another issue is that this genre is in such an infant stage that developers with each mmo that passes are listening - but to change the way a system works in the game - a quest system for example - could be beyond the resources of the company - so instead of fixing these issues the developers are starting anew with the next best mmo and there next project - i believe that players should not complain about the problems with mmo's but play the games for what they are and come together to discuss and work for form better ways and new ideas for fixing or adding or redesigning - so construct don't complain --
Being contuctive is a great concept. However at the moment SoE is deleting "constructive" posts from thier forums to try and not let outsiders see flaws in the game... We are here complaining, not because we feel like bitching, but because majority of the distros have decided to not listen to our ideas on how to improve serious issues with thier games. So alot of designers tend to read the forums here in order to get an idea of what people don't want. I myself am currently designing an mmo and pay careful attention to what the people say they hate about games in these forums. It encourages me to target flawed areas of other games and try to develop dynamic ways to avoid those pitfalls. and so far.. so good. Just hope I can sell it when it's done
so people, by all means, rant and rave and bitch and complain about the games you play, cause I have't tried em all, and don't want to be like any of them
i see where you are coming from - but my question is how do you know there not listening - could it just be that the post they delete are the ones they write down and keep around -- also good posts and ideas sadly may be absorbed by the programmers and designers only to be rejected by a suite in the company who wants to feel important - the flaws in games go beyond the design sometimes and the problems exist in management - what designer wouldn't want to make the 'grind' more dynamic and fun - whoever a suite might see the extra $$ its going to take to do it and say - no- and not only no - but delete that post so others don't get on the bandwagon -- i agree with you and almost every post in here - i just like to throw in a different point of view
Originally posted by Sketch because nothings changed
Your sig changed
Like the new one, too.
Anyway, the problem isn't that devs aren't listening, it's that they're not communicating their position on things very well, and the people they are listening to are the wrong ones, basically. I'll take a stab in the dark and say 85% of the players of any given game never set foot in the official forums. Basically there are four people posting there. People who quit, and are just trolling, saying how the game, and anyone whwo plays it sucks. People who say they are going to quit every five minutes, just as soon as game X comes out, and are just trolling to get attention. Then you have the Comic Book Guy poster. Writes longwinded posts about how and why the game sucks, and if it isn't changed to his satisfaction immediately, he will quit/sue everyone/explode, and or write a eye searingly misspelled review on his blog and x-post it to rec.alt.gaming, and all the MMO newsites as well, causing the downfall of civilization as we know it. Finally there is the uber-rare spawn, the rational poster who comes up with good ideas, that are well thought out, and take the game as a whole into consideration, not just their pet class of the week. Their posts are almost immediately lost amongst the howling of the insane, and soon dissapear into the void known only as "Page 2", because rationality, and logic isn't as fun to read as a flamewar between, say, HebrewBomb, and Nooblet.
------- They panic, so... just hold them down I could live like this I'm closing in; hate all around I could be like this Hearing them; them in my head How can they be so sweet... sweet?
Anyway, the problem isn't that devs aren't listening, it's that they're not communicating their position on things very well, and the people they are listening to are the wrong ones, basically. I'll take a stab in the dark and say 85% of the players of any given game never set foot in the official forums. Basically there are four people posting there. People who quit, and are just trolling, saying how the game, and anyone whwo plays it sucks. People who say they are going to quit every five minutes, just as soon as game X comes out, and are just trolling to get attention. Then you have the Comic Book Guy poster. Writes longwinded posts about how and why the game sucks, and if it isn't changed to his satisfaction immediately, he will quit/sue everyone/explode, and or write a eye searingly misspelled review on his blog and x-post it to rec.alt.gaming, and all the MMO newsites as well, causing the downfall of civilization as we know it. Finally there is the uber-rare spawn, the rational poster who comes up with good ideas, that are well thought out, and take the game as a whole into consideration, not just their pet class of the week. Their posts are almost immediately lost amongst the howling of the insane, and soon dissapear into the void known only as "Page 2", because rationality, and logic isn't as fun to read as a flamewar between, say, HebrewBomb, and Nooblet.
Whenever I quit a game I send a friendly e-mail to the devs explaining why, and what I thought the game lacked. To date I've never recieved a response of any kind. They should at least send you some form mail, "Thanks for the input, however we don't value your opinion and we'll be sure to send you a couple e-mails a month inviting you back!".. you know anything to acknoledge that they even read ti.
Maybe a form letter with a pic of the dev's spending my payments on beer and wings at the nearby Hooters. At least then I'd have something other than a broken Ranger/Bounty Hunter/whatever to show for my time and money.
------- They panic, so... just hold them down I could live like this I'm closing in; hate all around I could be like this Hearing them; them in my head How can they be so sweet... sweet?
in my last post the point i was trying to make is that just because the devs aren't fixing the problems that you and or perhaps the million other users are pointing out isn't in most cases that they aren't listening - and i fully agree that many if not 95% of all good suggestions and ideas get lost in the forums of annoying -this and that sucks- posts - my first post i talked about being constructive - any intelligent person knows that what you say and most of what everyone else says in a forum -- official or not -- is going to be scanned over and might get read or read all the way through anyway -- im sure the good ones that get noticed are jotted down or saved and kept for later use - anyone in these forums that have worked in development should be fully aware that its the top dogs that make the final say so -- and alot of those guys are dicks -- so a dev who reads a really good post may take it to his boss or manager only to have him say - so what - and it can be frustrating - however im not saying its pointless to give your suggestions or complaints but i think that alot more could be done on our side to organize and become for effective in the way we get the message across - for example - if there is a major problem in the design of a game - then someone make a move to form an in-game revolt to show how serious you are- be more creative than just making a post or sending an email - do something that stands out -- its not the devs we should be trashing out at - shoot for the higher powers that have the funds to make something happen
Comments
thats exactly my point, the "grind" would be such a grind, if it were given a variety of ways to be achieved. But like I said in AO only 1 mob worth that much xp, and you get sick of killing them over and over. Before SL came out people at least did mission, there you just needed a good team, but with the hecks it's awful, players camp areas for spawns and will flame you like mad should you enter "thier territory" looking for kills...
Give me a variety of mobs, missions, redoable quests, even stupid things like races or unique crafting... hell even a special pvp quest or something... just make the grind monotonous...
I didn't get the full 2 weeks of my ac2 trial cause (A) I was a little busy and (B) they mob every told me to kill was camped to hell. You kill 1 mob to get a quest worth good xp, but I could spend 2 hours just looking for that mob only to have the team get bored of searching break up, then get another team and try again... AC2 is a nice game and decent story if you follow the warders quuests, but they need to increase xp from mobs (just a little) and decrease the difficulty OR increase hit rate, you miss so ofter even with mastery skills that some fights you could lose to a mob you normally murder. But so hard to find teams for some of the lower level quests that you can't do them as a result. Why?.. Cause they are all camping that first mob.... seriously... when I got to the teaming point for the bound fets quest thing, I discovered thats whereevery even near my lev was hanging out, and all doing the same damn thing...
Damn it, I make my own fun and i still got bored playing that game
my 2 cents
There have been some very intriguing posts and i love some of the ideas iv read - i think the point made about copying eq set a standard for the way mmo's are made and the grind is a grind and no other ways to go about it make the games boring for many after so much - is because of this -- these games most of them out there have been in development for so long you have to think three years back when the design for the game first started and a lot of these games have been out for a while now - so to mention time frame as a possible reason for the complaints about mmo's -- another issue is that this genre is in such an infant stage that developers with each mmo that passes are listening - but to change the way a system works in the game - a quest system for example - could be beyond the resources of the company - so instead of fixing these issues the developers are starting anew with the next best mmo and there next project - i believe that players should not complain about the problems with mmo's but play the games for what they are and come together to discuss and work for form better ways and new ideas for fixing or adding or redesigning - so construct don't complain --
Being contuctive is a great concept. However at the moment SoE is deleting "constructive" posts from thier forums to try and not let outsiders see flaws in the game... We are here complaining, not because we feel like bitching, but because majority of the distros have decided to not listen to our ideas on how to improve serious issues with thier games. So alot of designers tend to read the forums here in order to get an idea of what people don't want. I myself am currently designing an mmo and pay careful attention to what the people say they hate about games in these forums. It encourages me to target flawed areas of other games and try to develop dynamic ways to avoid those pitfalls. and so far.. so good. Just hope I can sell it when it's done
so people, by all means, rant and rave and bitch and complain about the games you play, cause I have't tried em all, and don't want to be like any of them
Your sig changed
Like the new one, too.
Anyway, the problem isn't that devs aren't listening, it's that they're not communicating their position on things very well, and the people they are listening to are the wrong ones, basically. I'll take a stab in the dark and say 85% of the players of any given game never set foot in the official forums. Basically there are four people posting there. People who quit, and are just trolling, saying how the game, and anyone whwo plays it sucks. People who say they are going to quit every five minutes, just as soon as game X comes out, and are just trolling to get attention. Then you have the Comic Book Guy poster. Writes longwinded posts about how and why the game sucks, and if it isn't changed to his satisfaction immediately, he will quit/sue everyone/explode, and or write a eye searingly misspelled review on his blog and x-post it to rec.alt.gaming, and all the MMO newsites as well, causing the downfall of civilization as we know it. Finally there is the uber-rare spawn, the rational poster who comes up with good ideas, that are well thought out, and take the game as a whole into consideration, not just their pet class of the week. Their posts are almost immediately lost amongst the howling of the insane, and soon dissapear into the void known only as "Page 2", because rationality, and logic isn't as fun to read as a flamewar between, say, HebrewBomb, and Nooblet.
-------
They panic, so... just hold them down
I could live like this
I'm closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them; them in my head
How can they be so sweet... sweet?
Maybe a form letter with a pic of the dev's spending my payments on beer and wings at the nearby Hooters. At least then I'd have something other than a broken Ranger/Bounty Hunter/whatever to show for my time and money.
-------
They panic, so... just hold them down
I could live like this
I'm closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them; them in my head
How can they be so sweet... sweet?
You got it exactly right Coldmeat, they are not listening to the good ones.
But I think MMORPG's mirror society in many ways, it is run by the very vocal minority, where as the silent majority just accept things.
Not saying any side is right or wrong.....just how things are imo.
I am one of those silent ones myself, I usually just cancel my account and move on instead of tolerating a terrible game, I think alot of us do.
BTW excellent posts on this thread, I have rarely read a thread right through, every word, beginning to end. Very good!!!