Originally posted by lkavadas In basically every MMO I play I always try and fit my character into a basic soldier role. Not some ultra special forces agent. No some secret assassin. The every man who gets up each morning, puts on his uniform, goes to work, and heads out on campaign on conflict erupts. Generally speaking I'm aligned with some faction (usually the bad guys, less children playing them) but nothing special. I do not want to be the saviour of the world. I don't want to marry a princess. I don't want to own a massive ship and terrorize the galaxy.
I just want to fill my role in the world. I want to lead other people and create a great community/guild. I want to PvP my enemy. I loved being a Stormtrooper in SWG before the NGE. If that's being a "peon" to you then by all means, could some dev please make me Peon Online?
I think this is what many of us want from a sandbox style MMO: to just be part of a world. Theme park MMOs place you in the role of a hero, yet, its really just an illusion since you do the exact same scripted quests as everyone else.
To your first point, I have to tell you, you CANNOT have your own personal storyline in an MMOG. You CANNOT "play a part" and have a major impact on the game world when there are thousands of other people playing the same game. Do you not see how this is contradictory?
To your second point ... well, it's basically the same as your first. You want a big game of D&D where the computer is the DM. This is not possible. Every branch of every storyline in an MMOG has to be written before you can experience it. If you want a game where you have free rein to steer every quest in multiple directions, the game is going to take an infinite amount of time to write. Can you wait infinity years? Most people get pissy when a game is delayed for three months. Basically what I'm saying is, computers cannot roleplay. If that is what you want, you might need to reconsider your priorities.
Actually, you CAN have your own personal storyline. At least, in the more player driven MMOs you can. As far as quests, yes, I do believe that some one will eventually come up with good ideas that solve both of my points. Will it be the same as PnP? No. But, it will be much more interesting than whats out there now. The Spellborn guys have some interesting ideas for quests and story telling (have to wait and see how that turns out) and I have no doubt that Bioware will do something unique with their MMO.
Im sorry, but whats out there right now is just awful, as far as questing goes. The term "theme park" really does hit the nail on the head.
You can't say something exists, and then point to a game that isn't out yet.
I ahve no idea why this is so mind blowing even in Starport, an Indie 2d mmo players can takeover the planet, kill all NPCs off for good, and make an impact. Even way back when they had MUD/BBS games where players were changing the universe for good
In eve with the next expansion players can pick a faction and then receive quests to go out and impact the universe
The stuff we talk bout here isn't mind blowing and its been here for a looooonnnnngggg time seriously. Tatum is a very nice and patient poster. Myself, I would have told you to go play more games (other then WoW plz)
Basically, yes, what Sovrath said. You cannot give personalized stories without instancing the entire game.....
Ah there, your definition of a personal storyline differs from Tatum/myself. When most sandboxer talk about a 'personal storyline' we are not talking bout some game developer scripted story.
We are talking about the true RPG experience of going out and making a difference in the game world itself. Change, Impact.
Example:
There was this mercenary guild in EVE Online that was hired by a corp to infiltrate a Corp and kill the CEO. That were also hired to steal/destroy the corp's assets. These hitman did what they were hired to do and made history costing the enemy corp billions in ISK. This was recorded as the most expensive heist to date.
Impact, change, their personal story arc
Granted, it most games this only happens through PVP where the sandbox toys allows this to take place but EVE/CCP has implemented similar toys for PVE. Albeit, there will be some player vs player interaction but its not required. It will be more of a side effect
Sandbox definition of change and story arc can occur as a result of the sandbox toys that is put it into the game that allows player goals to manifest
Linear definition that you discuss- whereas Game developer hardcodes (scripts) personal storylines
There is a communication breakdown here. You should elaborate on your definition and try not to presume we share your definition
Champions Online has a feature where you design your adversary that will haunt you throughout your career. I'm not sure on the fine details but this sounds like a PVE method to get a personalized storyline to happen. Nothing groundbreaking. Probably wont impact other players or the game world but I dunno might be interesting to see.
In my opinion, it depends on the game in question. I can say that I've played good/bad games for both systems. A game can be good or bad and in my opinion, the system used doesn't decide that.
WoW is obviously the largest MMO, and it's again obvious people are content on the system WoW has.
People don't want an open ended game. People are totally satisfied on following the "yellow brick road" as you haters put it. Again, I'd rather do that than walk around for hours attempting to find one quest NPC. There's no direction, there's no help, and progression.
Why do I hate these arguments. WoW has 10m subscribers so every mmo should be made like WoW!!!!!
Okay, now look at things from another angle. Zelda has many sales- should every game therefore be designed like Zelda? Answer, no. Because games are different, and can tap into different appeals. Games like Morrowind and Oblivion have their seperate appeals different than Zelda.
Comments
I think this is what many of us want from a sandbox style MMO: to just be part of a world. Theme park MMOs place you in the role of a hero, yet, its really just an illusion since you do the exact same scripted quests as everyone else.
Actually, you CAN have your own personal storyline. At least, in the more player driven MMOs you can. As far as quests, yes, I do believe that some one will eventually come up with good ideas that solve both of my points. Will it be the same as PnP? No. But, it will be much more interesting than whats out there now. The Spellborn guys have some interesting ideas for quests and story telling (have to wait and see how that turns out) and I have no doubt that Bioware will do something unique with their MMO.
Im sorry, but whats out there right now is just awful, as far as questing goes. The term "theme park" really does hit the nail on the head.
You can't say something exists, and then point to a game that isn't out yet.
I ahve no idea why this is so mind blowing even in Starport, an Indie 2d mmo players can takeover the planet, kill all NPCs off for good, and make an impact. Even way back when they had MUD/BBS games where players were changing the universe for good
In eve with the next expansion players can pick a faction and then receive quests to go out and impact the universe
The stuff we talk bout here isn't mind blowing and its been here for a looooonnnnngggg time seriously. Tatum is a very nice and patient poster. Myself, I would have told you to go play more games (other then WoW plz)
We are talking about the true RPG experience of going out and making a difference in the game world itself. Change, Impact.
Example:
There was this mercenary guild in EVE Online that was hired by a corp to infiltrate a Corp and kill the CEO. That were also hired to steal/destroy the corp's assets. These hitman did what they were hired to do and made history costing the enemy corp billions in ISK. This was recorded as the most expensive heist to date.
Impact, change, their personal story arc
Granted, it most games this only happens through PVP where the sandbox toys allows this to take place but EVE/CCP has implemented similar toys for PVE. Albeit, there will be some player vs player interaction but its not required. It will be more of a side effect
Sandbox definition of change and story arc can occur as a result of the sandbox toys that is put it into the game that allows player goals to manifest
Linear definition that you discuss- whereas Game developer hardcodes (scripts) personal storylines
There is a communication breakdown here. You should elaborate on your definition and try not to presume we share your definition
http://www.champions-online.com/game_features
Champions Online has a feature where you design your adversary that will haunt you throughout your career. I'm not sure on the fine details but this sounds like a PVE method to get a personalized storyline to happen. Nothing groundbreaking. Probably wont impact other players or the game world but I dunno might be interesting to see.
In my opinion, it depends on the game in question. I can say that I've played good/bad games for both systems. A game can be good or bad and in my opinion, the system used doesn't decide that.
Why do I hate these arguments. WoW has 10m subscribers so every mmo should be made like WoW!!!!!
Okay, now look at things from another angle. Zelda has many sales- should every game therefore be designed like Zelda? Answer, no. Because games are different, and can tap into different appeals. Games like Morrowind and Oblivion have their seperate appeals different than Zelda.