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NO OPEN WORLD IN AOC!!!!
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Again with these posts?
Age of Conan...typical MMo where you sacrifice ONE WORLD ONE SERVER for stability and choice of 100 servers and instancing..... so the game can be played, rofl
This thread is so funny, we all are on the same page, we are all in agreement in wanting everybody to be together in an MMO in a seamless world at same time..but sadly it just doesn't work that way
This is the best solution the developers can come up with...INSTANCING and 100 severs to choose from
I just wonder if the day will ever come where some geek will figure it all out and allow everybody to play together at same time in the same zone on the same freaking server
sigh, i won't be holding my breath
Usually a new instance of a zone occurs when there is too much load (toons) in the existing instance. So, I was wondering if anyone had an idea how many toons have to be in an instanced zone before it is considered full.
You can basically use some command like /who to get a count of players in the instance.
Anyhow, if the count of players in a full instance is low, that would seriously affect me playing the game. I like a lot of interaction in the game.
As well, I'd like to see city zones, somewhat like Guild Wars, where there is only a single instance. When I walk into a city, I expect to see lots of people about, and not a ghost town.
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because same for me,
Ive seen no one in an dungeon instance in the outside world
EQ2 fan sites
This is getting so old...
1) First of all arguing symantics over whether AoC can be called an MMORPG is completely stupid, and it's not even what your really arguing. What your arguing is whether or not AoC satisfies what YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL want from and MMORPG. Of course you'll never argue that because you know arguing personal taste is pointless. Using symantics to re-state your opinion as fact, does not make it more than your opinon.
Bottum line: AoC is an Online RPG, where thousands of players play in thesame game at the same time, it is clearly by definition and MMORPG. You don't like the way it accomplishes this, and that's fine. Personally I HATED Everquest because I found the world stale and lifeless, so I didn't play for very long, but I also didn't go online and flame everyone who didn't agree with me because my opinion about the game was indisputable fact.
2) There is no game on the market today in which you will see more people in one place than you will see in Age of Conan. You will NEVER is WoW see as the OP put it, "Everyone on the server is one place at one time" never... NEVER EVER will you see this. EVERY MMORPG IN EXISTANCE has technical limitation on how how many players it can have in one place at one time. The only thing instancing in AoC does to set a control to prevent that limit from ever being exceeded so called "Open World" simply suffer performance degradation and eventual crash. I fail to see how instances break immersion any more than the game ceasing to function properly upon entering and overcrowded area.
3) Do people realize that we're talking about 3 or 4 instances of popular zones during peak hours? In no way is it you and your group. It's you, yor group, and tons of other players, which again renders the entire "This can't be called and MMORPG" arguement ridiculous, and there are enough people in any one instance to justify the title. My guess is that a lot of people see the word "instance" and immediately go into convulsions of rage without having any real idea how instances are utilized in AoC.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
The main zones after Tortage are huge and i've never seen more than one instance for them. There are some smaller zones that have instances but it's not like you don't see people. There are players everywhere and the game really feels alive. You are free to switch and go wherever you want, but most of the gameplay after 20 has extremely large zones that aren't instanced. This is a similar style to tons of MMO's, but yes it is different then WoW. This isn't WoW. This isn't an open world MMO. This information has been around forever.
They have indoor adventure areas like the Cannibal Caves and the Black Temple that anyone can go into, and aren't too tough for a single player to clear through.
They have character specific instances where quests are accomplished like the Bubshur House and the Ice Cave. These won't respawn and players will have to be in your group to enter. Generally you need the quests before they even let you inside.
They also have instanced zones/raids meant to challenge a full party/raids of adventurers. I assume they probably work much like WoW but I didn't have a chance to see any.
P.S. This is in response to Nadia.
because same for me,
Ive seen no one in an dungeon instance in the outside world
There are a few dungeon type zones that are not individual player/group instances and many that are.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
As it hasn't been 20 of these threads already. I wonder if people still write threads in EQ2 forum with a topic like this. I wonder when it get's old?!?!
Don't get me wrong, I understand the issue you are talking about but there is tons of these complaints about the instancing, and most people talks about it as if it was a new thing.
Ok, this game is NOT WoW, thankfully! People should stop complaining because it isn't exactly like WoW. The areas are broken up into multiple instances (much like EQ2 and TR) to prevent massive lag that would be there from hundreds of thousands of potential simultaneous players. The game would just lag out and drop if it were an "open world". And it uses "zoning" for a similar reason. There is just too much data and too many players to be in a single continuous world.
Now, Warcraft can do this for one main reason: their technical quality is outrageously sub-standard. Their characters are extremely low-poly and their textures are very low-res. So the data both takes up little room and takes little time to load. They can therefor "stream" in the content as needed when the player crosses a geographical threshold. With AoC's visual quality alone, this is NOT possible. And I'm not sure of the number of max players per server in AoC, but because they use this instancing formula, I would imagine it's higher than the few hundred you can have in a WoW server (before queues set in).
As for the dungeons, there aren't many MMOs at ALL that don't instance them in some way (except perhaps EQ1). Technology, quality, and gameplay almost require dungeons to be instanced in some way to prevent overpopulation and players standing around screaming because the creature they need for their quest has been camped for 2 days straight by other players/guilds (EQ1 anyone remember?).
Ultimately it comes down to the question: is the game fun for you? If it is, then play it. If it's not, then move on to something else or go play your previous game again. I would, however, give anyone playing this game the advice to get a bit past level 20 to experience the gameplay beyond Tortage (which is meant to be an introduction to the game). If anyone remembers, the first 20 levels that encompass Tortage were originally meant to be single-player until the testers begged for them to include other newbies in the experience from day 1.
As a lurker the fact it is instanced gives me some promise that the gameplay won't be shallow. As for immersion I will be looking for good mob group AI, projectiles that don't go through scenery or home in, the ability to jump and climb, and a character that doesn't look like it is made out of lego.
If you hated zones in EQ2, you won't like this game, no matter what the size of the zones is.
I guess it's worth a buy, just to see the glorious eye candy, but I see no real need to subscribe after the free month.
It's not only the technical side -- instancing provides far better game design possibilities than to struggle with an open world concept. From storytelling to level design it solves a ton of problems -- in addition to the higher graphic quality, the varity in probs, textures etc. it provides a better experience and a higher degree of immersion than an unrealistic open world.
I only read the first page of posts, so my reply is in regards to them... But I think you all need to stop QQing and just play the game or don't play the damn game. Everyone complains about stupid things that you can fix or solve within 20 secs. If you seriously can't take a 15 sec loading screen just to play with your friend than don't play with him. These things are here for a reason, to enhance our gameplay and instead of looking for every minor detail you dislike you should just be playing it and taking it for what it is. The only REAL issue with the game IMHO is the fact that you can kill some1 next to a rez spot and then oneshot them without using a combo the second they spawn. Personally, I feel you should be given 30 secs or until a hostile action is taken to be attack by players when you zone and rez. But regardless, if you can't click an arrow and cordinate with your friends what instance server to play on then you shouldn't play the game. I just find it funny how so many things people complain about are the ones put into the game to enhance their gameplay.
In terms of gameplay (not zone size), you'll need to zone every 10-20 minutes in the Tortage starter area and every 2-4 hours in the rest of the game areas (excluding the race cities which follow the Tortage pattern). On average.
The open zones in AoC (think Barrens) are considerably larger in WoW. Let me explain how AoC is structured in WoW terms:
Ok... first of all you can't define Tortage in WoW terms. At all. Did you ever play DDO? Tortage is almost exactly like DDO (with about as much content, but I digress). You have to be at least level 19 to get the quest to leave Tortage. A lof of (mandatory) content on Tortage is solo content.
Once you leave Tortage you begin in your racial hub (think Orgrimaar/Ironforge/Thunderbluff etc). Now each racial hub has an open questing zone immdiately outside of it (like the Barrens). These zones run levels 20-40 and are huge (bigger than the barrens and considerably less flat). Now here's the trick: You can not simple run from Thunderbluff through the Barrens to Orgrimaar. Basically, if your in Thunderbluff and want to go to Orgimaar you go find the NPC that runs the Caravan to Orgrimaar and talk to him, then the game reloads and you spawn in Orgrimaar. Now you want to go to The Barrens and kill stuff, so again you go to The Barrens NPC and tell him you want to go to the Barrens, the game reloads and you spawn at the Crossroads. Beyond that it's really not fundementally that diffrent.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
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Looking forward to: Star Citizen
I would say that is a fair estimation, but once leveling slows down, you'll find yourself rarely zoning during a play session unless you are invited into one of the party dungeons. Even then, you wouldn't be exposed to more zoning than you would playing WoW. With only a single zone to satisfy the content requirement from level 40 to 50 and then 50 to 60 you won't find yourself zoning at all for entire play sessions. (40-50 does have the Noble District as well, but is more of a mini-zone really that is used mostly for AoE grinding). Really the only exception to this is the Destiny quest chain which sent me back from Cimmeria to Stygia and back and forth again. I think I used 20 to 30 stamina potions.
Biggest crap I have ever seen.More then 50 people in a city and even your 9800GTS cards stop functioning. Instancing .
Ah, so now its 50 people that cause your system to hang.......before it was only "a handful" that was causing serious issues for you.
Wow, keep going zorf. I think you're nailing what the issue is here.....you're simplification of the truth in order to suit your argument.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
i came directly from wow to aoc. im only lvl 17, and still in the starter area, tortage, so thats where my perspective will come from.
first i want to differentiaite between types of zones. there are what i call 'public zones', where you see other players running around, and 'private zones', where its just you and/or your group (think barrens as the public zone, wailing caverns as the private zone). the starter public zone includes a city, and surrounding area, and has appendige public zones in it. as for size, just in terms of how long it takes to get from one end to the other, the city of tortage is roughly the size of the main part of orgrimmar, but it has some alley ways and what not to navigate, so it seems more intricate than the open bowl design of orgrimmar.
the overall zone, if you include the appendage zones, is roughly the size of durator (the WoW zone around org),perhaps a little smaller. you always see other players running around, and if you go into an appendage zone, say acheron ruins, there are other players in there as well. imagine it this way, in durator you have to go into the ravine and kill harpies, the ravine is a zone, with other players in it, but the whole surrounding area is open. i hear that the zones after the start area are larger, much larger.
so in the start area, the zones arent huge, but they are big enough for what they are (a start zone). i also thought that the zoning would put me off. i realized, that in WoW the openness was as much in my head as in the game. yea im in the ravine klling harpies, but its completely surrounded by cliffs, not really open, theres only one way in or out, so it is essentially its own zone. i never ran from zone to zone, always took a flight, so in the end, what difference was it really that i zoned in or alt-tabbed during a flight? gameplay elements have all been better, imho. the combat system is a lot of fun, it keeps your attention. you cant just smack a guy in the head forever, he'll defend himself and you wont do any damage, you have to change it up. so even 'grinding' mobs is far less tedious, as you have to pay a little attention to what you are doing.
like i said, i can only give the impression of someone who is still in the start area, but coming from WoW to AoC, the zoning has been a complete non-issue. hope my long post has been of some help.
Blizzard was more clever and achieved a better technical balance when it comes to resource utilization. Part of this is using a graphic style that doesn't require tons of high resolution textures and polygons to look great. I'd call the end result, achieving a better balance between visual quality, framerate and general performance, a higher technical quality, myself.
There's also the fact that during AoC development, artists and world designers were essentially left alone doing about whatever they wanted for something like three years into the project. It was only at that point, as the original projected release date loomed closer, that the question of optimizing the loading times, client size and performances arose.
A lots of meetings were had, and a lot of solutions were envisioned that were difficult to implement because it largely involved artists being more disciplined in their texture utilization, sharing of textures between things (using atlases etc).
The problem is that it's pretty difficult to do all those things AFTER the bulk of the assets were already made.
There's also the fact that early versions of cheetah REQUIRED about everything to have both a diffuse map and a normal map, which was pretty wasteful given that many things don't really need the later.
Anyway, the "let's crank up texture resolutions and polygons" approach of achieving a better graphical quality is misleading, especially when you're doing a game set in a universe as visually uninteresting as conan's. I was flying through northrend on the sandboxed leaked wotlk client yesterday, and I found the place much more enthralling than anything I've seen in conan (and the graphics generally looks more cleanly executed in wow, too). But I concede that it's largely subjective.
I prefer to be on a realm (or dimension in funcom's lingo) with a maximum of a few hundred players with the guarantee that we'll always share the same world, rather than one that pretend to be one single world but is actually several parallel ones.
The end result is the same, except in the former case (the one that works like WoW), you get more consistency. If someone says that your nemesis that you absolutely want to corpse camp to oblivion was spotted at place xyz, you can go there and find the guy.
In the second case, you effectively only share the world with a few hundred other players as well, only never the same ones. How is that better?
I'm fine with instancing when it's done solely for gameplay purpose (as in WoW). Instancing for performance reasons, or to pretend that you can have a shitload of players on the same realm, is a poor trade off.
Yet such things are very anecdotal in WoW, and mostly only happen when new content is released and everyone is gang raping it.
That, and having one entire instance of tortage complete with its own NPCs and stuff for each player turned out to cost too much server resources.
Do you ever get tired of compaining over the same thing ? Where did you buy a 9800gt"S" card ?
Look around you. Everyone is comparing AoC to WoW.. Maybe it isnt mentioned by name, but its prette clear that people are thinking of WoW, when you red their arguments for AoC beeing bad.
Except that the OP isn't "everyone", and they did not make any comparisons to WoW in their post. People are responding to the OP, not to "everyone" who's ever posted before.
The OP specifically addressed AoC and only AoC.
Someone several posts later brought WoW into it. I'd wager they didn't have any constructive counter-arguments to make, but they couldn't let a negative opinion of a game they personally like stand unchallenged... it would violate some cosmic, karmic law or something I suppose. Sooo, they pull WoW out of thin air, and then proceed to group the OP with "people who want it to be like WoW" and, thus, attempts to disqualify their arguments.
Wrong...
The OP said nothing about WoW.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Another one pulling WoW out of thin air...
Please show me where in the OP, WoW is invoked as how they want the game to be?
Amazing... WoW is like the wildcard argument against everything now.
Complaint: "I don't like the game 'cause there's not enough areas"
Reply: "It's not like WoW! People need to stop thinking it's like WoW!"
Complaint: "I don't like the graphics style, and the armors don't look right"
Reply: "It's not WoW! Stop expecting it to look like WoW!"
Complaint: "The game has too much instancing"
Reply: "It's not like WoW! I wish people would stop comparing it to WoW!"
Complaint: "My child won't eat their vegetables!"
Reply: "Your children are not like WoW! Stop comparing them to WoW!"
Complaint: "My car won't turn over, and I'm late for work"
Reply: "Stop comparing your car to WoW! It's not using the same engine!"
Yes... I'm being facetious.. but it gets the point across.
Seriously... can people at least start addressing the arguments people are actually making, and stop invoking WoW to give themselves something to argue against? Not every argument being made is automatically linked to Blizzard's game. Some arguments - like the OP's - are clearly made on their own merit, without comparison.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Oh, goddamnit... Of course everyone is comparing AoC to WoW.
As long as WoW is the 300 pound gorilla with 60% of the MMO market, every released MMO is going to be compared to it. And every released MMO is going to borrow many things from WoW too. Get used to it. Stop pretending that WoW doesn't exist or that it's somehow a lesser, cheaper product just because it's popular.
AoC is going to have its success and worthiness measured against WoW, whether you like it or not.
It's going to be defined, described, reviewed and judged in terms of how it differs from wow.
Any good feature (like the open world) that WoW had that isn't present in AoC is a bad point for AoC, period - no matter how much fanboys rationalize that not having that feature is somehow better.