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I got banned for this
sleeptrain
Member Posts: 5
Below is what I posted on the aoc forums...
I'd just like to say that I like this game besides all the obvious quality issues. I deeply respect the software engineers that dedicate their lives to making ours more enjoyable. I know this isn't necessarily your fault.
Let me tell you what is unacceptable in any market and warrants an immediate return to vendor.
-Misrepresentation
-Defects
But guess what, it's software. Lets bring up the facts about that.
-Cannot return software once opened.
-Software company is not accountable for retail policies/laws.
-Consumer responsibility is snuffed out because the majority is getting used to receiving this type of product.
This is not okay at all. I understand developing an mmo is quite the task, but this has become a slippery slope.
If you, as consumers, continue to accept these facts, it will only get worse.
If you go to buy a car and it doesn't have a steering wheel, you can see it and say, "hey this car is incomplete, I'm not buying it." With software, you're forced to take the companies word for it that you're buying a quality product that is complete to the best of their ability. If it's a game you don't like, that's the risk you take as the consumer.
Corporate accountability, and consumer responsibility are to blame.
Company: Don't try and make excuses for releasing an unfinished game, when you're focusing on making a release date for financial purposes. You're not fooling anyone. Stop exploiting the fact that people can't return opened software. We're not paying to further beta test your game.
Consumer: If you are fine with a game that is unfinished and full of issues, you are the problem. Normal people expect a quality product. Don't try and pull the "I love this game dont worry they'll fix stuff" card, cause it has nothing to do with it. It is pretty silly to expect a game to be perfect, but to run into several very obvious bugs just in the first few days of playing is unacceptable.
Acceptable on launch
-Uncommon variables causing a defect
Not acceptable
-Obvious issues that everyone experiences.
-Product misrepresentation ("Don't worry, we'll fix it at some point!" could be months or years!)
So basically, if you were a QA tester for a game and played it through, you would HAVE to notice these things and realize they need to be fixed before you can give it your stamp of approval. (Again, pressure to release the product can affect this type of thing.)
To the management of these companies: Stop ruining the credibility of your industry. Have some honor and take pride in your work. If you produce a quality product, you will deserve the financial gain. If you don't care that you produced and put your name on something of poor quality for financial gain, you are a bad person and the world could do without you. It's true that consumers these days are complacent and/or restricted when it comes to fighting back, but have some honor and don't exploit this. Everyone needs a paycheck, but you're taking someone else's.
To the customer: Stop letting companies like this take advantage of you. If you allow this behavior and standard of quality to continue, you'll only suffer more in the long run as it becomes more acceptable. Sacrifice a little for a greater good. You already pay taxes to fund who knows what, you get random fines and fees which aren't ever mentioned or explained. You spend half your paycheck just so you can insure your car and put gas in it to be able to make some money back again. You can't really do much about these things. You already have a lot to worry about in life, and getting away from your busy day to do something about this type of problem is completely unfeasible for most people. This is not about a game, it's about the quality of products and services degrading in general, and corporate responsibility. You can choose to do something about THIS since you are the one in control. Demand higher quality, force returns on retailers, petition, contact government officials. This kind of unchecked accountability is exactly what is rotting our country inside-out.
This is what you can try. Return it. The release version is a defective product and is misrepresented. Make them finish the game and buy it again when it's complete.
I'm sure I'll get banned or censored for something, but a few of you might see it and appreciate my motivation for this drawn out oratory.
Comments
reason you cant take back an mmo is because activation key would have been used up
anyway post was probably delted because it was considerd trolling.
same thing happend to me in the wow forums. i made a topic saying some things that i disliked about the game and way. and then they banned me from the forum...i was unbanned 2 months later ( after i had cancelled my account)
Rebellion much? Of course they banned you, and there's lots of us who don't mind a few issues and are enjoying ourselves. No need to sacrifice for the greater good as you say, I'm no saint..
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'Cry Havoc, and Let Loose the Dogs of WARRRRR!!!'
After Vanguard fiasco, I think hat many companies have seriously reconsidered their release quality and schedules.
I am amazed that Funcom seem to be one of the few to ignore the new 'expected standards' in MMO releases.
Either they are hoping to get away with it or they just don't care about their customers, either way they are living in the past.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Obviously you are a newbie when it comes to MMO's. It's always like that , you cant compare a mass produced item like a car to a mmo. A MMO is never finished, there's always bugs and issues, if you can't live with that, i suggest you buy yourself a game console (xbox, playstation) and stick with that.
the point is not whether you enjoy the game, but the fact that a lot of people cant because of quality issues and the fact that there arent standards anymore.
way to miss the point aguitha
Sorry for that...
they cant ban me..i dont use funcom forums and i dont play aoc anymore...
i'm not sure what country you live in, but in Australia, your right to return faulty goods is enshrined in statute, meaning that companies can CLAIM you can't take it back, but if you can show the product is faulty, they HAVE to refund.
i suggest you contact your local consumer protection agency.
Your points are valid and correct, but I am afraid the negatives are simply the nature of the beast. You can rely on most consumers to keep the market on the right track in most industies, but MMOs are a different animal entirely. This fact reflects back on a large portion of the playerbases that lack the required personal qualities needed to generate a dependable market. Read through a forum of your choice on this website and absorb the ridiculousness; then ask again why companies are able to get away with current practices.
Rapetrain, you should know it's always been this way. From the days of UO and EQ. It's rather naive to think you can change it.
They warned me for saying "lol macs" after argumenting why i laugh at macs, that was my last post on their forums.
Umm what exactly did they misrepresent? Lots of complaining in that post and no facts.
I got banned from AoC as well... for asking if it's ok to sell the game.
Here is what my screen says when I go there...
You have been banned due to infractions.
Date the ban will be lifted: November 20th, 2008, 02:02 PM
LOL.
Some guys are wearing big shoes, or so it seems.
the release copy was advertised as a game complete with such and such features which were not included, and theres no guarantee we'll ever see them now that they have everyone by the balls. if you take the release version of the game out of the box with no updates, its absolute fail. You dont advertise things that arent implimented yet, thats why its misrepresentation.
So you argue that you should rely on consumers to keep the market on the right track but then fault the SWG vets for doing just that? You should be thanking us.
So you argue that you should rely on consumers to keep the market on the right track but then fault the SWG vets for doing just that? You should be thanking us.
I was addressing a point he made in his post. He suggested that consumers should take responsiblity for correcting sloppy business practices. I merely pointed out that the atmosphere in the MMO community makes this a near impossibility. What SOE did was an epic blunder that needed no assistance from anyone to destroy the game -- not from the players, nor governmental regulation. The vets didnt one day get together and decide they would take a moral stand against the evil SOE and give up the game they loved so dearly...The NGE was for the most part unplayable, and staying to play it would have been the sacrifice...It is a separate issue than the one being discussed here. Companies are able to release unfinished games time and time again because the population accepts it simply to play the game earlier.
And dont try and portray yourself as the spokesman of the SWG vets. Consumers being responsible and policing the industry is a far cry from developing an unhealthy obsession and then becoming completely incapable of letting it go. The overwhelming majority of players who enjoyed the game and where then railroaded by SOE have since moved on. Its over...you can come out from under the desk now.
Then go sue adobe, micrsoft, apple, ibm, and Blizzard too. czu they all release unfinish product. There is no games or software release without any issue. There is something call update, expansion, and etc.
Funcom was scheduled to release a Long time ago, they waited, and as a result, they have one of the most 'functioning' Release-MMO's on the market. I've never played a release MMO that didnt have issues that someone somewhere turned into the dinosaur comet or the godly apocalypse.
So the game has problems, did you EVER play an MMO on release? Not joking, seriously, have you? I have played a Lot of MMO's on release, and I can't ever remember seeing a problem that even made me consider quitting, muchless to complain about.
As far as MMO release standards go, AoC took the high road, i'm sure everyone has their own opinion to this but the facts Really are hard to ignore... count how much % of clients crash, freeze, bluescreen, count how many client's encounter specific bugs, and I'm sure in terms of %, there would be a lot less than the last 5 years of Paid U.S. MMO releases.
Oh, and for the record? When I played Vanguard on release, I used the same comp I have now and I couldnt get more than 10fps Anywhere on Any settings, but in AoC I can have 100+ fps with everything low/disabled except the sliders, around 20-30fps with certain things turned up or down, lol on the same comp!
Also, in Vanguard, I fell through the floor, I lost UI parts, and a whole suit of other issues I had.
I've yet to experience any bad issues in AoC.. maybe i'm lucky? or maybe the 5% of the population that feels the hurt, is crying in pain? who knows
All i know is, when someone doesnt have an issue, they dont come to the forums and express themselves in new threads.
So it's safe to assume that a higher % of the people experiencing issues are in forums, as opposed to a lower % of people experience no issues that are in the forums.
Those with a cause, always speak the loudest. Unfortunately, they're often the first to throw the tomato and attempt to proclaim that 'the rest of the country feels the same way as we do' which i often guess is most untrue.
"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
With AoC it's not just small issues/bugs, it's actual total lack of content that should have been there, not bugs with content that has been implemented..
Returning any other product, gives the company to let it get restored, or sell it again, or whichever. You can't restore an MMO retail box, nor can you sell it again.
If the game has bugs, wait till they get fixed, think you can do better? Do it yourself!
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
If theres 700k people, and 10 a day say something that could lead their customers elsewhere, why not ban them? hell it's only $150 a month you lose. well.. per day that you ban 10 that is lol
"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
the release copy was advertised as a game complete with such and such features which were not included, and theres no guarantee we'll ever see them now that they have everyone by the balls. if you take the release version of the game out of the box with no updates, its absolute fail. You dont advertise things that arent implimented yet, thats why its misrepresentation.
Looks like PC gaming is not for you. May I suggest the wonderful world of console gaming?
Also, a free month to play and see if the game sucks is not having you "by the balls". If they made you sub for the first month then perhaps. Wasting your money throwing it at a PC game expecting it to be working right out of the box as intended shows you don't understand the industry or the format at all and can see why you're so easily confused and angered. A ton of people understand that this is why PC gaming as a whole will be on the further decline while console gaming will continue to rise. Looks like you might be finding yourself in their camp.
Too many unique system configurations out there in the PC gaming world. This will never change. Games have to be patched and updated at, or as soon as possible close to release as a matter of necessity. No amount of feet stomping, flowing of tears or barking at the moon will change this.
Your best bet is to just hold on to your dough next time. Wait awhile until the game has been out and all the bugs are squashed and promised features are implemented. If you can't handle that, at least keep the bedroom revolutions confined to your own mind, and spare us the diatribe of why you feel betrayed. We read these kinds of posts on every video game made for the PC released for the greater part of the last 10 years and nothing changes.
As a consumer it's your responsibility where you spend your money. You gave them money knowing damn well that they would have to patch and update their game after release simply due to the nature of the platform it's distributed on. Anything above and beyond that is your fault for being irresponsible with your money funding something that you are against. That makes no sense as it would have been more prudent on your part to wait awhile then make a better informed decision about where to spend your money.
The fact that you don't respect yourself enough to do this and are so eager to jump up in the air bouncing up and down with the declaration of consumer rights in your hands screaming about injustice makes me agree with other posters here on your credulousness.
Have a good time in life believing what people tell you and getting into an uproar every time you let yourself be mocked and finagled.
I'm not sure what you are talking about OP. I'm playing the game, it appears to "mostly" work, (which is an acceptable level of quality in the software world), I've yet to hit a single gamebreaking bug and I'll go further to guess that the game mostly works for most people.
Hence, no fraud, no foul. A great majority of the people who are having issues is due to quirks and irregularities in their systems, hence the reason why they can't play, yet most other folks can. Now, if no one could play due to some game breaking issues, that would be a breach of faith, but that's clearly not the case here in AOC.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean is there actually people believe that there is a bug free mmo game out there? without glitches , loopholes etc...? I mean seriously accept the fact you won't find any.
Anyway when it comes to game companies there is none which is better than the others all is the same.
Complaining usally leads to nothing... I mean if you dont' like a game shift to another which has less annoying bugs instead of being grumpy on the game it won't change.
As for getting banned it's fairly easy especially if you got a loud mouth and do some wrong moves.
The concept of returning goods must be related to consumption. Consider going to a restaurant. You order a meal, take one bite out of the burger and then say "hey, I said no mustard... take it back and give me what I want". Easy for them to do that. But if you ate 90% of the burger, then complained, well... questionable.
So consider computer games. You buy that adventure game, load it up, and play. My son can blast thru most single player games in a day or so. (Takes me a good weekend and maybe off and on thru a week of evenings sometimes). Anyway, the point is, for my son to return such a game after a day or so wouldn't be right, because he has consumed the entire product. Now if it didn't work at all, and such a fact could be shown to the retailer, then most retailers will take the product back. If there is zero consumption, then sure, retailer should take it back.
But what about MMOs? They are billed to take months to consume. They are even set up as a subscription service. If they don't work, then it should be easy enough for them to take it back. I think the genre should move to a subscription-only model. I mean, that's the whole point isn't it? From the business's point of view? To get people paying x/month for a service, instead of selling a one-time use piece of software that can be pirated and stolen? It's not like consumers can still play if they cancel can they? As long as the business stops any pirated server activity, they loose nothing.
But then one could say: there is no initial cost... you are just paying 40 for the first month, and 15/month thereafter. When that first 40 goes down to 20 or even 15, then it will feel better for them to say "you don't like the service? then just cancel the service".... like getting a phone or something.
So while it's true that consumers should not continue to accept faulty products, the genre is more of a service than a product, with an initial setup fee, (that is kind of high compared to the monthly rate, relative to other services in the world). But it's still really a service and not a product purchase at the root of it all...