AoC actually got me to go order the CE edition of War after I canceled. The plan was to AoC until Christmas then buy War, but the game just isn't as polished and worth the coin every month for me at least. Yeah it's nice and has potential but I can't see the sense of paying until it's potential. I've been watching War waay before AoC and from every piece of info I've seen it's going to be a better game.
People say it failed to deliver, like it has a lack of end game content, but they have already said they are going to start putting that in like next month. So its not like they just didnt do it, they are doing it, its just taking time.
Just like WoW when end game was just normal group instances at launch, and it was hella buggy and had problems and all that jazz, but people for some reason ignore that, or, they just dont know about it because most of the people in WoW dont know anything about MMORPGS and played it after it got polished because its such a simple game to play that players tell friends to come play, so you get ex-halo fans playing WoW.
These non experienced WoW players came to AoC and whined about it being crap and they quit and post negative info about it because they are comparing a polished MMO thats been out for years to one thats been out for a month, not understanding that WoW was crap at launch as well, and most MMO's are like that anyway.
So Warhammer is going to be the same, its going to have some flaws and bugs and whatever in it, and WoW players will say its crap and post negative comments about it, leading to false information about it having a bad launch circulating around these exact type of threads(which is apparently the majority of the players of the game) when really, it would probably have a successfull launch and be a good game.
Edit: Also, heres a good example, before AoC came out, all over forums i saw people all for it, paying out WAR and saying its a clone of WoW and there was all this hype for it, now its out, all i ever see is how awful conan is, and how awesome WAR will be.
Well from what beta testers have told me its amazing and gets better and better every patch.
From what I have seen of beta I am unimpressed, and the general opinions seems to be the same. I know it is hard to accept negative critisim for something you want to like, but sometimes the truth is the best. I say this even though I actually like AoC and even though I will be playing Warhammer online.
AoC had a fairly good release, though there are huge problems. A lot of feats are broken, itemization is virtualally non-existant, and at lot of end game is not ready yet. But after after all that I am still playing and enjoying the game. Pvp is fine, the storyline is pretty damn good, and I see potential.
War has a lot of heat under itself, AoC is getting time to polish. Do I think WAR will do better? Yes, actually, I do. Well, to be more correct, I think it has a better chance. Whatever you may say about WAR the simple truth is it has a -lot- of WoW appeal and that will garner it many fans who might not know the world or story.
The ultimate truth? WAR is just another mmorpg from another company.. they all promise things. None of you know if WAR will do better than AoC. The simple fact is it can fall flat on it's face. MMORPG's are a huge undertaking, even for a company that has done it before and is a bit more prepared. The simple fact will be WAR's release, if the game is not instantly fun and if there are more than a few minor problems, the game will very likely sink. One thing that helps other mmorpg is that most of it's fan base are previous mmorpg players. WAR will get a lot of players whose first mmorpg was WoW during it's prime, and they have a very strong vocal influence that will destroy the game if it is not top notch at release.
Us experienced players know most mmoprgs do not release top notch...so we will see how it turns out.
Oh, and even though EA is their publisher they can still have financial problems. I have heard the same rumors and though unlikely it is possible. Even companies like EA are extremely stingy with their money and either give "allowances" per milestone or feel the game can not be completed and save themselves whatever amount that can.
i disagree 100% with your statement regarding WAR that it " might fall flat on its face"
the truth is ... regardless if the game sucks or not .. it will have the biggest release $$$ numbers out of any MMO to date .. yes even wow ...
it already has close to 1 million poised to buy the pre-release ...
will it eventually match wow in sub numbers? that i do not know .. wow has gotten to be huge ..
the real question with WAR is .. will it be able to HOLD its HUGE release subscription base?
The Devs at Mythic are well aware of what they need to do to capture and hold a customer base. They know what they need to do in beta and they obviously are not rushing the product to retail.
I think overall we are going to see a well polished, stable game on launch. Heck its pretty much already there with the exception of only a few things.
Sure there will be a few bugs, nothing major though.
All I have to say is be ready because I think we are going to see a very successful game.
Edit: May not mean much but I was in the beta for AoC and WAR. The beta for War is at this point more polished then AOC is now. Without breaking the NDA I think it's safe to assume WAR will do MUCH better then AOC.
"it already has close to 1 million poised to buy the pre-release ..."
While I'm expecting WAR to reach 1 million this is just nowhere based in fact. I think you're confusing people signing up for a free beta with people buying prerelease which is totally not a 1 to 1 relationship.
"it already has close to 1 million poised to buy the pre-release ..."
While I'm expecting WAR to reach 1 million this is just nowhere based in fact. I think you're confusing people signing up for a free beta with people buying prerelease which is totally not a 1 to 1 relationship.
Id be willing to bet however with the failure that is AoC, it will actually raise peoples hopes for Warhammer, youd be suprised but people will eat rat when theres nothing else......................
well i was dissapointed with AoC i do not think it was a faliure...its has many subs from what Would have been considered pre-WoW and its huge numbers meaning that for the average MMO it is doing well and has a good fan base....
However do i think WAR will hit 1 million players...yes Two million players.....yes it might and so on....
WAR will be a sucess in my mind as long as they keep enough subs to run their servers and have enough people to make RvR fun...
Asking if it will be better is really a personal opinion thing. If the question will WAR do better than AoC then I'd have to be cautiously optomistic and say yes.
I was pretty surprised to see AoC do what it did and release in such bad shape. One would think they had seen what happened to games like Vanguard, Tabula Rasa ect. Based on the pre-release activity it seems like thier goal was mainly to boost box sales so they can just recover as much of the development cost as they could.
One thing is true though all these bad game releases don't really help anyone at least not in the MMO industry. As much as people like to rip on WoW it's probably one of the main reasons alot of these games were able to get financed in the first place. I mean let's face it if you have $50 million in venture capital and some guy tells you hes got a great idea for an MMO with elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs oh my! Then some guy says he needs financing for Grand Theft Auto 5 pimps and ho's edition, which one are you going to go with? Me too.
I am still currently playing AOC and I have to say the game has potential (has being the key word) In its current state the game is bugged and the world does not feel immersive. I have friends that have already left the game because it just was not compelling to play.
I watched this game develop for over two years and I have to hand it to their marketing deparment, the hype that surrounded this game was immense. However the game is very buggy (even for a one month old game) no reason to PvP other than for the thrill of the kill, lack of quests and grinding become an issue at high levels and the customer support and replies from developers on what they are working on is really pathetic to say the least. The patches that come each week are severly lacking clarity and purpose. I plan to continue to play the game out of boredom in hopes the game develops into what it has been hyping for the past years.
I apologize for the rant, so my answer is yes I think Mytic has the talent and EA has the cash to make this game a great success. I have a better feeling about the launch of War than I did about AOC because the development team at Mythic has been much more upfront about what will be in the game at release.
Somewhere it is not a fair comparison since AoC's launch mirrors very few in its failure. Not failure in initial sales but in client/game completeness.
I do think that WAR will succeed though - and more so that AoC. I base it on two things: Firstly that the beta is in the state it is right now (I am a beta tester). Secondly that PvP has started to be the main stream in MMORPGs rather than PvE. And WAR shines in the PvP department - you can basically 30min into the game PvP in a meaningful way. That will be very hard to beat unless the client completely deteriorates over the coming 3 months.
Does this mean that WAR will be a good game? No, that still boils down to the finishing touches and tweaks of the product.
I got Aoc and loved it until I got extremely bored of it. When they patch it up and give it time to heal, then I would probably go back to it. right now though Im waiting on War(lol Wow)
But it really doesnt matter. Im hoping off this game as SooN as the 40k comes out.
DISCLAIMER: Now, I know that this forum is going to be skewed to WAR, AND I know this is the millionth post about this AND I know that it is silly to compare a released game to a unreleased game. Also, I have my own opinion aside from the pending results of this post.
But, I want to know what everyone THINKS about this. I know AOC is having a pretty successful lauch (financially at the very least), so I think it will raise the stakes on WAR to do the same.
Although, I hope it will be successful, It does not look like it will be better then AoC. Of course, that is my tastes... it's pretty pointless to even compare really since everyone has different taste. You know though, the same people that jumped on AoC and emo'ed the forums to death are going to do the same thing to WAR. It's a sad fact a ton of emo's play video games.
Making a statement that X is better than Y is always difficult. What exactly are we using as a metric? Whose viewpoint are we using?
I am sure that some people will hate WAR, and some of those may be the same ones who love AoC. For them, the latter is better. This is like having some people who love Pepsi while others love Coca-Cola - purely individual taste.
If we say the more popular game is better, which I suppose, given the market and type of product we are discussing, is the metric with the least bias, then I believe WAR will be better. It would not surprise me if it sells 1,000,000 boxes worldwide within 2 months. As for retention, your guess it as good as mine, but it should be superior to AoC's as I do not think it will be as unstable and the requirements will be lower, which is ultimately a couple of AoC's largest problems. If Funcom's offering ran well and ran on systems with lower specifications, that would solve a lot right there.
Ultimately, though, it does not matter. They are two very different games that share the same genre, that is all. There is room for both of them if enough people subscribe. Funcom seems to be in a hole right now, but I hope they turn it around.
Comments
No, AoC is better just because of this: Link
Canceled my AoC subcription today! - My reasons below
1) AoC have focused too much on high-end guild city raids
2) There is basicly nothing to do at lvl 80 (yet)
3) Hardcore gamers will reach lvl 80 within 2-3 weeks (see reason 2)
4) Soloists / small guilds have no chance on completing their Crafting skills beyond lvl 60 (see reason 1)
5) Bug Bug Bug Bug Bug Bug
6) Crash Crash Crash Crash
|---------------FAILED----------------|
will WAR be better than AOC?
I really hope WAR succeed where VG / AOC failed
WAAAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!
AoC actually got me to go order the CE edition of War after I canceled. The plan was to AoC until Christmas then buy War, but the game just isn't as polished and worth the coin every month for me at least. Yeah it's nice and has potential but I can't see the sense of paying until it's potential. I've been watching War waay before AoC and from every piece of info I've seen it's going to be a better game.
It's all in the eye of the beholder.
I dunno - I have not tried aoc....
AoC didnt do bad at launch, it really didnt.
People say it failed to deliver, like it has a lack of end game content, but they have already said they are going to start putting that in like next month. So its not like they just didnt do it, they are doing it, its just taking time.
Just like WoW when end game was just normal group instances at launch, and it was hella buggy and had problems and all that jazz, but people for some reason ignore that, or, they just dont know about it because most of the people in WoW dont know anything about MMORPGS and played it after it got polished because its such a simple game to play that players tell friends to come play, so you get ex-halo fans playing WoW.
These non experienced WoW players came to AoC and whined about it being crap and they quit and post negative info about it because they are comparing a polished MMO thats been out for years to one thats been out for a month, not understanding that WoW was crap at launch as well, and most MMO's are like that anyway.
So Warhammer is going to be the same, its going to have some flaws and bugs and whatever in it, and WoW players will say its crap and post negative comments about it, leading to false information about it having a bad launch circulating around these exact type of threads(which is apparently the majority of the players of the game) when really, it would probably have a successfull launch and be a good game.
Edit: Also, heres a good example, before AoC came out, all over forums i saw people all for it, paying out WAR and saying its a clone of WoW and there was all this hype for it, now its out, all i ever see is how awful conan is, and how awesome WAR will be.
I look at it this way. Warhammer would have to be REALLY bad to be worse than Conan at release.
double post
i disagree 100% with your statement regarding WAR that it " might fall flat on its face"
the truth is ... regardless if the game sucks or not .. it will have the biggest release $$$ numbers out of any MMO to date .. yes even wow ...
it already has close to 1 million poised to buy the pre-release ...
will it eventually match wow in sub numbers? that i do not know .. wow has gotten to be huge ..
the real question with WAR is .. will it be able to HOLD its HUGE release subscription base?
The Devs at Mythic are well aware of what they need to do to capture and hold a customer base. They know what they need to do in beta and they obviously are not rushing the product to retail.
I think overall we are going to see a well polished, stable game on launch. Heck its pretty much already there with the exception of only a few things.
Sure there will be a few bugs, nothing major though.
All I have to say is be ready because I think we are going to see a very successful game.
Edit: May not mean much but I was in the beta for AoC and WAR. The beta for War is at this point more polished then AOC is now. Without breaking the NDA I think it's safe to assume WAR will do MUCH better then AOC.
"it already has close to 1 million poised to buy the pre-release ..."
While I'm expecting WAR to reach 1 million this is just nowhere based in fact. I think you're confusing people signing up for a free beta with people buying prerelease which is totally not a 1 to 1 relationship.
Id be willing to bet however with the failure that is AoC, it will actually raise peoples hopes for Warhammer, youd be suprised but people will eat rat when theres nothing else......................
well i was dissapointed with AoC i do not think it was a faliure...its has many subs from what Would have been considered pre-WoW and its huge numbers meaning that for the average MMO it is doing well and has a good fan base....
However do i think WAR will hit 1 million players...yes Two million players.....yes it might and so on....
WAR will be a sucess in my mind as long as they keep enough subs to run their servers and have enough people to make RvR fun...
Asking if it will be better is really a personal opinion thing. If the question will WAR do better than AoC then I'd have to be cautiously optomistic and say yes.
I was pretty surprised to see AoC do what it did and release in such bad shape. One would think they had seen what happened to games like Vanguard, Tabula Rasa ect. Based on the pre-release activity it seems like thier goal was mainly to boost box sales so they can just recover as much of the development cost as they could.
One thing is true though all these bad game releases don't really help anyone at least not in the MMO industry. As much as people like to rip on WoW it's probably one of the main reasons alot of these games were able to get financed in the first place. I mean let's face it if you have $50 million in venture capital and some guy tells you hes got a great idea for an MMO with elves, dwarves, goblins, and orcs oh my! Then some guy says he needs financing for Grand Theft Auto 5 pimps and ho's edition, which one are you going to go with? Me too.
I am still currently playing AOC and I have to say the game has potential (has being the key word) In its current state the game is bugged and the world does not feel immersive. I have friends that have already left the game because it just was not compelling to play.
I watched this game develop for over two years and I have to hand it to their marketing deparment, the hype that surrounded this game was immense. However the game is very buggy (even for a one month old game) no reason to PvP other than for the thrill of the kill, lack of quests and grinding become an issue at high levels and the customer support and replies from developers on what they are working on is really pathetic to say the least. The patches that come each week are severly lacking clarity and purpose. I plan to continue to play the game out of boredom in hopes the game develops into what it has been hyping for the past years.
I apologize for the rant, so my answer is yes I think Mytic has the talent and EA has the cash to make this game a great success. I have a better feeling about the launch of War than I did about AOC because the development team at Mythic has been much more upfront about what will be in the game at release.
Somewhere it is not a fair comparison since AoC's launch mirrors very few in its failure. Not failure in initial sales but in client/game completeness.
I do think that WAR will succeed though - and more so that AoC. I base it on two things: Firstly that the beta is in the state it is right now (I am a beta tester). Secondly that PvP has started to be the main stream in MMORPGs rather than PvE. And WAR shines in the PvP department - you can basically 30min into the game PvP in a meaningful way. That will be very hard to beat unless the client completely deteriorates over the coming 3 months.
Does this mean that WAR will be a good game? No, that still boils down to the finishing touches and tweaks of the product.
Ill buy Warhammer... In preorder...
Lots of beta testers say the game is grat, i like concept of the game - RvR specialy...
Lots of difrent classes (everyone will eventuali try both order and chaos)...
They didnt rushed it on the shelves... So we can expect that warhammer will be polished...
I got Aoc and loved it until I got extremely bored of it. When they patch it up and give it time to heal, then I would probably go back to it. right now though Im waiting on War(lol Wow
)
But it really doesnt matter. Im hoping off this game as SooN as the 40k comes out.
Although, I hope it will be successful, It does not look like it will be better then AoC. Of course, that is my tastes... it's pretty pointless to even compare really since everyone has different taste. You know though, the same people that jumped on AoC and emo'ed the forums to death are going to do the same thing to WAR. It's a sad fact a ton of emo's play video games.
Making a statement that X is better than Y is always difficult. What exactly are we using as a metric? Whose viewpoint are we using?
I am sure that some people will hate WAR, and some of those may be the same ones who love AoC. For them, the latter is better. This is like having some people who love Pepsi while others love Coca-Cola - purely individual taste.
If we say the more popular game is better, which I suppose, given the market and type of product we are discussing, is the metric with the least bias, then I believe WAR will be better. It would not surprise me if it sells 1,000,000 boxes worldwide within 2 months. As for retention, your guess it as good as mine, but it should be superior to AoC's as I do not think it will be as unstable and the requirements will be lower, which is ultimately a couple of AoC's largest problems. If Funcom's offering ran well and ran on systems with lower specifications, that would solve a lot right there.
Ultimately, though, it does not matter. They are two very different games that share the same genre, that is all. There is room for both of them if enough people subscribe. Funcom seems to be in a hole right now, but I hope they turn it around.