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The problem with this game through the eyes of a pvper!
jakojako
Member Posts: 332
Hello, i've decided to share my thoughts on the problems with this game through the eyes of me, (a pvper). Feel free to flame or start a discussion on any one of my thoughts.
So now you're thinking, "What's the problem with this game through the eyes of a pvper?". Well, i'm about to tell you!
#1: The later you join, the further behind you'll be.
Yes, let's get this one out of the way, shall we?
Basically what i'm saying with this problem is that the game is based off of how long you've played and how much time you have put into your skills. Now to some of you, this may not be a problem, heck, you might not even give a crap as to how long other people have played this game. But to most pvpers, this is a HUGE issue.
Basically, this means that you will have to spend years of training skills in order to even stand a chance against the weakest of pvpers in this game. If you plan on joining now and pvping, you might as well not even bother, because little to your knowledge, you will most likely get bored of the game before you can even stand a chance in pvp.
When you play this game, whoever has played the game the longest will win the fights.
#2: 99.9999% of the people who pvp have been playing for over 3 years.
Yes, so when you play this game, know that you're going up against people that have THREE YEARS of experience over you. Meaning that... you don't stand a chance.
"But why are the only people in pvp insane veterans??" Well, this is because they kill everyone that even attempts to go into "low-sec" (the pvp area of the game).
Sure, you might see a guy who's been playing for 3 months that you might have a chance of killing roaming around in low sec, but chances are, the moment that person dies, he's never coming back into low sec.
So to answer the question above, ask yourself this: Would you bother trying to fight someone that has MILLIONS of more skill points than you and will blow you to pieces in an instant? Chances are you're going to say "no", which is EXACTLY why there's no new players in low-sec at all.
#3: Getting cash to pay for your ships:
Now, I personally never had a money problem in this game, but most people do. This links DIRECTLY with why most newer players won't even think about going into low sec because they will lose all the isk they put into their ship in under 3 seconds.
And the point of this entire thread is?!?!?
Well, if you've been unable to figure the point of this thread out, this is it: "If you plan on pvping in this game, be willing to play it for over 2 years or find another game".
You'll be unable to take on 99% of pvpers unless you've played for a long time.
Personally, i've had a TON of fun with this game until i realized that 99% of the pvpers have millions of more skill points than me and will kill me in 10 shots.
*This post is not a rant, it is a warning for those who wish to join this game for pvp*
Comments
I totally agree I played the shit for too long and got milked by CCP..
when our corp wanted to go pvp guess what we had a whole alliance chasing our arses... and low sec is always guarded so unless you're apart of an alliance which has access to low sec or 0.0 you can forget about pvp... it is not fun to fight against the odds all the time even with lots of experience when outnumbered most of the time it's not possible to do good pvp like in Darkspace for instance.. at least even under heavy fire your ship can last a while and manevouring the ship has something to say as well as aiming.
I prefer games that not only relies on skills to make your charceter good but your actual pvp skill as a player what you can do.. a combat in EVE is too automatical for me leaving no room that your personal skills won't help you if you're against a most of the times ships that is outnumbering you.
Also one of the problem is that when it comes to pvp most alliances or corps are too afraid to do a combat unless they have the numbers. A few corps like ours was willing to try it but it got boring in the end not able to do much than take a few ships with us to death.
EVE is for people as OP says want to stick with a game for 2 years+ to actually get the experience needed and there is not much for most people to stick around.
In most cases when you meet a player who has only been played for like a few months which is good at pvp he is actually a player who has played a long time and this is his alt character.
And when you're apart of an alliance patrolling low sector or 0.0 waiting for a pvp battle can take a long time.
If you're a causual player EVE is not the game for you if you seek instant action you should try something else. However there is few space games out there and CCP is lucky that there is no alternative at this point to EVE..
EVe could have been so much but it's not.
In what game a noob player can kill a 3 year old player?Wanna kill?Kill another noob.Wanna kill someone older?Be smart.Play your cards right,join some friends,choose your fights.Eve rewards teamwork.I only have one advice to anyone who is willing to try the game.By the moment u hit the log in button,forget everything u knew about the other games.Its a whole new diferent world you are entering.If you want ta play something similiar to your previews game,just dont bother.If you want to play something new and unique,adapt to the game mechanics,learn the game and have FUN!I do!
True, in no game can a noob kill a 3 year old player, but in every other game that noob has a CHANCE to eventually get to that 3 year old player's level and CHALLENGE him/her.In eve, you have no chance to get up to his/her level because he/she will continue to gain more skills.
Kill another noob? Ha! Fat chance buddy! .001% of noobs engage in pvp in this game! And that's a fact!!!
Engaging someone 1v10: Yes, you WILL win, however, how proud will you be of yourself? There's no satisfaction (to me, at least) in killing someone 1v10. Feels a little cheap. Sure, it's a way to win, and some people do it. But to others, it's just not their thing. However, i will commend you on throwing out a good point with that one.
Oh and I forgot to add:
#4: Alliances
Of course, alliances in this game were made. You will seldom get the chance to fight someone one on one, you will mostly fight people 1 on 15. As outrageous as this is, it's true and happens *all the time*.
So, never expect a fair fight in this game, it won't happen.
absolutly untrue. we are a smal corp. we have members who range from 14 mill skill points (slightly noob) to members with 2 mill skill points (total noob). and guess WHAT? we pvp and have fun AND success. some of our people fly frigs. oh my! some fly Cruisers, and a few fly battle cruisers. but guess what else? we NEVER fly what we cant afford to replace 3 times fully without insurance. we have taken on members of a corp that has younger members older than our oldest and sometimes we win and sometimes we have to run. but in all of it we have fun and never smack talk, that in its self has caused more of the corps that we have fought against to grudginly give us some respect for our professional attitudes. can a 2 mill noob in a frigate take out a 20 mill vet in a BS. nope... but he CAN tackle that BS and hold him there untill the cruisers and battlecruisers get there and slowly take him apart. we dont ever tell our younger members( we are all young so i'm refering to the really young ones) to stay home cause they might get hurt. we take them with us and as a team we have FUN.... remember, its a game and you'll have fun... even if i'm blowing up your internet pixals that are shaped like a spaceship
man, you really dug out the old chestnuts there. i was a few months old when i got my first kill on another player who had been playing for years.
i skipped the rest of your poast after that little gem.
can i have your stuff?
lol... you ended that to the point eh?
And i've never stated that i was quitting the game, just showing people that wish to join the game the true problems with the pvp system.
And i've never stated that i was quitting the game, just showing people that wish to join the game the true problems with the pvp system.
For someone who claims to be playing EVE, its sort of amazing that you have so little understanding of the PVP. Such outrageous statements, like all PVP'er have 3 years experience. Or that alliances control/have access to 0.0/lowsec entry points (Pirate gangs dominate in these areas actually).
Within 6-9 months you could train up to fly a Tech 2 speed tanking cruiser such as a Vagabond and absolutely destroy people.
And you mis-understand PVP from a risk vs reward perspective, and somehow think theres some sort of honor is solo fighting.
There's not. In EVE its win or lose, kill or be killed. You win whatever way it takes, be it camping a gate, preying on helpless miners/ratters or hunting down other pirates and gankers in huge fleets than can never lose (until they hit a bigger, stronger fleet of course)
You fail to realize that for any given ship there is a limited number of skills that you can train for it, and maximum level you can train them in that is easily reached by any player in under a year for all ships up to and including Battleships. (Capitols are another story)
No matter if someone has 55M Skill points to my characters 17 million (not quite a year played) I assure you, he has no more SP's trained in a Vagabond than I do, since I'm pretty much maxed in all of the important ones.
Of course, while I have the skills, I lack the true player skill to fly the ship well, nor am I comfortable flying such an expensive ship, so I tend to lose a lot to a more experienced and risk taking player.
Sure, if you prefer you PVP unfettered so that you can throw caution to the wind, and fight the good fight, only to come right back and do it again, EVE's not for you. EVE is all about the quiet satisfaction knowing you walked away from the fight with the other guys gear, and chalk another win up on the killboard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with Kyleran.I happened to kill some old players in cruisers while ratting,in my rifter.Was that unfair?There is no unfair in EVE.Only opportunities.You are free to act as you like.Win at all costs.Everyone has to figure his way to it.I rather hear vets whining about getting killed by some noobs,than hearing noobs saying that they will never catch up.
BUT until i see that video, I will continue to believe what i currently believe.
then i am sorry to say... you will continue to fail
stuff, yours, has it,can i?
And i've never stated that i was quitting the game, just showing people that wish to join the game the true problems with the pvp system.
For someone who claims to be playing EVE, its sort of amazing that you have so little understanding of the PVP. Such outrageous statements, like all PVP'er have 3 years experience. Or that alliances control/have access to 0.0/lowsec entry points (Pirate gangs dominate in these areas actually).
Within 6-9 months you could train up to fly a Tech 2 speed tanking cruiser such as a Vagabond and absolutely destroy people.
And you mis-understand PVP from a risk vs reward perspective, and somehow think theres some sort of honor is solo fighting.
There's not. In EVE its win or lose, kill or be killed. You win whatever way it takes, be it camping a gate, preying on helpless miners/ratters or hunting down other pirates and gankers in huge fleets than can never lose (until they hit a bigger, stronger fleet of course)
You fail to realize that for any given ship there is a limited number of skills that you can train for it, and maximum level you can train them in that is easily reached by any player in under a year for all ships up to and including Battleships. (Capitols are another story)
No matter if someone has 55M Skill points to my characters 17 million (not quite a year played) I assure you, he has no more SP's trained in a Vagabond than I do, since I'm pretty much maxed in all of the important ones.
Of course, while I have the skills, I lack the true player skill to fly the ship well, nor am I comfortable flying such an expensive ship, so I tend to lose a lot to a more experienced and risk taking player.
Sure, if you prefer you PVP unfettered so that you can throw caution to the wind, and fight the good fight, only to come right back and do it again, EVE's not for you. EVE is all about the quiet satisfaction knowing you walked away from the fight with the other guys gear, and chalk another win up on the killboard.
I'm very glad that you can fight someone 10v1 and walk away with a proud, satisfactory grin on your face. I'm glad for you that you can give someone absolutely no chance at all to fight back and still walk away like you've achieved something great.
The person you are describing in your post is a direct translation to a "griefer", someone who kills another player, giving them absolutely no chance to win. I suppose you would never bother fighting someone 1v10, you being the "1", but you take pride in killing someone with a giant group by your side.
Good for you. If that's how you like to play, i won't criticize it in any way. I won't say that you have no idea how to pvp, and I expect the same respect of my decisions from you.
What if you were a pagan living in middle-ages Europe? The catholics would kill you for not believing in what they believe. Think about that.
I dont have any videos and i didnt kill any 4 year players.They were playing from 2006.And this is enough for me.Maybe your goal in EVE is to beat the vets.Thats not my goal.Its not like WOW dueling with the super duper geared guys.But i can join with older players to beat the crap out of some other vets.Even with my 0.1% damage i still enjoy it,cause your efforts pay off here.Tackling,scouting,baiting,you name it.
What a load of hogwash.
I've played EVE for about three years and started PvPing after about 2 weeks. True, I lost a lot of encounters at first but that soon passed. now I loose about 40% of my encounters.
1&2) For those of you who are not EVE players, EVE is a rocks -papers -scissors game. Anyone can pwn anyone at any time, there is no "I win" button. It is true that if you are intent on being the "baddest MFer" in EVE, you'd better have skillpoints and lots of them. However, lots of EVE players never really go much beyond the Frigate level and are quite welcome additions to fleet operations.
3) As far as the cost of ships goes, the golden rule is "don't fly what you can't afford to loose". If you start flying Frigates for example, AND LOOSE EVERYTHING YOU OWN, you can be back in a Frigate in about an hour. Although they aren't good for much, whenever you pull into a station without a ship your given a free "Rookie Ship" which is fitted with a gun of some sort and a basic miner . There are also in game insurance policies you can buy for your ships - see golden rule above.
True, EVE is not for the faint of heart, it's a VERY steep learning curve and the vacuum of space is unforgiving. It is also true that EVE has more "griefers" than many games, I'd go as far to say that EVE has more "damaged" people playing than most games but these people are largely avoidable.
If a player is getting killed in 10 shots they need to watch local more and learn to play (and stay) in the shallow end of the pool.
The only reason I'm here at all is because today is a major patch day for the expansion "Empyrean Age" (free btw) and I'm waiting for 0200 to roll around. Empyrean Age (EA) will go a long way towards making "easing in" to PvP more palitable for the less experienced players. If you go to the EVE boards (when they come back on line) you'll see dozens of players panning EA even though it's not out yet. You all know these people, they're in every game, and they're always whining about something. It's a game, play it.
hey there since u do baiting and scouting wud u join my corp mate? i need a little noob to do some small work here and there a niuce little meatshield wud u be that guy?
i have been playing since 2006 and a FC too
The 40% of the fights you lose are most likely against people that have more skill points than you.
Apparently, NOBODY in this thread sees my apparent point! IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!
Point IS: YOU CANNOT BEAT SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR 1 YEAR OR MORE LONGER THAN YOU 1v1!
There! Should I underline it and put it in bold print for you guys?!?!?
If you want to prove me wrong, go to low sec, find someone who's been playing for 1 year or more longer than you, then fight them and make sure you record the fight. (one on one of course)
YOU WILL LOSE.....
You are full of shit. I've been playing this game for about 4 years and have beat people that are at least a year older than me.
If I'm in a frigate and some 5 month old character is in a battlecruiser there's 99.9% chance I'll die if webs and scrambles me.
And anyway this game is about teamwork. I've been PvPing with the same guys in my corp for years and we've taken on odds 10to1 easily.
Sure most of the time we destroy our foes but it's just because we have the experience not the SP.
Go play wow noob.
In my opinion, the veterans have kinda earned their spot. Solution is: take your lumps, get back in your egg, keep cruising and keep training. It's been my experience so far (granted, only four days, but still my experience nonetheless) that you absolutely must play this game with the knowledge that at some point, you will lose and you will die, and you may not have a choice of when either one occurs. If you can't accept the fact that you are, in fact, weaker than most, then maybe you're missing the point of the game. Balance and fairness is not the M.O. of EVE. It's about transcending adversity, and persisting through your losses.
Besides, killing a vet isn't impossible. Improbable, maybe, but not impossible.
maybe you mean
YOU CANNOT BEAT SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR 1 YEAR OR MORE AND PLAYED AS A PVP COMBAT CHARACTER AND IS IN A WELL FITTED SHIP THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO FLY VS YOU WHEN YOU IN A SIMILAR WELL FITTED SHIP THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY 1v1 WHERE ONE OF YOU MUST DIE AND IGNORING RANDOM CHANCE UNTIL YOU BOTH MAX OUT THE SKILLS IN THE SHIP AND THE SUPPORT SKILLS AS THAT IS A HARD LIMITED EQUALISER!
but why should you be able to? why would you want to? how often is this unlikely situation to arise?
PvP in eve is about controling the engagement. i can a win any pvp engagement in a 3 month old character. use an intercepter and kill your opponent it if you are able otherwise fly away. i dictate the terms of the engagement and therefore i win.
your obsecion with equal footing in 1on1 PvP in eve really misses the whole point of EVE. That it is a MMO. why not go play online chess if all you want is one opponent?
"Stfu noob i don't care what you have to say"
How do you like it?
Actually thats not quite true.. close but not quite. The thing is.. there is only so far you can train your pvp skills before reaching their cap and moving on to the next skill branch... at that point you might be training up capital ships or something, which sure is nice, but you dont use a capital ship against some guy in a frig, thats not very efficient.. as an example.
So while you are catching up to them, they are learning other stuff.. the advantage to long subscriptions is more isk and a wider variety of skills among many fields.
As for low sec and 0.0 - Yes 0.0 is dangerous and you shouldn't go wandering about there without permission from the occupying powers, or without good backup or good sneaking abilities and fast warping (be happy you dont need to make warp to 0 bookmarks anymore in that respect).
Low sec.. sure if you try to go do stuff in the heavy population areas, especially bordering 0.0 entry points.. you are likely to run into trouble.. but lowsec is also a pretty big area, and there's no reason to go mess around in those dangerous places. I currently am quietly missioning solo in a lowsec area off the beaten path, and no one at all is giving me any trouble; most of the time there's only 4-5 people in one of the mission target systems, the other about 10
maybe you mean
YOU CANNOT BEAT SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR 1 YEAR OR MORE AND PLAYED AS A PVP COMBAT CHARACTER AND IS IN A WELL FITTED SHIP THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO FLY VS YOU WHEN YOU IN A SIMILAR WELL FITTED SHIP THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY 1v1 WHERE ONE OF YOU MUST DIE AND IGNORING RANDOM CHANCE UNTIL YOU BOTH MAX OUT THE SKILLS IN THE SHIP AND THE SUPPORT SKILLS AS THAT IS A HARD LIMITED EQUALISER!
but why should you be able to? why would you want to? how often is this unlikely situation to arise?
PvP in eve is about controling the engagement. i can a win any pvp engagement in a 3 month old character. use an intercepter and kill your opponent it if you are able otherwise fly away. i dictate the terms of the engagement and therefore i win.
your obsecion with equal footing in 1on1 PvP in eve really misses the whole point of EVE. That it is a MMO. why not go play online chess if all you want is one opponent?
No, i mean what i said... Don't change my words without my permission.1on1 pvp misses the whole point of eve? What are you talking about? MMO's are all about one on one.... Seeing if you are better than the other person, or at least seeing how you compare. There is no competition in 1on10, but mmo's are ALL about competition.
Why don't you go play halo if you want 1on10?
maybe you mean
YOU CANNOT BEAT SOMEBODY THAT HAS BEEN PLAYING FOR 1 YEAR OR MORE AND PLAYED AS A PVP COMBAT CHARACTER AND IS IN A WELL FITTED SHIP THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO FLY VS YOU WHEN YOU IN A SIMILAR WELL FITTED SHIP THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY 1v1 WHERE ONE OF YOU MUST DIE AND IGNORING RANDOM CHANCE UNTIL YOU BOTH MAX OUT THE SKILLS IN THE SHIP AND THE SUPPORT SKILLS AS THAT IS A HARD LIMITED EQUALISER!
but why should you be able to? why would you want to? how often is this unlikely situation to arise?
PvP in eve is about controling the engagement. i can a win any pvp engagement in a 3 month old character. use an intercepter and kill your opponent it if you are able otherwise fly away. i dictate the terms of the engagement and therefore i win.
your obsecion with equal footing in 1on1 PvP in eve really misses the whole point of EVE. That it is a MMO. why not go play online chess if all you want is one opponent?
No, i mean what i said... Don't change my words without my permission.1on1 pvp misses the whole point of eve? What are you talking about? MMO's are all about one on one.... Seeing if you are better than the other person, or at least seeing how you compare. There is no competition in 1on10, but mmo's are ALL about competition.
Why don't you go play halo if you want 1on10?
MMOs are all about 1 on 1 ? How did you come to this conclusion ? Or is this just the way you want to be all the time ? Go join a game with consensual only pvp and dueling and you might be happy. Or just make a whole new genre of online game called the Massively Multiplayer Online Dueling Simulator.