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The problem with this game through the eyes of a pvper!
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and you have fun flying whatever tiny ship you've managed to train up to with your 7m sp, i hope you took a little time to get a few level 4 learning skills (at the least), so that you're not spending extra months training for the next ship you'll try to fly.
have fun being lost in the group so no one sees how much damage you're really doing. well unless you're not in a damage ship and you're still playing tackler at 7m sp...
LOL!!! Literally, when I read the part about still tackling.
I do have all all of my learning skills to level 4
I do enjoy mission running
I do enjoy both solo and group PvP
I do enjoy making ISK on the market (good way to subsidize ships)
But, I have never tackled.
Isn't it amazing what someone with an open mind and a little ingenuity can accomplish in EVE? All I did was not listen to the nay-sayers and those who somehow think it's clever to blow smoke out their butts.
You fail to understand the game's design. If EVE wasn't designed this way, small ships would serve no long term purpose, and before long, everyone would be flying around in Battleships or larger, and the game would be uninteresting.
Its all about the fitting. Battleships can be fitted with long range large guns, for the purpose of killing other large ships at range. (and most medium ships as well).
But if a player choses, he can fit the BS with Smart Bombs (i've run into this) and small guns and surprise med/small ships with a barrage of lethal fire.
What you can't do is fit a ship for every situation. This encourages players to fly together, to experiment with different fittings and yes, makes small ships viable at all points in the games lifecycle.
Each ship has a purpose, each has a primary fitting, and several alternate fittings which can be used to surprise other players.
There is so much to EVE's combat that most players (IAMMMO comes to mind) fail to understand and appreciate.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The logic is quite easy, called turret tracking.
The explanation is game balance. There must always be a counter that is not in the same shipclass. There must not be a ship or setup that is completely uber.
Plus, it's forcing you to build fleets. Typical fleets nowadays have sniping bs guarding capital fleets (which are vulnerable to bs fleets), while the bs are guarded by a support fleet (as the bs are extremely vulnerable to a well formed support fleet).
It's similar in real life, with naval vessels mostly being in larger fleets, where different ships have different roles.
(And by the way, small weaponry does not do more damage to bs. Actually, a good bs can tank several fast frigates without running out of cap for a long time. The ceptors/frigs are there to hold the bs down until the cavalry arrives.
and yet here you are pointing fingers while you defend EVE..
sooooo amusing to see people asking others to get a life when they obviously don't have one themselves... if it bothers you so much why on earth do you bother to read in the 1st place?
EVE is flawed, I like the fact that a new player can take on a old character however not the fact that a frigate or 2 can take out a BS just stupid... only game I know of who has small guns give lots of damage to big ships and big guns hardly do any damage to small ship... just tell me the logic of that because it really puzzles me.
I have a good example for you. Lets say you have a small agile, fast guy and a big, slow, cumbresome guy. The small guy if and when he hits doesn't really do a lot of damage to the big guy. The big guy has a very strong punch. But it's hard for the big guy to actually hit the small guy because of the difference in speed. While the small guy can take the big guy down, he will need a lot of effort and if he makes a slight mistake will get knocked out by only one punch. Logic enough for you? It is for me. (Bigger isn't always better) and (Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages) I think CCP has grasped that quite well.
"EVE is flawed" - I agree, every game is though I don't think that what you have wrote as unlogic is the disadvantage but actually an advantage (a small ship taking down a bigger one).
I like to read not only about this game but other games. I tend to make as short replys as I can. And I take everything (hopefully) in consideration when reading about what someone has to say about something (it is how people gain and change opinions, agree and disagree with certain things...). And I think that when a post gets stretched to more than 10 pages, people usually just cicle things around and the same bubblegum gets chewed over and over again without an end, this is when I think people should get a life. So I disagree with you about me not having a life. You can maintain a life even if playing games or doing other things.
I defend EvE? No, I don't. I've just wrote why I prefer EvE online over WoW.
And have just expressed that I think that this topic is bullshit, because people don't really stick to what the OP has wrote and tend to just argue which game is better and why. (That's why I used WoW as an example, because someone else mentioned it)
Oh and another example of small things taking bigger things down. Have you ever seen the power that a swarm of ants can do to a much bigger bug? Yes, they can take down a lot of bigger things.
And you will never see a frig taking down a good fitted BS alone, ever. The small frig can't do enough DPS to harm the BS. If something like this happens means that the BS is badly fitted (very badly).
Oh and "only game I know of who has small guns give lots of damage to big ships and big guns hardly do any damage to small ship" - small guns don't do lots of damage to big ships, they just hit. Big guns do a lot of damage to small ships (can insta-kill them) if they hit. If you don't understand what I mean refer to the "big kid small kid" example above. You obviously don't know enough about EvE to make a comment as you have.
Have a good day.
You're not afraid of the dark, are you?
what is really funny, in a sad fashion, is all the people who continue to lie about how eve really is.
why did devs bump up starting SPs to what? 600-800k for starting now? what'd it use to be? 200k?
why did devs introduce heat to the game?
why did devs change titans' power and scale it down?
read the dev blogs. stop making up lies. lies? yes, lies. if what you post is in direct opposition to both what the devs say and what they do -- it's a lie. especially for all those who are so gogogogogoeve.
the negatives i've said about eve. the DEVELOPERS OF EVE, WHO WORK AT CCP HAVE SAID IT FIRST AND I AM REPEATING.
that's the real funny part.
and that's great that, as a new player you can have oodles of fun and do all sorts of things. great. wonderful. i'm sure most everyone that's played eve for over a year has probably tried a lot of the things you're doing. it doesn't make you clever.
and those things, plus the fact whether you're having fun or not, have absolutely NOTHING to do with what devs have stated repeatedly, nor any facts about SPs and catching up in SPs.
nothing.
at all.
not a smidge.
not the first teeny tiny thing to do at all with any of that.
nada.
but please, keep repeating it, because if i ask for an orange and you keep handing me peanuts... magically they'll turn into an orange. that makes as much sense as arguing facts with "but, i have fun". no one said you didn't have fun. no one said you couldn't have fun.
i'm starting to wonder about reading comprehension, it is obviously not up to snuff.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Damian,
Number one, I would like to point out that EVE is one of the largest growing MMOs in the industry. It has just surpassed EQ2 for 7th largest MMO by market share. Obviously someone is playing the game.
Obviously people are playing the game and liking it. You don't? Don't play it.
In addition to that the CEO of CCP just got named in Massively as the 4th most important person in the MMO industry. Eve doesn't just have the attention of a large and dedicated player base, but it also happens to have the attention of people who make and write about MMOs.
*edit * I can provide links for all of this. *edit*
As to your point about how many people are logged on at once. Typically its over 30,000 on most days. On the weekends over 40,000. This is up significantly from the 12,000 or so when I started playing.
Its obvious though (or it should be) that in any game you will never have all the subscribers logged in at once. It never, for any game, gets anywhere close to 50%.
As for the statistics being "glitchy," or your implication that the "books" are somehow being doctored you have a point.
People with multiple accounts are being counted, as well as paying accounts from Asia (why this matters other than some racist insinuation that all Asian players are farmers I don't know).
There are two facts I want to bring up here though. EVERY GAME IN EXISTENCE counts subs this way. Do you really think there are 14 million seperate WoW players out there? No. So while CCP is counting players with multiple accounts, etc, so is everyone else.
Having said that players with multiple accounts make up less than 13% of the population of EVE and for most other games as well. In other words the multiple account issue doesn't really inflate the numbers too much.
Number two, you say that heat was added by the devs because "in their words pvp sucked and was broken." Do you care to provide a link for that quite amazing piece of information from the CCP developers, or are you just making that up?
My guess is that you're just making that up.
Number three, some elements of the game are boring, don't work the way we'd like them, suck, are broken, etc, etc, etc.
No game is perfect, my friend. In every game that you play (or work on) you can look at the online community and see players complaining about certain aspects of the game. This is true of WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, EVE, etc, etc, etc.
There is no perfect MMO out there, and as such eve-online is not a perfect game.
MMOs are living things that require a tremendous amount of effort to update, balance, and fix by the development staff.
What I will say about eve-online is that it THE best MMO I've played. Much better than the MMO I spent 2 years working on. This is, of course, entirely subjective. I can give you my reasons for why I think the game is so good, but obviously you don't have to agree.
However, I'm not really sure what the point is of the constant trolling of the EVE forums by people like yourself. If you don't like the game, great. However, you shouldn't be arguing with the people who LIKE and PLAY the game about how much that game sucks. Are you 12 or something?
-S
Actually, this post is virtually incomprehensible, I salute the other two posters who were able to craft a credible response to it.
No reason for people to lie about EVE, it is fun for a certain segment of the gaming population and you apparently don't fit the demographic.
Enjoy your time in WOW or whatever game you currently enjoy.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Damian,
Funny, I read the dev blogs all the time and I've never read that they "think pvp sucks and is broken" or that their game "sucks" or any of the things you seem to want to imply.
I mean, even if all the negative things you are saying were true, I find it highly suspect that an MMO development staff working for a video game company whose goal is to make money would publically announce "HEY EVERYONE! OVER HERE! OUR GAMES SUCK!"
Maybe I'm wrong. Why don't you link me the particular dev blogs in mind, then we can all read them and have a friendly discussion about them.
And yes EVE bumped the starting player skill points to 800k to enhance new user experience.
OMFG!? Stop the presses.
Unfortunately for you this happens in every MMO. Things are changed and balanced constantly. Classes are nerfed and buffed, crafting systems are augmented to make them more intuitive, racial abilities are altered, spells are removed, loot tables are modified, experience gains altered, and auction houses are toyed with.
Every game. Every single game. So you've discovered that EVE at its core is an MMO like every other massively multiplayer game out there. Good job.
Do you want a cookie?
-S
Actually, it is completely incomprehensible. Where is the point of the post, what does he want to tell us?
But, most importantly, what did he do to good ol'd buddy "grammar" and uncle interpunction?
this dude, damian7, keeps posting how EVE devs say that pvp sucks, but he hasnt provided a single reference. in fact, those references do not exist cause that is a lie. EVE devs have never said that pvp sucks, or that the game is broken.
the fact that the game is constantly improved and balanced is no proof whatsoever that the game is broken. its clear this guy is obsessed with EVE Online and probably cant stand its success. too bad for you. the game is great, is successful, and new players are signing in every day. they'll never have as many sp as veteran players, but they know that in a short time they'll be as skilled as anybody on a single category of ships. what any noob is able to understand on 2 days, you are failing to grasp throughout all this time.
what dose troll mean?
someone who basically attacks a game
someone who basically attacks a game
ahh thankyou
you won the interwebz~! yaaaay big guns~!
in conclusion, nothing to see here, everything working as intended and everyone is free to move about the cabin and/or gbtw. thank you, and good night!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
In this debate I have seen 2 different argument styles. In one style arguments and opinions are presented in a well reasoned manner and are easily understood by the reader. In the other style arguments are promoted primarily through the use of sarcasm leaving the reader with the impression that the author really had nothing to say and is only promoting her(him)self.
I will refrain from commenting on wall of text posts, but proper use of paragraphs and punctuation can go a long way in promoting readability.
Planetside.
In original SWG it would have taken you a few months.
WoW about 6 months to level to 60 then gear up,
AoC, just the levelling time.
The problem is that in Eve you'll never have the skills of a 3 year vet.
Once again, to those who don't like that EVE isn't like so many other online games out there. Get over it.
Yes, you can't catch up to other players in total skill-points, not ever. Not by grinding your arse off, not by macroing (and hoping not to get caught). Not even by whining about it.
While skillpoints are perhaps a quantifiable measure of character progression, they are not a measure of character level in EVE, nor ability. There are no levels.
Skill-points are not a measure of "uberness", they just allow you to do more stuff and do some stuff slightly better, up to a point.
And for purposes of player combat, skill-points are even less relevant then for most other things you can do in the game. There are only only so many skills that will contribute in player combat, in any given situation. You don't even need to max them all to level 5, apart from pre-requirement skills.
So, for new players wanting to make their way in EVE, start by finding something you want to be good at, sooner then later. Then start training skills relevant to that.
Work in some learning skills if you're thinking of playing longer term. However, don't listen to the people that will tell you to do nothing but max out all the learning before doing anything else, that's foolish.
Also, don't listen to anyone that offers a strong opinion on something (ship / skill / playstyle / character race/boxer or briefs/ whatever) being clearly superior to anything else. This being an online game there will always be players looking for min-maxing and something they perceive to be "uber" and then concluding that anything that doesn't meet their narrow criteria for "uber" must in turn be "gimped" beyond belief. There is no such thing as "uber" in EVE.
As a new player, you will get good at something pretty quickly. By the time you're good at something, if you have maintained a certain skill training focus, you should also have been able to figure out most of the basics of how do do stuff and also earn a little isk to buy the widgets you like or need.
You will, however, need to think and read and plan a bit, while all this is going on. You won't get far simply by undocking and looking for EVE's equivalent of the bunny grinding dungeon.
While mindlessly blowing stuff up does have it's place and merit in EVE, it will get boring quickly and most players with any sense should look beyond that, even if they simply graduate to mindfully blowing stuff up. Or making stuff (for others to get blown up in).
So, once a new player is good at something, they most likely will branch out and try and get good at something else. That's where the skill point system and real time skill training is so different. Beyond getting decent at one thing only, skill training will allow you to do more things, different things.
Again, you can only fly one ship at a time, being able to fly 50 different ships just gives you more options as to which one ship you want to fly at that particular moment. And there are only so many gizmos you can mount on that one ship, only so many skills that are needed to make those particular widgets turn on.
Planetside.
In original SWG it would have taken you a few months.
WoW about 6 months to level to 60 then gear up,
AoC, just the levelling time.
The problem is that in Eve you'll never have the skills of a 3 year vet.
the problem is that people dont understand that not having the skills of a 3 year vet is not a big deal. in wow levels are everything, so they assume that in eve skillpoints are the same as levels. they are wrong.
fixed. happy 1.0 thru 0.5 and YAAAY big guns~!!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Irony ALERT! Irony ALERT!
Damian7 sez:
"through the use of sarcasm out of disdain for people presenting half-truths as fact."
Look in the mirror much?
/me rolls eyes
which half truth am i telling?
is pos warfare broken?
is desync a problem?
are blobs still the way to fight the wars to conquer areas?
is it somehow possible for a rookie to catch up to a 3+ year vet, if they're both specializing in the same *stuff*, SP-wise?
can a rookie have fun in eve? yes. that's never been disputed.
i'm just curious, what half truth am i telling?
otherwise... here's your sign.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Addressing 2 of your key points:
1. a new player cant compete against a 3 year old player...well that is just completely untrue for many reasons.
1.1. As you can use several types of ships if a 3 year old player is in a frig and you are in a cruiser then you will most likely win. Its about the tools you use and not about you as a character.
1.2. if you have level 3 in a skill and a 3 year old player has level 5 then chances are they have 6-10% advantage over you as each level tends to give 3-5% bonus
2. Want PvP? Then join factional warfare or join a corp and use frigs in combat. Frigs can still cause issues and be a right pain in the arse plus they are cheap and you can replace easily. A lot of corps will just give you frigates or cruisers.
EVE is a game that needs time thinking about how you go about combat and not how long you have been leveling your character. in fact its probably the fairest game I have ever played. Every other game I have played if you are 4 or so levels behind another player then you are pretty much finished.
Besides if you train your combat skills for 3 months and a 3 year old player trains soft skills like trade etc then you will definitely have an advantage.
If you cant work out PvP then its really your problem. Hundreds of corps will give training, their are dozens of articles on it and the magazine EON has specific setups to use. So much out there so no excuse really.
Damian,
Lmfao. How you fail. You were asked for a simple thing, references to support your assertion that the "devs have continuously posted about how broken their game is and how much it sucks."
Instead of doing this (because you cannot actually do this since no such dev communications exist) you spam in all red font about how a bunch of different stuff is "broken."
Sorry, bud, but you can use all the misdirection you want, but you've still failed to produce one single link to support the stuff you were previously arguing.
AND AGAIN, all you have done is point out that CCP has made changes to their game for balance issues. SO WHAT? EVERY OTHER MMO IN EXISTENCE MAKES CONTENT BALANCING CHANGES CONSTANTLY.
BASICALLY, WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING IS, IF CONENT CHANGES BOTHER YOU IS THAT EVERY MMO IN EXISTENCE SUCKS, NOT JUST EVE.
I'm only shouting because I've noticed how you've completely ignored everything that I've said in this thread.
Ignoring me won't make me go away, and by failing to address the most salient critiques of your anti-eve trolling just makes you look like a fool.
S
Oh noes, the bastards! Keep on fixing my EVE!
Before you start screaming about "fix first, then add stuff", which is perfectly valid mind you, hear this first. Revelations 2 has already been cut in half in favor of optimizations, fixes and now focuses on improvements to features already in EVE.
Some of you might consider improvements not fixing, so let's address that specifically. Starbase warfare needs improving. It encourages blobbing, it has no intermediate goals, a bastard to manage and could use new structures.
Outpost warfare isn't that dissimilar and needs to be improved. There should also be an upgrade path for them. Do you get my drift? I can mention other current functionality which require improvements, the Corporations and Alliance system, the Contract system, War system and Combat systems (to counter blobs for example).
There are really two kinds of blobs, or maybe just two incarnations of the same blob. The first is the blob that shows up on the map. You've all seen it happen, one sides has twenty ships, so you bring 30 ships. The other side then waits for more people and all of the sudden he has 50. In the end, if you want to accomplish something you need 200 people. To break up the escalation, we need a reason to use a smaller fleet. A small fleet needs to be able to make difference and we need more intermediate goals. However, this is not the blob I'm talking about but rest assured other people are working on it.
The best name for the other kind of blog I've heard is the power ball. It's centered around placing ships in a tight formation, thus becoming the equivalent of a single ship with massive damage and plenty of range. As a result, players can pretty much lock and kill anything instantly.
Don't get me wrong, I like a clean and decisive victory as much as the next man but I'd like to be able to utter "oh $*@#"; before I'm obliterated.
There are a lot of ways in which we can discourage people to blob together in those power balls, area of effect weaponry being the most obvious. We already have a few weapons of this sort, such as smartbombs, ECM bursts, and warp disruption probes. These should discourage people from blobbing together as they would maximize the effectiveness of the attacker using an AoE weapon.
A hint of the type of AOE weapons we've been working on? Think bombs and bursts! You can probably imagine what they do, if not they go boom. More tactical bombs are also scheduled. Remote ECM bursts work pretty much like our current ECM burst except you can target it on someone and it can break lock of ships surrounding that target.
Exposed Starbase Assets. We are opening up the tactical opportunities for smaller attack groups by moving some starbase structures beyond the protective force field. All such eligible structures will receive significant hit point increases, which will include all firepower, electronic warfare, scanning, and tracking arrays; cynosural field jammers and generators; and jump bridge towers.
planned ship balancing changes <<< that would be a "balance"
seriously, if you don't know the difference between "broken" and tweaking/balancing -- g b t w.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?