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I won't play if there is any instancing!
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I don't think you're right there. As far as I recall, the dungeons in WoW have always been instanced. The only thing they had significantly different at release was the lack of battlegrounds.
As for instancing, it's pretty likely that SGW will have instanced areas in one fashion or another. No one wants to be sitting around for weeks waiting for a "camped" spawn to come available like in the days of EQ1's reign. And if they expect to have higher-end graphics (which appears to be the case), they're going to have little to no option other than to have an instancing system similar to that of EQ2, TR, and AoC. It's simply not possible for the number of real-time players to be present in a world with high-end graphics and have it playable. If you want to have the most "open" experience, you're going to have to stick with older games like WoW or EQ1.
Instancing doesn't take away from the massive world, other than to limit the number of players so it's not in the hundreds in one single area (which would lag out nearly any game). WoW even has their own way of dealing with excessive numbers of players by making you wait in a queue to even get into the server. They only support a few hundred simultaneous players per server. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The one thing that developers can't change is how they're customers behave in the game. Sure logically if a boss would give any exp or drops to me because it's not my quest I would logically leave it alone but not all people don't make choices based on logic. Like every other gamer killing stuff that you are able to kill is an instinct. I don't care if you have to kill this boss to get the ultra-super-mega-special weapon I'm gonna take my P-90 blow the living heck out of it and move on my merry way. A bad developer says "oh you freaking idiots you're not playing my game right you don't get any goddamn benefits from doing that don't do it!" A good developer goes "oh it looks like some of my customers are jerks...ah well let's seperate them so they don't have an oppurtunity to that again"
Yea thats pretty much true. I think most developers have noticed that users like to be as interactive as possible so they build that stuff into the game even if it wasnt there original intention.
If the majority of vocal players say "instancing is useless, remove or die" then the developers may remove it. But I don't see that happening for Stargate Worlds or other mmorpgs since removal of instancing doesn't really benefit players and sure as heck makes developers jobs harder. I'm not saying developers shouldn't work for their money but removal of instances does make for alot less variety in gameplay.
Get real. Instancing is here to stay. It is a fantastic storytelling tool, and a great way to give a group a challenging PvE experience.
I would suggest that the OP is not really opposed to instances, but to certain ways they are used or misused.
To prevent farming, a game could have a level cap.
To prevent boredom, a game could have a variety of ways to access top level gear, rather than force players to replay a single instance dozens of times (I'm looking at you, WoW).
Try coming up with alternatives to the things you hate about instances rather than just whining.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Are u stupid? actually i dont think thats fair to those that are stupid, instncing is required to combat lag and on occasion can help tell the story, like does it make sense there are like a billion elves killing spiders in a cave thats meant to be isolated and scary, hell im sure nobody likes instancing that would keep us away from our friends but sometimes if it is shit *cough*AoC*cough*
Lol you should be worried about the plot, the story the gameplay, the music , the graphics (wasnt really impressed with g4 clip, hopefully textures get getter) and most important ly the GRIND, GRIND, GRIND.
THE GRIND MUST BE GOTTEN RID OF AND THE STORY MUST CONTINUE.
Grind and healthy competition for limited resources is good. Instancing and other anti social tools that help promote endless farming are bad.
I sorta do agree that some grind is needed in resource collecting and crafting, and farming does suck ass but sometimes an instance is needed.
Maybe you could ask for 1 server with no instancing? I don't think it would be widely successfull, but it would prolly appeal to a significant amount of players (not me) all while keeping the geekiest progs busy when their designers wonder what to make them do.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well if they don't have instancing they I won't be playing the game. Any game now days without instancing is just primative and backward. From the first day they will be overcrowded and newbie areas will be virtually unplayable. Then later it will be like the cistern in AoC. No thank you!
DEVS ARE YOU LISTENING. No instancing and I'm not playing...
Felt the need to do a counterpoint here cause I really do hate having small overcamped area's in games. Instancing was one of the best things EQ2 every did.
---
Ethion
Good graphics does not mean you need instancing, graphics have nothing to do with network lag. Even wow has zones, but they are server side so you don't notice. On the client it's one big seamless map.
Small zones/instances to break the world up is just a quick and easy way of doing it. The thing that causes the nasty fps lag is when the game has to draw animated player models with billions of polygons at once (silly in an MMO), having a small zone or a big open world will make no difference to this.
IMO, I thought WoW did a good balance of open, shared areas versus the instanced raid areas. I like encountering people like me exploring the world at large. This is something Tabula Rasa lacks due to the small community and the options to play in different world instances (four servers to choose from with, for example, Palisades 1 or Palisades 2 on each server). And Guild Wars went too far, in that the only shared area being cities with the entire world as a private instance.
As others have posted, some things need to be instanced. Having multiple groups trying to raid the same location/bosses in competition with each other is just retarded. Instance the dungeon to keep it private from that kind of spawn camping / competition. What fun is there in getting to the raid location only to find one mob having respawned and the entire rest of the area had already been cleaned out?
I like world pvp, but I like instanced pvp as well.
For all the criticism of World of Warcraft, Blizzard has done a lot of things right, and the overwhelming popularity of the game bears this out. Play other games, and you see what Blizzard did right that other MMOs didn't bother to do.
_______________________
Current Game: nothing
Retired Games: Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Stargate Worlds, Aion, Earthrise
Well I would disagree that WoW's popularity stems from "doing things right." They had the advantage of a large, established fan base of whom many had never played an MMO before, so they were effectively blind to its failings, as well as what it achieved. Now it has just become a social phenomenon; it reached a critical mass of players and snowballed from there. I will agree though that one thing they did design quite well was the balance of instanced vs. public zones.
Yes, there was a Warcraft strategy game fanbase, but WoW had to be well done in order to gain traction in the general population, as it has. And WoW is a polished game that has elements that appeal to a wide audience. I was happy to see that WoW and the Burning Crusade expansion were both solo-friendly. Not many MMOs are. I enjoyed the variety of PvP options, from having pvp servers to world pvp objectives to instanced battlegrounds. WoW gave me lots of different kinds of things to do when I logged on. That is what I mean when I say that Blizzard did a lot of things right. (And I wasn't one of the strategy game fans when I started playing WoW.)
The biggest problem in trying to have a discussion about MMOs is the World of Warcraft penis envy of the non-WoW players. Some people seem to think that by bad mouthing WoW, they will bring players to their favorite game. And it doesn't work that way.
Unfortunately, I don't see much discussion from people like me who played WoW for a while, liked it and enjoyed it -- in my case, for two solid years -- but are now looking for something else instead of or in addition to their WoW habit.
_______________________
Current Game: nothing
Retired Games: Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Stargate Worlds, Aion, Earthrise
aww one less asshat
speaking of it... why would you decide to post your your opinion (joke) here ... .why not post on the sgw forums were you might actually be heard? although it wont help
so might as well give up hope now/
Yes, there was a Warcraft strategy game fanbase, but WoW had to be well done in order to gain traction in the general population, as it has. And WoW is a polished game that has elements that appeal to a wide audience. I was happy to see that WoW and the Burning Crusade expansion were both solo-friendly. Not many MMOs are. I enjoyed the variety of PvP options, from having pvp servers to world pvp objectives to instanced battlegrounds. WoW gave me lots of different kinds of things to do when I logged on. That is what I mean when I say that Blizzard did a lot of things right. (And I wasn't one of the strategy game fans when I started playing WoW.)
The biggest problem in trying to have a discussion about MMOs is the World of Warcraft penis envy of the non-WoW players. Some people seem to think that by bad mouthing WoW, they will bring players to their favorite game. And it doesn't work that way.
Unfortunately, I don't see much discussion from people like me who played WoW for a while, liked it and enjoyed it -- in my case, for two solid years -- but are now looking for something else instead of or in addition to their WoW habit.
Maybe you don't see people like that because you assume anyone with an objective opinion on WoW and isn't blind to its faults has penis-envy and is bad-mouthing the product? I played WoW from launch to shortly after Burning Crusade, when it became apparent to me that the original gameplay I enjoyed was going or gone and would not be coming back. I also played other MMOs for many years before that, so I had quite a bit of experience to draw from in order to analyze what I thought was good about WoW and what was not so good. When I say the game snowballed, I am referring to positive word of mouth driving the game's sales. When one of your best friends recommends something to you, doesn't that opinion count for a lot more than any "features list" possibly ever could when deciding whether or not to make a purchase? That's something Blizzard did and has always done right-- deliver a polished and professional quality product. That does not mean that their game design itself is perfect. Look at the common criticisms of WoW, from the numerous rep grinds to the accessibility of the solo leveling gameplay quickly giving way to a completely different content design philosophy for max level characters, AKA "raid or die."
Anyways, this is getting off topic. Try to not be so paranoid or quick in assuming you know someone's intent with little background info available. You might find discussions to be more productive.
First I wanted to define instancing and stop the confusion for a lot of players.
Instancing is not the same as zoning. Instancing is having a zone, or multiple zones, that are seperated from the rest of the game world, and exist in an instanced part of time for just the character or characters that are currently present in the zone. There cane multiple instances of the same zone overlapping each other. Like each group having their own temporary parallel universe in which to play in.
Zone: a small map or section of a game isolated by a loading screen or some other loading concept, aka a seem. That allows a game world to be broken down into chunks to make it easier for both players and computers to handle. Example: EQ2 maps
Global: a massive zone or area that exists in a seemless world with no or few loading screen. Example: SWG
Public: an area or zone shared by everyone in the game or on that server. Where people can meet and interact. Example: EQ
Persistent: an area or zone that can be modified by players and exist in that modified form for an extended amount of time out side of the original players who modified it being there or not. Example: AoC
Instance: an isolated zone or area only inhabited by a single player or party in which the zone exists outside the normal time flow of the game. Example: GW
Now with that out of the way I feel instancing is a neccesity for two reasons. The first is obvious lag and an over abundance of players. This is a common problem in dungeons in games. A dungeon that is not instanced can quickly become over run with players and these players are forced to fight each other for certain kills, as well it means more data to process in these, usually, more difficult areas.
Second reason is this. In order to create a truly unique, original, and well scripted story based on the chracter you are playing as you need instancing. To draw you out of the world and put you in your own, unaffected by others, for at least part of your story, in order to make in more unique and personal.
Now I understand that to much instancing or instancing done poorly can be a bad thing. Example of this is Guild Wars where every map is instanced. You never run into other players making you feel very isolated from the rest of the world. But with out any instancing you could feel very over run.
So SGW do instancing, I think the game will be better because of it. If it means losing one public zone fanboy, I think it's worth it.
EDIT:
As well in the series themselves there are times when chracters are pushed into alternate realities, parallel worlds, or even just wierd sci-fi concepts where they are isolated from the normal flow of time and can not contact or intereact with people in their own universe. Thus is one game should have instancing it should be this one, it would fit into the entire concept of the series. You get trapped in an alien device by your self and have to find your way out. etc.
BS .. same "popularity" can be said about Star Wars and you know where SWG is right now.
WOW is successful because it goes BEYOND its fan base. In fact, there are probablyl more WOW players than warcraft players.
BS .. same "popularity" can be said about Star Wars and you know where SWG is right now.
WOW is successful because it goes BEYOND its fan base. In fact, there are probablyl more WOW players than warcraft players.
BS .. same "popularity" can be said about Star Wars and you know where SWG is right now.
WOW is successful because it goes BEYOND its fan base. In fact, there are probablyl more WOW players than warcraft players.
Whatever point you were trying to make here, I think you failed.
Vernd:
Hmm. Re-read what I wrote, and you will see I was speaking in general about conversations about MMOs, and not about YOU in particular. Now who's being paranoid?
Back to the topic, I don't see how any modern MMO would not have any instancing. The benefits for players outweigh any perceived negatives.
Jawapet:
I could not agree more with both points.
_______________________
Current Game: nothing
Retired Games: Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Stargate Worlds, Aion, Earthrise
LOL at the noob spreading lies. Just in my guild, there are several professionals.
And I started playing MMO since UO beta, went on to EQ and stuff. WOW is vastly better than these and certainly better than SWG.
It performs better, is more polished, and have tons of content. There is a reason why one game is struggling with sub-100k subscribers and one has 10.9M.
LOL at the noob spreading lies. Just in my guild, there are several professionals.
And I started playing MMO since UO beta, went on to EQ and stuff. WOW is vastly better than these and certainly better than SWG.
It performs better, is more polished, and have tons of content. There is a reason why one game is struggling with sub-100k subscribers and one has 10.9M.
The first thing people will say in response to your comment is that people playing WoW don't look at other games so they don't know what they're missing and how bad WoW really is.
But your point is right, in that there IS a reason why people keep playing WoW. And it isn't ignorance.
_______________________
Current Game: nothing
Retired Games: Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Stargate Worlds, Aion, Earthrise
I don't like instancing. Count me out if there is instancing.