While I don't think there are too many MMORPG's made on the whole I think there are too many of the same type of MMORPG's. While it's okay to hae 20 MMORPG's based in Fantasy, it's a bit tedious and boring to have them all have pretty much the same content. I don't think this is true for all MMORPG's but I find many similarities with most MMORPG's. Start level one. Kill a billions Level 1 monster. Get collection quest. Rinse. Repeat.
While this was fun and exciting in the first game, it loses it's edge and suprise inthe next games. What else do games give you? Zones? Mobs? Sure. but many share the same traits. THere's usually the same Newbie mobs and noobie zones and hardass Mobs/zones. Then expansions come out. After 2 or 3 expansions it's pretty much the same content over and over again (RoK and SoV expansions in EQ where great giving you great zones, mobs, and a vivid storyline, but when SoL came out there was very little story and the mobs/zones got boring fast).
Okay, I'm not going anywhere with this so I'll get off my mini-soapbox.
A bunch of corporations got $ signs in their eyes after seeing the profit made from games like UO, EQ and AC.
Now the MMORPG is being raped, molested, and assimulated by dumbasses like Electronic Arts who Have messed up games like Ultima Online, scrapped projects like UO2 and UO:X, and have canceled games people enjoyed like Earth and Beyond and Battletech 3057(er whatever that numer was).
Their pride and joy is.... heh... The Sims Online. They are in the process of converting UO into a form of TSO as well.
Also another problem is that corporations want stuff they know works... thats why we been playing the same 5 games the last 10 years, since the small time game companies are getting chewed up by them. All the games out now are spinoffs of games that made money.... FPS like Doom and Quake, RTS like Warwind, Warcraft, Dune, Command and Conquer and same goes for the other genres. Nothing new is being brought to the table... no new genres or truly original ideas. The same is happening to the MMORPG game world... thats why we see so many damn elves
These corporations also press on hard deadlines and strict budgets so these clone games that come out with better graphics and less content are a mess of bugs and orifices to be exploited. Even games that arn't mmorpg have a ton of bugs in them at release now. I uninstalled pool of radiance 2 and had to format my hardrive thanks to it haveing a buggy uninstaller lol.
Anyhow I think there is too many MMORPG's being developed. Stuff like Knight Online shouldn't even attempt to come out, in my opinion, since they are just doing an ameteurs job at trying to combine a couple games but leaving out all the stuff that makes those games good.
I think there's a lot of coroporate pressure to put something together to turn a buck. But, the big profits come from games that have a dedicated fanbase and long term staying power. You don't get that by copying other games. You get that by bringing advancing the genre.
So, in my most darwinian and capitalistic perspective, bring on the MMORPGs. Let the junk games die on the wasteland of weak capitalistic gains, while the genre evolves withthe few solid gamers strong enough to survive.
Darwin Rocks!
Ez
EZ
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila" --Mitch Ratliffe
EZ
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila" --Mitch Ratliffe
All these people making their predictions on whats going to be the biggest game makes me laugh. People will flock to the games like WoW and EQ2 due to Name recognition. But will they last? Shadowbane is damn near paying people to play that game now, and Starwars is praying that jump to lightspace might save them.
All these games have done the same thing that EQ started half a decade ago, level treadmill. eq,ac,daoc,sb,SWonline, etc.....
The only game that is coming out that has me drooling with anticipation due to its unique gameplay is Guildwars. I'm suprised to see only 8.7% of the 7500 voters voted this game the most anticipated. WoW took the lead but seriously...... have we all not killed enough mobs in a mmorpg world, and then gone to pvp in huge zergs that run into a city and kill non stop till an opposing zerg shows up to actually create a little bit of fun for 5 minutes?!?!
Finally a game where I can create my character, play with some good friends doing missions that are damn interesting and not put there for the sole purpose of xp. Then going and challenging players around the world with the characters we have developed, and see how we match up. And not having to sit around a city or "pk area" to get some random killing in. Guild Wars may not sell as much as WoW off the bat, but i'll put my money down it ends up being the best MMORPG of this upcoming batch of MMORPGS.
"All these people making their predictions on whats going to be the biggest game makes me laugh. People will flock to the games like WoW and EQ2 due to Name recognition. But will they last? Shadowbane is damn near paying people to play that game now, and Starwars is praying that jump to lightspace might save them. "
Heh I remember all the hype from SWG and shadowbane about how revelutionary they would be, how they were going to be gods of the mmorpg world.... When I see all the hype from people about WoW and EQ2, they are saying the exact same phrases and everything.
I had no interest in either until I saw that all the npc's in EQ2 were going to have speech... that sucked me in knowing that they were putting that much work into it stuff they didnt need to. I am not getting my hopes up and am not spending any time even thinking about it... I'll try it when it gets here, can care less about it untill then.
All this Hype nowdays is nothing but lies and trash talk from people with their fanboy goggles on. Its like I got friend's that will say how they met this fine chick and how they wanna get freaky with her ... then I see her and she is fuglier then a wookie with a poodle cut. Everyone knows guys like that... well there are people just like that but with MMORPGs...
Originally posted by Coldmeat I think the future of MMOs will be a handfull of big name games, like WoW, EQ2, etc. They'll make up the core of the market. The innovation will be will come from indie, and niche games, like Darkfall, that cater to a specific subgenre, gvg warfare/pvp in the case of Darkfall. The smaller games that are profitable on a small playerbase of 50 - 100k are what will push the genre forward, while the flashy big budget stuff like EQ2, and WoW are what will draw new blood in. It's basically the same as the film industry. You have a handfull of summer blockbusters crammed to the gills with flashy cgi effects, and no plot, that draw the masses, and make big bucks, and then you have a slew of indie films that mostly fly under the radar, but are who actually are creating the 'art' in film. Every now and then one of those indie films gets noticed, and finds some magic formula, after which will come a bunch of knockoffs that try to cash in on that, much like what happened with EQ back in the day. The only unkown right now is Guild Wars, which, if succesfull, stands a good chance of changing the way things are done in MMOs. ------- I was never what you wanted, I could never never please. I swallowed all our sorrow in the midst of my disease. All my fortunes, all my gains, all the battles I have won... Now collapsing like the rain, I stand alone, your only son... Take some solace in these words, take notice of this place. Hollow whispers that they are, like the wind upon my face. Sing softly in my ear and look at me with wonder. I will try to ease your fear as the darkness pulls you under.
The difference between films and movies are that movies ussually disappear from the market after a few months and the new wave of blockbusters enter the market. However, in the gaming world MMO's can hog the market for years.
I'd have to agree with rentantilus the sheer volume of cookie cutter mmorpg's out there is staggering. To say there are to many though would be incorrect. Every game that comes out has the chance to bring a few people into the genre and make it stronger as a whole. Ive tried many games due to the fact that the first experience I had with mmoprgs has been both memorable and long lived. I hgihly commend the people taking the time to create the mmorpgs even if they tend to all be the same It's the shining few in the industry that take the games to the next level and keep the torches burning for us.
I agree with Lhex, the difference between movies and mmorpgs, and I guess other genres of games and mmorpg's is their lifespan.
A typical single player with last a few weeks in most households before the next offering comes along. A few of these will gather some long term addicts on the online side (HL - Counter strike still going strong!).
An mmorpg on the other hand aims to suck your life away for years. The commitment required to play these games competitively is enormous and will prove to be one of the major barriers to mass acceptance.
What I would like to see is many diverse smaller games thata are profitable on a 20-50k people it is in those sort of environments where we will see progress. The big blockbusters are simply not willing to risk their massive budgets on something different (since they are a business and have to make the money back) and everyone seems to consider <400k players a failure!
Originally posted by Alreal and everyone seems to consider <400k players a failure!
Actually here are the numbers:
Current cost of making a major MMORPG - $20 million to $25 million. (EQ, AC, cost 5 million to make. AC2 , SWG, EQ2, cost between 20 million to 25 million.)
Intended shelf life of a major MMORPG - 5 years.
Minimum number of player accounts needed to have any chance in heaven or hell of recouping all investment money - 50,000
Number of player accounts for a major MMORPG to be considered a bona fid success - 100,000 (not 300,000 heheh. Though they'd all like to have 300k accounts.)
The problem is not that there are too many MMORPGs, rather that too many MMORPGs are not done right.
For example, SWG for which I beta tested, had a lot of possibilities. Dispite the great background story and huge universe already created, the developers forgot to add content. So the only way to gain levels and credits was to preform missions. As we all know amounded to run to point A, Kill Mob B, and move onto next mission. In beta, there where no NPC Shops, it was all player made from the auction terminal. So you could not sell items for credits nor could find the equipment you needed if it was lower level items. I could go on, but SWG could be a great game, but the developers did not listen to the players.
Another example, EnB. ENB had a lot going for it and would still be going today if EA had invested the marketing required to get EnB off to a good start. Also, if EnB had invested enough to build half of what was originally intended for the game. In this case EA, did not see big returns so cancelled it.
New MMORPGs will have to take a different approach to be successful now. EQ opened a new door on Computer Gaming, but the customer base has grown and changed. New MMORPGs will have to be more customer savy and be dedicated to the long term development of the game. Just my 2 cents.
Comments
While I don't think there are too many MMORPG's made on the whole I think there are too many of the same type of MMORPG's. While it's okay to hae 20 MMORPG's based in Fantasy, it's a bit tedious and boring to have them all have pretty much the same content. I don't think this is true for all MMORPG's but I find many similarities with most MMORPG's. Start level one. Kill a billions Level 1 monster. Get collection quest. Rinse. Repeat.
While this was fun and exciting in the first game, it loses it's edge and suprise inthe next games. What else do games give you? Zones? Mobs? Sure. but many share the same traits. THere's usually the same Newbie mobs and noobie zones and hardass Mobs/zones. Then expansions come out. After 2 or 3 expansions it's pretty much the same content over and over again (RoK and SoV expansions in EQ where great giving you great zones, mobs, and a vivid storyline, but when SoL came out there was very little story and the mobs/zones got boring fast).
Okay, I'm not going anywhere with this so I'll get off my mini-soapbox.
A bunch of corporations got $ signs in their eyes after seeing the profit made from games like UO, EQ and AC.
Now the MMORPG is being raped, molested, and assimulated by dumbasses like Electronic Arts who Have messed up games like Ultima Online, scrapped projects like UO2 and UO:X, and have canceled games people enjoyed like Earth and Beyond and Battletech 3057(er whatever that numer was).
Their pride and joy is.... heh... The Sims Online. They are in the process of converting UO into a form of TSO as well.
Also another problem is that corporations want stuff they know works... thats why we been playing the same 5 games the last 10 years, since the small time game companies are getting chewed up by them. All the games out now are spinoffs of games that made money.... FPS like Doom and Quake, RTS like Warwind, Warcraft, Dune, Command and Conquer and same goes for the other genres. Nothing new is being brought to the table... no new genres or truly original ideas. The same is happening to the MMORPG game world... thats why we see so many damn elves
These corporations also press on hard deadlines and strict budgets so these clone games that come out with better graphics and less content are a mess of bugs and orifices to be exploited. Even games that arn't mmorpg have a ton of bugs in them at release now. I uninstalled pool of radiance 2 and had to format my hardrive thanks to it haveing a buggy uninstaller lol.
Anyhow I think there is too many MMORPG's being developed. Stuff like Knight Online shouldn't even attempt to come out, in my opinion, since they are just doing an ameteurs job at trying to combine a couple games but leaving out all the stuff that makes those games good.
- GRAFFiX -
Mostly Harmless Guild ♦ Youtube ♦ Sponsored by Mr. Beer
I think there's a lot of coroporate pressure to put something together to turn a buck. But, the big profits come from games that have a dedicated fanbase and long term staying power. You don't get that by copying other games. You get that by bringing advancing the genre.
So, in my most darwinian and capitalistic perspective, bring on the MMORPGs. Let the junk games die on the wasteland of weak capitalistic gains, while the genre evolves withthe few solid gamers strong enough to survive.
Darwin Rocks!
EZ
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila" --Mitch Ratliffe
EZ
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history -- with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila" --Mitch Ratliffe
All these people making their predictions on whats going to be the biggest game makes me laugh. People will flock to the games like WoW and EQ2 due to Name recognition. But will they last? Shadowbane is damn near paying people to play that game now, and Starwars is praying that jump to lightspace might save them.
All these games have done the same thing that EQ started half a decade ago, level treadmill. eq,ac,daoc,sb,SWonline, etc.....
The only game that is coming out that has me drooling with anticipation due to its unique gameplay is Guildwars. I'm suprised to see only 8.7% of the 7500 voters voted this game the most anticipated. WoW took the lead but seriously...... have we all not killed enough mobs in a mmorpg world, and then gone to pvp in huge zergs that run into a city and kill non stop till an opposing zerg shows up to actually create a little bit of fun for 5 minutes?!?!
Finally a game where I can create my character, play with some good friends doing missions that are damn interesting and not put there for the sole purpose of xp. Then going and challenging players around the world with the characters we have developed, and see how we match up. And not having to sit around a city or "pk area" to get some random killing in. Guild Wars may not sell as much as WoW off the bat, but i'll put my money down it ends up being the best MMORPG of this upcoming batch of MMORPGS.
"All these people making their predictions on whats going to be the biggest game makes me laugh. People will flock to the games like WoW and EQ2 due to Name recognition. But will they last? Shadowbane is damn near paying people to play that game now, and Starwars is praying that jump to lightspace might save them. "
Heh I remember all the hype from SWG and shadowbane about how revelutionary they would be, how they were going to be gods of the mmorpg world.... When I see all the hype from people about WoW and EQ2, they are saying the exact same phrases and everything.
I had no interest in either until I saw that all the npc's in EQ2 were going to have speech... that sucked me in knowing that they were putting that much work into it stuff they didnt need to. I am not getting my hopes up and am not spending any time even thinking about it... I'll try it when it gets here, can care less about it untill then.
All this Hype nowdays is nothing but lies and trash talk from people with their fanboy goggles on. Its like I got friend's that will say how they met this fine chick and how they wanna get freaky with her ... then I see her and she is fuglier then a wookie with a poodle cut. Everyone knows guys like that... well there are people just like that but with MMORPGs...
- GRAFFiX -
Mostly Harmless Guild ♦ Youtube ♦ Sponsored by Mr. Beer
I agree with Lhex, the difference between movies and mmorpgs, and I guess other genres of games and mmorpg's is their lifespan.
A typical single player with last a few weeks in most households before the next offering comes along. A few of these will gather some long term addicts on the online side (HL - Counter strike still going strong!).
An mmorpg on the other hand aims to suck your life away for years. The commitment required to play these games competitively is enormous and will prove to be one of the major barriers to mass acceptance.
What I would like to see is many diverse smaller games thata are profitable on a 20-50k people it is in those sort of environments where we will see progress. The big blockbusters are simply not willing to risk their massive budgets on something different (since they are a business and have to make the money back) and everyone seems to consider <400k players a failure!
Actually here are the numbers:
Current cost of making a major MMORPG - $20 million to $25 million. (EQ, AC, cost 5 million to make. AC2 , SWG, EQ2, cost between 20 million to 25 million.)
Intended shelf life of a major MMORPG - 5 years.
Minimum number of player accounts needed to have any chance in heaven or hell of recouping all investment money - 50,000
Number of player accounts for a major MMORPG to be considered a bona fid success - 100,000 (not 300,000 heheh. Though they'd all like to have 300k accounts.)
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
EVE Online !!!
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http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
The problem is not that there are too many MMORPGs, rather that too many MMORPGs are not done right.
For example, SWG for which I beta tested, had a lot of possibilities. Dispite the great background story and huge universe already created, the developers forgot to add content. So the only way to gain levels and credits was to preform missions. As we all know amounded to run to point A, Kill Mob B, and move onto next mission. In beta, there where no NPC Shops, it was all player made from the auction terminal. So you could not sell items for credits nor could find the equipment you needed if it was lower level items. I could go on, but SWG could be a great game, but the developers did not listen to the players.
Another example, EnB. ENB had a lot going for it and would still be going today if EA had invested the marketing required to get EnB off to a good start. Also, if EnB had invested enough to build half of what was originally intended for the game. In this case EA, did not see big returns so cancelled it.
New MMORPGs will have to take a different approach to be successful now. EQ opened a new door on Computer Gaming, but the customer base has grown and changed. New MMORPGs will have to be more customer savy and be dedicated to the long term development of the game. Just my 2 cents.
Good luck and have fun.