Originally posted by rothkaigen Anyone tried Neverwinter Nights? It's a smaller scaled game i think, but it is still fun. It is more story driven, and uses D&D tabletop rules. If there were only a larger community based world, I think it would be very cool for just about anyone.
--- Pure time sinks where accepted in early mmorpgs because they simply where not perceived as such. Now time has gone past and time sinks need to be rapped up much neater else they now would be perceived as "outdated way to make up for lack of content."
--- Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
--- Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
Well if you take everquest for instance majority of the fun places are at the highest level.But the grind to get there is totally insane which makes it tiresome for anyone that has a job.
Most mmorpg have a level sort of grind even if its i another form or other.
However,if you want a mmorpg with instant gratification then you might have to go for a MMOFPS which is planetside.
It is the only MMO i know of you can step out as a newbie hit instant action and go kill a BR20 CR5 veteran guy in the first minute of play.
But really there is always a sort of grind in MMORPG.I mean think of it this way if you make a new character and go kill said dragon A ,in 2 months the game will be a ghost town because everyone done everything.
Which is one of the draw backs of the SWG combat.You can become a master Creature handler in 2 weeks easy and go kill the hardest stuff around.
I totally agree that games should not be designed purely for grinding espically since many of the original MMO crowd have now left school/university and are working class now.However,what i like to see is more content for mid level crowd .And then those that want to be the leet guys can go on doing their thing and we mid level guys that have little time can still have fun.
-=-=-=-=- "We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..." John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
WHOA!!! Thanks psibot!! I checked those sites out that you were talking about, and if they come anywhere near what they seem to be on screen, i may have found my next game!! Thanks for the info!
Originally posted by rothkaigen WHOA!!! Thanks psibot!! I checked those sites out that you were talking about, and if they come anywhere near what they seem to be on screen, i may have found my next game!! Thanks for the info!
Gald you like the Info
I am too very intersting what they make of it. They sure have an angle of approach which I prefer and the setting nearly force them onto spot. Now the only question I have how far will they be able to go and what will they make of the base material.
btw if you intersted in more info about DDO or LAO their are some interviews floating about at http://www.gamebanshee.com/ and other sites.
Cu then In Game as always ill be the "Ugly Dungeon Guide" hrhrhr.
--- Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
--- Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
I doubt that there exist MMORPGs nowthat has no level grind, most of them has got the same system with level up, xp and hp/mana.
But there is a upcoming game that looks very intresting. The name is Guildwars.
Areanet quote: "We want a game where you can have fun, instead of prepearing to have fun"
I've played the E3 for everyone demo and I was stunned. This game was the most fun game i've ever tried since Half Life. The game is powered by an advanced streaming technology engine and the rendering engine is absoulutely awsome. The best part is that there is no Monthly fee, it can be run on dail-up, and there is NO GRIND whatsoever.
SWG despite of its shortcomings is not that much of a level grind, as long as you dont want to be a jedi first thing.. will change that too soon when they introduce the new jedi trials stuff, might be a grind that too it remains to be seen hehe
Most of the non-grind games arent that fun to most ppl that liked the oldskool mmorpg concept. You want to be uberer than the next person and progress your characters every facet, and the only way to do that is to have levels that take some thought and time spent on it. The biggest problem is to merge the level grind with the content so that you get to do fun stuffs while levelling, its just that theres just so many different quests you can do.
Even if theres options to killing the same mob over and over and over to level, players will ALWAYS choose the mob/spawn/quest/tradeskill that gives the most exp/time, independant of if its a casual player or a hardcore supermegamonkey. So in the end even with unlimited content youll be whacking that npc with a hatchet to gain lumberjacking, killing naffs, hecklers, cow-level, boots-quest, and so on and so on...
And in response to Wicked_edge UO might not be a level grind, but it damn well is a grind ^^ Ever try to get 120 in magic resist nee? Might have changed now but dont think so, havent played it for 1½ years...
Currently im playing World of Pirates, and having fun. Its a kind of money/level grind but nothing ive done so far has driven me away from content to just get levels/money, thats kinda the content in itself. You trade and fight your way thru the pirate-infested waters and thats how you get 'levels', which is what i want to do anyway so... ^^ its fugly but try it out.
ps. Whoooahh thank god i did ctrl-c this time, damn error forum bug bleh lol
And nuxtor is talking teh tru. Guild wars seem to be the next big thing actually. But i read an interview with someone by someone () and he stated that GW uses a super-duper server system that doesnt just send the character coordinates but that it sends the direction and speed instead to battle the big green lag-monster. Ehhhh wtf games have been doing that since quake lol. Just a sidenote hehe, just hope that the view-range of players n mobs in GW will be longer than 40m...
Not all level based games are a grind. Anarchy Online, EQ, and dark age of camelot arn't a grind unless you make them a grind, you can craft/explore/roleplay/hangout/chat or whatever you want. What im saying is a grind is what you make it, don't burn yourself out on having to get the next level before some other guy. If you spend your whole time ingame only wanting the next level or item. then all youll going to get in the end is the wanting more levels and items. Enjoy your time ingame and level as you play.
As for a non leveling based game, face of mankind dosn't have levels, also social games like second life and there (there SUCKS dont try it)
Shadowbane and Neocron are the best examples of games that have a "grind" but you can cap your character in a week or less of play. Endgame its all about PvP and landcontrol.
In the end a good guild can make any game a good game.
Originally posted by Selek Not all level based games are a grind. Anarchy Online, EQ, and dark age of camelot arn't a grind unless you make them a grind, you can craft/explore/roleplay/hangout/chat or whatever you want. What im saying is a grind is what you make it, don't burn yourself out on having to get the next level before some other guy. If you spend your whole time ingame only wanting the next level or item. then all youll going to get in the end is the wanting more levels and items. Enjoy your time ingame and level as you play. As for a non leveling based game, face of mankind dosn't have levels, also social games like second life and there (there SUCKS dont try it) Shadowbane and Neocron are the best examples of games that have a "grind" but you can cap your character in a week or less of play. Endgame its all about PvP and landcontrol. In the end a good guild can make any game a good game.
-Selek
Never played AO soi am taking that out of the equation but all the other games which you say arent a grind are nothing but a grind. For example DAoC, you can fight, which is boring; you can craft, which is boring; or you can chat/hangout, which is a waste of money and there is no reason to buy a game just to 'hang out' you can do that in a chat room or in the real world. Yes chatting on games us fun but its not really a part of the game which you can 'do'.
Basically the grind is when the point of the game is to do repetitive or boring tasks. The point of DAoC is to kill stuff in order to level. There is no fun to be had at low levels that can be taken from the actual game, the only fun can be taken from luckily finding a guild with fun members. Same with EQ and all the other games. There is nothing in the games that can be described as fun, apart from the interaction part. But that just kind of makes them themed chat rooms.
There is simply no game without a grind that i know of, because all the tasks are either endlessly repetative or boring, or both. Games need to constantly give you new things to do, so that you dont get bored. And MMORPGs should, but dont do that.
And you say the point of games such as Neocron and Shadowbane is to level quickly and then PvP, i agree. Which is why i dont see how they should be even classed as RPG games. They are action games because the whole levelling part is made more or less redundant and something to be rushed through in order to play the game. Thats like buying quake but having to wait a week just watching before you actually get to play.
And a good guild can make any game fun, but again its a waste of money, if you got those same people together and had a big MSN chat themed on some roleplaying topic then you would have exactly the same experience, but without the monthly fee. Or in fact it woudl be more fun if you all played a single player RPG and had a teleconference talking about the game!
Basically until a company develops a game whereby fighting/ crafting and getting to a high level are just a few of the things that you cah do in a game, as opposed to being the point of the game, all games are going to continue to be grinds. Or as with most of the games currently are going to be claiming the title of RPG's when they simply dont deserve it!
Not all level based games are a grind. Anarchy Online, EQ, and dark age of camelot arn't a grind unless you make them a grind,
- In EQ you MUST grind and level up if you want to explore, attempt to craft. What little crafting their is in EQ involves killing monsters to get drops. If you want to buy crafting parts from players, to get the plat to buy it guess what you have to do? Wnat to explore? Better grind as fast as you can to roughly level 46 or else you will be dying left and right. At 46 you at least have a chance to survive while running from monsters in 75% of all the zones.
- In AO there is a grind, but it is not as rushed. Nor not needed to do as immediatly after you make your character. You really can explore the game world within the first 2 days of making your character. It is easy to get up to level 25 in 2 days. (playing roughly 5-8 hours each day.) It is much better than in EQ. Especially once you get your spaceship/plane. I explored the entire gameworld when I was rougly level 25. I ran from virtually every single monster, but I had a chance. (I later came back and slayed every single Giant 3 story tall spider I used to run from LOL!). Impossible to do in EQ.
Crafting in AO is far better than in EQ. But it is still incompleated. I think the AO game DEVs gave up on implementing 100% of all their crafting ideas. In EQ no one wants to buy anything a new player crafts. AND any stuff a new player crafts is also useless to the new player. In AO at least the stuff a new player crafts WILL be usefull to him/her.
- DAoC was created with the intention to engage in PvP. The game was primarily advertised around its PvP features. Want to have the best chances of success in PvP? Darn skimpy straight you have to grind! Grind like a motherflower!! Anyone who plays DAoC not wanting to PvP would be better off playing EQ LOLOL! Kind of like a person buying the new Farrarri that can do 220 mph (the one with the auto start) and never taking it higher than 55 mph. It is a waste of the intentions behind the car. A waste of 70% of the technology in the car. It would be a waste of 70% of the game features in DAoC to not engage in PvP. Crafting in DAoC is better than in EQ, but is not a strong point. There are some aspects done nice, but they do not outweight the weaknesses. SWG right now has the best crafting system out of every MMORPG. UO gets nice mention... then again SWG is unofficially UO2.
you can craft/explore/roleplay/hangout/chat or whatever you want.
No one is going to craft if what they craft is useless, no one else wants to buy it, or they can't compeat vs the veteran crafters. That is why crafting in EQ is non-existant for new players, low level players, and mid level players. That is why crafting in AO is better than in EQ, but is still incomplete. That is why crafting in SWG is the best out of every MMORPG. Roleplaying I agree can be done in any MMORPG - as long as the RPers are strong enough to not get slain in 50% of the game heheh.
What im saying is a grind is what you make it, don't burn yourself out on having to get the next level before some other guy. If you spend your whole time ingame only wanting the next level or item. then all youll going to get in the end is the wanting more levels and items. Enjoy your time ingame and level as you play.
Grinds are needed, necessary. The real question should be, how can the "grind" aka treadmill, aka catassing, be made more fun. AO made it more fun by having random dungeons. SWG made it more fun by having random locations, and random MOBs spawn along the way to missions and dungeons. EVE made it more fun by allowing players to train while offline aka not being stuck having no life.
Grinding has been talked about in excruciating detail by the WoW game DEVs and by a little ranter named Anyuzer on his homesite. A better, and more technical term for grinding is CATASSING. Like it or not, it is the hardcore gamers who are the core pillars of every MMORPG. They are the most vocal, engage in WOMA the most and quickest, (Word Of Mouth Advertising), most adamant fans/fanboys/fangirls. Every title has a hardcore fanbase. Many newer 4th generation MMORPGs are trying to push the envelope in dealing with grinding, thinking exactly about what the poster who started this thread.
AO was the first MMORPG (it's a 3rd generation MMORPG) to take action vs grinding. By allowing players to make the game revolve around their time. Instead of like in EQ, DAoC, UO, in which players are forced to make their time revolve around the game. In AO if a player has 1 hour to play, they can customize the game to fit their playstyle. They will not level as fast as someone with 8 hours to play, but they will be able to get something done, get access to the same "phat l00t". SWG took what AO did and went even further. In SWG a 1 month old player has a perfect chance to kill and slay a 1 year old veteran player. A 1 year old veteran player is not automatically invencible to any player. I will admit SWG, and AO in some ways, took their "war" on grinding to the extreem. But it had to be done because in order to push the envelope, experimentation is needed.
MMORPGs are great for pushing the envelope because they can be constantly changed, re-changed. As long as the game DEVs make an effort to continously listen to the players. SWG while in developement was the most perfect example of constant communication between the game DEVs and players. WoW right now while in developement is another nice example of constant communication between the game DEVs and the players.
It's all about finding out new ways to make the grind more fun. Then it becomes less of a grind. Like you having a job you love. How Stan Lee does not feel like he is going to work or is "a slave to the grind" from day 1 when he started Marvel Comics in his garage. Because the "grind" was fun. Thus it was either less of a grind, or no longer a grind.
As for a non leveling based game, face of mankind dosn't have levels, also social games like second life and there (there SUCKS dont try it)
A game without levels can still have a grind. SWG has no levels. Yet there is still a grind. Less of a grind vs other MMORPGs, but it is still there.
Shadowbane and Neocron are the best examples of games that have a "grind" but you can cap your character in a week or less of play. Endgame its all about PvP and landcontrol.
Same with in AO, which has far better PvP features than SB. (I do not know how PvP in Neocron is since I never played it.) SB suffers from the same failed PvP mechanics in DAoC. The losing side simply waits for the winning side to log off, then take what they lost LOL! Not so in AO SWG potientially could have the best PvP of all, but they have yet to work on it more aka make a reason to PvP aka PvP for landcontrol, PvP that allows the winners to affect the game map, showing physical ramifications of their win.
But there IS a grind in SB. And it is simular to in DAoC. It is a rush. Even more than in EQ because the goal is to PvP. The only way to PvP successfuly is reach highest level soon as possible, get the phat l00t soon as possible aka have no life as much as possible.
In the end a good guild can make any game a good game.
-Selek
That is a horrible point. Why should players be forced to be in "a good guild". "Good guild" = be in an uber guild with members who have no life. Like the Crusaders of Pleto in EQ. One of the most uber, hardcore, guilds in any MMORPG. Anyone who is a member has full access to 100% of the game. They come into zones and litterally take over. Forcing solo players to log off. And forcing other "good guilds" that happen to be smaller to log off. No MMORPG will survive forcing players to be in a "good guild". That is why EQ2 is trying to learn from EQ and steer clear of that. Last, even a "good guild" can only have so many members. What if a player is in a different time zone than them? If they already have enough members? If a player does not have enough free time like the rest of the guild members? Gets kicked because they missed a few raids, gatherings, due to having a real life?
There are MMOGs with no level grind or other gameplay features in focus. Could be many more, but a few exist:
-EVE Online
-World War II Online
-Second Life
-Sims Online
- A Tale in the Desert
--------------------------------------------- Costy Stosstrupp Gold a german speaking World War II Online allied squad 110th Infantry Regiment 2 DINA, III Corps, ArFr, AHC
----------------------------------- Life is too short to play bad games.
Originally posted by Costy There are MMOGs with no level grind or other gameplay features in focus. Could be many more, but a few exist: -EVE Online -World War II Online -Second Life -Sims Online - A Tale in the Desert
--------------------------------------------- Costy Stosstrupp Gold a german speaking World War II Online allied squad 110th Infantry Regiment 2 DINA, III Corps, ArFr, AHC
All games which should not fall under the umberella of RPG's! Levelling yes, roleplaying no.
Originally posted by Costy There are MMOGs with no level grind or other gameplay features in focus. Could be many more, but a few exist: -EVE Online -World War II Online -Second Life -Sims Online - A Tale in the Desert
All games which should not fall under the umberella of RPG's! Levelling yes, roleplaying no.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
I beg to differ, Sims Online has lots of role playing. From what I gathered when i tried it at a friends 90% of the players are all models and have the opposite sex throwing themselves at them Now thats some role playing
Originally posted by Costy There are MMOGs with no level grind or other gameplay features in focus. Could be many more, but a few exist: -EVE Online -World War II Online -Second Life -Sims Online - A Tale in the Desert
All games which should not fall under the umberella of RPG's! Levelling yes, roleplaying no.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
I beg to differ, Sims Online has lots of role playing. From what I gathered when i tried it at a friends 90% of the players are all models and have the opposite sex throwing themselves at them Now thats some role playing
The SIMS shouldnt even be a game never mind a role palying game, its dolls for people who dont have dolls. And should be a criminal offence never mind an RPG. Dont stain the genre by even talking about it. You'll be asking for a harry potter MMORPG next!
Edit: having actually read the other words in your post apart from 'sims online'my new comment should be - lol
Comments
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Have an look at Dungeons & Dragons® Online it mite be something you be looking forward to or maybe Lejendary Adventure just for info if they past you without seeing...
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Pure time sinks where accepted in early mmorpgs because they simply where not perceived as such. Now time has gone past and time sinks need to be rapped up much neater else they now would be perceived as "outdated way to make up for lack of content."
---
Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
---
Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
Well if you take everquest for instance majority of the fun places are at the highest level.But the grind to get there is totally insane which makes it tiresome for anyone that has a job.
Most mmorpg have a level sort of grind even if its i another form or other.
However,if you want a mmorpg with instant gratification then you might have to go for a MMOFPS which is planetside.
It is the only MMO i know of you can step out as a newbie hit instant action and go kill a BR20 CR5 veteran guy in the first minute of play.
But really there is always a sort of grind in MMORPG.I mean think of it this way if you make a new character and go kill said dragon A ,in 2 months the game will be a ghost town because everyone done everything.
Which is one of the draw backs of the SWG combat.You can become a master Creature handler in 2 weeks easy and go kill the hardest stuff around.
I totally agree that games should not be designed purely for grinding espically since many of the original MMO crowd have now left school/university and are working class now.However,what i like to see is more content for mid level crowd .And then those that want to be the leet guys can go on doing their thing and we mid level guys that have little time can still have fun.
hercules hit the nail on the head
-=-=-=-=-
"We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..."
John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
Gald you like the Info
I am too very intersting what they make of it. They sure have an angle of approach which I prefer and the setting nearly force them onto spot. Now the only question I have how far will they be able to go and what will they make of the base material.
btw if you intersted in more info about DDO or LAO their are some interviews floating about at http://www.gamebanshee.com/ and other sites.
Cu then In Game as always ill be the "Ugly Dungeon Guide" hrhrhr.
---
Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
---
Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
I doubt that there exist MMORPGs nowthat has no level grind, most of them has got the same system with level up, xp and hp/mana.
But there is a upcoming game that looks very intresting. The name is Guildwars.
Areanet quote: "We want a game where you can have fun, instead of prepearing to have fun"
I've played the E3 for everyone demo and I was stunned. This game was the most fun game i've ever tried since Half Life. The game is powered by an advanced streaming technology engine and the rendering engine is absoulutely awsome. The best part is that there is no Monthly fee, it can be run on dail-up, and there is NO GRIND whatsoever.
Check: http://www.guildwars.com for more info and screens
SWG despite of its shortcomings is not that much of a level grind, as long as you dont want to be a jedi first thing.. will change that too soon when they introduce the new jedi trials stuff, might be a grind that too it remains to be seen hehe
Most of the non-grind games arent that fun to most ppl that liked the oldskool mmorpg concept. You want to be uberer than the next person and progress your characters every facet, and the only way to do that is to have levels that take some thought and time spent on it. The biggest problem is to merge the level grind with the content so that you get to do fun stuffs while levelling, its just that theres just so many different quests you can do.
Even if theres options to killing the same mob over and over and over to level, players will ALWAYS choose the mob/spawn/quest/tradeskill that gives the most exp/time, independant of if its a casual player or a hardcore supermegamonkey. So in the end even with unlimited content youll be whacking that npc with a hatchet to gain lumberjacking, killing naffs, hecklers, cow-level, boots-quest, and so on and so on...
And in response to Wicked_edge UO might not be a level grind, but it damn well is a grind ^^ Ever try to get 120 in magic resist nee?
Might have changed now but dont think so, havent played it for 1½ years...
Currently im playing World of Pirates, and having fun. Its a kind of money/level grind but nothing ive done so far has driven me away from content to just get levels/money, thats kinda the content in itself. You trade and fight your way thru the pirate-infested waters and thats how you get 'levels', which is what i want to do anyway so... ^^ its fugly but try it out.
ps. Whoooahh thank god i did ctrl-c this time, damn error forum bug bleh lol
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Not all level based games are a grind. Anarchy Online, EQ, and dark age of camelot arn't a grind unless you make them a grind, you can craft/explore/roleplay/hangout/chat or whatever you want. What im saying is a grind is what you make it, don't burn yourself out on having to get the next level before some other guy. If you spend your whole time ingame only wanting the next level or item. then all youll going to get in the end is the wanting more levels and items. Enjoy your time ingame and level as you play.
As for a non leveling based game, face of mankind dosn't have levels, also social games like second life and there (there SUCKS dont try it)
Shadowbane and Neocron are the best examples of games that have a "grind" but you can cap your character in a week or less of play. Endgame its all about PvP and landcontrol.
In the end a good guild can make any game a good game.
-Selek
-Selek
Never played AO soi am taking that out of the equation but all the other games which you say arent a grind are nothing but a grind. For example DAoC, you can fight, which is boring; you can craft, which is boring; or you can chat/hangout, which is a waste of money and there is no reason to buy a game just to 'hang out' you can do that in a chat room or in the real world. Yes chatting on games us fun but its not really a part of the game which you can 'do'.
Basically the grind is when the point of the game is to do repetitive or boring tasks. The point of DAoC is to kill stuff in order to level. There is no fun to be had at low levels that can be taken from the actual game, the only fun can be taken from luckily finding a guild with fun members. Same with EQ and all the other games. There is nothing in the games that can be described as fun, apart from the interaction part. But that just kind of makes them themed chat rooms.
There is simply no game without a grind that i know of, because all the tasks are either endlessly repetative or boring, or both. Games need to constantly give you new things to do, so that you dont get bored. And MMORPGs should, but dont do that.
And you say the point of games such as Neocron and Shadowbane is to level quickly and then PvP, i agree. Which is why i dont see how they should be even classed as RPG games. They are action games because the whole levelling part is made more or less redundant and something to be rushed through in order to play the game. Thats like buying quake but having to wait a week just watching before you actually get to play.
And a good guild can make any game fun, but again its a waste of money, if you got those same people together and had a big MSN chat themed on some roleplaying topic then you would have exactly the same experience, but without the monthly fee. Or in fact it woudl be more fun if you all played a single player RPG and had a teleconference talking about the game!
Basically until a company develops a game whereby fighting/ crafting and getting to a high level are just a few of the things that you cah do in a game, as opposed to being the point of the game, all games are going to continue to be grinds. Or as with most of the games currently are going to be claiming the title of RPG's when they simply dont deserve it!
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
EVE Online !!!
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http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
There are MMOGs with no level grind or other gameplay features in focus. Could be many more, but a few exist:
-EVE Online
-World War II Online
-Second Life
-Sims Online
- A Tale in the Desert
---------------------------------------------
Costy
Stosstrupp Gold
a german speaking World War II Online allied squad
110th Infantry Regiment
2 DINA, III Corps, ArFr, AHC
-----------------------------------
Life is too short to play bad games.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
I beg to differ, Sims Online has lots of role playing. From what I gathered when i tried it at a friends 90% of the players are all models and have the opposite sex throwing themselves at them
Now thats some role playing
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
I beg to differ, Sims Online has lots of role playing. From what I gathered when i tried it at a friends 90% of the players are all models and have the opposite sex throwing themselves at them
Now thats some role playing
The SIMS shouldnt even be a game never mind a role palying game, its dolls for people who dont have dolls. And should be a criminal offence never mind an RPG. Dont stain the genre by even talking about it. You'll be asking for a harry potter MMORPG next!
Edit: having actually read the other words in your post apart from 'sims online'my new comment should be - lol
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHAHA