Where did God come from? He is. He was. He will be. Fact is, whether you believe in God or not, you must believe in the faith of infinite/eternity. Something had to always exist, or we do not exist. Time is a measurement man has used to more or less measure the movement of molecules, the ability to pace the constant change of the universe. Something was before time. Something has always existed.
You can't explain infinite, because we are finite beings. So you can't explain the existance of God.
God doesn't inflict pain. We inflict pain upon ourselves. In fact, God gave us two great gifts, redemption, and free will, it's like winning the lottery. The trick is, is that we have to use the second one, to get the first one. Pain and suffering is the antithesis of God, the further we are away from him, the further we delve into pain.
For God to force his will on us, his will of peace, love, and health, would make it artificial. God is not a dictator, someone who forces others to his will. Otherwise you would not be having this conversation.
What do you define as a god? That's the question.
In the hebrew language that was translated into the old testament bible, many times what they translated into God, was actually the hebrew word elohim, the plural version of eloha. Which would explain why in genesis there is a line that says, "Let *us* make man in *our* own image". There are many beings that have god-like powers. But there is only one YHVH, and there is only one savior, one son of the infinite, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient God.
The above text in red was a beautiful response. It was a very well thought out explanation of belief in a god.
However, the white text is where I cannot follow. It, as any other similar wordage, explains religion. There were many religions before the, for simplicity, Jewish religion. The Jewish religion, along with many others, borrowed text from other sources - Akhenaten for monotheistic beliefs, the Code of Hamurabi for the commandments and the Epic of Gilgamesh for the story of Noah, for example. The point of religion was to add a strict code of conduct which one must follow. IF one did not follow, then they would possibly lose both their mortal life and soul.
Satan was not viewed as "evil" in the Bible until the New Testament. The true meaning of Satan can be understood in the story of Job. Unfortunately the story presented in church and in Sunday school always portrays Satan as this evil entity wishing to inflict harm upon Job for the sake of being, well, evil. A brief history of what Satan actually means can be read here.
Finally, to add, there was never a heaven or hell defined in the Torah (the Old Testament). There was Sheol, where all spirits dwelt.
Where did God come from? He is. He was. He will be. Fact is, whether you believe in God or not, you must believe in the faith of infinite/eternity.
I can't fathom eternity, so why must I have faith in it?
Something had to always exist, or we do not exist. Time is a measurement man has used to more or less measure the movement of molecules, the ability to pace the constant change of the universe. Something was before time. Something has always existed.
Baseless speculation about that which you can't comprehend or know.
You can't explain infinite, because we are finite beings. So you can't explain the existance of God.
You seem to be trying.
God doesn't inflict pain.
Sodom and Gomorrah?
We inflict pain upon ourselves. In fact, God gave us two great gifts, redemption, and free will, it's like winning the lottery. The trick is, is that we have to use the second one, to get the first one. Pain and suffering is the antithesis of God, the further we are away from him, the further we delve into pain.
Baseless speculation.
For God to force his will on us, his will of peace, love, and health, would make it artificial. God is not a dictator, someone who forces others to his will. Otherwise you would not be having this conversation.
God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omni-fillinthebank. We don't have free will if such a God exists. Ultimately, he knows the outcome.
What do you define as a god? That's the question.
Now a quick question that I'm sure you've heard plenty of times: Why did God create those that he ultimately knows are going to burn in hell for not worshipping him? Seems selfish and egotistical to me.
Originally posted by modjoe86 Why did God create those that he ultimately knows are going to burn in hell for not worshipping him? Seems selfish and egotistical to me.
Now a quick question that I'm sure you've heard plenty of times: Why did God create those that he ultimately knows are going to burn in hell for not worshipping him? Seems selfish and egotistical to me.
I once heard that the nature of God is a stand-up comic playing to a room that's too afraid to laugh.
The most important part of reading is reading between the lines.
God has always been and will always will be. And no you will never be able to understand that, we live in a world where everything has a beginning and an end that concept is foreign to our brains, it won't understand that, just like we can't understand infinity. We are finite beings with finite minds.
God doesn't inflict pain and suffering on us, What you need to do, is research and read your bible a little more and you'll understand. we're at war, Satan is the one inflicting pain i'll give you a scripture to prove it....
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ephesians 6:12
our pain and suffering is a result of the fall of adam, because of what he did in the garden sin entered mankind and death and all the terrible things we see now days. satan decieved adam into giving him all authority in Earth making satan the ruler of this world and because of that all those that are born are under his authority. all of what we experience is a result of sin. God sent his son to save us, satan had us in bondage and darkness. Jesus defeated satan and all those that accept jesus are free from satans grip and escape Gods judgment. its easy all you have to do is believe.
Healing is a fickle subject its very deep and there are many ways healing happens and doesn't happen, it is never guaranteed to be instantaneous, just because it doesn't happen right then doesn't mean it won't. i've seen people gradually get better over weeks/months/years i've also seen it instantaneously.
I"ll pose this question to you, if there is no God how do people get healed? If there is no God how come people throughout all time have stories of Angels/Demons stories of the afterlife, visions and sitings of Supernatural events. If there is no God how come we exist, the univers and creation is the biggest example of divine architecture. You don't look at a building and say wow it evolved from a rock, you say who was the architect and builder? There was an architect and builder of the Universe, that is just plain common sense, if you don't believe that then you are violating your conscience, for everyone is created knowing there is a creator and a God that is why religion will never be blotted out, there is always a divine influence. Fact is, there is a God he loves you and wants to know you. He has set you free all you have to do is believe in him and sincerely want to know him, he is offering you blessing and protection and rightstanding with the kingdom of God and forgiveness of all your tresspasses.
Now a quick question that I'm sure you've heard plenty of times: Why did God create those that he ultimately knows are going to burn in hell for not worshipping him? Seems selfish and egotistical to me.
I've always found the story of Paradise Lost to be fascinating. The idea being that the Judeo-Christian God is actually a tyrant that created man soley to serve his own interests, with Satan as the tragic anti-hero who attempts to overthrow the tyrant king, and being unsuccesful at it is cast into Hell from where he plots the corruption of mankind as a way of getting back at the tyrant.
There are some who really do believe that if there is a god, then that god is actually malicious and manipulative. And if you think that, then the idea of a "loving and forgiving god" is a kind of propoganda. After all, we are told that the Judeo-Christian God went out of his way to 1) murder innocent children of Egypt 2) destroy human civilization with a flood 3) turn an innocent woman into a pillar of salt 4) arrange the sacrificial death of his "only begotten son" ... and on and on and on with too many examples to name. Sounds like a tyrant to me.
Of course that's all phooey since the Judeo-Christian God is a mythological and literary figure and can only be fully understood as such. Any attempt to assign reason to religion and myth will be met with failure.
I'd be interested to read someone who holds that belief to answer your question however. I imagine it will involve the explanation of "freewill". Never is an explanation given for why an omnipotent being would take the time to create creatures of freewill in the first place.
Comments
The above text in red was a beautiful response. It was a very well thought out explanation of belief in a god.
However, the white text is where I cannot follow. It, as any other similar wordage, explains religion. There were many religions before the, for simplicity, Jewish religion. The Jewish religion, along with many others, borrowed text from other sources - Akhenaten for monotheistic beliefs, the Code of Hamurabi for the commandments and the Epic of Gilgamesh for the story of Noah, for example. The point of religion was to add a strict code of conduct which one must follow. IF one did not follow, then they would possibly lose both their mortal life and soul.
Satan was not viewed as "evil" in the Bible until the New Testament. The true meaning of Satan can be understood in the story of Job. Unfortunately the story presented in church and in Sunday school always portrays Satan as this evil entity wishing to inflict harm upon Job for the sake of being, well, evil. A brief history of what Satan actually means can be read here.
Finally, to add, there was never a heaven or hell defined in the Torah (the Old Testament). There was Sheol, where all spirits dwelt.
Now a quick question that I'm sure you've heard plenty of times: Why did God create those that he ultimately knows are going to burn in hell for not worshipping him? Seems selfish and egotistical to me.
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I once heard that the nature of God is a stand-up comic playing to a room that's too afraid to laugh.
The most important part of reading is reading between the lines.
God has always been and will always will be. And no you will never be able to understand that, we live in a world where everything has a beginning and an end that concept is foreign to our brains, it won't understand that, just like we can't understand infinity. We are finite beings with finite minds.
God doesn't inflict pain and suffering on us, What you need to do, is research and read your bible a little more and you'll understand. we're at war, Satan is the one inflicting pain i'll give you a scripture to prove it....
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ephesians 6:12
our pain and suffering is a result of the fall of adam, because of what he did in the garden sin entered mankind and death and all the terrible things we see now days. satan decieved adam into giving him all authority in Earth making satan the ruler of this world and because of that all those that are born are under his authority. all of what we experience is a result of sin. God sent his son to save us, satan had us in bondage and darkness. Jesus defeated satan and all those that accept jesus are free from satans grip and escape Gods judgment. its easy all you have to do is believe.
Healing is a fickle subject its very deep and there are many ways healing happens and doesn't happen, it is never guaranteed to be instantaneous, just because it doesn't happen right then doesn't mean it won't. i've seen people gradually get better over weeks/months/years i've also seen it instantaneously.
I"ll pose this question to you, if there is no God how do people get healed? If there is no God how come people throughout all time have stories of Angels/Demons stories of the afterlife, visions and sitings of Supernatural events. If there is no God how come we exist, the univers and creation is the biggest example of divine architecture. You don't look at a building and say wow it evolved from a rock, you say who was the architect and builder? There was an architect and builder of the Universe, that is just plain common sense, if you don't believe that then you are violating your conscience, for everyone is created knowing there is a creator and a God that is why religion will never be blotted out, there is always a divine influence. Fact is, there is a God he loves you and wants to know you. He has set you free all you have to do is believe in him and sincerely want to know him, he is offering you blessing and protection and rightstanding with the kingdom of God and forgiveness of all your tresspasses.
I've always found the story of Paradise Lost to be fascinating. The idea being that the Judeo-Christian God is actually a tyrant that created man soley to serve his own interests, with Satan as the tragic anti-hero who attempts to overthrow the tyrant king, and being unsuccesful at it is cast into Hell from where he plots the corruption of mankind as a way of getting back at the tyrant.
There are some who really do believe that if there is a god, then that god is actually malicious and manipulative. And if you think that, then the idea of a "loving and forgiving god" is a kind of propoganda. After all, we are told that the Judeo-Christian God went out of his way to 1) murder innocent children of Egypt 2) destroy human civilization with a flood 3) turn an innocent woman into a pillar of salt 4) arrange the sacrificial death of his "only begotten son" ... and on and on and on with too many examples to name. Sounds like a tyrant to me.
Of course that's all phooey since the Judeo-Christian God is a mythological and literary figure and can only be fully understood as such. Any attempt to assign reason to religion and myth will be met with failure.
I'd be interested to read someone who holds that belief to answer your question however. I imagine it will involve the explanation of "freewill". Never is an explanation given for why an omnipotent being would take the time to create creatures of freewill in the first place.
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