Did you expect that everyone involved with this project is people with 20+ years of gaming development experience? Nope, But I did expect at least one of them to have previous game development experience.
I will give you a lesson; People have to start somewhere, you can't expect them to have several years of experience if they say they wont. Thanks for that, condescending captain obvious, even though I’m not quite sure exactly what you were trying to say. Of course they have to start somewhere, but starting with an incredibly ambitious and complex MMO with the most amazing proposed feature and content list ever is probably not the best place to start in my opinion.
And nice diggin' Mr. Prosecutor 30 min’s on google, linkedin and web.archive.org ,but thanks anyway, and well worth it if I don’t say so my self.
Question: Where do programmers come from?
Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean?
In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space?
You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
Question: Where do programmers come from? Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean? In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space? You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
Question: Where do programmers come from? Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean? In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space? You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
I didn't say that at all. Working on games in a learning environment such as classes actually counts as experience, is what I'm trying to get across to you. no PREVIOUS GAME DEVELOPMENT EXPERIENCE is a dire understatement. Thats like saying a mock trial for a lawyer means he has no real experience in the field of law.
** perhaps you should change the wording of it to -- no previous experience putting out a game for mass production.
i think that vids going to show what there doing which is in a week or 2 Over 1 Tb of raw gameplay footage makes me wonder heh
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
i think that vids going to show what there doing which is in a week or 2 Over 1 Tb of raw gameplay footage makes me wonder heh
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
Polar, I can't breathe with all this sarcasm in the air.
i think that vids going to show what there doing which is in a week or 2 Over 1 Tb of raw gameplay footage makes me wonder heh
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
i'd definitely put more attention to your constructive posts if you wouldn't post anything like this. that's sound terrible, you're not even funny and you sound like vaportroll, full of groundless hate.
just wait for damn video, if it won't be good - well that will be another aventurine failure. if it will be good that will be your failure
i'd definitely put more attention to your constructive posts if you wouldn't post anything like this. that's sound terrible, you're not even funny and you sound like vaportroll, full of groundless hate. just wait for damn video, if it won't be good - well that will be another aventurine failure. if it will be good that will be your failure
I agree, and I am waiting for this video, and i still concede that it might prove me wrong, and I did let myself go a bit with that one.
But just think about it for a moment, over 1 terabyte of raw game play footage, that’s over 1000 gigabytes of footage, this is coming from a game thats probably had less then 5 minutes of video in total released after 8 years of development.
I find it practically inconceivable, for what possible purpose could you justify needing over 1 terabyte of raw gameplay footage for?, I know Darkfall has an extensive and elaborate feature and content list.
But surely it does not require over 1 terabytes of raw video footage as a bases to comprehensively demonstrate it, but of course if it does, then we are certainly in for a tremendous treat in a few weeks.
The closer to launch we are apparently getting, the more grandiose and outlandish the boasts and claims appear to be getting, which is all part of the fun i suppose.
it isnt impossible tasos did say They have ALOt of gameplay footage. of course there not going to give us all of the footage but it gives them alot to work with...
There probly goign to go throw and caught out most of it because i bet some of its running around doing nothing...
I didn't say that at all. Working on games in a learning environment such as classes actually counts as experience, is what I'm trying to get across to you. no PREVIOUS GAME DEVELOPMENT EXPERIENCE is a dire understatement. Thats like saying a mock trial for a lawyer means he has no real experience in the field of law. ** perhaps you should change the wording of it to -- no previous experience putting out a game for mass production.
And now your resorting to arguing semantics.
Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
But please do demonstrate that my statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry” is in fact a “dire understatement” for most or perhaps any of the founding or lead developers involved with this project.
By providing 3rd party verifiable evidence in contrary to the numerous examples I have already provided to support my statements.
That all or most of the lead/founding/creators/core developers/producers involved with this project appear to have no previous substantial or significant experience or credentials prior to their involvement with Darkfall and Razorwax/Aventurine in successful or even unsuccessful mainstream or even non mainstream MMO or even just game development/production.
Your failure to do so will again be another tacit admission that beyond reasonable doubt considering what I have presented they probably don’t, or at the very least you cant prove they do.
I didn't say that at all. Working on games in a learning environment such as classes actually counts as experience, is what I'm trying to get across to you. no PREVIOUS GAME DEVELOPMENT EXPERIENCE is a dire understatement. Thats like saying a mock trial for a lawyer means he has no real experience in the field of law. ** perhaps you should change the wording of it to -- no previous experience putting out a game for mass production.
And now your resorting to arguing semantics.
Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
But please do demonstrate that my statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry” is in fact a “dire understatement” for most or perhaps any of the founding or lead developers involved with this project.
By providing 3rd party verifiable evidence in contrary to the numerous examples I have already provided to support my statements.
That all or most of the lead/founding/creators/core developers/producers involved with this project appear to have no previous substantial or significant experience or credentials prior to their involvement with Darkfall and Razorwax/Aventurine in successful or even unsuccessful mainstream or even non mainstream MMO or even just game development/production.
Your failure to do so will again be another tacit admission that beyond reasonable doubt considering what I have presented they probably don’t, or at the very least you cant prove they do.
Well, we can play a game of roundabout all day if you'd like. Linkedin isn't exactly a resume, so no, you won't find work histories, job references, schools attended, and personal references if they don't choose to post them. You can check out my linkedin profile too, it has pretty much the same information, so as was said before, linkedin profiles used as "credentials" or a fact of complete work history is pretty sad. More importantly though, you can say the developers are amateurs if you want... but a good reference would be the videos and screenshots they've posted.
You can argue that those can be edited, or changed, or created with program X, but truthfully and especially in Bjorns "level design" department, if an amateur could pull the same level designs as are in the videos and screen shots then there are a lot of amateur MMO developers, because Darkfalls is pretty on par with the rest of the genre. Disagree with me? I thought you might, but its to be expected at this point.
Question: Where do programmers come from? Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean? In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space? You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
Your comprehension of what maskedweasel , stated in his last post is wrong the paragraph starting "But If" is what you are assuming not what was stated. The condescending nature of your posts is starting to grate and also the way you seem to put everyone down as irrelevant not nice.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Polarization needs a medal for creating a thread here with over 300 post and actually some intresting posting from several users.
The skill with which he types everyone into submission is scary.
While we are saying nice things, your sarcasm isnt too bad! However, you could kick it up a notch if you were more subtle.
Seriously though, over 10K views and 300+ posts (at present) isnt bad at all. And when it comes to hard info on the devs and their companies, this thread cant be beat. The interpretations of the data is just icing on the cake.
Polarization needs a medal for creating a thread here with over 300 post and actually some intresting posting from several users.
The skill with which he types everyone into submission is scary.
While we are saying nice things, your sarcasm isnt too bad! However, you could kick it up a notch if you were more subtle.
Seriously though, over 10K views and 300+ posts (at present) isnt bad at all. And when it comes to hard info on the devs and their companies, this thread cant be beat. The interpretations of the data is just icing on the cake.
Yeah, I can't believe this thread is still going...It took my largest thread to get 11k views in about 5 months, but this one just took off.
Congrats Polar!
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Question: Where do programmers come from? Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean? In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space? You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
The vast majority of your arguments are only backed up by logical fallacies, I called you on it on the thread where you say Polarization also decided to ignore you but you gleefully ignored my post so I just reckoned it wasn't worth it to bother any further, however this post shows a degree of ignorance that is both amusing and scary at the same time.
To put it bluntly, it leads me to believe you don't posses any kind of post-secondary education, and 0 or negative experience in programming (real, by the way, not HTML or CSS, or JS, or batch files etc.) or the video game industry. You're comparing time spent in a learning environment with time spent in a working environment for an industry markedly underrepresented in academia. Even in the more general IT business, tertiary education only prepares you for, at best, an entry level position in any serious/competent IT company. Where you go from there, if anywhere at all, is mostly dependent on work experience. This is even more conspicuous in the video game industry, where even fewer institutions have custom tailored programs for it, or better yet, majors in Revolutionary MMO Design and Development. That's not to say you can't get an entry level job for a Revolutionary MMO fresh out of school and be good at it, but the entire team, including some leads? No real surprise it's taking this long. It's not indy, it's amateur. I'd even say hobbyist seeing how at least one of their leads has to rely on 2nd(1st?) jobs to sustain himself, by his own admission.
The 20+ years experience guys started 20+ years ago, when only Nostradamus had heard of the term "MMO" and the most complex of games took at most 5 people and a few months to create and even then the more experienced programmers outranked them in the quality and scale of their work and were overall such a desirable commodity that some big (relatively, in the industry back then) companies didn't even credit them in fear of having them stolen by rival companies. They certainly didn't start in one of the most demanding market segments of the industry, both in overall experience and budget, to compete against and promise more than people who have orders of magnitude more of each. It was a lot easier to create what would be considered a AAA game back then, for example Will Wright single-handedly developed SimCity, but now, well, Wright's or Carmack's brilliant (downright scary) talent alone wouldn't suffice.
"So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience." If by "experience" here you mean "work or industry experience in relation to games development", then no, and I don't see why anyone would consider it so. If by "experience" you mean "part of the curriculum, and thus hardly adequate for a project of this scale to challenge the actual experts in this particular field" then I'd disagree with your statement, because I do consider it such. You need to add a qualifier to experience otherwise it's meaninglessly vague, considering everything that is perceived, understood and remembered is experience.
"Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing." And no one claimed he didn't, I assume we're not mind readers (speaking for myself here) to know what he knows but hasn't yet demonstrated, while he might be one who siphoned the knowledge off some expert. Just pointing an obvious red flag based on the empirical evidence that anyone who has met success in this specific market segment of the industry has had at least some of said experience (even CCP of EVE-O) and none of them were even trying something as huge in magnitude and scope as Aventurine is. Not evidence of impossibility, but implausibility, and if anyone considers that irrelevant or doesn't consider it at all then that person is extremely optimistic (and definitely not a "devil's advocate"), to the point of being unreasonable.
PS: Contrary what you may believe, (understandably, since you seem to know nothing about it) you don't have to go to school to be proficient in, or even a master (a title always coveted but seldomly achieved) of, programming or engineering, but that'd require that elusive work experience so oft mentioned and underrated (and apparently not possessed by the object of our discussion), as well as some natural talent. John Carmack stands out as a shining example of it, though there are countless others more...mundane. Hell, most related job requirements ask for work experience more than they do degrees, including ones at companies like Blizzard. Generally speaking a degree alone is only good for an entry level job.
You once asked me if I knew more about game development than you did. At the time I told you I couldn't answer because I didn't know what you knew. Since I can now infer from your comments your related knowledge, or lack thereof, I can safely say that I do, considerably.
Well, we can play a game of roundabout all day if you'd like. Linkedin isn't exactly a resume, so no, you won't find work histories, job references, schools attended, and personal references if they don't choose to post them. You can check out my linkedin profile too, it has pretty much the same information, so as was said before, linkedin profiles used as "credentials" or a fact of complete work history is pretty sad. More importantly though, you can say the developers are amateurs if you want... but a good reference would be the videos and screenshots they've posted. You can argue that those can be edited, or changed, or created with program X, but truthfully and especially in Bjorns "level design" department, if an amateur could pull the same level designs as are in the videos and screen shots then there are a lot of amateur MMO developers, because Darkfalls is pretty on par with the rest of the genre. Disagree with me? I thought you might, but its to be expected at this point.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
Well, we can play a game of roundabout all day if you'd like. Linkedin isn't exactly a resume, so no, you won't find work histories, job references, schools attended, and personal references if they don't choose to post them. You can check out my linkedin profile too, it has pretty much the same information, so as was said before, linkedin profiles used as "credentials" or a fact of complete work history is pretty sad. More importantly though, you can say the developers are amateurs if you want... but a good reference would be the videos and screenshots they've posted. You can argue that those can be edited, or changed, or created with program X, but truthfully and especially in Bjorns "level design" department, if an amateur could pull the same level designs as are in the videos and screen shots then there are a lot of amateur MMO developers, because Darkfalls is pretty on par with the rest of the genre. Disagree with me? I thought you might, but its to be expected at this point.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
lol the level design in Darkfall is mediocre junk plain and simple.
Any idiot with a level design tool can build levels like you see in any Darkfall screenshot.
Most are just flat with a few buildings laid around and few tree's dropped down.
Well, we can play a game of roundabout all day if you'd like. Linkedin isn't exactly a resume, so no, you won't find work histories, job references, schools attended, and personal references if they don't choose to post them. You can check out my linkedin profile too, it has pretty much the same information, so as was said before, linkedin profiles used as "credentials" or a fact of complete work history is pretty sad. More importantly though, you can say the developers are amateurs if you want... but a good reference would be the videos and screenshots they've posted. You can argue that those can be edited, or changed, or created with program X, but truthfully and especially in Bjorns "level design" department, if an amateur could pull the same level designs as are in the videos and screen shots then there are a lot of amateur MMO developers, because Darkfalls is pretty on par with the rest of the genre. Disagree with me? I thought you might, but its to be expected at this point.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
lol the level design in Darkfall is mediocre junk plain and simple.
Any idiot with a level design tool can build levels like you see in any Darkfall screenshot.
Most are just flat with a few buildings laid around and few tree's dropped down.
I will only believe what you say if Tasos says it first.
Silvarch thank you for so eloquently and exhaustively demonstrating exactly the context I was assuming (apparently incorrectly) all or atleast most people would be cognizant of when comprehending and/or responding to my statements like this.
“Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
A very brief mention of Razorwax’s move to Greece due to lack of investment used as an example in an article bemoaning the general state of MMO game investment in Norway.
From a Norwegian science and technology magazine from June 2005.
Comments
Question: Where do programmers come from?
Do they spring up out of the ground over night? Do they evolve naturally out of the ocean?
In most cases probably not. What about engineers? Do they fly in from space?
You have to go to school to be proficient in programming, engineering, and most technical jobs. So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience. Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. All the 20+ years experience guys had to start somewhere too believe it or not.
I’m sorry I don’t understand what you are saying or the point you are trying to make.
Or what the company Blizzard has to do with Razorwax/Aventurine, Darkfall or any of this information.
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
i think that vids going to show what there doing which is in a week or 2
Over 1 Tb of raw gameplay footage makes me wonder heh
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
I didn't say that at all. Working on games in a learning environment such as classes actually counts as experience, is what I'm trying to get across to you. no PREVIOUS GAME DEVELOPMENT EXPERIENCE is a dire understatement. Thats like saying a mock trial for a lawyer means he has no real experience in the field of law.
** perhaps you should change the wording of it to -- no previous experience putting out a game for mass production.
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
Polar, I can't breathe with all this sarcasm in the air.
And the fact that anyone would actually believe some anecdotal story about the developers having over 1 Terabyte of raw game play footage for this video makes me wonder.
Of course no one would be more pleased if the developers actually did release 1 terabyte of Darkfall game play footage, or at least the best bits from it, wow this video is going to be amazing, 1 terabyte, wow, I just cant get over that , 1 TERABYTE, that’s 1000 gigabytes!, damn say it with me, 1 TEERRRAAAA BYTE! this video is going to be AWESOME!, only a few more weeks, or soon, whichever comes first, before we see it!
DAAAAANG! over 1 terabyte, im sory i just cant get past that, absolutely incredible, that even beats over 25% of the official community thinking Darkfall will have over 750,000 subscribers.
I'm sure what ever happens (or does not) over the next 5 months it's going to be fantastic, and its only realy just starting to warm up.
i'd definitely put more attention to your constructive posts if you wouldn't post anything like this. that's sound terrible, you're not even funny and you sound like vaportroll, full of groundless hate.
just wait for damn video, if it won't be good - well that will be another aventurine failure. if it will be good that will be your failure
over 1 TB isnt hard to do fraps does 1 gig a min
i just talked to someone that had that on his own just recording pvp stuff
which is only 17 hours worth of footage.. they been working on this vid for 3 months its pretty easy to do.
in this amount of time
I agree, and I am waiting for this video, and i still concede that it might prove me wrong, and I did let myself go a bit with that one.
But just think about it for a moment, over 1 terabyte of raw game play footage, that’s over 1000 gigabytes of footage, this is coming from a game thats probably had less then 5 minutes of video in total released after 8 years of development.
I find it practically inconceivable, for what possible purpose could you justify needing over 1 terabyte of raw gameplay footage for?, I know Darkfall has an extensive and elaborate feature and content list.
But surely it does not require over 1 terabytes of raw video footage as a bases to comprehensively demonstrate it, but of course if it does, then we are certainly in for a tremendous treat in a few weeks.
The closer to launch we are apparently getting, the more grandiose and outlandish the boasts and claims appear to be getting, which is all part of the fun i suppose.
it isnt impossible tasos did say They have ALOt of gameplay footage. of course there not going to give us all of the footage but it gives them alot to work with...
There probly goign to go throw and caught out most of it because i bet some of its running around doing nothing...
we will probly get up to a 20 min vid
And now your resorting to arguing semantics.
Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
But please do demonstrate that my statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry” is in fact a “dire understatement” for most or perhaps any of the founding or lead developers involved with this project.
By providing 3rd party verifiable evidence in contrary to the numerous examples I have already provided to support my statements.
That all or most of the lead/founding/creators/core developers/producers involved with this project appear to have no previous substantial or significant experience or credentials prior to their involvement with Darkfall and Razorwax/Aventurine in successful or even unsuccessful mainstream or even non mainstream MMO or even just game development/production.
Your failure to do so will again be another tacit admission that beyond reasonable doubt considering what I have presented they probably don’t, or at the very least you cant prove they do.
And now your resorting to arguing semantics.
Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
But please do demonstrate that my statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry” is in fact a “dire understatement” for most or perhaps any of the founding or lead developers involved with this project.
By providing 3rd party verifiable evidence in contrary to the numerous examples I have already provided to support my statements.
That all or most of the lead/founding/creators/core developers/producers involved with this project appear to have no previous substantial or significant experience or credentials prior to their involvement with Darkfall and Razorwax/Aventurine in successful or even unsuccessful mainstream or even non mainstream MMO or even just game development/production.
Your failure to do so will again be another tacit admission that beyond reasonable doubt considering what I have presented they probably don’t, or at the very least you cant prove they do.
Well, we can play a game of roundabout all day if you'd like. Linkedin isn't exactly a resume, so no, you won't find work histories, job references, schools attended, and personal references if they don't choose to post them. You can check out my linkedin profile too, it has pretty much the same information, so as was said before, linkedin profiles used as "credentials" or a fact of complete work history is pretty sad. More importantly though, you can say the developers are amateurs if you want... but a good reference would be the videos and screenshots they've posted.
You can argue that those can be edited, or changed, or created with program X, but truthfully and especially in Bjorns "level design" department, if an amateur could pull the same level designs as are in the videos and screen shots then there are a lot of amateur MMO developers, because Darkfalls is pretty on par with the rest of the genre. Disagree with me? I thought you might, but its to be expected at this point.
Polarization needs a medal for creating a thread here with over 300 post and actually some intresting posting from several users.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Thankyou for continuing to demonstrate reading comprehension is obviously not one of your strengths, and that setting up straw man arguments seem to be the primary purpose and limit of your responses.
Not to mention the ever present condescending dismissive attitude.
I said PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
As I have demonstrated so far, all or nearly all of the lead and core/founding developers and producers of Darkfall appear to have no or little PREVIOUS game development experience or credentials.
But If you are saying that all or nearly all of the lead or founding developers and producers of Darkfall have acquired most or all of their actual game development experience whilst developing Darkfall, I would agree that certainly seems to be the case, of course whether or not that is a good thing is open to contention.
And whether or not any or all of the developers who are or have worked on this project “know what they are doing” will presumably be revealed in under 5 months, or not of course.
Your comprehension of what maskedweasel , stated in his last post is wrong the paragraph starting "But If" is what you are assuming not what was stated. The condescending nature of your posts is starting to grate and also the way you seem to put everyone down as irrelevant not nice.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The skill with which he types everyone into submission is scary.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The skill with which he types everyone into submission is scary.
While we are saying nice things, your sarcasm isnt too bad! However, you could kick it up a notch if you were more subtle.
Seriously though, over 10K views and 300+ posts (at present) isnt bad at all. And when it comes to hard info on the devs and their companies, this thread cant be beat. The interpretations of the data is just icing on the cake.
The skill with which he types everyone into submission is scary.
While we are saying nice things, your sarcasm isnt too bad! However, you could kick it up a notch if you were more subtle.
Seriously though, over 10K views and 300+ posts (at present) isnt bad at all. And when it comes to hard info on the devs and their companies, this thread cant be beat. The interpretations of the data is just icing on the cake.
Yeah, I can't believe this thread is still going...It took my largest thread to get 11k views in about 5 months, but this one just took off.
Congrats Polar!
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
The vast majority of your arguments are only backed up by logical fallacies, I called you on it on the thread where you say Polarization also decided to ignore you but you gleefully ignored my post so I just reckoned it wasn't worth it to bother any further, however this post shows a degree of ignorance that is both amusing and scary at the same time.
To put it bluntly, it leads me to believe you don't posses any kind of post-secondary education, and 0 or negative experience in programming (real, by the way, not HTML or CSS, or JS, or batch files etc.) or the video game industry. You're comparing time spent in a learning environment with time spent in a working environment for an industry markedly underrepresented in academia. Even in the more general IT business, tertiary education only prepares you for, at best, an entry level position in any serious/competent IT company. Where you go from there, if anywhere at all, is mostly dependent on work experience. This is even more conspicuous in the video game industry, where even fewer institutions have custom tailored programs for it, or better yet, majors in Revolutionary MMO Design and Development. That's not to say you can't get an entry level job for a Revolutionary MMO fresh out of school and be good at it, but the entire team, including some leads? No real surprise it's taking this long. It's not indy, it's amateur. I'd even say hobbyist seeing how at least one of their leads has to rely on 2nd(1st?) jobs to sustain himself, by his own admission.
The 20+ years experience guys started 20+ years ago, when only Nostradamus had heard of the term "MMO" and the most complex of games took at most 5 people and a few months to create and even then the more experienced programmers outranked them in the quality and scale of their work and were overall such a desirable commodity that some big (relatively, in the industry back then) companies didn't even credit them in fear of having them stolen by rival companies. They certainly didn't start in one of the most demanding market segments of the industry, both in overall experience and budget, to compete against and promise more than people who have orders of magnitude more of each. It was a lot easier to create what would be considered a AAA game back then, for example Will Wright single-handedly developed SimCity, but now, well, Wright's or Carmack's brilliant (downright scary) talent alone wouldn't suffice.
"So what you're saying is you probably don't consider programming done in a learning environment experience." If by "experience" here you mean "work or industry experience in relation to games development", then no, and I don't see why anyone would consider it so. If by "experience" you mean "part of the curriculum, and thus hardly adequate for a project of this scale to challenge the actual experts in this particular field" then I'd disagree with your statement, because I do consider it such. You need to add a qualifier to experience otherwise it's meaninglessly vague, considering everything that is perceived, understood and remembered is experience.
"Just because and/or even if Bjorn didn't have any prior experience on any game in production, its not to say that he doesn't know what he's doing." And no one claimed he didn't, I assume we're not mind readers (speaking for myself here) to know what he knows but hasn't yet demonstrated, while he might be one who siphoned the knowledge off some expert. Just pointing an obvious red flag based on the empirical evidence that anyone who has met success in this specific market segment of the industry has had at least some of said experience (even CCP of EVE-O) and none of them were even trying something as huge in magnitude and scope as Aventurine is. Not evidence of impossibility, but implausibility, and if anyone considers that irrelevant or doesn't consider it at all then that person is extremely optimistic (and definitely not a "devil's advocate"), to the point of being unreasonable.
PS: Contrary what you may believe, (understandably, since you seem to know nothing about it) you don't have to go to school to be proficient in, or even a master (a title always coveted but seldomly achieved) of, programming or engineering, but that'd require that elusive work experience so oft mentioned and underrated (and apparently not possessed by the object of our discussion), as well as some natural talent. John Carmack stands out as a shining example of it, though there are countless others more...mundane. Hell, most related job requirements ask for work experience more than they do degrees, including ones at companies like Blizzard. Generally speaking a degree alone is only good for an entry level job.
You once asked me if I knew more about game development than you did. At the time I told you I couldn't answer because I didn't know what you knew. Since I can now infer from your comments your related knowledge, or lack thereof, I can safely say that I do, considerably.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
lol the level design in Darkfall is mediocre junk plain and simple.
Any idiot with a level design tool can build levels like you see in any Darkfall screenshot.
Most are just flat with a few buildings laid around and few tree's dropped down.
Perceived quality is subjective, but the videos and pictures of DF are not really showcasing level design, they're showcasing art assets and scenes. Level design is a lot more than that.
lol the level design in Darkfall is mediocre junk plain and simple.
Any idiot with a level design tool can build levels like you see in any Darkfall screenshot.
Most are just flat with a few buildings laid around and few tree's dropped down.
I will only believe what you say if Tasos says it first.
Silvarch thank you for so eloquently and exhaustively demonstrating exactly the context I was assuming (apparently incorrectly) all or atleast most people would be cognizant of when comprehending and/or responding to my statements like this.
“Anyone who’s not being willfully obtuse or disingenuous can appreciate the obvious context of statements like “no previous game development experience or credentials in the industry”
Some interesting comments by Ricki Sickenger “lead programmer” and "tools/logic programmer" for Darkfall from 2001.
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/advanced-java/2001-June/036636.html
"Our company is developing a game which is using Java for game logic and
scripting language, coupled with DirectX through JNI."
- Ricki
JNI= Java Native Interface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Native_Interface
A very brief mention of Razorwax’s move to Greece due to lack of investment used as an example in an article bemoaning the general state of MMO game investment in Norway.
From a Norwegian science and technology magazine from June 2005.
http://www.tu.no/a/00023/Teknisk_Ukeblad_1605_23505a.pdf
"The company Razorwax came capital from Norway to Greece."