Just to get it off me, Jatar, your post was pretty sad as a dev, informative, but sad in that you fail to act like a dev and address any problems in the post, rather than go out of your way to toss in some personal insults. =/ Moving on, my concern is that the game seems like its being made by an extremely small team it sounds like. If thats the case how much content are they going to be able to come up with beyond the usual questing/xp grind?
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
My point is there is not exp/quest grind in CoS.
I dont understand your point about maturity, I don't see why a developer should have to act any more mature then a player. They are both people and people will act anyway they want.
Ah right, so they say and want, but theirs nothing on the site showing what kind of content is going to be in the game.
Alot off mmo's start off saying how their game is going to be "completely different." From what ive seen and read, they're just talking. Ill wait for them to show off some gameplay to decide on that though.
If he's a dev, he should be treating potential customers with respect, I know if I went off trying to represent who I work for saying stuff like that, id be in a mess. You certainly don't even see the mod's here acting like that.
Originally posted by mike470 Secondly, Friction comes in and makes false claims about their game and their offices. I reported what I found. I did not come here to "make false claims" He comes in bashing the game and saying the devs have little experience. I did not bash the game. I said that they did not seem to be experienced because looking at the screenshots that was my impression. Saying that they HAVE to do this and that. I was just offering advice/my opinion. Showing where his friend lived. That's a business address. It's a business park. His WHOLE post was full of false assumptions. My post was filled with what I discovered. Jez! Why are you people so touchy and hostile?
Grrrrr
I'm not coming back here again. That's for sure.
Sorry if we are being Hostile, dont mean to be. Just dont want to see false information passed around as truth. I am not attacking you.... I was attacking (wrong word to use) the information in your post.
I know you from the Darkfall boards, the other game I am waiting on. I just want this game to go though what Darkfall is going though.
Originally posted by mike470 Secondly, Friction comes in and makes false claims about their game and their offices. I reported what I found. I did not come here to "make false claims" He comes in bashing the game and saying the devs have little experience. I did not bash the game. I said that they did not seem to be experienced because looking at the screenshots that was my impression. Saying that they HAVE to do this and that. I was just offering advice/my opinion. Showing where his friend lived. That's a business address. It's a business park. His WHOLE post was full of false assumptions. My post was filled with what I discovered. Jez! Why are you people so touchy and hostile?
Grrrrr
I'm not coming back here again. That's for sure.
Sorry if we are being Hostile, dont mean to be. Just dont want to see false information passed around as truth. I am not attacking you.... I was attacking (wrong word to use) the information in your post.
I know you from the Darkfall boards, the other game I am waiting on. I just want this game to go though what Darkfall is going though.
Aye, we are coming off a little hostile.
I guess these things can happen when things get a little intense around here.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Just to get it off me, Jatar, your post was pretty sad as a dev, informative, but sad in that you fail to act like a dev and address any problems in the post, rather than go out of your way to toss in some personal insults. =/ Moving on, my concern is that the game seems like its being made by an extremely small team it sounds like. If thats the case how much content are they going to be able to come up with beyond the usual questing/xp grind?
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Wolfenpride If he's a dev, he should be treating potential customers with respect, I know if I went off trying to represent who I work for saying stuff like that, id be in a mess. You certainly don't even see the mod's here acting like that.
I've seen it happen before with devs and site moderators (not here).
The fact is Friction has made countless false assumptions and made personal attacs against the developers in his original post. He showed a living home of his friend/buisness partner..
How would YOU feel if you were a developer of a game Friction said "Your games looks like crap, you clearly have no experience" nd then he showed a picture of your friends' house..I'm betting you would be pretty pissed, especially considering that most the false assumptions Friction made can be found on the main site.
Those aren't Fricion's exact words, but that is what he was saying,.
He made no personal attack against anyone that I can see, he was going off what he found on google to try and find out who these guys and are and what kind of expirence they've had.
The screenshot was just humor
I wouldn't care if someone was dissing my game, because all games go through it, and the dev's shouldn't even care what one person has to say on these boards. If anything take it as criticism and get ideas as to how you can improve the game.
Honestly I thought this post was to be humorous, but geesh..
Just to get it off me, Jatar, your post was pretty sad as a dev, informative, but sad in that you fail to act like a dev and address any problems in the post, rather than go out of your way to toss in some personal insults. =/ Moving on, my concern is that the game seems like its being made by an extremely small team it sounds like. If thats the case how much content are they going to be able to come up with beyond the usual questing/xp grind?
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
My point is there is not exp/quest grind in CoS.
I dont understand your point about maturity, I don't see why a developer should have to act any more mature then a player. They are both people and people will act anyway they want.
Ah right, so they say and want, but theirs nothing on the site showing what kind of content is going to be in the game.
Alot off mmo's start off saying how their game is going to be "completely different." From what ive seen and read, they're just talking. Ill wait for them to show off some gameplay to decide on that though.
If he's a dev, he should be treating potential customers with respect, I know if I went off trying to represent who I work for saying stuff like that, id be in a mess. You certainly don't even see the mod's here acting like that.
But you would have read that if you read the web site -
Yes I went over those and like I said, so far they're just talking, they haven't actually shown us anything yet.
Well the game is still in early development. When they are ready to show us more, they will show us more. I trust CoS and the development team because Jatar will answer any question that comes to him with the information he is allowed to share. I have not seen that much out of the bigger game companies.
Just to get it off me, Jatar, your post was pretty sad as a dev, informative, but sad in that you fail to act like a dev and address any problems in the post, rather than go out of your way to toss in some personal insults. =/ Moving on, my concern is that the game seems like its being made by an extremely small team it sounds like. If thats the case how much content are they going to be able to come up with beyond the usual questing/xp grind?
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Just to get it off me, Jatar, your post was pretty sad as a dev, informative, but sad in that you fail to act like a dev and address any problems in the post, rather than go out of your way to toss in some personal insults. =/ Moving on, my concern is that the game seems like its being made by an extremely small team it sounds like. If thats the case how much content are they going to be able to come up with beyond the usual questing/xp grind?
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
QFT. The hostility from the dev and supporters of this game towards this one, simple poster, is a big turnoff for me as well. If you can't answer a critique without getting angry, how do you expect to manage a top-notch mmo...which do little more than generate critics?
I was already on the fence about this game.....this thread may have just pushed me over.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company. Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company. Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
Hello to all those who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery. I would like to address some of the points that were made by friction2u so as to set the record straight and to put aside any fears or concerns of our fanbase.
We've made no real secrets of much of our development as we believe a certain level of transparency is important in establishing a relationship with future players.
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
MMO Magic, Inc., is a small team of game industry professionals. This can be found in numerous places and is available to the public.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
As for Friction2U's conern about the location being possibly dubious, this is a P.O. Box we use to receive communication from fans while we work on Citadel of Sorcery. The P.O. Box is located near Mr. DeRuyter's house so that it is easy for him to check the box regularly.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We choose NOT to seek a publisher at this point in development so that the game could be made to our original design. As previously publicly stated, we will seek a publisher when we feel the game is far enough along to prove the game design by allowing a publisher to experience the game, not read about the design. We are far along toward this goal, but not there yet. Art is only being taken so far, we only need it good enough to prove game play.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Thank you all for your continuing interest in Citadel of Sorcery and we look forward to providing you all with more information in the future. We enjoy the enthusiasm of our continually expanding fanbase and feel that it points to an interested, engaged and passionate community for our game.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
The whole point of Friction2u's post was to show that CoS was a fake project that was nothing more then a scam. There is not other way to look at his first post. Friction2u knew from the minute he posted this thread it was going to turn into a fight, just like he does on the Darkfall forums.
So the fact that Jatar even responsed to this post is amazing at all and should show that the developers of of CoS are willing to take time out to talk to the community even if it was to prove a poster wrong.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer. How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect. I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer. How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect. I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
How can you even sit there and say his post was an attempt at humor. He was trying to state that the company behind CoS was a screensaver company... go read his first post again. It clear states that in the post.
Developer did not incite this thread, friction2u post about the company behind CoS was nothing more then a screensaver company trying to develop a MMO. Which was proven wrong, clearly.
I think personally it makes the Developer look better by not pussy footing his answer, I respect people that speak their mind and not try to keep everyone happy. I rather have a developer rip the shit out of some random guy trying to spread lies about his company then a developer that acts all nice and buddy like to the same guy.
Maybe its just me but I am so sick of this political correctness shit that it is refreshing to see someone not hold back anything and try to please the world.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer. How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect. I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
How can you even sit there and say his post was an attempt at humor. He was trying to state that the company behind CoS was a screensaver company... go read his first post again. It clear states that in the post.
Developer did not incite this thread, friction2u post about the company behind CoS was nothing more then a screensaver company trying to develop a MMO. Which was proven wrong, clearly.
I think personally it makes the Developer look better by not pussy footing his answer, I respect people that speak their mind and not try to keep everyone happy. I rather have a developer rip the shit out of some random guy trying to spread lies about his company then a developer that acts all nice and buddy like to the same guy.
Maybe its just me but I am so sick of this political correctness shit that it is refreshing to see someone not hold back anything and try to please the world.
Because he posted a screenshot of some tiny lil no where offices, I thought it was pretty funny
And they did in fact make screensavers prior to starting on CoS, so in a way what he said was true! I tried to google mmo magic to see how much expirence these guy's have had and so far all we know is some of them have done screensavers. Nothing was proven false about that, it was added on that they are working toghether with mmo magic or w/e.
Im sorry, but that post just made him look like a 10 year old, adults, don't act like that my friend, especially not when your representing alot of other people. He doesnt have to be nice about it, heck he doesn't have to respond at all, could've brushed the whole thing off and no one would mind.
Sorry but thats how it works, this game isn't going to sale if the dev's are gonna act like that, it just pushes customers away.
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion.
None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens.
Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post.
"So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling."
"The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots."
"What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success.
Seriously."
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion. None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens. Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post. "So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling." "The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots." "What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success. Seriously."
You seem rather stubborn about yours as well my friend
The dev has no reason to take offense, the OP was not directed at him, it never even called him out. Have you read some of the threads in other games people make? This is absolutely nothing compared to what AoC has been getting, and the following responses were over reacted.
I can recall one dev/mod who went over the line, i believe during when I played RYL2, needless to say his post was locked and deleted, and a week or so later he was fired I believe.
Beyond that, no I can say for myself I have not seen a dev flip out for any reason. =/
Yes shots were made at the game not the dev's, other than his suggestion that they need to step it up. Its called criticism I believe.
The game is still in early development, we don't know much about it, what I gather from the OP is he is not impressed with the few screenshots they've release with all this big talk, which is understandable and I agree on that.
If jater wants to be rude, i cant stop him, but it doesnt look good at all, and we're trying to tell you that if you want this game to look good you cant have dev's flippin out like that. It was uncalled for, he needs to practice some tolerance and restraint or somthing.
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion. None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens. Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post. "So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling." "The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots." "What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success. Seriously."
You seem rather stubborn about yours as well my friend
The dev has no reason to take offense, the OP was not directed at him, it never even called him out. Have you read some of the threads in other games people make? This is absolutely nothing compared to what AoC has been getting, and the following responses were over reacted.
I can recall one dev/mod who went over the line, i believe during when I played RYL2, needless to say his post was locked and deleted, and a week or so later he was fired I believe.
Beyond that, no I can say for myself I have not seen a dev flip out for any reason. =/
Yes shots were made at the game not the dev's, other than his suggestion that they need to step it up. Its called criticism I believe.
The game is still in early development, we don't know much about it, what I gather from the OP is he is not impressed with the few screenshots they've release with all this big talk, which is understandable and I agree on that.
If jater wants to be rude, i cant stop him, but it doesnt look good at all, and we're trying to tell you that if you want this game to look good you cant have dev's flippin out like that. It was uncalled for, he needs to practice some tolerance and restraint or somthing.
Yes Friction did take shots at the game, but if he's taking shots at the game he's taking shots at the people who make the game too.
While i agree that it was unneccesary the way Jatar responded it's nothing to overreact to. Just for a second put yourself in the shoes of a developer. You're working endless hours day & night to get the game you want it to be and then to come here to read Friction's post that just blatantly insulted a product that he/she has spent all their time & effort creating. It's just natural to feel pissed off. While this could've been avoided, it's nothing inhuman to see people express there anger.
All I have to say about this is for the critics to get over it & understand it from another prespective. You would all be liars if you said you didn't act in a way you didn't want to when something happened to you.
So lets just put this behind us and just keep on waiting for more info to come out on CoS. Keep up the good work MMO Magic!
Personally I saw Friction2u's post as an attack on CoS. Anyone who takes the time to Google Map a picture of a physical location isn't doing it for a laugh. I re-read the post now and I still can't take his post in any other way but as an insult.
If he had concerns he could have easily posted a new thread and asked Jatar. Jatar has been forthcoming with any information that he's been asked.
Instead, he appears to lead some crusade against CoS and how the company is just a "screensaver company." It's a crusade post.. a post designed to inflame responses from other.
I got a good laugh out of Jatar's response (which has now been edited by a forum mod). I agreed with his assessment and the relation to the poster and those shown on Jay Walking (where people are asked questions and make up crazy answers).
A lot of information about the game concept, design and status are available on their website. Other information can be found in Jatar's posts or simply asking him.
Instead, the thread tried to turn a small piece of information into some sort of conspiracy. A guy who works for MMO Magic made some money selling screensavers..... and?
I would be willing to bet anyone working on any other game has side projects either in the same industry or not related to it. It's no big deal, I don't see how this was some "revalation" that somehow someone from MMO Magic has a side job.
I'd also be pretty upset if some random person from the internet is now using satellite Google photos to track down where my employees live and post that information on public forums.
As for the screenshots... Jatar has posted multiple times that these are not the final screens. They are prototypes and placeholders. You can't have a world with nothing in it to work with, otherwise you have nothing.
Graphics mean nothing, anyway. EQ2 had awesome graphics and screenshots before release and was a failure of a game. Performance was horrid and the game looked nothing like it.
People complained that WoW looked like crap, but it's the biggest MMO in history.
Jatar has made no secret that gameplay and design comes first and Art will be done at the end. What's the point of spending money, time and resources developing art for an engine that isn't finished? Why would you devote so much time and energy without a game to put them in?
The answer is that a lot of MMO companies start with pretty graphics to wow publishers into giving them money. Core gameplay and design take a back seat to pretty graphics and effects.
MMO Magic is doing something different: they're focusing on the actual gameplay, design and technical details before pretty graphics. They want to do the game their way and make a working prototype before they go to a publisher. If all you have are pretty graphics, all you end up with is a pretty failure.
The posted screenshots are not here to wow you into playing... they're posted because if they DIDN'T show any screenshots, there would be other threads over and over again that the game doesn't exist because there aren't any screenshots!
Darkfall has had screenshots for YEARS and it's gone nowhere so far. What good are screenshots if the game doesn't even work?
Up until now, this forum has had a generally nice feel to it, and I have lurked my way through. Many questions have been answered by the dev, and he has revealed as much as he feels he is able from the sounds of it.
I think this thread was started to create conflict.
Perhaps the dev was exhausted from working when he replied. He generally seems extremely helpful and reacts kindly to most nastiness. The best thing that can be done would be to quit posting on this thread and let it die. Let's not become like some of the other forums.
I want to play this game, so I am looking for positive things to do. There is an interesting thread about abilities started today. I am going to start trying to think of ability ideas to add to that thread.
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion. None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens. Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post. "So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling." "The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots." "What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success. Seriously."
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion. None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens. Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post. "So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling." "The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots." "What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success. Seriously."
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
You hold your opinion and I hold mine.
My view: Developers are people too. I see no problem with Jatar not showing respect to Friction, as Friction clearly showed rudeness towards the whole team. Saying that the team "needs to hire talented people" and calling them a "screensaver company" is clearly a painful shot. If I was on the internet, said you needed to hire more people and call you an untalented company/manager with no experience you wouldn't take offence to that?
After starting up a company, using some of their own money, taking three years to work your ass off for an MMO, and then to hear someone make foolish statements (which are actually covered in the FAQ if anyone bothers to read) just to start an arguement.....you're telling me that wouldn't piss you off? THAT is bulshit, wether you admit it or not.
You didn't start this billion dollar company. You're not a smaller company who used some of their own funds to get started, you're just working for the company. I'm not saying you don't work hard, but I am saying you cannot relate. Don't get me wrong, neither can I, but I am trying to see it from Jatar and the teams' view, instead of my own.
Listen, Jatar doesn't even have to post here. He comes here on his own time to help everyone who is interested in the game out, and I respect that. I would not be surprised if the whole team would be pissed by this post; as it really did tae some shots. Your first post maes no sense, being respectful or not, because no one thanks someone who takes shots at everything they worked for.
Once again, this is just my opinion. I don't believe Jatar should show respect for people who act like Friction did in this post; although it is clear you think otherwise.
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
You hold your opinion and I hold mine. My view: Developers are people too. I see no problem with Jatar not showing respect to Friction, as Friction clearly showed rudeness towards the whole team. Saying that the team "needs to hire talented people" and calling them a "screensaver company" is clearly a painful shot. If I was on the internet, said you needed to hire more people and call you an untalented company/manager with no experience you wouldn't take offence to that? After starting up a company, using some of their own money, taking three years to work your ass off for an MMO, and then to hear someone make foolish statements (which are actually covered in the FAQ if anyone bothers to read) just to start an arguement.....you're telling me that wouldn't piss you off? THAT is bulshit, wether you admit it or not. You didn't start this billion dollar company. You're not a smaller company who used some of their own funds to get started, you're just working for the company. I'm not saying you don't work hard, but I am saying you cannot relate. Don't get me wrong, neither can I, but I am trying to see it from Jatar and the teams' view, instead of my own. Listen, Jatar doesn't even have to post here. He comes here on his own time to help everyone who is interested in the game out, and I respect that. I would not be surprised if the whole team would be pissed by this post; as it really did tae some shots. Your first post maes no sense, being respectful or not, because no one thanks someone who takes shots at everything they worked for. Once again, this is just my opinion. I don't believe Jatar should show respect for people who act like Friction did in this post; although it is clear you think otherwise.
It has nothing to do with opinion and everything to do with being professional.
If you want to be respected in this world you have to show that you are strong and professional. This doesn't mean that one can't present their point of view but if you are a dev or an employee or the CEO you represent the company. You just do.
I have yet to see a gm, dev or anyone in a game company that was larger and more established behave this way. I can't say that it's never happened but I've never seen it. I've always seen cool professional if not sometimes aloof responses.
I am not saying that he shouldn't be pissed or angry or "whatever". I am saying that being professional is more than something that you just say.
Perhaps in a small startup it's not an issue but once you start getting established it is. And I assure you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that once a company goes public, if someone were to use that attitude in a public forum and were not dealth with and it started affecting business and stocks, the company would get sued.
You can have yoru opinion that he should be justified to feel that way but professional companies won't stand for this. Even if they want to. They might do other things such as call in the lawyers for slander or some such thing but it will be done in a way that saves the company face if they can do it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by mike470 You hold your opinion and I hold mine. My view: Developers are people too. I see no problem with Jatar not showing respect to Friction, as Friction clearly showed rudeness towards the whole team. Saying that the team "needs to hire talented people" and calling them a "screensaver company" is clearly a painful shot. If I was on the internet, said you needed to hire more people and call you an untalented company/manager with no experience you wouldn't take offence to that? After starting up a company, using some of their own money, taking three years to work your ass off for an MMO, and then to hear someone make foolish statements (which are actually covered in the FAQ if anyone bothers to read) just to start an arguement.....you're telling me that wouldn't piss you off? THAT is bulshit, wether you admit it or not. You didn't start this billion dollar company. You're not a smaller company who used some of their own funds to get started, you're just working for the company. I'm not saying you don't work hard, but I am saying you cannot relate. Don't get me wrong, neither can I, but I am trying to see it from Jatar and the teams' view, instead of my own. Listen, Jatar doesn't even have to post here. He comes here on his own time to help everyone who is interested in the game out, and I respect that. I would not be surprised if the whole team would be pissed by this post; as it really did tae some shots. Your first post maes no sense, being respectful or not, because no one thanks someone who takes shots at everything they worked for. Once again, this is just my opinion. I don't believe Jatar should show respect for people who act like Friction did in this post; although it is clear you think otherwise.
Like it or not, he's the face of the company here. They're trying to promote a product that they want people to eventually buy. Personally insulting individuals, as the "face of the company" is NOT how you gain customers. People don't like that. If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, and he proceeded to personally insult you and your passengers for much of the traffic stop, would you go home and say "Well, I deserved it. I was going 10 mph too fast." Maybe...but I know I wouldn't be too happy.
And, as I said before, the product we're talking about is an MMO. When/if it launches, there are going to be hundreds/thousands of negative posts about the game, its system, and its designers, every day. We alll know that. All the while the devs are STILL going to be working long hours on a very personal product. So, is this how they're going to act on the official forums?
If so, then no thanks. He would have been better off ignoring the "insulting" post, and let the well informed among you correct the mistakes.
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion. None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens. Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post. "So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling." "The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots." "What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success. Seriously."
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
Well you are correct with your post but you are not comparing the same type of Situation. You are viewing the situation from the wrong point of view. You are looking at it from a employee addressing another employee or a client or potiental client. Friction2u is none of these. This situation is basicly this.
You are on a company business trip, your sitting in the hotel lobby eatting breakfast. Some guy is talking to his friend and is just bashing your company. He is telling his friend that your company is a bunch of untalented hacks that cannot do anything and that you company sells drugs to little children. He then goes on to say that everyone that works for that company is dumber then a rock and they all are about as useful as ice in greenland.
Your telling me you would not give that guy a piece of your mind? Honestly? You are a better person then I my friend, because I would destroy that mans will to live.
Comments
Before posting about the game design and team, please read http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
My point is there is not exp/quest grind in CoS.
I dont understand your point about maturity, I don't see why a developer should have to act any more mature then a player. They are both people and people will act anyway they want.
Ah right, so they say and want, but theirs nothing on the site showing what kind of content is going to be in the game.
Alot off mmo's start off saying how their game is going to be "completely different." From what ive seen and read, they're just talking. Ill wait for them to show off some gameplay to decide on that though.
If he's a dev, he should be treating potential customers with respect, I know if I went off trying to represent who I work for saying stuff like that, id be in a mess. You certainly don't even see the mod's here acting like that.
http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/questions/questlist.php?Q=1 - This shows what content is going to be in the game.
Quest information is here - http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/questions/questlist.php?Q=3
But you would have read that if you read the web site -
Yes I went over those and like I said, so far they're just talking, they haven't actually shown us anything yet.
Sorry if we are being Hostile, dont mean to be. Just dont want to see false information passed around as truth. I am not attacking you.... I was attacking (wrong word to use) the information in your post.
I know you from the Darkfall boards, the other game I am waiting on. I just want this game to go though what Darkfall is going though.
Sooner or Later
Sorry if we are being Hostile, dont mean to be. Just dont want to see false information passed around as truth. I am not attacking you.... I was attacking (wrong word to use) the information in your post.
I know you from the Darkfall boards, the other game I am waiting on. I just want this game to go though what Darkfall is going though.
Aye, we are coming off a little hostile.
I guess these things can happen when things get a little intense around here.
__________________________________________________
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Before posting about the game design and team, please read http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I've seen it happen before with devs and site moderators (not here).
The fact is Friction has made countless false assumptions and made personal attacs against the developers in his original post. He showed a living home of his friend/buisness partner..
How would YOU feel if you were a developer of a game Friction said "Your games looks like crap, you clearly have no experience" nd then he showed a picture of your friends' house..I'm betting you would be pretty pissed, especially considering that most the false assumptions Friction made can be found on the main site.
Those aren't Fricion's exact words, but that is what he was saying,.
He made no personal attack against anyone that I can see, he was going off what he found on google to try and find out who these guys and are and what kind of expirence they've had.
The screenshot was just humor
I wouldn't care if someone was dissing my game, because all games go through it, and the dev's shouldn't even care what one person has to say on these boards. If anything take it as criticism and get ideas as to how you can improve the game.
Honestly I thought this post was to be humorous, but geesh..
Before posting about the game design and team, please read http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
My point is there is not exp/quest grind in CoS.
I dont understand your point about maturity, I don't see why a developer should have to act any more mature then a player. They are both people and people will act anyway they want.
Ah right, so they say and want, but theirs nothing on the site showing what kind of content is going to be in the game.
Alot off mmo's start off saying how their game is going to be "completely different." From what ive seen and read, they're just talking. Ill wait for them to show off some gameplay to decide on that though.
If he's a dev, he should be treating potential customers with respect, I know if I went off trying to represent who I work for saying stuff like that, id be in a mess. You certainly don't even see the mod's here acting like that.
http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/questions/questlist.php?Q=1 - This shows what content is going to be in the game.
Quest information is here - http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/questions/questlist.php?Q=3
But you would have read that if you read the web site -
Yes I went over those and like I said, so far they're just talking, they haven't actually shown us anything yet.
Well the game is still in early development. When they are ready to show us more, they will show us more. I trust CoS and the development team because Jatar will answer any question that comes to him with the information he is allowed to share. I have not seen that much out of the bigger game companies.
Sooner or Later
Before posting about the game design and team, please read http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Alot better
Before posting about the game design and team, please read http://www.citadelofsorcery.com/
FYI, Jatar did address all of Friction2u's issues he rasied.
Ive been to the site, and your point?
And yes he sure did, with far less maturity than expected from a dev.
Agreed. Jatar's post was appalling at best. Completely unprofessional and does nothign to inspire confidence in a supposedly professional company.
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
Sooner or Later
Jatar, this is the post you should have made:
However, I would be more than happy to revisit this. Let's start with Atlantis3D, Inc. This is a small technology development company. They began making a new 3D engine quite a few years ago. During that process they turned out some nice screensavers as tests of the early engine. A long time has past since then and now they have licensed their improved engine to several industries, including the game industry.
As for the connection between A3D and MMO Magic, Inc., two employees of A3D were involved in the team that started MMO Magic, Inc. They brokered the deal for the engine and then moved over to MMO Magic, Inc. since they were really from the game industry originally. For the past 2 plus years the engine has been further developed and improved by MMO Magic’s programmers for use in Citadel of Sorcery, which has specific needs in an engine not included in the basic package created by A3D.
It is true that , Mr. DeRuyter has some personal family web sites, but in no way does this have anything to do with the game or its dev team.
Also, if people are interested they might find through their research that Mr. DeRuyter has worked at other game companies, in various positions, including Producer on a shipped title. Most of the people involved in the MMO Magic team have credits on many shipped games in the industry and we feel very lucky to have them.
We have also been very open regarding the size of our team and what we are doing. We have stated that the game is far in technology and design, but barely started in art. There are very real reasons for this and when the time comes we will release screen shots that are more worthy of the game we are creating.
I hope this clears up any questions. Though I will not be discussing this topic again I would like our fanbase to know that we will be glad to answer anyone else’s questions about the project on any area in which we are allowed to give out information. Some information about the game is of course, kept secret, and some information about who is working on the game is also kept secret.
Seriously, you guys need to get a P.R. person or decide on a specific course when speakign with the public. If I was the head designer or head of the company I would be livid with your post as it undermines so much.
QFT. The hostility from the dev and supporters of this game towards this one, simple poster, is a big turnoff for me as well. If you can't answer a critique without getting angry, how do you expect to manage a top-notch mmo...which do little more than generate critics?
I was already on the fence about this game.....this thread may have just pushed me over.
Poor form gentlemen.
How was his post unprofessional?
Jatar just called out a poster that was posting information that was not correct and corrected the information.
Sooner or Later
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will state that a developer does not have to show respect to someone that is not showing them respect, just because they are a developer.
How does that work, if they were both just players would you guys be so up in arms about his response? I dont think so... Why do you hold the Developers to a higher standard then the players? Why should the players be held to a lesser standard? If a player or players dont show respect then I dont expect the developer to show any respect.
I dont think Jatar's post came off as unprofessional, I think he post showed alot of emotion which is great coming from a Developer.
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
The whole point of Friction2u's post was to show that CoS was a fake project that was nothing more then a scam. There is not other way to look at his first post. Friction2u knew from the minute he posted this thread it was going to turn into a fight, just like he does on the Darkfall forums.
So the fact that Jatar even responsed to this post is amazing at all and should show that the developers of of CoS are willing to take time out to talk to the community even if it was to prove a poster wrong.
Sooner or Later
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
How can you even sit there and say his post was an attempt at humor. He was trying to state that the company behind CoS was a screensaver company... go read his first post again. It clear states that in the post.
Developer did not incite this thread, friction2u post about the company behind CoS was nothing more then a screensaver company trying to develop a MMO. Which was proven wrong, clearly.
I think personally it makes the Developer look better by not pussy footing his answer, I respect people that speak their mind and not try to keep everyone happy. I rather have a developer rip the shit out of some random guy trying to spread lies about his company then a developer that acts all nice and buddy like to the same guy.
Maybe its just me but I am so sick of this political correctness shit that it is refreshing to see someone not hold back anything and try to please the world.
Sooner or Later
I have almost never seen a dev respond like that, their suppose to be representing their company/game, and nasty responses do not appeal to most crowds, nor does it make them look good.
And your right, if he was just some player/poster I wouldn't be so alarmed about it, id be more intrested in where he got his info actually ;p
When your on the job, or doing anything buisness related, you just don't act like that, it would get you fired usually. He could've easily said what he had to say in a much better way
Edit: Alot of things in this thread could've been said in a better way actually
Again I will ask, why do you expect a developer to be any different then a player? Why are you holding him to a higher standard then Friction2u? because he is a developer? It doesnt matter what title or position he has, he is still a person, just like you and me and guess what we are all emotional and tend to post emotional responses to lies and false information.
It like saying you would write a very nice and professional letter to someone that wrote a completely false letter to your boss explaining how you did your job all wrong and how to correct your job preformence.
Friction's post was at the lowest, an attempt at humor, he never insulted anyone but he was addressing a concern about the people making this game, which I am a little concerned as well after going through this thread.
Yes dev's/mods are going to be held at a higher standard, they are not suppose to incite a thread like this. Like I said it makes the company and himself look bad.
If someone wrote a letter to my boss saying I had vented on someone like that, id get fired, and im held at much lower standards considering I work at a kiosk. If someone wrote a letter saying I wasn't a "good" cashier or w/e my boss would probably observe me for a day and let me know if im doing somthing wrong or somthing, not that I think thats relavent. ;p
How can you even sit there and say his post was an attempt at humor. He was trying to state that the company behind CoS was a screensaver company... go read his first post again. It clear states that in the post.
Developer did not incite this thread, friction2u post about the company behind CoS was nothing more then a screensaver company trying to develop a MMO. Which was proven wrong, clearly.
I think personally it makes the Developer look better by not pussy footing his answer, I respect people that speak their mind and not try to keep everyone happy. I rather have a developer rip the shit out of some random guy trying to spread lies about his company then a developer that acts all nice and buddy like to the same guy.
Maybe its just me but I am so sick of this political correctness shit that it is refreshing to see someone not hold back anything and try to please the world.
Because he posted a screenshot of some tiny lil no where offices, I thought it was pretty funny
And they did in fact make screensavers prior to starting on CoS, so in a way what he said was true! I tried to google mmo magic to see how much expirence these guy's have had and so far all we know is some of them have done screensavers. Nothing was proven false about that, it was added on that they are working toghether with mmo magic or w/e.
Im sorry, but that post just made him look like a 10 year old, adults, don't act like that my friend, especially not when your representing alot of other people. He doesnt have to be nice about it, heck he doesn't have to respond at all, could've brushed the whole thing off and no one would mind.
Sorry but thats how it works, this game isn't going to sale if the dev's are gonna act like that, it just pushes customers away.
Wow...I'm shoced so many people are still crying about this. This will be the last post I make in this thread since you all seem rather stubborn on your opinion.
None of you can actually speak from Jatar's posistion (except for Tdog). You do NOT now how much Friction's words may offend a developer...You say you have never seen a developer act the way Jatar did...that's utter bullcrap. If you never have seen a developer/site admin act that way, then you need to go refresh some memory. This happens.
Wether you want to believe it or not, there were some shots at the game and the devs in general in that post.
"So the people making CoS are probably a very small team with limited game/3d modelling experience - hence the crappy screenshots and the need for a publisher to inject money into the project so they can hire talented people and get the ball rolling."
"The problem I'm seeing is that no publisher or investor is going to stump up cash to a screensaver company on the strength of those screenshots."
"What motivated me was the appalling graphics and the rough-looking official site. I just had to know who was behind this. Scammers? College kids? Leprechauns?"
"CoS devs - you have to improve what your game looks like (concept art, cgi trailer, renders, screenshots) to have any chance of success.
Seriously."
Friction's post CLEARLY showed a lac of respect in his original post. I must say, you people really need to learn how to read if you seriusly thought Jatar's post was just out of the blue. He should show no more respect just because he is a developer; that is utter crap. Friction was clearly rude about it, so Jatar will be as well.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
You seem rather stubborn about yours as well my friend
The dev has no reason to take offense, the OP was not directed at him, it never even called him out. Have you read some of the threads in other games people make? This is absolutely nothing compared to what AoC has been getting, and the following responses were over reacted.
I can recall one dev/mod who went over the line, i believe during when I played RYL2, needless to say his post was locked and deleted, and a week or so later he was fired I believe.
Beyond that, no I can say for myself I have not seen a dev flip out for any reason. =/
Yes shots were made at the game not the dev's, other than his suggestion that they need to step it up. Its called criticism I believe.
The game is still in early development, we don't know much about it, what I gather from the OP is he is not impressed with the few screenshots they've release with all this big talk, which is understandable and I agree on that.
If jater wants to be rude, i cant stop him, but it doesnt look good at all, and we're trying to tell you that if you want this game to look good you cant have dev's flippin out like that. It was uncalled for, he needs to practice some tolerance and restraint or somthing.
You seem rather stubborn about yours as well my friend
The dev has no reason to take offense, the OP was not directed at him, it never even called him out. Have you read some of the threads in other games people make? This is absolutely nothing compared to what AoC has been getting, and the following responses were over reacted.
I can recall one dev/mod who went over the line, i believe during when I played RYL2, needless to say his post was locked and deleted, and a week or so later he was fired I believe.
Beyond that, no I can say for myself I have not seen a dev flip out for any reason. =/
Yes shots were made at the game not the dev's, other than his suggestion that they need to step it up. Its called criticism I believe.
The game is still in early development, we don't know much about it, what I gather from the OP is he is not impressed with the few screenshots they've release with all this big talk, which is understandable and I agree on that.
If jater wants to be rude, i cant stop him, but it doesnt look good at all, and we're trying to tell you that if you want this game to look good you cant have dev's flippin out like that. It was uncalled for, he needs to practice some tolerance and restraint or somthing.
Yes Friction did take shots at the game, but if he's taking shots at the game he's taking shots at the people who make the game too.
While i agree that it was unneccesary the way Jatar responded it's nothing to overreact to. Just for a second put yourself in the shoes of a developer. You're working endless hours day & night to get the game you want it to be and then to come here to read Friction's post that just blatantly insulted a product that he/she has spent all their time & effort creating. It's just natural to feel pissed off. While this could've been avoided, it's nothing inhuman to see people express there anger.
All I have to say about this is for the critics to get over it & understand it from another prespective. You would all be liars if you said you didn't act in a way you didn't want to when something happened to you.
So lets just put this behind us and just keep on waiting for more info to come out on CoS. Keep up the good work MMO Magic!
Personally I saw Friction2u's post as an attack on CoS. Anyone who takes the time to Google Map a picture of a physical location isn't doing it for a laugh. I re-read the post now and I still can't take his post in any other way but as an insult.
If he had concerns he could have easily posted a new thread and asked Jatar. Jatar has been forthcoming with any information that he's been asked.
Instead, he appears to lead some crusade against CoS and how the company is just a "screensaver company." It's a crusade post.. a post designed to inflame responses from other.
I got a good laugh out of Jatar's response (which has now been edited by a forum mod). I agreed with his assessment and the relation to the poster and those shown on Jay Walking (where people are asked questions and make up crazy answers).
A lot of information about the game concept, design and status are available on their website. Other information can be found in Jatar's posts or simply asking him.
Instead, the thread tried to turn a small piece of information into some sort of conspiracy. A guy who works for MMO Magic made some money selling screensavers..... and?
I would be willing to bet anyone working on any other game has side projects either in the same industry or not related to it. It's no big deal, I don't see how this was some "revalation" that somehow someone from MMO Magic has a side job.
I'd also be pretty upset if some random person from the internet is now using satellite Google photos to track down where my employees live and post that information on public forums.
As for the screenshots... Jatar has posted multiple times that these are not the final screens. They are prototypes and placeholders. You can't have a world with nothing in it to work with, otherwise you have nothing.
Graphics mean nothing, anyway. EQ2 had awesome graphics and screenshots before release and was a failure of a game. Performance was horrid and the game looked nothing like it.
People complained that WoW looked like crap, but it's the biggest MMO in history.
Jatar has made no secret that gameplay and design comes first and Art will be done at the end. What's the point of spending money, time and resources developing art for an engine that isn't finished? Why would you devote so much time and energy without a game to put them in?
The answer is that a lot of MMO companies start with pretty graphics to wow publishers into giving them money. Core gameplay and design take a back seat to pretty graphics and effects.
MMO Magic is doing something different: they're focusing on the actual gameplay, design and technical details before pretty graphics. They want to do the game their way and make a working prototype before they go to a publisher. If all you have are pretty graphics, all you end up with is a pretty failure.
The posted screenshots are not here to wow you into playing... they're posted because if they DIDN'T show any screenshots, there would be other threads over and over again that the game doesn't exist because there aren't any screenshots!
Darkfall has had screenshots for YEARS and it's gone nowhere so far. What good are screenshots if the game doesn't even work?
Up until now, this forum has had a generally nice feel to it, and I have lurked my way through.
Many questions have been answered by the dev, and he has revealed as much as he feels he is able from the sounds of it.
I think this thread was started to create conflict.
Perhaps the dev was exhausted from working when he replied. He generally seems extremely helpful and reacts kindly to most nastiness. The best thing that can be done would be to quit posting on this thread and let it die. Let's not become like some of the other forums.
I want to play this game, so I am looking for positive things to do. There is an interesting thread about abilities started today. I am going to start trying to think of ability ideas to add to that thread.
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
You hold your opinion and I hold mine.
My view: Developers are people too. I see no problem with Jatar not showing respect to Friction, as Friction clearly showed rudeness towards the whole team. Saying that the team "needs to hire talented people" and calling them a "screensaver company" is clearly a painful shot. If I was on the internet, said you needed to hire more people and call you an untalented company/manager with no experience you wouldn't take offence to that?
After starting up a company, using some of their own money, taking three years to work your ass off for an MMO, and then to hear someone make foolish statements (which are actually covered in the FAQ if anyone bothers to read) just to start an arguement.....you're telling me that wouldn't piss you off? THAT is bulshit, wether you admit it or not.
You didn't start this billion dollar company. You're not a smaller company who used some of their own funds to get started, you're just working for the company. I'm not saying you don't work hard, but I am saying you cannot relate. Don't get me wrong, neither can I, but I am trying to see it from Jatar and the teams' view, instead of my own.
Listen, Jatar doesn't even have to post here. He comes here on his own time to help everyone who is interested in the game out, and I respect that. I would not be surprised if the whole team would be pissed by this post; as it really did tae some shots. Your first post maes no sense, being respectful or not, because no one thanks someone who takes shots at everything they worked for.
Once again, this is just my opinion. I don't believe Jatar should show respect for people who act like Friction did in this post; although it is clear you think otherwise.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
It has nothing to do with opinion and everything to do with being professional.
If you want to be respected in this world you have to show that you are strong and professional. This doesn't mean that one can't present their point of view but if you are a dev or an employee or the CEO you represent the company. You just do.
I have yet to see a gm, dev or anyone in a game company that was larger and more established behave this way. I can't say that it's never happened but I've never seen it. I've always seen cool professional if not sometimes aloof responses.
I am not saying that he shouldn't be pissed or angry or "whatever". I am saying that being professional is more than something that you just say.
Perhaps in a small startup it's not an issue but once you start getting established it is. And I assure you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that once a company goes public, if someone were to use that attitude in a public forum and were not dealth with and it started affecting business and stocks, the company would get sued.
You can have yoru opinion that he should be justified to feel that way but professional companies won't stand for this. Even if they want to. They might do other things such as call in the lawyers for slander or some such thing but it will be done in a way that saves the company face if they can do it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Like it or not, he's the face of the company here. They're trying to promote a product that they want people to eventually buy. Personally insulting individuals, as the "face of the company" is NOT how you gain customers. People don't like that. If you got pulled over by a cop for speeding, and he proceeded to personally insult you and your passengers for much of the traffic stop, would you go home and say "Well, I deserved it. I was going 10 mph too fast." Maybe...but I know I wouldn't be too happy.
And, as I said before, the product we're talking about is an MMO. When/if it launches, there are going to be hundreds/thousands of negative posts about the game, its system, and its designers, every day. We alll know that. All the while the devs are STILL going to be working long hours on a very personal product. So, is this how they're going to act on the official forums?
If so, then no thanks. He would have been better off ignoring the "insulting" post, and let the well informed among you correct the mistakes.
Again, I say, bad form.
I have no idea what world you guys live in but in "my" world which is the professional world you don't go off like that. I work for a 1 billion dollar a year company. Not the highest but not chump change. And I can assure you that any person who addressed anyone like that, no matter what they said, would be fired. End of subject.
As a matter of fact in all my companies I can't think of any instance in any company or even college that I worked for where a professional could do that.
It's just not done. if you think this is acceptable and your current job would allow it then I highly suggest you stay there for a good long time as you are in for a huge dissapointment if you ever change jobs.
As far as I am concerned I am a manager in my day life and I would have reprimanded him if he worked for me.
wow. just wow. I'm simply amazed.
Well you are correct with your post but you are not comparing the same type of Situation. You are viewing the situation from the wrong point of view. You are looking at it from a employee addressing another employee or a client or potiental client. Friction2u is none of these. This situation is basicly this.
You are on a company business trip, your sitting in the hotel lobby eatting breakfast. Some guy is talking to his friend and is just bashing your company. He is telling his friend that your company is a bunch of untalented hacks that cannot do anything and that you company sells drugs to little children. He then goes on to say that everyone that works for that company is dumber then a rock and they all are about as useful as ice in greenland.
Your telling me you would not give that guy a piece of your mind? Honestly? You are a better person then I my friend, because I would destroy that mans will to live.
Sooner or Later