I've seen better at 3:00AM at Tyrena, Corellia on a schoolnight in October of 2004 (more than a year after launch).
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Beatnik59 I've seen better at 3:00AM at Tyrena, Corellia on a schoolnight in October of 2004 (more than a year after launch).
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did. The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards. There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason. EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact). There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
I've seen better at 3:00AM at Tyrena, Corellia on a schoolnight in October of 2004 (more than a year after launch).
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently .
Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say .
Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Beatnik59
I've seen better at 3:00AM at Tyrena, Corellia on a schoolnight in October of 2004 (more than a year after launch).
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did. The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards. There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason. EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact). There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure. Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently . Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say . Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
Oh, and people are not saying the game has grown over the last year. Some say that; others don't. What we see is stagnation in that game; those that like the changes say the game is getting better. Those that don't say the game is dying; I see stagnation since I see all improvements as marginal at best, with just as many mistakes along the way.
I see bad management all around, and the results of that management.
I have been there all along; and all I have seen is some very bad management continually makeing bad decisions, continuing to shift blame, and the predictable results of that bad behavior.
One thing that bothered me about this whole screenshot thing is that probably over 90% of the player housing is owned by non-active accounts - not a very good way to measure server population. My character, which I have not played since a few weeks before NGE (I got my ass off right when I saw that crap active on the TC), still has two generic guild halls, along with a few medium sized houses on the grid - I checked when I had SWG installed for a total of 2 hours while using the vet trial.
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
I would not consider LOTRO a failure , even the line up of NCsoft games do what they seem to be meant to (lineage2 has a huge pop) . SWG yes ,with the I.P. alone they should be far ahead of where they are , But we all know how that came to be(SOE/LA failures).
I don't think every game should be catagorized in terms of Blockbusters , Some are made to be Niche . I wouldn't doubt if LOTR and EVE actually have close to the same amount of players same goes for COH/V .
I should take back the term stagnation.And replace it with Not for the SWG player .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
I would not consider LOTRO a failure , even the line up of NCsoft games do what they seem to be meant to (lineage2 has a huge pop) . SWG yes ,with the I.P. alone they should be far ahead of where they are , But we all know how that came to be(SOE/LA failures). I don't think every game should be catagorized in terms of Blockbusters , Some are made to be Niche . I wouldn't doubt if LOTR and EVE actually have close to the same amount of players same goes for COH/V . I should take back the term stagnation.And replace it with Not for the SWG player .
If they aren't growing they are failures. Eve continues to grow; if they others are growing, they are success as well. If they are stagnant they are failures. This is a growing market, the earth's population is growing=, markets are expanding and anyone who is not growing with it is doing something wrong that the competition is doing right.
I specifically brought up Eve and WoW because they are completely different games; this shows it's not the game concept that matters as much as the game's management and the choices they make.
One thing that bothered me about this whole screenshot thing is that probably over 90% of the player housing is owned by non-active accounts - not a very good way to measure server population. My character, which I have not played since a few weeks before NGE (I got my ass off right when I saw that crap active on the TC), still has two generic guild halls, along with a few medium sized houses on the grid - I checked when I had SWG installed for a total of 2 hours while using the vet trial.
You should see the area surrounding the MO , dantooine , On Bloodfin . It's like riding through a graveyard as was riding through our guilds city on Rori , Lake Alderan .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they aren't growing they are failures. Eve continues to grow; if they others are growing, they are success as well. If they are stagnant they are failures. This is a growing market, the earth's population is growing=, markets are expanding and anyone who is not growing with it is doing something wrong that the competition is doing right. I specifically brought up Eve and WoW because they are completely different games; this shows it's not the game concept that matters as much as the game's management and the choices they make.
I doubt either of us have the knowledge to sustain whether those titles have been growing , Others who actually play would be a better meter to gauge by . Besides don't want to go to far off topic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've seen better at 3:00AM at Tyrena, Corellia on a schoolnight in October of 2004 (more than a year after launch).
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently .
Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say .
Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
WoW has become a cultural phenomenon. It transcends the rest of the MMO industry. WoW has been featured on several television shows because it is a reference that people who don't normally play PC video games will get. WoW has captured a market that won't move on to the next great MMO hope. Most of them will go back to not playing PC video games when they finally leave WoW.
Wow has very low system specs, which allows pretty much everyone who has owned a PC bought within the last five years to jump in and play. If it comes down to shelling out a hundred or so bucks to upgrade their system to play something else, most of those people are going to forget it and either stick with WoW or move on from playing games on their PC.
Wow is the same boat as The Sims as far as the people who play it. Both are wildly successful beyond the general PC game market because they appeal to non-gamers. WoW is practically in an entirely different market than the rest of the MMOs. WoW's competition is The Sims series of games, not other MMORPGs.
What is it about Wow that you think other companies should look to copy? Almost all of them have copied the basic game mechanics of WoW, which are just a rehash of the DIKU MUD style that EQ was a direct decendent of. All but Turbine have decided that using WoW's mechanics along with high system specs was the way to go (Turbine kept their system specs pretty low). Most of the things that has made WoW as successful as it is are not things that can be copied.
None of this means that WoW hasn't grown the potential for other MMOs. Even if half of the folks who didn't play PC games prior to WoW decided to eventually move on to other MMOs, that will be a huge increase in the number of potential customers. I don't honestly think the number will be that high, but I also don't think any other MMO has the potential to even come close to WoW's numbers.
Subscriber retention is the base for growth, but unless the games attract new customers on a constant basis, they will still be stagnate. That is where pretty much every MMO that isn't WoW is at right now. They have a core base of players that have made those games their home, but those bases are not growing, and eventually the folks who make up the core base will begin to move on, at which point those games will begin to die. Games like LotRO and CoX aren't dying, but they are stagnant (CoX is very likely to take a major hit in the next two years with Champions Online and DCUO on the way, even though I certain that DCUO is going to be a huge mess). It is far too soon to see what AoC is going to do, but so far Funcom isn't instilling much faith that things are going to be getting much better any time soon (since its the MMO I am currently playing, this worries me, so far it is like SWG's launch all over).
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
WoW has become a cultural phenomenon. It transcends the rest of the MMO industry. WoW has been featured on several television shows because it is a reference that people who don't normally play PC video games will get. WoW has captured a market that won't move on to the next great MMO hope. Most of them will go back to not playing PC video games when they finally leave WoW.
Wow has very low system specs, which allows pretty much everyone who has owned a PC bought within the last five years to jump in and play. If it comes down to shelling out a hundred or so bucks to upgrade their system to play something else, most of those people are going to forget it and either stick with WoW or move on from playing games on their PC.
Wow is the same boat as The Sims as far as the people who play it. Both are wildly successful beyond the general PC game market because they appeal to non-gamers. WoW is practically in an entirely different market than the rest of the MMOs. WoW's competition is The Sims series of games, not other MMORPGs.
What is it about Wow that you think other companies should look to copy? Almost all of them have copied the basic game mechanics of WoW, which are just a rehash of the DIKU MUD style that EQ was a direct decendent of. All but Turbine have decided that using WoW's mechanics along with high system specs was the way to go (Turbine kept their system specs pretty low). Most of the things that has made WoW as successful as it is are not things that can be copied.
None of this means that WoW hasn't grown the potential for other MMOs. Even if half of the folks who didn't play PC games prior to WoW decided to eventually move on to other MMOs, that will be a huge increase in the number of potential customers. I don't honestly think the number will be that high, but I also don't think any other MMO has the potential to even come close to WoW's numbers.
Subscriber retention is the base for growth, but unless the games attract new customers on a constant basis, they will still be stagnate. That is where pretty much every MMO that isn't WoW is at right now. They have a core base of players that have made those games their home, but those bases are not growing, and eventually the folks who make up the core base will begin to move on, at which point those games will begin to die. Games like LotRO and CoX aren't dying, but they are stagnant (CoX is very likely to take a major hit in the next two years with Champions Online and DCUO on the way, even though I certain that DCUO is going to be a huge mess). It is far too soon to see what AoC is going to do, but so far Funcom isn't instilling much faith that things are going to be getting much better any time soon (since its the MMO I am currently playing, this worries me, so far it is like SWG's launch all over).
They should copy the service model blizzard practices . Fine QA , as a primary focus would help alleviate the downward spiral a lot of companies are facing at present . Sure LOTRO and COH probably aren't growing by much anymore , But they also haven't been bleeding numbers either. That is probably due to their QA first and foremost ,how often do you see an uproar in regards to either ?
Look at what's going on over at WAR"S board as we speak , They had to drop some things before launch , But they also had the guts to tell everyone the reasons at the same time. Sure dropping features before launch is never good , But honesty always pays off . And the uproar has been mild , With more understanding expressed from posters, rather than the typical "They are evil , burn them "lingo you most likely would have seen if they launched ,without being upfront about the features not being in .
Yeah I have been playing AOC as well , it has looked more and more like early swg with every step funcom has made. As of now the furture dosen't look to bright , Yet again showing how lack of QA and dishonesty can lead to any MMO's doom .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Fishermage
If they aren't growing they are failures. Eve continues to grow; if they others are growing, they are success as well. If they are stagnant they are failures. This is a growing market, the earth's population is growing=, markets are expanding and anyone who is not growing with it is doing something wrong that the competition is doing right. I specifically brought up Eve and WoW because they are completely different games; this shows it's not the game concept that matters as much as the game's management and the choices they make.
I doubt either of us have the knowledge to sustain whether those titles have been growing , Others who actually play would be a better meter to gauge by . Besides don't want to go to far off topic. That is why I used the word "if." I do know that WoW and Eve ARE growing, have continued to grow, and why.
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product. There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
WoW has become a cultural phenomenon. It transcends the rest of the MMO industry. WoW has been featured on several television shows because it is a reference that people who don't normally play PC video games will get. WoW has captured a market that won't move on to the next great MMO hope. Most of them will go back to not playing PC video games when they finally leave WoW. Wow has very low system specs, which allows pretty much everyone who has owned a PC bought within the last five years to jump in and play. If it comes down to shelling out a hundred or so bucks to upgrade their system to play something else, most of those people are going to forget it and either stick with WoW or move on from playing games on their PC. Wow is the same boat as The Sims as far as the people who play it. Both are wildly successful beyond the general PC game market because they appeal to non-gamers. WoW is practically in an entirely different market than the rest of the MMOs. WoW's competition is The Sims series of games, not other MMORPGs. What is it about Wow that you think other companies should look to copy? Almost all of them have copied the basic game mechanics of WoW, which are just a rehash of the DIKU MUD style that EQ was a direct decendent of. All but Turbine have decided that using WoW's mechanics along with high system specs was the way to go (Turbine kept their system specs pretty low). Most of the things that has made WoW as successful as it is are not things that can be copied. None of this means that WoW hasn't grown the potential for other MMOs. Even if half of the folks who didn't play PC games prior to WoW decided to eventually move on to other MMOs, that will be a huge increase in the number of potential customers. I don't honestly think the number will be that high, but I also don't think any other MMO has the potential to even come close to WoW's numbers. Subscriber retention is the base for growth, but unless the games attract new customers on a constant basis, they will still be stagnate. That is where pretty much every MMO that isn't WoW is at right now. They have a core base of players that have made those games their home, but those bases are not growing, and eventually the folks who make up the core base will begin to move on, at which point those games will begin to die. Games like LotRO and CoX aren't dying, but they are stagnant (CoX is very likely to take a major hit in the next two years with Champions Online and DCUO on the way, even though I certain that DCUO is going to be a huge mess). It is far too soon to see what AoC is going to do, but so far Funcom isn't instilling much faith that things are going to be getting much better any time soon (since its the MMO I am currently playing, this worries me, so far it is like SWG's launch all over).
The reason that WoW succeeds while the others fail is basicaly because it doesn't suck, it's a clean smart, well working game that keeps ADDING to ITSELF instead of changing its core trying to find itself. That's just what EVE is.
Every game that has stagnated either isn't that good as a product (VG, MXO, SWG, D&D, POTBS, certainly fit here) , or has had changes that have alienated too many players (EQ, SWG, UO, COX and DAOC all to different degrees fall into this category), or hasn't added enough fast enough to get new players and keep players.
The way to success is get your core, build on it, never release anything with gamebreaking bugs, and if you do have any bugs fix them IMMEDIATELY.
You make sure that when people leave your game, they telle evryone of the positive experience they had, and that builds customers.
WoW and EVE both succeed in doing that. THAT is the standard that both set. It's not the SIZE, it's the growth. I see them as extremely similar in strategies. They produce products that do not suck and are made to grow.
Well I don't have any characters on Bloodfin, but I do have a station pass and occasionally do log into my characters. Needless to say the 3 servers I have characters on are literally vacant. The only store that I knew was open is now vacant the fellow moved on. If you cannot buy things, you certainly cannot play the silly game.
So SOE should just close all the servers except for one or two and be done with it, this game is deader than a doornail.
Are SWG O-Board members trying to "pursuade" us about SWG's greatness here?* It's that time again?
Their efforts are fruitless here. We've dealt with SOE's shit before, not dealing with it again.
Plus, the game's piss-poor reputation is WELL BEYOND this website's SWG Veteran Refuge forum. There are many, many SWG Vets out there who still remember the sting they felt from late 2005 and the NGE. You guys can go ahead and try to crusade in other battlegrounds, but you won't get far. I can guarantee that.
If somebody you know punched you in the face twice already, would you turn your cheek for a third?
* Edit to add: Well, SWG had greatness in the past, but not anymore, not since the NGE.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Want to hear a good story about population influx? Kettenmoor, one of the dead servers just gained about 100 players over the past 2 months. How do I know? Because I'm in the guild they are in, lol. SWG will never be SWG of old, but guess what, I'm having fun again. Even though crafting isn't as profitable it's still the best damn crafting system in the MMO genre. I was anti SWG, but not so much as some of these dudes, lol. I don't think some of them will ever be happy, even with a SWG 2 game. I post here about once or twice every year cause I'm sick of how overboard these guys get. In fact, I don't know why Im even bothering to post today cause after years of debating with them, they are beyond stubborn with their narrowed vision.
The problem with the Kettenmoor example is that those players, if posts on these forums are any indication, are coming from other servers to take advantage of being able to start cities on any planet and various other reasons. So, those aren't 100 new players. They come at the expense of other servers. This is not to say that this isn't great for those players who have gone to the server, but it is hardly something you can consider an "influx" so much as a "migration".
That is purely my opinion though based on the people who have psoted here trying to get other players to join them on Kettenmoor.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Want to hear a good story about population influx? Kettenmoor, one of the dead servers just gained about 100 players over the past 2 months. How do I know? Because I'm in the guild they are in, lol. SWG will never be SWG of old, but guess what, I'm having fun again. Even though crafting isn't as profitable it's still the best damn crafting system in the MMO genre. I was anti SWG, but not so much as some of these dudes, lol. I don't think some of them will ever be happy, even with a SWG 2 game. I post here about once or twice every year cause I'm sick of how overboard these guys get. In fact, I don't know why Im even bothering to post today cause after years of debating with them, they are beyond stubborn with their narrowed vision.
I see. So being against fraud is "narrowed vision?" Well, that's one way of looking at it. I am sure Smedley would approve.
Want to hear a good story about population influx? Kettenmoor, one of the dead servers just gained about 100 players over the past 2 months. How do I know? Because I'm in the guild they are in, lol. SWG will never be SWG of old, but guess what, I'm having fun again. Even though crafting isn't as profitable it's still the best damn crafting system in the MMO genre. I was anti SWG, but not so much as some of these dudes, lol. I don't think some of them will ever be happy, even with a SWG 2 game. I post here about once or twice every year cause I'm sick of how overboard these guys get. In fact, I don't know why Im even bothering to post today cause after years of debating with them, they are beyond stubborn with their narrowed vision.
You're golden, man. You talk about how you don't like the CU/NGE here:
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Now, before you call me a troll, just let me say one thing. I didn't like the CU/NGE at all, but KOTOR Online will not be the SWG2 I'm waiting for. This is just my opinion, so please feel free to disagree, cause thats the purpose of this website.
Yet you still play and pay for the game after all this time.
Oh well. I guess $med / $OE likes people like you.
Some of us just have higher standards and don't like to come back to the same company that took a crap on its fans.
Shame on SOE for fooling us once. But I'll be damned if I allow myself to be fooled again, much less repeatedly by allowing them to get my subscription money.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The already healthier servers are getting even healthier because transfers and because new players go there. Bloodfin has a ver healthy population (yesterday it was at heavy status and I counted up to 800 concurrent no anonimous players using the new search system). I can tell you it's packed compared to others I've visited. I'd say, 40% of servers are healthy and others not. So yes you more than right and the ones telling you otherwise are disgrunted vets that don't want that to happen.
2/5 of the servers being healthy...... describe "healthy" is that medium+ or heavy+. I agree there are about 3-4 servers that have a good population, but the rest are all barren. Considering how many servers there are. 2/5 (or 40%) has got to be around 6 servers im guessing (dont know the number of servers exactly). Next time explain what "healthy" means when you decide to post in the SWG vet refuge, you need to be clear or else you come off as a troll or somebody who doesnt belong here.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I loved this, what's left of my server...an old friend from my guild, guess he handed his account over to his kid who kicking the crap out of the leftover vets over there hehe
[07:55 pm] clagg: my son loves it. he is only 10 tho, never played the old game.. he is a big PvPer, has over 400 pvp kills in about 4 months
[07:57 pm] vanive: lol right on, that says alot about the people left playing being killed by an uber PvP'n 10 year old
[07:59 pm] clagg: ive watched, he knows what he is doing..plus (----) hooked him up with a full set of uber statted clothing
Comments
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
fishermage.blogspot.com
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently .
Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say .
Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently .
Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say .
Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Oh, and people are not saying the game has grown over the last year. Some say that; others don't. What we see is stagnation in that game; those that like the changes say the game is getting better. Those that don't say the game is dying; I see stagnation since I see all improvements as marginal at best, with just as many mistakes along the way.
I see bad management all around, and the results of that management.
I have been there all along; and all I have seen is some very bad management continually makeing bad decisions, continuing to shift blame, and the predictable results of that bad behavior.
fishermage.blogspot.com
One thing that bothered me about this whole screenshot thing is that probably over 90% of the player housing is owned by non-active accounts - not a very good way to measure server population. My character, which I have not played since a few weeks before NGE (I got my ass off right when I saw that crap active on the TC), still has two generic guild halls, along with a few medium sized houses on the grid - I checked when I had SWG installed for a total of 2 hours while using the vet trial.
I would not consider LOTRO a failure , even the line up of NCsoft games do what they seem to be meant to (lineage2 has a huge pop) . SWG yes ,with the I.P. alone they should be far ahead of where they are , But we all know how that came to be(SOE/LA failures).
I don't think every game should be catagorized in terms of Blockbusters , Some are made to be Niche . I wouldn't doubt if LOTR and EVE actually have close to the same amount of players same goes for COH/V .
I should take back the term stagnation.And replace it with Not for the SWG player .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think every game should be catagorized in terms of Blockbusters , Some are made to be Niche . I wouldn't doubt if LOTR and EVE actually have close to the same amount of players same goes for COH/V .
I should take back the term stagnation.And replace it with Not for the SWG player .
If they aren't growing they are failures. Eve continues to grow; if they others are growing, they are success as well. If they are stagnant they are failures. This is a growing market, the earth's population is growing=, markets are expanding and anyone who is not growing with it is doing something wrong that the competition is doing right.
I specifically brought up Eve and WoW because they are completely different games; this shows it's not the game concept that matters as much as the game's management and the choices they make.
fishermage.blogspot.com
You should see the area surrounding the MO , dantooine , On Bloodfin . It's like riding through a graveyard as was riding through our guilds city on Rori , Lake Alderan .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I doubt either of us have the knowledge to sustain whether those titles have been growing , Others who actually play would be a better meter to gauge by . Besides don't want to go to far off topic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It is now 5 years after launch
It's a bit more than two and a half years after a disastrous revamp that has yet to be fixed. A revamp that was meant to increase the number of players, not decimate them as it did.
The OP was just another in a long line of 'Please come play the game with me, I'm so lonely! It's really good now, really! The only reason no one else plays is because of all those mean jerks who don't understand how much better the game is now!' posts that pop up after some other lonely current player makes a 'How can we increase the population? I know, lets lie about how great the game is on other forums!' post that pops up on the OBoards.
There is a reason LEC no longer feels it is worth the time or money to print up CDs and boxes to keep the game in retail stores. It isn't because of how much fun it is now, it's because of how much fun the game isn't, and how nobody wants to buy it for that reason.
EQ has been out for ten years. It has more players than SWG. SWG's dismal state has nothing to do with age.
True, EQ is a staple in MMO history however. My point wasn't that SWG is doing okay , Honestly I really don't know what numbers SOE feels are okay . But you can't expect a 5 year old game to have the same numbers it had at launch , Look at games like AOC . They have lost a huge percentage of their launch players and they aren't even a year old(not even 3 months old to be exact).
There you go with that "fun" conversation again .
Actually, a five year old game should be far bigger than at launch. MMOs should GROW over time, not shrink. That's what EVE online and WoW have done, and those are completely different style MMOs. Just because most don't doesn't mean that's what ought to happen, or a game's NOT growing over time is excusable. That speaks of pre-ordained failure.
Any successful business venture should grow forever. The minute that stops, there are no excuses; just a failure of the people involved.
That speaks to the stagantion of the industry at present , most games aren't growing . Your Two examples show just that , Everyone leaves their first choice to start up in games like WOW or EVE. But those games also continue to expand through free and paid content . Games like LOTRO are more niche and garner players looking for something to play casually so I'd catagorize them differently .
Can you really catagorize NGE as (obee pointed out) as a five year old game ? Or is it around three ? Has it grown or shrunk ? I haven't played it since 05 really aside from 2 days this week and a few trials , So I really couldn't say .
Sure it's lost a lot of the people who were there at the onset of NGE , But are they to be considered NGE players or CU ? SWG is hard to gauge in your break down of the way an MMO is supposed to grow . If people on the GD board are to be believed it would seem it has grown over the last year . But how would you calculate that in a manner for this debate ? I ask you because I know you still play and have throughout the NGE .
My point is that in this industry right now, there are two successes; the rest are failures, and should be termed as such, there is no mysterious being called an industry; an indutsry is no more than the aggregate of the businesses that make up that industry. If most are losers, and twp are winners, that doesn't mean the "industry is stagnant," just that most of the players are causing stagnation due to bad decisions. The rest is exxcuses.
WoW is an outlier, and as such, it isn't a good metric on which to base success (wow does that come across as pretentious or what?). Otherwise you're correct, pretty much every MMO has been a failure as far as growth is concerned.
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
WoW has become a cultural phenomenon. It transcends the rest of the MMO industry. WoW has been featured on several television shows because it is a reference that people who don't normally play PC video games will get. WoW has captured a market that won't move on to the next great MMO hope. Most of them will go back to not playing PC video games when they finally leave WoW.
Wow has very low system specs, which allows pretty much everyone who has owned a PC bought within the last five years to jump in and play. If it comes down to shelling out a hundred or so bucks to upgrade their system to play something else, most of those people are going to forget it and either stick with WoW or move on from playing games on their PC.
Wow is the same boat as The Sims as far as the people who play it. Both are wildly successful beyond the general PC game market because they appeal to non-gamers. WoW is practically in an entirely different market than the rest of the MMOs. WoW's competition is The Sims series of games, not other MMORPGs.
What is it about Wow that you think other companies should look to copy? Almost all of them have copied the basic game mechanics of WoW, which are just a rehash of the DIKU MUD style that EQ was a direct decendent of. All but Turbine have decided that using WoW's mechanics along with high system specs was the way to go (Turbine kept their system specs pretty low). Most of the things that has made WoW as successful as it is are not things that can be copied.
None of this means that WoW hasn't grown the potential for other MMOs. Even if half of the folks who didn't play PC games prior to WoW decided to eventually move on to other MMOs, that will be a huge increase in the number of potential customers. I don't honestly think the number will be that high, but I also don't think any other MMO has the potential to even come close to WoW's numbers.
Subscriber retention is the base for growth, but unless the games attract new customers on a constant basis, they will still be stagnate. That is where pretty much every MMO that isn't WoW is at right now. They have a core base of players that have made those games their home, but those bases are not growing, and eventually the folks who make up the core base will begin to move on, at which point those games will begin to die. Games like LotRO and CoX aren't dying, but they are stagnant (CoX is very likely to take a major hit in the next two years with Champions Online and DCUO on the way, even though I certain that DCUO is going to be a huge mess). It is far too soon to see what AoC is going to do, but so far Funcom isn't instilling much faith that things are going to be getting much better any time soon (since its the MMO I am currently playing, this worries me, so far it is like SWG's launch all over).
I've never quite understood this thought , how is WOW not a good metric to base success ? It is the most successful MMO to date . It shows if all the right things come together , An MMO can be a HUGE success. It's player retention numbers speak volumes as well ,of what to do to keep a player base seeded within your product.
There is a lot other companies could learn from the paramount success Blizzard has seen with wow. So I would hope companies do base their furture buisness models on what blizzard has acheived . They may not get numbers in the 10's of millions , But their customers will atleast possibly stick around , Which Invites growth .
WoW has become a cultural phenomenon. It transcends the rest of the MMO industry. WoW has been featured on several television shows because it is a reference that people who don't normally play PC video games will get. WoW has captured a market that won't move on to the next great MMO hope. Most of them will go back to not playing PC video games when they finally leave WoW.
Wow has very low system specs, which allows pretty much everyone who has owned a PC bought within the last five years to jump in and play. If it comes down to shelling out a hundred or so bucks to upgrade their system to play something else, most of those people are going to forget it and either stick with WoW or move on from playing games on their PC.
Wow is the same boat as The Sims as far as the people who play it. Both are wildly successful beyond the general PC game market because they appeal to non-gamers. WoW is practically in an entirely different market than the rest of the MMOs. WoW's competition is The Sims series of games, not other MMORPGs.
What is it about Wow that you think other companies should look to copy? Almost all of them have copied the basic game mechanics of WoW, which are just a rehash of the DIKU MUD style that EQ was a direct decendent of. All but Turbine have decided that using WoW's mechanics along with high system specs was the way to go (Turbine kept their system specs pretty low). Most of the things that has made WoW as successful as it is are not things that can be copied.
None of this means that WoW hasn't grown the potential for other MMOs. Even if half of the folks who didn't play PC games prior to WoW decided to eventually move on to other MMOs, that will be a huge increase in the number of potential customers. I don't honestly think the number will be that high, but I also don't think any other MMO has the potential to even come close to WoW's numbers.
Subscriber retention is the base for growth, but unless the games attract new customers on a constant basis, they will still be stagnate. That is where pretty much every MMO that isn't WoW is at right now. They have a core base of players that have made those games their home, but those bases are not growing, and eventually the folks who make up the core base will begin to move on, at which point those games will begin to die. Games like LotRO and CoX aren't dying, but they are stagnant (CoX is very likely to take a major hit in the next two years with Champions Online and DCUO on the way, even though I certain that DCUO is going to be a huge mess). It is far too soon to see what AoC is going to do, but so far Funcom isn't instilling much faith that things are going to be getting much better any time soon (since its the MMO I am currently playing, this worries me, so far it is like SWG's launch all over).
They should copy the service model blizzard practices . Fine QA , as a primary focus would help alleviate the downward spiral a lot of companies are facing at present . Sure LOTRO and COH probably aren't growing by much anymore , But they also haven't been bleeding numbers either. That is probably due to their QA first and foremost ,how often do you see an uproar in regards to either ?
Look at what's going on over at WAR"S board as we speak , They had to drop some things before launch , But they also had the guts to tell everyone the reasons at the same time. Sure dropping features before launch is never good , But honesty always pays off . And the uproar has been mild , With more understanding expressed from posters, rather than the typical "They are evil , burn them "lingo you most likely would have seen if they launched ,without being upfront about the features not being in .
Yeah I have been playing AOC as well , it has looked more and more like early swg with every step funcom has made. As of now the furture dosen't look to bright , Yet again showing how lack of QA and dishonesty can lead to any MMO's doom .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is why I used the word "if." I do know that WoW and Eve ARE growing, have continued to grow, and why.
fishermage.blogspot.com
The reason that WoW succeeds while the others fail is basicaly because it doesn't suck, it's a clean smart, well working game that keeps ADDING to ITSELF instead of changing its core trying to find itself. That's just what EVE is.
Every game that has stagnated either isn't that good as a product (VG, MXO, SWG, D&D, POTBS, certainly fit here) , or has had changes that have alienated too many players (EQ, SWG, UO, COX and DAOC all to different degrees fall into this category), or hasn't added enough fast enough to get new players and keep players.
The way to success is get your core, build on it, never release anything with gamebreaking bugs, and if you do have any bugs fix them IMMEDIATELY.
You make sure that when people leave your game, they telle evryone of the positive experience they had, and that builds customers.
WoW and EVE both succeed in doing that. THAT is the standard that both set. It's not the SIZE, it's the growth. I see them as extremely similar in strategies. They produce products that do not suck and are made to grow.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Well I don't have any characters on Bloodfin, but I do have a station pass and occasionally do log into my characters. Needless to say the 3 servers I have characters on are literally vacant. The only store that I knew was open is now vacant the fellow moved on. If you cannot buy things, you certainly cannot play the silly game.
So SOE should just close all the servers except for one or two and be done with it, this game is deader than a doornail.
Are SWG O-Board members trying to "pursuade" us about SWG's greatness here?* It's that time again?
Their efforts are fruitless here. We've dealt with SOE's shit before, not dealing with it again.
Plus, the game's piss-poor reputation is WELL BEYOND this website's SWG Veteran Refuge forum. There are many, many SWG Vets out there who still remember the sting they felt from late 2005 and the NGE. You guys can go ahead and try to crusade in other battlegrounds, but you won't get far. I can guarantee that.
If somebody you know punched you in the face twice already, would you turn your cheek for a third?
* Edit to add: Well, SWG had greatness in the past, but not anymore, not since the NGE.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The problem with the Kettenmoor example is that those players, if posts on these forums are any indication, are coming from other servers to take advantage of being able to start cities on any planet and various other reasons. So, those aren't 100 new players. They come at the expense of other servers. This is not to say that this isn't great for those players who have gone to the server, but it is hardly something you can consider an "influx" so much as a "migration".
That is purely my opinion though based on the people who have psoted here trying to get other players to join them on Kettenmoor.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I see. So being against fraud is "narrowed vision?" Well, that's one way of looking at it. I am sure Smedley would approve.
fishermage.blogspot.com
People are coming back to SWG atm because of the free time they've given out to everyone.
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Talking about SWG much?
You're golden, man. You talk about how you don't like the CU/NGE here:
From this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/post/2133392
Yet you still play and pay for the game after all this time.
Oh well. I guess $med / $OE likes people like you.
Some of us just have higher standards and don't like to come back to the same company that took a crap on its fans.
Shame on SOE for fooling us once. But I'll be damned if I allow myself to be fooled again, much less repeatedly by allowing them to get my subscription money.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
2/5 of the servers being healthy...... describe "healthy" is that medium+ or heavy+. I agree there are about 3-4 servers that have a good population, but the rest are all barren. Considering how many servers there are. 2/5 (or 40%) has got to be around 6 servers im guessing (dont know the number of servers exactly). Next time explain what "healthy" means when you decide to post in the SWG vet refuge, you need to be clear or else you come off as a troll or somebody who doesnt belong here.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I loved this, what's left of my server...an old friend from my guild, guess he handed his account over to his kid who kicking the crap out of the leftover vets over there hehe
[07:55 pm] clagg: my son loves it. he is only 10 tho, never played the old game.. he is a big PvPer, has over 400 pvp kills in about 4 months
[07:57 pm] vanive: lol right on, that says alot about the people left playing being killed by an uber PvP'n 10 year old
[07:59 pm] clagg: ive watched, he knows what he is doing..plus (----) hooked him up with a full set of uber statted clothing
[07:59 pm] vanive: hehe, thats cool
I live in Eastern Time zone, and when I was on at 3:30 this morning, theres was about 50 + people in mos eisley moving aroung.
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You led a great life.
Rest in Peace.
Laura "Taera" Genender 2008
Mount and Blade. Great Game
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/mountandblade/index.html?tag=result;title;0