Sooner or later, there is going to be a Congressional hearing on the legal status of virtual property ownership in MMOs. You can be pretty sure that Smed will be there. Microsoft will be there too. IGE will be there, as well as Linden. But who is going to be there for the players? Who is going to talk about the different perspectives (plural, mind you) that players possess about this sort of thing?
And what about scams? Do you know how easy it is these days to create an MMO scam, and how effective it can be? The scams are so easy to do, they look like legit games in every way, with official forums, screenshots, beta tests, participation in gaming conferences, and the like. The scams are so good, that the people here at MMORPG.com cannot tell the difference between scams and legit games..until it's too late. If the folks who run this website cannot tell which game is a scam and which isn't, how are players supposed to be able to research and tell the difference?
Yes, it's a hobby. It's a pasttime. It isn't as important as world peace, but it is important enough to all of us here that we want our pasttime to grow and thrive just as much (if not moreso) than the publishing and development houses want it to thrive.
But getting burned by scams, unfinished buggy software, wholesale redesigns post-launch, potentially slimy things like RMT and pre-order perks, draconian refund policies, and fly-by-night operations isn't making our hobby enjoyable. In fact, it's ruining it. Seeing how the publishers and development houses aren't doing anything to fix it, someone has to. Otherwise, we may not have our hobby for much longer.
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
Originally posted by redcap036 Originally posted by M1sf1t
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Sooner or later, there is going to be a Congressional hearing on the legal status of virtual property ownership in MMOs. You can be pretty sure that Smed will be there. Microsoft will be there too. IGE will be there, as well as Linden. But who is going to be there for the players? Who is going to talk about the different perspectives (plural, mind you) that players possess about this sort of thing? And what about scams? Do you know how easy it is these days to create an MMO scam, and how effective it can be? The scams are so easy to do, they look like legit games in every way, with official forums, screenshots, beta tests, participation in gaming conferences, and the like. The scams are so good, that the people here at MMORPG.com cannot tell the difference between scams and legit games..until it's too late. If the folks who run this website cannot tell which game is a scam and which isn't, how are players supposed to be able to research and tell the difference? Yes, it's a hobby. It's a pasttime. It isn't as important as world peace, but it is important enough to all of us here that we want our pasttime to grow and thrive just as much (if not moreso) than the publishing and development houses want it to thrive. But getting burned by scams, unfinished buggy software, wholesale redesigns post-launch, potentially slimy things like RMT and pre-order perks, draconian refund policies, and fly-by-night operations isn't making our hobby enjoyable. In fact, it's ruining it. Seeing how the publishers and development houses aren't doing anything to fix it, someone has to. Otherwise, we may not have our hobby for much longer.
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
His mention of the "legal status of virtual items" which can be applied to gold farming. Yet it doesn't matter because the whole concept "owning virtual items" is ridicules given the nature of virtual items and who owns the server hardware, IP, and server/client software. You pay to play on server but you don't "own" anything on it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Sooner or later, there is going to be a Congressional hearing on the legal status of virtual property ownership in MMOs. You can be pretty sure that Smed will be there. Microsoft will be there too. IGE will be there, as well as Linden. But who is going to be there for the players? Who is going to talk about the different perspectives (plural, mind you) that players possess about this sort of thing?
And what about scams? Do you know how easy it is these days to create an MMO scam, and how effective it can be? The scams are so easy to do, they look like legit games in every way, with official forums, screenshots, beta tests, participation in gaming conferences, and the like. The scams are so good, that the people here at MMORPG.com cannot tell the difference between scams and legit games..until it's too late. If the folks who run this website cannot tell which game is a scam and which isn't, how are players supposed to be able to research and tell the difference?
Yes, it's a hobby. It's a pasttime. It isn't as important as world peace, but it is important enough to all of us here that we want our pasttime to grow and thrive just as much (if not moreso) than the publishing and development houses want it to thrive.
But getting burned by scams, unfinished buggy software, wholesale redesigns post-launch, potentially slimy things like RMT and pre-order perks, draconian refund policies, and fly-by-night operations isn't making our hobby enjoyable. In fact, it's ruining it. Seeing how the publishers and development houses aren't doing anything to fix it, someone has to. Otherwise, we may not have our hobby for much longer.
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
His mention of the "legal status of virtual items" which can be applied to gold farming. Yet it doesn't matter because the whole concept "owning virtual items" is ridicules given the nature of virtual items and who owns the server hardware, IP, and server/client software. You pay to play on server but you don't "own" anything on it.
With item shops and RMT, it's getting harder and harder for publishers to claim that they have exclusive rights to do anything they want to a subscribers virtual possessions. It's pretty hard for them to justify why they have and need the power to both sell you something and take it away from you whenever they see fit, and for whatever reason they should choose.
Yet this is exactly what these publishers like Smed, Linden, and Microsoft will argue and are arguing right now, because it is not in their interest to follow the Uniform Commercial Code like every other business.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
People have made alot of good points on both sides of the arguement. My initial response was for the union. But I already come to MMORPG.com to choose a game I would like to play.
I would personally like to join a group of game players who want the same things from an MMOG. That way perhaps we would see a game actually made which I would like. If only enough people agreed with me.
If this Union was to protect gamers rights I would support it.
Voting with your wallet doesn't really work when developers aren't honest and the game is bugged and doesn't meet the claimed system requirements, look at AoC.
It works just fine. You don't have to buy a game the day it releases. Wait a month or two if you haven't had a chance to play it. Quite simple really.
I think a GPU is a good idea. Sure, noise on forums is one thing, but when people start forming unions on top of the forums it's another thing. The whole point is to make as much noise as possible.
Without reading all of the replies, I will reply to the OP only.
I agree 110% that the MMORPG market in particular has to be better monitored, especially with more and more players and games coming into the market. Right now it is like a Wild West. Non-MMOs need regulating as well. I would advocate a group that monitors all kinds of video games.
Not only should the MMO companies be made to answer for, but also their billing companies. Right now, I don't know who is handling my credit card details for the only MMO I am subbed to. The information is usually not made transparently clear about who handles your payment details. There are only a few MMO companies that specify clearly who the billing companies are and kudos to them!
I don't understand how these companies can false advertise like they have and still get away with it without already existant consumer protection laws kicking in to deal with them. Some companies have outright swindled their customers and provided vaporware or software that is so buggy that it is unusable. Other companies have come awfully close. Right now the onus is on the player to do extensive research before buying, and of course the only way to do that is by reading gamers' forums. Unfortunately, a lot of the time it's a war between 'fanbois' and 'haters', but ultimately I think that the smokescreens can be seen through in either direction. In my opinion, a legitimate complaint is if a product is shipped incomplete with promises of what's on the box and if many peoples' systems can't run the game with the specified requirements. Another legitimate concern are major bugs, or programs that screw up your computer's configuration (though not an MMO, anyone here remember the (S)Pool of Radiance fiasco in the late 90s early 2000s?). Even though gaming is a hobby and form of entertainment, I don't enjoy throwing away £30-odd for a game that doesn't fit the description on the back of the box or on the game's website. I would say about 20% of the games I've bought, with about 6% of those being MMOs have not delivered on their description or have been too buggy to play. I wouldn't pay £30 for any other product that didn't fulfil its advertised promise, therefore no customer should expect to do that with video games either. I really hate it when people who feel cheated post on forums and get an answer somewhat similar to 'it's an MMO, it's like other MMOs, don't bother with the genre if you can't handle this'. That is no excuse for false advertisement.
I don't know if a union would work per se. It might not ever become recognised by the companies, but a watchdog group probably would. Gamers are not a profession despite what some gaming addicts might think
The main issue of course is garnering enough clout to be able to get gaming companies to recognise us outside of the only power we got: canceling our subscription. It doesn't protect us from the initial box sale though and I don't think that we should buy-to-try and then get a piece of crap product. It's still £30 down the toilet.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Another point about the buy-to-try as a counter-arguement against those who say 'vote with your wallet, cancel your sub': those game companies who are dishonest about what they're actually offering, especially at release, have won if you bought the box. I can see a company eventually releasing an overhyped game, making loads of money off of the box sales in the first month or two, then shutting down the servers so that all of the players end up having spent £30 for a useless piece of software. Right now, there is no protection for us if that does happen. The company will still have made its ££.
Perhaps we shouldn't buy the first month of release, but there are two factors to keep in mind. The release of a new MMO is a bit like the release of a new movie. It always feels different if you are in the first batch of players at release and it can be a fantastic and memorable experience if it works out well, like LotRO. The other factor is that if virtually no one bought the MMO at the first month of release it would pretty much fold, even if it is a good MMO. Even so, I think the watchdog should be put in place to regulate the game even after release. Yes, game experience should change and does change as an MMO progresses, but should it change so much that it becomes a completely different game like SWG NGE? That is a perfect example of a large-scale player swindle with the release of ToOW that supported classes that in two weeks' time no longer existed after the NGE hit. I would have personally liked to have seen SoE named, shamed and heavily fined.
I think the solution is to force the companies to deliver on their advertised promises and to make them go under or fine them if they don't. It would be easier to regulate than every single gamer having to visit forums 1-2 months after a release and searching through the incessant flamewares to find out if a game delivers on its promises. The other solution of course is for game companies to advertise what their game is about. I knew very little about AoC other than it had gore and boobs in it until people started talking about what they experienced in beta once the NDA lifted. That made me think that Funcom weren't being open about what their game really contained and how it was structured, especially since I have been burnt before by this game company during my experience as an AO player. I know how FC deals with their players and as a result, I made the wise decision to not buy AoC. I am glad I didn't buy into the hype of gore and boobs (not that hard since I am female and am not attracted at all to the prospects of boobs anyway). But I've been burnt quite a few times before and I hope a watchdog group is formed to keep players informed so that they don't have to get burnt too.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
So true. When you buy the game in the box you are buying, and paying for, the developers salaries. Just like a singleplayer game.
When you start to pay the monthly fees, they of course have to pay for maintenance. They are also making a profit. So even before you have played the game they have made some profit. Every month you hang around in the game they just make that much more off you.
Going to a movie is a great example. You see the advertising for a movie. You think "thats looks good". After buying your ticket and seeing the movie you come out and realise that you saw the best bits in the advertising. You feel robbed.
Games are worse than that, they make computer generated "cinematic" movies for you to watch. The game will never be like that. Never look like that. Never play like that. Never give you the feeling the epic music score does.
Im begining to think that any MMORPG is just that. B.S. And my hopes for a game that I will like are probably not even possible. I might as well be waiting for the coming of Jesus Christ.
So the G.P.U would have a set of standards that all new MMOs should adhere to?
So all new games are the same?
Like no instancing? CoH is my favorite MMO ever created, it had instances, no equipment, no raiding. The G.P.U would hate this game. Sorry it's not WoW.
Comments
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
1. this is a freaking entertainment industry
2. this is a worldwide entertainment industry
3. GPU would do nothing that forums and subscriber numbers dont currently do
i can think of so many reasons as to why they dont need a GPU.
now a developers union...thats what we need.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
His mention of the "legal status of virtual items" which can be applied to gold farming. Yet it doesn't matter because the whole concept "owning virtual items" is ridicules given the nature of virtual items and who owns the server hardware, IP, and server/client software. You pay to play on server but you don't "own" anything on it.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Yeah right congressional hearings on gold farming...Wow if that ever happens I would vote out any member of congress from my State who went along with that stupid ass idea and wasted my tax dollars on that meeting. I can safely say that 95%-99% of the US population would be seriously pissed off at the wasting of our tax dollars on what amounts to pointless nerd rage internet issues.
So M1sf1t, althou your tax dollars are important to you and others, I would like it if you could please highlite the text in Beatnik59's comment's,( seen above) where he say that the congressional hearing is on gold farming.
His mention of the "legal status of virtual items" which can be applied to gold farming. Yet it doesn't matter because the whole concept "owning virtual items" is ridicules given the nature of virtual items and who owns the server hardware, IP, and server/client software. You pay to play on server but you don't "own" anything on it.
With item shops and RMT, it's getting harder and harder for publishers to claim that they have exclusive rights to do anything they want to a subscribers virtual possessions. It's pretty hard for them to justify why they have and need the power to both sell you something and take it away from you whenever they see fit, and for whatever reason they should choose.
Yet this is exactly what these publishers like Smed, Linden, and Microsoft will argue and are arguing right now, because it is not in their interest to follow the Uniform Commercial Code like every other business.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
People have made alot of good points on both sides of the arguement. My initial response was for the union. But I already come to MMORPG.com to choose a game I would like to play.
I would personally like to join a group of game players who want the same things from an MMOG. That way perhaps we would see a game actually made which I would like. If only enough people agreed with me.
If this Union was to protect gamers rights I would support it.
It works just fine. You don't have to buy a game the day it releases. Wait a month or two if you haven't had a chance to play it. Quite simple really.
I think a GPU is a good idea. Sure, noise on forums is one thing, but when people start forming unions on top of the forums it's another thing. The whole point is to make as much noise as possible.
Without reading all of the replies, I will reply to the OP only.
I agree 110% that the MMORPG market in particular has to be better monitored, especially with more and more players and games coming into the market. Right now it is like a Wild West. Non-MMOs need regulating as well. I would advocate a group that monitors all kinds of video games.
Not only should the MMO companies be made to answer for, but also their billing companies. Right now, I don't know who is handling my credit card details for the only MMO I am subbed to. The information is usually not made transparently clear about who handles your payment details. There are only a few MMO companies that specify clearly who the billing companies are and kudos to them!
I don't understand how these companies can false advertise like they have and still get away with it without already existant consumer protection laws kicking in to deal with them. Some companies have outright swindled their customers and provided vaporware or software that is so buggy that it is unusable. Other companies have come awfully close. Right now the onus is on the player to do extensive research before buying, and of course the only way to do that is by reading gamers' forums. Unfortunately, a lot of the time it's a war between 'fanbois' and 'haters', but ultimately I think that the smokescreens can be seen through in either direction. In my opinion, a legitimate complaint is if a product is shipped incomplete with promises of what's on the box and if many peoples' systems can't run the game with the specified requirements. Another legitimate concern are major bugs, or programs that screw up your computer's configuration (though not an MMO, anyone here remember the (S)Pool of Radiance fiasco in the late 90s early 2000s?). Even though gaming is a hobby and form of entertainment, I don't enjoy throwing away £30-odd for a game that doesn't fit the description on the back of the box or on the game's website. I would say about 20% of the games I've bought, with about 6% of those being MMOs have not delivered on their description or have been too buggy to play. I wouldn't pay £30 for any other product that didn't fulfil its advertised promise, therefore no customer should expect to do that with video games either. I really hate it when people who feel cheated post on forums and get an answer somewhat similar to 'it's an MMO, it's like other MMOs, don't bother with the genre if you can't handle this'. That is no excuse for false advertisement.
I don't know if a union would work per se. It might not ever become recognised by the companies, but a watchdog group probably would. Gamers are not a profession despite what some gaming addicts might think
The main issue of course is garnering enough clout to be able to get gaming companies to recognise us outside of the only power we got: canceling our subscription.
It doesn't protect us from the initial box sale though and I don't think that we should buy-to-try and then get a piece of crap product. It's still £30 down the toilet.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
Another point about the buy-to-try as a counter-arguement against those who say 'vote with your wallet, cancel your sub': those game companies who are dishonest about what they're actually offering, especially at release, have won if you bought the box. I can see a company eventually releasing an overhyped game, making loads of money off of the box sales in the first month or two, then shutting down the servers so that all of the players end up having spent £30 for a useless piece of software. Right now, there is no protection for us if that does happen. The company will still have made its ££.
Perhaps we shouldn't buy the first month of release, but there are two factors to keep in mind. The release of a new MMO is a bit like the release of a new movie. It always feels different if you are in the first batch of players at release and it can be a fantastic and memorable experience if it works out well, like LotRO. The other factor is that if virtually no one bought the MMO at the first month of release it would pretty much fold, even if it is a good MMO. Even so, I think the watchdog should be put in place to regulate the game even after release. Yes, game experience should change and does change as an MMO progresses, but should it change so much that it becomes a completely different game like SWG NGE? That is a perfect example of a large-scale player swindle with the release of ToOW that supported classes that in two weeks' time no longer existed after the NGE hit. I would have personally liked to have seen SoE named, shamed and heavily fined.
I think the solution is to force the companies to deliver on their advertised promises and to make them go under or fine them if they don't. It would be easier to regulate than every single gamer having to visit forums 1-2 months after a release and searching through the incessant flamewares to find out if a game delivers on its promises. The other solution of course is for game companies to advertise what their game is about. I knew very little about AoC other than it had gore and boobs in it until people started talking about what they experienced in beta once the NDA lifted. That made me think that Funcom weren't being open about what their game really contained and how it was structured, especially since I have been burnt before by this game company during my experience as an AO player. I know how FC deals with their players and as a result, I made the wise decision to not buy AoC. I am glad I didn't buy into the hype of gore and boobs (not that hard since I am female and am not attracted at all to the prospects of boobs anyway). But I've been burnt quite a few times before and I hope a watchdog group is formed to keep players informed so that they don't have to get burnt too.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
So true. When you buy the game in the box you are buying, and paying for, the developers salaries. Just like a singleplayer game.
When you start to pay the monthly fees, they of course have to pay for maintenance. They are also making a profit. So even before you have played the game they have made some profit. Every month you hang around in the game they just make that much more off you.
Going to a movie is a great example. You see the advertising for a movie. You think "thats looks good". After buying your ticket and seeing the movie you come out and realise that you saw the best bits in the advertising. You feel robbed.
Games are worse than that, they make computer generated "cinematic" movies for you to watch. The game will never be like that. Never look like that. Never play like that. Never give you the feeling the epic music score does.
Im begining to think that any MMORPG is just that. B.S. And my hopes for a game that I will like are probably not even possible. I might as well be waiting for the coming of Jesus Christ.
So the G.P.U would have a set of standards that all new MMOs should adhere to?
So all new games are the same?
Like no instancing? CoH is my favorite MMO ever created, it had instances, no equipment, no raiding. The G.P.U would hate this game. Sorry it's not WoW.