They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
And if no Mythic devs or employees, nevermind the head of the company, ever visited fansites you'd say "they don't care about the customers. They don't have official forums, hell, they don't even care about the fansites!" Your argument is conflicting. And no one has to visit the fansites. I'm a fan and I've visited WHA maybe three times.
So are you saying that because one has a different opinion, which is fine, Mythic can't defend their choices? Huh? Isn't that a little unfair? You get pissed at Mythic for explaining and defending their process but the admin of a fansite can blame Mythic for trying to trick the public and you're A-OK with it.
Try again.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The only people who think MJ lowered himself are those with conflicting interest. He didn't attack Browncoat like Browncoat attacked Mythic by calling them tricksters(aka Funcom, Sigil, D&L devs). In fact, he said he was replying because of Mythic's relationship with WHA. Was he firm? Yes. Did he have an attitude? Sure did. I found it profession, though. Being professional isn't always nodding your head yes while taking it up the bum. Those of you who think that are wrong.
MJ was probably surprised that a fan website admin didn't know how the MMO industry works. No game has ever given away everything before launch or at the least NDA. Sometimes you have to be firm, and that's what MJ did.
And if no Mythic devs or employees, nevermind the head of the company, ever visited fansites you'd say "they don't care about the customers. They don't have official forums, hell, they don't even care about the fansites!" Your argument is conflicting. And no one has to visit the fansites. I'm a fan and I've visited WHA maybe three times. So are you saying that because one has a different opinion, which is fine, Mythic can't defend their choices? Huh? Isn't that a little unfair? You get pissed at Mythic for explaining and defending their process but the admin of a fansite can blame Mythic for trying to trick the public and you're A-OK with it. Try again.
My argument isn't conflicting, just an FYI. I think the lack of official forum is a terrible sign, always have.
I'm not so happy with Mythic for reasons well beyond that one (latest) comment from MJ or whatever his name is. I think there is a lot more to that post by Browncoat than is merely typed.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
The only people who think MJ lowered himself are those with conflicting interest. He didn't attack Browncoat like Browncoat attacked Mythic by calling them tricksters(aka Funcom, Sigil, D&L devs). In fact, he said he was replying because of Mythic's relationship with WHA. Was he firm? Yes. Did he have an attitude? Sure did. I found it profession, though. Being professional isn't always nodding your head yes while taking it up the bum. Those of you who think that are wrong. MJ was probably surprised that a fan website admin didn't know how the MMO industry works. No game has ever given away everything before launch or at the least NDA. Sometimes you have to be firm, and that's what MJ did.
MJ lowered himself several notches before, fairly consistently too, if I recall correctly. It wasn't professional. The relationship WHA has with the company itself is an odd one, period. I don't think that's an MMO industry thing either.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
And if no Mythic devs or employees, nevermind the head of the company, ever visited fansites you'd say "they don't care about the customers. They don't have official forums, hell, they don't even care about the fansites!" Your argument is conflicting. And no one has to visit the fansites. I'm a fan and I've visited WHA maybe three times.
So are you saying that because one has a different opinion, which is fine, Mythic can't defend their choices? Huh? Isn't that a little unfair? You get pissed at Mythic for explaining and defending their process but the admin of a fansite can blame Mythic for trying to trick the public and you're A-OK with it.
Try again.
what i find funny about this whole arguement is that, people are nit picking mythic who has been generaly better at giving info then other companies, but yet there is still this "OMG THEY PLAY TRICKS". this is what i dont understand, now you get more then usualy and they still bitch and go as far as calling them AOC, i didnt see AOC give this much info, or many other games.
And yes i agree with who i quoted, i know if they didnt say anything it would be "they dont care" the feeling we got in WOW with certain classes (like shamans back in the day)
As for the lack of official forums, have you seen AOC or WOW forums? full of so much crap,keyloggers,spam,trolls its very hard to find info if ya wanted to. Only thing thats good is relm forums i can see helpfull
as for the lack of being a professional i think its kinda refreshing, rather then being some txt or that guy who made the game, it gives you a more down to earth feel with the company, yes these are people, not drones. i mean paul is a great example.
Kudos for sticking to your guns and doing the right thing instead of the easy thing. From everything I've seen so far it looks like Mythic is going to take the time to put out a polished product, even if that means making the fans wait a little longer.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Someone was trolling for attention ,and Mark Jacobs put them in there place. I do understand people are getting impatient, and with the AoC fiasco (promises and lies) I don't blame them. We don't have long and the game will launch (wish I could say more but NDA is holding my tongue), and all truth will out. I can say that I don't think the fans will be disappointed at all.
The only people who think MJ lowered himself are those with conflicting interest. He didn't attack Browncoat like Browncoat attacked Mythic by calling them tricksters(aka Funcom, Sigil, D&L devs). In fact, he said he was replying because of Mythic's relationship with WHA. Was he firm? Yes. Did he have an attitude? Sure did. I found it profession, though. Being professional isn't always nodding your head yes while taking it up the bum. Those of you who think that are wrong. MJ was probably surprised that a fan website admin didn't know how the MMO industry works. No game has ever given away everything before launch or at the least NDA. Sometimes you have to be firm, and that's what MJ did.
MJ lowered himself several notches before, fairly consistently too, if I recall correctly. It wasn't professional. The relationship WHA has with the company itself is an odd one, period. I don't think that's an MMO industry thing either.
How long ago are we talking about? Because now he is fairly calm with what he says. I just want to remind everyone that it is a privelege that Devs and CMs and what not actually go to that site. Mythinc really doesn't -have- to do what they do for WHA. Mark has been nothing but proffesional from what I've seen
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
And some of the Devs actually read the fansite forums and actually post on them. If they want defend their game on forums they reading and posting on to begin with they can. Its not freaking out when devs defend something they are working and in their eyes in totally wrong.
Like I said earlier in the thread, only the AoC/WoW fanboys and trolls are coming up with these weak arguments why Mark Jacobs was supposedly in the wrong. It's got the stench of desperation, imho. The fact that most people on this board (by a 9-to-1 margin) think that Mark Jacobs was professional and in the right speaks volumes.
I never understood why trolls feel the need to hang out on a board of a game that they hate (before it has even come out). It's almost like they're afraid people will actually like this game and it will ultimately dominate whatever their game of preference happens to be.
I am fan of WAR but I don't agree what Mark did. I must say.. I trust and respect EA/Mythic, Mark, Paul, Josh, Jeff or any another mebmer of this company with every inch of my body but this is where I can't just blindy say "lol pwned and it's great"..
Browncoat just voiced opinion of majority...It's pretty normal that peopla act like "I want to know everything and I want it NOW!!".. Had Browncoat right to write this? Of course.. He had.. Maybe many people won't agree with him.. but it was his right. He didn't blame anyone.. He just said what He and majority thinks. But had Mark right to defend his team? Yes.. and what about asking for excuse?? HELL No! This is where Mark failed so hard.. Ok.. he wrote nice defending post and cleared some things for many people, but what he wrote in the last paragraph is from my point of view unaceptable.
I am member of WHA for pretty long time (since Feb 2007)..this fansite is not perfect of course.. I even got infraction for "unkown" reason but still it's best WAR fanstie and thanks to admins/mod it has very good community.. Better than any another un/official MMO forum... and no matter what happend, i still think that staff of WHA is great and I will still respect Mark as much as I can.
Originally posted by Capn23 How long ago are we talking about? Because now he is fairly calm with what he says. I just want to remind everyone that it is a privelege that Devs and CMs and what not actually go to that site. Mythinc really doesn't -have- to do what they do for WHA. Mark has been nothing but proffesional from what I've seen
Just a couple of months ago. From what I saw, nothing was professional. Mythic do what they do for the website because they use it for their own agenda IMO. I believe half the people there work for EA/Mythic. At least. It seems that they use the hell out of WHA, but like to pretend that they are doing WHA a favor by gracing it with 'official' presence.
WHA is the official unofficial forum and everything I imagined it would be. Its almost as bad as the alliwantforxmasisapsp.com site.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
I agree, this is exactly what he should have done.
But I can't understand his anger, no. If he was sure about what they are doing, he wouldn't react like that, he would try to understand the other person and give the best possible answer to calm things down. Not acting like he had been hurt. How can they hurt him? He "is" Mythic FFS!
They are not going to create official forums. They send us to fansites. And when fansites get a mind of their own, they freak out. Sorry Mythic, you can't have it all!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
I agree, this is exactly what he should have done.
But I can't understand his anger, no. If he was sure about what they are doing, he wouldn't react like that, he would try to understand the other person and give the best possible answer to calm things down. Not acting like he had been hurt. How can they hurt him? He "is" Mythic FFS!
you can be as sure as you want and still feel defensive. im sure there are plenty of times you still believed you where doing the right thing or w/e and still felt the need to defend your actions from someone saying you are wrong. Especially if you have grown attached to something.
On a side note, you arnt him, you are trying to grasp the idea by comparing what you would do in that situation. You will 99.9% act different then him in this situation because you arnt him, even if its slightly different.
Well Turncoat or whatever the hell his name is, should stick to his lego toys and sweeties and leave game discussion to the big boys and girls. He acted like a 10 year old and probably is, now send him to bed with no supper it's past his bedtime!
Wow, I used to be an avid poster on both this, and wha. As well as an occasional poster on numerous other fansites. I took a break from all forums and game news for a long while, but occasionally read topics and what not.
There is no law that defines the client/business relationship and the interactions between the two. Mark Jacobs, and if your going to post constructive/unconstructive posts about him, at least know what his intials stand for, is human. As are we all. I see nothing wrong at all with a man defending his work, wether in the right or wrong. In this instance Jacobs clarifed, albiet hotly, the situation to browncoat. I dont not think that a single vistitor to these forums can deny that Mythic Entertainment is very close to thier community when it comes to the release of information, more so with most, if any game of the past.
I've played other mmos in the past, but WoW was the only one I followed through the entire development phase, and I can say that the information shared wasn't even close to that of what WAR sends out to the public. I believe people were spoiled by Mythic in the fact that every time we see a dry spell of information something wrong must have gone wrong. No company that I can recall that have ever released a game gave all the information out before release. Mythic will be the same way.
Another thing that just plain rides me is when someone mentions the fanboisim in a particular forum.DUH? Even a man who can see two sides to everything will favor his particular game and forum. We are all entitled to our opinions, even negative ones, but do not come here and say that the fanboisim is so strong that reason is not present. If your not expecting a rational augument, don't post at all.
I despise any talk about an official/unofficial forums. Wether or not Mythic has one has never effected thier developement on the game. Thier relationship with the communities are close. I am peeved by the fact that a poster shows the belief, wether actual or not, that a majority of the members of Mythic belong to WHA. Say if half of WHA membership were employees of Mythic then the number would tally to 13,615. Half, even a quarter of that number is large. I for one am impressed by the orginization and the information passed through these fansites even if I myself do not use them.
I believe that the client is more important than the company in the sense that if the consumer did not buy, then the company does not exist. But when consumers make assumptions about the inner working of a company, then they should be put in thier place. Looking back in game history, there are few developers that supply fans with a steady stream of information. Even if the information seems sometimes trivial, it has been more than many companies do.
Another thing that just plain rides me is when someone mentions the fanboisim in a particular forum.DUH?
If you are responding to me, then you need to say so. I wasn't talking about mere fanatical behavior.
I am peeved by the fact that a poster shows the belief, wether actual or not, that a majority of the members of Mythic belong to WHA. Say if half of WHA membership were employees of Mythic then the number would tally to 13,615. Half, even a quarter of that number is large.
You are "peeved" by my belief because you are not using your common sense and logic Shaman64. Lurkers and people whom come and go need not apply, I was very clearly referring to the posters.
But when consumers make assumptions about the inner working of a company, then they should be put in thier place.
I beg your pardon?
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Another thing that just plain rides me is when someone mentions the fanboisim in a particular forum.DUH?
If you are responding to me, then you need to say so. I wasn't talking about mere fanatical behavior.
I am peeved by the fact that a poster shows the belief, wether actual or not, that a majority of the members of Mythic belong to WHA. Say if half of WHA membership were employees of Mythic then the number would tally to 13,615. Half, even a quarter of that number is large.
You are "peeved" by my belief because you are not using your common sense and logic Shaman64. Lurkers and people whom come and go need not apply, I was very clearly referring to the posters.
But when consumers make assumptions about the inner working of a company, then they should be put in thier place.
I beg your pardon?
Gaz, I would not write a reply around three paragraphs in length as a rebutal to one post. No, my reply encompasses this topic as a whole. The fanboisism remark was in regards to the comment made where a poster stated that the fanboisism here was so thick you can cut a knife with it. While this remark clearly doesn't come off as negative, it did remind of other posts on this thread where "trolls" regarded the people here has fanboys and they would defend thier game no matter the case. The comment is silly due to the fact that you cannot go to a forum centered around one topic, in this case warhammer, and expect people to be totally on your side when your blatantly trying to bash it into pieces verbally. This does not portain to anyone in this thread of discussion however.
I did refer to you in my reply when it came to the WHA forums hosting a large membership to Mythic employees. The reason I did not specifically include your name was out of pure lazyness and the fact that I'm sure most posters know when they are addressed, even if not specifically, when another posts a reply concerning something they had posted. I may be having a little difficulty in understanding at where you are coming at. If I understood you correctly you made the assumption that a large majority of regular and longtime poster are probally Mythic employees and due to thier presence many topics are often biased in fair favor of the game. While many things are possible, this among them. The number of persons employed at Mythic was 170+ in 2006, during the early development stages of WAR. Take into the account of increased persons needed to work on a new game, EAs absorbtion of Mythic, cuts, rearrangments, and new hirements. There are reasonably around 210 maybe 220 working at Mythic, and that includes everyone in the building not developers and artists. A quarter of WHA membership base exceeds that number easily. So , if the game ever took a change for the worse, or maybe, months ago Mythic broke many of thier promises and let numerous fan's down. A large number of Mythic employees posting regulary as regular posters couldn't swing the view of thousands of unhappy fans posting negative remarks about the game.
Also, there are numerous other fan sites, fansites of different nationalities even. Were taking into account, one of the largest fan sites in the US. Does anyone even know for a fact that WHA has the largest membership in US? There are tens of thousands of fans and potential fans who are not even registered on forums, or visit other sites for thier information. Hypothetically, if Mythic was a nasty little bugger and did use many of its employees to write postive posts about the game on WHA, there are the other numerous fansites and forums to take into account. In favor of Mythic, Mark and many other employees are known to talk and answer questions on even the most of obscure fansites occasionally.
Even if the posters are being led on by Mythic, and Mythic was an evil puppeteer. It wouldn't make one bit of difference. The internet is a much bigger place than Mythic.
As too the last phrase I was quoted on. There have been many times when accusations were brought against a company, wether it be entertainment,pharmaceutical,ect. Sometimes these accusations are of a serious matter and the company faces serious financial disaster. Other times they are false. While this doesn't compare to browncoats comment about the" evil marketing people." in terms of scope and scale. The point I am trying to write is that one shouldn't make assumptions about the inner workings of a company. Browncoat clearly is angered by the recent stop of information that has come from Mythic. Hes worried that a game he has been anticipating is so close to release, yet Mythic has yet to reveal half of the supposed features involved or shown them in dept. Some of these include mounts, talism making, alchemy, information given on classes such as the Kofbs, and White Lions. He blames marketing. What brown coat fails to see is that the summer season is a hot month for developers with events like E3. Mythic may have pivital game elements they wish to show off at these events where they would garner more publicity, a wise choice. Browncoat, who I'm sure has past mmo experiences, forgets, as I have previosly said, that Mythic has been more open to the community than most developers, and has released a steady stream of information.
As I have also said, I cannot remember a developer who has release most of the information about the game prior to release. Like I said people are entitlted to thier opinion, but I believe a blog was a better choice, rather than a main article on a fansite. Moderators represent the online communities and need to set a presedent. Browncoats accusations toward Mythic seemed unfounded and childish. Even if I disapproved of Mythic I would still favor Mark at the moment due to the fact that he came out replied for us to wait for the following months to pass us by. If what he had said didn't come to pass then everyone would know he was a lier. Hell I would have a great amount of respect for Browncoat if he agreed to write an apology for his accusations if what Mark Jacobs said had come to pass.
1. WAR is the most "open" mmo to date. The thing is, people see the past years of announcements and see the few remaining mysteries and be like "why they be holding us back!". Is it justifiable? perhaps, but it is still baseless.
2. Mythic has "plants" to keep things going their way. All i have to say is, get out your tinfoil hats everyone, the alien mind control rays can't affect you that way!
3. What tricks? What is mythic trying to pull a sheet over our eyes about? The few classes without public info? The biggest/coolest/most important feature? Seriously, we all want the info, but does that mean turncoat has a leg to stand on in the arguement? no
Comments
Is Browncoat 12 years old? Has he never seen a MMO release? I'd take his position away.
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
And if no Mythic devs or employees, nevermind the head of the company, ever visited fansites you'd say "they don't care about the customers. They don't have official forums, hell, they don't even care about the fansites!" Your argument is conflicting. And no one has to visit the fansites. I'm a fan and I've visited WHA maybe three times.
So are you saying that because one has a different opinion, which is fine, Mythic can't defend their choices? Huh? Isn't that a little unfair? You get pissed at Mythic for explaining and defending their process but the admin of a fansite can blame Mythic for trying to trick the public and you're A-OK with it.
Try again.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The only people who think MJ lowered himself are those with conflicting interest. He didn't attack Browncoat like Browncoat attacked Mythic by calling them tricksters(aka Funcom, Sigil, D&L devs). In fact, he said he was replying because of Mythic's relationship with WHA. Was he firm? Yes. Did he have an attitude? Sure did. I found it profession, though. Being professional isn't always nodding your head yes while taking it up the bum. Those of you who think that are wrong.
MJ was probably surprised that a fan website admin didn't know how the MMO industry works. No game has ever given away everything before launch or at the least NDA. Sometimes you have to be firm, and that's what MJ did.
My argument isn't conflicting, just an FYI. I think the lack of official forum is a terrible sign, always have.
I'm not so happy with Mythic for reasons well beyond that one (latest) comment from MJ or whatever his name is. I think there is a lot more to that post by Browncoat than is merely typed.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
MJ lowered himself several notches before, fairly consistently too, if I recall correctly. It wasn't professional. The relationship WHA has with the company itself is an odd one, period. I don't think that's an MMO industry thing either.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
And if no Mythic devs or employees, nevermind the head of the company, ever visited fansites you'd say "they don't care about the customers. They don't have official forums, hell, they don't even care about the fansites!" Your argument is conflicting. And no one has to visit the fansites. I'm a fan and I've visited WHA maybe three times.
So are you saying that because one has a different opinion, which is fine, Mythic can't defend their choices? Huh? Isn't that a little unfair? You get pissed at Mythic for explaining and defending their process but the admin of a fansite can blame Mythic for trying to trick the public and you're A-OK with it.
Try again.
what i find funny about this whole arguement is that, people are nit picking mythic who has been generaly better at giving info then other companies, but yet there is still this "OMG THEY PLAY TRICKS". this is what i dont understand, now you get more then usualy and they still bitch and go as far as calling them AOC, i didnt see AOC give this much info, or many other games.
And yes i agree with who i quoted, i know if they didnt say anything it would be "they dont care" the feeling we got in WOW with certain classes (like shamans back in the day)
As for the lack of official forums, have you seen AOC or WOW forums? full of so much crap,keyloggers,spam,trolls its very hard to find info if ya wanted to. Only thing thats good is relm forums i can see helpfull
as for the lack of being a professional i think its kinda refreshing, rather then being some txt or that guy who made the game, it gives you a more down to earth feel with the company, yes these are people, not drones. i mean paul is a great example.
just play the game and have fun.
Kudos for sticking to your guns and doing the right thing instead of the easy thing. From everything I've seen so far it looks like Mythic is going to take the time to put out a polished product, even if that means making the fans wait a little longer.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Someone was trolling for attention ,and Mark Jacobs put them in there place
. I do understand people are getting impatient, and with the AoC fiasco (promises and lies) I don't blame them. We don't have long and the game will launch (wish I could say more but NDA is holding my tongue), and all truth will out. I can say that I don't think the fans will be disappointed at all.
MJ lowered himself several notches before, fairly consistently too, if I recall correctly. It wasn't professional. The relationship WHA has with the company itself is an odd one, period. I don't think that's an MMO industry thing either.
How long ago are we talking about? Because now he is fairly calm with what he says. I just want to remind everyone that it is a privelege that Devs and CMs and what not actually go to that site. Mythinc really doesn't -have- to do what they do for WHA. Mark has been nothing but proffesional from what I've seen
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
And some of the Devs actually read the fansite forums and actually post on them. If they want defend their game on forums they reading and posting on to begin with they can. Its not freaking out when devs defend something they are working and in their eyes in totally wrong.
Like I said earlier in the thread, only the AoC/WoW fanboys and trolls are coming up with these weak arguments why Mark Jacobs was supposedly in the wrong. It's got the stench of desperation, imho. The fact that most people on this board (by a 9-to-1 margin) think that Mark Jacobs was professional and in the right speaks volumes.
I never understood why trolls feel the need to hang out on a board of a game that they hate (before it has even come out). It's almost like they're afraid people will actually like this game and it will ultimately dominate whatever their game of preference happens to be.
http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/107872264/p1
A lot of interesting view points here.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
browncoat from the bottom of my hart i can tell you that you "just got shat o'pon" and that you needed every bit of it... mark you are the man
your not a sword
I am fan of WAR but I don't agree what Mark did. I must say.. I trust and respect EA/Mythic, Mark, Paul, Josh, Jeff or any another mebmer of this company with every inch of my body but this is where I can't just blindy say "lol pwned and it's great"..
Browncoat just voiced opinion of majority...It's pretty normal that peopla act like "I want to know everything and I want it NOW!!".. Had Browncoat right to write this? Of course.. He had.. Maybe many people won't agree with him.. but it was his right. He didn't blame anyone.. He just said what He and majority thinks. But had Mark right to defend his team? Yes.. and what about asking for excuse?? HELL No! This is where Mark failed so hard.. Ok.. he wrote nice defending post and cleared some things for many people, but what he wrote in the last paragraph is from my point of view unaceptable.
I am member of WHA for pretty long time (since Feb 2007)..this fansite is not perfect of course.. I even got infraction for "unkown" reason but still it's best WAR fanstie and thanks to admins/mod it has very good community.. Better than any another un/official MMO forum... and no matter what happend, i still think that staff of WHA is great and I will still respect Mark as much as I can.
Just a couple of months ago. From what I saw, nothing was professional. Mythic do what they do for the website because they use it for their own agenda IMO. I believe half the people there work for EA/Mythic. At least. It seems that they use the hell out of WHA, but like to pretend that they are doing WHA a favor by gracing it with 'official' presence.
WHA is the official unofficial forum and everything I imagined it would be. Its almost as bad as the alliwantforxmasisapsp.com site.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
I agree, this is exactly what he should have done.
But I can't understand his anger, no. If he was sure about what they are doing, he wouldn't react like that, he would try to understand the other person and give the best possible answer to calm things down. Not acting like he had been hurt. How can they hurt him? He "is" Mythic FFS!
Please. That's just dumb. Fansites will exist with or without official forums. WoW has official forums and there are plenty of WoW fansites out there with "minds of their own" and all. That's no excuse for admins of those fansites to act like jack asses. Your desperation to find ways to disparage Mythic is pretty pathetic.
Your answer is dumb. It's true that fansites will exist with or eithout official forums, but that's not the point, the point is that they send us to the fansites, thinking that they will be an extension of Mythic, a bunch of fanbois kissing Mythic's ass.
But it seems that at least one has a mind of its own, they are not Mythic and they speak their voice, and now Mythic feels like that they don't have that right... But they do, it's Mythic that don't have the right to be pissed off.
The only thing they did is to show how weak they are, lowering themselves at the same level as the administrator of a fansite.
Truthfully I don't think either of them are in the right. Browncoat was wrong to attack Mythic like he did. Mark was wrong to losing his cool like he did. Fanboi or no fanboi...you don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get everything you want. Mark should have just said "Hey, we are really working hard on getting guild beta up and running. If we gave you all the information now, what would we have later to grab your attention? We want to keep things as exciting as we can all the way up to launch so that people don't just get bored and give up. I promise that there will be much more information by the end of August. Just have a little patience and trust us. Everything will come out in good time". I can understand his anger though. And as for the forums...I'm -extremely- happy that they are letting it up to other sites. Less QQ and more pewpew IMO. I think Mythic needs to politely remove WHA off of their website, but that's just me.
I agree, this is exactly what he should have done.
But I can't understand his anger, no. If he was sure about what they are doing, he wouldn't react like that, he would try to understand the other person and give the best possible answer to calm things down. Not acting like he had been hurt. How can they hurt him? He "is" Mythic FFS!
you can be as sure as you want and still feel defensive. im sure there are plenty of times you still believed you where doing the right thing or w/e and still felt the need to defend your actions from someone saying you are wrong. Especially if you have grown attached to something.
On a side note, you arnt him, you are trying to grasp the idea by comparing what you would do in that situation. You will 99.9% act different then him in this situation because you arnt him, even if its slightly different.
First. I believe mythic is marketing their MMO's features with honesty.
Second. This whole damn post/response thing was scripted as hell.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Well Turncoat or whatever the hell his name is, should stick to his lego toys and sweeties and leave game discussion to the big boys and girls. He acted like a 10 year old and probably is, now send him to bed with no supper it's past his bedtime!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Wow, I used to be an avid poster on both this, and wha. As well as an occasional poster on numerous other fansites. I took a break from all forums and game news for a long while, but occasionally read topics and what not.
There is no law that defines the client/business relationship and the interactions between the two. Mark Jacobs, and if your going to post constructive/unconstructive posts about him, at least know what his intials stand for, is human. As are we all. I see nothing wrong at all with a man defending his work, wether in the right or wrong. In this instance Jacobs clarifed, albiet hotly, the situation to browncoat. I dont not think that a single vistitor to these forums can deny that Mythic Entertainment is very close to thier community when it comes to the release of information, more so with most, if any game of the past.
I've played other mmos in the past, but WoW was the only one I followed through the entire development phase, and I can say that the information shared wasn't even close to that of what WAR sends out to the public. I believe people were spoiled by Mythic in the fact that every time we see a dry spell of information something wrong must have gone wrong. No company that I can recall that have ever released a game gave all the information out before release. Mythic will be the same way.
Another thing that just plain rides me is when someone mentions the fanboisim in a particular forum.DUH? Even a man who can see two sides to everything will favor his particular game and forum. We are all entitled to our opinions, even negative ones, but do not come here and say that the fanboisim is so strong that reason is not present. If your not expecting a rational augument, don't post at all.
I despise any talk about an official/unofficial forums. Wether or not Mythic has one has never effected thier developement on the game. Thier relationship with the communities are close. I am peeved by the fact that a poster shows the belief, wether actual or not, that a majority of the members of Mythic belong to WHA. Say if half of WHA membership were employees of Mythic then the number would tally to 13,615. Half, even a quarter of that number is large. I for one am impressed by the orginization and the information passed through these fansites even if I myself do not use them.
I believe that the client is more important than the company in the sense that if the consumer did not buy, then the company does not exist. But when consumers make assumptions about the inner working of a company, then they should be put in thier place. Looking back in game history, there are few developers that supply fans with a steady stream of information. Even if the information seems sometimes trivial, it has been more than many companies do.
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Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
You are "peeved" by my belief because you are not using your common sense and logic Shaman64. Lurkers and people whom come and go need not apply, I was very clearly referring to the posters.
I beg your pardon?Gaz, I would not write a reply around three paragraphs in length as a rebutal to one post. No, my reply encompasses this topic as a whole. The fanboisism remark was in regards to the comment made where a poster stated that the fanboisism here was so thick you can cut a knife with it. While this remark clearly doesn't come off as negative, it did remind of other posts on this thread where "trolls" regarded the people here has fanboys and they would defend thier game no matter the case. The comment is silly due to the fact that you cannot go to a forum centered around one topic, in this case warhammer, and expect people to be totally on your side when your blatantly trying to bash it into pieces verbally. This does not portain to anyone in this thread of discussion however.
I did refer to you in my reply when it came to the WHA forums hosting a large membership to Mythic employees. The reason I did not specifically include your name was out of pure lazyness and the fact that I'm sure most posters know when they are addressed, even if not specifically, when another posts a reply concerning something they had posted. I may be having a little difficulty in understanding at where you are coming at. If I understood you correctly you made the assumption that a large majority of regular and longtime poster are probally Mythic employees and due to thier presence many topics are often biased in fair favor of the game. While many things are possible, this among them. The number of persons employed at Mythic was 170+ in 2006, during the early development stages of WAR. Take into the account of increased persons needed to work on a new game, EAs absorbtion of Mythic, cuts, rearrangments, and new hirements. There are reasonably around 210 maybe 220 working at Mythic, and that includes everyone in the building not developers and artists. A quarter of WHA membership base exceeds that number easily. So , if the game ever took a change for the worse, or maybe, months ago Mythic broke many of thier promises and let numerous fan's down. A large number of Mythic employees posting regulary as regular posters couldn't swing the view of thousands of unhappy fans posting negative remarks about the game.
Also, there are numerous other fan sites, fansites of different nationalities even. Were taking into account, one of the largest fan sites in the US. Does anyone even know for a fact that WHA has the largest membership in US? There are tens of thousands of fans and potential fans who are not even registered on forums, or visit other sites for thier information. Hypothetically, if Mythic was a nasty little bugger and did use many of its employees to write postive posts about the game on WHA, there are the other numerous fansites and forums to take into account. In favor of Mythic, Mark and many other employees are known to talk and answer questions on even the most of obscure fansites occasionally.
Even if the posters are being led on by Mythic, and Mythic was an evil puppeteer. It wouldn't make one bit of difference. The internet is a much bigger place than Mythic.
As too the last phrase I was quoted on. There have been many times when accusations were brought against a company, wether it be entertainment,pharmaceutical,ect. Sometimes these accusations are of a serious matter and the company faces serious financial disaster. Other times they are false. While this doesn't compare to browncoats comment about the" evil marketing people." in terms of scope and scale. The point I am trying to write is that one shouldn't make assumptions about the inner workings of a company. Browncoat clearly is angered by the recent stop of information that has come from Mythic. Hes worried that a game he has been anticipating is so close to release, yet Mythic has yet to reveal half of the supposed features involved or shown them in dept. Some of these include mounts, talism making, alchemy, information given on classes such as the Kofbs, and White Lions. He blames marketing. What brown coat fails to see is that the summer season is a hot month for developers with events like E3. Mythic may have pivital game elements they wish to show off at these events where they would garner more publicity, a wise choice. Browncoat, who I'm sure has past mmo experiences, forgets, as I have previosly said, that Mythic has been more open to the community than most developers, and has released a steady stream of information.
As I have also said, I cannot remember a developer who has release most of the information about the game prior to release. Like I said people are entitlted to thier opinion, but I believe a blog was a better choice, rather than a main article on a fansite. Moderators represent the online communities and need to set a presedent. Browncoats accusations toward Mythic seemed unfounded and childish. Even if I disapproved of Mythic I would still favor Mark at the moment due to the fact that he came out replied for us to wait for the following months to pass us by. If what he had said didn't come to pass then everyone would know he was a lier. Hell I would have a great amount of respect for Browncoat if he agreed to write an apology for his accusations if what Mark Jacobs said had come to pass.
Some silly things i read in this topic.
What i thought of when reading this.
1. WAR is the most "open" mmo to date. The thing is, people see the past years of announcements and see the few remaining mysteries and be like "why they be holding us back!". Is it justifiable? perhaps, but it is still baseless.
2. Mythic has "plants" to keep things going their way. All i have to say is, get out your tinfoil hats everyone, the alien mind control rays can't affect you that way!
3. What tricks? What is mythic trying to pull a sheet over our eyes about? The few classes without public info? The biggest/coolest/most important feature? Seriously, we all want the info, but does that mean turncoat has a leg to stand on in the arguement? no
I lost a lot of respect for Browncoat when he posted that.