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Why no real PvP in this game?
Yamota
Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth?
It seems so obvious...
Comments
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
The developers decided to have no open world PVP because they thought it wouldn't make fit in with the Lore.
I totally disagree (there are plenty different forms of open world PVP that would not contradict the lore), but there you have it.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Lore lore lore... that's what limits this game from it's full potential. Even though most players wouldnt agree.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
I have no idea why lore is such a big deal. This is a game were my shitty champion can kill legolas no problem, can walk from bree to rivendell in 5-10 minutes, and can turn into a chicken.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Why do all mmos have to have pvp?
This is a game I play to get away from kids running around looking to gank people who are 20 levels below them. /golfclap
You want pvp? Go to the Ettenmoors and have at it. In Middle-earth the War of the Ring only raged in a handful of areas.
I think what gives Lotro so much of its appeal right now is its cut down pvp like it has. The player base is levels above just about any other mmo out there right now.
When you visit the forums you do not have to wade through hundreds of doom and gloom posts or I quit posts. You can easily find lots of good information there.
With the pvp the way it is, it fits right into the lore and also lets the developers focus on the PVE side of the game without having to worry about if a change will imbalance the pvp or not. They also do not have to juggle between adding PVE content or PVP content. Everything for the most part is focused on PVE and it really shows in the quality and amount of content they freely add into the game every 2-3 months.
Let's look at how the lore is set up. We know tons about how the good side lives. the towns and areas they call home. We know that they have a social structure that is explained in the books.
What do we really know about the evil races in the books. Other than they are the slaves of sauron or saruman. They have no real social structure they basically live like animals in caves. So they have no major cities or towns to say for the devs to use in implementing them.
What is obvious to you isn't necesarily the right thing for this game. True there is the conflict of good and evil that is a driving force for the fellowship to destroy the ring but that is just that a driving force. The books are about so much more than the war for the ring. It is about knocking down barriers between the free races that have kept them at odds with each other. About forging friendships with those you would otherwise aviod.
There is so much more to the books than war. At times i wish the trilogy would of been named something other than the war of the ring. It seems people see that name for the trilogy and assume that is all the books are about.
So no it is not to alot of people the most perfect or obvious setting for a PVP game.
To have factional warfare in a MMO you need 2 equal sides fighting... there is nothing in the books to support an Evil faction since the evil side are just mindless evil slaves who follow Saurons orders... If you want to PvP roll a monster and go out and hunt some hobbits.. there is nothing stopping you..
This is not WoW... (and you cant play as the Burning legion there can you?)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
They follow the lore too much? Knew there was a reason I have never stopped playing this game.
Well you shouldnt expect a Rank 0 Creep to be as good as lvl 50 Freeps (Free people)...
When you get higher ranks your monster will become alot better and gain new skills/traits and then you will become more equal to the freep-classes
sure its not balanced and never will be... but skill actually can make a different...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Are you talking about the lore with the Giant Turtle in the tropical dungeon, or the lore about the thousands of mini-wizards running around with pet bears?
Personally, I think if they did "too much" of anything, it was trying to mirror all the typical MMO archetypes, at the expense of the lore.
But seriously, a "free" lvl50 monster is a fair match for a level 40/41 player character (staring level for the moors). And once you rank up that "free" lvl 50 monster, he'll be able to give a lvl 50 player character a run for his money.
Nothing is "Free".
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
That free monster character maybe lvl 50 but he starts with lvl one skills and you have to put some effort into getting higher lvl skills for him and ranking him up making him more powerful. So no a newly made monster shouldn't be able to take on a lvl 50 freep who has lvl'd up their character and skills until the monster player has done the same.
But again i thought that winning wasn't the important thing to the PVPers. They want to fight a living human being behind the opponent toon. So they give you that and it turns into my creep looses when i just roll him and that isn't fair cry.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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I disagree. I have been a fan of LoTR for years as well but I too share the original posters view. There could be more pvp without making it a FFA. You could add more zones so you could level monsters. Then you could add in "neutral" zones that could be conquered by one side and be taken back and fourth without messing up the LoTR Lore. Just an idea without going overboard.
Anthony
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
What I define as "real" PvP in MMORPGs is a PvP that involved the MMORPG world and has consequences in the sense that you can win or lose something related to said world. For example a castle, village or even personal items. This, will in the long run, give the sense that some party is losing or winning. I.e. no honor points or crap like that which doesnt mean something in the MMORPG sense but rather is more fitting for an FPS game.
It is funny how everyone jumps to the conclusion that with real PvP I mean ganking people people in the open. I dont think you can not have that in a MMORPG server-side conflict but that certainly is not the main aspect of it but rather a side-effect.
My gaming blog
Why would PvP be only for the "kids"? It certainly takes more intellect to beat a human opponent than an AI mobile so in that sense it would be more for adults, which are generally more intelligent than "kids".
War of the Ring only raged in handful of areas? I am not an expert of Tolkien but beside the very complex world he built up the books were basically a conflict between good and evil and that battle could happen anywhere. Of course it would be less likely for it too happen in or around Rivendell because of its secluded location and magical defenses.
What people need to realise that this is an MMORPG and not a scripted game, so in other words it should not strictly follow the story in the books but rather also be an open-ended world.
My gaming blog
Because, from what I've seen so far, open PvP always turns into a gank fest. I can see it now...Level 50's hanging around stone circles ganking people as they rez........oooh...wouldn't that be fun 0.o
Until ANY mmo comes up with a way to prevent the abuse of full PvP systems, we'll never really have a REALISTIC system.
I've seen things, you...people, wouldn't believe... . Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion... . I watched C-Beams, glitter in the darkness near the Tannhauser Gate... . All those...moments will be lost in time... . Like...tears...in the rain...
Time to die.....
Roy Batty
Blade Runner
If real pvp is world scale battle groudns, let me tell you that this is far from real pvp. Real pvp isn't one high level player bumping into a grp of low levels and I aoe hit killing them.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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A high rank Creep is pretty close to a level 50 freep in power.
There are castles to be captured in the moors, it's not just big pointless honor farming game. There are five keeps. When a side takes over an enemy keep the guards flip to their side. Once a given side controls a keep, it will remain under their control until the other side takes it back. If a given side controls all five keeps, they gain access to a special raid dungeon.
Unique abilities or armor sets can be earned by taking down bosses in the dungeon. If control of the dungeon flips while players are inside of it, they remain in the dungeon so that PvP battles within the raid dungeon are possible.
Also, playing monsters from 1-50 wouldn't male the first bit of sense with the IP. All we know about the monsters from the books are how many showed up at each major battle and what their general battle plan was (for the most part).
Warhammer or Warcraft are examples of IPs in which it does make sense to let players level up as "evil" characters, because both sides are depicted in equal detail by the pre-existing IP. LotR is not.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Please define what "real" PvP is.
If you think PvP is all about ganking in the open, then you're sorely mistaken. There are many different aspects of it, such as instanced Battlegrounds in WoW, or mini games in AoC. In LotRO, it's regulated to one zone only.
Speaking of AoC, is it "real" PvP, since the majority of their PvP servers are FFA?
What I define as "real" PvP in MMORPGs is a PvP that involved the MMORPG world and has consequences in the sense that you can win or lose something related to said world.
There is consequences in LotRO. Ratings for example. You get your first star at 1100, if i remember correctly. Everytime you die, you lose rating, which means you lose stars. You can also "win" something, called ranks, which is needed for gear.
You need to be more specific what you want as consequences, because everyone has different perspectives.
For example a castle, village or even personal items. This, will in the long run, give the sense that some party is losing or winning.
If either creeps or freeps control 3 out 5 keeps, they get to open up the Delving of Fror, which is needed to get stones for gear. Keeps are also needed for quests and infamy/reknown, to open up session play for Trolls/Rangers.
I think you're just looking for Open World PvP, but that is only one aspect of "real" PvP in MMORPGs today, and there's no way Turbine could ever do it because of the Tolkien license and contract they are under.
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
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You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?