The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Also, playing monsters from 1-50 wouldn't male the first bit of sense with the IP. All we know about the monsters from the books are how many showed up at each major battle and what their general battle plan was (for the most part). Warhammer or Warcraft are examples of IPs in which it does make sense to let players level up as "evil" characters, because both sides are depicted in equal detail by the pre-existing IP. LotR is not.
Please tell explain to me why it would not make sense in the LOTR IP. In the books and in the movies you saw evil mobs with various levels of power and they certainly would need to have a place to grwo so it certainly would not contradict having an orc going from level 1-50. Just because they are not depicted in detail does not mean you cant use your imagination and assume that orcs, urukhais and the various "evil" races in LOTR would grow in power just like an elv or a human would. Again this is an MMORPG and not a movie or a scripted RPG so you are allowed to stray from the path.
Heck if you are so adamant about following the IP then leveling an elf should not be possible since they take houndreds, if not thousands of years to develop where as a human takes about 50. So how could you possible justify having the two races level at the same pace?
Since when is World PvP no longer real PvP? It is quite ignored by the devs, but it's more or less the only decent end-game there is. And it still beats the mid-game, I have 3 times the EXACT same quest, it's even the same quest item, just other other NPC who gave it.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Nothing is logical about lotro tbh. The HUGE gaps the first books, then you can suddenly keep playing, without having to do the worst quests ever (which lotro has, no doubt).
And most of all... You have the Orc Reaver, Uruk War-Leader, no goblins though, and men of the south are set as an expansion. And you fight for Middle-Earth where lotro's lore says, at the Ettenmoors. Where there is a constant battle for 5 keeps. It's there where Angmar's forces meet the Free Peoples.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Who said anything about free people fighting each other? I personally would not think that would be against the lore either, specially if you consider the tension between the elves and the dwarves so a conflict between them certainly wouldnt be impossible.
But anyway, I was talking about the conflict between the Good and the Evil and if you feel that is not a central part of the books then you have completely missed the biggest, although not the only, major part of the trilogy.
Tolkien was a devoted christian and repeteadly said that Gandalf was like an Angel so it is not too hard to figure out that Sauron would be the equivalent of a demon of Satan and the trilogy about the epic fight between the absolute Good and the absolute Evil. Frodo would then ofcourse symbolise the regular man who, even though he is a small hobbit, can affect the above mentioned epic struggle by choosing good and not be tempted by evil (the ring).
But in other characters, such as Saruman and even Boromir you have other people who choose to fight for the other side. Both of those characters were originally good people who succumb to the power of the ring and its a shame that this MMORPG does not let you do that.
It does not let you succumb to the power of the ring and choose the dark side and by not doing so it misses a big part of the story.
Also, playing monsters from 1-50 wouldn't male the first bit of sense with the IP. All we know about the monsters from the books are how many showed up at each major battle and what their general battle plan was (for the most part). Warhammer or Warcraft are examples of IPs in which it does make sense to let players level up as "evil" characters, because both sides are depicted in equal detail by the pre-existing IP. LotR is not.
Please tell explain to me why it would not make sense in the LOTR IP. In the books and in the movies you saw evil mobs with various levels of power and they certainly would need to have a place to grwo so it certainly would not contradict having an orc going from level 1-50. Just because they are not depicted in detail does not mean you cant use your imagination and assume that orcs, urukhais and the various "evil" races in LOTR would grow in power just like an elv or a human would. Again this is an MMORPG and not a movie or a scripted RPG so you are allowed to stray from the path.
Heck if you are so adamant about following the IP then leveling an elf should not be possible since they take houndreds, if not thousands of years to develop where as a human takes about 50. So how could you possible justify having the two races level at the same pace?
What he is talking about is there are no cities or towns that the evil races have per say. They basically live like animals in dark caves. Not to say you can't have them lvl up you just don't have the resources in the source material to give them places to lvl up. We know of very few places were they actually had some kind of town or village and most of them aren't in the game yet. Goblin town is one of them and probably the closest to the playable area right now.
But if you turn goblin town into a major evil player city to give them a place like bree or rivendell to goto to sell their drops and get skills you take away a huge part of the story that they are telling by making it this way and not a PVE dungeon.
They have strayed from the path on alot of areas and only as far as tolkien enterprise will allow them to do so. From my understanding they are not allowed to totally create anything that isn't mentioned in the book in someway. The major places that evil congrogate are used for telling the story and are PVE areas. Wich is the key to this whole discussion. They can only do what tolkien enterprise allows. Regardless of what was in the movies since the movies have nothing to do with this game at all.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Who said anything about free people fighting each other? I personally would not think that would be against the lore either, specially if you consider the tension between the elves and the dwarves so a conflict between them certainly wouldnt be impossible.
But anyway, I was talking about the conflict between the Good and the Evil and if you feel that is not a central part of the books then you have completely missed the biggest, although not the only, major part of the trilogy.
Tolkien was a devoted christian and repeteadly said that Gandalf was like an Angel so it is not too hard to figure out that Sauron would be the equivalent of a demon of Satan and the trilogy about the epic fight between the absolute Good and the absolute Evil. Frodo would then ofcourse symbolise the regular man who, even though he is a small hobbit, can affect the above mentioned epic struggle by choosing good and not be tempted by evil (the ring).
But in other characters, such as Saruman and even Boromir you have other people who choose to fight for the other side. Both of those characters were originally good people who succumb to the power of the ring and its a shame that this MMORPG does not let you do that.
It does not let you succumb to the power of the ring and choose the dark side and by not doing so it misses a big part of the story.
LOL i missed nothing of the point of the books wich i have read to many times to forget over the last 25 years. Saruman was also an angle like gandalf as you put it and he fell from grace in his desire for power. Sauron was also a fallen angle who followed melkor as did those who became the balrog. Borimor was tempted by the ring and faltered but in the end realized this and let frodo go with the ring when he could of taken it from him.
I do not deny that the war of the ring is a important part of the books but it is not the most important part of the books. Tolkien himself even said it wasn't. And yes tolkien was a devoted chatholic who tried very hard to leave his religion out of his writings. That is why you do not find any kind of religion in the books at all. But like all great writers his writings are affected by his believes and his experiences. Wich leaked in.
You see the books from your point of view and that is fine. I see them from another point of view and i see a much deeper story being told than the war of the ring. I see friendships bieng tested. I see old grudges bieng set aside and people who have disliked others coming together to fight the ultimate evil as you put it. I see so much more being told by tolkien than just the war. Wich if you look at it the total amoung of time spent on the battles wich you can count on one hand in the books is a very small amount of the total writings.
Heck you can say the bible is about war cause there are battles and wars in it. Just cause a small amount of a writing deal with war doesn't meen the whole writing is about war.
What you PvPers dont realise is that Good and Evil in Lotr isnt 2 equal factions... If you want factional PvP in a MMO you need to make them equal and it would be impossible to make the sides equal beacuse the lore doenst support the bad side.... Should the monsters have an AH? should they send mail to eachother? Are they going to hang around the in and play lure? Do they get to buy a house? What kind of quest should they do?
The burning legion in WoW isnt a playable faction for the exact same reason! You cant play an evil chacracter in WoW but you can in LotrO... (just used WoW as an example no bashing or flaming intended)
The evil creatures in Lotr arent a faction! They are slaves to Sauron/Saruman and PvMP is the best solution I can thik of.. maybe you have a better idea how to solve it.. And if you thin k that the trilogy is just about war, the I thin k you should re-read it... Battle for helms deep is a couple of pages long...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
You can be Orcs, goblins, urukhais and all of that..its called Monster Play. It's real PVP, you can fight OTHER PLAYER CHARACTERS! Oh, you want orcs pouring into the shire and ganking lowbies and make the game a total pain in the ass? No thank you.
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP. That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
We do fight the good races. Every time they set foot in the moors. The only thing that LoTRO doesn't have is a 1-50 game for creeps. And I honestly fail to see how that would make the PvP game any better.
If you want to do high end PvP, you don't have to grind out 50 levels first on the creep side. You just jump right in on the class of your choice. If you don't like the first class you pick, try another. No need to grind out another 50 levels. Why would a 100+ hour questing game for creeps improve PvP?
Also on the creep side, you gain power mainly via PvP (i.e., killing human controlled opponents). And, since creep classes exist soley for PvP, they can be balanced for it without screwing up the PvE game for the freeps. I actually enjoy the PvP in LoTRO on the creep side more than I have in any MMO since DAoC.
More zones to fight over would be nice. And we are getting them in MoM. But being able to "take over the shire" would conflict directly with the events of the book. If ganking lowbies gives you a stiffy, there are plenty of other games where you can do that.
And I'll say it again: A quest based 1-50 game for the creeps wouldn't make the first bit of sense with the lore. A parallel "evil" game where you level up raping hobbits and eating elf babies would completely clash with the tone of the books. Creeps appear in the game exactly as they do in the books: fully formed and with no motivation but to kill humans, elves, hobbits, and dwarves for the glory of Sauran. This is not Warhammer or Warcraft. Save that they are utterly and irredeemably evil, we know next to nothing of Suaron's minions from the existing fiction.
LoTRO does have "real" PvP. It just doesn't have all the features that you would like. I personally believe that even if those features were added, it would actually make the game worse by distancing it from the tone and events of the books.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
Personally , I just did not get the feeling Turbine wanted a 1v1 type o game i ally vs horde. Seems they have a book, and are going to follow it like a reader.
because for some strange reason they chose to take a game world which is totally based on War and make it into a PvE grab ass fest.
They could have just made the orcs AI or even developer comtrolled then that way they would have complete control over the Dark side. But no , forget about anything different or out of the ordinary.
No pvp have nothing to do with lore and everything to do with balancing. Balancing a class for both pvp and pve is a bloddy nightmare. Even with a juggernaut like blizzard with nearly unlimited rescourse still can't get the balance just right.
"There is so much more to the books than war. At times i wish the trilogy would of been named something other than the war of the ring. It seems people see that name for the trilogy and assume that is all the books are about."
Say what?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I really believe the majority of MMO gamers have to be led by the hand to learn anything new. The best MMO PVP experience is in LOTRO, of any current MMO for Orcs and Dorks.
First you can take your own character out, although do not do so until 50 unless you want eaten by monsters. If you're too impatient or bored to wait for your own character to get to 50 you can create an instant level 50 monster. Here kiddies is the key, that level 50 monster isn't as powerful as a level 50 Freep (Free player) you do indeed need to level that level 50 Creep.
This leveling isn't done in some PVE safety zone, no if you want to level that CREEP to being as powerful, or more so than a FREEP you do it in the PVP zone! This was an incredible idea by Turbine and I find it ironic the people whining about no PVP fail to realize this is indeed the best pvp system since Guild Wars was released.
I've played both sides and if you devote the time to 'leveling' you 50 Creep you are indeed more powerful than most of the Freeps. Adding more zones to PVP in would likely ruin the experience because the population wouldn't be as high in a single zone. Meaning less PVPing.
MMO gamers need to stop whining so much and use their brains, do some research, read about what is already available. The PVP in LOTRO is incredible and some of the most balanced pvp ever in an MMO.
"There is so much more to the books than war. At times i wish the trilogy would of been named something other than the war of the ring. It seems people see that name for the trilogy and assume that is all the books are about."
Say what?
I was venting. I get tired of how people state that the trilogy is about nothing but the war for the ring. When it is so much deeper than that. I know not everyone will agree with me on this but that is the bueaty of forums you can say whatever you want. And my personal believe is that another name would of been better and more suited for the books.
"There is so much more to the books than war. At times i wish the trilogy would of been named something other than the war of the ring. It seems people see that name for the trilogy and assume that is all the books are about."
Say what?
I was venting. I get tired of how people state that the trilogy is about nothing but the war for the ring. When it is so much deeper than that. I know not everyone will agree with me on this but that is the bueaty of forums you can say whatever you want. And my personal believe is that another name would of been better and more suited for the books.
I agree with you. There is so much more going on then a war. Just like in real life. World War II wasn't just about the battles but everything that led up to, during and after the war.
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
The lore is all but set for a conflict between the Good and the Evil so why dont they introduce Orcs, Urukhais, Goblins and "Men of the South" as playable evil races and let us fight for control of Middle Earth? It seems so obvious...
because ganking noobs and attacking lone players with a large group is only fun for a few - you know, players that like to gank noobs or to form large groups to prey on much smaller groups or a lone player out on his own
Comments
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Please tell explain to me why it would not make sense in the LOTR IP. In the books and in the movies you saw evil mobs with various levels of power and they certainly would need to have a place to grwo so it certainly would not contradict having an orc going from level 1-50. Just because they are not depicted in detail does not mean you cant use your imagination and assume that orcs, urukhais and the various "evil" races in LOTR would grow in power just like an elv or a human would. Again this is an MMORPG and not a movie or a scripted RPG so you are allowed to stray from the path.
Heck if you are so adamant about following the IP then leveling an elf should not be possible since they take houndreds, if not thousands of years to develop where as a human takes about 50. So how could you possible justify having the two races level at the same pace?
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Since when is World PvP no longer real PvP? It is quite ignored by the devs, but it's more or less the only decent end-game there is. And it still beats the mid-game, I have 3 times the EXACT same quest, it's even the same quest item, just other other NPC who gave it.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Nothing is logical about lotro tbh. The HUGE gaps the first books, then you can suddenly keep playing, without having to do the worst quests ever (which lotro has, no doubt).
And most of all... You have the Orc Reaver, Uruk War-Leader, no goblins though, and men of the south are set as an expansion. And you fight for Middle-Earth where lotro's lore says, at the Ettenmoors. Where there is a constant battle for 5 keeps. It's there where Angmar's forces meet the Free Peoples.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Who said anything about free people fighting each other? I personally would not think that would be against the lore either, specially if you consider the tension between the elves and the dwarves so a conflict between them certainly wouldnt be impossible.
But anyway, I was talking about the conflict between the Good and the Evil and if you feel that is not a central part of the books then you have completely missed the biggest, although not the only, major part of the trilogy.
Tolkien was a devoted christian and repeteadly said that Gandalf was like an Angel so it is not too hard to figure out that Sauron would be the equivalent of a demon of Satan and the trilogy about the epic fight between the absolute Good and the absolute Evil. Frodo would then ofcourse symbolise the regular man who, even though he is a small hobbit, can affect the above mentioned epic struggle by choosing good and not be tempted by evil (the ring).
But in other characters, such as Saruman and even Boromir you have other people who choose to fight for the other side. Both of those characters were originally good people who succumb to the power of the ring and its a shame that this MMORPG does not let you do that.
It does not let you succumb to the power of the ring and choose the dark side and by not doing so it misses a big part of the story.
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Because that is the way it is...end of story. Why does AOC suck? Because that's the way it is...end of story.
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Please tell explain to me why it would not make sense in the LOTR IP. In the books and in the movies you saw evil mobs with various levels of power and they certainly would need to have a place to grwo so it certainly would not contradict having an orc going from level 1-50. Just because they are not depicted in detail does not mean you cant use your imagination and assume that orcs, urukhais and the various "evil" races in LOTR would grow in power just like an elv or a human would. Again this is an MMORPG and not a movie or a scripted RPG so you are allowed to stray from the path.
Heck if you are so adamant about following the IP then leveling an elf should not be possible since they take houndreds, if not thousands of years to develop where as a human takes about 50. So how could you possible justify having the two races level at the same pace?
What he is talking about is there are no cities or towns that the evil races have per say. They basically live like animals in dark caves. Not to say you can't have them lvl up you just don't have the resources in the source material to give them places to lvl up. We know of very few places were they actually had some kind of town or village and most of them aren't in the game yet. Goblin town is one of them and probably the closest to the playable area right now.
But if you turn goblin town into a major evil player city to give them a place like bree or rivendell to goto to sell their drops and get skills you take away a huge part of the story that they are telling by making it this way and not a PVE dungeon.
They have strayed from the path on alot of areas and only as far as tolkien enterprise will allow them to do so. From my understanding they are not allowed to totally create anything that isn't mentioned in the book in someway. The major places that evil congrogate are used for telling the story and are PVE areas. Wich is the key to this whole discussion. They can only do what tolkien enterprise allows. Regardless of what was in the movies since the movies have nothing to do with this game at all.
That would have been a real cash cow for them but they've never said specifically why they didn't do it. I mean it's all about the war of the ring so the lore lends itself to it. Dam shame really cos I'd probably still be playing now. PvE content gets old really fast.
I have to disagree that the lore is all about the war. Tolkien even said himself that the books were about overcoming odds stacked against you and how the smallest person can do something that is considered impossible. There is so much more to the books than the war of the ring. I believe that they stated that tolkien enterprise wouldn't allow them to do a FFA PVP world were the free people PVP'd against each other. The lore didn't lend any help in createing a viable playable evil race since very little is known about them other than they are a backdrop in the book and antagonist that give a purpose to the quest. Wether you all want to admit it or not or like it or not. Tolkien enterprise has final say on any lore altering things that go into the game. Some things will slide but to have free people killing each other when they are coming together to fight the impending evil or to have the evil races doing or being in places they never were in the books won't slide with tolkien enterprise.
Maybe to you this game would of been perfect if you had your precious PVP but to alot of people it is perfect the way it is. To them PVE doesn't get boring and is fun and satisfying. I am sorry that it isn't for you and i hope you find as good of a PVP game as LOTRO is a PVE game that will satisfy your gaming needs.
Who said anything about free people fighting each other? I personally would not think that would be against the lore either, specially if you consider the tension between the elves and the dwarves so a conflict between them certainly wouldnt be impossible.
But anyway, I was talking about the conflict between the Good and the Evil and if you feel that is not a central part of the books then you have completely missed the biggest, although not the only, major part of the trilogy.
Tolkien was a devoted christian and repeteadly said that Gandalf was like an Angel so it is not too hard to figure out that Sauron would be the equivalent of a demon of Satan and the trilogy about the epic fight between the absolute Good and the absolute Evil. Frodo would then ofcourse symbolise the regular man who, even though he is a small hobbit, can affect the above mentioned epic struggle by choosing good and not be tempted by evil (the ring).
But in other characters, such as Saruman and even Boromir you have other people who choose to fight for the other side. Both of those characters were originally good people who succumb to the power of the ring and its a shame that this MMORPG does not let you do that.
It does not let you succumb to the power of the ring and choose the dark side and by not doing so it misses a big part of the story.
LOL i missed nothing of the point of the books wich i have read to many times to forget over the last 25 years. Saruman was also an angle like gandalf as you put it and he fell from grace in his desire for power. Sauron was also a fallen angle who followed melkor as did those who became the balrog. Borimor was tempted by the ring and faltered but in the end realized this and let frodo go with the ring when he could of taken it from him.
I do not deny that the war of the ring is a important part of the books but it is not the most important part of the books. Tolkien himself even said it wasn't. And yes tolkien was a devoted chatholic who tried very hard to leave his religion out of his writings. That is why you do not find any kind of religion in the books at all. But like all great writers his writings are affected by his believes and his experiences. Wich leaked in.
You see the books from your point of view and that is fine. I see them from another point of view and i see a much deeper story being told than the war of the ring. I see friendships bieng tested. I see old grudges bieng set aside and people who have disliked others coming together to fight the ultimate evil as you put it. I see so much more being told by tolkien than just the war. Wich if you look at it the total amoung of time spent on the battles wich you can count on one hand in the books is a very small amount of the total writings.
Heck you can say the bible is about war cause there are battles and wars in it. Just cause a small amount of a writing deal with war doesn't meen the whole writing is about war.
What you PvPers dont realise is that Good and Evil in Lotr isnt 2 equal factions... If you want factional PvP in a MMO you need to make them equal and it would be impossible to make the sides equal beacuse the lore doenst support the bad side.... Should the monsters have an AH? should they send mail to eachother? Are they going to hang around the in and play lure? Do they get to buy a house? What kind of quest should they do?
The burning legion in WoW isnt a playable faction for the exact same reason! You cant play an evil chacracter in WoW but you can in LotrO... (just used WoW as an example no bashing or flaming intended)
The evil creatures in Lotr arent a faction! They are slaves to Sauron/Saruman and PvMP is the best solution I can thik of.. maybe you have a better idea how to solve it.. And if you thin k that the trilogy is just about war, the I thin k you should re-read it... Battle for helms deep is a couple of pages long...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
You can be Orcs, goblins, urukhais and all of that..its called Monster Play. It's real PVP, you can fight OTHER PLAYER CHARACTERS! Oh, you want orcs pouring into the shire and ganking lowbies and make the game a total pain in the ass? No thank you.
It would have taken a LOT more development time and money to deliver a satisfying PvP experience of the sort requested by the OP.
That is the only reason, and it is a perfectly acceptable one. It's not a PvP game, and was never intended to be.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
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Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
What makes you think that the monster players in the game are AI? They are real people like you playing the monster in the moors. They are flesh and blood thinking humans like you ask to fight against. There is no AI running the monsters in the moors that you fight against. This makes your point and argument mute cause what you ask for is in the game. You just can't run around the open world and PVP. You can't lvl that monster from 1-50 but instead have to do quests and get destiny points to lvl up the monsters skills. Since the lvl 50 monster you roll starts out with lvl one skills.
Do a little research on the game before you make such wild accusations that the monster players in the game are all AI. It maybe fun to you to be a slave of sauron or saruman and to have no towns or villages and be limited to a small area of playable space to lvl up in but i am willing to bet though you say that now if they did this and limited you to the places in the books that the evil races are you would be here yelling about how unfair it is that the free people get access to the whole map and evil races are limited.
By the way alot of the pople who play MMO's and PVP are these low intelligent 10 year olds that you are talking about the AI being no smarter then.
Ahh finally a reason that makes some sense (that the lore doesnt support it I cant see at all).
I can buy that but still, would be fun to be a "slave to Saruman/Sauron" and fight the good races or even better to fight evil races who are actually real people rather than AI mobiles. I really dont see the challenge to fight a computer program that doesnt have the intelligence of a 10 year old.
We do fight the good races. Every time they set foot in the moors. The only thing that LoTRO doesn't have is a 1-50 game for creeps. And I honestly fail to see how that would make the PvP game any better.
If you want to do high end PvP, you don't have to grind out 50 levels first on the creep side. You just jump right in on the class of your choice. If you don't like the first class you pick, try another. No need to grind out another 50 levels. Why would a 100+ hour questing game for creeps improve PvP?
Also on the creep side, you gain power mainly via PvP (i.e., killing human controlled opponents). And, since creep classes exist soley for PvP, they can be balanced for it without screwing up the PvE game for the freeps. I actually enjoy the PvP in LoTRO on the creep side more than I have in any MMO since DAoC.
More zones to fight over would be nice. And we are getting them in MoM. But being able to "take over the shire" would conflict directly with the events of the book. If ganking lowbies gives you a stiffy, there are plenty of other games where you can do that.
And I'll say it again: A quest based 1-50 game for the creeps wouldn't make the first bit of sense with the lore. A parallel "evil" game where you level up raping hobbits and eating elf babies would completely clash with the tone of the books. Creeps appear in the game exactly as they do in the books: fully formed and with no motivation but to kill humans, elves, hobbits, and dwarves for the glory of Sauran. This is not Warhammer or Warcraft. Save that they are utterly and irredeemably evil, we know next to nothing of Suaron's minions from the existing fiction.
LoTRO does have "real" PvP. It just doesn't have all the features that you would like. I personally believe that even if those features were added, it would actually make the game worse by distancing it from the tone and events of the books.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Personally , I just did not get the feeling Turbine wanted a 1v1 type o game i ally vs horde. Seems they have a book, and are going to follow it like a reader.
Some people just can't get around this concept.
Because it wouldn't work in the Lord of the Rings universe without completely shooting the lore to sh**.
We can't have orcs operating on their own free will, roaming in PUGs raiding the Shire ect ect, and because it limits content for everyone.
Darkfall Travelogues!
^ pretty much sums it all. Even though I must say using your blackarrow to shoot down lil hobbits
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
"Why no real PvP in this game? "
because for some strange reason they chose to take a game world which is totally based on War and make it into a PvE grab ass fest.
They could have just made the orcs AI or even developer comtrolled then that way they would have complete control over the Dark side. But no , forget about anything different or out of the ordinary.
No pvp have nothing to do with lore and everything to do with balancing. Balancing a class for both pvp and pve is a bloddy nightmare. Even with a juggernaut like blizzard with nearly unlimited rescourse still can't get the balance just right.
"There is so much more to the books than war. At times i wish the trilogy would of been named something other than the war of the ring. It seems people see that name for the trilogy and assume that is all the books are about."
Say what?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I really believe the majority of MMO gamers have to be led by the hand to learn anything new. The best MMO PVP experience is in LOTRO, of any current MMO for Orcs and Dorks.
First you can take your own character out, although do not do so until 50 unless you want eaten by monsters. If you're too impatient or bored to wait for your own character to get to 50 you can create an instant level 50 monster. Here kiddies is the key, that level 50 monster isn't as powerful as a level 50 Freep (Free player) you do indeed need to level that level 50 Creep.
This leveling isn't done in some PVE safety zone, no if you want to level that CREEP to being as powerful, or more so than a FREEP you do it in the PVP zone! This was an incredible idea by Turbine and I find it ironic the people whining about no PVP fail to realize this is indeed the best pvp system since Guild Wars was released.
I've played both sides and if you devote the time to 'leveling' you 50 Creep you are indeed more powerful than most of the Freeps. Adding more zones to PVP in would likely ruin the experience because the population wouldn't be as high in a single zone. Meaning less PVPing.
MMO gamers need to stop whining so much and use their brains, do some research, read about what is already available. The PVP in LOTRO is incredible and some of the most balanced pvp ever in an MMO.
I was venting. I get tired of how people state that the trilogy is about nothing but the war for the ring. When it is so much deeper than that. I know not everyone will agree with me on this but that is the bueaty of forums you can say whatever you want. And my personal believe is that another name would of been better and more suited for the books.
I was venting. I get tired of how people state that the trilogy is about nothing but the war for the ring. When it is so much deeper than that. I know not everyone will agree with me on this but that is the bueaty of forums you can say whatever you want. And my personal believe is that another name would of been better and more suited for the books.
I agree with you. There is so much more going on then a war. Just like in real life. World War II wasn't just about the battles but everything that led up to, during and after the war.
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
because ganking noobs and attacking lone players with a large group is only fun for a few - you know, players that like to gank noobs or to form large groups to prey on much smaller groups or a lone player out on his own