Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
AoC sets the new game release standard...............?
VultureSkull
Member UncommonPosts: 1,774
WAR's recent announcement that they will be cutting back on content when the game releases is a step in the right direction for the consumers.
There maybe many reasons why WAR chose to announce this now:
1. They saw what happened to AoC, all the negative publicity at releasing a game with elements that were promised but not in during released.
They had planned to do the same but are now coming clean.
2.Someone has bought a law suit against FUNCOM for the state of the release, taking issue with what appears on the back of the game box and what exactly is in the game. Not wanting to be caught up with similar cases WAR announced now exactly what will be in the game at release.
3. They have cut content to polish and balance the bits that will actually release on the day, ensuring that it runs smoothly and without any major issue, again so as not release in the same way as AoC.
All in all it is a move in the right direction, for we the player base, the producers have seen that the player base will no longer put up with empty promises and buggy software at release.
And hopefully it will only get better from here on in, with producers giving a bit more respect to the paying players.
PS:
We maybe getting smaller games on release day......
but then again that's, maybe, what we would always get, let me explain:
In the case of WAR, consider for a moment that they were never gonna release 6 cities on release day, and always planned to release just 2. But after seeing the backlash from AoC they decided to come clean up front.
In contrast to this Blizzard seems only to promise what they can deliver, however small, in the up-coming expansion they have promised the impressive number of ONE hero class. However since they promised only one, no one will be disappointed on release day. And once they are sure that one is working the can gradually release more hero classes.
Comments
IMO we've already witnessed the pinnacle of a polished MMO release. LOTRO set that standard last year.
How do you know mythic was planning to release WAR without the content promised and not telling anyone? And how do you know they saw what happened to AoC and decided to come clean? Are you on the mythic board of directees or somthing
they probably realized they couldn't meet full content requirements by the deadline and decided not to be an asshole company.
Are there Bonedancers in WAR?
Be paid for Beta Testing, don't pay to Beta Test.
How do you know mythic was planning to release WAR without the content promised and not telling anyone? And how do you know they saw what happened to AoC and decided to come clean? Are you on the mythic board of directees or somthing
they probably realized they couldn't meet full content requirements by the deadline and decided not to be an asshole company.
rofl
Do you know the meaning of "MAYBE"?
But if i want to answer you the way you responded to my post (and ignoring your use to the word "probably") then i ask you if you are on the board of directees?
You know how silly your post is? Critising my post and then doing the exact same thing.
Well AoC did this to a degree anyhow, 1-20 is pretty slick, imo it's after that when things start to creak...
Of course not
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
How do you know mythic was planning to release WAR without the content promised and not telling anyone? And how do you know they saw what happened to AoC and decided to come clean? Are you on the mythic board of directees or somthing
they probably realized they couldn't meet full content requirements by the deadline and decided not to be an asshole company.
rofl
Do you know the meaning of "MAYBE"?
But if i want to answer you the way you responded to my post (and ignoring your use to the word "probably") then i ask you if you are on the board of directees?
You now how silly your post is? Critising my post and then doing the exact same thing.
lol ok because 2 games are comming out with cutted content that means its the new standard
No, I wasn't aware of this. Could you please give me a URL to where this was promised by Blizzard? I must have missed it.
Its been a long time and I don't think you'll find a link, but I remember reading a lot of speculation of how they would introduce the hero classes when WoW launched. I can't say that they had promised it, but it was well known that they had talked about adding them late in beta. Rumor was that they scrapped the idea of alpha classes because of the balance issues it caused in another game *cough*.
I remember people being bored a few months after WoW was released, and the forum community would always say.. wait for raiding to become more common, pvp rankings, battlegrounds, and hero classes.
No, I wasn't aware of this. Could you please give me a URL to where this was promised by Blizzard? I must have missed it.
Me along with many other people who followed the game from when it was announced remember Blizzard interviews and news on their forums regarding Hero Classes and siege weapons ect for World of Warcraft (minus expansions).
If you expect me to scour the web to find some old links to satisfy you then think again.
No, that's ok. I just thought it was possible that I didn't remember it correctly, cuz you know after 4 years my memory isn't always so good and sometimes what I THOUGHT someone promised turned out to be that they just actually talked about it and nothing was ever promised. I've even had 2 or 3 of my buddies before remember things exactly the way I did and then someone comes along with proof that we were wrong and we just stand there looking at it dumbfounded. Alas without some kind of evidence to the contrary we'll never really know for sure will we?
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds. But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect. I was in Beta and I don't recall anyone asking where are hero classes either. But then again, that's just what I remember. I encourage anyone to find me a Blizzard representative stating these things were to be included in the release.
How do you know mythic was planning to release WAR without the content promised and not telling anyone? And how do you know they saw what happened to AoC and decided to come clean? Are you on the mythic board of directees or somthing
they probably realized they couldn't meet full content requirements by the deadline and decided not to be an asshole company.
rofl
Do you know the meaning of "MAYBE"?
But if i want to answer you the way you responded to my post (and ignoring your use to the word "probably") then i ask you if you are on the board of directees?
You now how silly your post is? Critising my post and then doing the exact same thing.
lol ok because 2 games are comming out with cutted content that means its the new standard
Yes the 2 major releases in the western world this year thats exactly what i am saying.
Which company wants to repeat what happened to FUNCOM?
WAR doesnt want it, as they have told us exactly what we are getting on release day!
Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds. But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect. I was in Beta and I don't recall anyone asking where are hero classes either. But then again, that's just what I remember. I encourage anyone to find me a Blizzard representative stating these things were to be included in the release.
Sorry i was not aware of this, my bad if i got it wrong.
But this brings another point: If a game company says, for example that their game will have 6 cities, does that automatically mean that they will be there in release??
Or do we the players assume it? If we do assume it, then why all the complaints about AoCs lack of content?
There is a chat transcript found on a number of different sites from July 26 2004, but removed from the Blizzard website, even though its still a link in their old news.
http://wowvault.ign.com/?dir=articles/library&content=devchat_07_26_2004
"Hero Classes: After achieving the maximum level in the game, players will be able try to become a Hero Class. Becoming a Hero will be very difficult and arduous, since you can only become a Hero until after maximum level, we do not plan to implement Hero Classes until after all of the game content is completed."
Interesting that they also talked about introducing houses, but I guess it was scrapped. I don't know if this proves that they promised hero classes, or the to what extent they were on the table at launch, but they did tell the public that they were in the works at one point.
Also interesting is that Death-Knights were going to be one the original classes until it was scrapped, and that comes from Blizzcon 2005. I guess they can call it a 'hero class' because that's what it was in WC3, but so were a few of the other standard classes that made it into launch.
Anyway, I thought Vanguard was the last straw that everyone was supposed to learn from.
I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that it probably would not be in at release. Obviously Hero Classes were not in at this point on July 26, so unless somewhere they later said that Hero Classes were in, I'd say that's no where near a promise.
And as for player housing...
"Q: What are the plans for Housing in the World of Warcraft?
A: Player housing will not be available until after World of Warcraft has been released."
There's more to the answer, but you have all you need to know in that one line. They still have not ruled out player housing, just that other things are taking precedence because they don't believe it's all that important.
Obviously you guys can't read between the lines...they are doing exactly the same thing as AoC, just that they are being a "little" more up front with it....and I say a "little".
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
I think you have a very good point here and could quite very well be what AoC has run into. I'm not aware of what their development process was like or what they had or had not promised. Yes there were people that were screaming that Blizzard left stuff out as well, but as I remember it, the features that were supposedly missing were never officially IN the release. They were discussed and the door was left open for them to be in if there was time (like Heroes), but until they were actually IN the game, it was never stated that it is would be part of the release. In fact by making comments such that they did, if you read between the lines you understood that most likely it would be included at a later point in time, much like what War has done. There's nothing wrong with doing that at all, but you see what kind of stir it causes in the forums. 4 years from now when War increases it to 6 cities somebody will complain that it was promised at release.
Someone filed a law suit against Funcom for features on the box not properly implemented in the game? Wow.
Really, got a link or more info? Did SOE front them the money?
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
strongly disagree. Mythic created a huge hype with the classes and city sieges. now they bited more than they can chew the content has been drastically cut. and you say its good?
we can discuss how good or bad will the actual content be,but of one thing we are all sure. the game will be unfinished at release.
let me remark this: we will be paying for an UNFINISHED game.
this is by no means a step in the right direction,more like the same wrong move we see every week.
what the customers want is a finished game with all that was promised...delay? sure,no problem. gimme something worth my money,i can wait a bit more.dont give us a rushed half assed game,just to compete in time with other products,it will only damage your image (as it has happened)
and dont compare to what others did worse...thats not the mirror they should be looking in,and that doesnt make them right.
im MY pesonal opinion, Mythic have greatly dissapointed all of us. im afraid that my dream game will turn a nightmare,and the blame is all on them,
I see your point. It doesnt sound good, at first.
There seems to be a re-occuring theme here, and that is, that games cannot be released in such a complete and massive (complete content)state as we expect. Why? Maybe financial, i don't know. But it has happened to so many games across so many producers.
The good thing is that the producers of these games, maybe now, have come to realise that it is better, in the first place, to be up front about the content in their games at release. And have started to listen to the players, as demonstrated by the recent mass dissapproval of AoC due to un-polish and lack of content and the subsequent annoucment by Mythic of exactly what to expect at release.
The next logical step is to release games in full and polished state, as consumer wants.
I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that it probably would not be in at release. Obviously Hero Classes were not in at this point on July 26, so unless somewhere they later said that Hero Classes were in, I'd say that's no where near a promise.
And as for player housing...
"Q: What are the plans for Housing in the World of Warcraft?
A: Player housing will not be available until after World of Warcraft has been released."
There's more to the answer, but you have all you need to know in that one line. They still have not ruled out player housing, just that other things are taking precedence because they don't believe it's all that important.
I understand what you were saying, but I do remember the player base expecting Hero Classes at some point, to some extent it was part of the launch hype. In that same address to the fans it was stated that Raiding, Pvp, and Hero Classes where going to be end game content paths. I played at launch, and I quit after 3 months because endgame was thin... MC with a week lockout, and BRS. That was it..
People cried out, "I'm bored, help", and the fanbois replied, "wait for Pvp updates and hero classes." I've never seen a press release that stated Hero Classes were officially off the table, and the player base went on waiting. You can spin it anyway you want, but 1/3 of the planned endgame paths was never implemented.
I guess their development cycle was slow considering they talked about Mount Hyjal and AQ in beta, both of which took substantial time to make it into the game. /shrug
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
EQ2 fan sites
AOC is setting the standards to what is acceptable in the year 2008 yes. And Mythic is gonna follow the same pattern. Infact - it looks like they are following the exact same pattern. Funcom cut two classes from their game about 5 months before launch. And AOC did not launch with their PVP system at all. Even tho they didn't announch it before launch...
So.. What are we seeing with the 2008 releases ? Yes - we are seeing alot of loud talking PR devs hyping up the game with all possible means. They sell everyone (including the money men) all kinda ideas and the "next generation" mmo. But then... at some point - Usually 4-5 months before releaase those devs have to deliver something of what they talked about. And then... just like before - they end up pleasing the money men before they even think about the gamers. This is what happened with Funcom and AOC and this is exactly what is happening with Mythic and WAR. All of a sudden they realise they can't even deliver half of wheir idea - cause lets face it... it wasn't realistic. And thats why they are more likly to end up with a bastard of a game that ends up with comprimising everything that was the basics of the game in the first place.
This is what Mythic is now doing. Their basics was to build up a game on 3 diffrent fronts - with 6 major cities. With 6 races. With equal amount of arhctype classes in each race. Yes... THIS was the orginal idea. And all those classes... those cities.... The ORGINAL idea INCLUDING the classes was build on a gaming enviroment that has been around for decades. Mythic is now just fine comprimising this basic of their system - JUST because they can't bother with making it work. And why ?? Because they dont have time for it. This is obvious signs that Mythic is ready to comprimise EVERYTHING just to launch the game. And it really wont matter in what state they launch it. Cause they have already made comprimises on the biggest - most TELLING and ORGINAL part of the game.
This dissision was not taken yesterday - or last week. It was taken more than month ago. Then the devs realised there was no way in hell they would deliver half of what they had hyped up. Now it was time to try to land the plane. And yes... 8 of the wheels had been removed midflight.
Now the reality for Mythics hit them. They have to make the whole game come together. And you know what? How are they doing it now ? Yes.. By removing the orginal idea. The basic system of the game.
Is this the future of Next gen MMOs ? If so then I hope WoW will release 10000 expansions in TBC quality (in terms of bugfree and tested content). Games are now the biggest single form of entertainment in the world including movies, dvds. and music (48 billion dollars) and this is what the MMO genre is offering ?
No thank you. Its time that we - the MMO gamers actually come together to stop this kinda developing. Like many have pointed out - its nothing new to the genre. But its not something that is a must to make a good MMO. Cause if 5 years of testing is needed to make a MMO - then the games should be FREE for 5 years before it comes out. And THEN ppl should start paying for it.
Both AOC and WAR are changing the CORE of their orginal ideas. Thats sign of just one thing. Their ideas sucked in the first place. And it took them 5 years to find out ? No.. It was all just PR.