So even the mighty Bilzzard cannot release, or did not release a fully fleshed out end game.
What hope for the likes of Funcom and Mythic?
And why can't games be released in the full state that we demand?
Some of these producers, Funcom and Mythic have had releases before, so they know the market and the industry, so one would expect they get it right the second time around, or maybe closer to right then they so far have demonstrated. To me this points to something beyond their control, and i assume it is financial.
It seems Funcom has taken a lot of flak for the current industry standard of releasing games. And Mythic wants to avoid that flak, as ultimately it is not good for business as demonstrated by the droves of people leaving AoC, which all will agree is a good game, or will be a good game once the content and polish has been applied (whether you like AoC is of course a matter of opinion, but in essence it is a decent game).
IMO we've already witnessed the pinnacle of a polished MMO release. LOTRO set that standard last year.
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
Thats funny, there are tons of people playing LOTRO, and server populations are good.
I am sorry reading quests are hard for you.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds. But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
Plz show us picutures of it. It must be a picture of it since we have only about 15.000.000 copies of the orginal release.
Would also be nice if you could show me the statement from Blizzard 2 weeks before launch that this content was IN the game at release. Like Funcom did with their statement about keeping DX10, Spellweaving and Siegeing away from the beta testers....
Seriously - Stop making up excuses for MMO genre to release buggy and untested content. It is not good for anyone. IFyou are a TRUE fanboy of MMOs instead of selfish kissass title gamer like most of you turn out to be (WOW IS THE BEST - LOTRO IS CRAP (or the other way around)) then maybe we will actually at some point see some real Next gen MMO. Until then we will just keep on getting PR and bunch of bugs and missing content.
Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds. But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
So the game manual, which was written several months before the game was released was incorrect. This is an unfortunate event which happens quite often because the manuals get put together prior to finalizing the game. They put that information in the manual in the event that it makes the game.
The manual is not released PRIOR to the release of the game and therefore no PROMISE was made, the manual was just incorrect upon release.
Blizzard also released a readme document which I believe stated that the manual was incorrect. I don't have that file with me at the moment. I'll have to find it.
So even the mighty Bilzzard cannot release, or did not release a fully fleshed out end game. What hope for the likes of Funcom and Mythic? And why can't games be released in the full state that we demand? Some of these producers, Funcom and Mythic have had releases before, so they know the market and the industry, so one would expect they get it right the second time around, or maybe closer to right then they so far have demonstrated. To me this points to something beyond their control, and i assume it is financial.
It seems Funcom has taken a lot of flak for the current industry standard of releasing games. And Mythic wants to avoid that flak, as ultimately it is not good for business as demonstrated by the droves of people leaving AoC, which all will agree is a good game, or will be a good game once the content and polish has been applied (whether you like AoC is of course a matter of opinion, but in essence it is a decent game).
you seem to think that doing better than FUNCOM is an achievement on itself.lets forget about FUNCOM.lets pretend that AoC never existed.
now what do we have? a huge let down by Mythic,no more no less. a spit in the warhammer community's face. a game that appears to be going downhill with no brakes even before releasing. and a publisher that will feed the lies till there's simply no more way out than telling the naked truth and pray for understanding....if they get it,they will fall again for the mistake,trust me.
oh well,Im so royally bugged by the Black Guard being removed that maybe im exaggerating a bit. but 2 weeks ago i'd had labelled Mythic as the only decent publisher out there,worth all trust support and understanding. now...oh well...
i just hope they dont screw WAR any more,i'd declare myself content with that.
I think unfortunately the thread title is going to prove to be true.
Companies know that the first 2-3 weeks is crucial for sales and word of mouth and gaming site reviews carry alot of weight. So what we are going to see is alot of half assed games with decent enough low level content and alot of gimmiky bells and whistles... all flash and no substance is the new wave of the future for MMOs. By the time word gets out that the game is a completely unfinshed pile of stinking crap like AoC is they will have sold 500k+ copies. The few people that continue subbing is just icing on the cake as they will have paid for their game (and made the money it cost to make the game back) with the initial sales.
I see this approach due to shortsightedness by the investors and inefficient devs. Instead of releasing a game that has the potential to keep people happily busy playing their game and subbing for months and months, they go for the quick money, sabotaging a games future.
Look at AoC, they have sold 800k boxes or whatever, but hardly anyone would continue subbing for that game, because what is the point? Even the most laid back casual gamer will have blown through their little content within a month, if not that then definately two months.
Absolutely Blizzard talked about hero classes and PvP rankings and battlegrounds. But I don't seem to remember any official statements from Blizzard that they would be in the release, nor do I remember seeing any forum posts to that effect.
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
So the game manual, which was written several months before the game was released was incorrect. This is an unfortunate event which happens quite often because the manuals get put together prior to finalizing the game. They put that information in the manual in the event that it makes the game.
The manual is not released PRIOR to the release of the game and therefore no PROMISE was made, the manual was just incorrect upon release.
If only they had just kept the battlegrounds out, not raised the levels to 70 and made all that content obsolete, I might just still be playing that game.
The world pvp was so much more fun before the battlegrounds. But that wasn't as bad of a move as the expansion. They have so many nice dungeons and old raids (pre bc ) that are just sitting there taking up space that could have been still used for guilds to level up with. Now everyone just goes from quest gear straight to t4 or pvp epics... blah
Get ready for all that content to become obsolete again, as WoW effectively shrinks instead of getting bigger.
you seem to think that doing better than FUNCOM is an achievement on itself.lets forget about FUNCOM.lets pretend that AoC never existed. now what do we have? a huge let down by Mythic,no more no less. a spit in the warhammer community's face. a game that appears to be going downhill with no brakes even before releasing. and a publisher that will feed the lies till there's simply no more way out than telling the naked truth and pray for understanding....if they get it,they will fall again for the mistake,trust me.
oh well,Im so royally bugged by the Black Guard being removed that maybe im exaggerating a bit. but 2 weeks ago i'd had labelled Mythic as the only decent publisher out there,worth all trust support and understanding. now...oh well...
i just hope they dont screw WAR any more,i'd declare myself content with that.
I think that Funcom released at the industry standard, give or take a bit of polish and content.
You may feel it was a let down by Mythic, as you assumed that when they say there will be 6 cities in the game, that they will all be there on release. Whereas this was never the intention.
Isn't it better that they came clean months before release, instead of waiting till you buy the game and then let you find out?
IMO we've already witnessed the pinnacle of a polished MMO release. LOTRO set that standard last year.
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
You even talking about LoTRO? The servers are just as populated now as they were a year ago at launch. Heck, I think Landroval has even grown bigger and it was the 2nd highest pop server at launch.
And there's queu's on several servers every Update. LoTRO's numbers are extremely healthy so I don't know if you are just talking out your butt or confused.
What's funny to me, I heard someone say Funcom was developing a new mmog and I laughed. Then I heard it was a Conan mmog and I laughed more. The only thing I can think that would shove a mmog off my radar more than a Funcom Conan mmog is a NetDevil Lego mmog, and it's a pretty close race.
Spoils of War - The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
WAR's recent announcement that they will be cutting back on content when the game releases is a step in the right direction for the consumers. There maybe many reasons why WAR chose to announce this now: 1. They saw what happened to AoC, all the negative publicity at releasing a game with elements that were promised but not in during released. They had planned to do the same but are now coming clean.
2.Someone has bought a law suit against FUNCOM for the state of the release, taking issue with what appears on the back of the game box and what exactly is in the game. Not wanting to be caught up with similar cases WAR announced now exactly what will be in the game at release.
3. They have cut content to polish and balance the bits that will actually release on the day, ensuring that it runs smoothly and without any major issue, again so as not release in the same way as AoC.
All in all it is a move in the right direction, for we the player base, the producers have seen that the player base will no longer put up with empty promises and buggy software at release. And hopefully it will only get better from here on in, with producers giving a bit more respect to the paying players. PS: We maybe getting smaller games on release day...... but then again that's, maybe, what we would always get, let me explain: In the case of WAR, consider for a moment that they were never gonna release 6 cities on release day, and always planned to release just 2. But after seeing the backlash from AoC they decided to come clean up front. In contrast to this Blizzard seems only to promise what they can deliver, however small, in the up-coming expansion they have promised the impressive number of ONE hero class. However since they promised only one, no one will be disappointed on release day. And once they are sure that one is working the can gradually release more hero classes.
You are obviously new to Mythic Entertainment's value's and beliefs. This is how they opperate, this is standard practice when they made the announcement.. They have always communicated to their client's/fans since Dark Ages of Camelot.
Nice attempt at a nice AoC discussion/comparison but I wouldn't go there and I gave you poor feedback for this post.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
IMO we've already witnessed the pinnacle of a polished MMO release. LOTRO set that standard last year.
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
LOTRO seems to be the redheaded stepchild of mmos. No one really talks negative about it, they just slide offhand remarks like this under the door, yet they can't deny the facts:
- One of the smoothest launches in mmo history
- Regular and free content updates...like clockwork
- Awesome community
- Developers and community reps that actually listen
- Expansion pack this fall (already)
- Healthy player base
- Awards up the ass
- Highest rated mmo on this very site, but a large margin
Even though our low pop server seems very busy, I'm boggled that more people don't play this game. I guess actually having to read quests and explore is a massive turn off. LOTRO is sort of like the EVE of fantasy mmos. Excellent game with a dedicated core. Oh well, your loss.
I don't know what's going to happen with WAR. But I did play AoC and it was a mess. Developers better get their act together.
And here's a link from 11-6-2004, only 2 weeks before release stating that hero classes would be added after the release. No where does it mention that they are being "pulled" or anything to that effect, just stating that they will not be in the release. If they had "promised" hero classes prior to this date, than why no mention that they're backing out on their promise here?
Hero classes were something that Blizzard mentioned prior to release but they made it pretty clear it was going to be something that was added later. Just like housing.
I do think that Blizzard planned to have a PvP honor system and battlegrounds in the game at release but at some point they realized it wasn't going to make the release. Here's a small snipet I found on a website about an official post on 11-30-2004, one week after launch.
"Originally Posted by Tyren
The dishonorable system is already in the game for civilian NPCs. You cannot get a dishonorable kill for killing a fellow player.
[snip]
1. Due to the Alliance, Horde and Contested areas, you can only really be PKed once you are in your 20s. Thus you have a good amount of time to learn the ropes of your class and if the need should arise, be able to escape certain situations.
2. The death penalty is neglible, thus the worst thing that can happen is to lose some time.
In reality a penalty system gives rise to griefing and baiting. A penalty system would discourage PvP rather than make it more fair across the board.
Instead of penalizing "bad" behavior, we want to encourage good behavior through a reward system.
[snip]
The introduction of a PvP penalty system opens the doors to many "what if" situations.
Lets say theres a mass PvP raid with players of all levels. Are you forced to watch who you are attacking for fear that killing those players will result in a penalty?
What if a lower level player is walking around buffing players who do not have a PvP flag. So lets say he sits there and buffs people prior to fights and after they rezz. You cannot touch that person because they are not flagged for PvP.
What if a lower level player decides it'd be fun to follow you around everywhere but not attack you to make a nuisance of himself.
The system is currently very wide open. But it's a more natural system of PvP, rather than try to figure out who you can attack and who you can't and what are the consequences."
So in effect WoW WAS released with an honor system, granted a very very limited honor system in that you were only punished for killing NPC's, nothing about PvP. That's because they decided against an honor system that punished you because they felt it would discourage PvP. 6 months later they came back and added the honor "reward" system and BG's to encourage PvP play.
Uh, I got quite upset on LOTRO, there wasn't any content at launch. While it didn't have so many buggs releasing a game with small parts at the time kinda sux.
My other issues is: No bad races, the avatars is the ugliest thing in the game... And I didnt like the gameplay that much either. So I don't play it, NP.
Only trolls spamms a forum and trolls usually like to piss off a lot off people, therefor they are badmouthing bigger game, usually Wow and lately AoC.
The only good launch ever was GUILDWARS. AOC was just following with the rest of the launches from most of the games, if you do believe AoC was the worst then you never played a SOE game from launch.
The standard is in the whole software industry and was set by Microsoft for their buggridden "Windows 95", and they have been following that succes even since (Try a unpatched XP with no service packs if you dont believe me, AoC didnt have buggs compare to that...).
Uh, I got quite upset on LOTRO, there wasn't any content at launch. While it didn't have so many buggs releasing a game with small parts at the time kinda sux. My other issues is: No bad races, the avatars is the ugliest thing in the game... And I didnt like the gameplay that much either. So I don't play it, NP. Only trolls spamms a forum and trolls usually like to piss off a lot off people, therefor they are badmouthing bigger game, usually Wow and lately AoC. The only good launch ever was GUILDWARS. AOC was just following with the rest of the launches from most of the games, if you do believe AoC was the worst then you never played a SOE game from launch. The standard is in the whole software industry and was set by Microsoft for their buggridden "Windows 95", and they have been following that succes even since (Try a unpatched XP with no service packs if you dont believe me, AoC didnt have buggs compare to that...).
So what you are saying is AoC is a stinking pile of crap.
And AoC has the least amount of content of any premium MMO ever at launch, by a large margin. LOTRO had TONS of content in comparison to AoC. Not to mention nothing freakin works in AoC. They are very far below standard and the bad thing is they are lowering the standards for future games, who will see they can release a half ass broken game and still make tons of money on box sales.
Originally posted by Pappy13 That's because they decided against an honor system that punished you because they felt it would discourage PvP. 6 months later they came back and added the honor "reward" system and BG's to encourage PvP play.
Unfortunately, the opposite happened. "World PVP" completely died out. I used to play WoW before the battlgrounds and it was a blast in regards to the world pvp.
Originally posted by Pappy13 That's because they decided against an honor system that punished you because they felt it would discourage PvP. 6 months later they came back and added the honor "reward" system and BG's to encourage PvP play.
Unfortunately, the opposite happened. "World PVP" completely died out. I used to play WoW before the battlgrounds and it was a blast in regards to the world pvp.
It was replaced by BG PvP which has flourished. Sorry about that.
WAR's recent announcement that they will be cutting back on content when the game releases is a step in the right direction for the consumers. There maybe many reasons why WAR chose to announce this now: 1. They saw what happened to AoC, all the negative publicity at releasing a game with elements that were promised but not in during released. They had planned to do the same but are now coming clean.
2.Someone has bought a law suit against FUNCOM for the state of the release, taking issue with what appears on the back of the game box and what exactly is in the game. Not wanting to be caught up with similar cases WAR announced now exactly what will be in the game at release.
3. They have cut content to polish and balance the bits that will actually release on the day, ensuring that it runs smoothly and without any major issue, again so as not release in the same way as AoC.
All in all it is a move in the right direction, for we the player base, the producers have seen that the player base will no longer put up with empty promises and buggy software at release. And hopefully it will only get better from here on in, with producers giving a bit more respect to the paying players. PS: We maybe getting smaller games on release day...... but then again that's, maybe, what we would always get, let me explain: In the case of WAR, consider for a moment that they were never gonna release 6 cities on release day, and always planned to release just 2. But after seeing the backlash from AoC they decided to come clean up front. In contrast to this Blizzard seems only to promise what they can deliver, however small, in the up-coming expansion they have promised the impressive number of ONE hero class. However since they promised only one, no one will be disappointed on release day. And once they are sure that one is working the can gradually release more hero classes.
You are obviously new to Mythic Entertainment's value's and beliefs. This is how they opperate, this is standard practice when they made the announcement.. They have always communicated to their client's/fans since Dark Ages of Camelot.
Nice attempt at a nice AoC discussion/comparison but I wouldn't go there and I gave you poor feedback for this post.
This is exactly why I logged in, instead of just browsing the boards. I wanted to make sure someone hadn't got through saying this before I said the same thing.
Anyway, Sinjin is exactly right. For the people new to the way Mythic opperates, this is how it is!
This is why people, like myself, who are not even interested in the game still have much respect for them. They made alot of mistakes in the past, they stepped up to the plate and took what was being served though. Alot of times it took a long time for them to come around, but really what can you expect? I imagine after you put blood, sweat, and tears into something; then everyone just spits it back in your face. Yea it would be a little hard to accept.
Whoever in that company decided to just say screw it and drop the bs. Well, it was ingenious and at the same time got my respect.
And to throw what I think about the cutting back, out there.....
I think it was more of a good thing than many of you will ever realize. I know of many times in DAoC when people were so spread out, that the RvR would get dull at times. There would just not be a enough concentration of people to have that Epic feel to it. This should make it a lot more often though.
In the grand scheme of things, I think this was a very intelligent move.
Alot of people are pointing the finger at Funcom but really the players are just as much to blame..... Not once did players stand up to this company when they were charging people to play open beta.....Way too many people went nuts buying CEs and paying Fileplanet to beta AoC......Alot of people took Funcom's line hook and sinker.......Why do you think they held the NDA till the last possible second?? Why didnt people go to some of the sites where beta players were saying the game was a disaster and that it needed alot of work?? Why are people paying 60+ dollars for a game they basically know next t onothing about?? Why do you think they only allowed up to level 20 in their preview week?? All the signs were there that AoC was a disaster but many players totally ignored them and bought the game blindly.....No one will get a dime in court from Funcom and I hope that many learn their lesson about buying stuff in its early stages.....I wonder yet I see games like Warhmmer where people were buying the CE and its probably 4-6 months away and they are already taking stuff out......When you know little or nothing about games then you have to be patient and wait.....The problem with too many people is this is an I want it now society and as a result you will ahve alot of problems when youre not patient......Sorry but alot of you got what you deserved with this game.
Alot of people are pointing the finger at Funcom but really the players are just as much to blame..... Not once did players stand up to this company when they were charging people to play open beta.....Way too many people went nuts buying CEs and paying Fileplanet to beta AoC......Alot of people took Funcom's line hook and sinker.......Why do you think they held the NDA till the last possible second?? Why didnt people go to some of the sites where beta players were saying the game was a disaster and that it needed alot of work?? Why are people paying 60+ dollars for a game they basically know next t onothing about?? Why do you think they only allowed up to level 20 in their preview week?? All the signs were there that AoC was a disaster but many players totally ignored them and bought the game blindly.....No one will get a dime in court from Funcom and I hope that many learn their lesson about buying stuff in its early stages.....I wonder yet I see games like Warhmmer where people were buying the CE and its probably 4-6 months away and they are already taking stuff out......When you know little or nothing about games then you have to be patient and wait.....The problem with too many people is this is an I want it now society and as a result you will ahve alot of problems when youre not patient......Sorry but alot of you got what you deserved with this game.
Blaming the customers for the blunder of bugs from Funcom is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read.
Thats like when someone rapes a girl blaming the girl for not being a fatass nasty skank that would never turn anyone on.
You guys do know that if Mythic "come clean" as in "promising less official content", then that's exactly what you'll get and they can take their SLOW ASS TIME to add new content, and there's DIDDLY squat anyone can do about it.
Funcom on the other hand, now are -forced- to do weekly/bi-weekly updates to delivery the content they promised. Why does this make me more happy? Because i KNOW they will have to sort it out.
Simply put:
WAR player : "wtf , why is there no quests between lvl 50 - 80 ?"
WAR player2 : "They never actually said there will be any quests, grind it sucker. Maybe one day they will add some quests...."
FUNCOM player : "wtf, why is there no quests between lvl 50-80?"
FUNCOM player2: "yea, wtf, they promised all this content, i'm gonna kick them in the balls to get the next update out faster!!! "
FUNCOM player3 : "i believe they said they will bring some quests in "soon" "
Comments
So even the mighty Bilzzard cannot release, or did not release a fully fleshed out end game.
What hope for the likes of Funcom and Mythic?
And why can't games be released in the full state that we demand?
Some of these producers, Funcom and Mythic have had releases before, so they know the market and the industry, so one would expect they get it right the second time around, or maybe closer to right then they so far have demonstrated. To me this points to something beyond their control, and i assume it is financial.
It seems Funcom has taken a lot of flak for the current industry standard of releasing games. And Mythic wants to avoid that flak, as ultimately it is not good for business as demonstrated by the droves of people leaving AoC, which all will agree is a good game, or will be a good game once the content and polish has been applied (whether you like AoC is of course a matter of opinion, but in essence it is a decent game).
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
Thats funny, there are tons of people playing LOTRO, and server populations are good.
I am sorry reading quests are hard for you.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
Plz show us picutures of it. It must be a picture of it since we have only about 15.000.000 copies of the orginal release.
Would also be nice if you could show me the statement from Blizzard 2 weeks before launch that this content was IN the game at release. Like Funcom did with their statement about keeping DX10, Spellweaving and Siegeing away from the beta testers....
Seriously - Stop making up excuses for MMO genre to release buggy and untested content. It is not good for anyone. IFyou are a TRUE fanboy of MMOs instead of selfish kissass title gamer like most of you turn out to be (WOW IS THE BEST - LOTRO IS CRAP (or the other way around)) then maybe we will actually at some point see some real Next gen MMO. Until then we will just keep on getting PR and bunch of bugs and missing content.
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
So the game manual, which was written several months before the game was released was incorrect. This is an unfortunate event which happens quite often because the manuals get put together prior to finalizing the game. They put that information in the manual in the event that it makes the game.
The manual is not released PRIOR to the release of the game and therefore no PROMISE was made, the manual was just incorrect upon release.
Blizzard also released a readme document which I believe stated that the manual was incorrect. I don't have that file with me at the moment. I'll have to find it.
you seem to think that doing better than FUNCOM is an achievement on itself.lets forget about FUNCOM.lets pretend that AoC never existed.
now what do we have? a huge let down by Mythic,no more no less. a spit in the warhammer community's face. a game that appears to be going downhill with no brakes even before releasing. and a publisher that will feed the lies till there's simply no more way out than telling the naked truth and pray for understanding....if they get it,they will fall again for the mistake,trust me.
oh well,Im so royally bugged by the Black Guard being removed that maybe im exaggerating a bit. but 2 weeks ago i'd had labelled Mythic as the only decent publisher out there,worth all trust support and understanding. now...oh well...
i just hope they dont screw WAR any more,i'd declare myself content with that.
I think unfortunately the thread title is going to prove to be true.
Companies know that the first 2-3 weeks is crucial for sales and word of mouth and gaming site reviews carry alot of weight. So what we are going to see is alot of half assed games with decent enough low level content and alot of gimmiky bells and whistles... all flash and no substance is the new wave of the future for MMOs. By the time word gets out that the game is a completely unfinshed pile of stinking crap like AoC is they will have sold 500k+ copies. The few people that continue subbing is just icing on the cake as they will have paid for their game (and made the money it cost to make the game back) with the initial sales.
I see this approach due to shortsightedness by the investors and inefficient devs. Instead of releasing a game that has the potential to keep people happily busy playing their game and subbing for months and months, they go for the quick money, sabotaging a games future.
Look at AoC, they have sold 800k boxes or whatever, but hardly anyone would continue subbing for that game, because what is the point? Even the most laid back casual gamer will have blown through their little content within a month, if not that then definately two months.
Both PVP honor points and battle grounds were in the Game Manual at release
- look on pages 133 and 134
So the game manual, which was written several months before the game was released was incorrect. This is an unfortunate event which happens quite often because the manuals get put together prior to finalizing the game. They put that information in the manual in the event that it makes the game.
The manual is not released PRIOR to the release of the game and therefore no PROMISE was made, the manual was just incorrect upon release.
If only they had just kept the battlegrounds out, not raised the levels to 70 and made all that content obsolete, I might just still be playing that game.
The world pvp was so much more fun before the battlegrounds. But that wasn't as bad of a move as the expansion. They have so many nice dungeons and old raids (pre bc ) that are just sitting there taking up space that could have been still used for guilds to level up with. Now everyone just goes from quest gear straight to t4 or pvp epics... blah
Get ready for all that content to become obsolete again, as WoW effectively shrinks instead of getting bigger.
/wow rant off
I think that Funcom released at the industry standard, give or take a bit of polish and content.
You may feel it was a let down by Mythic, as you assumed that when they say there will be 6 cities in the game, that they will all be there on release. Whereas this was never the intention.
Isn't it better that they came clean months before release, instead of waiting till you buy the game and then let you find out?
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
You even talking about LoTRO? The servers are just as populated now as they were a year ago at launch. Heck, I think Landroval has even grown bigger and it was the 2nd highest pop server at launch.
And there's queu's on several servers every Update. LoTRO's numbers are extremely healthy so I don't know if you are just talking out your butt or confused.
What's funny to me, I heard someone say Funcom was developing a new mmog and I laughed. Then I heard it was a Conan mmog and I laughed more. The only thing I can think that would shove a mmog off my radar more than a Funcom Conan mmog is a NetDevil Lego mmog, and it's a pretty close race.
Spoils of War - The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
http://www.planetwarcraft.com/wow/features/articles/fansitechat/index.shtml
Here is the link about WoW and Hero Classes. This was an interview that was taken during the beta for the game
Note the references toward housing and hero classes
You are obviously new to Mythic Entertainment's value's and beliefs. This is how they opperate, this is standard practice when they made the announcement.. They have always communicated to their client's/fans since Dark Ages of Camelot.
Nice attempt at a nice AoC discussion/comparison but I wouldn't go there and I gave you poor feedback for this post.
Who gives a flying fish about LoTRO?
Let's talk about a game that released polished AND managed to retain subs.
LOTRO seems to be the redheaded stepchild of mmos. No one really talks negative about it, they just slide offhand remarks like this under the door, yet they can't deny the facts:
- One of the smoothest launches in mmo history
- Regular and free content updates...like clockwork
- Awesome community
- Developers and community reps that actually listen
- Expansion pack this fall (already)
- Healthy player base
- Awards up the ass
- Highest rated mmo on this very site, but a large margin
Even though our low pop server seems very busy, I'm boggled that more people don't play this game. I guess actually having to read quests and explore is a massive turn off. LOTRO is sort of like the EVE of fantasy mmos. Excellent game with a dedicated core. Oh well, your loss.
I don't know what's going to happen with WAR. But I did play AoC and it was a mess. Developers better get their act together.
This was already posted and answered here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2137991#2137991
And here's a link from 11-6-2004, only 2 weeks before release stating that hero classes would be added after the release. No where does it mention that they are being "pulled" or anything to that effect, just stating that they will not be in the release. If they had "promised" hero classes prior to this date, than why no mention that they're backing out on their promise here?
http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Totw.Detail&id=41
Hero classes were something that Blizzard mentioned prior to release but they made it pretty clear it was going to be something that was added later. Just like housing.
I do think that Blizzard planned to have a PvP honor system and battlegrounds in the game at release but at some point they realized it wasn't going to make the release. Here's a small snipet I found on a website about an official post on 11-30-2004, one week after launch.
"Originally Posted by Tyren
[snip]
1. Due to the Alliance, Horde and Contested areas, you can only really be PKed once you are in your 20s. Thus you have a good amount of time to learn the ropes of your class and if the need should arise, be able to escape certain situations.
2. The death penalty is neglible, thus the worst thing that can happen is to lose some time.
In reality a penalty system gives rise to griefing and baiting. A penalty system would discourage PvP rather than make it more fair across the board.
Instead of penalizing "bad" behavior, we want to encourage good behavior through a reward system.
[snip]
The introduction of a PvP penalty system opens the doors to many "what if" situations.
Lets say theres a mass PvP raid with players of all levels. Are you forced to watch who you are attacking for fear that killing those players will result in a penalty?
What if a lower level player is walking around buffing players who do not have a PvP flag. So lets say he sits there and buffs people prior to fights and after they rezz. You cannot touch that person because they are not flagged for PvP.
What if a lower level player decides it'd be fun to follow you around everywhere but not attack you to make a nuisance of himself.
The system is currently very wide open. But it's a more natural system of PvP, rather than try to figure out who you can attack and who you can't and what are the consequences."
So in effect WoW WAS released with an honor system, granted a very very limited honor system in that you were only punished for killing NPC's, nothing about PvP. That's because they decided against an honor system that punished you because they felt it would discourage PvP. 6 months later they came back and added the honor "reward" system and BG's to encourage PvP play.
Uh, I got quite upset on LOTRO, there wasn't any content at launch. While it didn't have so many buggs releasing a game with small parts at the time kinda sux.
My other issues is: No bad races, the avatars is the ugliest thing in the game... And I didnt like the gameplay that much either. So I don't play it, NP.
Only trolls spamms a forum and trolls usually like to piss off a lot off people, therefor they are badmouthing bigger game, usually Wow and lately AoC.
The only good launch ever was GUILDWARS. AOC was just following with the rest of the launches from most of the games, if you do believe AoC was the worst then you never played a SOE game from launch.
The standard is in the whole software industry and was set by Microsoft for their buggridden "Windows 95", and they have been following that succes even since (Try a unpatched XP with no service packs if you dont believe me, AoC didnt have buggs compare to that...).
So what you are saying is AoC is a stinking pile of crap.
And AoC has the least amount of content of any premium MMO ever at launch, by a large margin. LOTRO had TONS of content in comparison to AoC. Not to mention nothing freakin works in AoC. They are very far below standard and the bad thing is they are lowering the standards for future games, who will see they can release a half ass broken game and still make tons of money on box sales.
Unfortunately, the opposite happened. "World PVP" completely died out. I used to play WoW before the battlgrounds and it was a blast in regards to the world pvp.
Unfortunately, the opposite happened. "World PVP" completely died out. I used to play WoW before the battlgrounds and it was a blast in regards to the world pvp.
It was replaced by BG PvP which has flourished. Sorry about that.
You are obviously new to Mythic Entertainment's value's and beliefs. This is how they opperate, this is standard practice when they made the announcement.. They have always communicated to their client's/fans since Dark Ages of Camelot.
Nice attempt at a nice AoC discussion/comparison but I wouldn't go there and I gave you poor feedback for this post.
This is exactly why I logged in, instead of just browsing the boards. I wanted to make sure someone hadn't got through saying this before I said the same thing.
Anyway, Sinjin is exactly right. For the people new to the way Mythic opperates, this is how it is!
This is why people, like myself, who are not even interested in the game still have much respect for them. They made alot of mistakes in the past, they stepped up to the plate and took what was being served though. Alot of times it took a long time for them to come around, but really what can you expect? I imagine after you put blood, sweat, and tears into something; then everyone just spits it back in your face. Yea it would be a little hard to accept.
Whoever in that company decided to just say screw it and drop the bs. Well, it was ingenious and at the same time got my respect.
And to throw what I think about the cutting back, out there.....
I think it was more of a good thing than many of you will ever realize. I know of many times in DAoC when people were so spread out, that the RvR would get dull at times. There would just not be a enough concentration of people to have that Epic feel to it. This should make it a lot more often though.
In the grand scheme of things, I think this was a very intelligent move.
Alot of people are pointing the finger at Funcom but really the players are just as much to blame..... Not once did players stand up to this company when they were charging people to play open beta.....Way too many people went nuts buying CEs and paying Fileplanet to beta AoC......Alot of people took Funcom's line hook and sinker.......Why do you think they held the NDA till the last possible second?? Why didnt people go to some of the sites where beta players were saying the game was a disaster and that it needed alot of work?? Why are people paying 60+ dollars for a game they basically know next t onothing about?? Why do you think they only allowed up to level 20 in their preview week?? All the signs were there that AoC was a disaster but many players totally ignored them and bought the game blindly.....No one will get a dime in court from Funcom and I hope that many learn their lesson about buying stuff in its early stages.....I wonder yet I see games like Warhmmer where people were buying the CE and its probably 4-6 months away and they are already taking stuff out......When you know little or nothing about games then you have to be patient and wait.....The problem with too many people is this is an I want it now society and as a result you will ahve alot of problems when youre not patient......Sorry but alot of you got what you deserved with this game.
http://dimfall.blogspot.com/
Blaming the customers for the blunder of bugs from Funcom is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read.
Thats like when someone rapes a girl blaming the girl for not being a fatass nasty skank that would never turn anyone on.
SHOHADAKU
You guys do know that if Mythic "come clean" as in "promising less official content", then that's exactly what you'll get and they can take their SLOW ASS TIME to add new content, and there's DIDDLY squat anyone can do about it.
Funcom on the other hand, now are -forced- to do weekly/bi-weekly updates to delivery the content they promised. Why does this make me more happy? Because i KNOW they will have to sort it out.
Simply put:
WAR player : "wtf , why is there no quests between lvl 50 - 80 ?"
WAR player2 : "They never actually said there will be any quests, grind it sucker. Maybe one day they will add some quests...."
FUNCOM player : "wtf, why is there no quests between lvl 50-80?"
FUNCOM player2: "yea, wtf, they promised all this content, i'm gonna kick them in the balls to get the next update out faster!!! "
FUNCOM player3 : "i believe they said they will bring some quests in "soon" "
Which convo would you prefer?