Me personally i am looking to help my realm any way i can. Wether it being a few mins a day or an all nighter, i now have options of how to best enjoy my LIMITED play time.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
Hardcore players are the minority though. It may focus less on the traditional spirit for you, but the majority of players just won't have hours to spend organizing and attacking keeps. I've never understood catering to the minority.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
Hardcore players are the minority though. It may focus less on the traditional spirit for you, but the majority of players just won't have hours to spend organizing and attacking keeps. I've never understood catering to the minority.
So the majority of players since they will not have much time to play will be in instances instead? I figured as much.
simple answer: don't like it, don't play it. Me personally i am looking to help my realm any way i can. Wether it being a few mins a day or an all nighter, i now have options of how to best enjoy my LIMITED play time.
You can bet I won't be playing it if I see it turning into another WoW. The whole reason I got hyped about this game was because I thought it would be different from WoW (in pvp terms). Without that, there's nothing.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
The way I see it is that Scenarios should be the DESSERT and nothing more. If it's the main course, this game will be an epic fail in my eyes.
simple answer: don't like it, don't play it. Me personally i am looking to help my realm any way i can. Wether it being a few mins a day or an all nighter, i now have options of how to best enjoy my LIMITED play time.
You can bet I won't be playing it if I see it turning into another WoW. The whole reason I got hyped about this game was because I thought it would be different from WoW (in pvp terms). Without that, there's nothing.
.... why your even making these statements is beyond me Satatorious. Why this is a worry now is even funnier. Open RvR is the deciding factor adding Keeps & Fortresses made it so last year.
GD seriously people where the hell did you get the idea that Scenarios is the main course? ITS NOT the damn main course and it hasnt' been since LAST YEAR when they SHUT DOWN beta to redesign RvR. Its simply a choice for players who might not want to Open PvP or might not have a whole lot of time on their hands. Its a secondary activity so they can HELP contribute aka HELP is a key word to it not being the MAIN here.
Scenarios is just more battleground bs with a different name. Up until EA's take over and pr blitz RvR has always meant massive open world pvp. Slowly but ever increasingly they have been changing the definition of RvR to mean something more scenario oriented. In press releases and demonstrations RvR is now about scenarios mostly and nothing is mentioned about open pvp unless someone presses the issue directly. With what over 12 scenarios that we do know about in WAR not including the cityseige scenarios, it seems most likely that, for those of us expecting open world pvp, the rug has been quietly pulled out from under us.
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
True but that still doesn't change the fact that what has been implied, meaning when one hears the word RvR, has changed.
Yes in the starkest terms it means realm vs. realm. But what was implied by that term when it was used for the last 7 years was massive open world fighting. Never before now ,has it referred to battleground, scenarios or whatever you would like to call them.
One thing Mythic has said for the past 7 years was that the reason there were no battlegrounds in the endgame of DAOC was because it detracted from RvR.
And yes there is many aspects beyond just scenarios, but when all of these aspects are pulling from single pool of people on a single server one aspect is gonna suffer while another flourishes. I can safely say we know what happened to world pvp in wow right? Who is to that is not gonna happen here?
World PvP was never a part of WoW. Battlegrounds were always the plan. They just did not make it in at release.
A bunch of 60s fighting just outside Tarren Mill for no real reason and no gain was not anything remotely like the built in RvR of WAR. City seiges were never meant to be part of WoW, as evidenced by the fact that any attempt to do so crashed the servers for the first 2 years. And now, 3 well geared 70's can wipe out all of a capital city.
The market for MMOs has changed. They have to appeal to the people who want a deep RvR system and those who want to participate, but don't have the time to dedicate to Open World RvR. It has nothing to do with EA. A developer simply cannot spend the amount of money that it takes to produce a AAA MMO and appeal only to the hardcore players. As much as I hate EA, the influx of cash probably did more to help WAR than hurt it.
I would also dispute the contention that there is "single pool of people on a single server." There are several different pools of players on any given server. There are a lot of people craving the RvR system and really looking forward to that aspect of WAR. There will be an entirely different group of people who aren't able to fully enjoy the RvR, but want to do what they can to help their side.
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
Oh my god..ROFL wow...ok look
WAR has hardcore activites, casual activities, pvp activities, pve activities, and middle of the ground activities. Most games cover 2 very very few successful games cater to only 1. Even AoC catered to 2 of course shit was broken for both sides so it didn't matter. Just because WAR is an RvR game does't mean it has to exclude potential player bases from EITHER damn side. A good MMO has multiple activities for multiple player pools, a GREAT MMO makes both sides valid without making one better than the other. THIS is MYTHICS goal. They're not 'catering' catering means that one side would get MORE than the other.
Just because they offer an activity for casuals does't make it a catered game. Honestly I know have to consider all further comments from you nothing but flaming whine posts because its obviously the only person you want a game to cater too is yourself and thats what single player games are for.
lol so let me get this straight...the only way one should be able to help in RVR is direct open world pvp? Well if that was the case, lets just get rid of public quests, scenarios, seiging, etc. Lets just make it like planetside. Open world pvp and thats it.
Its amazing actually...the same people who were bitching they took out cities limiting options are the SAME people who are here bitching there are too many options for RVR
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
It is self explantory. More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
They need to find a balance so that casuals can have fun and hardcores can have fun as well. I think they've found a pretty good balance. I feel casuals should have just as much chance to have fun as hardcores do.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Gaming is a business. Making games has become outrageously expensive. Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business. The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd.
What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd? Vanguard.
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
Please tell me how you get this when MOST of the content is all open world? Even the dungeons except for the boss are OPEN. The cities sieges have 1 out of 4 stages that is instanced. Scenarios are limted to 1 per Realm until I believe Teir 3 or 4 I'll have to check the website again. MOST of the game PvE & RvR are al Open world.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual. Gaming is a business. Making games has become outrageously expensive. Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business. The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd? Vanguard.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
Open World PvP/RvR consists of taking over keeps, forts, and then end game city sieges, right? Are these zones themselves separate sectioned off zones? Like say zone A.) is The Great Beyond where you level and farm stuff, but then zone B is where you go to RvR?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is are there specific zones where open PvP/RvR is to happen in concerns with taking over keeps/forts. Because I remember them saying that if a high level tried to go into a lower RvR zone they would become a chicken.
If that's the case...doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of Open World PvP? I mean, RvR are the two opposing realms fighting eachother, right? So it's basically like alliance vs. horde. Why can't the whole Open World have PvP that matters/counts towards RvR? Can I not gain xp off of someone unless I kill them in a specific zone?
Open World PvP/RvR consists of taking over keeps, forts, and then end game city sieges, right? Are these zones themselves separate sectioned off zones? Like say zone A.) is The Great Beyond where you level and farm stuff, but then zone B is where you go to RvR?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is are there specific zones where open PvP/RvR is to happen in concerns with taking over keeps/forts. Because I remember them saying that if a high level tried to go into a lower RvR zone they would become a chicken.
If that's the case...doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of Open World PvP? I mean, RvR are the two opposing realms fighting eachother, right? So it's basically like alliance vs. horde. Why can't the whole Open World have PvP that matters/counts towards RvR? Can I not gain xp off of someone unless I kill them in a specific zone?
This damn thread has seriously confused me....
you get xp for no matter where ou kill someone, open or scenario. The difference is that open pvp is huge, involving alot of time, seiging, cities, etc. Scenarios are like wow battlegrounds, quick, fun minimal reward. Caters to those who only want to do ashort skirmish with little risk/reward.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual. Gaming is a business. Making games has become outrageously expensive. Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business. The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd? Vanguard.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
O noez! I dun get wut I wuntz! Da rest ov da kidz get eet but I dun! Wut? Der r more ov dem? So wut? I WUNTZ WUT I WUNTZ!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
I have nothing against casual players.
But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else. May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point. But history has shown this to be the case.
It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual. Gaming is a business. Making games has become outrageously expensive. Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business. The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd? Vanguard.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
i play EVE for my hardcore fix and wow for my casual fix. But come war, i will probably dropping both, since war has enough of both to get a good mix in.
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
I have nothing against casual players.
But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else. May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point. But history has shown this to be the case.
It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.
man you would be a great politician
Not every game needs to cater to the casual
scenarions suck, open world pvp only
i play aoc and war (lol)
i got nothing against casuals
so tell us, what would you consider a good mix for a game....lets pretend you are a game designer for warhammer, how would you do it oh mr nostradamus of the gaming world?
Scenarios is just more battleground bs with a different name. Up until EA's take over and pr blitz RvR has always meant massive open world pvp. Slowly but ever increasingly they have been changing the definition of RvR to mean something more scenario oriented. In press releases and demonstrations RvR is now about scenarios mostly and nothing is mentioned about open pvp unless someone presses the issue directly. With what over 12 scenarios that we do know about in WAR not including the cityseige scenarios, it seems most likely that, for those of us expecting open world pvp, the rug has been quietly pulled out from under us. Edit: Fixed incorrect spelling in title of post.
Dude...
1) there's over 30 scenarios (gasp)
2) You obviously haven't been following WAR's development closely because you'd know that exactly the opposite from your post is true. Scenarios were initially to have a much larger importance in WAR but due to beta feedback Mythic delayed the game, introduced keep sieges and did almost everything in its power besides kicking them out altogether to make world RvR the focus of the game. WAR got delayed almost 6 months because of this so I'm sure Mythic is quite aware what is one of the biggest turn-ons WAR offers (a hint: NOT scenarios).
3) Scenarios are a part of RvR... as per definition. You may not like them much (and I admit I'm a bit vary as well) but they ARE a part of the RvR system. A non-essential part tbs but a part nevertheless.
Go ahead and state why you don't like them, why do you think they're not so cool of an idea or if they'll destroy the RvR. However, don't go stating things that are obviously not true just in order to emphasize your point.
Comments
It is self explantory.
More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.
simple answer:
don't like it, don't play it.
Me personally i am looking to help my realm any way i can. Wether it being a few mins a day or an all nighter, i now have options of how to best enjoy my LIMITED play time.
Hardcore players are the minority though. It may focus less on the traditional spirit for you, but the majority of players just won't have hours to spend organizing and attacking keeps. I've never understood catering to the minority.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Hardcore players are the minority though. It may focus less on the traditional spirit for you, but the majority of players just won't have hours to spend organizing and attacking keeps. I've never understood catering to the minority.
So the majority of players since they will not have much time to play will be in instances instead? I figured as much.
You can bet I won't be playing it if I see it turning into another WoW. The whole reason I got hyped about this game was because I thought it would be different from WoW (in pvp terms). Without that, there's nothing.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
The way I see it is that Scenarios should be the DESSERT and nothing more. If it's the main course, this game will be an epic fail in my eyes.
You can bet I won't be playing it if I see it turning into another WoW. The whole reason I got hyped about this game was because I thought it would be different from WoW (in pvp terms). Without that, there's nothing.
.... why your even making these statements is beyond me Satatorious. Why this is a worry now is even funnier. Open RvR is the deciding factor adding Keeps & Fortresses made it so last year.
GD seriously people where the hell did you get the idea that Scenarios is the main course? ITS NOT the damn main course and it hasnt' been since LAST YEAR when they SHUT DOWN beta to redesign RvR. Its simply a choice for players who might not want to Open PvP or might not have a whole lot of time on their hands. Its a secondary activity so they can HELP contribute aka HELP is a key word to it not being the MAIN here.
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
True but that still doesn't change the fact that what has been implied, meaning when one hears the word RvR, has changed.
Yes in the starkest terms it means realm vs. realm. But what was implied by that term when it was used for the last 7 years was massive open world fighting. Never before now ,has it referred to battleground, scenarios or whatever you would like to call them.
One thing Mythic has said for the past 7 years was that the reason there were no battlegrounds in the endgame of DAOC was because it detracted from RvR.
And yes there is many aspects beyond just scenarios, but when all of these aspects are pulling from single pool of people on a single server one aspect is gonna suffer while another flourishes. I can safely say we know what happened to world pvp in wow right? Who is to that is not gonna happen here?
World PvP was never a part of WoW. Battlegrounds were always the plan. They just did not make it in at release.
A bunch of 60s fighting just outside Tarren Mill for no real reason and no gain was not anything remotely like the built in RvR of WAR. City seiges were never meant to be part of WoW, as evidenced by the fact that any attempt to do so crashed the servers for the first 2 years. And now, 3 well geared 70's can wipe out all of a capital city.
The market for MMOs has changed. They have to appeal to the people who want a deep RvR system and those who want to participate, but don't have the time to dedicate to Open World RvR. It has nothing to do with EA. A developer simply cannot spend the amount of money that it takes to produce a AAA MMO and appeal only to the hardcore players. As much as I hate EA, the influx of cash probably did more to help WAR than hurt it.
I would also dispute the contention that there is "single pool of people on a single server." There are several different pools of players on any given server. There are a lot of people craving the RvR system and really looking forward to that aspect of WAR. There will be an entirely different group of people who aren't able to fully enjoy the RvR, but want to do what they can to help their side.
Of course, Mythic could screw it up. If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer. Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time. There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though. I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
Oh my god..ROFL wow...ok look
WAR has hardcore activites, casual activities, pvp activities, pve activities, and middle of the ground activities. Most games cover 2 very very few successful games cater to only 1. Even AoC catered to 2 of course shit was broken for both sides so it didn't matter. Just because WAR is an RvR game does't mean it has to exclude potential player bases from EITHER damn side. A good MMO has multiple activities for multiple player pools, a GREAT MMO makes both sides valid without making one better than the other. THIS is MYTHICS goal. They're not 'catering' catering means that one side would get MORE than the other.
Just because they offer an activity for casuals does't make it a catered game. Honestly I know have to consider all further comments from you nothing but flaming whine posts because its obviously the only person you want a game to cater too is yourself and thats what single player games are for.
lol so let me get this straight...the only way one should be able to help in RVR is direct open world pvp? Well if that was the case, lets just get rid of public quests, scenarios, seiging, etc. Lets just make it like planetside. Open world pvp and thats it.
Its amazing actually...the same people who were bitching they took out cities limiting options are the SAME people who are here bitching there are too many options for RVR
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy? That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it? How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly.
Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players. Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base. But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless.
Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
They need to find a balance so that casuals can have fun and hardcores can have fun as well. I think they've found a pretty good balance. I feel casuals should have just as much chance to have fun as hardcores do.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Not all games made need to cater to the casual.
Gaming is a business. Making games has become outrageously expensive. Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business. The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd.
What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd? Vanguard.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
Please tell me how you get this when MOST of the content is all open world? Even the dungeons except for the boss are OPEN. The cities sieges have 1 out of 4 stages that is instanced. Scenarios are limted to 1 per Realm until I believe Teir 3 or 4 I'll have to check the website again. MOST of the game PvE & RvR are al Open world.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
I need a bit of clarification....
Open World PvP/RvR consists of taking over keeps, forts, and then end game city sieges, right? Are these zones themselves separate sectioned off zones? Like say zone A.) is The Great Beyond where you level and farm stuff, but then zone B is where you go to RvR?
I guess what I'm trying to ask is are there specific zones where open PvP/RvR is to happen in concerns with taking over keeps/forts. Because I remember them saying that if a high level tried to go into a lower RvR zone they would become a chicken.
If that's the case...doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of Open World PvP? I mean, RvR are the two opposing realms fighting eachother, right? So it's basically like alliance vs. horde. Why can't the whole Open World have PvP that matters/counts towards RvR? Can I not gain xp off of someone unless I kill them in a specific zone?
This damn thread has seriously confused me....
you get xp for no matter where ou kill someone, open or scenario. The difference is that open pvp is huge, involving alot of time, seiging, cities, etc. Scenarios are like wow battlegrounds, quick, fun minimal reward. Caters to those who only want to do ashort skirmish with little risk/reward.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
O noez! I dun get wut I wuntz! Da rest ov da kidz get eet but I dun! Wut? Der r more ov dem? So wut? I WUNTZ WUT I WUNTZ!
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
I have nothing against casual players.
But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else. May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point. But history has shown this to be the case.
It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.
Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around.
I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace. Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".
i play EVE for my hardcore fix and wow for my casual fix. But come war, i will probably dropping both, since war has enough of both to get a good mix in.
This is exactly the way I see it. Time will only tell. But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.
I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs. When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing: Instances for people to farm RPs. You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only: RPs (and phat lootz by extension). The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point. I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.
I have nothing against casual players.
But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else. May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point. But history has shown this to be the case.
It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.
man you would be a great politician
Not every game needs to cater to the casual
scenarions suck, open world pvp only
i play aoc and war (lol)
i got nothing against casuals
so tell us, what would you consider a good mix for a game....lets pretend you are a game designer for warhammer, how would you do it oh mr nostradamus of the gaming world?
Dude...
1) there's over 30 scenarios (gasp)
2) You obviously haven't been following WAR's development closely because you'd know that exactly the opposite from your post is true. Scenarios were initially to have a much larger importance in WAR but due to beta feedback Mythic delayed the game, introduced keep sieges and did almost everything in its power besides kicking them out altogether to make world RvR the focus of the game. WAR got delayed almost 6 months because of this so I'm sure Mythic is quite aware what is one of the biggest turn-ons WAR offers (a hint: NOT scenarios).
3) Scenarios are a part of RvR... as per definition. You may not like them much (and I admit I'm a bit vary as well) but they ARE a part of the RvR system. A non-essential part tbs but a part nevertheless.
Go ahead and state why you don't like them, why do you think they're not so cool of an idea or if they'll destroy the RvR. However, don't go stating things that are obviously not true just in order to emphasize your point.