I am just happy that SOE has nothing to do with the next game.
I would love to a more social based game, but even an EQ clone game wouldn't be to bad if done right.
This is like irony or a catch-22 or something from the bizarro world...
Happy no SOE involvement, however you are ok with a SOE owned EQ clone?
I was referring to games based on gameplay stylings of Everquest, not the specific game itself. Preset character classes with levels, quests, raids, gear acquisition, etc. Everquest set the foundation for most of the game out right now. However I should have been more clear, sorry for any confusion.
Sidenote: EQ was a fun game before SOE fully took over and started short changing the game, but I digress.
My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Then your point was VERY poorly made.
Since you are the only one who didn't get it I'm not going to lose any sleep over your interpretation.
No one is saying the outcry was the cause of the NGE's failure. they are saying that the outcry was the cause of SWG's failure. The NGE failed because it sucked. That LED TO the outcry, which is both an effect and then became a cause as well. The NGE was the removal of 32 professions and replacing them with nine. It was also fraud. No games have done that and succeeded. You have demonstrated nothing. What "features" are you speaking of? the clicky combat? the only MMO that has used that is Tabula Rasa, and that one isn't doing so well. What other features are part of any new MMOs and how successful are they? You have demonstrated nothing since you provide no concrete examples. man people on these forums are maming less and less sense.
Yet you fork over cash every month directly to the people responsible so you can continue to play a game you hate. Amazing...
To follow your analogy, it's a bit like somebody putting up a physical bulletin board outside Walmart where people can write down their experiences about shopping there, and you can choose to glance at it or not before going into the store. How many people would see it, stay for a minute to read, and turn around and head to Target? As far as SOE goes, I can tell you more than one person has. And anyone in the next generation who feels Sony or SOE is a quality brand has either ignored the negative press or hasn't taken the time to glance at that bulletin board.
You described ebay perfectly
I am not sure about viral marketing and the target demographics nation-wide, however I can verify my position on said target demographic ignoring bad publicity.
My youngest brother (under 30) has many interests. He's well educated with master's degree in commerce nad is currently in a junior executive position on the fast track to something great. This is by day. By night, he and his group of day friends become punk sk8boarders that would make Tony Hawk proud. He subscribes to PC Gamer, Maximum PC, Blender and Maxim. He just bought his first house. He was looking for a kickass home theater system. After due dillegence, he went with Sony which boasted mid-high reviews and a hefty price tag. My point being, he DID his research and settled on the name even though he knew Samsung systems were better priced and higher reviewed in general. My brother isn't an anomality. His entire friend base is of the same opinion, as are their friends and their whole Facebook group. This is the way it will always be. Viral marketing will never stop people from doing the 'in' thing.
The 60's had hula hoops.
The 70's had 8-tracks.
The 80's had Micheal Jackson.
The 90's had... something I think.
The new millenium had Sony, WoW, Blu-Ray, PS3, X-Box 360, etc.
No matter whether I stand outside the Sony store and tell people not to buy Sony because they ruined my game, or I stand outside Walmart and tell them the eggs inside were purchased from a farmer in Wisconsin by using scare tactics that forced the farmer out of business, the end result will be the same... I won't affect anyone set on buying what they want.
Google "Sony LCD TV" and see how many references pop up regarding what SOE did to SWG players. For that matter, Google "SOE Vanguard" or "SOE Pirates" and see how many pages you have to look at before you see one negative comment about SOE or Sony.
Unless I am specifically interested in who hates what, I will never come across negative information because Google ranks pages based on number of hits and negative SOE pages don't come close when someone is looking for a review on Pirates of the Burning Sea or Matrix Online.
Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise. 95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market.
Good post... short and sweet and to the point. I wish I could abbreviate my ramblings to something so concise. There are not enough people to make a difference that alters a market and it is a lot of large egos that believe they do.
those silent ones that moved on.... you REALLY think that when games or gaming comes up in topic that they won't take a shot at NGE if it comes? really? they are silent on forums ya...but word of mouth...is LONG and STRONG my friend. ...and they may have moved on, but they're NOT silent. When a person feels they got ripped off, they tell ppl to avoid the business they got ripped off from. ...always. (Unless hard earned cash means nothing to them, in which case they don't fit the demographic either) So you are saying that gamers who played pre-NGE have a dislike for Sony and won't touch their products again? To this I say LAWL. I recently handed out 40 product keys for 60 free days of EQ2 play time. Of the 40 keys, 10 were given to vocal SOE bashers (you know who you are ) who wanted to give SOE a second chance and not have to pay for anything. The free 60 day trial is still going on, however 5 of the 10 SOE bashers have already subscribed to the game. Are they still mad at the company for ruining SWG? Apparently not. Giving away something for free can always tell you how serious people are in their beliefs and values (no offence EQ2 subscribers... thanks for the free months ). These are the "silent" ones now.
I don't know if we'll every now just how many subs came and went...Soe keeps that tightly guarded secret...But from the original swg boards...a post showed that they hit the panic button after NGE...WAY more ppl jumped ship than they ever dreamed of.... I'm sure somone can produce the post that backs that up...I don't post there ever since NGE. (I remain silent there.....but not here...and not in the world I am in either) I work with a ton of IT ppl...and we all talk game every day...and they all knew about what swg turned into before i ever met them...how? word of mouth. I played SWG in a large guild on Intrepid and quit just before the CU along with about 50 of my guild. The reason we quit was not because of the CU/NGE but because we had seen all and done all that needed doing. When we began soloing the Nightsister encampments, Elders and Krayt Dragons, there seemed no need for grouping. SWG, while a great sandbox game, left nothing to be desired because of the uber strength of doc buffs. The game quickly turned into a solo game. I resubscribed after the CU and after each expansion however all SOE really needed to fix were the variables with which the resources by which buffs and weapons/armor were created were toned down. The NGE came about because there were thousands of players like me who were looking for a better challenge. Unfortunately it was a bad decision, I agree. I don't think it was the reason for 250k cancelled subscriptions though. I think if SOE would have left things the way they were they would have seen a slow trickle of players leaving until WoW which would have shown a giant torrent of players leaving. NGE gets the bad rep but players were already tired of the 2 year old Star Wars universe... much like the WoW players are now in-between waiting for expansions.
http://buzzcanuck.typepad.com/agentwildfire/2006/01/top_11_killer_s.html he has lots of sources listed ...reputable sources. Word of mouth.. 6% is only online... the biggest chunk is person to person contact.... so while you see "a ton" of "whiners" on here...we only statistically are 6% of the totol of swg vets spreading the word...nice Faxx(er)
BAH!
Stats, Shmats!
All stats are made up anyways... 95% of all people know that
Seriously though, informative stuff. Thanks for the link.
Gamers lost, SOE lost as they are the pinnacle of what Not to do in the industry, and Lucas lost (and has been losing) because of the treatment of the Star Wars IP. While we may, as vets, claim some small victory because the vast majority of people feel the same as us about the NGE and SOE, all in all everyone lost.
I really don't think LucasArts lost anything. They sold their IP usage to SOE for a fee and collected that fee. The royalties from the IP's use are probably not even as high as my kid makes delivering the newspaper but they still get something in the way of royalties. Angry SWG Vets don't affect my kid from wanting Star Wars toys of playing Lego Star Wars. The SWG fiasco was just that, a fiasco. Lucas still sleeps on a bed of money that his servants add to every morning. He'll be doing even better once the CGI Star Wars movie and series come out and I'll benefit as well because all my old Star wars toys from the 70's will increase in value again.
Thanks LucasArts for keeping Star Wars alive. SOE... thanks for the station pass.
Originally posted by vet-in-exile Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by vet-in-exile My point was using the death of a child as an analogy is dumb because it creates unnecessary emotional responses and doesn't further either party's argument.
Then your point was VERY poorly made.
Since you are the only one who didn't get it I'm not going to lose any sleep over your interpretation.
Oh I got it -- I am also recognizing it was bad form.
Originally posted by vet-in-exile Originally posted by Fishermage No one is saying the outcry was the cause of the NGE's failure. they are saying that the outcry was the cause of SWG's failure. The NGE failed because it sucked. That LED TO the outcry, which is both an effect and then became a cause as well. The NGE was the removal of 32 professions and replacing them with nine. It was also fraud. No games have done that and succeeded. You have demonstrated nothing. What "features" are you speaking of? the clicky combat? the only MMO that has used that is Tabula Rasa, and that one isn't doing so well. What other features are part of any new MMOs and how successful are they? You have demonstrated nothing since you provide no concrete examples. man people on these forums are maming less and less sense.
Yet you fork over cash every month directly to the people responsible so you can continue to play a game you hate. Amazing... when have I ever said I hate the game?
Comments
This is like irony or a catch-22 or something from the bizarro world...
Happy no SOE involvement, however you are ok with a SOE owned EQ clone?
I was referring to games based on gameplay stylings of Everquest, not the specific game itself. Preset character classes with levels, quests, raids, gear acquisition, etc. Everquest set the foundation for most of the game out right now. However I should have been more clear, sorry for any confusion.
Sidenote: EQ was a fun game before SOE fully took over and started short changing the game, but I digress.
Since you are the only one who didn't get it I'm not going to lose any sleep over your interpretation.
Yet you fork over cash every month directly to the people responsible so you can continue to play a game you hate. Amazing...
You described ebay perfectly
I am not sure about viral marketing and the target demographics nation-wide, however I can verify my position on said target demographic ignoring bad publicity.
My youngest brother (under 30) has many interests. He's well educated with master's degree in commerce nad is currently in a junior executive position on the fast track to something great. This is by day. By night, he and his group of day friends become punk sk8boarders that would make Tony Hawk proud. He subscribes to PC Gamer, Maximum PC, Blender and Maxim. He just bought his first house. He was looking for a kickass home theater system. After due dillegence, he went with Sony which boasted mid-high reviews and a hefty price tag. My point being, he DID his research and settled on the name even though he knew Samsung systems were better priced and higher reviewed in general. My brother isn't an anomality. His entire friend base is of the same opinion, as are their friends and their whole Facebook group. This is the way it will always be. Viral marketing will never stop people from doing the 'in' thing.
The 60's had hula hoops.
The 70's had 8-tracks.
The 80's had Micheal Jackson.
The 90's had... something I think.
The new millenium had Sony, WoW, Blu-Ray, PS3, X-Box 360, etc.
No matter whether I stand outside the Sony store and tell people not to buy Sony because they ruined my game, or I stand outside Walmart and tell them the eggs inside were purchased from a farmer in Wisconsin by using scare tactics that forced the farmer out of business, the end result will be the same... I won't affect anyone set on buying what they want.
Google "Sony LCD TV" and see how many references pop up regarding what SOE did to SWG players. For that matter, Google "SOE Vanguard" or "SOE Pirates" and see how many pages you have to look at before you see one negative comment about SOE or Sony.
Unless I am specifically interested in who hates what, I will never come across negative information because Google ranks pages based on number of hits and negative SOE pages don't come close when someone is looking for a review on Pirates of the Burning Sea or Matrix Online.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Good post... short and sweet and to the point. I wish I could abbreviate my ramblings to something so concise. There are not enough people to make a difference that alters a market and it is a lot of large egos that believe they do.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
BAH!
Stats, Shmats!
All stats are made up anyways... 95% of all people know that
Seriously though, informative stuff. Thanks for the link.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
I really don't think LucasArts lost anything. They sold their IP usage to SOE for a fee and collected that fee. The royalties from the IP's use are probably not even as high as my kid makes delivering the newspaper but they still get something in the way of royalties. Angry SWG Vets don't affect my kid from wanting Star Wars toys of playing Lego Star Wars. The SWG fiasco was just that, a fiasco. Lucas still sleeps on a bed of money that his servants add to every morning. He'll be doing even better once the CGI Star Wars movie and series come out and I'll benefit as well because all my old Star wars toys from the 70's will increase in value again.
Thanks LucasArts for keeping Star Wars alive. SOE... thanks for the station pass.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
Since you are the only one who didn't get it I'm not going to lose any sleep over your interpretation.
Oh I got it -- I am also recognizing it was bad form.
fishermage.blogspot.com
when have I ever said I hate the game?
fishermage.blogspot.com