Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live?
LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live? LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Either way SWG was released broken and so was the NGE. Actual game play was never really communicated to the Star Wars fan because there was no marketing in the main stream. If SOE and Lucas Arts would have released a SWG MMO that was truly ready then things would have been better off. But MMO's were not ready for prime time in the mainstream pop culture of the planet when SWG was released.
I talk to members of the 501st and "some" have never heard of SWG. I can see the OP's point but I have to say the reaction of the SWG community was based on the actual game and the negative decisions that impacted fans because the game was broken in open beta and never fixed for release. It is really a shame. I do have to point out that Dead Meats Production did fix a ton of issues with the game but the targeting was never fixed. There are still issues with that engine that have never and will never be fixed.
If I am at fault for pointing out the fact that this product has been frakked up since release so be it. But the NGE was a stupid idea. You never, never, never, crap on your existing customer base. You build on it. Have you ever seen SWG in the Star Wars newsletter? Have you ever seen Lucas Arts plug the crap out of SWG>? They are at fault here because they are the foundation of SWG much like SOE.
I say nail it shut and we move on because now that it is going away everyone will say how much they were hoping it would turn around or will try to save it. Lucas Arts is about money. SOE is about money. The customer was screwed here folks. I am happy with my divorce of SWG and I have found my hottie rebound baby!!!!!!
Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live? LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
It is SOE's responsibility to take all the flack, I get the same thing the games I work on, at no point are you ever allowed to even suggest that the license owner is responsible for anything bad. That's just part of the crap that comes with being the front man.
Smed admitted in his blog that "sometimes you just have to do what your partner wants you to do", sure SOE developed the NGE, but it was at LA's request. Anyone who thinks that LA are to blame are just delusional, they've produced more crap cash in games than any other game developer out there.
Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live? LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
It is SOE's responsibility to take all the flack, I get the same thing the games I work on, at no point are you ever allowed to even suggest that the license owner is responsible for anything bad. That's just part of the crap that comes with being the front man.
Smed admitted in his blog that "sometimes you just have to do what your partner wants you to do", sure SOE developed the NGE, but it was at LA's request. Anyone who thinks that LA are to blame are just delusional, they've produced more crap cash in games than any other game developer out there.
LA wanted the game to live up to the name it carried , can you blame them for that ?
It was SOE that created the NGE , So its only fitting to conclude,They were responsible for the impact it had on their service.
However ,blaming LA is not of of bounds , They had to approve of the NGE somewhere along the line.
But it was SOE who was supposed to be the experts on the subject , Not LA .SOE are just better at selling an idea than they are at impelmenting it obviously.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
atually, we know now that it was mostly SOE's fault. The game was failing due to SOE's mismanagement and inability to deliver a quality game. LA said fix it, SOE came up with the NGE. LA then approved of it, and the rest is history.
This has been admitted by Dan Rubenfeld, Jeff Freeman, and Brenlo of SOE. While yes. LA is to blame for trusting SOE, SOE is by far mostly to blame.
The players are not to blame at all. That is simply an absurdity. Blaming the customers for a business failure is, well, there really isn't a word that explains how silly that idea is.
I completely agree. The player base had a lot more to do with the undesirable changes than the supposed "schemers" at SOE and LA. I'll even go one step further - I blame the players of every cookie-cutter MMO out there for the madness of the NGE. Why in the hell would SOE/LA make such steep changes to the game? They anticipated higher sub numbers if the game was overly-simplified to a level seen in WoW. If MMO gamers weren't satisfied with the **** that these developers push out nowadays, we wouldn't be talking about the NGE, and we wouldn't have a SWG Veteran Refuge. Too bad that they are.
well for some of it I agree.
The one thing that I know was player related was the complaints about jedi being unobtainable. Players were doing what players seem to like to do in these things. The pointed at the box and it said something like everyone can become a jedi blah blah blah. The yelled things like false advertising and fraud etc etc. Over time jedi became easier and easier as they kept yelling. The opening up of the entier system at the CU was I know from player pressure. I remember it well and that is about when I left hehe because I had just managed to open a slot the hard way but I know the forums and what they were like and it was nasty.
The rest I dont know I ran from the forums quickly there due to the flammage and noise and screams. The screams are not really much different now and match from these boards and other boards. Its the same thing. They caved under pressure because of the claims about making jedi unobtainable for the average player and see *pointing at the box* it says here become a jedi and "I want to be one" . Me I was opening my slot for the added lots for crafting lol that's it I had no interest in jedi.
So I dont know about all of it i mean some of it was done without really knowing who said what to whom, but the jedi thing I remember quite clearly. That indeed was from player pressure and people screaming and waving that finger with legal words on it. We have to remember that a lot of people threaten to sue at the drop of a hat these days. If you smile sideways they want to sue you if you dont do exactly what they want they want to sue you. Legal threats are becoming and have become pretty common place to the point where in many cases people simply stop listening.
Originally posted by bobfish Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live? LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
You are simply making things up. They did not "want it," they wanted the game to be successful. SOE wanted it, and convinced LA that it would make the game successful. LA didn't push it through, SOE convinced LA that it would save the game. LA then accepted it.
Why would people keep spreading known falsehoods on these issues. Everything you are claiming has been disproven by the SOE people involved at the time. To keep bringing up the "it came from LA" lie is simply propoganda. Why would anyone want to continue to propogate known lies?
I agree with the Original poster to a certain extent. But to take the Lions share from sony is out of this world. In the real world, people want what they want, and to hell with everyone else. It's up to the powers at be to do what's best for the masses. You, and I both know you could not have perma death on these servers for Jedi, when infact the Servers were soo damn unstable. The servers crashed like twice a week on chilastra where I played. The Thing is Sony forgot to put Caps on Jedi Players they should have done what was best for the game.
LA was, and is in the business of making money, you almost can't blame them for being swooned with the thought of millions of players paying 15 dollars a month. Infact I can see the meeting now, SOE in there power suits with Pink ties (because their Educated). George Lucas Sitting across in a fleece sweater looking like a mountain man. Graphs are everywhere, guys are shucking and jiving. Sony says this is your playerbase now ( . ) (the dot is the player base) . this is what it will be (HUUUUGGGGEEEE). we have focus tested. all our tests indicate they don't want to be crafters, or Scouts, or squad leaders, they want to be Luke Skywalker, and Boba Fett, and Han solo. The players in game have even said this. They are begging for the NGE. George Lucas Says GO FOR IT!!!!!!! Take the rest of the day off. and they all left Smiling, and rubbing their greedy lil hands together. And the NGE was born
MikeMB. Yep I was there and am still there. I'm a Fellucan pvp'er since launch. But I'm on the good side of it. Never played a red char was always the pk hunter...
Again I think it was a combination of things but it puzzles me (well not really I know it's blind hatred) that the Vet*H8rs don't recall it.
Maybe it was because they were inexperienced mmorpg players and the "I can't win" people but whenever I went to the forums I saw the writing on the wall. There wasn't even rationale to their claims. Some of their claims were self contradicting.
Here's an example; I thought this was Star Wars, it's pokeman online "Everybody" is a CH and if you're not you can't pvp!! NERF CH !!
Now wait- if "everybody" is a CH then wouldn't it be balanced? If everybody is a CH then how could one not be a CH?
Typical I can't win with my profession against (insert) their profession.
It's like pvp'ers without a combat Doc or combat medic in their group. You were doomed. But nerf this or nerf that because you choose to not maximize your fighting power?
Remember the /citywarn, /cityban debacle? I posted on the SOE forums that it was a completely player controlled issue to not get griefed this way. It was very simple. CLONE at an NPC city!!! I got flamed off the boards there that no it was an unstoppable griefing tool, rofl
I remember a day in UO when a friend and guildmate wanted so and so booted from the guild because he was standing at the healers repeat killing new rez's in faction fighting.
He actually told me, So and so killed me like 16 times in a row!! I simply asked why would you repeat res in front of him and why didn't you just go to another healer?
His reply was, it's the closest healer and I wanted to get back ot the fight as fast as I could. I then asked if running to the next healer would have been faster than getting res killed 16 times?
He said , That's not the point, he SHOULDN'T be doing that!!!
Many a Vet has taught a newer player tough lessons in PvP in all games.
But in some cases the so called griefed player WAS in control of the situation.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Originally posted by Jatwhal MikeMB. Yep I was there and am still there. I'm a Fellucan pvp'er since launch. But I'm on the good side of it. Never played a red char was always the pk hunter... Again I think it was a combination of things but it puzzles me (well not really I know it's blind hatred) that the Vet*H8rs don't recall it. Maybe it was because they were inexperienced mmorpg players and the "I can't win" people but whenever I went to the forums I saw the writing on the wall. There wasn't even rationale to their claims. Some of their claims were self contradicting. Here's an example; I thought this was Star Wars, it's pokeman online "Everybody" is a CH and if you're not you can't pvp!! NERF CH !! Now wait- if "everybody" is a CH then wouldn't it be balanced? If everybody is a CH then how could one not be a CH? Typical I can't win with my profession against (insert) their profession. It's like pvp'ers without a combat Doc or combat medic in their group. You were doomed. But nerf this or nerf that because you choose to not maximize your fighting power? Remember the /citywarn, /cityban debacle? I posted on the SOE forums that it was a completely player controlled issue to not get griefed this way. It was very simple. CLONE at an NPC city!!! I got flamed off the boards there that no it was an unstoppable griefing tool, rofl I remember a day in UO when a friend and guildmate wanted so and so booted from the guild because he was standing at the healers repeat killing new rez's in faction fighting. He actually told me, So and so killed me like 16 times in a row!! I simply asked why would you repeat res in front of him and why didn't you just go to another healer? His reply was, it's the closest healer and I wanted to get back ot the fight as fast as I could. I then asked if running to the next healer would have been faster than getting res killed 16 times? He said , That's not the point, he SHOULDN'T be doing that!!! Many a Vet has taught a newer player tough lessons in PvP in all games. But in some cases the so called griefed player WAS in control of the situation.
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault.
Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
Sorry this thread fails, " The Players" never even entered into the equation.
They didnt?
They didnt have "sit downs" in zones when they didnt like something...causing servers to crash? Thats funny, news like that always flew over onto the EQ servers I was on, or sites like FoH.
Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt of been happy with the credit dupe bans...but folks still were disrupting service to those whom might not of been along for the ride(that is read they didnt have issues atm). There is a way to handle such matters, crashing servers is not it.
You see even unto this very day, when an MMO has an exploit blow up huge on a game, the company that runs said MMO has to do whatever they can to save their in-game economy. It isnt just SWG that bans accounts, then adds em back in when the company checks the accounts out....allowing the legit players back into game.
Another thing I hjave seen over the years is that even when something was wrong/balance breaking, and SOE would want to correct it, the players would revolt on boards etc to epic proportions. That was some other things I heard about during the time on various sites/in EQ.
I have watched the train wreck in the forum here since just after the NGE(Followed the OBs when NGE launched, until they had banned most the vets).
Everything I have seen first hand, or read about pertaining to SWG, has been nothing short of outright childish behavior by a number of the players.
That isnt to dismiss SOE/LA on their part...they swapped game to NGE with no warning/input from community, released a POS, etc etc
That still doesnt excuse how some have acted, and still act, even till this very day.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Originally posted by Moaky07 Originally posted by BushMonkey Sorry this thread fails, " The Players" never even entered into the equation.
They didnt? They didnt have "sit downs" in zones when they didnt like something...causing servers to crash? Thats funny, news like that always flew over onto the EQ servers I was on, or sites like FoH. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt of been happy with the credit dupe bans...but folks still were disrupting service to those whom might not of been along for the ride(that is read they didnt have issues atm). There is a way to handle such matters, crashing servers is not it. You see even unto this very day, when an MMO has an exploit blow up huge on a game, the company that runs said MMO has to do whatever they can to save their in-game economy. It isnt just SWG that bans accounts, then adds em back in when the company checks the accounts out....allowing the legit players back into game. Another thing I hjave seen over the years is that even when something was wrong/balance breaking, and SOE would want to correct it, the players would revolt on boards etc to epic proportions. That was some other things I heard about during the time on various sites/in EQ. I have watched the train wreck in the forum here since just after the NGE(Followed the OBs when NGE launched, until they had banned most the vets). Everything I have seen first hand, or read about pertaining to SWG, has been nothing short of outright childish behavior by a number of the players. That isnt to dismiss SOE/LA on their part...they swapped game to NGE with no warning/input from community, released a POS, etc etc That still doesnt excuse how some have acted, and still act, even till this very day.
None of that has any relevance to the idea of whose fault is it that the game failed. When a business venture fails, it is the people that run that business that are at fault. By definition the customers are not to blame. how customers behave has no bearing on that equation at all.
It may be an interesting discussion, as a separate, sociological discussion, but it has nothing to do with blame and failure.
that is always 100% the fault of th business and the people running it.
In this case it is mostly SOE's (for making it happen through mismanagement, other mistakes and a lack of business ethics) and partially LA's (for not doing their homework, for trusting SOE to know what they were doing, and allowing it to happen).
You are a master-de-bater Fish...not even gonna go there with ya.
You can take someones meaning and twist it six ways to Sunday. Impressive skill as far as wordplay goes, yet it still doesnt change things in reality. The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game.
Yep that word twisting is handy...reason why lawyers get paid the big bucks to get criminals out of trouble. They know how to re-arrange things to their advantage. When everything else fails, they throw down to semantics...or that nice little chat we had...about phalacies.
So list me every broken rule in the book of arguements ya wish...it still doesnt change that SWg was perceived, by many of us not playing, as having a fracked up player base. And YES...I am sure it changed some folks mind when it come to the issue of "should I try this game out?".
Do us both a favor though...take a look at what is going on right now...and see what some of your fellow "vets" have been about all along. The ones I have prodded all this time.
They are easy to spot...they keep making flame threads on the main general brds pretty much attacking everyone on this site.
You need to realize the folks, whose company you keep, arent exactly angels in all this.
Whatever happened with SOE has nothing to do with Bioware...yet already the fight has begun. And what is up with them always throwing mental insults at anyone that didnt like SWG...or accusing them of being SOE employees/whatever else comes to their minds?
I can tell ya already...before I ever sign up for KOTOR online(if there will indeed even be one), it wont be until I know where the "vets" have settled on the various servers.
That way I can avoid em like the plague.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Originally posted by Moaky07 You are a master-de-bater Fish...not even gonna go there with ya. You can take someones meaning and twist it six ways to Sunday. Impressive skill as far as wordplay goes, yet it still doesnt change things in reality. The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game. Yep that word twisting is handy...reason why lawyers get paid the big bucks to get criminals out of trouble. They know how to re-arrange things to their advantage. When everything else fails, they throw down to semantics...or that nice little chat we had...about phalacies. So list me every broken rule in the book of arguements ya wish...it still doesnt change that SWg was perceived, by many of us not playing, as having a fracked up player base. And YES...I am sure it changed some folks mind when it come to the issue of "should I try this game out?". Do us both a favor though...take a look at what is going on right now...and see what some of your fellow "vets" have been about all along. The ones I have prodded all this time. They are easy to spot...they keep making flame threads on the main general brds pretty much attacking everyone on this site. You need to realize the folks, whose company you keep, arent exactly angels in all this. Whatever happened with SOE has nothing to do with Bioware...yet already the fight has begun. And what is up with them always throwing mental insults at anyone that didnt like SWG...or accusing them of being SOE employees/whatever else comes to their minds? I can tell ya already...before I ever sign up for KOTOR online(if there will indeed even be one), it wont be until I know where the "vets" have settled on the various servers. That way I can avoid em like the plague.
so in other words, since you can't actually win an argument with me, you attack me by complimenting my skills, and imply I am twisting things and other nonsense. You then throw in more irrelevancies like guilt by association.
Originally posted by vet-in-exile The players are responsible for the failure of SWG? Sounds like a viral marketing campaign to me! SOE is getting really desperate...
First they blamed Raph Koster. then they blamed WoW, then they blamed the players. Shifting blame is pretty much the standard SOE tactic throughout this whole debacle.
The players are responsible for the failure of SWG? Sounds like a viral marketing campaign to me!
SOE is getting really desperate...
First they blamed Raph Koster. then they blamed WoW, then they blamed the players. Shifting blame is pretty much the standard SOE tactic throughout this whole debacle.
The leak that Bioware's MMO is in fact going to be Star Wars has riled up a few folks it seems. I think we'll be seeing a renewed effort to absolve SOE of any responsibility from here on out. They would have gotten away with it to, if it wasn't for those meddling facts and that dog...
Jokes on you pal...your "partners in crime" are tripping over themselves with this news being released. Frantic that they wont get the "precious" that has been craved for 2.5 yrs now.
Folks still going on about "We will get classic servers anyday". Yes indeed...any day. Shall I link the posts...or are you capable of finding them? Must admit...I dont think it has been this frantic since when the NGE was first dropped.
Now where have we heard the line about "any day" I wonder? Oh thats right...we have heard it for 2.5 yrs now.
Yep Fish...you twist words great. The master de-bater supreme.
Doesnt change facts...no "precious"...not for the last 2.5+ yrs...nor in the future. Doesnt change the bad rep a segment of the vet crowd has...and is making worse currently.
And in the quest for the "precious", we are going to see a lot of heads rolling off MMORPG very soon with all the attacks being made towards those of us who feel the "precious" was a POS.
Keep those fallacies sharpened Fish...that and 50 cents will get ya a cup of coffee.
What it wont do is get the "precious" back. Gotta luv it.
Good day to ya
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I knew you wouldnt resist the urge. Bait taken. Jokes on you pal...your "partners in crime" are tripping over themselves with this news being released. Frantic that they wont get the "precious" that has been craved for 2.5 yrs now. Folks still going on about "We will get classic servers anyday". Yes indeed...any day. Shall I link the posts...or are you capable of finding them? Must admit...I dont think it has been this frantic since when the NGE was first dropped. Now where have we heard the line about "any day" I wonder? Oh thats right...we have heard it for 2.5 yrs now. Yep Fish...you twist words great. The master de-bater supreme. Doesnt change facts...no "precious"...not for the last 2.5+ yrs...nor in the future. Doesnt change the bad rep a segment of the vet crowd has...and is making worse currently. And in the quest for the "precious", we are going to see a lot of heads rolling off MMORPG very soon with all the attacks being made towards those of us who feel the "precious" was a POS. Keep those fallacies sharpened Fish...that and 50 cents will get ya a cup of coffee. What it wont do is get the "precious" back. Gotta luv it.
Good day to ya
What the heck are you rambling about?
You make as much sense as Smedley talking about how Monthly subscription in MMORPG's are failing..
I knew you wouldnt resist the urge. Bait taken. Jokes on you pal...your "partners in crime" are tripping over themselves with this news being released. Frantic that they wont get the "precious" that has been craved for 2.5 yrs now. Folks still going on about "We will get classic servers anyday". Yes indeed...any day. Shall I link the posts...or are you capable of finding them? Must admit...I dont think it has been this frantic since when the NGE was first dropped. Now where have we heard the line about "any day" I wonder? Oh thats right...we have heard it for 2.5 yrs now. Yep Fish...you twist words great. The master de-bater supreme. Doesnt change facts...no "precious"...not for the last 2.5+ yrs...nor in the future. Doesnt change the bad rep a segment of the vet crowd has...and is making worse currently. And in the quest for the "precious", we are going to see a lot of heads rolling off MMORPG very soon with all the attacks being made towards those of us who feel the "precious" was a POS. Keep those fallacies sharpened Fish...that and 50 cents will get ya a cup of coffee. What it wont do is get the "precious" back. Gotta luv it.
Good day to ya
I see wolfmann says the same thing...but what the heck are you talking about?
If you have to ask Wolf, you either havent been following the vet brds...or you didnt read the thread.
Everything is self evident.
And Fish... for the record...you took a strawman and run with it. I knew if I threw up a distraction, you would miss it entirely.
My stated position was that a section of the vet population has a bad rep. It added to why folks didnt wanna play SWG. You tried to turn it into a "I stand by SOE" or "it doesnt matter cause I said so"....which is not contained in my posts. I gave far majority credit to SOE/LA for their part.
I pointed out negatives about a segment of the vet population...and you offered nothing besides how "great" you are.
I know I know...there is a special Fish gets a second chance "get out of jail" squared...to the third degree with honors type rule thing. Please quote it for us...then respond to my actual statements this time.
Vanity...it is some individual's downfall. Next time... stick to the post before you put your shoulder out of socket from "patting yourself on the back" or "front... or whatever it is you masters do.
And as I said before....have a great day cause I dont think things could be peachier around MMORPG AFAIAC.
O and for my long time fan out there, who has made a habit the last 2 yrs of attempting to get me banned...I got last nights warning you submitted rescinded. I see you arent posting today....guess you werent so lucky.
Next time ,might wanna not report me, when you are the one throwing specific insults a persons way.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Comments
Do you really think SOE would've put the work, effort, time and money into the Trials expansion if they were so sure NGE was going live?
LucasArts wanted the NGE, they pushed it through, it's their fault. All the power sits with LucasArts on every Star Wars game, the developer has no say.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Either way SWG was released broken and so was the NGE. Actual game play was never really communicated to the Star Wars fan because there was no marketing in the main stream. If SOE and Lucas Arts would have released a SWG MMO that was truly ready then things would have been better off. But MMO's were not ready for prime time in the mainstream pop culture of the planet when SWG was released.
I talk to members of the 501st and "some" have never heard of SWG. I can see the OP's point but I have to say the reaction of the SWG community was based on the actual game and the negative decisions that impacted fans because the game was broken in open beta and never fixed for release. It is really a shame. I do have to point out that Dead Meats Production did fix a ton of issues with the game but the targeting was never fixed. There are still issues with that engine that have never and will never be fixed.
If I am at fault for pointing out the fact that this product has been frakked up since release so be it. But the NGE was a stupid idea. You never, never, never, crap on your existing customer base. You build on it. Have you ever seen SWG in the Star Wars newsletter? Have you ever seen Lucas Arts plug the crap out of SWG>? They are at fault here because they are the foundation of SWG much like SOE.
I say nail it shut and we move on because now that it is going away everyone will say how much they were hoping it would turn around or will try to save it. Lucas Arts is about money. SOE is about money. The customer was screwed here folks. I am happy with my divorce of SWG and I have found my hottie rebound baby!!!!!!
Sorry this thread fails, " The Players" never even entered into the equation.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
It is SOE's responsibility to take all the flack, I get the same thing the games I work on, at no point are you ever allowed to even suggest that the license owner is responsible for anything bad. That's just part of the crap that comes with being the front man.
Smed admitted in his blog that "sometimes you just have to do what your partner wants you to do", sure SOE developed the NGE, but it was at LA's request. Anyone who thinks that LA are to blame are just delusional, they've produced more crap cash in games than any other game developer out there.
For anyone who needs a catch up check out the guide in my sig .
It is SOE's responsibility to take all the flack, I get the same thing the games I work on, at no point are you ever allowed to even suggest that the license owner is responsible for anything bad. That's just part of the crap that comes with being the front man.
Smed admitted in his blog that "sometimes you just have to do what your partner wants you to do", sure SOE developed the NGE, but it was at LA's request. Anyone who thinks that LA are to blame are just delusional, they've produced more crap cash in games than any other game developer out there.
LA wanted the game to live up to the name it carried , can you blame them for that ?
It was SOE that created the NGE , So its only fitting to conclude,They were responsible for the impact it had on their service.
However ,blaming LA is not of of bounds , They had to approve of the NGE somewhere along the line.
But it was SOE who was supposed to be the experts on the subject , Not LA .SOE are just better at selling an idea than they are at impelmenting it obviously.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
atually, we know now that it was mostly SOE's fault. The game was failing due to SOE's mismanagement and inability to deliver a quality game. LA said fix it, SOE came up with the NGE. LA then approved of it, and the rest is history.
This has been admitted by Dan Rubenfeld, Jeff Freeman, and Brenlo of SOE. While yes. LA is to blame for trusting SOE, SOE is by far mostly to blame.
The players are not to blame at all. That is simply an absurdity. Blaming the customers for a business failure is, well, there really isn't a word that explains how silly that idea is.
fishermage.blogspot.com
well for some of it I agree.
The one thing that I know was player related was the complaints about jedi being unobtainable. Players were doing what players seem to like to do in these things. The pointed at the box and it said something like everyone can become a jedi blah blah blah. The yelled things like false advertising and fraud etc etc. Over time jedi became easier and easier as they kept yelling. The opening up of the entier system at the CU was I know from player pressure. I remember it well and that is about when I left hehe because I had just managed to open a slot the hard way but I know the forums and what they were like and it was nasty.
The rest I dont know I ran from the forums quickly there due to the flammage and noise and screams. The screams are not really much different now and match from these boards and other boards. Its the same thing. They caved under pressure because of the claims about making jedi unobtainable for the average player and see *pointing at the box* it says here become a jedi and "I want to be one" . Me I was opening my slot for the added lots for crafting lol that's it I had no interest in jedi.
So I dont know about all of it i mean some of it was done without really knowing who said what to whom, but the jedi thing I remember quite clearly. That indeed was from player pressure and people screaming and waving that finger with legal words on it. We have to remember that a lot of people threaten to sue at the drop of a hat these days. If you smile sideways they want to sue you if you dont do exactly what they want they want to sue you. Legal threats are becoming and have become pretty common place to the point where in many cases people simply stop listening.
You are simply making things up. They did not "want it," they wanted the game to be successful. SOE wanted it, and convinced LA that it would make the game successful. LA didn't push it through, SOE convinced LA that it would save the game. LA then accepted it.
Why would people keep spreading known falsehoods on these issues. Everything you are claiming has been disproven by the SOE people involved at the time. To keep bringing up the "it came from LA" lie is simply propoganda. Why would anyone want to continue to propogate known lies?
Amazing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I agree with the Original poster to a certain extent. But to take the Lions share from sony is out of this world. In the real world, people want what they want, and to hell with everyone else. It's up to the powers at be to do what's best for the masses. You, and I both know you could not have perma death on these servers for Jedi, when infact the Servers were soo damn unstable. The servers crashed like twice a week on chilastra where I played. The Thing is Sony forgot to put Caps on Jedi Players they should have done what was best for the game.
LA was, and is in the business of making money, you almost can't blame them for being swooned with the thought of millions of players paying 15 dollars a month. Infact I can see the meeting now, SOE in there power suits with Pink ties (because their Educated). George Lucas Sitting across in a fleece sweater looking like a mountain man. Graphs are everywhere, guys are shucking and jiving. Sony says this is your playerbase now ( . ) (the dot is the player base) . this is what it will be (HUUUUGGGGEEEE). we have focus tested. all our tests indicate they don't want to be crafters, or Scouts, or squad leaders, they want to be Luke Skywalker, and Boba Fett, and Han solo. The players in game have even said this. They are begging for the NGE. George Lucas Says GO FOR IT!!!!!!! Take the rest of the day off. and they all left Smiling, and rubbing their greedy lil hands together. And the NGE was born
MikeMB. Yep I was there and am still there. I'm a Fellucan pvp'er since launch. But I'm on the good side of it. Never played a red char was always the pk hunter...
Again I think it was a combination of things but it puzzles me (well not really I know it's blind hatred) that the Vet*H8rs don't recall it.
Maybe it was because they were inexperienced mmorpg players and the "I can't win" people but whenever I went to the forums I saw the writing on the wall. There wasn't even rationale to their claims. Some of their claims were self contradicting.
Here's an example; I thought this was Star Wars, it's pokeman online "Everybody" is a CH and if you're not you can't pvp!! NERF CH !!
Now wait- if "everybody" is a CH then wouldn't it be balanced? If everybody is a CH then how could one not be a CH?
Typical I can't win with my profession against (insert) their profession.
It's like pvp'ers without a combat Doc or combat medic in their group. You were doomed. But nerf this or nerf that because you choose to not maximize your fighting power?
Remember the /citywarn, /cityban debacle? I posted on the SOE forums that it was a completely player controlled issue to not get griefed this way. It was very simple. CLONE at an NPC city!!! I got flamed off the boards there that no it was an unstoppable griefing tool, rofl
I remember a day in UO when a friend and guildmate wanted so and so booted from the guild because he was standing at the healers repeat killing new rez's in faction fighting.
He actually told me, So and so killed me like 16 times in a row!! I simply asked why would you repeat res in front of him and why didn't you just go to another healer?
His reply was, it's the closest healer and I wanted to get back ot the fight as fast as I could. I then asked if running to the next healer would have been faster than getting res killed 16 times?
He said , That's not the point, he SHOULDN'T be doing that!!!
Many a Vet has taught a newer player tough lessons in PvP in all games.
But in some cases the so called griefed player WAS in control of the situation.
I would like to state that in no way shape or form that anything I receive from SOE influences my opinion about SWG or their company. Im pretty much a typical average player enjoying the game.
Nothing you wrote here even remotely bolsters your argument. What players said is irrelevant to the equation: if players said stupid things, and SOE listened to them, that is SOE's fault.
Customers are never to blame for a business failure. That is an absurd position.
fishermage.blogspot.com
They didnt?
They didnt have "sit downs" in zones when they didnt like something...causing servers to crash? Thats funny, news like that always flew over onto the EQ servers I was on, or sites like FoH.
Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt of been happy with the credit dupe bans...but folks still were disrupting service to those whom might not of been along for the ride(that is read they didnt have issues atm). There is a way to handle such matters, crashing servers is not it.
You see even unto this very day, when an MMO has an exploit blow up huge on a game, the company that runs said MMO has to do whatever they can to save their in-game economy. It isnt just SWG that bans accounts, then adds em back in when the company checks the accounts out....allowing the legit players back into game.
Another thing I hjave seen over the years is that even when something was wrong/balance breaking, and SOE would want to correct it, the players would revolt on boards etc to epic proportions. That was some other things I heard about during the time on various sites/in EQ.
I have watched the train wreck in the forum here since just after the NGE(Followed the OBs when NGE launched, until they had banned most the vets).
Everything I have seen first hand, or read about pertaining to SWG, has been nothing short of outright childish behavior by a number of the players.
That isnt to dismiss SOE/LA on their part...they swapped game to NGE with no warning/input from community, released a POS, etc etc
That still doesnt excuse how some have acted, and still act, even till this very day.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
SOE is the one to blame for the downfall.
I just hope that KOTOR 3 isn't ran by SOE.
They didnt?
They didnt have "sit downs" in zones when they didnt like something...causing servers to crash? Thats funny, news like that always flew over onto the EQ servers I was on, or sites like FoH.
Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt of been happy with the credit dupe bans...but folks still were disrupting service to those whom might not of been along for the ride(that is read they didnt have issues atm). There is a way to handle such matters, crashing servers is not it.
You see even unto this very day, when an MMO has an exploit blow up huge on a game, the company that runs said MMO has to do whatever they can to save their in-game economy. It isnt just SWG that bans accounts, then adds em back in when the company checks the accounts out....allowing the legit players back into game.
Another thing I hjave seen over the years is that even when something was wrong/balance breaking, and SOE would want to correct it, the players would revolt on boards etc to epic proportions. That was some other things I heard about during the time on various sites/in EQ.
I have watched the train wreck in the forum here since just after the NGE(Followed the OBs when NGE launched, until they had banned most the vets).
Everything I have seen first hand, or read about pertaining to SWG, has been nothing short of outright childish behavior by a number of the players.
That isnt to dismiss SOE/LA on their part...they swapped game to NGE with no warning/input from community, released a POS, etc etc
That still doesnt excuse how some have acted, and still act, even till this very day.
None of that has any relevance to the idea of whose fault is it that the game failed. When a business venture fails, it is the people that run that business that are at fault. By definition the customers are not to blame. how customers behave has no bearing on that equation at all.
It may be an interesting discussion, as a separate, sociological discussion, but it has nothing to do with blame and failure.
that is always 100% the fault of th business and the people running it.
In this case it is mostly SOE's (for making it happen through mismanagement, other mistakes and a lack of business ethics) and partially LA's (for not doing their homework, for trusting SOE to know what they were doing, and allowing it to happen).
fishermage.blogspot.com
You are a master-de-bater Fish...not even gonna go there with ya.
You can take someones meaning and twist it six ways to Sunday. Impressive skill as far as wordplay goes, yet it still doesnt change things in reality. The players themselves did indeed help tanrish the image. Yes the far majority falls upon SOE/LA...but their are a faction of players that made the whole smell "rank" to those of us outside the game.
Yep that word twisting is handy...reason why lawyers get paid the big bucks to get criminals out of trouble. They know how to re-arrange things to their advantage. When everything else fails, they throw down to semantics...or that nice little chat we had...about phalacies.
So list me every broken rule in the book of arguements ya wish...it still doesnt change that SWg was perceived, by many of us not playing, as having a fracked up player base. And YES...I am sure it changed some folks mind when it come to the issue of "should I try this game out?".
Do us both a favor though...take a look at what is going on right now...and see what some of your fellow "vets" have been about all along. The ones I have prodded all this time.
They are easy to spot...they keep making flame threads on the main general brds pretty much attacking everyone on this site.
You need to realize the folks, whose company you keep, arent exactly angels in all this.
Whatever happened with SOE has nothing to do with Bioware...yet already the fight has begun. And what is up with them always throwing mental insults at anyone that didnt like SWG...or accusing them of being SOE employees/whatever else comes to their minds?
I can tell ya already...before I ever sign up for KOTOR online(if there will indeed even be one), it wont be until I know where the "vets" have settled on the various servers.
That way I can avoid em like the plague.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
The players are responsible for the failure of SWG? Sounds like a viral marketing campaign to me!
SOE is getting really desperate...
so in other words, since you can't actually win an argument with me, you attack me by complimenting my skills, and imply I am twisting things and other nonsense. You then throw in more irrelevancies like guilt by association.
/yawn
next?
fishermage.blogspot.com
First they blamed Raph Koster. then they blamed WoW, then they blamed the players. Shifting blame is pretty much the standard SOE tactic throughout this whole debacle.
fishermage.blogspot.com
First they blamed Raph Koster. then they blamed WoW, then they blamed the players. Shifting blame is pretty much the standard SOE tactic throughout this whole debacle.
The leak that Bioware's MMO is in fact going to be Star Wars has riled up a few folks it seems. I think we'll be seeing a renewed effort to absolve SOE of any responsibility from here on out. They would have gotten away with it to, if it wasn't for those meddling facts and that dog...
Scooby-dooby-dooo!
Hah Fisher....
I knew you wouldnt resist the urge. Bait taken.
Jokes on you pal...your "partners in crime" are tripping over themselves with this news being released. Frantic that they wont get the "precious" that has been craved for 2.5 yrs now.
Folks still going on about "We will get classic servers anyday". Yes indeed...any day. Shall I link the posts...or are you capable of finding them? Must admit...I dont think it has been this frantic since when the NGE was first dropped.
Now where have we heard the line about "any day" I wonder? Oh thats right...we have heard it for 2.5 yrs now.
Yep Fish...you twist words great. The master de-bater supreme.
Doesnt change facts...no "precious"...not for the last 2.5+ yrs...nor in the future. Doesnt change the bad rep a segment of the vet crowd has...and is making worse currently.
And in the quest for the "precious", we are going to see a lot of heads rolling off MMORPG very soon with all the attacks being made towards those of us who feel the "precious" was a POS.
Keep those fallacies sharpened Fish...that and 50 cents will get ya a cup of coffee.
What it wont do is get the "precious" back. Gotta luv it.
Good day to ya
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What the heck are you rambling about?
You make as much sense as Smedley talking about how Monthly subscription in MMORPG's are failing..
fishermage.blogspot.com
If you have to ask Wolf, you either havent been following the vet brds...or you didnt read the thread.
Everything is self evident.
And Fish... for the record...you took a strawman and run with it. I knew if I threw up a distraction, you would miss it entirely.
My stated position was that a section of the vet population has a bad rep. It added to why folks didnt wanna play SWG. You tried to turn it into a "I stand by SOE" or "it doesnt matter cause I said so"....which is not contained in my posts. I gave far majority credit to SOE/LA for their part.
I pointed out negatives about a segment of the vet population...and you offered nothing besides how "great" you are.
I know I know...there is a special Fish gets a second chance "get out of jail" squared...to the third degree with honors type rule thing. Please quote it for us...then respond to my actual statements this time.
Vanity...it is some individual's downfall. Next time... stick to the post before you put your shoulder out of socket from "patting yourself on the back" or "front... or whatever it is you masters do.
And as I said before....have a great day cause I dont think things could be peachier around MMORPG AFAIAC.
O and for my long time fan out there, who has made a habit the last 2 yrs of attempting to get me banned...I got last nights warning you submitted rescinded. I see you arent posting today....guess you werent so lucky.
Next time ,might wanna not report me, when you are the one throwing specific insults a persons way.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
LOL, is that all you guys got?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.