No it been 10 years and the MMO genre has hit a brick wall.. its out of ideas.. you cant blame WoW if every 1 wants to copy it.. which they aint (cept maye WAR and Lotro), we just have to wait for the next revolution in a few years.
We can surely not blame WoW or Blizzard for it. We can only blame the community and players that are willing to pay and play games like WoW that brought no innovation. It's a proof that huge advertisment with no originality can be very succesful.
The Wow hate is a laugh at MMORPG.COM
tell me what game has more polished end game content than Wow? So I can laugh too....
And marketing doesn't make games a succes for 4 years ! and certainly not in the same numbers as Wow did.
Conan anyone )))
62% of the MMORPG market and you guys are SO frustrated it comes out of your pants.
of course this gentleman may play any other MMORPG outthere, BUT ...
I am not the one who publishes ridiculous one liners... on a ... Wow forum.
So frustrated you don't even have fun anymore, while 10 million pay to play and laugh at that clown.
I remember him bashing on Wow when Conan launched. Conan was the real Wow killer (for the 7th in a row)
The man with the clown defended Conan...2 months ago... just to bash on the number one.
So who made a fool out of himself back then ?
The citizens in the world's most populous country continue to vote for Communist party leaders, therefor Communism is superior.
That is the sum of your argument.
Of the six million people playing WoW, how many have ever played any other MMORPG? Maybe 2 million. Of all the people playing other MMO"s how many have played WoW, probably most of them.
So if you look at people who have something to actually comapre WoW against, odds are roughly 50-50 that you'll prefer WoW. That's pretty good, but don't be Vicksburg, a McDonalds scarfing Communist, just because that's what the most people prefer.
To actually answer your question:
Vangaurd is a bit more difficult, it's slower to level, it's harder to find your way around and the crafting well... it's probably easier to do the things in real life than to craft them in Vanguard. Vanguard has a card game included (diplomacy), and lets you build guild halls and ships. It doesn't have the 'lets go to the Mall' feeling that WoW does, but it's not quite a sandbox game either, where you can do whatever you want wherever you want like some of the older games (Horizons, UO, EVE).
No it been 10 years and the MMO genre has hit a brick wall.. its out of ideas.. you cant blame WoW if every 1 wants to copy it.. which they aint (cept maye WAR and Lotro), we just have to wait for the next revolution in a few years.
We can surely not blame WoW or Blizzard for it. We can only blame the community and players that are willing to pay and play games like WoW that brought no innovation. It's a proof that huge advertisment with no originality can be very succesful.
The Wow hate is a laugh at MMORPG.COM
tell me what game has more polished end game content than Wow? So I can laugh too....
And marketing doesn't make games a succes for 4 years ! and certainly not in the same numbers as Wow did.
Conan anyone )))
62% of the MMORPG market and you guys are SO frustrated it comes out of your pants.
of course this gentleman may play any other MMORPG outthere, BUT ...
I am not the one who publishes ridiculous one liners... on a ... Wow forum.
So frustrated you don't even have fun anymore, while 10 million pay to play and laugh at that clown.
I remember him bashing on Wow when Conan launched. Conan was the real Wow killer (for the 7th in a row)
The man with the clown defended Conan...2 months ago... just to bash on the number one.
So who made a fool out of himself back then ?
The man with the clown, I guess you mean me. Anyway. Can you please find me a single topic when I defended AoC? Because I never played the game, and I never fell with the hype.
Main MMO before AoC = Vanguard, active sub: DDo/Lotro
Main MMO after AoC = Vanguard, active sub: DDo/Lotro
And seriously, your only argument is 10 MILLION. Do you always do what at least 10 other milion of people do? Do you always check first before your any activity, how many other people do the same? Do you wear the same clothes as majority, do you listen to the same music..? You have to come up with a bit better argument than "It has mass popularity" I do not trust people's sense for quality at all.
they are both good games, but they aim on a totaly different audience..
wow is more a casual game for people who want to be hardcore
where vanguard is more a hardcore game for people who want to be casual.
they both got seamless world, similar combat system & GUI.
Vanguad got nice stuff that wow just do not have, that i feel is a must have in mmos!
- Boats to travel the sea
- Player Housing
- Crafting where you have to interact.
- Politics
Vanguard dosn't have PVP (unless you go on an FFA server, and thats not for everyone)
But why judge a game by the owner? I played wow for 2 1/2 years, it whas fun.. but my view of blizzard is still that they are a maker of rts games, and should be keeping it that way..
they are both good games, but they aim on a totaly different audience.. wow is more a casual game for people who want to be hardcore where vanguard is more a hardcore game for people who want to be casual.
they are both good games, but they aim on a totaly different audience.. wow is more a casual game for people who want to be hardcore where vanguard is more a hardcore game for people who want to be casual.
Could you please explain this a little more ?
vanguard is a group based game, although it got lots of new solo contents. but what makes the game able to be casual is the part of 2 systems called caravan & brotherhood.
caravan is a teleporter system that teleport everyone in the caravan group to the leaders location when the leaders logg off, next time they logg on, they get teleported to that location. really usefull if you going on a raid the next day.
brotherhood is a XP distribution system, where you can have up to 6 people sharing xp, that includes xp from quests.. and if 5 people is offline, 1 person can lvl up all the outher characters in the brotherhood (although that would take 6 times longer to lvl up)
I thought you meant Vanguard had tons of exploration/leveling content and less high end content.
You see, i can no longer spend time in high end guilds, raiding or anything like that. Besides i never really loved the concept of raiding the way it's implemented in WoW, ie : scheduled event.
For me an adventure is a lot of improvisation : wondering what kind of things i'll find here and there, unexpectedly meeting few players and participating in their activity (if they agree) is the kind of thing i'm looking for in a mmorpg.
I'm not looking for a challenged based on "beat that big bad boss, knowing in advance it has been designed to be beaten", which basically means the boss is nothing more than a puzzle you have to solve using gimmicks.
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field. Thousands of websites support the game and millions of videos show how the best players play in PVE and PVP. Supporting add ons, UI adaptations, class tips, gaming tips. You name it/ One of the better: www.wowinsider.com It is now for almost 1100 days the mosty played game on XFire (number 1) and this being backed up by all kind of independant sources. Wow is also the ONLY game in the top 10 that you have to PAY to play. CoD4 being a far second but free to play. That alone says enough. Of course you can play Vanguard in which there are about 40K subscribers. Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Hahahaha yeh, they spent all these milions just for the f*** of it.
Ahh reading is difficult isn't it. In the Netherlands, advertising for WoW was pretty much nonexistant. All the people I saw get into WoW did so because they absolutely loved playing their beta account, some of which had never given the game a second look simply because it would have a monthly fee.
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field. Thousands of websites support the game and millions of videos show how the best players play in PVE and PVP. Supporting add ons, UI adaptations, class tips, gaming tips. You name it/ One of the better: www.wowinsider.com It is now for almost 1100 days the mosty played game on XFire (number 1) and this being backed up by all kind of independant sources. Wow is also the ONLY game in the top 10 that you have to PAY to play. CoD4 being a far second but free to play. That alone says enough. Of course you can play Vanguard in which there are about 40K subscribers. Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Hahahaha yeh, they spent all these milions just for the f*** of it.
Ahh reading is difficult isn't it. In the Netherlands, advertising for WoW was pretty much nonexistant. All the people I saw get into WoW did so because they absolutely loved playing their beta account, some of which had never given the game a second look simply because it would have a monthly fee.
So lol @ you
Hah yes reading is very difficult. I guess you didn't notice, but I wasn't really agreeing with your post. I was kinda being sarcastic secretly asking where disappeared all these 40$mil for adv before release? Funny to see you even did that "lol @ you" when it was actually you who misunderstood.
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field... Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Uhm.. no, not really.
Not long ago Britney Spears had 60% of the media coverage in the world. But you have to look at who was voting.
VG (and other SOE games, like EQ1 and EQ2) are more complicated than WOW. They are also harder to master and take more time, in some cases a LOT more time.
Personally, the stylized graphics in WOW gets on my nerves, but that is just me. But VG takes a lot higher end machine to run it well.
After having played both Vanguard and Wow I can truly say there is no comparison.
None, nada, ninguno, zip, zilch.
In Vanguard I wasted so much time and money and it was not worth it. I wouldn't play the game if it was made free which knowing Sony I know that to be most improbable.
As for WoW, I had made a 60 Druid over 3 and a half yrs back then left due to the game being so unbalanced. I recently returned and they have changed the game a lot where now it's different in that aspect. But it's still a grind fest when it comes to getting items from creatures.
WoW is so good because everthing in the game is done well. It doesn't do anything really innovative and isn't superior to other games in any single area except maybe UI customization. But every single zone, quest, class, skill, feature, enemy, and everything in the game is done well and designed to be fun. Together the well done parts form a game that is so superior to its competitors that it's got probably half of the MMO market it USA and Europe.
WoW is also a game suitable for nearly everyone. Newbies can enjoy the leveling experience wich is probably the most fantastic in any MMO when experienced for the first time, raiders have their hardcore raiding, and PvPers can do battlegrounds and arenas. And the 9 classes play so diffirently that almost everyone can find a class and role he likes to play. And WoW always offers some aims for you, wether you have half an hour or whole day there's always something meaningful to do and something to achieve. So that if you aren't sure what you are looking for, WoW is good MMO to start that looking.
Vanguard is more a niche game, and don't fool yourself thinking that it would be as well done or good as WoW, it isn't. Also Vanguard doesn't have any decent PvP, so if you want to PvP, WoW is your only viable choise (of those two games). But if you are looking forward to spending a lot of time crafting, playing diplomacy minigame with cards, or building your own house, then Vanguard is a good game. And if you are looking forward to wandering around the world more freely and finding yourself a good spot to camp instead of always trying to reach some aim set you by the game, then you might also want to check Vanguard out.
Keep in mind that Vanguard system requirements are quite heavy, and there isn't even a free trial yet. My recommendation is to download free WoW trial and test it out first. Then think about bying Vanguard only if you don't end up liking WoW. Vanguard free trial should come out soon, try to wait for that instead of buying if you want to test Vanguard.
Why would I play WoW instead of Vanguard? Vanguard looks like an awesome game, but it is made by Sony so I don't know if I dare invest time in it.
There are two ways to gauge a game:
1) Personal taste. You must load up free trials and play for a few hours to find this out.
2) Popularity. Just count the player base, or if that is unknown, count the number of servers. More servers or more players means a more popular game, and this correlates highly with quality. (Just like with anything; if something is crap, folks generally don't buy it. If something is hot, everyone buys it.)
If there are free trials available and you have the patience to download hours of game patches, Option 1 is the way to go. Barring that, you can always look at Option 2 before you plop down $50.
Hint: WOW has about 229 servers. Vanguard, last time I played it, had 4. That's right, 4 servers!
Both are PVE games - Vanguard moreso as it has no real PVP
Nothing is instanced in Vanguard but the Raid, and it only has one huge raid
You can solo in both games until end
You can craft without fighting in Vanguard
Vanguard as diplomacy, WoW has nothing of the sort
Boats and housing, WoW doesn't have that
Brotherhood (EXP sharing) - keeps everyone at the same level, awesome feature
Vanguard looks more realistic I guess, trees blow in the wind, trees fall down when you chop them, so you need a better computer for that
More classes, more races in Vanguard
You lose some exp when you die, makes you focus a little more
To me, Vanguard is awesome. WoW was awesome too, but I got to 70 and quit because its all hardcore or mindless nothingness from then on. Vanguard, there's always something new to do if you are a person of different tastes. If you don't want to craft, hate diplomacy, and love PVP, then Vanguard is not for you. You can't really go wrong with either one if you never played WoW though, they are both great games to try out.
"It is owned by Sony which means they can do whatever they want with it. Remember, it has always been true that it is easier to destroy than to create."
What is the point of this thread? Seems obvious you don't want to play or try Vanguard and are seemingly just here to bash on SOE.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
If you want a game that isn't raid or PvP based( crafted gear is pretty close to being the best), has shiney graphics and has lots of different things to do, try LoTRO.
Both are great fun, for me WoW is more about PvP and dungeon crawling, Lotro is about story and activities like quests, traits, housing, hobbies, lots of things.
All depends what you're looking for.
Vaguard just doesn't intrest me much, SOE is mediocre as a company. Haven't had a single problem with Turbine or Blizzard.
Plus, you're getting expansions for both this holiday season
WOW owns 60% of the MMORPG field. Thousands of websites support the game and millions of videos show how the best players play in PVE and PVP. Supporting add ons, UI adaptations, class tips, gaming tips. You name it/ One of the better: www.wowinsider.com It is now for almost 1100 days the mosty played game on XFire (number 1) and this being backed up by all kind of independant sources. Wow is also the ONLY game in the top 10 that you have to PAY to play. CoD4 being a far second but free to play. That alone says enough. Of course you can play Vanguard in which there are about 40K subscribers. Number of voters that vote with their wallets .... says it all.
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
The funny thing is, I didnt hear about WoW untill a few months after launch. I was busy playing FFXI, I guess that 40mill didnt help to have me know about it.
I knew about Vanguard a while before it launched, the hype for this game was crazy. Would still be playing I had a decent computer and me and my cuzins didnt play WoW.
I havent played Vanguard on max settings (cuz I cant get a decent framerate even at low settings) but the game play is nice, crafting is more complex than WoW's. VG has a huge world, tons of races and classes to chose from compared to WoW. VG graphics are better than WoW its just VG is lacking in the animation department, they may have changed that since I played last.
But its a good idea to try it for youself and see which one you like best.
If you're refering to the new TV ads, those didn't build the customer base, it was already there. It might get more people, but it didn't draw the first 8+ million.
Why would I play WoW instead of Vanguard? Vanguard looks like an awesome game, but it is made by Sony so I don't know if I dare invest time in it.
VG best aspect is freedom and beautifull realistic graphics, till in WoW its cartoon look and polishness. At all both games have pretty different feeling, in fact they are compleatly diffenrent genre in MMORPG, so if you find one of them a great game the other will be bad for shure. I personnaly love VG, and have the feeling for lost more than one year in WoW (the first and the only game that get me such feeling). Depends what are you looking for...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again).
WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow)
Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again). WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow) Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
If AV battles took 7 hours before and 30min now, how can you say wow takes more time now? Since TBC everything takes less time really. Dungeons in outland are shorter and BG is more intense. This allows casual players that cannot sit and play 7 hours straight to enjoy the game more.
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again). WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow) Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
Oh get off your high horse. I'm so sick of people playing failing games that people choose not to play because they lack quality and then call them "mature" as if they are some MMO royalty or something. Where are those 500,000 mature people playing that Sigil claimed they would get to subsribe? Wait! Wasn't VG supposed to be some hardcore game for old school players? Things like long travel times, harsh death penalties and the like? Try again please.
People don't play VG because it isn't a great game and it has the SOE reputation to deal with, end of story. I will skip the obvious reasons of why it failed and the company that made it WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, but it sure as hell wasn't because there are not enough mature people playing MMOs.
As for the rest of this thread, I love how people have all these excuses why WoW is popular, especially Thillians lies about the $40 million dollar advertising campaign prior to launch that never existsed. Then they blame the state of MMOs and lack of basically everything on WoW. Listen to some of the circular logic used.
10 WoW cloned EQ and didn't create anything new.
20 Everyone is cloning WoW and not creating anything new.
30 got 10
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular? Why don't people just go play any number of these other clones when they are burned out dog tired of playing WoW. We all know the answer, but somehow people just want to blame one person/thing for the faults of the many.
My second favorite is 'WoW is only popular because lots of people play it'. Well I am convinced now. Who could ever disagree with that statement. Obviously everything else sucks about the game and misery just wants company.
Seriously, people are making totally ridiculous claims in this thread like WoW is responsible for 10 years of nothing new. As if the entire genre hasn't been just a rehash of EQ for 10 years now with some games being better remakes than the rest.
My second favorite is 'WoW is only popular because lots of people play it'.
Even better than that are the ones who prop it up and say "It's TRUE!!!". Gosh I wish I was back in high school on the debate team against these people. I wouldn't have had to say a word, just let them talk and I'd win hands down. LOL
10 WoW cloned EQ and didn't create anything new. 20 Everyone is cloning WoW and not creating anything new. 30 got 10 Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular?
The answer is so simple. Marketing & Advertisment. Look at Asheron's Call 2 made by Turbine. It was a game with 99% of the features WoW had at release. WoW could be called Asheron's Call 2.5
At that time most of the players were hardcore in today's terms. They found AC2 to be too easy, made for carebears and casuals. The problem was that Turbine could not sell AC2 because they lack marketing and advertisment to bring new people into genre.
What Blizzard did was simple. They made this AC2 ripoff called WoW and payed huge marketing for it and publicity to bring new players into MMORPG. The majority of old mmorpg players DID not like WoW at all just like they did not like AC2, but WoW was filling up with all the newcommers to the genre, that it eventually became a legend that "there is something good about the game when milions of play it" so even the old school players jumped into WoW.
Mass hysteria is the explanation for its success. Not a quality. Do you really believe people can SEE QUALITY? It's so naive I can hardly breathe. Do you really believe that an average person is able to see quality and is able to make a responsible decision? I say no, an average person will always fall with the hype and play what milions of others play.
I say, the fact that something is popular in compare to competition means the quality is low but marketing is high. And it applies to everything (music, cinema, food, clothing, politics..)
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again). WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow) Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
Oh get off your high horse. I'm so sick of people playing failing games that people choose not to play because they lack quality and then call them "mature" as if they are some MMO royalty or something. Where are those 500,000 mature people playing that Sigil claimed they would get to subsribe? Wait! Wasn't VG supposed to be some hardcore game for old school players? Things like long travel times, harsh death penalties and the like? Try again please.
People don't play VG because it isn't a great game and it has the SOE reputation to deal with, end of story. I will skip the obvious reasons of why it failed and the company that made it WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, but it sure as hell wasn't because there are not enough mature people playing MMOs.
As for the rest of this thread, I love how people have all these excuses why WoW is popular, especially Thillians lies about the $40 million dollar advertising campaign prior to launch that never existsed. Then they blame the state of MMOs and lack of basically everything on WoW. Listen to some of the circular logic used.
10 WoW cloned EQ and didn't create anything new.
20 Everyone is cloning WoW and not creating anything new.
30 got 10
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular? Why don't people just go play any number of these other clones when they are burned out dog tired of playing WoW. We all know the answer, but somehow people just want to blame one person/thing for the faults of the many.
My second favorite is 'WoW is only popular because lots of people play it'. Well I am convinced now. Who could ever disagree with that statement. Obviously everything else sucks about the game and misery just wants company.
Seriously, people are making totally ridiculous claims in this thread like WoW is responsible for 10 years of nothing new. As if the entire genre hasn't been just a rehash of EQ for 10 years now with some games being better remakes than the rest.
You sir, probably made the best reply so far in this thread. I salute you. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Comments
We can surely not blame WoW or Blizzard for it. We can only blame the community and players that are willing to pay and play games like WoW that brought no innovation. It's a proof that huge advertisment with no originality can be very succesful.
The Wow hate is a laugh at MMORPG.COM
tell me what game has more polished end game content than Wow? So I can laugh too....
And marketing doesn't make games a succes for 4 years ! and certainly not in the same numbers as Wow did.
Conan anyone
)))
62% of the MMORPG market and you guys are SO frustrated it comes out of your pants.
of course this gentleman may play any other MMORPG outthere, BUT ...
I am not the one who publishes ridiculous one liners... on a ... Wow forum.
So frustrated you don't even have fun anymore, while 10 million pay to play and laugh at that clown.
I remember him bashing on Wow when Conan launched. Conan was the real Wow killer (for the 7th in a row)
The man with the clown defended Conan...2 months ago... just to bash on the number one.
So who made a fool out of himself back then ?
The citizens in the world's most populous country continue to vote for Communist party leaders, therefor Communism is superior.
That is the sum of your argument.
Of the six million people playing WoW, how many have ever played any other MMORPG? Maybe 2 million. Of all the people playing other MMO"s how many have played WoW, probably most of them.
So if you look at people who have something to actually comapre WoW against, odds are roughly 50-50 that you'll prefer WoW. That's pretty good, but don't be Vicksburg, a McDonalds scarfing Communist, just because that's what the most people prefer.
To actually answer your question:
Vangaurd is a bit more difficult, it's slower to level, it's harder to find your way around and the crafting well... it's probably easier to do the things in real life than to craft them in Vanguard. Vanguard has a card game included (diplomacy), and lets you build guild halls and ships. It doesn't have the 'lets go to the Mall' feeling that WoW does, but it's not quite a sandbox game either, where you can do whatever you want wherever you want like some of the older games (Horizons, UO, EVE).
We can surely not blame WoW or Blizzard for it. We can only blame the community and players that are willing to pay and play games like WoW that brought no innovation. It's a proof that huge advertisment with no originality can be very succesful.
The Wow hate is a laugh at MMORPG.COM
tell me what game has more polished end game content than Wow? So I can laugh too....
And marketing doesn't make games a succes for 4 years ! and certainly not in the same numbers as Wow did.
Conan anyone
)))
62% of the MMORPG market and you guys are SO frustrated it comes out of your pants.
of course this gentleman may play any other MMORPG outthere, BUT ...
I am not the one who publishes ridiculous one liners... on a ... Wow forum.
So frustrated you don't even have fun anymore, while 10 million pay to play and laugh at that clown.
I remember him bashing on Wow when Conan launched. Conan was the real Wow killer (for the 7th in a row)
The man with the clown defended Conan...2 months ago... just to bash on the number one.
So who made a fool out of himself back then ?
The man with the clown, I guess you mean me. Anyway. Can you please find me a single topic when I defended AoC? Because I never played the game, and I never fell with the hype.
But these are my words from 2 months ago: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2043920#2043920
And seriously, your only argument is 10 MILLION. Do you always do what at least 10 other milion of people do? Do you always check first before your any activity, how many other people do the same? Do you wear the same clothes as majority, do you listen to the same music..? You have to come up with a bit better argument than "It has mass popularity" I do not trust people's sense for quality at all.
REALITY CHECK
they are both good games, but they aim on a totaly different audience..
wow is more a casual game for people who want to be hardcore
where vanguard is more a hardcore game for people who want to be casual.
they both got seamless world, similar combat system & GUI.
Vanguad got nice stuff that wow just do not have, that i feel is a must have in mmos!
- Boats to travel the sea
- Player Housing
- Crafting where you have to interact.
- Politics
Vanguard dosn't have PVP (unless you go on an FFA server, and thats not for everyone)
But why judge a game by the owner? I played wow for 2 1/2 years, it whas fun.. but my view of blizzard is still that they are a maker of rts games, and should be keeping it that way..
Could you please explain this a little more ?
Could you please explain this a little more ?
vanguard is a group based game, although it got lots of new solo contents. but what makes the game able to be casual is the part of 2 systems called caravan & brotherhood.
caravan is a teleporter system that teleport everyone in the caravan group to the leaders location when the leaders logg off, next time they logg on, they get teleported to that location. really usefull if you going on a raid the next day.
brotherhood is a XP distribution system, where you can have up to 6 people sharing xp, that includes xp from quests.. and if 5 people is offline, 1 person can lvl up all the outher characters in the brotherhood (although that would take 6 times longer to lvl up)
Oh ok...
I thought you meant Vanguard had tons of exploration/leveling content and less high end content.
You see, i can no longer spend time in high end guilds, raiding or anything like that. Besides i never really loved the concept of raiding the way it's implemented in WoW, ie : scheduled event.
For me an adventure is a lot of improvisation : wondering what kind of things i'll find here and there, unexpectedly meeting few players and participating in their activity (if they agree) is the kind of thing i'm looking for in a mmorpg.
I'm not looking for a challenged based on "beat that big bad boss, knowing in advance it has been designed to be beaten", which basically means the boss is nothing more than a puzzle you have to solve using gimmicks.
See what i mean ?
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Hahahaha yeh, they spent all these milions just for the f*** of it.
Ahh reading is difficult isn't it. In the Netherlands, advertising for WoW was pretty much nonexistant. All the people I saw get into WoW did so because they absolutely loved playing their beta account, some of which had never given the game a second look simply because it would have a monthly fee.
So lol @ you
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
Marketing in the Netherlands here for MMO's was non existant before WoW (now you see the tv commercial sometimes) but I can tell you that that game spread on sheer word of mouth in my community and had *nothing* to do with any adds and the like which didn't really become visible till the Celebrity adds were made a few years in.
I know many people who never played MMO's and thought paying monthly was the last thing they'd ever do change their mind in an instant after they got to play the open beta.
This game sold itself on *merits*, not on a marketing campaign.
Hahahaha yeh, they spent all these milions just for the f*** of it.
Ahh reading is difficult isn't it. In the Netherlands, advertising for WoW was pretty much nonexistant. All the people I saw get into WoW did so because they absolutely loved playing their beta account, some of which had never given the game a second look simply because it would have a monthly fee.
So lol @ you
Hah yes reading is very difficult. I guess you didn't notice, but I wasn't really agreeing with your post. I was kinda being sarcastic secretly asking where disappeared all these 40$mil for adv before release? Funny to see you even did that "lol @ you" when it was actually you who misunderstood.
REALITY CHECK
Uhm.. no, not really.
Not long ago Britney Spears had 60% of the media coverage in the world. But you have to look at who was voting.
VG (and other SOE games, like EQ1 and EQ2) are more complicated than WOW. They are also harder to master and take more time, in some cases a LOT more time.
Personally, the stylized graphics in WOW gets on my nerves, but that is just me. But VG takes a lot higher end machine to run it well.
After having played both Vanguard and Wow I can truly say there is no comparison.
None, nada, ninguno, zip, zilch.
In Vanguard I wasted so much time and money and it was not worth it. I wouldn't play the game if it was made free which knowing Sony I know that to be most improbable.
As for WoW, I had made a 60 Druid over 3 and a half yrs back then left due to the game being so unbalanced. I recently returned and they have changed the game a lot where now it's different in that aspect. But it's still a grind fest when it comes to getting items from creatures.
Looking forward to new expansion.
WoW is so good because everthing in the game is done well. It doesn't do anything really innovative and isn't superior to other games in any single area except maybe UI customization. But every single zone, quest, class, skill, feature, enemy, and everything in the game is done well and designed to be fun. Together the well done parts form a game that is so superior to its competitors that it's got probably half of the MMO market it USA and Europe.
WoW is also a game suitable for nearly everyone. Newbies can enjoy the leveling experience wich is probably the most fantastic in any MMO when experienced for the first time, raiders have their hardcore raiding, and PvPers can do battlegrounds and arenas. And the 9 classes play so diffirently that almost everyone can find a class and role he likes to play. And WoW always offers some aims for you, wether you have half an hour or whole day there's always something meaningful to do and something to achieve. So that if you aren't sure what you are looking for, WoW is good MMO to start that looking.
Vanguard is more a niche game, and don't fool yourself thinking that it would be as well done or good as WoW, it isn't. Also Vanguard doesn't have any decent PvP, so if you want to PvP, WoW is your only viable choise (of those two games). But if you are looking forward to spending a lot of time crafting, playing diplomacy minigame with cards, or building your own house, then Vanguard is a good game. And if you are looking forward to wandering around the world more freely and finding yourself a good spot to camp instead of always trying to reach some aim set you by the game, then you might also want to check Vanguard out.
Keep in mind that Vanguard system requirements are quite heavy, and there isn't even a free trial yet. My recommendation is to download free WoW trial and test it out first. Then think about bying Vanguard only if you don't end up liking WoW. Vanguard free trial should come out soon, try to wait for that instead of buying if you want to test Vanguard.
There are two ways to gauge a game:
1) Personal taste. You must load up free trials and play for a few hours to find this out.
2) Popularity. Just count the player base, or if that is unknown, count the number of servers. More servers or more players means a more popular game, and this correlates highly with quality. (Just like with anything; if something is crap, folks generally don't buy it. If something is hot, everyone buys it.)
If there are free trials available and you have the patience to download hours of game patches, Option 1 is the way to go. Barring that, you can always look at Option 2 before you plop down $50.
Hint: WOW has about 229 servers. Vanguard, last time I played it, had 4. That's right, 4 servers!
WoW and Vanguard:
Both are PVE games - Vanguard moreso as it has no real PVP
Nothing is instanced in Vanguard but the Raid, and it only has one huge raid
You can solo in both games until end
You can craft without fighting in Vanguard
Vanguard as diplomacy, WoW has nothing of the sort
Boats and housing, WoW doesn't have that
Brotherhood (EXP sharing) - keeps everyone at the same level, awesome feature
Vanguard looks more realistic I guess, trees blow in the wind, trees fall down when you chop them, so you need a better computer for that
More classes, more races in Vanguard
You lose some exp when you die, makes you focus a little more
To me, Vanguard is awesome. WoW was awesome too, but I got to 70 and quit because its all hardcore or mindless nothingness from then on. Vanguard, there's always something new to do if you are a person of different tastes. If you don't want to craft, hate diplomacy, and love PVP, then Vanguard is not for you. You can't really go wrong with either one if you never played WoW though, they are both great games to try out.
"It is owned by Sony which means they can do whatever they want with it. Remember, it has always been true that it is easier to destroy than to create."
What is the point of this thread? Seems obvious you don't want to play or try Vanguard and are seemingly just here to bash on SOE.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
If you want a game that isn't raid or PvP based( crafted gear is pretty close to being the best), has shiney graphics and has lots of different things to do, try LoTRO.
Both are great fun, for me WoW is more about PvP and dungeon crawling, Lotro is about story and activities like quests, traits, housing, hobbies, lots of things.
All depends what you're looking for.
Vaguard just doesn't intrest me much, SOE is mediocre as a company. Haven't had a single problem with Turbine or Blizzard.
Plus, you're getting expansions for both this holiday season
Yeh because, Blizzard spent more money on marketing campaign before release (40$mil) than Sigil for the whole development of Vanguard (30$mil)
It's like comparing Titanic movie with 200$+budget with Waking Life that had 2.5$mil. Apparently Titanic saw much MORE people and many more will say it's a great movie, while waking life has much smaller fan base.
The funny thing is, I didnt hear about WoW untill a few months after launch. I was busy playing FFXI, I guess that 40mill didnt help to have me know about it.
I knew about Vanguard a while before it launched, the hype for this game was crazy. Would still be playing I had a decent computer and me and my cuzins didnt play WoW.
I havent played Vanguard on max settings (cuz I cant get a decent framerate even at low settings) but the game play is nice, crafting is more complex than WoW's. VG has a huge world, tons of races and classes to chose from compared to WoW. VG graphics are better than WoW its just VG is lacking in the animation department, they may have changed that since I played last.
But its a good idea to try it for youself and see which one you like best.
Really, what advertising did WoW have at launch?
I hadn't heard of it til I started playing MMOs.
If you're refering to the new TV ads, those didn't build the customer base, it was already there. It might get more people, but it didn't draw the first 8+ million.
VG best aspect is freedom and beautifull realistic graphics, till in WoW its cartoon look and polishness. At all both games have pretty different feeling, in fact they are compleatly diffenrent genre in MMORPG, so if you find one of them a great game the other will be bad for shure. I personnaly love VG, and have the feeling for lost more than one year in WoW (the first and the only game that get me such feeling). Depends what are you looking for...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Nowdays WOW is just meaningless grindfest game which eats huge amount of time if you want to keep in touch with the rest of the comunity. What a sick idea by blizzard was to make battlegrounds PVP a stupid honor grind fest where players go only because they need equipment with ressilience (another sick idea by blizz) to be able to compete in arenas. The more time you have to play the more honor you have. Before TBC AV was an epic battle which sometimes lasted more than 7 hours, now it takes 30min with almost no fighting horde vs alliance (rinse and repeat over and over again).
WOW is for kids with lots of time (you can see this at the stupid kiddie comunity in wow)
Vanguard is for mature players with jobs, wifes, kids who doesnt have so much time to play games (you can see that at the VG mature, inteligent and friendly comunity)
If AV battles took 7 hours before and 30min now, how can you say wow takes more time now? Since TBC everything takes less time really. Dungeons in outland are shorter and BG is more intense. This allows casual players that cannot sit and play 7 hours straight to enjoy the game more.
Oh get off your high horse. I'm so sick of people playing failing games that people choose not to play because they lack quality and then call them "mature" as if they are some MMO royalty or something. Where are those 500,000 mature people playing that Sigil claimed they would get to subsribe? Wait! Wasn't VG supposed to be some hardcore game for old school players? Things like long travel times, harsh death penalties and the like? Try again please.
People don't play VG because it isn't a great game and it has the SOE reputation to deal with, end of story. I will skip the obvious reasons of why it failed and the company that made it WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, but it sure as hell wasn't because there are not enough mature people playing MMOs.
As for the rest of this thread, I love how people have all these excuses why WoW is popular, especially Thillians lies about the $40 million dollar advertising campaign prior to launch that never existsed. Then they blame the state of MMOs and lack of basically everything on WoW. Listen to some of the circular logic used.
10 WoW cloned EQ and didn't create anything new.
20 Everyone is cloning WoW and not creating anything new.
30 got 10
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular? Why don't people just go play any number of these other clones when they are burned out dog tired of playing WoW. We all know the answer, but somehow people just want to blame one person/thing for the faults of the many.
My second favorite is 'WoW is only popular because lots of people play it'. Well I am convinced now. Who could ever disagree with that statement. Obviously everything else sucks about the game and misery just wants company.
Seriously, people are making totally ridiculous claims in this thread like WoW is responsible for 10 years of nothing new. As if the entire genre hasn't been just a rehash of EQ for 10 years now with some games being better remakes than the rest.
What does it matter that the game is in the hands of Sony? If it wasn't for Sony World of Warcraft wouldnt of had any material to copy from.
Even better than that are the ones who prop it up and say "It's TRUE!!!". Gosh I wish I was back in high school on the debate team against these people. I wouldn't have had to say a word, just let them talk and I'd win hands down. LOL
The answer is so simple. Marketing & Advertisment. Look at Asheron's Call 2 made by Turbine. It was a game with 99% of the features WoW had at release. WoW could be called Asheron's Call 2.5
At that time most of the players were hardcore in today's terms. They found AC2 to be too easy, made for carebears and casuals. The problem was that Turbine could not sell AC2 because they lack marketing and advertisment to bring new people into genre.
What Blizzard did was simple. They made this AC2 ripoff called WoW and payed huge marketing for it and publicity to bring new players into MMORPG. The majority of old mmorpg players DID not like WoW at all just like they did not like AC2, but WoW was filling up with all the newcommers to the genre, that it eventually became a legend that "there is something good about the game when milions of play it" so even the old school players jumped into WoW.
Mass hysteria is the explanation for its success. Not a quality. Do you really believe people can SEE QUALITY? It's so naive I can hardly breathe. Do you really believe that an average person is able to see quality and is able to make a responsible decision? I say no, an average person will always fall with the hype and play what milions of others play.
I say, the fact that something is popular in compare to competition means the quality is low but marketing is high. And it applies to everything (music, cinema, food, clothing, politics..)
REALITY CHECK
Oh get off your high horse. I'm so sick of people playing failing games that people choose not to play because they lack quality and then call them "mature" as if they are some MMO royalty or something. Where are those 500,000 mature people playing that Sigil claimed they would get to subsribe? Wait! Wasn't VG supposed to be some hardcore game for old school players? Things like long travel times, harsh death penalties and the like? Try again please.
People don't play VG because it isn't a great game and it has the SOE reputation to deal with, end of story. I will skip the obvious reasons of why it failed and the company that made it WENT OUT OF BUSINESS, but it sure as hell wasn't because there are not enough mature people playing MMOs.
As for the rest of this thread, I love how people have all these excuses why WoW is popular, especially Thillians lies about the $40 million dollar advertising campaign prior to launch that never existsed. Then they blame the state of MMOs and lack of basically everything on WoW. Listen to some of the circular logic used.
10 WoW cloned EQ and didn't create anything new.
20 Everyone is cloning WoW and not creating anything new.
30 got 10
Has anyone ever stopped to ask, if WoW is just an EQ clone and everyone else is cloning WoW then why is WoW so much more popular? Why don't people just go play any number of these other clones when they are burned out dog tired of playing WoW. We all know the answer, but somehow people just want to blame one person/thing for the faults of the many.
My second favorite is 'WoW is only popular because lots of people play it'. Well I am convinced now. Who could ever disagree with that statement. Obviously everything else sucks about the game and misery just wants company.
Seriously, people are making totally ridiculous claims in this thread like WoW is responsible for 10 years of nothing new. As if the entire genre hasn't been just a rehash of EQ for 10 years now with some games being better remakes than the rest.
You sir, probably made the best reply so far in this thread. I salute you.
Couldn't have said it better myself.