Now I bet alot of you expect this to be some crazy troll thread. It's not. Im just stating a prediction for the future. Age's ago before WoW came out you can look back on these forum's and see many post's saying how great WoW will be. It was great. Now the same thing is happening here with WAR. Many post's are being made about how great it will be. It will be great. Let's say WAR end's up getting 8 million player's. Will it still be considered great by the forum's? Or will it become just like WoW, waiting to get flamed for ruining MMO's forever. This is just something Ive begun to think about. If it prove's true then I think I can make conclusion that the MMO community doesnt base a game on good gameplay but how many member's it has. Comment below. Thank you!
I believe WoW will start copying features that WAR currently has implemented (cough achievement system).
And to those who think it ruined MMO's it really set a new standard, sure it ruined SWG but thats one casualty on the way to better games, companies just now need to start expanding on World of Warcraft concepts and move ahead and use some of the those instead of all for the basis of theirs.
I seriously believe WAR can actually take close to half of WoW's North American, Aussie, and European player base. China maybe not because they live off of the gold and item farming, China seems to love grinding as is evident by any MMO's coming from Asia, and WoW is a grind heavy game in the end. WAR is about PvP (RvR) action and large battles, and an ever changing landscape due to the war affecting it. They pretty much seem to eliminate the grind that many MMO's have. This is a key to drawing in players who want a quick 30 minutes or so of FUN play before bed time or whatever, and be able to accomplish something besides just griding.
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So we agree: WAR is not WOW ) Realm pride is a big word, but with casual "just jump in..." game play it will be too limited to be of any significance past a certain period. Actually a similar thing kept great empires going with the peons and workers feeling somewhat more rewarded when they were a "Roman" or a "Brit". The same thing applies here. DAOC proved that RvR could be extended to years. Casuals would actually be goaded to help out since even lower levels help out the RvR progression. Guild pride exists - but is direclty related to PVE progress in raids in Wow. That is not true at all. There are quite a number of PvP guild who do very well in WoW and have guild pride. If it is applied to PvP only, the "fun" factor as you call it, comes to a halt very soon. How long is the game life of a twink in Wow ? (2 months 3 monts average). I only PvE in daoc for years and I only PvP in WoW unless I had to get some gear then I went back to PvPing but PvEing was boring to me. Same mob over and over and over. Same instance over and over and over. Boring. PvP is more dynamic and unpredictable. The fun factor to you is not the fun factor to everyone. I don't like PvE. See it this way: the progression of your character in the end game is crucial to keep you playing. FUN is in no way enough to keep PAYING to play. You have to feel the progression of your character. Else play TF2. Ever heard of PvP progression? I guess you haven't? The only other progression is guild progression, but .... reconquering the already conquered is ... fun for how many months ? This repeated point of yours is referred to below. So you DO need serious hi end raid content to keep the choices up and have the guild motivation on. No DAOC never had that and it thrived for years. And if it IS true that gear progression will also be limited in WAR (which I do NOT believe btw), long term subs will be an illusion. You will be proved wrong and what will you do?
Exactly these elements killed DAoC. hence they tried to add PVE content, but that of course was too little too late. Wrong! The addition of TOA which was a PvE grind to a PvE orientated endgame audience actually hurt daoc more. So the burst of energy and playings of WAR will certainly be there in its first 10 weeks, but what the period after that? DAOC lasted more than 10 weeks it actually lasted years, so yes people will be interested in playing RvR past 10 weeks. Conquering the already conquered is too limited . A siege is a siege is a siege. Raiding the already raided is too limited. An instance is an instance is an instance. LMAO. See the parallel there? Where will the guilds be listing their progress? 1263 times sacked the enemy capital ? That's at release? Was there even any point of sacking an enemy capital at release of wow? Was there even any structured PvP at the start of WoW? Neverteless : the real pain point is point 4 I mentioned. With a GOOD and fast and frantic PvP fight mechanism the game could double its success easely. Pity you don't see this. It's so evident to everyone who sees the videos objectively. Have you tried WAR PVP? It doesn't look slower than WoW PvP to me. The casting times seem similar the 2H weapon swing times seem similar.
I think that people are a bit clueless as to why WoW has so many. Casual game, good for people who are not gamers, families play, it's easy to get into, you don't have to dedicate your life to it (yet I know gamers feel you have to, however not one person I know who plays wow does - they just play to have fun), you don't have to pvp if you don't want but it's there if you do, etc.
Are you effing kidding me? WoW is the first game I ever heard of to hit the mainstream causing mass game addiction including being instrumental in divorce, dropping out of classes, girl friend's deleting chars, kids leaving home, violent crimes and dehydration. Yeah it may be possible to play wow casually but people don't. If war's going to be worse, which I doubt it is, I'll be very suprised. If it's actually worse at creating dronic WAR nerds and kids losing their base identities I'll stay far from it. Wow's a fun game but what it does to weak minds is down right sickening. And I really don't blame wow I blame the player.
I seriously believe WAR can actually take close to half of WoW's North American, Aussie, and European player base. China maybe not because they live off of the gold and item farming, China seems to love grinding as is evident by any MMO's coming from Asia, and WoW is a grind heavy game in the end. WAR is about PvP (RvR) action and large battles, and an ever changing landscape due to the war affecting it. They pretty much seem to eliminate the grind that many MMO's have. This is a key to drawing in players who want a quick 30 minutes or so of FUN play before bed time or whatever, and be able to accomplish something besides just griding.
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
While I agree I don't think the impact will be significant Your statement that people who just want to log in and do some quests chat and sign off won't be happy with WAR is completely baseless if not misguided. The entire game including the RvR and the Siege is set up so people with that particular playstyle can participate in EVERYTHING.
For Example ... If you log on and your realm has recently over taken someone's capital up to 12 to 24 hours your realm gets to hold onto that capital. Players can simply wander in go the Dungeons, PQ's and other PvE activities the enemy opened up for themselves and play them without having to do one lick of PvP.
Example 2 Public Quests...you can log in simply go to a PQ (there are TONS of them PER Tier PER REalm) and participate without having to find a group or do much of anything.
Example 3 Public Dungeons You can log in travel to the dungeon log in and pariticpate in the Public & Group Events inside the Dungeon and sign right on out.
Despite strange popular belief the game's mechanics are geared .. for everyone. Its not a PvP only game its an RvR game which means EVERYTHING counts. Its not a hardcore game and its not a casual game. Its an Everyone game..because everything a hardcore or a casual does counts towards the same goal.
It has far more to offer different types of players than any other current game. (im not saying its super unique revolutionary game mind you, just saying it has MORE than one player type in mind as far as content).
I seriously believe WAR can actually take close to half of WoW's North American, Aussie, and European player base. China maybe not because they live off of the gold and item farming, China seems to love grinding as is evident by any MMO's coming from Asia, and WoW is a grind heavy game in the end. WAR is about PvP (RvR) action and large battles, and an ever changing landscape due to the war affecting it. They pretty much seem to eliminate the grind that many MMO's have. This is a key to drawing in players who want a quick 30 minutes or so of FUN play before bed time or whatever, and be able to accomplish something besides just griding.
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
You ok Sovrath? Are you sure you're not mixing WoW and WAR up? One of the aims of WAR is to be MORE casual-friendly than WoW. In WoW, you sign in, do some quests, chat, and sign off. And feel like you accomplished next to nothing. In WAR you sign in, do a public quest, chat, sign off, and feel like you were part of a massive battle. You helped with only 15 minutes of time, or however much you had! And, if you want to go the solo path, the quests are just like WoW. So it's familiar and you can choose to do that if you want.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
WAR is not Wow and never will be. I hope it never will be or I will cancel my account way before I start to play. WOW is for simple one track mind people or AKA people with no life. A game that demands you to play it for 5+ hours or more a day I'm good without it. As for its commercial success, it can reach the 1 million sold copies status IF the things are polished enough in 2 months time. The buyers will be the same who tried AoC and the people wanting to have something else than Wow after 3 years. But 4 things hamper WAR's initial success (with AoC it stopped at the 700K point because of complete lack of polishment). 1. RvR play is very limited in play. DAoC showed this. After 3 months reconquering what you already conquered 10 times is lame. The progress of guilds and continued play needs to be through PVE and PvP . Pure PvP alone is not enough to a PAY to PLAY game. Else you can join the free TF2. You can't be serious can't you. RvR play is very limited in play. You do know DAOC has been around over 7 years and people have still been conquering and reconquering the same thing since it launched and they still love it. Why is that because there is a purpose behind it and it's called Realm Pride. 2. Because of the WAR casual play type (hardly any group forming) and "you just jump in" kinda thing, it will be VERY difficult to maintain guildies. The "jump in" system will hamper defense.... "we loose ... I leave" ... kinda thing and very little coordination will be possible. You do know why they made that system. So people don't have to waste their time spamming LFG or anyone LFG. If there anyone like we loose I leave thats on them. The die hard guilds will be there but because of the lack of serious end game PVE content, the goal will always be the RvR system which will be too repetitive for most players after a while. (I guess 3 months end game play) Have you even seen WAR PVE end game how do you know it will have a lack of PVE content. PVE my friend is always a repeat which is very lame PVP always a change because your always fighting someone different. 3. Personal gear progression is still the only driving force for indiviual MMO players. Hence why Wow is a success. So I hope for Mythic they didn't exclude it, because it is the MAIN driving force to "freeform" playing styles. Wow has a second driving force and that's "guild progression" through difficult PVE content through raids. This raid aspect is completely lacking in the end game of WAR and so will hamper long term interest. Interesting will be what Mythic did in the crafting department. This is the very reason why I hate WOW you telling me that if I don't have this gear I'm going to suck screw that I have to waste 5+ hours of my life to get this gear screw that to. I could be doing something more productive like having sex. 4. To me the MOST important factor is that PvP fights in WAR are far too slow and static as shown in every video available on the web. A LOT of Wow PvP players are interested.... but they will have the shock of their lives when they will be in these PvP fights and see the combat is not only 1/3 of the speeds they are used to and far from exciting. The "new" and "first impressions" will wear off very soon after the first playing days (just like the "new" combat of Conan did btw). Oh there will be very much "ecxited posts" no doubt about that, but the fights will very soon be compared to the market standard after the initial scream of "wow". A PvP game based on lame PvP fights isn't a good idea. All I have to say DAOC the PVP fights was just fine slow. Also WOW PVP was pure trash anyway didn't serve a single purpose. ---- Conclusion: Pure RvR already died with the demise of DAoC 3 to 4 years ago. A game based purely on RvR - without hi end raiding content - doesn't have a very long term appeal - by lack of choices. Do you really know what lead to DAOC demise it wasn't it PVP my friend it was 2 things one very poor advertisement and two a very bad expansion TOA a pure PVE expansion. A expansion that told people hey you got to grind hard at PVE or you will not survive in RVR. A pure PVP game can last a very long time if there is a purpose behind why you are PVPing.
WAR could do very well with 500K to even 750 K subscribers in its first two months, but their problem will be to keep up the sales of NEW users because the attrition rates after 3/4 months will be high. It could very well be under these figures if they don't do anything anymore on the speed and action of the dull PvP fighting animations and the end game coordinated Raid content. If you say so I could seee it in the millions my friend. Why oh why does every MMORPG's - launched these past 2 years - have characters with a 'stick in their ass" and walk like a moonrunner.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch Now Playing : Black Desert Online "America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
WAR is not Wow and never will be. I hope it never will be or I will cancel my account way before I start to play. WOW is for simple one track mind people or AKA people with no life. A game that demands you to play it for 5+ hours or more a day I'm good without it. As for its commercial success, it can reach the 1 million sold copies status IF the things are polished enough in 2 months time. The buyers will be the same who tried AoC and the people wanting to have something else than Wow after 3 years. But 4 things hamper WAR's initial success (with AoC it stopped at the 700K point because of complete lack of polishment). 1. RvR play is very limited in play. DAoC showed this. After 3 months reconquering what you already conquered 10 times is lame. The progress of guilds and continued play needs to be through PVE and PvP . Pure PvP alone is not enough to a PAY to PLAY game. Else you can join the free TF2. You can't be serious can't you. RvR play is very limited in play. You do know DAOC has been around over 7 years and people have still been conquering and reconquering the same thing since it launched and they still love it. Why is that because there is a purpose behind it and it's called Realm Pride. 2. Because of the WAR casual play type (hardly any group forming) and "you just jump in" kinda thing, it will be VERY difficult to maintain guildies. The "jump in" system will hamper defense.... "we loose ... I leave" ... kinda thing and very little coordination will be possible. You do know why they made that system. So people don't have to waste their time spamming LFG or anyone LFG. If there anyone like we loose I leave thats on them. The die hard guilds will be there but because of the lack of serious end game PVE content, the goal will always be the RvR system which will be too repetitive for most players after a while. (I guess 3 months end game play) Have you even seen WAR PVE end game how do you know it will have a lack of PVE content. PVE my friend is always a repeat which is very lame PVP always a change because your always fighting someone different. 3. Personal gear progression is still the only driving force for indiviual MMO players. Hence why Wow is a success. So I hope for Mythic they didn't exclude it, because it is the MAIN driving force to "freeform" playing styles. Wow has a second driving force and that's "guild progression" through difficult PVE content through raids. This raid aspect is completely lacking in the end game of WAR and so will hamper long term interest. Interesting will be what Mythic did in the crafting department. This is the very reason why I hate WOW you telling me that if I don't have this gear I'm going to suck screw that I have to waste 5+ hours of my life to get this gear screw that to. I could be doing something more productive like having sex. 4. To me the MOST important factor is that PvP fights in WAR are far too slow and static as shown in every video available on the web. A LOT of Wow PvP players are interested.... but they will have the shock of their lives when they will be in these PvP fights and see the combat is not only 1/3 of the speeds they are used to and far from exciting. The "new" and "first impressions" will wear off very soon after the first playing days (just like the "new" combat of Conan did btw). Oh there will be very much "ecxited posts" no doubt about that, but the fights will very soon be compared to the market standard after the initial scream of "wow". A PvP game based on lame PvP fights isn't a good idea. All I have to say DAOC the PVP fights was just fine slow. Also WOW PVP was pure trash anyway didn't serve a single purpose. ---- Conclusion: Pure RvR already died with the demise of DAoC 3 to 4 years ago. A game based purely on RvR - without hi end raiding content - doesn't have a very long term appeal - by lack of choices. Do you really know what lead to DAOC demise it wasn't it PVP my friend it was 2 things one very poor advertisement and two a very bad expansion TOA a pure PVE expansion. A expansion that told people hey you got to grind hard at PVE or you will not survive in RVR. A pure PVP game can last a very long time if there is a purpose behind why you are PVPing.
WAR could do very well with 500K to even 750 K subscribers in its first two months, but their problem will be to keep up the sales of NEW users because the attrition rates after 3/4 months will be high. It could very well be under these figures if they don't do anything anymore on the speed and action of the dull PvP fighting animations and the end game coordinated Raid content. If you say so I could seee it in the millions my friend. Why oh why does every MMORPG's - launched these past 2 years - have characters with a 'stick in their ass" and walk like a moonrunner.
Rav...you didn't need to respond to Vick.
He's just a troll that likes to hang around here, but very good response.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Cream rises to the top. If WAR delivers what everyone hopes it will it should have no problems growing a strong customer base. WOW is like any major big daddy company with the volumes it currently has world wide nothing will kill it anytime soon.
Frankly I hope WAR is the game that start bringing more people from the mainstream in to MMO's as long as they don't try the console cop out dumb the game down.
Cream rises to the top. If WAR delivers what everyone hopes it will it should have no problems growing a strong customer base. WOW is like any major big daddy company with the volumes it currently has world wide nothing will kill it anytime soon. Frankly I hope WAR is the game that start bringing more people from the mainstream in to MMO's as long as they don't try the console cop out dumb the game down.
I think WoW already brought the mainstream into MMO's. I don't think there's much mainstream left to bring in at this point.
WAR is not Wow and never will be. I hope it never will be or I will cancel my account way before I start to play. WOW is for simple one track mind people or AKA people with no life. A game that demands you to play it for 5+ hours or more a day I'm good without it. If you think that Wow is a pure raiding game you need to raid for hours on end. Guess what : it changed to a multiple choice MMORPG. The game you are talking about doesn't even exist anymore. It has NOW choices of raids, dungeons, heroic dungeons Battlegrounds, Arena's, Daily quests in ALL categories (from crafting to world PvP). So you choose HOW to play, and WHEN you play in Wow anno 2008. As for its commercial success, it can reach the 1 million sold copies status IF the things are polished enough in 2 months time. The buyers will be the same who tried AoC and the people wanting to have something else than Wow after 3 years. But 4 things hamper WAR's initial success (with AoC it stopped at the 700K point because of complete lack of polishment). 1. RvR play is very limited in play. DAoC showed this. After 3 months reconquering what you already conquered 10 times is lame. The progress of guilds and continued play needs to be through PVE and PvP . Pure PvP alone is not enough to a PAY to PLAY game. Else you can join the free TF2. You can't be serious can't you. RvR play is very limited in play. You do know DAOC has been around over 7 years and people have still been conquering and reconquering the same thing since it launched and they still love it. Why is that because there is a purpose behind it and it's called Realm Pride. DAoC is now in ....position 168 of PC's games played on Xfire with a value of 696 hours (compared to 420.000 hours of that other game). Subs are estimated at 70K at the momentt. See: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html . 2. Because of the WAR casual play type (hardly any group forming) and "you just jump in" kinda thing, it will be VERY difficult to maintain guildies. The "jump in" system will hamper defense.... "we loose ... I leave" ... kinda thing and very little coordination will be possible. You do know why they made that system. So people don't have to waste their time spamming LFG or anyone LFG. If there anyone like we loose I leave thats on them. The die hard guilds will be there but because of the lack of serious end game PVE content, the goal will always be the RvR system which will be too repetitive for most players after a while. (I guess 3 months end game play) Have you even seen WAR PVE end game how do you know it will have a lack of PVE content. PVE my friend is always a repeat which is very lame PVP always a change because your always fighting someone different. Raiding PVE is progress through the different dungeons and raids, which becomes harder and harder for the guild progress. This is the hardcore where the rest of the game is build upon. As only 1.5 % downed the 3rd and 4rd boss of the last raids, it is clearly an ever changing progress. 3. Personal gear progression is still the only driving force for indiviual MMO players. Hence why Wow is a success. So I hope for Mythic they didn't exclude it, because it is the MAIN driving force to "freeform" playing styles. Wow has a second driving force and that's "guild progression" through difficult PVE content through raids. This raid aspect is completely lacking in the end game of WAR and so will hamper long term interest. Interesting will be what Mythic did in the crafting department. This is the very reason why I hate WOW you telling me that if I don't have this gear I'm going to suck screw that I have to waste 5+ hours of my life to get this gear screw that to. I could be doing something more productive like having sex. Than have sex, because the life time cycle of an MMORPG which is NOT based on character progress in its end game is very limited indeed. Better play TF2 than and have sex, but don't play MMORPG's. 4. To me the MOST important factor is that PvP fights in WAR are far too slow and static as shown in every video available on the web. A LOT of Wow PvP players are interested.... but they will have the shock of their lives when they will be in these PvP fights and see the combat is not only 1/3 of the speeds they are used to and far from exciting. The "new" and "first impressions" will wear off very soon after the first playing days (just like the "new" combat of Conan did btw). Oh there will be very much "ecxited posts" no doubt about that, but the fights will very soon be compared to the market standard after the initial scream of "wow". A PvP game based on lame PvP fights isn't a good idea. All I have to say DAOC the PVP fights was just fine slow. Also WOW PVP was pure trash anyway didn't serve a single purpose. That's why WOW has the only PVP e-sports competition of all MMORPG's with thousands of dollars of price money and has a zillion arena movies on the web I suppose.? I suppose gaining thousands of dollars in dozens of competitions doesn't "serve a single puprose"; )) Man there are at the moment a few hundred professional PvP players in Wow. Welcome to July 2008 ! ---- Conclusion: Pure RvR already died with the demise of DAoC 3 to 4 years ago. A game based purely on RvR - without hi end raiding content - doesn't have a very long term appeal - by lack of choices. Do you really know what lead to DAOC demise it wasn't it PVP my friend it was 2 things one very poor advertisement and two a very bad expansion TOA a pure PVE expansion. A expansion that told people hey you got to grind hard at PVE or you will not survive in RVR. A pure PVP game can last a very long time if there is a purpose behind why you are PVPing. Well indeed they saw too late that PvP only was too little to play the game for extended periods of time. That's why I said : too little too late
WAR could do very well with 500K to even 750 K subscribers in its first two months, but their problem will be to keep up the sales of NEW users because the attrition rates after 3/4 months will be high. It could very well be under these figures if they don't do anything anymore on the speed and action of the dull PvP fighting animations and the end game coordinated Raid content. If you say so I could seee it in the millions my friend. Be careful !!! The last ones who said this were the Conan fanboys. They had a MILLION Beta demands remember (WAR has 750K), and look where AoC is now... out of the top 30 of PC sales on amazon.com. Yeps bye bye multimillion sellers. Why oh why does every MMORPG's - launched these past 2 years - have characters with a 'stick in their ass" and walk like a moonrunner. No Comment on this line? While it is perhaps the most important line of the whole thread. How can you even mention PvP if you have to play with stiff, floating, static, slow moving characters at half the speed the compettition is offering. Give me the videos of fast frantic PvP fights in WAR and i'll admit they will have a hit. Till now, there has not been ONE video that had anything to show in this department. Fast and speedy fights that's what PvP people want.
WAR is not Wow and never will be. I hope it never will be or I will cancel my account way before I start to play. WOW is for simple one track mind people or AKA people with no life. A game that demands you to play it for 5+ hours or more a day I'm good without it. If you think that Wow is a pure raiding game you need to raid for hours on end. Guess what : it changed to a multiple choice MMORPG. The game you are talking about doesn't even exist anymore. It has NOW choices of raids, dungeons, heroic dungeons Battlegrounds, Arena's, Daily quests in ALL categories (from crafting to world PvP). So you choose HOW to play, and WHEN you play in Wow anno 2008. As for its commercial success, it can reach the 1 million sold copies status IF the things are polished enough in 2 months time. The buyers will be the same who tried AoC and the people wanting to have something else than Wow after 3 years. But 4 things hamper WAR's initial success (with AoC it stopped at the 700K point because of complete lack of polishment). 1. RvR play is very limited in play. DAoC showed this. After 3 months reconquering what you already conquered 10 times is lame. The progress of guilds and continued play needs to be through PVE and PvP . Pure PvP alone is not enough to a PAY to PLAY game. Else you can join the free TF2. You can't be serious can't you. RvR play is very limited in play. You do know DAOC has been around over 7 years and people have still been conquering and reconquering the same thing since it launched and they still love it. Why is that because there is a purpose behind it and it's called Realm Pride. DAoC is now in ....position 168 of PC's games played on Xfire with a value of 696 hours (compared to 420.000 hours of that other game). Subs are estimated at 70K at the momentt. See: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html . 2. Because of the WAR casual play type (hardly any group forming) and "you just jump in" kinda thing, it will be VERY difficult to maintain guildies. The "jump in" system will hamper defense.... "we loose ... I leave" ... kinda thing and very little coordination will be possible. You do know why they made that system. So people don't have to waste their time spamming LFG or anyone LFG. If there anyone like we loose I leave thats on them. The die hard guilds will be there but because of the lack of serious end game PVE content, the goal will always be the RvR system which will be too repetitive for most players after a while. (I guess 3 months end game play) Have you even seen WAR PVE end game how do you know it will have a lack of PVE content. PVE my friend is always a repeat which is very lame PVP always a change because your always fighting someone different. Raiding PVE is progress through the different dungeons and raids, which becomes harder and harder for the guild progress. This is the hardcore where the rest of the game is build upon. As only 1.5 % downed the 3rd and 4rd boss of the last raids, it is clearly an ever changing progress. 3. Personal gear progression is still the only driving force for indiviual MMO players. Hence why Wow is a success. So I hope for Mythic they didn't exclude it, because it is the MAIN driving force to "freeform" playing styles. Wow has a second driving force and that's "guild progression" through difficult PVE content through raids. This raid aspect is completely lacking in the end game of WAR and so will hamper long term interest. Interesting will be what Mythic did in the crafting department. This is the very reason why I hate WOW you telling me that if I don't have this gear I'm going to suck screw that I have to waste 5+ hours of my life to get this gear screw that to. I could be doing something more productive like having sex. Than have sex, because the life time cycle of an MMORPG which is NOT based on character progress in its end game is very limited indeed. Better play TF2 than and have sex, but don't play MMORPG's. 4. To me the MOST important factor is that PvP fights in WAR are far too slow and static as shown in every video available on the web. A LOT of Wow PvP players are interested.... but they will have the shock of their lives when they will be in these PvP fights and see the combat is not only 1/3 of the speeds they are used to and far from exciting. The "new" and "first impressions" will wear off very soon after the first playing days (just like the "new" combat of Conan did btw). Oh there will be very much "ecxited posts" no doubt about that, but the fights will very soon be compared to the market standard after the initial scream of "wow". A PvP game based on lame PvP fights isn't a good idea. All I have to say DAOC the PVP fights was just fine slow. Also WOW PVP was pure trash anyway didn't serve a single purpose. That's why WOW has the only PVP e-sports competition of all MMORPG's with thousands of dollars of price money and has a zillion arena movies on the web I suppose.? I suppose gaining thousands of dollars in dozens of competitions doesn't "serve a single puprose"; )) Man there are at the moment a few hundred professional PvP players in Wow. Welcome to July 2008 ! ---- Conclusion: Pure RvR already died with the demise of DAoC 3 to 4 years ago. A game based purely on RvR - without hi end raiding content - doesn't have a very long term appeal - by lack of choices. Do you really know what lead to DAOC demise it wasn't it PVP my friend it was 2 things one very poor advertisement and two a very bad expansion TOA a pure PVE expansion. A expansion that told people hey you got to grind hard at PVE or you will not survive in RVR. A pure PVP game can last a very long time if there is a purpose behind why you are PVPing. Well indeed they saw too late that PvP only was too little to play the game for extended periods of time. That's why I said : too little too late
WAR could do very well with 500K to even 750 K subscribers in its first two months, but their problem will be to keep up the sales of NEW users because the attrition rates after 3/4 months will be high. It could very well be under these figures if they don't do anything anymore on the speed and action of the dull PvP fighting animations and the end game coordinated Raid content. If you say so I could seee it in the millions my friend. Be careful !!! The last ones who said this were the Conan fanboys. They had a MILLION Beta demands remember (WAR has 750K), and look where AoC is now... out of the top 30 of PC sales on amazon.com. Yeps bye bye multimillion sellers. Why oh why does every MMORPG's - launched these past 2 years - have characters with a 'stick in their ass" and walk like a moonrunner. No Comment on this line? While it is perhaps the most important line of the whole thread. How can you even mention PvP if you have to play with stiff, floating, static, slow moving characters at half the speed the compettition is offering. Give me the videos of fast frantic PvP fights in WAR and i'll admit they will have a hit. Till now, there has not been ONE video that had anything to show in this department. Fast and speedy fights that's what PvP people want.
1.) Lol...so you either grind the same mobs over and over again so you can get geared...to go grind gear again OR you can go grind arenas/battlegrounds to get honor to get the next season of gear...and then go back and grind some more honor to get the next season. FUN FUN! Then you can go grind the same dailies over and over again to get just enough gold to go get your epic flying mount. Yah...so many fun options
2.) The reason for the low subs isn't because the RvR is bad...it's because they had one bad expansion. I've meet people who have played DAoC for nearly 5 years and still love it.
3.) Because grinding those same mobs day after day for that one piece of gear that finally shows up, but the other player wins the roll is ever changing
4.) What he's saying is that when he gets to endgame, he doesn't want to grind forever to get gear so that he can have a chance at taking on the big guys.
5.) PvP is always different. You're very rarely in the same situation as before. In WoW...PvP would be fun if it had a purpose, but it doesn't. All you are doing is grinding gear so that you can sit in Arenas and grind some more honor for the next season. This E-sport crap is not fun. I don't want to sit in a tiny arena and fight 2 other people...I want to go out and slaughter hundreds of people.
6.) I don't care about winning money. I want to have a fuckin good time. I don't PvP because I want cash. I PvP because I want to DESTROY shit.
7.) We'll have to wait and see. I hope it gets a few million subs.
8.) Vick...you keep bringing up the same dead horse and beating him. Wait for god damn launch and decide if it's 'static' or 'slow'. You can't decide on Beta videos...because chances are that Launch will be more polished than Beta.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
That's why WOW has the only PVP e-sports competition of all MMORPG's with thousands of dollars of price money and has a zillion arena movies on the web I suppose.? I suppose gaining thousands of dollars in dozens of competitions doesn't "serve a single puprose"; )) Man there are at the moment a few hundred professional PvP players in Wow. Welcome to July 2008 !
Wow, seriously? If you didnt cement in everyones minds that you had no clue what you were talking about before, you did just now.
Guild Wars.
Try again.
And if I remember right, Guild Wars had their for cash tourneys a good deal before WoW.
Something you WoW fanatics need to learn, WoW has done NOTHING original, they just copied off of everyone else around them, and the fanboi's and people who never played anything else before just assume that they were pioneers in the field.
5.) PvP is always different. You're very rarely in the same situation as before. In WoW...PvP would be fun if it had a purpose, but it doesn't. All you are doing is grinding gear so that you can sit in Arenas and grind some more honor for the next season. This E-sport crap is not fun. I don't want to sit in a tiny arena and fight 2 other people...I want to go out and slaughter hundreds of people. ... I don't want to reply to every point because downing a boss in a raid instance is hardly "grind", nor is the crafting and selling of the goods on the AH. But point 5 is interesting/ PvP - you say - in Wow has no purpose (only "grinding" gear for your character), but what is the purpose in WAR? Conquering the already conquered many times over. I hope for the players of WAR it will have something for them and their avatars and it better be gear or improving your character.... Take the example of Conan: gathering professions (you would call it grinding) for days and weeks, then constructing a level 3 City, then gathering professions for days and weeks,... then constructing a keep..... Then have that famous - you have been waiting for weeks - siege battle - then loose it and .... the cycle begins again. So exciting. It shows that PvP mechanics don't work long enough to keep playing beyond the Xth time. Already most hi end Conan guilds left the game because they saw it, they did it, they know it. The beauty of a MMORPG is the CHOICES of PVE, PVP, crafting, competetion. It is rather simple: the more choices the more players the more time sinks, the more subs. 6.) I don't care about winning money. I want to have a fuckin good time. I don't PvP because I want cash. I PvP because I want to DESTROY shit. You want to destroy ..."shit". Ok. You want good and massively played PvP without too much rewards. Stats are on these kinds of playings: twinks don't last long, because PAID PvP just for the fun of it doesn't last long (2 to 3 months at the most). 7.) We'll have to wait and see. I hope it gets a few million subs. The floating MMORPG market is about 700K to 800K, Conan proved that two months ago. And Conan had 300K more Beta applications than Warhammer. Selling these numbers is not the problem: holding on to 500 K after the initial 3 months will be a hell of a fight. I gave the reasons, you gave yours. Since I know I was right all along with Vanguard, LOTRO, TR and Conan, I think I know what Warhammer lacks. I knew the weak spots in those other games months before launch. (unfinished, no factions, space shooter to kill boars in 2D frontiers, and ridiculous graphics requirements for an MMORPG were the 4 other). Add the no PvP battle feeling for a pure PvP game in WAR and I am in for another home run in predictions.
8.) Vick...you keep bringing up the same dead horse and beating him. Wait for god damn launch and decide if it's 'static' or 'slow'. You can't decide on Beta videos...because chances are that Launch will be more polished than Beta.
That's why WOW has the only PVP e-sports competition of all MMORPG's with thousands of dollars of price money and has a zillion arena movies on the web I suppose.? I suppose gaining thousands of dollars in dozens of competitions doesn't "serve a single puprose"; )) Man there are at the moment a few hundred professional PvP players in Wow. Welcome to July 2008 !
Wow, seriously? If you didnt cement in everyones minds that you had no clue what you were talking about before, you did just now.
Guild Wars.
Try again.
And if I remember right, Guild Wars had their for cash tourneys a good deal before WoW.
Something you WoW fanatics need to learn, WoW has done NOTHING original, they just copied off of everyone else around them, and the fanboi's and people who never played anything else before just assume that they were pioneers in the field.
GW is not a paid MMORPG. the makers of GW themselevs say they don't consider it a real MMORPG.
If GW had a subscription rate, meaning PAYING to play it, it would be down to a very small user base.
In this it isn't even represented in the official stats of MMORPG's.
I just have to point out again that vick says that people will only pay for a grind, not for fun. thats right, people don't want "fun" in their game, they want to grind for gear.
honestly how can anyone say that and not shoot themselves? a game needs less fun and more grind in order to be good.
This... this just blows my mind, that anyone would even pretend to think that way. "no way guys, that game has way too much fun, people won't pay to PLAY a game, they want to run the same dungons/BGs ect over and over to get their tier 56 gear, and thats the only reason people pay for MMOs"
gah, I need to go put some salt in an open wound or something.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
If we're working under the assumption that WAR gets WoW numbers (it won't) then yeah, you'll see the same phenomenon occur where you get forum trolls everywhere talking about how horrible the game is...it's just a side effect of having so many players, some people who try it are bound to hate it...unfortunately many of the people who hate it will have never played it (I slapped down a troll yesterday who was talking about WoW even though he had never even played it and "hated it before it even came out" in his own words)
Once again though, WAR will never have WoW numbers...hell, even a second WoW, or a world of Starcraft would probably not garner the same numbers as WoW has
PS. WoW is to E-sports as Poker is to athletic competition. Until WoW has classes that are balanced around one on one, making arena games based upon player skill rather than class composition, it will never be an E-sport, it will only be druids, rogues, and warriors fighting eachother in a small space.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Comments
After reading some of your posts Vicksburg, I have to give you the tittle of the 11 year old kid, for being such a fanboy and knowing nothing at all.
No such thing as luck, just believing in it is what makes it real to you and really...thats all you need.
Im on nobodies' side but my own.
I believe WoW will start copying features that WAR currently has implemented (cough achievement system).
And to those who think it ruined MMO's it really set a new standard, sure it ruined SWG but thats one casualty on the way to better games, companies just now need to start expanding on World of Warcraft concepts and move ahead and use some of the those instead of all for the basis of theirs.
Honestly, did Vick just say that grinding is better than fun? people won't pay for FUN? they'll only pay to grind for gear?
does he really believe what he says?
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
DAoC had no raid-content.
Except of Dragons, 2 RvR-Dungeons, 6(?) SI-Dungeons, 10 ToA-Dungeons, Relic-Keeps...did I forget something?
Are you effing kidding me? WoW is the first game I ever heard of to hit the mainstream causing mass game addiction including being instrumental in divorce, dropping out of classes, girl friend's deleting chars, kids leaving home, violent crimes and dehydration. Yeah it may be possible to play wow casually but people don't. If war's going to be worse, which I doubt it is, I'll be very suprised. If it's actually worse at creating dronic WAR nerds and kids losing their base identities I'll stay far from it. Wow's a fun game but what it does to weak minds is down right sickening. And I really don't blame wow I blame the player.
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
While I agree I don't think the impact will be significant Your statement that people who just want to log in and do some quests chat and sign off won't be happy with WAR is completely baseless if not misguided. The entire game including the RvR and the Siege is set up so people with that particular playstyle can participate in EVERYTHING.
For Example ... If you log on and your realm has recently over taken someone's capital up to 12 to 24 hours your realm gets to hold onto that capital. Players can simply wander in go the Dungeons, PQ's and other PvE activities the enemy opened up for themselves and play them without having to do one lick of PvP.
Example 2 Public Quests...you can log in simply go to a PQ (there are TONS of them PER Tier PER REalm) and participate without having to find a group or do much of anything.
Example 3 Public Dungeons You can log in travel to the dungeon log in and pariticpate in the Public & Group Events inside the Dungeon and sign right on out.
Despite strange popular belief the game's mechanics are geared .. for everyone. Its not a PvP only game its an RvR game which means EVERYTHING counts. Its not a hardcore game and its not a casual game. Its an Everyone game..because everything a hardcore or a casual does counts towards the same goal.
It has far more to offer different types of players than any other current game. (im not saying its super unique revolutionary game mind you, just saying it has MORE than one player type in mind as far as content).
Yes but you are assuming that people want to pvp. Yes, I know War will have PvE content but I don't think it will appeal to people who just want to sign in, do some quests, chat and sign off.
War will not have a huge impact on WoW numbers, Even their CEO acknowledges this.
And this is ok. People need to discount WoW as far as comparison. WoW is far beyond a mere online game (whether people like the game or not).
If Warhammer gets and maintaines 250k then it is a success.
You ok Sovrath? Are you sure you're not mixing WoW and WAR up? One of the aims of WAR is to be MORE casual-friendly than WoW. In WoW, you sign in, do some quests, chat, and sign off. And feel like you accomplished next to nothing. In WAR you sign in, do a public quest, chat, sign off, and feel like you were part of a massive battle. You helped with only 15 minutes of time, or however much you had! And, if you want to go the solo path, the quests are just like WoW. So it's familiar and you can choose to do that if you want.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
War is what WoW should have been. All I can say.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
Pre-TOA I PvPed 99% of the time.
Rav...you didn't need to respond to Vick.
He's just a troll that likes to hang around here, but very good response.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Ravkeen,
All those hours you don't want to waste on playing a game you should put to good use learning English grammar.
Couldn't help myself, back to the thread at hand.
_____________________________
If you are insulted by being called a fanboi it's a good bet that you are one
Cream rises to the top. If WAR delivers what everyone hopes it will it should have no problems growing a strong customer base. WOW is like any major big daddy company with the volumes it currently has world wide nothing will kill it anytime soon.
Frankly I hope WAR is the game that start bringing more people from the mainstream in to MMO's as long as they don't try the console cop out dumb the game down.
I think WoW already brought the mainstream into MMO's. I don't think there's much mainstream left to bring in at this point.
What is this obsession with, "killing WoW". Who cares if a game is going to 'best' WoW.. if the game is good, it is good and people will play.
McDonalds is popular, but not necessarily good. Wendy's is better imho, but it never 'killed McDonalds".. who cares, just.. who cares.
plus wendy's has square hamburgers! might be minor but at least it is different!
1.) Lol...so you either grind the same mobs over and over again so you can get geared...to go grind gear again OR you can go grind arenas/battlegrounds to get honor to get the next season of gear...and then go back and grind some more honor to get the next season. FUN FUN! Then you can go grind the same dailies over and over again to get just enough gold to go get your epic flying mount. Yah...so many fun options
2.) The reason for the low subs isn't because the RvR is bad...it's because they had one bad expansion. I've meet people who have played DAoC for nearly 5 years and still love it.
3.) Because grinding those same mobs day after day for that one piece of gear that finally shows up, but the other player wins the roll is ever changing
4.) What he's saying is that when he gets to endgame, he doesn't want to grind forever to get gear so that he can have a chance at taking on the big guys.
5.) PvP is always different. You're very rarely in the same situation as before. In WoW...PvP would be fun if it had a purpose, but it doesn't. All you are doing is grinding gear so that you can sit in Arenas and grind some more honor for the next season. This E-sport crap is not fun. I don't want to sit in a tiny arena and fight 2 other people...I want to go out and slaughter hundreds of people.
6.) I don't care about winning money. I want to have a fuckin good time. I don't PvP because I want cash. I PvP because I want to DESTROY shit.
7.) We'll have to wait and see. I hope it gets a few million subs.
8.) Vick...you keep bringing up the same dead horse and beating him. Wait for god damn launch and decide if it's 'static' or 'slow'. You can't decide on Beta videos...because chances are that Launch will be more polished than Beta.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Wow, seriously? If you didnt cement in everyones minds that you had no clue what you were talking about before, you did just now.
Guild Wars.
Try again.
And if I remember right, Guild Wars had their for cash tourneys a good deal before WoW.
Something you WoW fanatics need to learn, WoW has done NOTHING original, they just copied off of everyone else around them, and the fanboi's and people who never played anything else before just assume that they were pioneers in the field.
Wow, seriously? If you didnt cement in everyones minds that you had no clue what you were talking about before, you did just now.
Guild Wars.
Try again.
And if I remember right, Guild Wars had their for cash tourneys a good deal before WoW.
Something you WoW fanatics need to learn, WoW has done NOTHING original, they just copied off of everyone else around them, and the fanboi's and people who never played anything else before just assume that they were pioneers in the field.
GW is not a paid MMORPG. the makers of GW themselevs say they don't consider it a real MMORPG.
If GW had a subscription rate, meaning PAYING to play it, it would be down to a very small user base.
In this it isn't even represented in the official stats of MMORPG's.
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html
I just have to point out again that vick says that people will only pay for a grind, not for fun. thats right, people don't want "fun" in their game, they want to grind for gear.
honestly how can anyone say that and not shoot themselves? a game needs less fun and more grind in order to be good.
This... this just blows my mind, that anyone would even pretend to think that way. "no way guys, that game has way too much fun, people won't pay to PLAY a game, they want to run the same dungons/BGs ect over and over to get their tier 56 gear, and thats the only reason people pay for MMOs"
gah, I need to go put some salt in an open wound or something.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
If we're working under the assumption that WAR gets WoW numbers (it won't) then yeah, you'll see the same phenomenon occur where you get forum trolls everywhere talking about how horrible the game is...it's just a side effect of having so many players, some people who try it are bound to hate it...unfortunately many of the people who hate it will have never played it (I slapped down a troll yesterday who was talking about WoW even though he had never even played it and "hated it before it even came out" in his own words)
Once again though, WAR will never have WoW numbers...hell, even a second WoW, or a world of Starcraft would probably not garner the same numbers as WoW has
PS. WoW is to E-sports as Poker is to athletic competition. Until WoW has classes that are balanced around one on one, making arena games based upon player skill rather than class composition, it will never be an E-sport, it will only be druids, rogues, and warriors fighting eachother in a small space.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.