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Would you play a forced grouping game?
gillvane1
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,503
Would you play a forced grouping game?
In otherwords, this game would not be like WoW, where you can do almost all the quests by yourself, and you can group if you want to, but it's not necessary because you level just as fast not grouping. (I"m talking about pre-max level, i.e. BEFORE WoW turns into a raiding game).
I'm not saying you couldn't do ANYTHING without a group, but leveling (or gaining skill points in a skill based game) would be 4 or 5 times slower solo than in a decent group.
You could access all the content, and get all the same gear, but you'd have to level, and come back to lower level zones to do some of the dungeons solo to get the gear, etc.
Comments
Soo you mean kind of how FFXI did it?
If so then yes, I would love to play a new mmo that forced players to grouping if they want to advance in levels at a fair rate.
So tired of every mmo I play and no one wants to group
The post/question makes no sense to me.
Edit: Oh, you edited the OP. It was cornfusing before.
Yes and no. Forced grouping yes, not necessarily as much of a grind as FFXI.
Not only am I sick of games where you don't have to group, but in games like WoW, even groups aren't that much fun, because they don't require that much teamwork.
It seems like pre-raid level in WoW, a group was almost the same as playing solo. IN other words, a group of 5 players could run around and kill mobs almost like they were playing solo, whereas in a good grouping game, you made much better xp by working together really well, and if you didn't pay attention you got the party wiped.
I like that sort of game play.
Sorry. It was confusing before.
I would really love for an MMO to put into place several incentives for grouping through the game. Maybe make it so certain player classes and skill-combinations need other player classes in order to be effective in combat - I've seen this kind of thing in crafting (one crafting profession requiring components crafted by another profession in order to build something), so why not implement it in everything else? For example, in real combat, a sniper will always need a spotter, and vice-versa - I think it would be awesome if MMOs had that inter-class dependency.
But yes, I would probably play an MMO focused on grouping. The only thing is that the MMO would also have to support a very active and robust player population, otherwise you'll just have a bunch of people sitting around and twiddling their thumbs.
I play FFXI, so I *do* play a forced grouping game, which works pretty much exactly as you have described it. And I enjoy it a lot, as do a lot of other people.
Forced Grouping is a big no-no.
These games can be fun if you have a core group of friends that play 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, but otherwise, the pain in the ass it is to find groups of non-idiots of the appropriate classes/and or skills and levels is a titanic nightmare.
Grouping doesn't necessarily take more skill than soloing, often, the reverse is true. Only when you truly challenge the group does grouping require much skill at all. A level 50 soloing level 50 stuff is more difficult than a group of level 50's grinding level 50 stuff to gain xp at a maximum rate with no chance of death.
I was given a free month of Vanguard here this month and because of its "Vision" (tm) system, I'm almost stuck at level 18 because 95% of my quests are group only and I can't find a group (I've managed to group *gasp* twice in 18 levels for a quest).
Sure, it isn't as much of an issue in a hugely popular (or at least, populated) game when it comes out (AoC and LOTRO come to mind), but if you fall behind the leveling curve, you're doomed.
Grouping should be a fun alternative for a challenge, not a requirement. It should be faster than soloing IF you are going up against challenging content, not just grinding easy stuff with no fear of wiping. But often, game companies CAN'T reward groupers with more than just the better loot drops because of the botters out there will do 6 chars at once to maximize their xp gain, etc.
no matter what people say about how succesful ffxi is, it's not compared to any non-grouping game, the games fail because groups become a hastle and pre-build settup such as if you have this, this, this and this in your group you cant fail, otherwise you always fail. the system doesnt work in the same sense that not every active gamer plays at the same time so grouping becomes half or moreso of your played time
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IVE PLAYED WOW AND LIKED IT SO IM A FANBOI PLZ FLAME MY THREADS CUZ I MIGHT MENTION WOW
Ahhh... the gold ol' days.
I can remember a time when I was playing Ultima Online, (I alpha tested that game back in 1995)... shows my age, and I remember a time in Everquest a time where you had to group or you just couldn't get things done.
It was fun... it was having skill, MEETING NEW PEOPLE *COUGH* (People are so scared of actually doing this in new MMORPGs), becoming friends and enjoying each others company... so if I had to be forced into a group style MMORPG, yes I would enjoy it.
I know you would get the kiddies who play the game crying how bad it is, but on the same side you would get people (like myself) who actually enjoy the MMO - RPG aspects of the game.
*SIGH*
QFE
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
I'm speaking of my personal experiences from years ago. I understand that with time, comes change. With newer, faster computers, come less ability to think and less wanting to wait for anything (Especially in a MMORPG environment).
Yes, even in my days of the golden years I had the idiot, griefer, scammer, but they were no where like they are today. So it was easy and most people who did play MMORPGs actually wanted to play for fun... not to grief, etc.
Today it seems that the games aren't about the levels, but about how fast you get to the end, and how fast you get that "phat 1007". Whatever happened to actually exploring and enjoying what the programmers, artist, etc put into the game?
Now it's just a bunch of kids (which is seems to be IMHO) who just want PVP and nothing else.
Probably why I haven't played a MMORPG since the days of EQ2.
I love to make stuff in a group, PUG or friends. I have really good memories of grouping in Vanguard Beta, Anarchy Online, and DDO.
I don't really like soloing in MMORPG games. I have better singleplayer games on my collection...
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
I'm speaking of my personal experiences from years ago. I understand that with time, comes change. With newer, faster computers, come less ability to think and less wanting to wait for anything (Especially in a MMORPG environment).
Yes, even in my days of the golden years I had the idiot, griefer, scammer, but they were no where like they are today. So it was easy and most people who did play MMORPGs actually wanted to play for fun... not to grief, etc.
Today it seems that the games aren't about the levels, but about how fast you get to the end, and how fast you get that "phat 1007". Whatever happened to actually exploring and enjoying what the programmers, artist, etc put into the game?
Now it's just a bunch of kids (which is seems to be IMHO) who just want PVP and nothing else.
Probably why I haven't played a MMORPG since the days of EQ2.
I don't think it's very fair to start placing blame on younger players for the general lack of maturity and obsession with player conflict in MMOs nowadays - I've encountered assholes well into their 30s and 40s. Like it or not, the MMO genre is not as exclusive as it used to be - the player base has diversified a lot when compared to the gamers that made up EQ and UO pre-21st century.
My main beef with the MMORPGs of today is that they place too much of an emphasis on individual achievement. What's the point in playing an MMO if you get the same experience from playing a single player game?
So if you want to solo, why not play a single player RPG? Just a suggestion.
I play MMO-RPGs for what the game was made for...
I understand that some days you don't want to group, and I've had many days like that... but usually 8-10 times things are just a lot more fun with real people.
Take Guild Wars for example... ever since Heros were introduced, it was next to impossible to group. I didn't want to ever do PvE for the fact of people refusing all the time because a hero is easier.
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
In my experiences with games like EQ, EQ2, FF11, CoX, and other group heavy games, I have found most people i've met in groups to usually be nice, sharing, decently skilled people. WoW, on the other hand, has one of the worst MMO communities i've seen, and since soling is so easy, when you do group with people at higher levels, it's a crapshoop to see if they have any skill or not. The previous games I mentioned (among others) are much more community based, and if you are indeed a idiot/griefer/scammer/ninja looter then word spreads around and these people get groups less often. I play WoW and enjoy it, but it's community is not something that should be seen as the regular MMO community.
It can require some skill to find the right quest or find the right mobs to grind for the make up of the group. But I"m more concerned not with rewarding "skill" of grouping, but rewarding the time spent on finding groups and keeping them together.
WAR has an interesting grouping mechanism. You can form open groups. Players don't have to contact you first, and ask to join if you make your group "open". They can just instantly join. If they are asshats, you just kick them out, but it gets the whole thing going very quickly.
In this example above, you could have joined lots of groups that were "open". you just click on the list and join, that's it.
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
In my experiences with games like EQ, EQ2, FF11, CoX, and other group heavy games, I have found most people i've met in groups to usually be nice, sharing, decently skilled people. WoW, on the other hand, has one of the worst MMO communities i've seen, and since soling is so easy, when you do group with people at higher levels, it's a crapshoop to see if they have any skill or not. The previous games I mentioned (among others) are much more community based, and if you are indeed a idiot/griefer/scammer/ninja looter then word spreads around and these people get groups less often. I play WoW and enjoy it, but it's community is not something that should be seen as the regular MMO community.
That's a good point. A forced grouping game, that requires you to group fairly early to make decent progress, will probably weed out most of the socially inept fairly early on in the game.
I realize that's not necessarily in the developers interest, since they don't care if you are socially inept or not, they just want your 14.95.
I played and loved FFXI for two years.
would i do it again in a different game?
absolutely.
The problem is that 90% or more of the people you meet are idiots/griefers/scammers/loot thieves.
So most people find a group of friends and stick with it, and won't group with anyone they don't know because:
The risk is not worth the reward from grouping.
In my experiences with games like EQ, EQ2, FF11, CoX, and other group heavy games, I have found most people i've met in groups to usually be nice, sharing, decently skilled people. WoW, on the other hand, has one of the worst MMO communities i've seen, and since soling is so easy, when you do group with people at higher levels, it's a crapshoop to see if they have any skill or not. The previous games I mentioned (among others) are much more community based, and if you are indeed a idiot/griefer/scammer/ninja looter then word spreads around and these people get groups less often. I play WoW and enjoy it, but it's community is not something that should be seen as the regular MMO community.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I guess comparing group based games (as the ones you've mentioned) and an easier style game (WoW, which is super mindlessly easy), each side usually has something to say about the other.
I personally love grouping. I don't do it 100%, but if I could, I would... but that's just my OPINION.
Absolutely not, that's why I quit FFXI.
It's been explained by many posters, many times over, and I do get why they want to play solo in an MMO. They want to see other players wandering around, they want to chat with other players, and they might want to occaisionally trade with other players.
However, what they don't want to do is work as a team and group with other players. They just don't like that sort of gameplay. They're more interested in doing the quest, than in interacting with other people, but they enjoy the game more if other people are around while they are playing.
MMOs were made to group? AC was one of the pioneers in MMOs (and one of the first 3d ones) and it was good solo AND plenty of groups back in prime time. And I don't want to play a single player RPG, every one I've played (yes including morrowind) I've gotten bored of in a couple weeks...its too lonely and no economy or anything.
Just because I don't play YOUR way doesn't mean I need to go play a single player rpg.
So bitter and hostle.
Remember Meridian 59? Or were you even born then? Nonetheless. I'm not holding a pistol to your head and demanding you to do anything... and yes, actually MMO-RPGs were made to play along with friends. Why would a company spend so much time and money and put so much content in it, and then have someone spent $10-$15 a month and never play with anyone else?
I understand there are lone-wolves in every community.
To each their own. But haven't you noticed that usually the ones who do group, and the ones in guilds tend to have the better gear, etc? Trust me... I have played many MMORPGs alone, and it sucks. I'd rather stick nails in my eyes.
It says you're 19. Meridian 59 was out in 1996, that was the first 3D MMORPG... 13 years ago you were 6... So perhaps you really don't know much about MMORPGs. Hmm.
Yeah I would. MMO games are about playing with other players online. If someone wants to constantly solo then perhaps mmos are not for them.
DDO? RFO? CoX? You've not played many games by the sound of it. The problem you find is that forced grouping games bomb like hell. People are horrible creatures (when they want to be) so forcing people to interact with them is like throwing money out the window. WoW is successful because forced grouping is only at the very tip of end-game and offers substantial rewards for putting up with people :P
EQ & EQ2 are not forced grouping. In fact EQ2 is designed to give you talent points from doing the most unique quests.
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