Originally posted by j-monster What are you guys gonna do if EQ2 sucks. Dont give me the ''w00t EQ2 is the roxorz'' fan boy response. Im really curious what if EQ2 fails haha. what would you play?
What are you going to do if WoW sucks?
----------------------------- The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!! Down with WoW, down with all other MMORPGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WoW, it rocks (and I don't mean the game)!
----------------------------- "You sir, are a moron"
I know EQ2 will be a success, among many many reasons.
One such reason is that SoE and/or the EQ2 dev team have years of MMORPG experience. Blizzard have no experience with MMORPG, yet WoW fans are expecting Blizzards WoW to be as good as SoE's EQ2. What are those people on?
Blizzards WoW has been built from multiplayer games (not mmorpg), those games are small scale to what mmoprg's are. Lets see how WoW will do first, before their fans start slateing other more experienced mmorpg's.
Originally posted by sparkatb I know EQ2 will be a success, among many many reasons. One such reason is that SoE and/or the EQ2 dev team have years of MMORPG experience. Blizzard have no experience with MMORPG, yet WoW fans are expecting Blizzards WoW to be as good as SoE's EQ2. What are those people on? Blizzards WoW has been built from multiplayer games (not mmorpg), those games are small scale to what mmoprg's are. Lets see how WoW will do first, before their fans start slateing other more experienced mmorpg's.
Honestly, I hope you're right. As most of you know, I dont care for SOE but I am rooting for them to make EQ2 a success. However, experience doesn't matter in my opinion. From what I'm told here, each development team is separate from each other so its not like the same guys who worked on EQ1 and SWG are now working on EQ2. Also, yes Im gonna mention it again.... if experience mattered then what is SOE's excuse for SWG ?
To the other post who mentioned swg as being game of the year and 25 servers loaded... pfft. Give me a break, you obviously dont play it. First off, everyone knows those that some game mag awards are nothing but recognition for that mag's biggest advertiser. Naming a game like swg "game of the year" is a total joke. All other mags gave the game a fair to poor rating. Nobody has given swg a "kickass" or 10 score. The servers are not maxed by the way. All of them are light with the occasional medium on one server on a weekend. The servers havent had heavy loads since October 03. Also, SOE is working on allowing server migration for players. This is a classic sign that some servers will be shut down and the end is near. If JTL is anywhere near as buggy as the ground game is, I'd expect to see swg subscriber base plunge by 50% (obviously why SOE is working on server transfers). A lot of players are only hanging around to try out JTL.
As far as Blizzard goes, they do make one heck of a good game 99% of the time. Sure mmorpg is a different animal, but arent all games unique ? I see no reason to NOT expect WoW will be amazing. They sure have taken a long time to develop and test it.
I'm the type of gamer that loves good graphics first and foremost (which is why I still play SWG). EQ2 has the most amazing graphics of all present and future released mmorpg. WoW looks a bit dated to me, more like something that came out in 1999. I really am crossing my fingers and wishing good thoughts on EQ2. However, Im afraid to fall for the hype and get excited like I did for SWG and get let down.
You know what, I'm gonna swing on by and basically just blow all of your oppinions on MMORPGs being good or bad right out of the water! Fun fact- 95% of all the current MMORPGs are the same cliche, repetitive, pointless advancement for your own enjoyment, or zombification, your pick. Theres nothing new.. each game has their one little gimmic, but its all the same! Think outside of that box people, pretty much all the MMORPGs today are a time sink, they suck, and the enjoyment level really starts to die off after you auto-attack that monster for the 2,000th time! And dont bother with "communities", if I wanted a game based around community I could charge $15 a month for a massive chatroom, thats basically what most of these games have become now anyways . So refuse to buy that worthless clone over clone of endless MMORPGs that throw the stale content and over-done ideas and make the devs actually use more effort than what they're getting paid by the hour to do, its an artform, an artform like the early days of Ultima Online, bless its soul (until EA blew the crap out of it ).
I am sorry but some of you seem to be implying that SWG's problems are not SOE's fault and that it is a different developer for EQ2.
You are wrong if you believe so. SOE is the developer, their employees created SWG, their employees handle customer service for SWG and in both cases SOE (and their employees) made serious mistakes. SOE is responsible for everything bad involved with SWG, from the bugs to the FOTM's created by their total lack of ability to balance the game even remotely in an intelligent fashion. That would be like saying Exxon is not responsible for the Valdez disaster. SOE had the final say on the project, even pushed for its early release and why Raph, Kevin or Haden Blackman still had jobs 6 months after release is still beyond me. In the end SOE is totally responsible for SWG and quite frankly has showed they are totally capable of screwing up a wet dream. The fact that people are still playing shows you how much of a sure thing SWG was, and they totally missed the mark. The reason there are so many Jedi in the game now, is that they had to throw a bone to the fanboys to at least keep them around.
Now, this doesn't mean that SOE will screw the pooch with EQ2 at all. To shift away from the bad related to SOE, lets go to the good. SOE track record, although tainted recently, is steady. They produce the most successful MMORPG to date with EQ. EQ is the game that really set the hook for me on MMO's. And unlike SWG, where the Dev team were designing a brand new game, with skill based professions, a new type of combat system and a crafter centric world, EQ 2 will be a lot easier to transition.
EQ2 already has a backround with a proven track record, the EQ universe has a developed storyline, the class and skill system (although changed) is based off of the original success and balancing will be much easier due to the facts that 1) the game is level based, not skill based and 2) they are improving on a working premise.
I personally believe that EQ2 will be very successful (and along with WoW, they will decimate the competition) even though I am now a huge critic of SOE. Frankly after SWG, they really have no choice but to be successful. But with the failings of SWG, SOE has had a prime opportunity to learn from some serious mistakes, while not damaging their flagship franchise. Still the pressure is on and if EQ2 falls short, expect some people to lose their jobs. So when jobs are on the line, people tend to do the right thing a lot more than the easy thing.
Basically I am saying that SOE made their mistakes but they can still be trusted, they are batting .500 so they shown they can make a great game (unlike NCSoft, yes CoH sucks just as bad as L2, just trade armor for pretty tights). What you should learn from SWG is that do not trust any game made with collaborations from Raph Koster (how could he mess Star Wars up), PR from Kevin O'hara (he would sell his soul... oh wait he already did) or Haden Blackman (this guy is the biggest snake of the three, he just wants your money period). If you can avoid those three in an active role, you should be good, just as EQ2, should be good.
Originally posted by Ferett You know what, I'm gonna swing on by and basically just blow all of your oppinions on MMORPGs being good or bad right out of the water! Fun fact- 95% of all the current MMORPGs are the same cliche, repetitive, pointless advancement for your own enjoyment, or zombification, your pick. Theres nothing new.. each game has their one little gimmic, but its all the same! Think outside of that box people, pretty much all the MMORPGs today are a time sink, they suck, and the enjoyment level really starts to die off after you auto-attack that monster for the 2,000th time! And dont bother with "communities", if I wanted a game based around community I could charge $15 a month for a massive chatroom, thats basically what most of these games have become now anyways . So refuse to buy that worthless clone over clone of endless MMORPGs that throw the stale content and over-done ideas and make the devs actually use more effort than what they're getting paid by the hour to do, its an artform, an artform like the early days of Ultima Online, bless its soul (until EA blew the crap out of it ).
Well thats what an RPG is. You have to fight stuff in order to get exp and become stronger and almost all MMORPGs do it that way. But they are not all the same. Have you noticed that some games atract more people and stay popular longer than others? that has to show you they are doing somthing different, am i right? I mean my first MMORPG was everquest. Than i played Planetside... wich got old, yet some people have been playing it since it came out. Than i played SWG. It was fun but than it to got old, and my friend still playes it to this day. Than i tried COH wich in turn, GOT OLD. So here i am now, back to playing EverQuest and enjoying myself. That shows that they have somthing DIFFERENT than the other MMOs. There are many factors that make a game great, like the story and content of a game, and i know... you siad its the same game with diffeerent content but that statment isnt really true. Some games may have bleak content that doesnt really server a purpose, and other games drag players into the story. That is a big difference. There is also Genre. Different genres usually attract different people, and add a different feel to the game. A game is not fun if it doesnt feel good. A nother big difference.
I know there hasnt been any real descent games being released in a while but you still need to consider the older games like EQ and DAoC. Those games are still high on the list and they obviously have somthing DIFFERENT to keep the players attracted.
I found GMs and the EQ team techinicians etc to b e very nice, and very helpful, I myself have never played SWG The only SOE game i have played was EQ. Dont judge every team by one.
Actually when developing a mmorpg, it would be incredibly dumb to believe only 1 team is working on it. The staff that actually working on EQ2 has over a hundred. Probably the majority of them also worked on SWG. The main difference between the 2 is that there will be a different design team. So on all the things that actually matter, there will be a different team working on it.
This however won't stop SOE from actually making EQ2 less then what it can be. The most obvious mistake they will make on EQ2 is making the game too much like everquest. This means they won't try to expand too much on the combat system, and won't evolve any of the current game structures. Here is a list of possible problems that will result:
-the game will be limited to the ground. Many new mmorpgs are taking flight for a full 3d aspect, but generally your character will be stuck on the ground. -Combat will mimic everquest combat with the slight exception that your character will have 2 more links in the way they swing thier weapon. The actual combat style won't evolve. -They will clutter the user interface. The user interface should have as little windows as possible so the player can actually see a large portion of what is happening. The best way to do this is to display the hp bars floating around your character, SOE will probably station it at the edges. -They will make crafting non-interactive -The world will be divided between good and evil only. -The basis of the game will be centered around combat, you won't gain levels or powers for having and alternative life-style, like a crafter or explorer. -the world will be unmutable by the player, limiting the player experience, and making the player not seem significant in the scheme of things -leveling curve will be atrocious after you hit a small level, and will become repetative. This will lead to certain areas being camped by many players. -You must be in a guild passed level 20, you won't be able to do much if you are on your own aside from repetative killing of a monster.
There may be flight, I mean if the game goes well they WILL make expansions. Maybe some people are scared of flying.
And the combat is different, I do not remember a combat wheel in EQ.
You are a mud raker you only talk about the bad, how about talking about the GOOD? Everyone knows theres levels that just plain SUCKS in every RPG there is.Although the worlds are seperated by good and evil it does no completley abolish interactiveness throughout the race now does it? And it makes it more realistic, Some races are just plain evil some dont give a damn. As far as hit points go, I do not know anything about the bars, but unless youre a healer you should be worried about yourself mostly.And like any MMORPG there will areas were there are little or no people at all and some that is just PACKED. There is no way to stop camping. Also camping is a great way to up the communication and socialization in the game.
If you are going to put everquest 2 down atleast give it some ups.
I only respond to games that are OK by my standards and that should say alot about the game. Mainly because by my standards 90% of mmorpgs suck. I can trust SOE to put forth all its effort to making a game that is worth playing, but I highly doubt they will make it something I would consider great.
Here is what I have to judge on EQ2, the small portions of trailers they released on the game, and testomonials from QA testers and programmers at Sony. Currently out of these sources I havent seen much that sets EQ2 apart from the original besides cosmetic stuff (Graphics, Player owned houses). It has a quest system similiar to Asheron's Call in that when you start a quest you go to a different map vacant of everyone else currently trying the test. This is pretty good. There is ofcourse things that have pluses and minuses in my book, such as the cosmetics. The graphics make the game look prettier, but they require a better system which in turn limits the user base. The player owned houses are pre-existing in the world, and clan controlled. This in turn leads to people wanting to join clans, and socialize in game, which is another good aspect; mainly because from what I have seen, partying is a very important aspect to the game. The problem is the target group for this game are people who want to do things on thier own, and take full credit for thier accomplishments, this inturn would draw away that crowd because soloing wouldnt be as fun.
Before I can actually judge how good this game is, I need to know the player interactions a person can do, can a bard play music in a pub; Also I need more details on things that happen in-game aside from combat and questing. Also I need to know minor stuff like how many players are on a server, the server size, and the way monsters are spread out. To do all this I need to play the game for a little while. Which ofcourse it isnt out yet. This however won't stop me from picking out every little possibility that will make the game fail.
-the game will be limited to the ground. Many new mmorpgs are taking flight for a full 3d aspect, but generally your character will be stuck on the ground.
There is a levitate spell that lets you fly a little bit.
-Combat will mimic everquest combat with the slight exception that your character will have 2 more links in the way they swing thier weapon. The actual combat style won't evolve.
Combat wheel, the enimies using group tactics.....yeah that sounds like they didn't change anything.
-They will clutter the user interface. The user interface should have as little windows as possible so the player can actually see a large portion of what is happening. The best way to do this is to display the hp bars floating around your character, SOE will probably station it at the edges.
That is a stupid idea.
-They will make crafting non-interactive
Not true....retard.
-The world will be divided between good and evil only.
And how are games not divided like this?
-The basis of the game will be centered around combat, you won't gain levels or powers for having and alternative life-style, like a crafter or explorer.
Not true, you can gain levels through tradeskills.
-the world will be unmutable by the player, limiting the player experience, and making the player not seem significant in the scheme of things
You can channge alot in the world. The first people to an area will be known by the inhabitants and there are many other things players can do to affect the game.
-leveling curve will be atrocious after you hit a small level, and will become repetative. This will lead to certain areas being camped by many players.
This is the only thing you were "slighty" right on. Eq2 will use instanced zones reducing alot of the "cluttering"....tell me how do other games not have this problem? WoW will be the exact same way, it would be stupid if a level 100 would level up as fast as a level 1.
-You must be in a guild passed level 20, you won't be able to do much if you are on your own aside from repetative killing of a monster.
.........that is compeletly untrue. In Eq1 I know level 65 people who still aren't in a guild. Moorgard said that you could solo very very far.
----------------------------- The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!
----------------------------- "You sir, are a moron"
I don't think it was such a wise idea for me to trash talk EQ2 on the EQ2 forum, but it is fun.
Those are what I listed as possibilities that could go wrong from what SOE has done in the past.
The user interface is very pivatal to any graphical based game, and proper placement of windows can set some user interfaces apart from others.
Having an HP/Mana bar on the sides of the screen prevent you from paying full attention to combat. This is why it should be placed very close to your character. Otherwise you would be looking off your screen. There is one big problem if you can see the edges of the screen, the player isn't allowed to fully immerse themself in the world, there vision becomes impaired. This is also the problem with too many windows, the more windows you have the more the players vision becomes impaired. Add too many windows and the player can barely see 20 feet infront of them, and the sky is out of the question. You can't realyy think of looking up for inspiration if there is a chat box there with player text communication.
The ability to fly plays a very small aspect on the game, but it is still fun to be able to use the full environment. Even with levitate you are limited to a certain hieght, and limited to a class. Currently the competing mmorpg's for EQ2 have featured this, and at a far greater range then just levitation.
When I talk about combat I mean a whole new revolutionary approach. Currently combat has the limit known as the level grind. After a certain point the combat becomes repetative and limited to a small amount of specialized moves for your character, when this is linked with a high level curve, then the game becomes less enjoyable at an exponential rate. Currently they methods to combat that are more dynamic evoloving fighting forms, and I have yet to see EQ2 use this.
On leveling, the current theme is to make the lower levels easier, and the leveling increases at an exponential rate. This inturn leads to the repetative grind to level, in order to reach a very small feat. I agree that it should be more difficult to level with higher levels, but not as time consuming as it currently is. Also, can you consider crafting/trading to level an entirely seperate way to level, or is it only supplementary to combat. Would a person want to think about only crafting in order to level, and if they do will it be limited to staying afk in one spot while they do it or is it interactive?
When a game is limited to good and evil aligned races, then the game itself limits character customization. As well as seen in the real world, nothing is either good or evil, there are combinations of the 2. In most games, if there is a good and evil element, then characters are limited to one. When you allow both but limit the races to one or the other, then it instinctively places racism within the game, and prejudices. As well it wouldnt allow people to play the funner combinations like a troll that has turned to the light of good. This would then lead to worse Role-playing on the server.
On the unmutable world. Can the player actually feel apart of the world? From what I have seen of the game so far the players are just part of a crowd. Can a player decide to be just a builder and build a house in an unclaimed territory then sell it to someone? Also can there ever be a player who is the strongest, and is there an organized ranking system?
On Soloing, can you own your own house without being in a clan? What I mean by this is that is it as enjoyable to be on your own as it is to be with a group. Granted people will solo to high levels, but is it as effecient? Also can they eventually take down extremely difficult enemies on thier own?
I don't think it was such a wise idea for me to trash talk EQ2 on the EQ2 forum, but it is fun. Those are what I listed as possibilities that could go wrong from what SOE has done in the past. .....good and evil bad?....yeah thats a no no The user interface is very pivatal to any graphical based game, and proper placement of windows can set some user interfaces apart from others. have you seen some videos and stuff? The windows are very well placed. Your idea of bars over the head is really stupid, what happens if your not close enough to see that person? Having an HP/Mana bar on the sides of the screen prevent you from paying full attention to combat. This is why it should be placed very close to your character. Otherwise you would be looking off your screen. There is one big problem if you can see the edges of the screen, the player isn't allowed to fully immerse themself in the world, there vision becomes impaired. This is also the problem with too many windows, the more windows you have the more the players vision becomes impaired. Add too many windows and the player can barely see 20 feet infront of them, and the sky is out of the question. You can't realyy think of looking up for inspiration if there is a chat box there with player text communication. How do windows affect how far you can see, or that you can't look up? From what i've read on your posts you've never played an mmorpg before. The ability to fly plays a very small aspect on the game, but it is still fun to be able to use the full environment. Even with levitate you are limited to a certain hieght, and limited to a class. Currently the competing mmorpg's for EQ2 have featured this, and at a far greater range then just levitation. Flight in a medival/renisance age is realistic and imersive?! Woooo, now i have to rethink my entire perception on things. When I talk about combat I mean a whole new revolutionary approach. Currently combat has the limit known as the level grind. After a certain point the combat becomes repetative and limited to a small amount of specialized moves for your character, when this is linked with a high level curve, then the game becomes less enjoyable at an exponential rate. Currently they methods to combat that are more dynamic evoloving fighting forms, and I have yet to see EQ2 use this. Eq2 will have the most advanced combat system to date. OHHHH YOU GOT SERVED!!! On leveling, the current theme is to make the lower levels easier, and the leveling increases at an exponential rate. This inturn leads to the repetative grind to level, in order to reach a very small feat. I agree that it should be more difficult to level with higher levels, but not as time consuming as it currently is. Also, can you consider crafting/trading to level an entirely seperate way to level, or is it only supplementary to combat. Would a person want to think about only crafting in order to level, and if they do will it be limited to staying afk in one spot while they do it or is it interactive? You are switching your opinions here. First you say, "The only way you can level is to fight, can you craft to level, explore?" Well you can craft to level, and now you're saying that that is the same as fighting......please define both those words and then tell me that they are the same. By the way, it is the most advanced crafting system out there. You have to actually work with the metal, hit it in certain spots, mold it to the specifications you desire. It is soooo much more than you think it is. When a game is limited to good and evil aligned races, then the game itself limits character customization. As well as seen in the real world, nothing is either good or evil, there are combinations of the 2. In most games, if there is a good and evil element, then characters are limited to one. When you allow both but limit the races to one or the other, then it instinctively places racism within the game, and prejudices. As well it wouldnt allow people to play the funner combinations like a troll that has turned to the light of good. This would then lead to worse Role-playing on the server. In Eq2 dark races (such as trolls) can take on a quest that turns them light. Thus allowing for a troll paladin who is on the side of Qeynos. (the good city) Think about how stupid a game would be where there is no good, no evil, everyone is the same.....sure sounds stupid to me. On the unmutable world. Can the player actually feel apart of the world? From what I have seen of the game so far the players are just part of a crowd. Can a player decide to be just a builder and build a house in an unclaimed territory then sell it to someone? Also can there ever be a player who is the strongest, and is there an organized ranking system? Eq2 is going for the most immersive game ever. You are not just part of a crowd, because everyone is different. I have never once felt that in Eq1. Building homes in unclaimed territory is a stupid idea. It would just be stupid to walk across a desert and see someone's house in the middle of this barren wastland. Or equally as stupid, to find someone's house in a dungeon. There is a ranking system within the city itself. The more deeds you do for that city the more the city officials will like you. This will come with prestege, housing, special items, and many more features others are uncable of having. On Soloing, can you own your own house without being in a clan? What I mean by this is that is it as enjoyable to be on your own as it is to be with a group. Granted people will solo to high levels, but is it as effecient? Also can they eventually take down extremely difficult enemies on thier own? ....clan? If you knew anything about Eq2 you would know its a guild. Anyway, yes you are given a 1-2 room apartment AS SOON AS YOU START. There will be soloing at high levels, this has already been stated. But no you can't take down extremely difficult enemies on your own. That would just be stupid, 1 person goes and takes down a god, dragon, vampire lord, ect.
----------------------------- The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!
----------------------------- "You sir, are a moron"
Have you ever played another mmorpg aside from everquest? I agree I didnt know much about the game, but I read up on the portions I didn't and it still doesnt stop me from saying the game is just OK, its far from the best and its definetly not great.
The amount of the screen you can see is very important in making the game more enjoyable. Its like the difference between a bigscreen and a mini-tv; you get the same picture; only 1 is harder to see. In addition the player can actually see more of what is happening around them. This way the player has more control of thier environment.
The stat bars near your character allows you to not divert your attention away from actual combat. It is alot easier to focus on the battle if you keep your attention on your character.
Also small things such as flying don't affect the playability of an mmorpg; it does however affect the enjoyability of the game. From up high you can have a greater view of the terrain, and its an added bonus another comparable game doesnt have.
The combat system definetly isnt the best system I have seen. So far they released the way you fight is affected by your level, the skill you have with the weapon, and other factors. This has already been done on fung-wan online, using motion capture of Martial Artists. Similiar to in Everquest 2. The only difference is that was the base they used in fighting. If it was at realistics speeds, combat wouldn't be fast paced enough, they incorporated un-human speeds to make it more fast paced, and also added in chi glamour. I am pretty sure EQ2 only incorporated in the skills, but kept the fighting speeds to a humanistic level.
The Crafting system isnt the best. DnL incorporates nearly the same system except not as tedious, and slightly more complex. When you have to hammer out a piece of armor from a slab of metal, it becomes to realistic and crafting will become dry after you make several items, because it would take far too long to do something. The attention span of a player isnt 12 hours. I am sure the timing isn't that extreme, but I am pretty certain it will still be just as tedious if you mold it from an ornament. As well there is an issue with lag using this method, because it will have to show all the errors a player made increasing the amount of memory needed to play. In DnL the crafting system is similiar to combat but not so closely resembling smithing where you have to hammer out your armor. As well, depending on your circle of crafters, you can truly be sought after for a weapon from a person 2k miles away because your group is the best at it, since crafting can be done in groups. EQ2 has not released much more about thier system from what I have seen. Remember people don't want to have to do "work" when they play. As well with this crafting system there is the need for repetative leveling, meaning that you will be hammering away at armor just as if you would hack away at an enemy. This is true with most games and can actually be avoided with a more complex experience system.
On the good and evil part, it is actually the fact that a player is factioned from birth and has to work on not being of that faction. History itself can teach us that people don't enjoy being set into factions, unless they are the beneficial faction. Such backlashes can be seen in the revolutions from monarchy. This will begin to happen in EQ2, at first things will be equal but one side will gain strength. What probably will happen is that the good sides will gain more and more people outnumbering the evil aligned characters, then who controls what happens in the environment. If a player wanted to be evil aligned, they would have to automatically have to be apart of the weaker people. This tips the tables and makes being a newbie harder; and newbies ofcourse keep the game alive.
I would hardly call a game like this the most immersive game. There are games still in development, that you can literrally rule hundreds of thousands of real-live people and expand your kingdom, and the effect is, the player, not the developers can build a wall around thier kingdom, and development an actual nation they rule. As well you can also control things such as taxes, and trading within your kingdom, rather then having an NPC control these things. There are far more avenues on ways to enjoy the game aside from crafting and combat.
There is a "flying" feature in eq2, I am not sure of the limit of the height but you can use a magical carpet, Moorgard says it will be very rare or very expensive.
I will Back SOE up on this one. SOE i the past 3 months have been working very hard on the CS. There new ticketing Systems works great, they now get back to you within 24 -48hrs rather than 7 days or no response!
They also now have a dedicated payed GM's. They have a GM online 24/7 however the GM's are incharge of 2 servers. So for their CS isnt really that bad!
Comments
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The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!! Down with WoW, down with all other MMORPGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WoW, it rocks (and I don't mean the game)!
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"You sir, are a moron"
MegaWolf's EQ2 Site in the making.
http://www.lovellz.net/battlefield/phpnuke/
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
I know EQ2 will be a success, among many many reasons.
One such reason is that SoE and/or the EQ2 dev team have years of MMORPG experience. Blizzard have no experience with MMORPG, yet WoW fans are expecting Blizzards WoW to be as good as SoE's EQ2. What are those people on?
Blizzards WoW has been built from multiplayer games (not mmorpg), those games are small scale to what mmoprg's are. Lets see how WoW will do first, before their fans start slateing other more experienced mmorpg's.
J-monster I will be glad to answer that question for you.
If Everquest 2 ends up flopping, I will find another MMO to play.... most likely WoW or MEO or something....
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MegaWolf's EQ2 Site in the making.
http://www.lovellz.net/battlefield/phpnuke/
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
MMORPG's I Have Played:
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Everquest - 61 Gnome Warrior
FFXI - 56 Taru Warrior
Asheron's Call 2
Lineage 2 - 38 Orc Monk
Saga of Ryzom
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2x 2 Tb Hard Drives
MegaWolf's EQ2 Site in the making.
http://www.lovellz.net/battlefield/phpnuke/
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
You know what, I'm gonna swing on by and basically just blow all of your oppinions on MMORPGs being good or bad right out of the water! Fun fact- 95% of all the current MMORPGs are the same cliche, repetitive, pointless advancement for your own enjoyment, or zombification, your pick. Theres nothing new.. each game has their one little gimmic, but its all the same! Think outside of that box people, pretty much all the MMORPGs today are a time sink, they suck, and the enjoyment level really starts to die off after you auto-attack that monster for the 2,000th time! And dont bother with "communities", if I wanted a game based around community I could charge $15 a month for a massive chatroom, thats basically what most of these games have become now anyways
. So refuse to buy that worthless clone over clone of endless MMORPGs that throw the stale content and over-done ideas and make the devs actually use more effort than what they're getting paid by the hour to do, its an artform, an artform like the early days of Ultima Online, bless its soul (until EA blew the crap out of it 
).
MMORPGs are crap or something, yet millions of people are playing them..
I am sorry but some of you seem to be implying that SWG's problems are not SOE's fault and that it is a different developer for EQ2.
You are wrong if you believe so. SOE is the developer, their employees created SWG, their employees handle customer service for SWG and in both cases SOE (and their employees) made serious mistakes. SOE is responsible for everything bad involved with SWG, from the bugs to the FOTM's created by their total lack of ability to balance the game even remotely in an intelligent fashion. That would be like saying Exxon is not responsible for the Valdez disaster. SOE had the final say on the project, even pushed for its early release and why Raph, Kevin or Haden Blackman still had jobs 6 months after release is still beyond me. In the end SOE is totally responsible for SWG and quite frankly has showed they are totally capable of screwing up a wet dream. The fact that people are still playing shows you how much of a sure thing SWG was, and they totally missed the mark. The reason there are so many Jedi in the game now, is that they had to throw a bone to the fanboys to at least keep them around.
Now, this doesn't mean that SOE will screw the pooch with EQ2 at all. To shift away from the bad related to SOE, lets go to the good. SOE track record, although tainted recently, is steady. They produce the most successful MMORPG to date with EQ. EQ is the game that really set the hook for me on MMO's. And unlike SWG, where the Dev team were designing a brand new game, with skill based professions, a new type of combat system and a crafter centric world, EQ 2 will be a lot easier to transition.
EQ2 already has a backround with a proven track record, the EQ universe has a developed storyline, the class and skill system (although changed) is based off of the original success and balancing will be much easier due to the facts that 1) the game is level based, not skill based and 2) they are improving on a working premise.
I personally believe that EQ2 will be very successful (and along with WoW, they will decimate the competition) even though I am now a huge critic of SOE. Frankly after SWG, they really have no choice but to be successful. But with the failings of SWG, SOE has had a prime opportunity to learn from some serious mistakes, while not damaging their flagship franchise. Still the pressure is on and if EQ2 falls short, expect some people to lose their jobs. So when jobs are on the line, people tend to do the right thing a lot more than the easy thing.
Basically I am saying that SOE made their mistakes but they can still be trusted, they are batting .500 so they shown they can make a great game (unlike NCSoft, yes CoH sucks just as bad as L2, just trade armor for pretty tights). What you should learn from SWG is that do not trust any game made with collaborations from Raph Koster (how could he mess Star Wars up), PR from Kevin O'hara (he would sell his soul... oh wait he already did) or Haden Blackman (this guy is the biggest snake of the three, he just wants your money period). If you can avoid those three in an active role, you should be good, just as EQ2, should be good.
Well thats what an RPG is. You have to fight stuff in order to get exp and become stronger and almost all MMORPGs do it that way. But they are not all the same. Have you noticed that some games atract more people and stay popular longer than others? that has to show you they are doing somthing different, am i right? I mean my first MMORPG was everquest. Than i played Planetside... wich got old, yet some people have been playing it since it came out. Than i played SWG. It was fun but than it to got old, and my friend still playes it to this day. Than i tried COH wich in turn, GOT OLD. So here i am now, back to playing EverQuest and enjoying myself. That shows that they have somthing DIFFERENT than the other MMOs. There are many factors that make a game great, like the story and content of a game, and i know... you siad its the same game with diffeerent content but that statment isnt really true. Some games may have bleak content that doesnt really server a purpose, and other games drag players into the story. That is a big difference. There is also Genre. Different genres usually attract different people, and add a different feel to the game. A game is not fun if it doesnt feel good. A nother big difference.
I know there hasnt been any real descent games being released in a while but you still need to consider the older games like EQ and DAoC. Those games are still high on the list and they obviously have somthing DIFFERENT to keep the players attracted.
MegaWolf's EQ2 Site in the making.
http://www.lovellz.net/battlefield/phpnuke/
Playing: Vanguard SoH
Played: EQ, Planetside, SWG, WoW, EQ2
I found GMs and the EQ team techinicians etc to b e very nice, and very helpful, I myself have never played SWG The only SOE game i have played was EQ. Dont judge every team by one.
Post Deleted, Story of my forum career.
"Stare at the Sun Im bored"
Actually when developing a mmorpg, it would be incredibly dumb to believe only 1 team is working on it. The staff that actually working on EQ2 has over a hundred. Probably the majority of them also worked on SWG. The main difference between the 2 is that there will be a different design team. So on all the things that actually matter, there will be a different team working on it.
This however won't stop SOE from actually making EQ2 less then what it can be. The most obvious mistake they will make on EQ2 is making the game too much like everquest. This means they won't try to expand too much on the combat system, and won't evolve any of the current game structures. Here is a list of possible problems that will result:
-the game will be limited to the ground. Many new mmorpgs are taking flight for a full 3d aspect, but generally your character will be stuck on the ground.
-Combat will mimic everquest combat with the slight exception that your character will have 2 more links in the way they swing thier weapon. The actual combat style won't evolve.
-They will clutter the user interface. The user interface should have as little windows as possible so the player can actually see a large portion of what is happening. The best way to do this is to display the hp bars floating around your character, SOE will probably station it at the edges.
-They will make crafting non-interactive
-The world will be divided between good and evil only.
-The basis of the game will be centered around combat, you won't gain levels or powers for having and alternative life-style, like a crafter or explorer.
-the world will be unmutable by the player, limiting the player experience, and making the player not seem significant in the scheme of things
-leveling curve will be atrocious after you hit a small level, and will become repetative. This will lead to certain areas being camped by many players.
-You must be in a guild passed level 20, you won't be able to do much if you are on your own aside from repetative killing of a monster.
Do you live to trash this game?
There may be flight, I mean if the game goes well they WILL make expansions. Maybe some people are scared of flying.
And the combat is different, I do not remember a combat wheel in EQ.
You are a mud raker you only talk about the bad, how about talking about the GOOD?
Everyone knows theres levels that just plain SUCKS in every RPG there is.Although the worlds are seperated by good and evil it does no completley abolish interactiveness throughout the race now does it? And it makes it more realistic, Some races are just plain evil some dont give a damn. As far as hit points go, I do not know anything about the bars, but unless youre a healer you should be worried about yourself mostly.And like any MMORPG there will areas were there are little or no people at all and some that is just PACKED. There is no way to stop camping. Also camping is a great way to up the communication and socialization in the game.
If you are going to put everquest 2 down atleast give it some ups.
Post Deleted, Story of my forum career.
"Stare at the Sun Im bored"
edit: post deleted by self.
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"You sir, are a moron"
I only respond to games that are OK by my standards and that should say alot about the game. Mainly because by my standards 90% of mmorpgs suck. I can trust SOE to put forth all its effort to making a game that is worth playing, but I highly doubt they will make it something I would consider great.
Here is what I have to judge on EQ2, the small portions of trailers they released on the game, and testomonials from QA testers and programmers at Sony. Currently out of these sources I havent seen much that sets EQ2 apart from the original besides cosmetic stuff (Graphics, Player owned houses). It has a quest system similiar to Asheron's Call in that when you start a quest you go to a different map vacant of everyone else currently trying the test. This is pretty good. There is ofcourse things that have pluses and minuses in my book, such as the cosmetics. The graphics make the game look prettier, but they require a better system which in turn limits the user base. The player owned houses are pre-existing in the world, and clan controlled. This in turn leads to people wanting to join clans, and socialize in game, which is another good aspect; mainly because from what I have seen, partying is a very important aspect to the game. The problem is the target group for this game are people who want to do things on thier own, and take full credit for thier accomplishments, this inturn would draw away that crowd because soloing wouldnt be as fun.
Before I can actually judge how good this game is, I need to know the player interactions a person can do, can a bard play music in a pub; Also I need more details on things that happen in-game aside from combat and questing. Also I need to know minor stuff like how many players are on a server, the server size, and the way monsters are spread out. To do all this I need to play the game for a little while. Which ofcourse it isnt out yet. This however won't stop me from picking out every little possibility that will make the game fail.
You don't know much do you?
-the game will be limited to the ground. Many new mmorpgs are taking flight for a full 3d aspect, but generally your character will be stuck on the ground.
There is a levitate spell that lets you fly a little bit.
-Combat will mimic everquest combat with the slight exception that your character will have 2 more links in the way they swing thier weapon. The actual combat style won't evolve.
Combat wheel, the enimies using group tactics.....yeah that sounds like they didn't change anything.
-They will clutter the user interface. The user interface should have as little windows as possible so the player can actually see a large portion of what is happening. The best way to do this is to display the hp bars floating around your character, SOE will probably station it at the edges.
That is a stupid idea.
-They will make crafting non-interactive
Not true....retard.
-The world will be divided between good and evil only.
And how are games not divided like this?
-The basis of the game will be centered around combat, you won't gain levels or powers for having and alternative life-style, like a crafter or explorer.
Not true, you can gain levels through tradeskills.
-the world will be unmutable by the player, limiting the player experience, and making the player not seem significant in the scheme of things
You can channge alot in the world. The first people to an area will be known by the inhabitants and there are many other things players can do to affect the game.
-leveling curve will be atrocious after you hit a small level, and will become repetative. This will lead to certain areas being camped by many players.
This is the only thing you were "slighty" right on. Eq2 will use instanced zones reducing alot of the "cluttering"....tell me how do other games not have this problem? WoW will be the exact same way, it would be stupid if a level 100 would level up as fast as a level 1.
-You must be in a guild passed level 20, you won't be able to do much if you are on your own aside from repetative killing of a monster.
.........that is compeletly untrue. In Eq1 I know level 65 people who still aren't in a guild. Moorgard said that you could solo very very far.
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The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!
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"You sir, are a moron"
I don't think it was such a wise idea for me to trash talk EQ2 on the EQ2 forum, but it is fun.
Those are what I listed as possibilities that could go wrong from what SOE has done in the past.
The user interface is very pivatal to any graphical based game, and proper placement of windows can set some user interfaces apart from others.
Having an HP/Mana bar on the sides of the screen prevent you from paying full attention to combat. This is why it should be placed very close to your character. Otherwise you would be looking off your screen. There is one big problem if you can see the edges of the screen, the player isn't allowed to fully immerse themself in the world, there vision becomes impaired. This is also the problem with too many windows, the more windows you have the more the players vision becomes impaired. Add too many windows and the player can barely see 20 feet infront of them, and the sky is out of the question. You can't realyy think of looking up for inspiration if there is a chat box there with player text communication.
The ability to fly plays a very small aspect on the game, but it is still fun to be able to use the full environment. Even with levitate you are limited to a certain hieght, and limited to a class. Currently the competing mmorpg's for EQ2 have featured this, and at a far greater range then just levitation.
When I talk about combat I mean a whole new revolutionary approach. Currently combat has the limit known as the level grind. After a certain point the combat becomes repetative and limited to a small amount of specialized moves for your character, when this is linked with a high level curve, then the game becomes less enjoyable at an exponential rate. Currently they methods to combat that are more dynamic evoloving fighting forms, and I have yet to see EQ2 use this.
On leveling, the current theme is to make the lower levels easier, and the leveling increases at an exponential rate. This inturn leads to the repetative grind to level, in order to reach a very small feat. I agree that it should be more difficult to level with higher levels, but not as time consuming as it currently is. Also, can you consider crafting/trading to level an entirely seperate way to level, or is it only supplementary to combat. Would a person want to think about only crafting in order to level, and if they do will it be limited to staying afk in one spot while they do it or is it interactive?
When a game is limited to good and evil aligned races, then the game itself limits character customization. As well as seen in the real world, nothing is either good or evil, there are combinations of the 2. In most games, if there is a good and evil element, then characters are limited to one. When you allow both but limit the races to one or the other, then it instinctively places racism within the game, and prejudices. As well it wouldnt allow people to play the funner combinations like a troll that has turned to the light of good. This would then lead to worse Role-playing on the server.
On the unmutable world. Can the player actually feel apart of the world? From what I have seen of the game so far the players are just part of a crowd. Can a player decide to be just a builder and build a house in an unclaimed territory then sell it to someone? Also can there ever be a player who is the strongest, and is there an organized ranking system?
On Soloing, can you own your own house without being in a clan? What I mean by this is that is it as enjoyable to be on your own as it is to be with a group. Granted people will solo to high levels, but is it as effecient? Also can they eventually take down extremely difficult enemies on thier own?
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The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!
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"You sir, are a moron"
-----------------------------
The True Oracle of all that is EverQuest!!
-----------------------------
"You sir, are a moron"
Have you ever played another mmorpg aside from everquest? I agree I didnt know much about the game, but I read up on the portions I didn't and it still doesnt stop me from saying the game is just OK, its far from the best and its definetly not great.
The amount of the screen you can see is very important in making the game more enjoyable. Its like the difference between a bigscreen and a mini-tv; you get the same picture; only 1 is harder to see. In addition the player can actually see more of what is happening around them. This way the player has more control of thier environment.
The stat bars near your character allows you to not divert your attention away from actual combat. It is alot easier to focus on the battle if you keep your attention on your character.
Also small things such as flying don't affect the playability of an mmorpg; it does however affect the enjoyability of the game. From up high you can have a greater view of the terrain, and its an added bonus another comparable game doesnt have.
The combat system definetly isnt the best system I have seen. So far they released the way you fight is affected by your level, the skill you have with the weapon, and other factors. This has already been done on fung-wan online, using motion capture of Martial Artists. Similiar to in Everquest 2. The only difference is that was the base they used in fighting. If it was at realistics speeds, combat wouldn't be fast paced enough, they incorporated un-human speeds to make it more fast paced, and also added in chi glamour. I am pretty sure EQ2 only incorporated in the skills, but kept the fighting speeds to a humanistic level.
The Crafting system isnt the best. DnL incorporates nearly the same system except not as tedious, and slightly more complex. When you have to hammer out a piece of armor from a slab of metal, it becomes to realistic and crafting will become dry after you make several items, because it would take far too long to do something. The attention span of a player isnt 12 hours. I am sure the timing isn't that extreme, but I am pretty certain it will still be just as tedious if you mold it from an ornament. As well there is an issue with lag using this method, because it will have to show all the errors a player made increasing the amount of memory needed to play. In DnL the crafting system is similiar to combat but not so closely resembling smithing where you have to hammer out your armor. As well, depending on your circle of crafters, you can truly be sought after for a weapon from a person 2k miles away because your group is the best at it, since crafting can be done in groups. EQ2 has not released much more about thier system from what I have seen. Remember people don't want to have to do "work" when they play. As well with this crafting system there is the need for repetative leveling, meaning that you will be hammering away at armor just as if you would hack away at an enemy. This is true with most games and can actually be avoided with a more complex experience system.
On the good and evil part, it is actually the fact that a player is factioned from birth and has to work on not being of that faction. History itself can teach us that people don't enjoy being set into factions, unless they are the beneficial faction. Such backlashes can be seen in the revolutions from monarchy. This will begin to happen in EQ2, at first things will be equal but one side will gain strength. What probably will happen is that the good sides will gain more and more people outnumbering the evil aligned characters, then who controls what happens in the environment. If a player wanted to be evil aligned, they would have to automatically have to be apart of the weaker people. This tips the tables and makes being a newbie harder; and newbies ofcourse keep the game alive.
I would hardly call a game like this the most immersive game. There are games still in development, that you can literrally rule hundreds of thousands of real-live people and expand your kingdom, and the effect is, the player, not the developers can build a wall around thier kingdom, and development an actual nation they rule. As well you can also control things such as taxes, and trading within your kingdom, rather then having an NPC control these things. There are far more avenues on ways to enjoy the game aside from crafting and combat.
There is a "flying" feature in eq2, I am not sure of the limit of the height but you can use a magical carpet, Moorgard says it will be very rare or very expensive.
Post Deleted, Story of my forum career.
"Stare at the Sun Im bored"
I will Back SOE up on this one. SOE i the past 3 months have been working very hard on the CS. There new ticketing Systems works great, they now get back to you within 24 -48hrs rather than 7 days or no response!
They also now have a dedicated payed GM's. They have a GM online 24/7 however the GM's are incharge of 2 servers. So for their CS isnt really that bad!
<img src="http://stats.planetsidegaming.com/15/351469/stats.png"; border="0" />
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FIRST WILL BE LAST AND BECOME ONE
<img src="http://stats.planetsidegaming.com/15/351469/stats.png"; border="0" />
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FIRST WILL BE LAST AND BECOME ONE