There are 4 tiers to the map (ie capture T1 before you can move onto T2).
Lol, they are soooo copied WAR...
laughable~ this type of game was introduced as early as Half-Life (Team Fortress Classic) map where the teams had to move up tiers of areas to win. It probably was somewhere else before that too~ The "copied" line is "soooooo" ignorant.
I'm tired of reading this debate. I'm gonna shoot you guys the bottom line, and I'll keep it simple. I assume you are all both old enough, and smart enough, to follow me on this without needing much detail.
Blizzard is a business. Mythic is a business. Blizzard had a service which was fairly flawless, but had some gaps in what the consumer wants. Mythic is planning to offer a service which caters to those gaps. There is no question here, NO QUESTION, that Blizzard is trying to fill those gaps in response. Especially when doing so fits with their own game direction perfectly.
Its not like trying to add tons of sandbox elements, they won't be trying that anytime soon. Its beyond obvious that Blizzard realizes the chance WAR stands at removing even a slight number of their players. Blizzard, as a very successful company, did not reach its heights by disregarding even such a small loss. Best thing is, it requires far less work for THEM to add content which would appeal to that crowd...all the while maintaining the advantage of these players already having settled in to their game.
This stuff IS ripped from WAR. Many of the core ideals were long since envisioned, but the actual product has been added to in an effort to compensate for their content gaps. There is nothing wrong with this...its the equivalent of Wal-mart adding a music department to their stores in areas that have a lot of interest in that area. Sure, Wal-Mart has always SOLD some kind of instrument...but adding a whole department would be an alteration to compensate for even a small loss in business, a choice which is always indicative of a good company trying to do its best for its consumers.
Let's not argue that much. WoW is a great game. However, as it looks right now WAR will be a better option for fantasy MMO PvPers while WoW will continue to be the king when it comes to PvE.
Here's the thing though. Most people aren't looking for a game that does 1 thing better than everyone else. Most people are looking for a game that does the majority of things better than anyone else. Sure, WoW will lose some folks to War, just like it lost some folks to Conan. But unless War can come close to matching WoW from the PvE side, the PvP side alone won't be enough to sway most people away from WoW. As long as WoW is still tops in PvE and close to War on the PvP front, they'll still maintain their lead in the MMO genre and they'll even get a few of those folks who switched to War back, just like they did with Conan.
Originally posted by Pappy13 Here's the thing though. Most people aren't looking for a game that does 1 thing better than everyone else. Most people are looking for a game that does the majority of things better than anyone else. Sure, WoW will lose some folks to War, just like it lost some folks to Conan. But unless War can come close to matching WoW from the PvE side, the PvP side alone won't be enough to sway most people away from WoW. As long as WoW is still tops in PvE and close to War on the PvP front, they'll still maintain their lead in the MMO genre and they'll even get a few of those folks who switched to War back, just like they did with Conan. Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I think this is very hard to predict. 2 years ago I would have assumed what you write above since I was mostly a PvEer (raided in WoW 4 nights a week). When I looked around on my server though the PvE people (as in - people who are really there for the PvE) was a pretty small crowd. Most people were there because the game was fun, to socialize with friends and they were doing casual stuff (a 5-man here and there and some BGs)
Now - WAR will clearly have against itself that most people are playing WoW so the 'socialize' part in the beginning will be weak unless your friends move as well. What speaks against WoW is that it is casual friendly but as a casual you are not getting the new juice content. This is where WAR shines in its design (you can just log in and participate in the same PvP that the hard-core guys are doing).
How will this play out? No clue I am pretty certain that WAR will do just fine though regardless how WoW is effected (if at all).
Edit: And in addition I do believe that there is a reason behind all the WoW adds, 'recruit a friend' drives, beta invitations to ex-WoWers etc - WoW has just started to feel coming to age. That does not mean death and destruction - just coming to age, a slight decline in the NA and the EU.
Originally posted by Pappy13 Here's the thing though. Most people aren't looking for a game that does 1 thing better than everyone else. Most people are looking for a game that does the majority of things better than anyone else. Sure, WoW will lose some folks to War, just like it lost some folks to Conan. But unless War can come close to matching WoW from the PvE side, the PvP side alone won't be enough to sway most people away from WoW. As long as WoW is still tops in PvE and close to War on the PvP front, they'll still maintain their lead in the MMO genre and they'll even get a few of those folks who switched to War back, just like they did with Conan. Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I think this is very hard to predict. 2 years ago I would have assumed what you write above since I was mostly a PvEer (raided in WoW 4 nights a week). When I looked around on my server though the PvE people (as in - people who are really there for the PvE) was a pretty small crowd. Most people were there because the game was fun, to socialize with friends and they were doing casual stuff (a 5-man here and there and some BGs)
Now - WAR will clearly have against itself that most people are playing WoW so the 'socialize' part in the beginning will be weak unless your friends move as well. What speaks against WoW is that it is casual friendly but as a casual you are not getting the new juice content. This is where WAR shines in its design (you can just log in and participate in the same PvP that the hard-core guys are doing).
How will this play out? No clue I am pretty certain that WAR will do just fine though regardless how WoW is effected (if at all).
I think it's closer to a 1/3 1/3 1/3 split. About 1/3 are hard core PvE raider types, they grind thru the PvE content. About 1/3 are hard core PvP types grinding away to get the next tier gear so they can pwn even more in BG's or arenas and about another 1/3 are not hard core anything, they are more all around types (some call them casual, but I think that's a bit of bad term because some of these people play just as much as the hard core players, they just have a different view of the game, but that's an issue for another thread). They go where their fancy strikes on any particular day. They may raid once or twice a week, but they also find time to do some BG's and they also spend a little time leveling up an alt or working on a profession or doing dailies to acquire enough gold to buy an epic flying mount or any one of a billion other things you can do in the game.
War may corner the market on the 1/3 hard core PvP types, but I kinda doubt they are going to do the same with the other 2/3. And even the 1/3 hard core PvP types may not necessarily be an easy thing to accomplish given what WoW has planned in the expansion. I'm interested to see how it all works out.
A lot of Warhammer fans following World of Warcraft topics for people who aren't going to play Warcraft.
Also, the Non-Disclosure Agreement shield is still up. Why must a company hide behind an NDA? Lich King doesn't...
But that aside, Warhammer has adopted much of the game play feel that Blizzard developed. There is a reason you hear beta testers calling Warhammer a WoW clone, and its not because Blizzard made their dwarves look like the ones in the Warhammer universe.
The thing is, if your going to compete with a company at its own game, you have to do it better then them.
Blizzard could make a Warhammer a thousand times better then Mythic. And they will make a better PvP game despite what fans believe.
But WoW is getting old, people are getting bored, and many will flock to warhammer like many flocked to AoC. Not because Age of Conan is better (see any age of conan forums), but because it was new and fresh.
I am a fan of WoW, and i do play it. But i've also been playing Mythic games since DFC. I was there for the release of Spellbinder: The Nexus Conflict. I know what Mythic is capable of. I have paid them a monthly subscription longer then DAoC has been on the market, and that was before DAoC was released.
The facts are there. I believe Mythic side stepped what made their RPGs so great, and that was a Third Realm. Its the only reason i'm not a Warhammer fanboi tearing up the WoW forums.
Darkness Falls: The Crusade had three realms. Spellbinder had three sides. Dark Age of Camelot has three realms. Warhammer has two sides.
All the other Mythic RvR titles had open, world combat as there only option. Until the invent of the Battlegrounds for DAoC which then became the more popular option for casuals and people playing in the battlegrounds exclusively became the majority.
Anyone in beta will tell you Warhammers main focus during development was and IS the Battlegrounds. They have learned that people like this quicker, fairer form of pvp. Open world keep combat was an after thought in Warhammer. The Beta forums were explosive when it was rumored that there would be no keep type open world warfare in Warhammer.
The way i see it, Mythic learned a lot of what people like in DAoC. They learned the Battlegrounds were where it was at. And they focused on making Warhammer excel in this respect.
Just wait till the NDA drops. Then we'll all be able to talk openly about the game play differences of World of Warcraft and Warhammer.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
For the record: I am baffled by all the WAR is a WoW clone talk. It reminds me of all the WoW is an EQ clone at WoW release...and who even thinks that today? These games are clones of each other to the same extent that Mercedes, Porsche and Ferrari are clones of each other. They are cars but there are differences that are major enough for people to love one and hate the other.
All this clone talk is intellectually degrading. Be more specific instead of saying that the earth is a clone to the moon since they are two round balls floating in space. It is the specifics that will make people love and hate.
The remarkable thing about WoW is, what i think, the cartoonish graphics.. But if you look at the screenshots. its getting abit more realistic to me. which i find sad.
Comments
Lol, they are soooo copied WAR...
laughable~ this type of game was introduced as early as Half-Life (Team Fortress Classic) map where the teams had to move up tiers of areas to win. It probably was somewhere else before that too~ The "copied" line is "soooooo" ignorant.
I'm tired of reading this debate. I'm gonna shoot you guys the bottom line, and I'll keep it simple. I assume you are all both old enough, and smart enough, to follow me on this without needing much detail.
Blizzard is a business. Mythic is a business. Blizzard had a service which was fairly flawless, but had some gaps in what the consumer wants. Mythic is planning to offer a service which caters to those gaps. There is no question here, NO QUESTION, that Blizzard is trying to fill those gaps in response. Especially when doing so fits with their own game direction perfectly.
Its not like trying to add tons of sandbox elements, they won't be trying that anytime soon. Its beyond obvious that Blizzard realizes the chance WAR stands at removing even a slight number of their players. Blizzard, as a very successful company, did not reach its heights by disregarding even such a small loss. Best thing is, it requires far less work for THEM to add content which would appeal to that crowd...all the while maintaining the advantage of these players already having settled in to their game.
This stuff IS ripped from WAR. Many of the core ideals were long since envisioned, but the actual product has been added to in an effort to compensate for their content gaps. There is nothing wrong with this...its the equivalent of Wal-mart adding a music department to their stores in areas that have a lot of interest in that area. Sure, Wal-Mart has always SOLD some kind of instrument...but adding a whole department would be an alteration to compensate for even a small loss in business, a choice which is always indicative of a good company trying to do its best for its consumers.
Here's the thing though. Most people aren't looking for a game that does 1 thing better than everyone else. Most people are looking for a game that does the majority of things better than anyone else. Sure, WoW will lose some folks to War, just like it lost some folks to Conan. But unless War can come close to matching WoW from the PvE side, the PvP side alone won't be enough to sway most people away from WoW. As long as WoW is still tops in PvE and close to War on the PvP front, they'll still maintain their lead in the MMO genre and they'll even get a few of those folks who switched to War back, just like they did with Conan.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I think this is very hard to predict. 2 years ago I would have assumed what you write above since I was mostly a PvEer (raided in WoW 4 nights a week). When I looked around on my server though the PvE people (as in - people who are really there for the PvE) was a pretty small crowd. Most people were there because the game was fun, to socialize with friends and they were doing casual stuff (a 5-man here and there and some BGs)
Now - WAR will clearly have against itself that most people are playing WoW so the 'socialize' part in the beginning will be weak unless your friends move as well. What speaks against WoW is that it is casual friendly but as a casual you are not getting the new juice content. This is where WAR shines in its design (you can just log in and participate in the same PvP that the hard-core guys are doing).
How will this play out? No clue
I am pretty certain that WAR will do just fine though regardless how WoW is effected (if at all).
Edit: And in addition I do believe that there is a reason behind all the WoW adds, 'recruit a friend' drives, beta invitations to ex-WoWers etc - WoW has just started to feel coming to age. That does not mean death and destruction - just coming to age, a slight decline in the NA and the EU.
I think this is very hard to predict. 2 years ago I would have assumed what you write above since I was mostly a PvEer (raided in WoW 4 nights a week). When I looked around on my server though the PvE people (as in - people who are really there for the PvE) was a pretty small crowd. Most people were there because the game was fun, to socialize with friends and they were doing casual stuff (a 5-man here and there and some BGs)
Now - WAR will clearly have against itself that most people are playing WoW so the 'socialize' part in the beginning will be weak unless your friends move as well. What speaks against WoW is that it is casual friendly but as a casual you are not getting the new juice content. This is where WAR shines in its design (you can just log in and participate in the same PvP that the hard-core guys are doing).
How will this play out? No clue
I am pretty certain that WAR will do just fine though regardless how WoW is effected (if at all).
I think it's closer to a 1/3 1/3 1/3 split. About 1/3 are hard core PvE raider types, they grind thru the PvE content. About 1/3 are hard core PvP types grinding away to get the next tier gear so they can pwn even more in BG's or arenas and about another 1/3 are not hard core anything, they are more all around types (some call them casual, but I think that's a bit of bad term because some of these people play just as much as the hard core players, they just have a different view of the game, but that's an issue for another thread). They go where their fancy strikes on any particular day. They may raid once or twice a week, but they also find time to do some BG's and they also spend a little time leveling up an alt or working on a profession or doing dailies to acquire enough gold to buy an epic flying mount or any one of a billion other things you can do in the game.
War may corner the market on the 1/3 hard core PvP types, but I kinda doubt they are going to do the same with the other 2/3. And even the 1/3 hard core PvP types may not necessarily be an easy thing to accomplish given what WoW has planned in the expansion. I'm interested to see how it all works out.
A lot of Warhammer fans following World of Warcraft topics for people who aren't going to play Warcraft.
Also, the Non-Disclosure Agreement shield is still up. Why must a company hide behind an NDA? Lich King doesn't...
But that aside, Warhammer has adopted much of the game play feel that Blizzard developed. There is a reason you hear beta testers calling Warhammer a WoW clone, and its not because Blizzard made their dwarves look like the ones in the Warhammer universe.
The thing is, if your going to compete with a company at its own game, you have to do it better then them.
Blizzard could make a Warhammer a thousand times better then Mythic. And they will make a better PvP game despite what fans believe.
But WoW is getting old, people are getting bored, and many will flock to warhammer like many flocked to AoC. Not because Age of Conan is better (see any age of conan forums), but because it was new and fresh.
I am a fan of WoW, and i do play it. But i've also been playing Mythic games since DFC. I was there for the release of Spellbinder: The Nexus Conflict. I know what Mythic is capable of. I have paid them a monthly subscription longer then DAoC has been on the market, and that was before DAoC was released.
The facts are there. I believe Mythic side stepped what made their RPGs so great, and that was a Third Realm. Its the only reason i'm not a Warhammer fanboi tearing up the WoW forums.
Darkness Falls: The Crusade had three realms. Spellbinder had three sides. Dark Age of Camelot has three realms. Warhammer has two sides.
All the other Mythic RvR titles had open, world combat as there only option. Until the invent of the Battlegrounds for DAoC which then became the more popular option for casuals and people playing in the battlegrounds exclusively became the majority.
Anyone in beta will tell you Warhammers main focus during development was and IS the Battlegrounds. They have learned that people like this quicker, fairer form of pvp. Open world keep combat was an after thought in Warhammer. The Beta forums were explosive when it was rumored that there would be no keep type open world warfare in Warhammer.
The way i see it, Mythic learned a lot of what people like in DAoC. They learned the Battlegrounds were where it was at. And they focused on making Warhammer excel in this respect.
Just wait till the NDA drops. Then we'll all be able to talk openly about the game play differences of World of Warcraft and Warhammer.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
For the record: I am baffled by all the WAR is a WoW clone talk. It reminds me of all the WoW is an EQ clone at WoW release...and who even thinks that today? These games are clones of each other to the same extent that Mercedes, Porsche and Ferrari are clones of each other. They are cars but there are differences that are major enough for people to love one and hate the other.
All this clone talk is intellectually degrading. Be more specific instead of saying that the earth is a clone to the moon since they are two round balls floating in space. It is the specifics that will make people love and hate.
The remarkable thing about WoW is, what i think, the cartoonish graphics.. But if you look at the screenshots. its getting abit more realistic to me. which i find sad.