I don't think it's a matter of censorship at all, but I do agree with the pr thing. I remember when this site took Dark and Light off the list for Farlan being shady and not telling the truth to their customers. Now AoC and Funcom are getting the same rap, but continue to engage in this behavior. To me, the two games are really simular and so is the attitude of the disgruntled customers.
I don't think it's a matter of censorship at all, but I do agree with the pr thing. I remember when this site took Dark and Light off the list for Farlan being shady and not telling the truth to their customers. Now AoC and Funcom are getting the same rap, but continue to engage in this behavior. To me, the two games are really simular and so is the attitude of the disgruntled customers.
This occured to me not too long ago as well. I just assumed it was because Funcom paid better money for advertising spots.
I respect your stance on it, and I see the logic in it, however that doesnt wash the bitter taste out of my mouth. And from the looks of things, Funcom needs whatever help it can get, I wouldnt put anything past them after the business practices Ive seen so far.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their side.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Just would like to thank admin for actualy coming and being straight with us.
i for one am a big fan of this site and would NOT like to see it tarnished with the same brush as funcom.
The fact funcom has sent its moderators to this foums to just copy and paste the same replys as is posted on there own site.
To a majority of the very people they have silence and banned just for questioning what is going on with a product they have paid for. is an insult in my eyes and is just like throwing napalm on a fire..
granted there are right full bannings and i would have dont the same but there is a lot of draconian bannings and silencing going on with there own forums.
I appreciate these forums and a chance for the user to expresse there views, good or bad.
last thing many want to see is a place like this being ignighted with funcoms lies and decipt and caught in the cross fire.
one last point if you look at Famins name it does say " Age of Conan, Community Coordinator " this does tend to give an impression on this site that he has been given a position on these forums.
should it not say some thing like "Age of Conan, Community representative "
I respect your stance on it, and I see the logic in it, however that doesnt wash the bitter taste out of my mouth. And from the looks of things, Funcom needs whatever help it can get, I wouldnt put anything past them after the business practices Ive seen so far.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
Personally I think MMORPG.COM should write a frank, no holds barred article on exactly whats going down with Funcom. The dirty tricks theyve pulled should make for a great read. Theres irrefutable evidence of their bad business practices, dropping stocks, shrinking playerbase, etc etc.
Admin provided the right answers in the right tone, and I feel this thread has been fully resolved.
Let's let this go to the bottom of the pile, and thanks again for showing us that this mmorpg.com forum is nothing like the censored PR machine that funcom are running
Under my ownership you will never see people unable to express their true opinions about games on this site (keep your negative opinions about people to yourself though please!).
MMORPG.com is *not* a fan site (which is why you will rarely see us listed on official sites' list of "Fan Sites"). If you want a fan site, go to one of the many cookie cutter "network" sites out there
I have actually had some heated discussions with people from game companies (again, always smaller ones) that are upset with what we allow here on the forums - but I always stand my ground on the above principle that we don't cater just to fans - we cater to players of all MMORPGs.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
We really need an independent mmorpg forum that is not paid by companies like Mythic and Funcom. Where we can discuss games with the censorship that you find here.. This forum is not independent and I think people forget that. This is all about the almighty $
Most things are motivated by money, sure. But I think you are off on where mmorpg.com's loyalties lie. The primary source of revenue for sites like this is a result of the TRAFFIC, i.e. you, me, and everyone else who comes here. If forced to choose between the customers (us) and a few advertisers (paying for an ad here and there), OF COURSE mmorpg.com is going to choose for the customer.
And like the 'Admin' correctly said a few posts up, any censorship (thread locking) that goes on here, is done with the goal of maximizing TRAFFIC, (shut down threads based on the people fighting each other... like bouncers in a bar or something). While they might make a mistake here and there, their GOAL is to side with the overall customer-base and try and create a place where they are comfortable and will keep coming to the site.... and that in effect, maximizes profit.
We players do need a place to defend ourselves from the abuses of the companies making games. Yes abuses, they are treating their costumers in a way that few other industries do.
Is mmorpg.com this place? I think it almost is, and given the pressure they are maybe having from the industry, they are doing a pretty good job. If they could be a bit more on the player's side, they'd could become a reference.
I respect your stance on it, and I see the logic in it, however that doesnt wash the bitter taste out of my mouth. And from the looks of things, Funcom needs whatever help it can get, I wouldnt put anything past them after the business practices Ive seen so far.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
He also said he went out and partied with them. Nothing against the guy, I mean hey, he has a job to do. I just think anyone with a personal investment in a company, be it business or friendship, should not be a correspondent here. He should relay information between us and FC, not push his personal agenda.
If anyone raised a redflag for being a PR guy, it would definately be him.
I respect your stance on it, and I see the logic in it, however that doesnt wash the bitter taste out of my mouth. And from the looks of things, Funcom needs whatever help it can get, I wouldnt put anything past them after the business practices Ive seen so far.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
He also said he went out and partied with them. Nothing against the guy, I mean hey, he has a job to do. I just think anyone with a personal investment in a company, be it business or friendship, should not be a correspondent here. He should relay information between us and FC, not push his personal agenda.
If anyone raised a redflag for being a PR guy, it would definately be him.
Thanks Admin for being straight up with us btw.
Id also like to add that while the NDA was in place, hardly anyone was saying anything negative about the game. The guy produced screenshots, info, videoes etc, all positive PR with no counterbalance whatsoever.
And I agree on props for the straight up answers, Funcom would learn from you.
after seeing a recent interview with the head of funcom of this site (whos name escapes me) by an mmorpg employee i would say say the site is certainly not in the pockets of funcom because he was asked some reaching questions about the problems with the game ( although in my opinion he could have gone further).
as for aoc itself i ve just returned on a buddy key and there certainly are some improvements already but not enough to make me want to return to play just yet . its still crashes a lot .when and if they sort things out i think it ll be a game worth playing in short bursts . its not completly awful its just been released far too early . as for mmorpg.com i ve only realy ever seen fair news reporting on a game .
i would say that onsite reviews tend to not be worth reading because they go far to easy on some new games . i mean they gave reasonably high scores to the likes of vanguard when the game was terrible at the time of writing . while these are personal opinions they do seam to be constantly favourable .
there is no evidence suggesting mmorpg.com is in the pockets of funcom or any other games company . although if it where my buisness i d be very weary about stepping on the feet of advertisers too much .
i d say its a tight rope walk and lets face it mmorpg keeps it balance pretty well considering.
If you look at the depressing Orwellian way that the Official AoC forums seem to be run, it's pretty obvious that forum content here is determined by the people that choose to post rather than corporate policy.
Whether you think any game is Good, Bad or Mediochre, all opinions can be represented here provided they are not too obscene or personally abusive.
Regardless of whether it is positive or negative, when people post information that is misleading they are still subject to open criticism from those who disagree, which is exactly how it should be.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
We really need an independent mmorpg forum that is not paid by companies like Mythic and Funcom. Where we can discuss games with the censorship that you find here.. This forum is not independent and I think people forget that. This is all about the almighty $
Um, what censorship? If you launch personal attacks against other posters or try to sell gold you get your post deleted. Otherwise, things seem to be pretty open. Can someone list some cases where the MMORPG staff censored something someone said about Funcom?
Well, writing a bunch of "lite" reviews that fail to criticize AoC, Id consider that a form of censorship. Ive even seen them go on the offensive saying that "Just because we get advertising revenue from Funcom doesnt mean we arent impartial." Horse hockey. Not telling the truth IS censorship.
Read through this thread then say we are censored here, If you notice one theme that seems to follow each and every post in that thread, It's respect for posters and their opinions.The second you lose that theme you lose the thread, it's quite simple.Be constructive and you will be safe from moderation,Attack others personally you get locked or deleted.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In no way has MMORPG.com ever allowed such a thing to happen on this website. Our moderators are independent and to be honest 95% of them don't know me or anything about the business end of this website. I am the only person who sells advertising for MMORPG.com and I completely isolate myself from the editorial and forum staff here, other than paying their salaries. That being said, AoC ads amounted to a very small % of revenues in recent months. We acccept advertising from almost every major MMO publisher out there (CCP, FunCom, NCsoft, Mythic, SOE, IGG, Aeria Games, and countless others) - if we took "bribe money" from these companies you wouldn't be able to say anything bad about any game on MMORPG.com - and I think anyone that knows these forums knows that is far from the case - we are pretty darn liberal around here with what we allow...as long as you a) back up your bashes about a game with a reason b) don't de-rail someone elses topic just to spout anger and hate and most importantly c) refrain from isulting others So if you say "Age of Conan is a terrible game because x, y and z" that is ok with us. However if you say "man, userBob you are an idiot and AoC sucks because x, y and z" you will get banned and your post deleted for calling userBob an idiot. Unfortunately when the later scenario happens users jump to the "you are in company xxx's pocket!" conspiracy conclusion instead of the truth, which is you broke our rules...plain and simple. The reason users brew up conspiracies like this is quite simple - because a company like FunCom or MMORPG.com or whoever we are being accused of scheming with each week is not capable of proving otherwise. How could we prove we did *not* have a secret meeting with forum mods or how could we prove we did *not* take a bribe for $10,000. Evidence does not exist for non-events...it is the backbone of conspiracy theories everywhere...not just at MMORPG.com. What I can tell you is that in order for us to scheme like this most of this team would have to be "in on it" - and many of these people come and go in weeks, months or years. In the 5+ years we have been running this website I think at least one of these dozens of helpers would have ratted out our evil ways to someone. I'm sure for the hard core tin foil hat folks this message will fall on deaf ears, but I take a lot of pride in this website and the team of great people that make it all possible, and feel compelled to state the above as I see it here all the time.
Are they so why i got banned twice here, when i was just telling some truth about AOC?
In no way has MMORPG.com ever allowed such a thing to happen on this website. Our moderators are independent and to be honest 95% of them don't know me or anything about the business end of this website. I am the only person who sells advertising for MMORPG.com and I completely isolate myself from the editorial and forum staff here, other than paying their salaries. That being said, AoC ads amounted to a very small % of revenues in recent months. We acccept advertising from almost every major MMO publisher out there (CCP, FunCom, NCsoft, Mythic, SOE, IGG, Aeria Games, and countless others) - if we took "bribe money" from these companies you wouldn't be able to say anything bad about any game on MMORPG.com - and I think anyone that knows these forums knows that is far from the case - we are pretty darn liberal around here with what we allow...as long as you a) back up your bashes about a game with a reason b) don't de-rail someone elses topic just to spout anger and hate and most importantly c) refrain from isulting others So if you say "Age of Conan is a terrible game because x, y and z" that is ok with us. However if you say "man, userBob you are an idiot and AoC sucks because x, y and z" you will get banned and your post deleted for calling userBob an idiot. Unfortunately when the later scenario happens users jump to the "you are in company xxx's pocket!" conspiracy conclusion instead of the truth, which is you broke our rules...plain and simple. The reason users brew up conspiracies like this is quite simple - because a company like FunCom or MMORPG.com or whoever we are being accused of scheming with each week is not capable of proving otherwise. How could we prove we did *not* have a secret meeting with forum mods or how could we prove we did *not* take a bribe for $10,000. Evidence does not exist for non-events...it is the backbone of conspiracy theories everywhere...not just at MMORPG.com. What I can tell you is that in order for us to scheme like this most of this team would have to be "in on it" - and many of these people come and go in weeks, months or years. In the 5+ years we have been running this website I think at least one of these dozens of helpers would have ratted out our evil ways to someone. I'm sure for the hard core tin foil hat folks this message will fall on deaf ears, but I take a lot of pride in this website and the team of great people that make it all possible, and feel compelled to state the above as I see it here all the time.
Are they so why i got banned twice here, when i was just telling some truth about AOC?
Are they so why i got banned twice here, when i was just telling some truth about AOC?
Exactly!
If you got banned I'm willing to bet your post wasn't about AOC , rather it was about someone elses opinion of AOC you didn't agree with . Rather than attack the point you probably attacked the poster , With fanboi related terms. I've not seen one person get banned without doing something like that , or have a post deleted without that sort of theme.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Seriously people take off the tinfoil hats. Yeah people like Avery have recently redoubled their efforts. But anyone with half a brain knew what they were doing over a year before AoC was released.
Beyond that the whole AoC thing has simply inflamed people and that is all you are seeing. That and some trouble makers necroing threads for no reason.
This is coming from someone who received 2 of his 3 bans from this site in the last 2 months from posts in the AoC forum. One of which was pure sarcasm and was a completely unjustiified and frankly stupid action by whatever moderator did it. And from someone who has definitely been critical of AoC even before the release.
Emotions have clearly run high and lines have been drawn in the conflict. MMORPG.com may not be completely impartial and does need to keep a relationship with the various dev and publishing houses but anyone who thinks they have been heavily or seriously quashing discontent or dissent is being flat out loony. They are simply trying not to let these forums turn into a complete cess-pit.
This board is nothing like the AoC official boards.
Also would like to make this known, which is shown on the rules page:
* For purposes of our rules, we will work under a 3 strikes policy. A first offense results in a warning. A second offence results in a 1 to 14 day ban and a third offence results in a lengthy and possibly permanent ban. Warnings and bans remain active for these purposes for 6 months. Note that severe offenses may receive stronger action, even on first or second offenses.
I wouldn't want them to censor Avery any more than I would want them to censor the 99% of players that hate AoC
I think a couple things are coming into play, and you can see this starting to happen on the official AoC boards as well... simply put.. the haters have moved on.
If you are playing AoC at this point, and you hate they way they lied at launch... um.. all I can say is it is your fault now. Most players have moved on.. either back to wow or warhammer beta. The only people left playing AoC are the diehards..who will probably be more silent as they cancel their accounts. It's not like Avery or Proteus are going to make big " I hate funcom" posts when they finally realize the game is garbage, and will continue to be garbage for a long time.
Yeah, if you quit AoC and have a bitter taste in your mouth, you might come here and post occassionally.. but as time goes on, the only people left here will be the fanbois.
I personally can see why Avery is so invested in this game. He had very early access to the game, he had personal meetings and partied with the devs and is basically an insider. Every single terrible game has people like this. They almost feel like they are betraying a friend if they say something bad about the game.
My personal mission is to make sure AoC crashes and burns.. not because of my hate for funcom,but because we all need to send a message to other MMORPG makers that people will retailate against unethical business practices (lying about your game's features). We want other companies to know that a very limited beta is not going to fly any more. It's more just a warning " see what will happen to you if you try to do what funcom did". I think maybe Warhammer got the message when they announced class/city cuts two months before launch... who knows, we might not have known about that until we tried to make those classes on a live server.
But yeah.. I don't think we should blame MMORPG.Com for people like Avery. There will always be people like that and it has nothing to do with advertising on this site.
I think this site is doing a good job. I wouldn't want them to censor Avery any more than I would want them to censor the 99% of players that hate AoC I think a couple things are coming into play, and you can see this starting to happen on the official AoC boards as well... simply put.. the haters have moved on. If you are playing AoC at this point, and you hate they way they lied at launch... um.. all I can say is it is your fault now. Most players have moved on.. either back to wow or warhammer beta. The only people left playing AoC are the diehards..who will probably be more silent as they cancel their accounts. It's not like Avery or Proteus are going to make big " I hate funcom" posts when they finally realize the game is garbage, and will continue to be garbage for a long time. Yeah, if you quit AoC and have a bitter taste in your mouth, you might come here and post occassionally.. but as time goes on, the only people left here will be the fanbois. I personally can see why Avery is so invested in this game. He had very early access to the game, he had personal meetings and partied with the devs and is basically an insider. Every single terrible game has people like this. They almost feel like they are betraying a friend if they say something bad about the game. My personal mission is to make sure AoC crashes and burns.. not because of my hate for funcom,but because we all need to send a message to other MMORPG makers that people will retailate against unethical business practices (lying about your game's features). We want other companies to know that a very limited beta is not going to fly any more. It's more just a warning " see what will happen to you if you try to do what funcom did". I think maybe Warhammer got the message when they announced class/city cuts two months before launch... who knows, we might not have known about that until we tried to make those classes on a live server. But yeah.. I don't think we should blame MMORPG.Com for people like Avery. There will always be people like that and it has nothing to do with advertising on this site.
Nice post, but I will say, the biggest fans can end up being your biggest haters. People that feel scorned will react differently, either leave quietly, or completely go on a rampage. I've seen flashes of hate from Protus lately, but he seems to be fighting it back.
I think this site is doing a good job. I wouldn't want them to censor Avery any more than I would want them to censor the 99% of players that hate AoC I think a couple things are coming into play, and you can see this starting to happen on the official AoC boards as well... simply put.. the haters have moved on. If you are playing AoC at this point, and you hate they way they lied at launch... um.. all I can say is it is your fault now. Most players have moved on.. either back to wow or warhammer beta. The only people left playing AoC are the diehards..who will probably be more silent as they cancel their accounts. It's not like Avery or Proteus are going to make big " I hate funcom" posts when they finally realize the game is garbage, and will continue to be garbage for a long time. Yeah, if you quit AoC and have a bitter taste in your mouth, you might come here and post occassionally.. but as time goes on, the only people left here will be the fanbois. I personally can see why Avery is so invested in this game. He had very early access to the game, he had personal meetings and partied with the devs and is basically an insider. Every single terrible game has people like this. They almost feel like they are betraying a friend if they say something bad about the game. My personal mission is to make sure AoC crashes and burns.. not because of my hate for funcom,but because we all need to send a message to other MMORPG makers that people will retailate against unethical business practices (lying about your game's features). We want other companies to know that a very limited beta is not going to fly any more. It's more just a warning " see what will happen to you if you try to do what funcom did". I think maybe Warhammer got the message when they announced class/city cuts two months before launch... who knows, we might not have known about that until we tried to make those classes on a live server. But yeah.. I don't think we should blame MMORPG.Com for people like Avery. There will always be people like that and it has nothing to do with advertising on this site.
Nice post, but I will say, the biggest fans can end up being your biggest haters. People that feel scorned will react differently, either leave quietly, or completely go on a rampage. I've seen flashes of hate from Protus lately, but he seems to be fighting it back.
Don't worry he will soon know the power of the dark side.
Comments
I respect your stance on it, and I see the logic in it, however that doesnt wash the bitter taste out of my mouth.
And from the looks of things, Funcom needs whatever help it can get, I wouldnt put anything past them after the business practices Ive seen so far.
I don't think it's a matter of censorship at all, but I do agree with the pr thing. I remember when this site took Dark and Light off the list for Farlan being shady and not telling the truth to their customers. Now AoC and Funcom are getting the same rap, but continue to engage in this behavior. To me, the two games are really simular and so is the attitude of the disgruntled customers.
Gamer Plus+
This occured to me not too long ago as well. I just assumed it was because Funcom paid better money for advertising spots.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their side.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Just would like to thank admin for actualy coming and being straight with us.
i for one am a big fan of this site and would NOT like to see it tarnished with the same brush as funcom.
The fact funcom has sent its moderators to this foums to just copy and paste the same replys as is posted on there own site.
To a majority of the very people they have silence and banned just for questioning what is going on with a product they have paid for. is an insult in my eyes and is just like throwing napalm on a fire..
granted there are right full bannings and i would have dont the same but there is a lot of draconian bannings and silencing going on with there own forums.
I appreciate these forums and a chance for the user to expresse there views, good or bad.
last thing many want to see is a place like this being ignighted with funcoms lies and decipt and caught in the cross fire.
one last point if you look at Famins name it does say " Age of Conan, Community Coordinator " this does tend to give an impression on this site that he has been given a position on these forums.
should it not say some thing like "Age of Conan, Community representative "
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
Personally I think MMORPG.COM should write a frank, no holds barred article on exactly whats going down with Funcom. The dirty tricks theyve pulled should make for a great read. Theres irrefutable evidence of their bad business practices, dropping stocks, shrinking playerbase, etc etc.
Admin provided the right answers in the right tone, and I feel this thread has been fully resolved.
Let's let this go to the bottom of the pile, and thanks again for showing us that this mmorpg.com forum is nothing like the censored PR machine that funcom are running
Let this thread die guys, and good show
Under my ownership you will never see people unable to express their true opinions about games on this site (keep your negative opinions about people to yourself though please!).
MMORPG.com is *not* a fan site (which is why you will rarely see us listed on official sites' list of "Fan Sites"). If you want a fan site, go to one of the many cookie cutter "network" sites out there
I have actually had some heated discussions with people from game companies (again, always smaller ones) that are upset with what we allow here on the forums - but I always stand my ground on the above principle that we don't cater just to fans - we cater to players of all MMORPGs.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Most things are motivated by money, sure. But I think you are off on where mmorpg.com's loyalties lie. The primary source of revenue for sites like this is a result of the TRAFFIC, i.e. you, me, and everyone else who comes here. If forced to choose between the customers (us) and a few advertisers (paying for an ad here and there), OF COURSE mmorpg.com is going to choose for the customer.
And like the 'Admin' correctly said a few posts up, any censorship (thread locking) that goes on here, is done with the goal of maximizing TRAFFIC, (shut down threads based on the people fighting each other... like bouncers in a bar or something). While they might make a mistake here and there, their GOAL is to side with the overall customer-base and try and create a place where they are comfortable and will keep coming to the site.... and that in effect, maximizes profit.
We players do need a place to defend ourselves from the abuses of the companies making games. Yes abuses, they are treating their costumers in a way that few other industries do.
Is mmorpg.com this place? I think it almost is, and given the pressure they are maybe having from the industry, they are doing a pretty good job. If they could be a bit more on the player's side, they'd could become a reference.
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
He also said he went out and partied with them. Nothing against the guy, I mean hey, he has a job to do. I just think anyone with a personal investment in a company, be it business or friendship, should not be a correspondent here. He should relay information between us and FC, not push his personal agenda.
If anyone raised a redflag for being a PR guy, it would definately be him.
Thanks Admin for being straight up with us btw.
Gamer Plus+
I know a lot of people over at FunCom, and I just don't see this being the case. Again, risking their entire reputation to get a handful of players from MMORPG.com would be silly when they could just drop a pile of money in advertising in a fresh new space like a non-gaming magazine or whatever.
What you probably are seeing from my experience is a die-hard fan trying very hard to drum up support for "their" game. I am not going to say this person is lying, because I don't know the case in point...but I am sure many people stretch the truth to make their case and get people on their site.
The fact of the matter is this is a public forum, you should not make buying decisions based on the views or posts of one or two users. I think this is just the nature of the Internet - you need to take all information found here that is not official with a big grain of salt (I know I do!).
Well the party in question as I recall visited the home office, played the beta, and posted more information via videos and screenshots than anyone else on these forums. Mind you it was all glowingly great reports that I wouldnt trust from a company to say, because I expect that sort of thing from them. I dont see it as making a decision based on what he said, but more or less what he said in conjuction with what Funcom said on the box itself. As far as Im concerned it was a multi pronged attack.
He also said he went out and partied with them. Nothing against the guy, I mean hey, he has a job to do. I just think anyone with a personal investment in a company, be it business or friendship, should not be a correspondent here. He should relay information between us and FC, not push his personal agenda.
If anyone raised a redflag for being a PR guy, it would definately be him.
Thanks Admin for being straight up with us btw.
Id also like to add that while the NDA was in place, hardly anyone was saying anything negative about the game. The guy produced screenshots, info, videoes etc, all positive PR with no counterbalance whatsoever.
And I agree on props for the straight up answers, Funcom would learn from you.
after seeing a recent interview with the head of funcom of this site (whos name escapes me) by an mmorpg employee i would say say the site is certainly not in the pockets of funcom because he was asked some reaching questions about the problems with the game ( although in my opinion he could have gone further).
as for aoc itself i ve just returned on a buddy key and there certainly are some improvements already but not enough to make me want to return to play just yet . its still crashes a lot .when and if they sort things out i think it ll be a game worth playing in short bursts . its not completly awful its just been released far too early . as for mmorpg.com i ve only realy ever seen fair news reporting on a game .
i would say that onsite reviews tend to not be worth reading because they go far to easy on some new games . i mean they gave reasonably high scores to the likes of vanguard when the game was terrible at the time of writing . while these are personal opinions they do seam to be constantly favourable .
there is no evidence suggesting mmorpg.com is in the pockets of funcom or any other games company . although if it where my buisness i d be very weary about stepping on the feet of advertisers too much .
i d say its a tight rope walk and lets face it mmorpg keeps it balance pretty well considering.
If you look at the depressing Orwellian way that the Official AoC forums seem to be run, it's pretty obvious that forum content here is determined by the people that choose to post rather than corporate policy.
Whether you think any game is Good, Bad or Mediochre, all opinions can be represented here provided they are not too obscene or personally abusive.
Regardless of whether it is positive or negative, when people post information that is misleading they are still subject to open criticism from those who disagree, which is exactly how it should be.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
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Read through this thread then say we are censored here, If you notice one theme that seems to follow each and every post in that thread, It's respect for posters and their opinions.The second you lose that theme you lose the thread, it's quite simple.Be constructive and you will be safe from moderation,Attack others personally you get locked or deleted.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Are they so why i got banned twice here, when i was just telling some truth about AOC?
good thread
I appreciate the feedback from the mmorpg admin
EQ2 fan sites
Are they so why i got banned twice here, when i was just telling some truth about AOC?
Exactly!
Exactly!
If you got banned I'm willing to bet your post wasn't about AOC , rather it was about someone elses opinion of AOC you didn't agree with . Rather than attack the point you probably attacked the poster , With fanboi related terms. I've not seen one person get banned without doing something like that , or have a post deleted without that sort of theme.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Seriously people take off the tinfoil hats. Yeah people like Avery have recently redoubled their efforts. But anyone with half a brain knew what they were doing over a year before AoC was released.
Beyond that the whole AoC thing has simply inflamed people and that is all you are seeing. That and some trouble makers necroing threads for no reason.
This is coming from someone who received 2 of his 3 bans from this site in the last 2 months from posts in the AoC forum. One of which was pure sarcasm and was a completely unjustiified and frankly stupid action by whatever moderator did it. And from someone who has definitely been critical of AoC even before the release.
Emotions have clearly run high and lines have been drawn in the conflict. MMORPG.com may not be completely impartial and does need to keep a relationship with the various dev and publishing houses but anyone who thinks they have been heavily or seriously quashing discontent or dissent is being flat out loony. They are simply trying not to let these forums turn into a complete cess-pit.
This board is nothing like the AoC official boards.
http://mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct
Also would like to make this known, which is shown on the rules page:
* For purposes of our rules, we will work under a 3 strikes policy. A first offense results in a warning. A second offence results in a 1 to 14 day ban and a third offence results in a lengthy and possibly permanent ban. Warnings and bans remain active for these purposes for 6 months. Note that severe offenses may receive stronger action, even on first or second offenses.
[Playing] SW:ToR
[Played] AoC, WoW, Rift, EQ 1, 2, SWG, DAoC, WAR, GW1, EVE, PotBS.
[Watching] GW2, Archage
I think this site is doing a good job.
I wouldn't want them to censor Avery any more than I would want them to censor the 99% of players that hate AoC
I think a couple things are coming into play, and you can see this starting to happen on the official AoC boards as well... simply put.. the haters have moved on.
If you are playing AoC at this point, and you hate they way they lied at launch... um.. all I can say is it is your fault now. Most players have moved on.. either back to wow or warhammer beta. The only people left playing AoC are the diehards..who will probably be more silent as they cancel their accounts. It's not like Avery or Proteus are going to make big " I hate funcom" posts when they finally realize the game is garbage, and will continue to be garbage for a long time.
Yeah, if you quit AoC and have a bitter taste in your mouth, you might come here and post occassionally.. but as time goes on, the only people left here will be the fanbois.
I personally can see why Avery is so invested in this game. He had very early access to the game, he had personal meetings and partied with the devs and is basically an insider. Every single terrible game has people like this. They almost feel like they are betraying a friend if they say something bad about the game.
My personal mission is to make sure AoC crashes and burns.. not because of my hate for funcom,but because we all need to send a message to other MMORPG makers that people will retailate against unethical business practices (lying about your game's features). We want other companies to know that a very limited beta is not going to fly any more. It's more just a warning " see what will happen to you if you try to do what funcom did". I think maybe Warhammer got the message when they announced class/city cuts two months before launch... who knows, we might not have known about that until we tried to make those classes on a live server.
But yeah.. I don't think we should blame MMORPG.Com for people like Avery. There will always be people like that and it has nothing to do with advertising on this site.
Nice post, but I will say, the biggest fans can end up being your biggest haters. People that feel scorned will react differently, either leave quietly, or completely go on a rampage. I've seen flashes of hate from Protus lately, but he seems to be fighting it back.
Gamer Plus+
Nice post, but I will say, the biggest fans can end up being your biggest haters. People that feel scorned will react differently, either leave quietly, or completely go on a rampage. I've seen flashes of hate from Protus lately, but he seems to be fighting it back.
Don't worry he will soon know the power of the dark side.
(Rubs hands together in an evil manner)
Yes, yes he will know the power of the darkside....
Gamer Plus+