In COX, there was this glitch where people could basically stick an opposing toon into these towers using a teleportation power. All kinds of people were angry they got totally stuck there until a same faction toon could get them out, and for some that took hours or days. People took it to the offical forums, their posts got locked and deleted for a bit, then POOF! A good mod walked down the hall to his boss and must have told them that this particular issue was really angering some who felt they were being perma-griefed in that zone. Few days later we got a fix.
The idea of leaving forums to a total fanboi 3rd party makes me leery, sorry. No matter how many devs post there.
I've never tried DAoC, but being told to go look at a third party fansite for 'officialish' forums makes me a bit gunshy about it. I'll go take a looksie at the daoc fansite forum things, but it seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it is a brilliant idea though, just too new for a lot of us forum types. I have heard great things about Mythic (sans EA ), and have enjoyed a few GW games in my day; I hope this works out ok but I'll have my doubts at the start.
In interviews and in official responses. The one that immediately leaps to mind is the controversial paladin interview that was before BC released.
Ah, so blizzard or funcom says they are watching the forums it must be true.
Saying?
They are.
The town NPC issue that occurred after release, the warlock life-tap debacle, and assorted other things were told to Blizzard exclusively through forums and reacted on. I mean how else do you want to explain that?
FunCom, before the censorship was heavy-handed, did respond once in a while on and even acted on (admittedly small) issues. But, haha, I guess censorship goes to show that they are watching the forums :X
Unlike Mythic who is the evil empire from hell that lies with every word it speaks. My bad....
And this is unnecessary. I never said such things, never even implied them, nor believe it.
Last I checked, we were talking about official forums and their purposes.
I have proven that official forums have been used to great and real affect by the company, and by their respective communities. That they can is enough, just how well other companies have used them is actually irrelevant. Slandering me isn't a good or civilized retort.
Originally posted by Ascension08
Which one so I can avoid it? Thanks.
It was Warhammer alliance.
So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum? Either way Mythic can hear the fans and also keep their bias moderating out of it.
Listen the "not having an offical forum" is blown waaaaaay out of proportion. Out of all the games I played Mythic was the one that kept everyone updated on what they were in the process of doing and what was coming down the pipeline. Their herald's Grab bag answered alot of my questions most of the time.
Thier site, even back in DAOC days were innovative and full of updated info.
So far people that think offical forums are needed have not proven WHY they are needed or WHY Mythic hasn't implemented it yet.
You don;t need offical forums too:
Listen to your fan base.
Update your customers with new information.
Regulate Bad Press.
Promote your Game.
MYthic never had a problem with any of these things andI don't see why they sould this time either.
There is another thing. In official forums you can control that only people that have actually bought the game can post. Will we have that in a fansite?
There is another thing. In official forums you can control that only people that have actually bought the game can post. Will we have that in a fansite?
Originally posted by jerlot65 So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum?
I addressed this with very long posts, but it was a long time ago so I'll do a cliffnotes:
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum?
I addressed this with very long posts, but it was a long time ago so I'll do a cliffnotes:
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
I've been on alot of games, I never seen a forum moderated to a "higher standard". The only extra moderating I see are when the DEV's are specifically targeted. Again, this isn't a issue.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
Again, Mythic has always kept updated info on their site. IF you needed more like class guides or quest guides, Mythic does a good job of linking you to the appropriate links. Making all info accessable in a ceentral location.
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
Again, see number two. All this stuff can still be on there. Doesn't have to be in the official forums.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
Again, your argueing about central info. No body in the history of mmo's have ever gotten their "info" through offical forums. It was by people linking them or the website having the info which again, will be conveniantly linked for you.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
There will be plenty of options to voice your opinion to Mythic through their feedback form. Thats if you think the middleman will run interference. :P
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
I don't get this one. Their will be a support questions page and surely a support FAQ. No problem here.
Finally, I never had a problem nor did I think I was peicemealing things together when trying to get info about that game. All your info gathering and forum fun is centrally located and can be accessed anytime. Add in the fact that they will have full on going RvR updates (in realtime)., a WoW Armory type page that promises to more info then any other game and you have one of the most unique incredible MMO Offical sites.
So,to the people that want to make a big deal out of this to the point that they might not even try the game? All I can say is that you spend way to much time on the Internet and not enough in game. Or maybe even too much time on both.
Here's the bottom line. Some people think Mythic doesn't care about the community, but if they didn't care then they wouldn't have everything you could find in a forum...without the forum. All of us should know that "discussion" quickly turns into "flaming whine fest." Technical support is handled by Mythic so you can get a straight answer without people flaming. Why is that worse?
Official forums. They're nice to have, but they're not necessary. And a game won't fail if it doesn't have them. Will it do better? Maybe, that's something we have to look at over time. It could do worse, but it won't fail.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
There is another thing. In official forums you can control that only people that have actually bought the game can post. Will we have that in a fansite?
I've never tried DAoC, but being told to go look at a third party fansite for 'officialish' forums makes me a bit gunshy about it. I'll go take a looksie at the daoc fansite forum things, but it seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it is a brilliant idea though, just too new for a lot of us forum types. I have heard great things about Mythic (sans EA ), and have enjoyed a few GW games in my day; I hope this works out ok but I'll have my doubts at the start.
Mythic is not, NOT forcing you to go to any fan sites! I think people just refuse to see what's in front of them.
Everything you need to know is there. Videos, Blogs from the devs, NEWS!, rankings in pvp, server status, upcoming patch notes...
When it comes to DAoC they do a weekly "grab bag" where they answer a good chunk of questions that people have sent in to them via the FEEDBACK section on their site. It allows you to send them your questions, concerns, comments, or what have you without having to listen to other people spout their disagreements with you in a most nonconstructive way.
During my time with DAoC I've seen plenty of communication on the VN boards between Mythic and the player base. If you think that because the forum has an "official" tag to it makes it just that much better of a conduit to the all mighty developers makes you diluted at best. I personally applaud them for no forums because quite frankly if they put out a solid product that is fun and engaging then I will not be spending all my time on the forums debating the fact that the shade of green an orc is should be something else.. I'm going to be playing the game, interacting with the immediate people on my server. I don't need to hear some pilloc on some server thrice removed from mine complaining how some guild on his server runs the monopoly on chain mail athletic supporters.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum?
I addressed this with very long posts, but it was a long time ago so I'll do a cliffnotes:
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard. I hardly call censoring opinions & locking threads because its not an issue they wish to discuss etc etc as a higher standard. If anything official forums are like Darth Vader...with a crushing sweep of their hand they can silence you forever.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information Not really ... the only central information you might get is status of the servers & patch notes...all of which Mythic is Providing on their Official website. You don't get to post to any of these threads in most games so there's realy no need for a forum for that. If you mean quest information etc...i'd rather go to a 3rd party site dedicated to quests class builds etc where the information is centralized instead of spread out over 10x billion posts.
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers. Compare & contrast what data? What numbers? Sub numbers? You can't tell sub numbers by forum posters lots of us dont even USE them..hell I never have.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS. Any information that needs relaying shows up on the War Herald first. People never look there so posters often link to the herald to show the latest information. Its only in interviews etc that it gets spread out more.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company. Instead you have paid middle men who just shuffle out at random. Atleast the way its going right now we get to directly talk to Mark Jacobs...if there were forums we'd get Mark Jacob's Bot.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems. ...I never seen techincal discussions become unsafe ... plus Mythic does have a Techincal Support website... they're just not having chit chat complain whine cause my class isn't uber forums. I wonder how many times we have to say that before it gets through to people who are dependant on whine forums.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place. DUde people surf the net anyway..the BEST forums for EQ2 aren't even RUN by Sony. Communities can't grow and build out of Official forujms...they simply stagnant.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
They have official crap everywhere but you know what Most people here don't even BOTHER looking...I dont know how many times I've seen people ask retarded questions about the game when the very information they're looking for is right on the front page of WarhammerOnline. Putting up forums and paying people to moderate them is a waste of resources and time.
Mythic has already succeeded doign things this way I don't see why you continue to gripe just because Vanguard fell on its ass. VAnguard didn't fall because of forums it fell because of complete incompetence.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Okay guys I have to point something out- you need to structure your posts a lot better so that people can read them easily.
I've been on alot of games, I never seen a forum moderated to a "higher standard". The only extra moderating I see are when the DEV's are specifically targeted. Again, this isn't a issue.
I was referring to a higher quality website ala WoWs forums. It is actually pretty sophisticated.
Again, Mythic has always kept updated info on their site. IF you needed more like class guides or quest guides, Mythic does a good job of linking you to the appropriate links. Making all info accessable in a ceentral location.
Again, not what I am talking about. I was referring to specific data compilations regarding numbers for such things as attacks, actual player experiences, and assorted.
Again, see number two. All this stuff can still be on there. Doesn't have to be in the official forums.
No it can't. And it won't.
[quote] Again, your argueing about central info. No body in the history of mmo's have ever gotten their "info" through offical forums. It was by people linking them or the website having the info which again, will be conveniantly linked for you.[/color]quote] Now I see you are COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH.
Again, I cite WoW forums. I have never had to go hunting for information about WoW outside of the official forum unless it was a quest-helper site. Everything was in there.
you have one of the most unique incredible MMO Offical sites.
I am a little off put by people that refer to the herald and grab bag by their special names in the first place. Its a Q@A that every website has.
That is it guys, just a Q@A.
So,to the people that want to make a big deal out of this to the point that they might not even try the game?
And another jab, I never said anything like that.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum?
I addressed this with very long posts, but it was a long time ago so I'll do a cliffnotes:
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
in all honesty why do you really care? You seem to be the biggest anti-war gamer on the boards. Just about every post made by you was something negative. Just do yourself a favor and don't play because its blatantly obvious you're either fishing for drama with no intent to play or just misinformed as to how well of a system mythic still has even without official forums.
this is probably why mythic doesn't have an official forum...so they don't need to deal with players like you that seem to whine about everything on a daily basis.
in all honesty why do you really care? You seem to be the biggest anti-war gamer on the boards. Just about every post made by you was something negative. Just do yourself a favor and don't play because its blatantly obvious you're either fishing for drama with no intent to play or just misinformed as to how well of a system mythic still has even without official forums.
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me.
2) Big anti-warhammer person =/= someone who worries about the game.
3) I already acknowledged that the game could be 100% fantastic despite the forums, but an imperfection is an imperfection is an imperfection.
this is probably why mythic doesn't have an official forum
You perceive any negative commentary, no matter how apologetic to the game itself, as a whine. Now that is pretty damn messed up and narrow-minded.
I am curious, what do you think a conversation about official forums would or should look like? If you think I am whining, I'd love to see an example. Mind you, a real discussion about it. My guess is that you don't believe it should ever have been brought up. My guess is that you would have this entire forum utterly devoid of discussion.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
You have shown me through your posts in this topic, that you are not a active member of WoWs forums.
1. There is more trash and spam there then any game discussion, in fact i'd put it as a 10 to 1 ratio of real post to troll/flame post.
2. The developers don't truely listen to your opinion.
I'm sorry you have some mispercieved notion that the devs actually read and care about what you have to say on the forum.
I have been playing wow since the beginning. And since the beginning, it has always been blizzards design based on their opinions.
Look at class balance before TBC. Paladins? A joke. Shamans? PvP you can do good as enh, but prepare to heal pve only. Druids, heal only. Priests? heal only. Fury wars outdpsing rogues, warlocks being totally worthless.
None of these were fixed before the xpac despite the class rebalancing patches which "helped"
You could then say "but tbc was all the players feedback put into the game"
While this is partially true, on another hand, it's also a complete untruth. There still were plenty of problems, and frankly blizzard continued their pattern of not listening.
Enhancement shaman in pvp? Feral in pvp? Warriors dominance in pvp? Fixes, feedback, numbers, problems were all displayed for blizzard, and blizzard flat out said
"we are happy with how it is, and if some specs aren't good in pvp, we don't care."
Are you talking about the blue responses in the general forums, which generally are.
"we are aware"
"joke post"
"restating of public knowledge, but since its blue its right even though millions said it beforehand"
etc etc
CoHs forums work, because its a niche game and the niche are the only ones that go there.
Look at AoCs forums, look at WoWs forums, thats how WAR will look.
in all honesty why do you really care? You seem to be the biggest anti-war gamer on the boards. Just about every post made by you was something negative. Just do yourself a favor and don't play because its blatantly obvious you're either fishing for drama with no intent to play or just misinformed as to how well of a system mythic still has even without official forums.
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me.
no, i think you just like to troll. You spent alot of time complaining about how bad of a move it was to do content cuts just to release the game on time. This was actually ingenious act marketing wise. That news generated so much attention both positive and negative and help spread the word about the game. Now ebay has them for sale with a $160 buy out and the price will probably jump once mythic can confirm a ship date.
Also, how can you be so sure about a game that you haven't played? For all you know it could be successful just the way it is now and when they implement the new classes/cities that will only boost its success.
2) Big anti-warhammer person =/= someone who worries about the game.
3) I already acknowledged that the game could be 100% fantastic despite the forums, but an imperfection is an imperfection is an imperfection.
why is the lack of official forums an imperfection? the herald combined with VN boards and other fansites worked fine with DaoC and I'm sure it'll work just as fine with WAR.
this is probably why mythic doesn't have an official forum
You perceive any negative commentary, no matter how apologetic to the game itself, as a whine. Now that is pretty damn messed up and narrow-minded.
I am curious, what do you think a conversation about official forums would or should look like? If you think I am whining, I'd love to see an example. Mind you, a real discussion about it. My guess is that you don't believe it should ever have been brought up. My guess is that you would have this entire forum utterly devoid of discussion.
nothing is wrong with forums but when the threads and stuff is cluttered with whining, spam, complaints, "i quit" threads, flame wars etc...thats just wasted manpower. The best part about them using fansites is the sites usually do a good job moderating which leaves the devs to just answering questions, talking about upcoming features, events etc..
nothing is wrong with a negative comment but all you seem to do is see the worst. try thinking outside of the box. Alot of what mythic does and has done is pretty smart, but if your only comparison is based on stuff you know or think you know then that is being narrow-minded
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me. no, i think you just like to troll. You spent alot of time complaining about how bad of a move it was to do content cuts just to release the game on time. This was actually ingenious act marketing wise.
So, now Mythic did a great job cutting content to increase the popularity of War? Do you really think this was the main reason and it was a positive thing?
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me. no, i think you just like to troll. You spent alot of time complaining about how bad of a move it was to do content cuts just to release the game on time. This was actually ingenious act marketing wise.
So, now Mythic did a great job cutting content to increase the popularity of War? Do you really think this was the main reason and it was a positive thing?
well...
i don't feel attention was the main reason for announcement of the cuts/delays. The reason they made the announcement was so the customers wouldn't be blindsided later on down the road. I'm sure marketing expected somekind explosion in the game community due to the announcement and fortunately for them it seems to have worked in their favor.
I've stated before that the cuts/delays are a positive thing. If things aren't ready to be in game then fix them up and implement them later. The cuts are only a small portion of the content and as much as I wanted to make a blackguard its not like i can't lvl a chosen while i wait.
Who can actually believe not having an official forum is a good idea, that is basically saying we dont want to interact with our community directly, we dont want to hear your input, nor do we want to discuss your grievances.
The only other MMo that doesnt have an official forum is FF11, and all those things are very much apperent, there is little to no player input when it comes to content or changes.
Having loose moderation on offical forums = trolls and flame wars
Having strict moderation on official forums = game company being called Nazi's
Having strict moderation on community run forums keeps the trolls and flamers in line without those same trolls and flamers being able to blame Mythic.
Warhammer Alliance is doing a wonderful job, and the site receives plenty of direct input from Mythic.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
I don't like the idea of not having official forums either, but seen under the light of Mythic's "honesty", I guess they're just sending out the message that they don't really care about people's opinions; only the cold hard facts they can obtain from them in order to fix bugs and the like. When they ask for your opinion, they'll do so in a controlled fill-this-form-please fashion, or even worse, a multiple choice questionnaire. Like many of you have stated, ("The resources and time needed to create a central forum are better used elsewhere!") this is not a good move for us, the players, it's a good move for them. Instead of being subjected to moderators who are required a certain degree of professionalism, mods people can report, we're gonna be subjected to mods and webmasters which are as volatile as the general posting population itself. Sure, the "professional" mods are, too, but they answer to a company... the others don't, they probable answer to friends. And don't give me the "LOOK AT AOC" crap because I can give you the "LOOK AT COH" or "LOOK AT EQ2" crap.
For those of you saying DAOC didn't need any and it did fine, let's consider that DAOC didn't have the numbers WAR will have. WAR has like triple the number of people solely in beta subs.
The interesting thing is that, in the end, everyone will gravitate around certain fansites that have already built a reputation, like Warhammer Alliance. Like someone else already said, this site (MMORPG.com) is totally dead when it comes to dev response. So, saying devs will surf the net in search of fansites is pure fallacy. They've already made chocies about which sites to support and which aren't worth it in their eyes. Isn't that, considering the possible huge numbers of people that will play this game, gonna result in centralized hubs of information? Not one, but no more than a dozen either (even less). They're just gonna let players sort themselves out without having to worry about maintaining a forum, or moderators. As I said, it's a convenient move for them. They'll just reap the numbers for fixes and leave out players' wordings attached to them. Let other players (fansite mods) deal with opinion, take the heat, and respond in their name.
And since our opinions are void of sense for them, well, I guess there's no point in keeping with this discussion, then.
To the posts responding to me above Bladins here, I already politely asked that you organize your posts so that I can actually read it and there is no confusion. Try to use the "traditional" format if you have problems with the quoting blocks please.
Originally posted by Bladin You have shown me through your posts in this topic, that you are not a active member of WoWs forums.
Not lately, it has been months since I participated in them.
As for the ratio of spam to real content and discussion, honestly it wasn't *that* bad, and the crap is really irrelevant. You can ignore it. Like I said, what actually matters is that content and community that a fansite doesn't really allow. really now, thing like Leeroy Jenkins would never have showed up on a fansite.
I'm sorry you have some mispercieved notion that the devs actually read and care about what you have to say on the forum.
Not about me but what the greater majority wants and thinks. I still haven't seen any kind of rebuttal for the two particular events that I cited.
You bring up class balance, and it is funny that you do because that is actually mostly the fault of the players on the forums
Paladins were originally over-powered, forum discontent changed that.
Shaman were over-powered, forums changed that.
Warlocks were under-powered, and hahaha, forums changed that.
Oh and by the way, all of this happened long before an expansion pack.
Now you can say that this is actually an argument against forum, but you would have to concede that I had a point about players being able to sway developers.
CoHs forums work, because its a niche game and the niche are the only ones that go there.
Mmm, WAR is technically a niche game.
Look at AoCs forums, look at WoWs forums, thats how WAR will look. And frankly its not good.
AoCs forum went pear-shaped because the game was a biblical catastrophe run by, IMO, con-artists.
WoWs forums, I'm looking at them again, they aren't too bad really.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
No Official forums keeps fan-sites busy and plus kinda saves them some time from reading the whiners and just the flat out idiots who have nothing better to do then just piss and cry and bitch about a damn game. Yes im a WAR-Fan .. but my god.. the amounts of bitching and moaning that goes into some of these forums really makes me question people.. like seriously.. its a game... relax.
No Official forums keeps fan-sites busy and plus kinda saves them some time from reading the whiners and just the flat out idiots who have nothing better to do then just piss and cry and bitch about a damn game. Yes im a WAR-Fan .. but my god.. the amounts of bitching and moaning that goes into some of these forums really makes me question people.. like seriously.. its a game... relax.
"Nerf X, Buff Z and Y is fine" <--- /wave
Maybe you should relax too. <Mod edit> Anyway, I hope at some point you will have to complain about some game mechanics. Then you will see how weak is your voice in a fansite forum. It is already weak in an official forum where at least they know you are paying, imagine in a fan site where anyone can post.
To the posts responding to me above Bladins here, I already politely asked that you organize your posts so that I can actually read it and there is no confusion. Try to use the "traditional" format if you have problems with the quoting blocks please.
Originally posted by Bladin
You have shown me through your posts in this topic, that you are not a active member of WoWs forums.
Not lately, it has been months since I participated in them.
As for the ratio of spam to real content and discussion, honestly it wasn't *that* bad, and the crap is really irrelevant. You can ignore it. Like I said, what actually matters is that content and community that a fansite doesn't really allow. really now, thing like Leeroy Jenkins would never have showed up on a fansite.
The thing is, it really is that bad, Earlier i screenscapped the first page of forums and was gonna mark the spam/trolls etc but i got tired of it halfway and just didnt continue. It really is that bad though. Every topic has the trolls come into the thread. every one. And then theres the keylogging spammers.
It would still show up on a fansite, things spread like wildfire, which is why a Faked screenshot of diablo 3 boxart was posted on one site, and it spread to the ENTIRE diablo 3 community.
I'm sorry you have some mispercieved notion that the devs actually read and care about what you have to say on the forum.
Not about me but what the greater majority wants and thinks. I still haven't seen any kind of rebuttal for the two particular events that I cited.
I'm sorry i missed those? if you'd be so kind as to repost I'll see what I have to say.
You bring up class balance, and it is funny that you do because that is actually mostly the fault of the players on the forums
Paladins were originally over-powered, forum discontent changed that.
At what? Tanking? nope, they were a joke, ret? yeah they were...no they were terrible too. Holy? t hey were damn good healers, and heck that salvation buff was pretty much easymode for alliance before it crossed over to both sides. If your talking beta, then maybe i didn't play paladin till a good ways after release and even then only to 42 since at the time i was rolling between many servers.
Shaman were over-powered, forums changed that.
Again, at what? Elemental? nope, they weren't taken to raids at all, and in pvp? once trinkets got put in they did good. Similar to 3/5 minute mages. Which is why old elemental videos are them hitting trinkets and cooldowns spliced together into a video that seems like constant ownage. Resto? Again they were forced to heal to raid.
The original Frost Shock train, was never really as big of a issue as people made it out to be, big deal i could keep someone snared when they were trying to run. But kiting people around while they were unable to attack, was frankly a rarity, in a 1v1 fight, maybe, and even then only against warriors if im doing it right.
Warlocks were under-powered, and hahaha, forums changed that.
It's true, before lolcoil, and their revamps they were second class to mages for a long time. They were overbuffed, but was it because of the forums? perhaps, but they were changed mainly due to a scaling/talent increase/shift not really player suggestions.
Oh and by the way, all of this happened long before an expansion pack.
The class revamps were not that much of a impact generally. A lot of the specs become more viable, but raid viability didn't truely change. A big change came when the tbc talents were released, but i consider that to me more a part of the expansion then a normal patch, since it was just a early release feature.
Now you can say that this is actually an argument against forum, but you would have to concede that I had a point about players being able to sway developers.
I agree that a mass outcry does generally affect. But look at DAoC it had way more balancing due to feedback and outcries of overpoweredness etc, and guess what? no official forums. I wouldn't say forums are a requirement to get feedback. Far from it. Then again, we get wotlk coming and you can see all the talent and stat and raid changes and guess what? Almost all of it were things blizzard did on their for their own vision. You can see some attempts at feedback response, but almost all of it is half asses knee-jerk changes.
CoHs forums work, because its a niche game and the niche are the only ones that go there.
Mmm, WAR is technically a niche game.
Heres we have to disagree, WAR is going to be a mainstream game, you can argue that it's only for the hardcore RvR crowd, but guess what, without going into details, let me just say that, it will appeal to the main mmo crowd.
Look at AoCs forums, look at WoWs forums, thats how WAR will look.
And frankly its not good.
AoCs forum went pear-shaped because the game was a biblical catastrophe run by, IMO, con-artists.
WoWs forums, I'm looking at them again, they aren't too bad really.
Are we looking at the same forums? The same ones that at night when no mods are available, it's not uncommon to find some hardcore porno posted.
Every post streams with idiocy being excreeted by trolls 24/7. It's nearly impossible to syphon out real knowledgable posts, and those full of bs and trolling.
Comments
In COX, there was this glitch where people could basically stick an opposing toon into these towers using a teleportation power. All kinds of people were angry they got totally stuck there until a same faction toon could get them out, and for some that took hours or days. People took it to the offical forums, their posts got locked and deleted for a bit, then POOF! A good mod walked down the hall to his boss and must have told them that this particular issue was really angering some who felt they were being perma-griefed in that zone. Few days later we got a fix.
The idea of leaving forums to a total fanboi 3rd party makes me leery, sorry. No matter how many devs post there.
I've never tried DAoC, but being told to go look at a third party fansite for 'officialish' forums makes me a bit gunshy about it. I'll go take a looksie at the daoc fansite forum things, but it seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it is a brilliant idea though, just too new for a lot of us forum types. I have heard great things about Mythic (sans EA
), and have enjoyed a few GW games in my day; I hope this works out ok but I'll have my doubts at the start.
In interviews and in official responses. The one that immediately leaps to mind is the controversial paladin interview that was before BC released.
Saying?
They are.
The town NPC issue that occurred after release, the warlock life-tap debacle, and assorted other things were told to Blizzard exclusively through forums and reacted on. I mean how else do you want to explain that?
FunCom, before the censorship was heavy-handed, did respond once in a while on and even acted on (admittedly small) issues. But, haha, I guess censorship goes to show that they are watching the forums :X
And this is unnecessary. I never said such things, never even implied them, nor believe it.Last I checked, we were talking about official forums and their purposes.
I have proven that official forums have been used to great and real affect by the company, and by their respective communities. That they can is enough, just how well other companies have used them is actually irrelevant. Slandering me isn't a good or civilized retort.
It was Warhammer alliance.
So why can't Mythic do the same thing on fan site forums? Why does it have to be an Official game forum? Either way Mythic can hear the fans and also keep their bias moderating out of it.
Listen the "not having an offical forum" is blown waaaaaay out of proportion. Out of all the games I played Mythic was the one that kept everyone updated on what they were in the process of doing and what was coming down the pipeline. Their herald's Grab bag answered alot of my questions most of the time.
Thier site, even back in DAOC days were innovative and full of updated info.
So far people that think offical forums are needed have not proven WHY they are needed or WHY Mythic hasn't implemented it yet.
You don;t need offical forums too:
Listen to your fan base.
Update your customers with new information.
Regulate Bad Press.
Promote your Game.
MYthic never had a problem with any of these things andI don't see why they sould this time either.
There is another thing. In official forums you can control that only people that have actually bought the game can post. Will we have that in a fansite?
Nope, but isn't that a good thing?
I'm going to be too busy playing WAR to come to the forums so I don't give a shit
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/192951
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
I've been on alot of games, I never seen a forum moderated to a "higher standard". The only extra moderating I see are when the DEV's are specifically targeted. Again, this isn't a issue.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
Again, Mythic has always kept updated info on their site. IF you needed more like class guides or quest guides, Mythic does a good job of linking you to the appropriate links. Making all info accessable in a ceentral location.
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
Again, see number two. All this stuff can still be on there. Doesn't have to be in the official forums.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
Again, your argueing about central info. No body in the history of mmo's have ever gotten their "info" through offical forums. It was by people linking them or the website having the info which again, will be conveniantly linked for you.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
There will be plenty of options to voice your opinion to Mythic through their feedback form. Thats if you think the middleman will run interference. :P
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
I don't get this one. Their will be a support questions page and surely a support FAQ. No problem here.
Finally, I never had a problem nor did I think I was peicemealing things together when trying to get info about that game. All your info gathering and forum fun is centrally located and can be accessed anytime. Add in the fact that they will have full on going RvR updates (in realtime)., a WoW Armory type page that promises to more info then any other game and you have one of the most unique incredible MMO Offical sites.
So,to the people that want to make a big deal out of this to the point that they might not even try the game? All I can say is that you spend way to much time on the Internet and not enough in game. Or maybe even too much time on both.
Here's the bottom line. Some people think Mythic doesn't care about the community, but if they didn't care then they wouldn't have everything you could find in a forum...without the forum. All of us should know that "discussion" quickly turns into "flaming whine fest." Technical support is handled by Mythic so you can get a straight answer without people flaming. Why is that worse?
Official forums. They're nice to have, but they're not necessary. And a game won't fail if it doesn't have them. Will it do better? Maybe, that's something we have to look at over time. It could do worse, but it won't fail.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Nope, but isn't that a good thing?
Yes it is.
Mythic is not, NOT forcing you to go to any fan sites! I think people just refuse to see what's in front of them.
For the older people Camelot Herald
For the new guys WAR Herald
Everything you need to know is there. Videos, Blogs from the devs, NEWS!, rankings in pvp, server status, upcoming patch notes...
When it comes to DAoC they do a weekly "grab bag" where they answer a good chunk of questions that people have sent in to them via the FEEDBACK section on their site. It allows you to send them your questions, concerns, comments, or what have you without having to listen to other people spout their disagreements with you in a most nonconstructive way.
During my time with DAoC I've seen plenty of communication on the VN boards between Mythic and the player base. If you think that because the forum has an "official" tag to it makes it just that much better of a conduit to the all mighty developers makes you diluted at best. I personally applaud them for no forums because quite frankly if they put out a solid product that is fun and engaging then I will not be spending all my time on the forums debating the fact that the shade of green an orc is should be something else.. I'm going to be playing the game, interacting with the immediate people on my server. I don't need to hear some pilloc on some server thrice removed from mine complaining how some guild on his server runs the monopoly on chain mail athletic supporters.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard. I hardly call censoring opinions & locking threads because its not an issue they wish to discuss etc etc as a higher standard. If anything official forums are like Darth Vader...with a crushing sweep of their hand they can silence you forever.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information Not really ... the only central information you might get is status of the servers & patch notes...all of which Mythic is Providing on their Official website. You don't get to post to any of these threads in most games so there's realy no need for a forum for that. If you mean quest information etc...i'd rather go to a 3rd party site dedicated to quests class builds etc where the information is centralized instead of spread out over 10x billion posts.
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers. Compare & contrast what data? What numbers? Sub numbers? You can't tell sub numbers by forum posters lots of us dont even USE them..hell I never have.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS. Any information that needs relaying shows up on the War Herald first. People never look there so posters often link to the herald to show the latest information. Its only in interviews etc that it gets spread out more.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company. Instead you have paid middle men who just shuffle out at random. Atleast the way its going right now we get to directly talk to Mark Jacobs...if there were forums we'd get Mark Jacob's Bot.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems. ...I never seen techincal discussions become unsafe ... plus Mythic does have a Techincal Support website... they're just not having chit chat complain whine cause my class isn't uber forums. I wonder how many times we have to say that before it gets through to people who are dependant on whine forums.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place. DUde people surf the net anyway..the BEST forums for EQ2 aren't even RUN by Sony. Communities can't grow and build out of Official forujms...they simply stagnant.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/192951
They have official crap everywhere but you know what Most people here don't even BOTHER looking...I dont know how many times I've seen people ask retarded questions about the game when the very information they're looking for is right on the front page of WarhammerOnline. Putting up forums and paying people to moderate them is a waste of resources and time.
Mythic has already succeeded doign things this way I don't see why you continue to gripe just because Vanguard fell on its ass. VAnguard didn't fall because of forums it fell because of complete incompetence.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Okay guys I have to point something out- you need to structure your posts a lot better so that people can read them easily.
I was referring to a higher quality website ala WoWs forums. It is actually pretty sophisticated.
Again, not what I am talking about. I was referring to specific data compilations regarding numbers for such things as attacks, actual player experiences, and assorted. No it can't. And it won't.[quote]
Again, your argueing about central info. No body in the history of mmo's have ever gotten their "info" through offical forums. It was by people linking them or the website having the info which again, will be conveniantly linked for you.[/color]quote]
Now I see you are COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH.
Again, I cite WoW forums. I have never had to go hunting for information about WoW outside of the official forum unless it was a quest-helper site. Everything was in there.
I am a little off put by people that refer to the herald and grab bag by their special names in the first place. Its a Q@A that every website has.
That is it guys, just a Q@A.
And another jab, I never said anything like that.___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
1) Official game forum means a forum that is officially moderated and maintained to a higher standard.
2) Official forum means having one centralized hub of information
3) As a singular hub of information, it is much easier to compare/contrast data, and subsequently compiling it. Especially if it has to do with numbers.
4) Official forum means not having to search for piecemeal information relayed by the devs at fansites. I have seen several people ask "link please" already. That it TOTAL BS.
5) No middleman running interference, deliberately or not, between the community and the company.
6) A safe zone to discuss technical problems.
It is overall better to have one forum, than to have people surfing the internet looking for this fansite or that one and hoping what they find is the one with what they are looking for. Out of luck if you don't know any fansite or that you should look for something in the first place.
edit: Now you see this is what I am talking about. This needs to be posted on an official website-
Why should I have to visit Bobs Garage for a companies official statement about their product? Jesus. That just isn't right.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/192951
in all honesty why do you really care? You seem to be the biggest anti-war gamer on the boards. Just about every post made by you was something negative. Just do yourself a favor and don't play because its blatantly obvious you're either fishing for drama with no intent to play or just misinformed as to how well of a system mythic still has even without official forums.
this is probably why mythic doesn't have an official forum...so they don't need to deal with players like you that seem to whine about everything on a daily basis.
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me.
2) Big anti-warhammer person =/= someone who worries about the game.
3) I already acknowledged that the game could be 100% fantastic despite the forums, but an imperfection is an imperfection is an imperfection.
You perceive any negative commentary, no matter how apologetic to the game itself, as a whine. Now that is pretty damn messed up and narrow-minded.
I am curious, what do you think a conversation about official forums would or should look like? If you think I am whining, I'd love to see an example. Mind you, a real discussion about it. My guess is that you don't believe it should ever have been brought up. My guess is that you would have this entire forum utterly devoid of discussion.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Gazenthia
You have shown me through your posts in this topic, that you are not a active member of WoWs forums.
1. There is more trash and spam there then any game discussion, in fact i'd put it as a 10 to 1 ratio of real post to troll/flame post.
2. The developers don't truely listen to your opinion.
I'm sorry you have some mispercieved notion that the devs actually read and care about what you have to say on the forum.
I have been playing wow since the beginning. And since the beginning, it has always been blizzards design based on their opinions.
Look at class balance before TBC. Paladins? A joke. Shamans? PvP you can do good as enh, but prepare to heal pve only. Druids, heal only. Priests? heal only. Fury wars outdpsing rogues, warlocks being totally worthless.
None of these were fixed before the xpac despite the class rebalancing patches which "helped"
You could then say "but tbc was all the players feedback put into the game"
While this is partially true, on another hand, it's also a complete untruth. There still were plenty of problems, and frankly blizzard continued their pattern of not listening.
Enhancement shaman in pvp? Feral in pvp? Warriors dominance in pvp? Fixes, feedback, numbers, problems were all displayed for blizzard, and blizzard flat out said
"we are happy with how it is, and if some specs aren't good in pvp, we don't care."
Are you talking about the blue responses in the general forums, which generally are.
"we are aware"
"joke post"
"restating of public knowledge, but since its blue its right even though millions said it beforehand"
etc etc
CoHs forums work, because its a niche game and the niche are the only ones that go there.
Look at AoCs forums, look at WoWs forums, thats how WAR will look.
And frankly its not good.
1) I care about the success of the game, and you aren't going to stop me.
no, i think you just like to troll. You spent alot of time complaining about how bad of a move it was to do content cuts just to release the game on time. This was actually ingenious act marketing wise. That news generated so much attention both positive and negative and help spread the word about the game. Now ebay has them for sale with a $160 buy out and the price will probably jump once mythic can confirm a ship date.
Also, how can you be so sure about a game that you haven't played? For all you know it could be successful just the way it is now and when they implement the new classes/cities that will only boost its success.
2) Big anti-warhammer person =/= someone who worries about the game.
3) I already acknowledged that the game could be 100% fantastic despite the forums, but an imperfection is an imperfection is an imperfection.
why is the lack of official forums an imperfection? the herald combined with VN boards and other fansites worked fine with DaoC and I'm sure it'll work just as fine with WAR.
You perceive any negative commentary, no matter how apologetic to the game itself, as a whine. Now that is pretty damn messed up and narrow-minded.
I am curious, what do you think a conversation about official forums would or should look like? If you think I am whining, I'd love to see an example. Mind you, a real discussion about it. My guess is that you don't believe it should ever have been brought up. My guess is that you would have this entire forum utterly devoid of discussion.
nothing is wrong with forums but when the threads and stuff is cluttered with whining, spam, complaints, "i quit" threads, flame wars etc...thats just wasted manpower. The best part about them using fansites is the sites usually do a good job moderating which leaves the devs to just answering questions, talking about upcoming features, events etc..
nothing is wrong with a negative comment but all you seem to do is see the worst. try thinking outside of the box. Alot of what mythic does and has done is pretty smart, but if your only comparison is based on stuff you know or think you know then that is being narrow-minded
So, now Mythic did a great job cutting content to increase the popularity of War? Do you really think this was the main reason and it was a positive thing?
well...
...
So, now Mythic did a great job cutting content to increase the popularity of War? Do you really think this was the main reason and it was a positive thing?
well...
i don't feel attention was the main reason for announcement of the cuts/delays. The reason they made the announcement was so the customers wouldn't be blindsided later on down the road. I'm sure marketing expected somekind explosion in the game community due to the announcement and fortunately for them it seems to have worked in their favor.
I've stated before that the cuts/delays are a positive thing. If things aren't ready to be in game then fix them up and implement them later. The cuts are only a small portion of the content and as much as I wanted to make a blackguard its not like i can't lvl a chosen while i wait.
Having loose moderation on offical forums = trolls and flame wars
Having strict moderation on official forums = game company being called Nazi's
Having strict moderation on community run forums keeps the trolls and flamers in line without those same trolls and flamers being able to blame Mythic.
Warhammer Alliance is doing a wonderful job, and the site receives plenty of direct input from Mythic.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
......and thankfully so! Official Forums are a bad idea!
ALWAYS!
I don't like the idea of not having official forums either, but seen under the light of Mythic's "honesty", I guess they're just sending out the message that they don't really care about people's opinions; only the cold hard facts they can obtain from them in order to fix bugs and the like. When they ask for your opinion, they'll do so in a controlled fill-this-form-please fashion, or even worse, a multiple choice questionnaire. Like many of you have stated, ("The resources and time needed to create a central forum are better used elsewhere!") this is not a good move for us, the players, it's a good move for them. Instead of being subjected to moderators who are required a certain degree of professionalism, mods people can report, we're gonna be subjected to mods and webmasters which are as volatile as the general posting population itself. Sure, the "professional" mods are, too, but they answer to a company... the others don't, they probable answer to friends. And don't give me the "LOOK AT AOC" crap because I can give you the "LOOK AT COH" or "LOOK AT EQ2" crap.
For those of you saying DAOC didn't need any and it did fine, let's consider that DAOC didn't have the numbers WAR will have. WAR has like triple the number of people solely in beta subs.
The interesting thing is that, in the end, everyone will gravitate around certain fansites that have already built a reputation, like Warhammer Alliance. Like someone else already said, this site (MMORPG.com) is totally dead when it comes to dev response. So, saying devs will surf the net in search of fansites is pure fallacy. They've already made chocies about which sites to support and which aren't worth it in their eyes. Isn't that, considering the possible huge numbers of people that will play this game, gonna result in centralized hubs of information? Not one, but no more than a dozen either (even less). They're just gonna let players sort themselves out without having to worry about maintaining a forum, or moderators. As I said, it's a convenient move for them. They'll just reap the numbers for fixes and leave out players' wordings attached to them. Let other players (fansite mods) deal with opinion, take the heat, and respond in their name.
And since our opinions are void of sense for them, well, I guess there's no point in keeping with this discussion, then.
To the posts responding to me above Bladins here, I already politely asked that you organize your posts so that I can actually read it and there is no confusion. Try to use the "traditional" format if you have problems with the quoting blocks please.
Not lately, it has been months since I participated in them.
As for the ratio of spam to real content and discussion, honestly it wasn't *that* bad, and the crap is really irrelevant. You can ignore it. Like I said, what actually matters is that content and community that a fansite doesn't really allow. really now, thing like Leeroy Jenkins would never have showed up on a fansite.
Not about me but what the greater majority wants and thinks. I still haven't seen any kind of rebuttal for the two particular events that I cited.
You bring up class balance, and it is funny that you do because that is actually mostly the fault of the players on the forums
Paladins were originally over-powered, forum discontent changed that.
Shaman were over-powered, forums changed that.
Warlocks were under-powered, and hahaha, forums changed that.
Oh and by the way, all of this happened long before an expansion pack.
Now you can say that this is actually an argument against forum, but you would have to concede that I had a point about players being able to sway developers.
Mmm, WAR is technically a niche game.AoCs forum went pear-shaped because the game was a biblical catastrophe run by, IMO, con-artists.WoWs forums, I'm looking at them again, they aren't too bad really.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
I LOVE IT!
No Official forums keeps fan-sites busy and plus kinda saves them some time from reading the whiners and just the flat out idiots who have nothing better to do then just piss and cry and bitch about a damn game. Yes im a WAR-Fan .. but my god.. the amounts of bitching and moaning that goes into some of these forums really makes me question people.. like seriously.. its a game... relax.
"Nerf X, Buff Z and Y is fine" <--- /wave
Maybe you should relax too. <Mod edit>
Anyway, I hope at some point you will have to complain about some game mechanics. Then you will see how weak is your voice in a fansite forum. It is already weak in an official forum where at least they know you are paying, imagine in a fan site where anyone can post.
Not lately, it has been months since I participated in them.
As for the ratio of spam to real content and discussion, honestly it wasn't *that* bad, and the crap is really irrelevant. You can ignore it. Like I said, what actually matters is that content and community that a fansite doesn't really allow. really now, thing like Leeroy Jenkins would never have showed up on a fansite.
The thing is, it really is that bad, Earlier i screenscapped the first page of forums and was gonna mark the spam/trolls etc but i got tired of it halfway and just didnt continue. It really is that bad though. Every topic has the trolls come into the thread. every one. And then theres the keylogging spammers.
It would still show up on a fansite, things spread like wildfire, which is why a Faked screenshot of diablo 3 boxart was posted on one site, and it spread to the ENTIRE diablo 3 community.
Not about me but what the greater majority wants and thinks. I still haven't seen any kind of rebuttal for the two particular events that I cited.
I'm sorry i missed those? if you'd be so kind as to repost I'll see what I have to say.
You bring up class balance, and it is funny that you do because that is actually mostly the fault of the players on the forums
Paladins were originally over-powered, forum discontent changed that.
At what? Tanking? nope, they were a joke, ret? yeah they were...no they were terrible too. Holy? t hey were damn good healers, and heck that salvation buff was pretty much easymode for alliance before it crossed over to both sides. If your talking beta, then maybe i didn't play paladin till a good ways after release and even then only to 42 since at the time i was rolling between many servers.
Shaman were over-powered, forums changed that.
Again, at what? Elemental? nope, they weren't taken to raids at all, and in pvp? once trinkets got put in they did good. Similar to 3/5 minute mages. Which is why old elemental videos are them hitting trinkets and cooldowns spliced together into a video that seems like constant ownage. Resto? Again they were forced to heal to raid.
The original Frost Shock train, was never really as big of a issue as people made it out to be, big deal i could keep someone snared when they were trying to run. But kiting people around while they were unable to attack, was frankly a rarity, in a 1v1 fight, maybe, and even then only against warriors if im doing it right.
Warlocks were under-powered, and hahaha, forums changed that.
It's true, before lolcoil, and their revamps they were second class to mages for a long time. They were overbuffed, but was it because of the forums? perhaps, but they were changed mainly due to a scaling/talent increase/shift not really player suggestions.
Oh and by the way, all of this happened long before an expansion pack.
The class revamps were not that much of a impact generally. A lot of the specs become more viable, but raid viability didn't truely change. A big change came when the tbc talents were released, but i consider that to me more a part of the expansion then a normal patch, since it was just a early release feature.
Now you can say that this is actually an argument against forum, but you would have to concede that I had a point about players being able to sway developers.
I agree that a mass outcry does generally affect. But look at DAoC it had way more balancing due to feedback and outcries of overpoweredness etc, and guess what? no official forums. I wouldn't say forums are a requirement to get feedback. Far from it. Then again, we get wotlk coming and you can see all the talent and stat and raid changes and guess what? Almost all of it were things blizzard did on their for their own vision. You can see some attempts at feedback response, but almost all of it is half asses knee-jerk changes.
Mmm, WAR is technically a niche game. AoCs forum went pear-shaped because the game was a biblical catastrophe run by, IMO, con-artists.WoWs forums, I'm looking at them again, they aren't too bad really.