If this is in any way a successful melding of DAoC RvR with the intuitive and ease of use from WoW then it'll "pwn" every other MMO for me. Many will never try it and I don't see it ever reaching WoW's subs since they don't have Blizzard's diety status in Asia.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
It won't simply because it's pvp oriented. There's a larger market for PVE than there is for PvP.
Really? AoC was touted as a PvP oriented game and that sold quite well when it launched.
Thats a myth, and its been proven wrong.
Too bad AoCs PvP sucks compared to WAR.. OR it just sucks period... 1 hitters anyone? Lacking combo system anyone? Aoe heals over time anyone? Laggy crappy broken sieges anyone? lacking class balance anyone? CRAP CRAP CRAP... With any luck AoC did not turn people off to pvp because of their terrible excuse for pvp and WAR will show people what pvp is really about.
I strongly believe WAR will do much better than AoC has done thus far...
However, I don't see anything outdoing WoW as far as subscription numbers go, at least not any time soon. You have to consider that the game has been around for years, people are already peaked out in that game "pwning faces." Sure, they might freeze their accounts and try something new for a bit, but lets face it. Most people aren't going to want to put in the effort to start from scratch again, especially after playing on ezmode in WoW.
Even thinking WAR will overtake WoW's NA and EU subs is complete lunacy!
No it isn't. You know how I was so concerned about WAR? Not anymore.
If WAR doesn't match the success of WoW than it simply can't be done, not even by Blizzard themselves, until the pool of players increases by about 2-3 fold and that is all there is to it. But I reiterate, I think WAR is probably the next Big One, for real this time.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
It won't simply because it's pvp oriented. There's a larger market for PVE than there is for PvP.
Really? AoC was touted as a PvP oriented game and that sold quite well when it launched.
Thats a myth, and its been proven wrong.
AoC had 700k boxes sold. We may never know the true success of the game however. You may actually be right and there is a larger market for PVP. We all know that the true failure of AoC was not the ip/lore/concept, but rather Funcom. Probably as much as 20% of the population quit right off the bat due to the lies of funcom. They were told so much would be in the game and when they got there, none of it was there. The other, 20-30% of the population slowly left shortly after due to lack of content past level 50.
If Funcom had not failed, AoC could very well have as many as 2mil players and a constant rise of people. But as it stands now, they have well under 1mil with a very small interest.
I do believe that there are many people out there that love PVP (like me). On top of that, Warhammer does have PVE. The PQ's are absolutely beautiful. But also, the capital cities themselves have PVE. While you are doing pvp to take control, PQ's spawn up as part of taking the city. Once you have control, you unlock 3 massive PVE dungeons to farm. So WAR isn't just about the most amazing PVP concept you will ever experience, it does have PVE.
At the moment, I just can not see it having anymore than 2million people. I don't see enough people attracted to PVP. But then again, whenever I log into WoW. I see a TON of people PVP'ing. Doing those lame no-skill required arenas. Plus, Guild Wars has about 4-5million players and that's also a PVP oriented game. So you could be right when you say this game will have a huge player base.
I will personally wait until the game is released before I make any further conclusions. This is not too say I will not force my noob WoW friends to play the game. I will tell everyone I know personnally to play WAR as will I. I do hope WAR will have way more than 2mil players so we can finally eradicate WoW from the charts once and for all. But whatever happens.. happens. I'm not a fanboy persay. I just play whatever game attracts me the most. At the moment, I have more fun playing WAR than WoW. but will likely play both - if I can afford it :P.
I strongly believe WAR will do much better than AoC has done thus far... However, I don't see anything outdoing WoW as far as subscription numbers go, at least not any time soon. You have to consider that the game has been around for years, people are already peaked out in that game "pwning faces." Sure, they might freeze their accounts and try something new for a bit, but lets face it. Most people aren't going to want to put in the effort to start from scratch again, especially after playing on ezmode in WoW.
This is a very good point. Many people have put 2-4 years of their life into WoW, they will not just give it up. They may leave for 1 or even 2 years, but they will return. Especially when they have it made in WoW right now. It's so incredibly easy to do ANYTHING in WoW. This may turn off players as they enter WAR. After the thought of having to start from scratch is already a pain. Not being able to kill people easily in WAR because it's skill based and not item based will annoy the people that are used to "pwning" in WoW due to good gear.
The only real reason why I think WAR will make a big impact is due to it's release. Since WOTLK will reset the playerbase of WoW just like BC. Once that level cap is increased from 70 - 80, all that level 70 gear is useless. Plus, you now have to level up to 80 and start the whole raiding process over again. A lot of people in WoW currently have the top end Tier 6 gear. They are at the peak of the game and can't get any better. So there's no need for hardcore raiding other than to get random epics and gear out alts. But once WOTLK is released, they have to raid all over again to get Tier 7-8 gear and hit level 80.
This could be very good for WAR and also very bad. A lot of people may quit WoW to play WAR, but will have the urge to go back to WoW just to try out the new expansion.
Either way, if WAR doesn't "kill" WoW, the ONLY other possible game that can do so that will be released within the next 2-3 years, is KOTORMMO. Not even Darkfall will be able to do it. Like someone else said already, not even Blizzard can beat their own game again. Even if they release like... a starcraft MMO could they actually triumph WoW. There's just something about WoW that attracts many people and if you ask Blizzard I bet they wouldn't even be able to tell you.
My only guess is the sheer easyness and playability of WoW. It's so easy to just be able to start anywhere at any time and get in the game. Plus it can virtually run on just about any computer ever made.
Most people aren't going to want to put in the effort to start from scratch again, especially after playing on ezmode in WoW.
WoW has long, long since run its course.
The only reason it has the subscribers it does right now is because there is no significant competitor at all. The game was great, but it is several years old and has been deteriorating in quality amongst other things.
Another thing to consider is the fact that WAR is/will be seen as the true sequel to WoW, and indeed it appears that WAR has learned from the weaknesses of WoW.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
This is my opinion.. and its going to be represented just as that my opinion. I've been in closed beta since around the start of the year. Nothing I'm going to say is relevant to NDA and the only reason I mention closed beta.. is that I've seen what there was.. and what there is atm.
so imho...
I don't honestly believe people who really liked DAoC will like WAR. To me its absolutely nothing like DAoC other than it includes siege warfare. People who wanted DAoC 2.0... in my opinion will not find it here.
People who like WoW already have WoW... reinventing the game will not help unless its very different and done much better. Again this is my opinion.
That said I'm not really sure what Market WAR is going for.
I would easily expect WAR to sell the 700,000 boxes AoC claims to have sold (or more).
But I certainly don't see this game doing anything to WoW. People who are bored will buy it and then buy the WoW expansion.
Only two things I'll watch for...
1) If this game doesn't see in the number AoC did.. I would be surpised and wonder why.
2) I wonder what the actual retention rate will be for the first 3 to 6 months.
The only intellegent thing I ever heard the lead on AoC say was... WoW was just one of those things like Facebook... you can't really replicate it on purpose.. and its a social phenom...
What WAR should be looking to do is.. do well in the market.
Why would you want anything to kill WoW? More successful games in the market means more people willing to invest in game development so that hopefully we get more decent games... rather than the current trend.
I do hope WAR does really well... many more MMO failures and it will be very hard to secure funding or convince share holders that an MMO is a good idea.
I strongly believe WAR will do much better than AoC has done thus far... However, I don't see anything outdoing WoW as far as subscription numbers go, at least not any time soon. You have to consider that the game has been around for years, people are already peaked out in that game "pwning faces." Sure, they might freeze their accounts and try something new for a bit, but lets face it. Most people aren't going to want to put in the effort to start from scratch again, especially after playing on ezmode in WoW.
This is a very good point. Many people have put 2-4 years of their life into WoW, they will not just give it up. They may leave for 1 or even 2 years, but they will return. Especially when they have it made in WoW right now. It's so incredibly easy to do ANYTHING in WoW. This may turn off players as they enter WAR. After the thought of having to start from scratch is already a pain. Not being able to kill people easily in WAR because it's skill based and not item based will annoy the people that are used to "pwning" in WoW due to good gear.
Huh? i have played wow for 4 years and SOOO rdy to jump to any decent game that release and WAR is more than only a decent game .
Originally posted by Antarious People who like WoW already have WoW... reinventing the game will not help unless its very different and done much better.
People are tired of WoW though. We already know that WAR has capitalized on the strengths and weaknesses of WoW with the heavy open world PvP and the public quest system.
Why would you want anything to kill WoW?
Because the game has tanked in overall quality, with poor customer service. Their latest expansion is lackluster, with at least one regression from TBC. They need a slap in the face IMO, because they are only putting minimal effort into WoWs development now. A sudden sharp decline is really what needs to happen.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
I don't get why people that consider themselves MMO players wish ill on any other game. If someone wants to play a game then let them play and stfu. These are GAMES. The more games the better. I wish all games could be successful so we'd get better funded games made by better people brought in because the market is so huge. WAR doesn't need to destroy WOW to be successful. You don't have to be an elitist ass to be an MMO player either. Have fun and stop trying to crap on everyone else.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I wish all games could be successful so we'd get better funded games made by better people brought in because the market is so huge.
Actually the technical success of most mmorpgs is exactly what is wrong with mmorpgs in general. They won't fix something that isn't broken, putting in the bare minimum.
WAR doesn't need to destroy WOW to be successful.
It doesn't, but taking away the player base from WoW would definitely increase WARs success exponentially. while forcing the quality of WoW to go up.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
I wish all games could be successful so we'd get better funded games made by better people brought in because the market is so huge.
Actually the technical success of most mmorpgs is exactly what is wrong with mmorpgs in general. They won't fix something that isn't broken, putting in the bare minimum.
Bland and buggy games fail. The technical success of one isn't a detriment to the others. Boredom with a game doesn't mean it's broken. You can't expect a game to be reinvented with every expansion. If a game company has a successful MMO, then common sense would tell you that they want to keep those customers and while you may not agree with their design choices or content additions, it doesn't mean they are half-assing it. Ultimately it's their purpose to make money and retaining their customers is how they do it, but you can't fix age. People grow tired of a game and want something new.
WAR doesn't need to destroy WOW to be successful.
It doesn't, but taking away the player base from WoW would definitely increase WARs success exponentially. while forcing the quality of WoW to go up.
I agree with the first, but the second is speculation. I would be just as happy if players came from many different games along with new blood to the genre. I'm totally against the "I hate WOW" meme. It turns MMO forums into predictable, tiresome and frivolous bickering.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I usually have good "hunch" about the games .... What I think is that WAR , will no question about it be the second ranked p2p MMO It may even reach 2 million players (or more if its get ported to asia)
It will never be popular as WOW , but thats the dead race. WOW had over 4 years being the single and only quality MMO , and it has build quite some following. And it is PVE game , while PVP Warhammer is bit more niche
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I usually have good "hunch" about the games .... What I think is that WAR , will no question about it be the second ranked p2p MMO It may even reach 2 million players (or more if its get ported to asia)
It will never be popular as WOW , but thats the dead race. WOW had over 4 years being the single and only quality MMO , and it has build quite some following. And it is PVE game , while PVP Warhammer is bit more niche
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
I usually have good "hunch" about the games .... What I think is that WAR , will no question about it be the second ranked p2p MMO It may even reach 2 million players (or more if its get ported to asia)
It will never be popular as WOW , but thats the dead race. WOW had over 4 years being the single and only quality MMO , and it has build quite some following. And it is PVE game , while PVP Warhammer is bit more niche
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
Sadly, it is.
Hm I cant agree with you on that. Don't get me wrong, I know WoW is a great game, but I don't think it's alone in it's superior quality. No, I think Eve is definitely something that should be considered as another top mmorpg.
Comments
If this is in any way a successful melding of DAoC RvR with the intuitive and ease of use from WoW then it'll "pwn" every other MMO for me. Many will never try it and I don't see it ever reaching WoW's subs since they don't have Blizzard's diety status in Asia.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
warhammer looks terrible why is there such hype over it
^^ Age of Conan player^^
Really? AoC was touted as a PvP oriented game and that sold quite well when it launched.
Thats a myth, and its been proven wrong.
WAR ROCKS
.
Really? AoC was touted as a PvP oriented game and that sold quite well when it launched.
Thats a myth, and its been proven wrong.
Too bad AoCs PvP sucks compared to WAR.. OR it just sucks period... 1 hitters anyone? Lacking combo system anyone? Aoe heals over time anyone? Laggy crappy broken sieges anyone? lacking class balance anyone? CRAP CRAP CRAP... With any luck AoC did not turn people off to pvp because of their terrible excuse for pvp and WAR will show people what pvp is really about.
I strongly believe WAR will do much better than AoC has done thus far...
However, I don't see anything outdoing WoW as far as subscription numbers go, at least not any time soon. You have to consider that the game has been around for years, people are already peaked out in that game "pwning faces." Sure, they might freeze their accounts and try something new for a bit, but lets face it. Most people aren't going to want to put in the effort to start from scratch again, especially after playing on ezmode in WoW.
No it isn't. You know how I was so concerned about WAR? Not anymore.
If WAR doesn't match the success of WoW than it simply can't be done, not even by Blizzard themselves, until the pool of players increases by about 2-3 fold and that is all there is to it. But I reiterate, I think WAR is probably the next Big One, for real this time.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Really? AoC was touted as a PvP oriented game and that sold quite well when it launched.
Thats a myth, and its been proven wrong.
AoC had 700k boxes sold. We may never know the true success of the game however. You may actually be right and there is a larger market for PVP. We all know that the true failure of AoC was not the ip/lore/concept, but rather Funcom. Probably as much as 20% of the population quit right off the bat due to the lies of funcom. They were told so much would be in the game and when they got there, none of it was there. The other, 20-30% of the population slowly left shortly after due to lack of content past level 50.
If Funcom had not failed, AoC could very well have as many as 2mil players and a constant rise of people. But as it stands now, they have well under 1mil with a very small interest.
I do believe that there are many people out there that love PVP (like me). On top of that, Warhammer does have PVE. The PQ's are absolutely beautiful. But also, the capital cities themselves have PVE. While you are doing pvp to take control, PQ's spawn up as part of taking the city. Once you have control, you unlock 3 massive PVE dungeons to farm. So WAR isn't just about the most amazing PVP concept you will ever experience, it does have PVE.
At the moment, I just can not see it having anymore than 2million people. I don't see enough people attracted to PVP. But then again, whenever I log into WoW. I see a TON of people PVP'ing. Doing those lame no-skill required arenas. Plus, Guild Wars has about 4-5million players and that's also a PVP oriented game. So you could be right when you say this game will have a huge player base.
I will personally wait until the game is released before I make any further conclusions. This is not too say I will not force my noob WoW friends to play the game. I will tell everyone I know personnally to play WAR as will I. I do hope WAR will have way more than 2mil players so we can finally eradicate WoW from the charts once and for all. But whatever happens.. happens. I'm not a fanboy persay. I just play whatever game attracts me the most. At the moment, I have more fun playing WAR than WoW. but will likely play both - if I can afford it :P.
Playing: WoW,
Played: Aion, AoC, Eve, EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, Runescape, Guild Wars, DAoC, Planetside, SWG, WAR, Darkfall
Wanting to try: DCU Online
Waiting For: Star Wars The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2.
This is a very good point. Many people have put 2-4 years of their life into WoW, they will not just give it up. They may leave for 1 or even 2 years, but they will return. Especially when they have it made in WoW right now. It's so incredibly easy to do ANYTHING in WoW. This may turn off players as they enter WAR. After the thought of having to start from scratch is already a pain. Not being able to kill people easily in WAR because it's skill based and not item based will annoy the people that are used to "pwning" in WoW due to good gear.
The only real reason why I think WAR will make a big impact is due to it's release. Since WOTLK will reset the playerbase of WoW just like BC. Once that level cap is increased from 70 - 80, all that level 70 gear is useless. Plus, you now have to level up to 80 and start the whole raiding process over again. A lot of people in WoW currently have the top end Tier 6 gear. They are at the peak of the game and can't get any better. So there's no need for hardcore raiding other than to get random epics and gear out alts. But once WOTLK is released, they have to raid all over again to get Tier 7-8 gear and hit level 80.
This could be very good for WAR and also very bad. A lot of people may quit WoW to play WAR, but will have the urge to go back to WoW just to try out the new expansion.
Either way, if WAR doesn't "kill" WoW, the ONLY other possible game that can do so that will be released within the next 2-3 years, is KOTORMMO. Not even Darkfall will be able to do it. Like someone else said already, not even Blizzard can beat their own game again. Even if they release like... a starcraft MMO could they actually triumph WoW. There's just something about WoW that attracts many people and if you ask Blizzard I bet they wouldn't even be able to tell you.
My only guess is the sheer easyness and playability of WoW. It's so easy to just be able to start anywhere at any time and get in the game. Plus it can virtually run on just about any computer ever made.
Playing: WoW,
Played: Aion, AoC, Eve, EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, Runescape, Guild Wars, DAoC, Planetside, SWG, WAR, Darkfall
Wanting to try: DCU Online
Waiting For: Star Wars The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2.
WoW has long, long since run its course.
The only reason it has the subscribers it does right now is because there is no significant competitor at all. The game was great, but it is several years old and has been deteriorating in quality amongst other things.
Another thing to consider is the fact that WAR is/will be seen as the true sequel to WoW, and indeed it appears that WAR has learned from the weaknesses of WoW.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
This is my opinion.. and its going to be represented just as that my opinion. I've been in closed beta since around the start of the year. Nothing I'm going to say is relevant to NDA and the only reason I mention closed beta.. is that I've seen what there was.. and what there is atm.
so imho...
I don't honestly believe people who really liked DAoC will like WAR. To me its absolutely nothing like DAoC other than it includes siege warfare. People who wanted DAoC 2.0... in my opinion will not find it here.
People who like WoW already have WoW... reinventing the game will not help unless its very different and done much better. Again this is my opinion.
That said I'm not really sure what Market WAR is going for.
I would easily expect WAR to sell the 700,000 boxes AoC claims to have sold (or more).
But I certainly don't see this game doing anything to WoW. People who are bored will buy it and then buy the WoW expansion.
Only two things I'll watch for...
1) If this game doesn't see in the number AoC did.. I would be surpised and wonder why.
2) I wonder what the actual retention rate will be for the first 3 to 6 months.
The only intellegent thing I ever heard the lead on AoC say was... WoW was just one of those things like Facebook... you can't really replicate it on purpose.. and its a social phenom...
What WAR should be looking to do is.. do well in the market.
Why would you want anything to kill WoW? More successful games in the market means more people willing to invest in game development so that hopefully we get more decent games... rather than the current trend.
I do hope WAR does really well... many more MMO failures and it will be very hard to secure funding or convince share holders that an MMO is a good idea.
/shrug
from what i have played its a great game. Its definetly a WoW killer for me, I think it wil ldefinetly take out all those pvp people in WoW.
In a perfect world id want WoW and WAR at 5mill , up your face competition = good for customer.
This is a very good point. Many people have put 2-4 years of their life into WoW, they will not just give it up. They may leave for 1 or even 2 years, but they will return. Especially when they have it made in WoW right now. It's so incredibly easy to do ANYTHING in WoW. This may turn off players as they enter WAR. After the thought of having to start from scratch is already a pain. Not being able to kill people easily in WAR because it's skill based and not item based will annoy the people that are used to "pwning" in WoW due to good gear.
Huh? i have played wow for 4 years and SOOO rdy to jump to any decent game that release and WAR is more than only a decent game .
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
I'd rather all the WoW Fanboi's and girls stay in WoW. Simple as that.
wowers would never leave their game (because of blind fanboyism), so no.
I don't get why people that consider themselves MMO players wish ill on any other game. If someone wants to play a game then let them play and stfu. These are GAMES. The more games the better. I wish all games could be successful so we'd get better funded games made by better people brought in because the market is so huge. WAR doesn't need to destroy WOW to be successful. You don't have to be an elitist ass to be an MMO player either. Have fun and stop trying to crap on everyone else.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Actually the technical success of most mmorpgs is exactly what is wrong with mmorpgs in general. They won't fix something that isn't broken, putting in the bare minimum.
It doesn't, but taking away the player base from WoW would definitely increase WARs success exponentially. while forcing the quality of WoW to go up.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Actually the technical success of most mmorpgs is exactly what is wrong with mmorpgs in general. They won't fix something that isn't broken, putting in the bare minimum.
Bland and buggy games fail. The technical success of one isn't a detriment to the others. Boredom with a game doesn't mean it's broken. You can't expect a game to be reinvented with every expansion. If a game company has a successful MMO, then common sense would tell you that they want to keep those customers and while you may not agree with their design choices or content additions, it doesn't mean they are half-assing it. Ultimately it's their purpose to make money and retaining their customers is how they do it, but you can't fix age. People grow tired of a game and want something new.
It doesn't, but taking away the player base from WoW would definitely increase WARs success exponentially. while forcing the quality of WoW to go up.
I agree with the first, but the second is speculation. I would be just as happy if players came from many different games along with new blood to the genre. I'm totally against the "I hate WOW" meme. It turns MMO forums into predictable, tiresome and frivolous bickering.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
I usually have good "hunch" about the games ....
What I think is that WAR , will no question about it be the second ranked p2p MMO
It may even reach 2 million players (or more if its get ported to asia)
It will never be popular as WOW , but thats the dead race.
WOW had over 4 years being the single and only quality MMO , and it has build quite some following.
And it is PVE game , while PVP Warhammer is bit more niche
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
Have you even seen it or played it? lol
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
Sadly, it is.
WoW is hardley the ONLY quality MMO out today, not by a long shot.
Sadly, it is.
Hm I cant agree with you on that. Don't get me wrong, I know WoW is a great game, but I don't think it's alone in it's superior quality. No, I think Eve is definitely something that should be considered as another top mmorpg.